B (4:15)

Good morning, Yuri. Yeah, it is early. It's really awesome. I'm not a morning person normally, so this has been a wonderful exercise in getting to bed early. I made a point last night after the gym to go to bed by 10:30 and it worked. I was very proud of myself. So I am thrilled to be here and to, as you said, have this chat dealing with various issues.

A (4:46)

Side Comment in parentheses if you're interested in figuring out how to hack the early morning wake up, it starts with what time you go to bed. Much easier to wake up in the morning when you've had a good night's sleep and gone to bed a little earlier than going to sleep the same time and thinking you're going to wake up much earlier. Not a good plan?

B (5:03)

No.

A (5:05)

I got to ask you, what's one thing that you'd like people to know that's not in the bio? It's a pretty comprehensive bio, but what's something that isn't there that you feel is something you're proud of, something you're excited by and would love to share?

B (5:19)

Wow. There's a lot I could say, but really the proudest thing, given what I'm doing right now and given what what the whole book is about, being fixed and overcoming things I thought I needed to fix. I'm really proud that I've actually ended up at this point to be able to talk and share. There's a part of of me on bad days that would think all of the choices I've made have not been the best. And on mornings like this, where I have the opportunity to actually talk and share and be open and be of service to other people. It's really a, it's, it's a, it's an amazing feeling. And it's not about me, it's about being of service. And I've heard that a lot over the years and I thought it was just, oh yeah, that's very easy for some rich, famous person, you know, to be of service, you know, and very, very much being honest. But I'm beginning to really see and feel being of service to other people. So I'm very, very proud of myself and of the journey to be here and to be of service, if all of that makes sense.

A (6:35)

That resonates with when we met just a few weeks ago, courtesy of the World Stuttering Network. And I think we talked about that very point. The idea of what we do is it serving ourselves and where that takes us and the pressures we feel and the drive that drives us. One more drive versus waking up to be of service to others and feel ourselves being a vehicle of bringing light and passing on something that others can benefit from what we've gone through. So thank you. Certainly. That's what got me out of bed. If it was up to me, I would have rolled over.

B (7:13)

So would I.

A (7:13)

Listen, there's one elephant in the room for all the topics that you've uncovered and been transparent about. You don't sound like you're from Vancouver. Like that's not a Vancouver accent.

B (7:25)

I know, I know. I've got many dialect coaches who would be in tears right now. Yeah. So obviously Dublin is my home. So I am Irish. I've been living in Vancouver now. This is year 11. So as you said in the introduction, I came over here to, to actually go to acting school. I was, I, I am a huge science fiction fan and at the time they, they were shooting a lot of sci fi shows here and you know, I had a. I had this amazing dream of getting to work on Star Stargate S SG1 and you know, touch the gate and that's why I came over here. But yes, I still sound vaguely Irish. It's. I mean, I won't.

A (8:20)

Absolutely. And isn't that funny, right? The self perception. I don't know what you make of it and what kind of conscientiousness do you have about it. But they say, you know, people hear British people speak and they immediately think they have a higher iq. I don't know what they think when they hear our accents, but I think your accent is, is awesome. And I don't think I could pull it off unless I pulled a Daniel Day Lewis method acting move.

B (8:46)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that'd be probably challenging for many of us. Daniel Day Lewis's. Yeah, that's a high bar. High bar.

A (8:58)

We'll take it. So we could start in so many places. But I just had this conversation with another guest and I thought I would go here. And I think your game for it, especially improv. This is like perfect. I meet young people who stutter often. I meet parents of young kids. I meet teens. I meet adults. And I often like to ask the following question. I'm going to say a word and you just tell me the first word that comes to mind. So ice cream.

B (9:24)

Vanilla beach. Sand.

A (9:29)

Awesome. So nothing judgmental there, right? It was just descriptions. They either nouns or adjectives that are descriptive. So let's try the same thing. What are like three words today that you think of when I say the word Stuttering.

B (9:47)

Fear. Exhaustion. Lost. As in feeling lost.

A (9:57)

Those are the present day. Present day associations that came to mind. Or those are from younger years.

B (10:03)

As I'm sitting here right at the moment, those are the words that come to mind. It's certainly not as. Not as charged, not as out of control and not. Not on the surface as much as it would have been in the past. As a child, even talking to you now, or even as a teenager, I'd have been sweating buckets. So it's not on the surface, but it is still there. Or that's at least what I feel still, rightly or wrongly.

