Podcast Summary

TranscendingX, Episode #75: "The Seduction of Fluency with Vince Vawter"
Host: Uri Schneider
Guest: Vince Vawter
Date: June 13, 2022

Overview

In this heartfelt episode, Uri Schneider is joined by celebrated author and journalist Vince Vawter to explore the realities of living with stuttering across a lifetime. Drawing from his acclaimed book Paperboy and eight decades of firsthand experience, Vince reframes stuttering not as a problem to be fixed, but as an integral part of identity and personal growth. Together, they unpack myths about fluency, the misunderstood journey of those who stutter, and the deeper meaning of finding one's voice. The conversation is packed with wisdom for anyone facing communication challenges, perfectionism, or self-doubt—offering practical insights and raw, resonant stories about courage, presence, and self-acceptance.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Vince’s Journey: From Covert Stutterer to Acclaimed Author

• Vince’s Early Years (08:45):

  • Grew up in the 1950s-60s when speech therapy was rudimentary. He was a "poster child for covert stuttering," doing anything to hide it, including painful coping techniques (like jamming a thumbtack into his hand at school [09:30]).
  • Family and social moments (e.g., difficulty ordering food at restaurants) often led to embarrassment but are now powerful stories in Paperboy.

• Professional Life and Acceptance (13:40, 16:54):

  • Initially pursued professional baseball, believing speech wasn’t necessary for success—until a fastball and self-awareness redirected him to journalism (11:25).
  • Writing became his new identity, though he soon realized reporting required as much speaking as writing.
  • Avoided public speaking until age 45, using clever workarounds and humor to mask his discomfort (16:54).

• Turning Point in Public Speaking (17:41):

  • At his first civic club speech, a sleeping audience member spurred a breakthrough: “I’m dying a thousand deaths up here, and this guy could care less…”
    → Realized the audience cared less than he thought, which helped him shift focus away from his stutter.

2. Redefining Success: The Seduction and Cruelty of Fluency

• On Fluency and Finding One’s Voice (22:44):

  • “My definition of fluency is if I can say anything I want to say anytime I want to say it, at that point, I'm fluent… The rest is just semantics.” — Vince [26:31]
  • The pursuit of perfect fluency is “a cruel mistress” that can overshadow the real goal: self-expression.

• Three Manifesto Points (22:44):

  1. Stuttering is not cured, it’s overcome.
     • Stuttering isn’t something to “solve” or “fix” but to transcend by finding confidence and self-acceptance.
  2. Stuttering is what we do when we try not to stutter.
     • The fight for fluency itself often drives more stuttering—a paradox at the heart of covert behaviors.
  3. Fluency is overrated.
     • Even TV news anchors (the supposed model of “fluent” speech) aren’t 100% fluent; fluency is about freedom to speak, not perfection.

• Stuttering’s Hidden Gifts (42:28):

  • Stuttering brings empathy and creativity (“I try to make sure the word I have substituted for is a more interesting word. So I like to think I have a pretty good vocabulary…” — Vince, 43:03)
  • Encourages more meaningful listening and deeper connection with others’ struggles.

3. Shifting the Therapeutic Lens: Person-Centered, Not Problem-Focused

• Therapy Then and Now (29:54, 35:08):

  • Early therapy was mechanical, focusing only on “fixing” speech, failing to address the emotional journey.
  • Today, holistic, person-centered approaches are gaining ground. “Treat people, not problems.” — Uri, 35:44

• The Importance of Support (30:31, 53:03):

  • “If you are on a journey, it's always a lot more fun to travel with somebody. And that person...should be your speech pathologist. They are going to help you get where you want to go.” — Vince, 30:31
  • Encourages young people to build a full support caravan—friends, mentors, professionals.

4. Overcoming, Not Curing: Language, Identity, and Inclusion

• Overcome vs. Cure—What the Words Mean (37:41):

  • Vince clarifies: “If I have that confidence to throw myself out there and to speak my truth, I have overcome my stutter. I have not cured my stutter.” [37:41]
  • Language matters—words like “overcome” can be misunderstood; intent and context are key.

• Empowering Self-Definition (27:50, 55:15):

  • Encourages people to center agency, choose their own priorities, and embrace stuttering as one part of their larger identity.

5. The Emotional Reality—For Young People and Adults

• The Young Stutterer’s Inner World (00:00, 48:29):

  • “I think they think two things: I just want to talk like my friends… and then comes this massive confusion: I seem smart, I seem liked… what’s the matter with me? The answer is, there’s nothing wrong with you. You just need to be trying to find your voice.” — Vince, 00:00
  • Reflects on feelings of fear, confusion, and using stuttering as a crutch—while eventually growing toward acceptance and pride (48:29).

• The Power of Narrative (55:32):

  • Shares a moving story of a middle school student asking if he would have written his book without stuttering:
    “You are so proud of this book that you are glad you are a person who stutters.”
    “I am glad I’m a person who stutters. It made me who I am.” — Vince, 55:32

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On chasing fluency:
  “Fluency can be a cruel mistress.” — Vince, 13:40

• On finding your voice:
  “I caution [young people] in thinking, ‘I’ve got to stop stuttering.’ I think what you need to concentrate on is finding your voice. And you will find it.” — Vince, 00:00

• On redefining fluency:
  “If I can say anything I want to say anytime I want to say it, at that point, I'm fluent… The rest is just semantics.” — Vince, 26:31

• On support:
  “It’s always a lot more fun to travel with somebody. And that person you travel with should be your speech pathologist.” — Vince, 30:31

• On empathy & stuttering:
  “I think that people who stutter, we may have more empathy for other people… we have an empathy for the other person because we know… they have doubts and challenges.” — Vince, 43:03

• On pride and gratitude:
  “If I were given the choice at five years old—nah, I don’t want to stutter. If I’m given the choice at 75 years old, I’m glad I stuttered. It made me a stronger person. It made me who I am.” — Vince, 57:13

Important Timestamps

• Life pre-Paperboy, covert stuttering: 08:45 - 13:40
• First public speech & breakthrough: 16:54 - 21:11
• The Stuttering Manifesto (Three Points): 22:44 - 27:45
• Therapy approaches, person-centered care: 29:54 - 37:41
• Empathy & creative coping (word substitution): 42:28 - 43:03
• Three words describing stuttering (then & now): 42:23, 48:29
• Pivotal school assembly story (pride in difference): 55:32

Final Takeaways

• Stuttering is “overcome,” not “cured”—and that means claiming your right to speak and live fully, not chasing impossible perfection.
• Don’t do the journey alone—community and professional support matter.
• Stuttering, like any adversity, can shape you into a more empathetic, creative, and resilient person—if you lean in and own your story.
• For young people: your challenge is not to “fix” yourself, but to find and amplify your unique voice.
• Paperboy and Vince’s advocacy make space for authenticity, diversity, and hope for all who struggle with communication.

“I am glad I’m a person who stutters. It made me who I am.” — Vince Vawter [57:13]