← TranscendingX - Raw Conversations and Practical Tips to Break Through Stuttering, Communication Fears, and Become Who You Truly Are
TranscendingX - Raw Conversations and Practical Tips to Break Through Stuttering, Communication Fears, and Become Who You Truly Are
#78 Consistent Wins with Greg Pandise
01:09:44
Greg is a person who stutters, sales professional in financial services, and former college athlete. When he is not working he enjoys training for ultrarunning and triathlon, doing outdoor activities and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, finding a great book to...
Loading summary
Transcript125 lines
- [00:03]
A
Welcome to the Transcending Stuttering Podcast. My name is Uri Schneider from Schneider's speech. Join me as I explore and learn from the true stories of real life heroes, people from the world of stuttering and beyond. We explore the challenges and the triumphs and most of all, how to transcend stuttering and discover our best self.
- [00:52]
B
Here we are. It's been a while since we've recorded an episode. We've got a couple lined up. But today I am super excited. Feels like everything's been training for this. This won't be an ultra marathon episode. We'll try to keep it to a regular standard duration. But my name is Uri Schneider. Exciting to have my friend Greg Handice as a guest for today. Good morning, Greg. Morning.
- [01:22]
C
How we doing?
- [01:24]
B
We're doing good, Doing good because I got some exercise in this morning. I knew we were going to be talking. I wanted to be. I wanted to be sharp.
- [01:32]
C
I haven't got a chance to check Strava yet, so we'll make sure to give you some kudos.
- [01:39]
B
Appreciate the encouragement. Listen, some of us run on Duncan. I run on Greg Pande likes on Strava. Hopefully we're going to get in that, you know, exotic run sometime in the next 12 months or so. Maybe we'll talk about that. Yeah, but yeah, just jump right in. Greg is awesome. Greg. I'll read his formal bio and then we'll jump right into the conversation. Greg is a really extraordinary human being. That's not in his bio, but Greg is a person who stutters. He's a sales professional in financial services and a former college athlete. Lacrosse and other things. When he's not working, he enjoys training for ultra marathons, ultra running triathlons, doing indoor activities and Brazilian jiu jitsu. Don't mess. He also enjoys finding a good book to read and coaching lacrosse. He's a person who stutters since he was young and he has experiences of speech therapy in his early years, even through teenage and adult life. He is grateful for everything stuttering has taught him and uses the lessons learned to deal with adversity, achieve his goals and foster positive mental attitude. Love staying involved in the stuttering community, works with a couple of non profits and he's active in mentoring and we're grateful to have him as a mentor in transcending stuttering. And I would also add that Greg's examples both in some of the work that we've done together and also how he has put stuttering on the table at work and leveraged the way he tells his story has been drift into the SLP training cohorts and workshops that we've been doing around the world. So you've left a very significant impression on us and on many people who appreciate you sharing. So it's a big treat to have you today.
- [03:38]
C
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [03:41]
B
So what's something you'd want people to know that's not on the resume?
- [03:46]
C
Something I'd want people to know is that it's something more in the weeds, that not all that stuff is. Is kind of easy or fun at times. Kind of stuff that I listed I do when I'm not working. I think that's okay. I think that's okay. But, you know, it helps me kind of keep a balance in my life. And then I know you and I have definitely talked about this something a little bit more kind of normal. I love to cook. I love to make food. I love to take care of people. So, you know, I think from playing sports my whole life, I kind of always had to have like, you know, the right food to recover and things like that. And so kind of got to cooking. My mom's a great cook, my dad can cook as well. So always got to be taking care of yourself, you know.
- [04:52]
B
So on a selfish note, since this is like R D for me as well, what's your go to recovery food or recovery drink? How does Greg Pandeis recover after a 50k?
- [05:05]
C
My go to recovery and, and this might be controversial, this is kind of out there. I drink a little bit of like salt water, so to get my sodium back up. And then I eat basically everything and anything. But I always try to get in like some sort of rice, like white. Like white rice is kind of my go to, like, it's easy on the stomach. It's easy eat a lot of help me get back out there, you know.
- [05:42]
B
Awesome. Yeah. Just to give people a taste of what Greg's talking about, that none of that stuff is easy, in case you thought this was easy. So I was, I was checking at the Wawa Yonda State park in New Jersey, Greg did a few 50k. That's. That's longer than a marathon. He also just did the Philly marathon. What Was it in 3 hours and 30 something minutes?
- [06:06]
C
3. 33.