A (10:34)

So junior high school, if you could transport yourself and this will segue into the memoir, maybe junior high school. What might have been as you think back, or transport yourself there, science fiction style.

B (10:48)

Yeah. Trying to get by. Trying to get through every day, get through every hour. I was bullied to a certain extent in school, so it was always every day. Am I safe? Am I going to be bullied today? Will the teacher ask me to read out today? Have I put on the right clothes today? I don't look too gay. And so there. I mean, there wouldn't have been as much as much fear. There was much more effort in trying to get by looking at everyone else. What is everyone else doing? Copy them, keep your head down and don't, for the love of God, get noticed.

A (11:36)

And this was in Dublin.

B (11:37)

Yep. Yeah.

A (11:39)

But kids in Vancouver, New York, Israel, Italy, Japan, Africa. It's a universal experience and I think bringing light to it and also reflecting and transporting ourselves to the earlier version of Robert, to today's version of Robert, I think is also a celebration for you, celebration for us, and a celebration for anybody who's in a. In a certain place and they can't figure out how it's ever going to change and just to kind of plant that seed of hope. So maybe you could share with us, like, the journey you've been on several. And the tracks crisscross and kind of come together. But the memoir, what was the tipping point that kind of told you to put this down on paper and share.

B (12:26)

It with the world? Yeah, that's one of the first things people ask me why or how did I start writing a book? So, as you mentioned, going in. So I spent a lot of my younger years trying to be fixed, trying to fix having a stutter, trying to fix being gay, working very, very hard. So when I first went on to speech therapy, it was really amazing. I learned tools and techniques, and that led me onto Toastmasters. And I discovered I really liked speaking in front of a crowd, which is crazy, given everything. That then led to acting school. And there was a sort of element of trying to hide I was still in the closet and acting, putting on other roles, trying to be someone else, or learning to feel, to be someone else. So how does it feel to be a science fiction hero who's, you know, flying on a spaceship rather than being little gay, stuttering Rob? So there was a sort of element there of running from who I actually was, but also having fun. And I could never. And I still haven't figured that out fully. I still can't say where I land on that because it changes from day to day. But I tried to fix myself. I tried to be someone else. At the age of 35, I was at home. There was a family wedding. I was single, broke, lost. And there was a suicide attempt in my father's race car, which is an E30 M3 sport evolution. And my father had owned this car for many years, and he had made the promise that he would keep the car for when I became a man, when I was man enough to own the car and take the car now, that meant having money, that meant having a job path. It. It meant being able to do all of that. And at 35, after working hard, going on speech therapy, doing the Toastmasters, you know, taking a risk, jumping on a plane, flying over to Vancouver, following my dream, I was left in the car. And it was. It, you know, it was a low point. Was I seriously looking at trying to kill. Kill myself? If I was really serious about it, I could have made a better effort of it because as you will read in the book, obviously I'm still here. And I can always actually remember sitting in the car crying, thinking, oh, my God, I can't even kill myself effectively. And that's actually where the book began, because I was sitting there in the car in an empty hangar, fumes still wafting around, and I was literally thinking, oh, my God, where do I go from here? I literally thought, I have no idea how to pick up any of these pieces. So, I mean, obviously went and got professional help, which I think is the first thing to actually say, not to make light of even a failed suicide attempt is a suicide attempt and is some kind of cry for help. So I did have the good sense to go and get help. But I also began writing. I began thinking, okay, if I can begin writing, go back to the very beginning and write and figure out where everything has gone wrong and try to fix it. And that's actually where the book actually began. I didn't ever see myself as an author, as a writer, and as I began to work on it and build on it, and over three or four years, that personal journal became a rough book draft. And that's how it began.

A (16:21)

Wow. Were there. Was it like a one and done? It's hard to picture the movement from the episode in the car to holding your book in your hands. Was that, you know, what was that decision like? And was it just a commitment and it was a straight line from there, or it was like waffling through?