- [06:08]
B
3, 33. So just for anyone out there who's not a runner, just picture running a pretty fast clip for 10 minutes, 20 minutes. 30 minutes, 3 hours and 33 minutes. That's incredible. And he did this 50K which was on trails, was not street running was not flat. He placed second overall. That was 6 hours and 34 minutes. Just to give you a sense of what Greg puts himself through, and something Greg said to me that I just a few days ago, before we set this up, you said something about you appreciate and want to have a life where work is not the most challenging thing in your life. You want to just share on that with that. That seemed like a really valuable thing.
- [07:00]
C
Yeah. And I think comes back to having like a work life, a balance, you know, the last thing I want to do, and I'm lucky that, you know, I have a job that I really like, but, you know, the last thing I want to do is be going into the office and being like, like, I gotta grind right now. But I feel like if I do things outside of that that are hard, you know, one of those is. Right. Dealing with my speech. Right. Another thing is, you know, more, you know, physical, where that's, you know, running, biking, doing all of those things. And when I get to work, it can be more of like a medium volume, you know, I'm not saying I'm not working hard, but just comparatively. And sometimes it can even be, you know, a relief to be able to get to the office and just sit down and not have to be doing all those things. So really just that work life balance.
- [08:08]
B
Truly inspires me. You know, people sometimes have this idea that I do things and pack in a lot, but I look to people like you, and I'm like, if this guy can have the job that he has and do the training and the endurance and the recoveries that you do, you know, I can find the time too. And all of us can kind of lead others and also find people that we can follow. But we're, we're recording this at 6:30 in the morning. Greg's not sitting at home twiddling his thumbs. So if you want to carve the time, early morning is definitely the time of champions for those that can pull it off. Um, so let's jump right in, man. What was it like growing up? What were some of those early memories or early experiences as a kid growing up with a stutter?
- [08:57]
C
Yeah, I, I think some of my earliest memories, stuttering, came in like third or fourth grade. Most of those were around, you know, and for the people who stutter who are listening, was reading in class. Like, we'd go around the class, we'd all read like a page or something. And that was not easy. But another thing that's kind of weird is I was talking to you Know, a really old friend. I've known him since I was basically born, right. And he kind of made, like, a joke one day. He was like, yeah, when you were a kid, like, you were, like, hilarious. And, like, you couldn't say anything. Like, you would just, like, try to get these words out. And that must have been when I was like, you know, call it four or five. So that was something that I learned, you know, call it when I was in my 20s.
- [09:57]
B
Wow.
- [09:58]
C
Yeah. So I didn't have a memory of that.
- [10:01]
B
And.
- [10:03]
C
To me, that says that, you know, we're. At least me personally, like, people's reactions were really more of the issue than maybe my communication skills. But, I mean, that can kind of take a toll on you after many years. You know, people's reactions, especially if they're fairly consistent, it can almost rewire you to be, you know, expecting something or to think, you know, that there's something inherently wrong with what you're doing also. Yeah, no, I was gonna say it took me a while to kind of, you know, unlearn that and get to where I am.
- [10:55]
B
What was the unlearning? Because I was struck how you said that, only that friend later on telling you, oh, man. You remember when you were little, like, we used to laugh and you don't have that memory. You don't have a. A conscious memory of that. Is it that you blocked it out, or you think it just didn't hit you? You had some sort of Teflon?
- [11:19]
C
No, I think it was more like I was, you know, four or five, didn't know that I was stuttering, and no one ever said anything to me about it, so I wouldn't know. Right. I mean, yeah, I might be able to, you know, realize I was talking a little bit differently. But, I mean, if you went through the world and you were stuttering and no one reacted differently or said anything to you, you'd be like, all right, cool. You know, So I think that's. That's more what I was getting at.
- [12:02]
B
How did family. You grew up. You grew up with mom, dad, siblings?
- [12:08]
C
Yeah, I. Two. And. And this is another thing. I had two older sisters, both, you know, very confident, very smart. And I think my. My dad brought this up when I was kind of going through speech therapy with you. But he said, oh, yeah, it's kind of weird. His sisters used to, like, always kind of, like, talk for him just from their, you know, personality. Like, hey, Greg, we're going to store. Like, we're gonna, you know, go and get lunch, like, I'm gonna order for you, or this is what you. Oh, we have to do this. Okay. Like, I'm gonna make that phone call. So, you know, maybe that also had something to do with it, and maybe that's why I didn't notice or have a memory of, you know, maybe stuttering at a younger age.
- [13:06]
B
In hindsight, looking back now, you feel that was. You appreciated, that that was helpful, or you look back and you kind of wish they hadn't done that.
- [13:16]
C
In hindsight, you know, I'd wish they hadn't have done that. Just kind of, you know, get to do what, you know, I wanted to do sooner or, you know, realize there was something to fix a bit sooner.
- [13:36]
B
Did they order. Did they order the sandwich you wanted? At least.
- [13:41]
C
I was. You did not know me back then, but I was. I was quite the handful. So if they did not order the sandwich I wanted, I'm sure everyone in the entire restaurant would know.
- [13:54]
B
Well, I didn't know you then, but I do know you're very particular about your sandwiches. I've shared this before. You know, I have you to thank for my teaching me how to brew my own iced coffee at home, cold brew overnight, and if I ever attempt making an avocado toast, I have you on my mind. Cool. So what was. What was the first time you engaged in speech therapy? Like, when did that become part of Greg's life?
- [14:26]
C
Yeah, I think it wasn't really speech therapy, but it was, like, kind of like, what seemed like reading, writing, like, kind of like extra help sort of thing.
- [14:47]
B
Like a school kid who was a handful getting some help with.
- [14:51]
C
No, but, like, my sisters went with me because my. My parents didn't want me to, like, go by myself. Right. But the real, like, formal speech therapy, I would say probably maybe like, sixth or seventh grade.
- [15:14]
B
Any standout memories? What was. What was something that was helpful or what was something that was unhelpful or annoying?
- [15:26]
C
Yeah, I do remember specifically, there was one guy, and he actually came to my house, and he was talking about, like, tapping my foot as I spoke to, like, keep a cadence or, like, keep rhythm or, like, tapping on my leg and doing stuff like that. And there's nothing, you know, if that works for you, that works for you. But for me, I was like, I don't really want to be tapping all the time. And so for him, like, that's where the road ended. It's like, all right, either you want to tap or nothing's gonna get better.
- [16:05]
B
So he. He had. He had one. He was. He was a shoe salesman selling one shoe and the shoe didn't fit. So it was like a non starter.
- [16:14]
C
Yeah, yeah. And then. And then I think I really started and there was. There was a couple others probably pretty similar to that. Maybe one other kind of put on hold. And then, and then I think in high school I saw some, you know, pre legit speech therapists. One very kind of from the physical school of thought, so, you know, techniques. And then the other, the polar opposite. Right? No speech techniques, all kind of confidence, mindset, you know, accepting that you stutter and then also accepting that that's something that can't change.
- [17:05]
B
And those went further. Those were more than. Those were deeper, longer.
- [17:11]
C
Yeah, those were. You know, one of them was probably close to a year of consistent. Probably by. By probably bi weekly. But like both of those, it was like, you know, it was. It was difficult for me to buy in completely to either of them. I was bought in, right. I was doing the work, but, you know, just didn't a hundred percent click. Like, like it seemed like with one side it was like, okay, except that you're never gonna improve. Like, I couldn't really do that. Like, you kind of know my personality. Like, a lot of the reasons why I do all this, you know, stuff outside of work is because I love to improve. I love to learn new things. And even starting something brand new, like, that's the most fun because you can learn the most, you can improve, you know, the quickest. Like, I was training for a triathlon this summer. My first swim workout ever. I literally swam for five minutes and I was completely gassed. I was like, whoa, I don't know how I'm gonna get through this. But then like two weeks, I could swim for like 30 minutes. I just had to learn technique a little bit. Pacing, breathing. And so in like, you know, 10 days, I improved like, you know, 90% and it. And you know, so that's so that's like the fun part. And then when you do something for a really long time and, you know, it's hard and harder to get better, that's kind of where people get burnt out maybe.