B (16:46)

Anyone who's. Who's ever tried to write a book probably knows it's a very hard thing to finish. Starting a book is very easy. You're all riled up and you have goals to write a thousand words every day, and then you suddenly hit points where you get stuck. So it was certainly up and down, up and down. I can't say how many versions of the book went back and forth, back and forth, you know, and taking it back towards the very end of the process. Tidewater Press are the people who picked up the book. And I'd been working with someone on their staff for about two or three, three years working on the book back and forth. But it was really towards the very end where I thought I had everything finished and I then had to take it back again. And it was just the point of like, I'm just like, what else can I say? What else do I need to put into this that hasn't been said? So it really, really was a case of having I One of. One of the things I've learned about myself, for better or worse, I find quitting very, very hard. And given the book, given what it's about, on a very personal note, it's. It's essentially me. Everything that I am, everything that I was, everything that I thought was in the book, it's a very deep book. I've shared everything. So it's very open. And so it meant that much that when I. When I actually was finishing it and I really did want. Want to just hand it in and go, it's good. It's good enough. I just had to sit myself down, take a couple of breaths and look at it and go, is there anything else. Is there anything that I've learned at this point at the end of the journey that adds to it? And it actually did. Adding the ending was the hardest part. And so taking the book back and having to end it, because how does someone end a book like this? And so that was like, okay. And now I can say, you know, now it's finished. It, you know, ended at the point that I, as the actual. I mean, author and the person on the journey, I'm very happy to, you know, sort of end it at the point that it did end. And it felt amazing. But it was years. It was years. Six or seven years, I think, last year. Like, I. Well, no, sorry, not six. Six or seven. I'd say probably five, because I was 35 when I tried to commit suicide. And then the book launched about five years later. Yeah. So, yeah, it was about that timeframe.

A (19:38)

Wow. You poured so much of yourself and your story and openness into the book. What's been the chapter or the episode in the book that has gotten the most feedback? Sometimes there's a disconnect or a surprise between what the artist intends or finds most meaningful and most valuable as compared to what the world sees in this piece. So what have you heard from people as resonating with them?

B (20:06)

It really. I mean, it varies. It really varies. Like, people, I mean, like, it. Like, they're so. There's so many points I could point to, you know, growing up, talking about being gay in school and having a stutter 25, 30 years ago is a little bit like a blast from the past. So I think older people who read the book really get and sense that because we didn't have any phones or any social media or any sort of social groups, and getting help back then would have been a lot harder. You would have gone through official channels. People who are car fans love the Fact that I, you know, am I a geek? I'm a huge, massive geek. Cars, science fiction, I will spaz out. I mean, I'll, you know, sort of stop and look at a. I mean, a car. And I'll stop and just stare. And people go, what, what am I? What am I staring at? So any car fans love the fact that given, given my father's race, race car, the M3 is such a part of the book. There's a like, sort of real bond there with it. And people, I mean, laugh and go, well, it's only, only a car. And car people get that younger. I think people like when I talk, talk about the whole coming out process and coming out at 32. So I myself had to go, go through all of these crazy learning phases as a grown ass man. And there's one part in the book where I'm sort of dating my, you know, very first boy boyfriend and there's a whole bed sheet story. And my poor mother had to take me hand in hand and be given the whole talk. And I was a grown man and it's like, mom, I don't have to have the talk. And she sat there and goes, you're having the talk as a grown man. So that, I mean, sort of, sort of too, shines a light on us, you know, doing it later and not being able to skip any of those steps, which is funny. As a sort of adult, you would think, oh, well, I can kind of skip all of, all of these, you know, sort of silly phases. And no, no, I had to go, go through all of them. And it's really great because it just means I can put it in the book and it can help someone who's maybe been in the same situation. It's humbling, to say the least, to be of service.

A (22:39)

So courageous. I mean, just to say the obvious, we all have, we all have things, we all have mountains we climb. But very few of us have the courage to share the unfinished stories and imperfect journeys. And I think it's a real masterclass and courage and service to share the way you have.

B (23:02)

Thank you.

A (23:05)

Can you share a little bit about the similarities and maybe nuances of difference in the coming out experience as compared to coming out with your sexuality and coming out with your stutter? Obviously, the language can be very similar. There are a lot of similarities and then there are, of course, nuances of difference and I think it's beneficial to shed light on both sides.