- [18:56]
B
I think that's so true in everything, you know, like. But it also speaks to your personality, which we'll get to. And I think talking about fitness and training because some of us would go like, great, I'm gonna do a triathlon. That's my like 20, 23 goal. And I'm just gonna go for my first swim and see like what I can crank out. And you go and like after five minutes, you're gassed and you're like, okay, new goal. I think we're gonna go to the Bahamas in 20, 23. You know, you know, you get knocked out of the water like that, but you look at it as like, yes, challenge. I'm leaning in, you know, and I think that's important, certainly in meeting you the first time and recognizing I was meeting someone who knows how to work, who knows how to do hard things. So that wasn't going to be the hard thing. The hard thing was, how do I meet you where you're at and give you what you need and not teach you to tap your feet if that's not what you want to do? Unless you want to do tap dancing together. Two things that came to mind. One is I just today saw on LinkedIn Gary Vaynerchuk. They asked him, how do you balance between satisfaction and staying hungry? And he said something very nuanced, which you just reminded me and what you said. He said he doesn't like the word satisfaction or he wants to add a little more subtlety there. He said, I think you need to be grateful and never be jealous of what other people have. And that's part one. And being grateful and appreciating what you have, appreciating what you've done in whatever measure you have, and not being jealous of looking at how much other people may have different than you. And then the second part is staying hungry, staying ambitious. It doesn't contradict having gratitude, but it's these two things at once. And I think that's what you're. What I think of you. That's what I think of. It's like appreciation, gratitude, humility. I won't say what I've said to you privately, but I think your humility is extraordinary given your accomplishments and at the same time, the hunger to go further. And if someone wants to see about swimming, what Greg just said, if you're a person who wants to do open water swimming or any swimming, and you're like not cracking it, Tim Ferriss has a TED Talk on that where he talks about accelerated learning and getting over the fear of water and fear of swimming in particular. So if you're looking to crack that, check out the Tim Ferriss TED Talk. We'll try to put that in the show notes. That's really powerful. So you're talking about having different therapists and when they were leaning all in, either one of them was on the speech mechanics and strategies and techniques to kind of control the stutter and to speak smoother. You were in. You were compliant, but something didn't. It didn't feel like the perfect fit suit. And then you had another therapist that was all in on acceptance and the emotions and the confidence. And also you were all in. And at the same time, it didn't feel like it was exactly the right fit. And then disclosure. Right. We met at some point. What was. What was it like when we first met? Do you remember that feeling of, like, wanting to do something new but also feeling skeptical? It's like the big reveal.
- [22:09]
C
Yeah.
- [22:09]
B
Open up what you really felt coming in that day.
- [22:12]
C
Yeah. So what I think I felt was, and I obviously wouldn't realize this at the time, so when I first went in to see you, you know, from the outside looking, you probably would have seen someone who seemed skeptical, who seemed like they didn't want to be there. I. You know what I really was, was someone that wanted to improve, was someone who was insecure, want to change their mindset and kind of change their life. But I was probably afraid of having to break myself down to then build back up. It was like, okay, I got to go speech therapy, and I got to talk about, you know, my speech and how tough this is and kind of go through, like, you know, all the struggles I have so we can work through them. And I think for. I don't think for anyone, you know, that's. That's really easy the first time. I think, like, you kind of said a minute prior, you know, I think that's kind of more of a skill that you learn. Right. Realizing that, you know, when things. When you're afraid of things or when you feel like something's going to be hard, kind of leaning into that and.
- [23:36]
B
Well, I can. I can definitely concur. You didn't make courageous. There you go. Shout out to Dan. Courage. Muscle. Look. Yeah, it wasn't easy. You walked in, and I knew you were a very accomplished college lacrosse player. And let's just say I think you have broader shoulders than I do, even without your pads. And you're all business. You come in with this all business face that I couldn't read one way or the other. You'd driven, what, like an hour, hour and a half on a Sunday morning or something? And here we were set up for, like, this intensive situation. So we were going to sit together for, like, two hours, take a lunch break, and then another two hours. It was. Once you were in, you know, we were in this to win this, and I was in it to win it. But, yeah, it Was it took a lot of courage for me, just like full disclosure for the therapist or for people who stutter, for parents to know. I think it's important for the therapist to come in humble and a little bit unsure. Like having the faith that you could show up but having the humility to recognize like this is a new human being you've never met. And that's the true story. But we hung in. And I think the key with you and with everyone is always looking for that feedback. How we doing? How we doing? One to ten, what's going well? What do you like and what could be better? I remember asking you that because I would tell these stories or jokes and sometimes they didn't land, didn't seem to land and I'd be like, too many stories, too many jokes. You like the stories. You don't, you know. But we got to adapt. We got to adapt to get that fit. I, lately I talk about therapy. It should be like a custom made suit, you know, it shouldn't be like taking something off the shelf and trying to get your body. I don't know about you, Greg, you might have the same problem. I, I try to find anything I can to be similar to you. Do you have thunder thighs? Like compared to your, the rest of your body? Do you find that pants are tight, we don't have to get into like wear.
- [25:40]
C
But yeah, definitely, totally. My, like my waist on my pants is like massive. It's like a few inches too big because I gotta find it them to fit my thighs.
- [25:56]
B
Oh, right. No, I'm with you. Right. You got to get the pants that don't fit at the waist because otherwise the cut on the thighs, it's not possible. It doesn't go. So I have that problem. And people are always like, oh, why don't you just get pants here, get pants there. I'm like, if only you knew. But listen, these are every. Everybody's got their thing. You just wouldn't imagine or think of it. But you know, when you work out like Greg, you know, suddenly your body changes in interesting ways that are both fit but also make clothing particular anyway. So what stands out from what evolved? What do you remember evolving? What do you remember shifting as you came in, kind of apprehensive. You wanted to make things happen, but you also had this apprehension, apprehension. You don't really want to get all messy and kind of deconstruct. It's a very messy, scary. And I think another thought people have, I know I have if I'm a client, do I Want to take everything apart. Will this person be able to help me put myself back together? I gotta. I gotta walk out of here and have a couple days in between our meetings. I don't want to be fully in shambles. So it's a big trust thing in oneself. And the therapist, what do you remember evolving in the work?
- [27:12]
C
Yeah, I mean, to, to kind of touch on how I was feeling in the beginning again, and then where I went from there. But I think trust is a big thing. And going in with prior experiences, I'm like, okay, this guy is going to, like, tell me what to do, and he's going to say that he, like, understands and all this stuff. And, you know, I had kind of like an opposite experience. Right. Like you just said, you're constantly checking in for, like, feedback, which was kind of refreshing. And, and, and I felt like, you know, you, like, you kind of let me drive to a certain extent.
- [28:05]
B
To a large extent.
- [28:06]
C
Most to all.
- [28:07]
B
90, 99.
- [28:10]
C
99 of it.
- [28:11]
B
Yeah, well, it was a different neighborhood. So when you were ready to order lunch, like I recommended, where would be a good place to get an avocado toast? But otherwise I let you run the show.
- [28:21]
C
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and, and yeah. So for. For someone who was, you know, to keep it short. Right. Didn't really want to be there.
- [28:36]
B
Let's just keep it short. Didn't want to be there.
- [28:38]
C
Having, you know, someone kind of allow you to, you know, kind of drive and control what you want to do with the time that you were there. That made it a lot easier to stay there and to, you know, come. To come back the next few. Few times.
- [28:58]
B
I always wondered if you'd come back.
- [29:01]
C
You know, same way.
- [29:06]
B
It'S. It's all the more scary letting someone drive the drive when you're not sure if they even know how to drive, want to drive, or if they're gonna, like, hit the eject button, kick you out. Yeah, yeah.
- [29:19]
C
It's a risk.
- [29:20]
B
And what, what, what did you. What did you find most helpful? What stands out as, like, a memory of something that was valuable to you? Because for sure, there was stuff. For example, the avocado toast, we could joke about it. The iced coffee, we could joke about it. But that was trust. That was relationship. That wasn't a gimmick. It wasn't a shtick. It was genuine regard for you as a person who had something to teach me. I didn't think I had a fiddlestick. And you were going to teach me lacrosse on the spot. I would have loved that. But I found something that I could connect with you, because in many ways, I don't come from your world, but I had to work hard to figure out, where can I meet you, where you're at. So that food and that stuff was a connecting point. I don't think that was the biggest. The biggest value for you. So, like, I'm wondering what stands out as, like, the most valuable part of the work or the value part of experience?
- [30:14]
C
Yeah. So the most value part of the work was learning my goals and what I needed.
- [30:22]
B
Right.
- [30:23]
C
And, you know, you know, this. You know, I can guarantee that's different for, you know, each person that you work with.
- [30:32]
B
That's right.
- [30:32]
C
And then being able to work backwards from there. Okay, well, you know, you want to be more confident, so that's more of, you know, the mental side, but you also want to be able to say these words and say these sounds. So let's learn, you know, a couple of speech techniques that you can use in a pinch. Right. It was in a way that was. There was. There was no pressure to be perfect. Eat, like, either way. So there was. There was no way to really fail because it wasn't this, like, objective kind of grading system. You know, I wasn't sitting there thinking, okay, I have to, you know, do this technique perfectly, or I have to think this way completely. It was. It was really just, you know, improving and just getting to a place where I was comfortable. It's the same thing with learning how to swim or learning how to swim, you know, for a race. Right. If I went out there and was like, cool, I have to swim this time no matter what, and I can't hit that, then I'm a failure. Right. But if I just start swinging and go, okay, I just want to improve. I just want to be able to, you know, be okay and be able to do it enough where I can go weekly and hit the pool. Like, then I'm a winner because I can do that when I'm not putting big constraints on myself.