B (23:32)

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great thing to ask and it's one of the things I've been talking about too, because people think it's not the same thing because they, I mean, are two, on the surface, separate things. I think the kind of first thing to say, having a stutter, even for myself now, people might be listening to me and say, I don't hear him stutter. I'm a covert stutter, so I can hide it pretty effectively. And that was a good thing and a bad thing because it meant I could get by most times. But if I was stressed or asked me to use the telephone, I will stutter and block and learning tools and everything to deal with having a stutter. As a covert stutterer, I still feel the urge to hide it, which, you know, at this point isn't as helpful as it could be. There's a line of thought where you should show your stutter and not be triggered by it. So the first thing I'd say about having a stutter is it's very hard to hide. Being gay and the whole sexuality, it was easier to hide it or to at least try and hide it. As I said earlier, like in, in this, in the school setting and even growing, growing up in university and a young adult, I put a lot of effort into hiding it. So, you know, I would never look at guys. I would be very careful about how I sat, what I said, what sort of clothes I would put on. And it was a thing that I could hide or I tried to hide. And I've got friends who said no. It was very obvious. And even when I did the coming out, everybody had guessed and I was quite upset by it because I'd said if I put so much effort into hiding and everybody knew. So that's the first thing I'd say. Having a stutter is harder to hide. Being gay was easier to hide on the surface. Where they are very similar is in the mindset, is in that whole thing of fear, hiding and getting by. So if it's a speaking situation, it's a case of just say anything as long as I don't stutter. When it comes to being gay, it's do anything that is not looking gay. So there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of hiding, there's a huge amount of mental thought and pressure. And the coming, coming, coming out felt very similar to each, to each other on a personal level. For myself, on some level, being gay felt more. I mean, I, you know, I'm sort of hesitant to say natural, but it felt more sort of natural at my core. This was who I Obviously was. And there wasn't anything I was going to do to change it, but the problem process of coming out felt very much the same thing. So as someone who has a stutter, I was taught to make disclosures where you disclose to someone. My name is Robert. I'm working on my stutter. Thank you for listening to me kind of thing. It's a very simple exercise, but the amount of courage it takes to open up to someone and say, I have a stutter. And I'm working on my speech, huge. Because I had learned to hide it for so many years. It was the last thing I would say. And 99% of the time, people are very, very happy, very accepting of that. Coming out as gay felt the very same. So when I came, came, came out to my mom and dad first, I was flying home from acting school in Vancouver, and I'd made the choice. I had come out in acting school, so a little bit of a cliche, if nothing else, you know, And I was flying home and I had made a promise that I would tell the people closest to me face to face. And it felt the very same. You know, kind of build it up and you hope and pray everything will be fine. You know, I kind of tried to think what will happen if it's not fine? You know, and then you take a deep breath. Mom, dad, I'm, you know, gay Dad, I mean, cried, you know, asked me why I had suffered for so, so, so many years. Mom had crossed her arms and gone, yeah, you know, well, you, you know, didn't ever bring any girls home. Robert. So it was obvious. And I'm like, thank you. But it felt the same, and it feels the same. And I think that's one of, one of the things people walk over a little bit every time. Even now when I tell someone that I have a stutter or I tell someone that I'm gay. Yes, I have a book. Yes, it's all over my social media. People who would know me probably know that. But every time I do it, I still feel that. I still feel that little. Take a pause, take a breath. Let's take stock. Everything will be fine. And it, I mean, yes, it gets easier, but it's. But it's, but it, but it's still there. It's still there. There's still, I mean, echoes, ripples. And I don't think that will ever change. And I don't think I wanted to, because if it, if it did become very easy, I could very easily become, oh, yeah, you know, Shrug. I'm Gay, I have a stutter and it then kind of becomes okay. Is he making fun of it or, you know, does he actually mean it? So the fact that there are still echoes, I think is just a part of who, who I, who I was, who I am and who I will be.

A (29:14)

That piqued my interest. What are the echoes? What are the voices of the echoes?

B (29:18)

Just the kind of echo of, okay, yeah, I've kind of felt, felt, felt this in, in, in the past. So, you know, it's the sort of slight sort of nervousness, slight kind of tingle of, oh, okay, someone doesn't actually know. I, you know, here's an opportunity to open up and there's, and there's still a kind of, you know, sort of, I mean, I'm just going to say tingle, even though that might sound a bit odd, but that's how it actually occurs to me. And it's like, oh, how, how, how is this person going to deal with it? Are they going to be okay? Will I have to expose a little bit more? And there's, and there's also a slight, I suppose a tinge of fear having to just take a pause, take a breath and go, okay, okay, this, this is fine. I've been, been here before. This is a great opportunity to just stay present.