- [32:16]
B
I want to come back to that because in the email you sent me before this, you talked about how to use stuttering and becoming a consistent winner, which I think is really powerful. What you just said. So for non. Non Strava subscribers, it's free, which should be.
- [32:36]
C
Which you should.
- [32:37]
B
That's right. That's right. That's right.
- [32:39]
C
Delete Instagram and get on Strava.
- [32:42]
B
There you go. You heard it there first. Greg Pandice tells you, get off Instagram. So if you're watching this on Instagram, get right off it, get on Strava. That's where all the fitness people are. If you don't know what Strava is, S like Sam T R A V A. I don't have any affiliate or anything like that. But it's basically, it's a very encouraging and very real. There's no faking. It tracks your stuff and then if you choose to, it's very selective in terms of you can choose to share with certain people or not be visible. But it's encouraging doing fitness with other people. And Greg and I talked about this. I haven't figured out the details, but I think creating a virtual running club and maybe having an end target of a race. For those of you that are not ready for a 50k ultra marathon, I think we'll start with a 5k. But I think we're going to get to this. The value and the role of fitness in life and how it, what it does for life, what it does potentially for a person who stutters. For some people, not for everybody. But certainly Greg is a, is someone who feels there's a lot of value there. But I wanted to ask you, Greg, you're a finance guy. You were an NCAA athlete. You know, you're not a fluffy guy. I wouldn't say you came in as like fuzzy Kumbaya. You were very goal oriented and metric oriented. So I'm curious when you're saying what you're saying now about it's important not to set like the metrics of success too rigid. On the other hand, I'm thinking many people feel like, well, if you don't have that, like what. How do you measure success? And I know that you're interested in that and that was part of your experience. What was that? What would you say about that?
- [34:36]
C
Yeah, I think, I think the big change came when I started measuring success in, in the process. So instead of being like results driven, be process driven. So, you know, is my, you know, you know, is my swim time this? No. Is that the end world? No, because I'm doing all the right things, right? You know, doing this, you know, technique, practice, I'm getting time in the pool. It's like that's how you got to measure it because it's not going to come immediately. And then, you know, if it doesn't come, are you even doing anything? You know, you're just going to sit there and think that you're a loser. Like, you know, I think about this in sales constantly. This is, this is the way that I work Right. As long as I'm doing all of the right things, right, the sales will come. You know, I can't sit there and be like, okay, I need to hit this number on this day, because one, I can do all the wrong things and that might happen, right? I might get. I might get lucky. I might swing backwards and hit a home run. And then two, I can't. I can't replicate that. There's. There's like no consistency to it. So was I even doing anything or was I just doing stuff and just hoping something happened? So really, the, the process is what I'm focused on and just kind of doing the work, doing the right things. And like, those are the small wins that you can, you know, check off.
- [36:30]
B
And I think the other big thing you're talking about is, I mean, ultimately you did the swim and you're posting ultimately the times that you wanted to hit, but there are plenty of training runs where you didn't. So I think it's about looking at the macro, not the micro pulling back the lens. And when it comes to speech, similarly, you know, not judging yourself on one moment, one word, one conversation, giving yourself a bit of a wider lens, just like the stock market, just like training, I think a lot of speech therapy, and I'll just go on a little bit of a moment here, but I think that another shift that I think about in what we did together, and I'll even share two things that you shared as goals for yourself that I think are very striking. People get focused on techniques. Did you do the technique? Did you practice the technique? The person comes back, I, I didn't do the technique this week. I know I, I should have. I. But I didn't do my homework, I didn't do the technique. The end of the day, whatever quote, unquote technique, whether it's physical speech, motor stuff, whether it's self care, whether it's working on self talk and how you beat yourself up or encourage yourself or, you know, whatever it is, that's only a means to an end. The end is what's important. And when we sat down, we did that exercise and I said, what do you really want? You said things like, you know, I want to go networking events for jobs and feel like comfortable mixing and mingling and showing my true self. You talked about that would be like an emotional thing, potentially. And then you also talked about being on the phone, family members going to the supermarket, and you want to get a certain leafy green. And that leafy green is very specific. It's arugula you know, Greg Pendeis liked arugula, and that was not the easiest leafy green to say. And it was a pretty crummy feeling on the one hand not to say it, on the other hand to say it and get so stuck on it. And so there was a place where maybe you chose to do some, some physical, you know, drilling of a behavior and making it easier to kind of glide through that while at the same time not feeling compelled or shamed to do that. It became just another tool on your, on your tool belt. So I think pulling back, big frame, getting real, the goals should be like real life and, and ultimately having many tools that you can turn to. That's, I think you were just a lesson in that. What would you say was what opened up for you? What do you feel you started doing differently or thinking differently or feeling differently after the work that we did together?