A (30:11)

Such power in making choices and then choosing again and again.

B (30:18)

To be fair. Anyone listening? This is a good day. There are days where I, you know, I just cup my head and go, oh my God. So I have to do it again. I have to tell.

A (30:30)

Let's go there, Robert. Let's lean right into that. Yeah, I'm right with you. Yesterday was an extraordinarily exhausting, low energy, kind of bleaky kind of day for me. One of the things, we'll come back to a question I had market, but specifically mental health, specifically men's mental health. And like what you've put in place, discovered self care. What do you do to kind of either bounce back, stay strong, or just make sure you do Good for you, following what you've been through, which is really, you know, getting to some really low, dark places.

B (31:10)

Yeah, well, men, men I think, have a, have a harder time of it. Men are sort of told to man, to man up and to be strong, you know, and if I've done it once, I've done it 20 times, this should be a piece of cake. And as a man, I think people think, well, men should be able to. And I think men get a rough time. Mental health and how to deal with all of this has come from the book. It's come from the years of having to write the book and even finishing the book. I've learned to soften things and to really have to soften. I mean, I. In the past, if I had a bad speech day, I'd go off the rails, you know, how am I stuttering? I've put in the work, I've got my tools. This isn't fair. Why am I still stuttering? Why haven't I worked on Stargate, you know, for God? And I mean, there was huge anger, anger, rage. Actually, it wasn't anger, it was just rage. And it wasn't out at other people, it was in at me. I'd worked this hard. I had to work harder, really get on and work harder. And I was, I was brutal. Brutal to, to myself. Even the suicide attempt, laughing. Ha. I, you know, still, you know, I wasn't able to kill. Kill myself effectively. I'm a pathetic excuse of a man. I said that to myself. And it's like, oh, my God. And one of, one of the things. And I mean, this, you know, this is just. I mean, life, men, boys, I don't think are really. Ever thought how to be their own best friend. And that's the biggest thing I've taken from this whole journey. Because even now, it's, I mean, hard. I have bad, hard days. So now to answer what you've asked me, if it's a really bad, like, day and there's anger there, hitting the gym is the first thing I'd do physical exercise. Running it off, lifting heavy weights, just getting out in the gym, getting out of. Out of my head. If I'm say, I mean working and I'm having a bad speech day or I mean, teaching and my speech is not the best and I'm finding it tired, I will, you know, at the break, go make a cup of tea, sit down and ask myself, is there anything I can do? How can I help me in the next hour? How can I get me through the next few hours and what are the things I can do? And it's really that mindfulness of just taking a pause, asking, what can I do for me? I can buy like, muffin, you know, if I've had a bad speech day, I can buy a nice, I mean, muffin, have a cup of tea and just, I mean, say there, thank you for being on my own side. And then I would go and hit the gym because I have to look ripped as well, you know, so it's then like, it's like, okay, Great. So we've had the muffin taken care of ourselves, exercised. Yay.

A (34:08)

Sounds like a spin cycle.

B (34:10)

It is. It is, but it's. But it's. Again, it's. It's. It's really been the biggest shift because I. And I mean, this is a fairly new thing. You know, what. What can I do to take care of myself? And it's a much softer way of being. And it's not a. You know, as a man. It isn't necessarily. Necessarily a man's way of being. It's, you know, softer and being. Being sort of able to actually have, but have. I mean, both. I find help. So if it's in. In the gym and it's heavy weights, it's a physical grunting, you know, feeling it, and then the much softer. Thank you. Thank you for. For you know, sort of taking care of. I mean, us. Me. Thank you for asking me, is there anything I can do to help me. And it's not being narcissistic. People go, oh, well, isn't. I mean, that being a. Being a total narcissist? And I'm just like, my God, it's the exact opposite of being a narcissist. If I was a narcissist, I think I'm, you know, I'm hot stuff. I'd think my speech is everyone else's fault. I'd think that all of these hot men don't fancy me, and it's their loss. I'm like, it's not narcissism. And that's one of the things people ask me. And I get a little bit triggered by it, because it's a case of. No, it's the exact opposite. And for boys and for men who don't know how to talk about it, who don't know how to reach out about it, and they hit drugs and they hit drink, and they do stupid things because they've been thought as a man. They aren't meant to, or they aren't even allowed to feel this. You know, it's just. I mean, you know, going back to the whole suicide side of it, there, there, you know, having echoes, I can feel it still. When I have bad days, I can feel that kind of thought. I wish I'd left the engine running. And it's like, wow, okay, that's kind of a little bit scary. But I do understand it, because if I wasn't here, I wouldn't have to deal with it. I wouldn't have to feel the pain. I wouldn't have to de. Learn what it actually is to be a strong man. And, and I, and I've seen and I've spoken to other guys and they're shocked and like, really, it isn't just me. It's like, no, it really isn't. And again, you, I think, said it. Yuri. Shining a light on us is such a vital thing. Because people, People, I mean, I've learned even though I may have a stutter and even though I might be gay, I've got a lot more in common with, you know, other humans than I, than, Than I, Than I ever thought. We all feel nervousness. We all get nervous when we're sharing personal things. So whether it's you're gay or you have a. I mean, stutter, or, you know, you, you, you have some other issue. Everyone has their crosses. And that's the other thing that we aren't really. That we aren't really talking about now. It's become much, much more about, well, I'm X and you are Y, as opposed to. No, we are this. And you have this aspect, I have this aspect, but we are more, more alike. And I think that's really, really missing. And in the men's health side of things, certainly, like, you know, having men coming together in groups as men and doing men things, if that's in the gym, sports, fixing a car, you know, having a couple of beers. That's, you know, what men do. And then letting them talk, they, you know, aren't going to necessarily sit in a circle and share their inner feelings because they haven't been taught how to or if they're even allowed to. And even if they could, would they. Whereas if you're fixing a V8 engine, stripping it down, someone might say, oh, yeah. So, hey, listen, I've been feeling this because that's how men, I mean, work men are men and, you know, again, biased as a gay man on a certain level. They are very simple. You know, food, exercise. Let's just keep it simple and let's open it up and, you know, it's. It's just nice to kind of see, you know. Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there. But anyway. Oh.

A (38:37)

I was, I was, I was drinking it all in and I was thinking how to say what I want to say. I'll just say the short version. I'm so glad you're here.

B (38:47)

Thank you. I just get to talk. I love it.

A (38:52)

Not just. Not just here right now. I'm so glad you're here. Yeah, the passion, passion and the advocacy and the openness. Is a treasure. It's like a diamond. So glad you're here. When I said earlier about the spin cycle, I guess I was. I was just reflecting and focusing for myself as well. But I was, I was. First of all, what's your go to muffin? Just to lighten the conversation here. What's the go to muffin? If you had a choice. Corn, carrot, bran, where you got chocolate.

B (39:29)

Triple chocolate, carrot, Believe it or not, I think. Yeah.

A (39:33)

Straight up or toasted with butter.

B (39:35)

Straight up.

A (39:37)

Yeah. Try corn muffin, toasted with butter. I don't think it's as big a thing outside of New York. I don't know.

B (39:41)

But corn. Okay.

A (39:43)

Cornmo fin, toasted with butter. It's a few extra minutes in the gym, but totally okay. But that was the spin cycle. See, like, so have something to eat, have a cup of tea. And then. And then that voice wakes up, right? You're like trying to come back from one thing and then the voice comes, oh, now you've done it again. Now you go work it off. Because you got to look good. The idea that those of us that have that voice, you don't beat the voice. You dance with it, you know, and you go through the spin cycle with it. So as long as you have some routines and some habits and as you said, Robert, like even today, some of the associations with some of these things, some of what you called. What'd you call it? Tinkle. And I was thinking of a flutter. Yeah, flutter, right. Whatever it is.

B (40:31)

Yeah.

A (40:31)

It's like that familiar. It's always there to remind you, like, you're not. You're not Superman. You're not. Not human. You're human. It's that little, little pull. So, yeah, so I got lifting, running muffins I was going to add to for my list. I always check my radar. I'm like hydration fuel, good food, sleep, open space. Like, take a walk outside, just get some fresh air. And the best is like open, green space. Space or the beach. Yeah, for me, those are major, like self care. Both ongoing, proactively, and then also, as you said, like if you're feeling flooded or tanked, you know, for me, I try to catch myself and I'm like, okay, what is. What's going to get me stronger? And as you said, it's not. It's not about me. It's about me getting to be the best version of me so that I can do me and bring that to the people that I care about and love and want to give to most beautiful man improv. Why? What's the value? Why in the world like act. As you said, the irony of leaving acting school to fly home. To be real, to be open, to be yourself. What's the role of improv to help people who stutter?