- [39:15]
C
I think giving myself credit for, like, small wins, I think, I think that was a big one. And kind of like you said, you know, the macro view, I, I, I think it's almost both, though. I think it's, the macro is obviously the big picture. And then I think getting really, really micro, like minute to minute, because I, I feel like, you know, if I lump things together in, like, days or weeks. Right. You know, if you look at a whole day, let's say you're really good at stuttering. That day you might say, oh, yeah, this day I was really good at stuttering, which is not good for, you know, which is not good for fluent speech. But if you kind of reframe, say, yeah, maybe, you know, there was a hundred times where I stuttered or I didn't really say or do the things that I wanted to do because of the way that I was thinking you could reframe, be like, oh, well, here's five times that I, that I didn't do that. And so there's, so there's five more wins. So this day was great. This was awesome. I got five more wins today.
- [40:45]
B
And your percentage went up from yesterday. That's right.
- [40:48]
C
Yeah.
- [40:48]
B
Yesterday was three.
- [40:49]
C
Maybe tomorrow I'll get six. Or maybe in the next, you know, five minutes I'll get a win. Right.
- [40:57]
B
I think recognizing that, like, Ted Williams batted for something, Michael Jordan shot under 50% from the field. These are the greatest of all time. And they missed more than they hit, but they kept swinging. And they still looked at fractional percentages of increased improvement, even though statistically reality tells you you're going to miss more shots than you Hit. But I remember this. This gamification of it. Like, day to day, it's not about perfection, but it's about improvement. It's about taking more risks and showing up more freely more of the time and recognizing that sometimes you won't. And that's okay, too. That's human.
- [41:37]
C
Yeah. And I, you know, I think that kind of day to day, or, you know, I'm. That's. That's kind of like the process, right? Like, I could sit there and be like, okay, today, like, I can't stutter. I can't block on anything. Like, that's not realistic. Like, to do anything a hundred percent is, you know, virtually impossible. But, you know, and this is something that I do sometimes. I used to do it very consistently. I would just make, like, a little, like, I would make a tally on, like, my notepads. Whenever I said a word that, you know, I would have listed as hard to say or I put myself out there. If it was, you know, call it networking or if there was someone new in the office, I walk up, you know, introduce myself. Like, that's a small win. So even if that day is not the best, I can look at this pattern, say, great, Well, I have 10 wins today, and, like, it kind of makes the rest go away.
- [42:55]
B
When we were talking. When we were talking, I remember a lot of things that we did and that we talked about, and I actually remember that we got to what you're talking about now because you were feeling a little bit like things were fluffy. And it was very important to me. And I think it should be important to every therapist or guide or coach that the player, the driver, the person who you're trying to be supportive to, that their experience, first of all, is validated. And if something's not working for them, figuring out how to make it work. But it shouldn't be that the. The guide is saying, oh, no, you're doing great. You're doing better. Because I said so. Because I'm measuring something you don't understand, but trust me, no. So we introduced this idea of, like, making it concrete. And. And you really hooked into that. And then you had a very interesting challenge. You said, well, listen, I'm. I'm networking in finance. Again, not fluffy. And they're looking at the resumes and then setting up interviews. What do I do with the stutter? Because if I do everything digitally, I present a certain way, and then if I show up for the interview and I'm stuttering, oh, and I put out a very crazy idea at the Time. And I was wondering if you could take us through that story, because I wonder how it hit you when I presented it to you. And then I remember getting a phone call from you two years later.
- [44:18]
C
Yeah. You said to put it on my resume that I stuttered and to get a bit more granular, you know, not as a line, like, you know, person who stutters, you know, for these years. But, you know, we found a unique way to kind of make it, you know, valuable, because for the people who stutter out there. Right. Stuttering is something that you're going to learn from, you know, immensely. And it's. It's something that really makes you unique and gives you a unique perspective. But what you helped me do is you were like, let's get on your resume. So for, you know, community service, like, you should be, you know, a peer mentor or do something like that. So it's on your resume, and they see that there. And I've actually, you know, I've gotten questions about it.
- [45:23]
B
How did it hit you? And I put that out there at the time. Do you remember the feeling?
- [45:27]
C
I did not want to do that. I did not want to do that at all.
- [45:33]
B
How long did it take to. Because then you called me about two years. I think we talked about that. And I think actually you still had a Runway because you were going off to grad school. You were going for your MBA after we were working together, as I recall.