B (41:52)

For me, I would say it's getting, getting out of their head. Head. Getting. Getting out of the mindset that because I have a stutter there are certain things that I cannot do well or that I will find harder than any fluent speaker. It's a way of thinking in, in. In the moment. It's a way of keeping it real and for myself on a personal level. It's really getting to know, know to getting to know yourself very well and not fill, filtering. Because if you're doing things in the moment, you haven't got time to think about it. It's just out there. And for someone who has a stutter or for someone who's gay or someone who is hiding, we, you know, sort of edit before we ever open our mouths. And most of all, it's fun. It's fun to actually play. As grown ass adults, we are all taught to be super, super, you know, honest, serious, professional, never let the mask slip. And you're then playing this game and you feel literally like you're seven years old again. And it's like, oh my God. People are like kids. Adults are just big kids. And when they are given a safe space to actually begin to play in that area, it again opens up this like whole sort of note flavor that they mightn't have had. And life. As I get older, it's about having all of these kinds of, of, I mean, flavors to kind of dance with and to actually bring in any given given situation. So for all of those reasons, that's why.

A (43:29)

So how has this, has this group or this iteration evolved and how can people check it out and get involved if they're interested?

B (43:36)

Yeah, so what it's called, it's. It's an, it's an acting course that I mean obviously brings improv to people who stutter. And now because I feel it's a little bit of a pitch, I may stutter a little bit. That's curious. But listen. Thank you. Yeah, so it's a course called the, the on the Unblockables. It's ran in association with Tightrope Theater, which is an improv theater here in Van Vancouver. And how it, how it all happened, it was a very random forming. I had, I had asked a speech. Okay, I'll take a break. A breath. Slaughter. Slaughter. So I had asked a local speech.

A (44:24)

It actually. It adds intimacy and openness and idea to the fact that you're the best person to be doing an improv group. People who stutter. Because otherwise it almost sounds like, oh, you got this all figured out.

B (44:38)

Yeah. No, not. God, no. Anyone watching this. I do not have it all figured out. That's the first thing.

A (44:43)

Neither do I.

B (44:45)

No, no, no one has it figured out.

A (44:46)

My dad. My dad likes to say that's why it's called Private Practice, because we keep.

B (44:50)

Practicing and it's all. Yeah, private. But yeah, no. So how it. How it actually all came to be, I had. I had asked a local speech therapist here called Wendy. Wendy. Wendy Duke, who is the. The director of. Of Columbia Speech and Language Services to a book. Book event. I was thinking that it'd be great to have a speech therapist come to one of my book events because I talk about having a stutter. And I'd reached. Reached out. She had answered, she had came. We had never met before. We, you know, talked for an hour, an hour and a half, shook, shook hands, parted ways. And I, you know, didn't think I would ever hear from her after that. And then about then, about a year and a half, I get a random text. Wendy says, robert, hi, listen, I've actually met a guy here who. Who has a theater school. He runs. Runs courses based on mental health. So Dan, who is. Who is the co founder and owns the actual or is co owner of the theater group, does courses for mental health people who've got Parkinson's, and he brings those improv skills to people who've got Parkinson's. And Wendy said, I thought, you know, it'd be great to have a similar course for people who have a stutter. Would you. Would you like to come on board? And so we, you know, we, I mean, met, talked on the first call. Kind of like, I'm here. I got a little bit nervous. I felt a large flutter because I've got Wendy, who's, you know, who owns her very own speech clinic here, and she's got staff under her and decades worth of experience. And Dan and I. And I love sharing this Dan, who's, I mean, married to a, you know, brain. Brain surgeon and has a dog that has a bigger social media following than I've got. And he's amazing, and he makes it look easy. And I'm kind of stuck in the middle going, what am I doing here? And it's like, well, I'm actually the one who has the actor training skills, who knows what the games are. And I'm also the person who has a stutter, who knows what the speech therapy is and how they interlink. And we've been running courses. Our last course was early in the year and we have another course beginning in the fall. We are at the moment looking at getting funding for it because this is the first sort of year and we're just figuring it out. And we've had opportunities to also share it on stuttering platforms as well. And it's really been amazing on a personal note for myself to actually be sort of part of this. And it's a team effort. That's what I really love about it. It's a team effort. So on certain days Dan might actually take the lead, Wendy takes the lead, in other words ways and then I can take the lead when it comes to, you know, stuttering side of things. And it's, it's the first time in my life I've been very much a lone wolf and someone even, you know, anyone who writes a book probably knows it's a, you know, a very personal exercise or even in the gym. I go, go to the gym alone. So I've been very much a lone wolf. And learning how to work as, as a team and having a team and working as a team, it's been great.

A (48:27)

The lone wolf. The irony is I, I go running alone and then I once had a run in with a wild dog. I don't was a dog or a wolf. It was a lone wolf when I saw it. But then all of a sudden the rest of the pack showed up. Yeah, it's, it's a whole story. But you were not that lone wolf that attacked me on the run. Yeah, but, but yeah, there's this saying that I'm fond of inspired by Yonatan Razel. It's an African proverb or something. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

B (49:05)

Yeah.

A (49:07)

So I'm happy for you to have this team and I'm sure it's gonna go far. I just want to reiterate. So happy you're here. Just so much value and passion. I get feedback about different episodes and there's one episode, one other episode that deals very. There are many and we're actually cataloging them. And a shout out to Jess Bauman in Vancouver. Jesse Barclay, also a shout out to Jess Bauman. Jess Bauman is in Manhattan and moving out of the city. But Jessica Barclay, who has been, was our introduction here and she's been helping us with The Toolbox Transcending toolbox. We've collected and cataloged the Internet of stuttering into a searchable toolbox for people who stutter and for speech language pathologists to be able to pull out age appropriate and theme related and media related tools. And so among the tools would be these podcast episodes and we tagged them with themes like this one would be creativity, mental wellness, inclusion, et cetera. And so one of the episodes that I got feedback about Matthew Brianuca tells the story of being in psychoanalysis for years and hoping that sorting some of that stuff out was somehow going to help with the stuttering. And then at some point realizing, I need something in addition or something else. And he ends up on a journey of speech therapy and he talks about it feeling like he went from one side of the tracks to the other side of the tracks. And I know that this episode, Robert, is going to be that kind of resource for people, just like Matthew's episode has been for so many people. So I just want to thank you for being here and for sharing and we could certainly carry on, but what would be your one, if you could put up, you know, a new billboard in Hollywood or some poster in Vancouver, what would it say? What would be your message for the world to hear from Robert today?

B (51:26)

You are enough. You are enough. Because I'm thinking now, oh, I just stood on a podcast, oh, did I pitch the course well enough? Will they be able to find the course? And it's like, oh my God, it's like people Google your part. You are enough. So no, it really is. That's, that's what I would put up. And I think when, you know, people say it, people say it and it can be very easy to say, but when it actually lands and, and I think actually Dan, on, on, on one of our courses actually mentions that, like people being told, you are enough. And then the pause, let it settle and you can see, I mean, people's face change because when it lands and they actually get to get, get the emotion and feel it, that, wow, am I enough? Yes, yes, you are. That's really profound for all of us. For all of us.

A (52:29)

I'm enough. You're enough. We're enough. And you pitched it more than well enough. But for anyone that didn't catch it, I'll just reiterate if you want to read Robert's book. Book, it's called Oops, I'm pointing to the wrong thing. Hold on. The book is called Just One More the True Story of a Stuttering Homosexual and His Race car. And the improv group is called the Unblockables. And I'll even read out the Internet web URL so that Robert knows that that was covered.

B (53:04)

Thank you.

A (53:05)

It's under Tightrope theater spelled the British way. Theater.com improv4stuttering and I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of Robert. I want to thank you for the generosity of your time and the sharing and openness. And if you're interested, you know where to find us@transcendingx.com join the community. Check out the resources and of course, all these episodes. Thanks so much, everybody.

B (53:33)

Absolutely. Yuri, thank you very, very much.

A (53:36)

Thank you.

B (53:38)

Have a good day.

C (53:40)

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you want more, check out transcendingx.com podcast. Sign up for our email. You'll get exclusive clips, invites to events and access to join our community and more.

B (53:59)

Much more.

C (54:00)

If you just want to listen to more episodes, you can subscribe and drop a review on Apple, Google, Spotify, Wherever you listen to podcasts, your subscriptions and reviews help us reach more people. Wishing you a great day.

A (54:25)

Sam.