- [45:47]
C
So, yeah.
- [45:48]
B
So I think I planted the seed. I knew it was a wild idea. I also insisted that you can't lie, so you got to start, like, being available to be a mentor. And I paired you up with a teenager who is like, oh, my gosh, a guy who played NCAA lacrosse is going to come have a catch with me. And he stutters. This is the coolest thing ever. So it was legit. And then two years later, you called me. So maybe fill in what happened between, like, I don't like that idea to that phone call.
- [46:20]
C
Yeah. I mean, basically, I put it on my resume and. And it became, you know, something that I think, you know, people who stutter will kind of vibe with. Like, you know, it actually allowed me to kind of tell my story and be able to show, like, those values that I learned from my speech. But I actually have a pretty funny story about it. I was interviewing, and this. This person, they're going through the resume. Pretty. Pretty standard stuff. Job experience, school. And they get to the bottom. They're like, oh, community service. Wow. You work with, you know, kids who stutter. And your mentor, that's so unique. Like, I've never heard of anyone doing that, but that is, like, that's the worst thing ever. Like, that's got to be so terrible for those kids. Like, their lives are really, you know, I'm kind of giving a little more fluff, but basically, like, oh, like, those people are really in trouble, like, all this stuff. And I was like, well, actually, you know, I stutter, and that's why I work with them. And she was like, oh, well, you sounded good on the phone. I was like, thanks. Doesn't. Doesn't change much. But even being, like, having the courage to, like, stop her and say that is. Was like a win. I'm pretty sure I made a little tally mark for that because I was able to kind of tell my story.
- [48:02]
B
I think the power of that moment is both a win and a check for you, but it's also a moment of being a champion for someone else who's going to have that interview and someone else who's going to be otherwise passed over or, you know, unfairly judged and misperceived. And so I think also for anyone who's out there, anytime you can show up authentically and set the record straight, whether it's about stuttering, antisemitism, racism, whatever, when you can set the record straight, it's for your own dignity. It's a breakthrough for you, but it also puts you in a position to open a door for someone behind you because they might not have that courage, they might not have that opportunity. So I think to recognize the significance, it's a double check. You know, double check it, double check it. And then you call me two years later, it seems like that could have been the one. Was that the one that you got that job?
- [48:54]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:57]
B
I was running. How ironic is that? I was on a run and you called me and what can I say? I don't think you would do this, but I picked up my phone while I was running, got the earbuds on. I'm like, oh, wow, Greg Pandise. You're like, hey, it's. It's Greg. Do you remember me? I'm like, is that. Is that all it was? Like, you don't. You don't think I would remember you? You know, like arugula and cold brew and avocado toast. Come on. Come on, man. Oh, man, that was the most exciting thing. And, yeah, I think you told me that even the company elevated the resumes that had community service, that they valued that. And it was like the job you wanted most. It was amazing. Amazing. So let's. I know that you. Oh boy. When did you become athletic? I want to get to the athleticism piece and fitness. Time flies when you're having fun. I'm having fun. So I want to talk about like you as an athlete and what that's done for you and how you feel it relates to how you operate, how you function, how you optimize your strongest self and if, and how that relates to stuttering. And then those lessons. I know you, you feel there's some really valuable lessons you want to share about what stuttering has revealed for you, brought out of you. So when did you become an athlete? When did you recognize that you were.
- [50:19]
C
I mean, pretty early on I, I mostly played football. I picked up lacrosse maybe like third or fourth grade when my, my town got a program. And then through high school, I was, I was still pretty competitive in sports with football and lacrosse. I actually really wanted to play football, but I ended up getting injured my junior year, so I couldn't really play in my senior year. And so I kind of was like, yeah, I like lacrosse too, so we'll do that. But.
- [50:58]
B
Adapting, bouncing back. Adaptation.
- [51:01]
C
Adapting, yeah, adapting. And then I think the biggest things that I learned from sports and that pertain to my speeches, I kind of, maybe because I wasn't the most vocal leader, I learned how to lead in different ways. So that's with, you know, work ethic being positive. And you know, I think people seeing you work and just kind of how you carry yourself can really do a lot.
- [51:36]
B
And was that conscious or just looking back, that's the way you see it or was it conscious in those years?
- [51:42]
C
It was, yeah. Yep, it was, it was, it was conscious. It was like, cool, I'm not gonna give the, you know, rah rah speech. I'm gonna be like hardest working guys. So people know that, you know, I'm.
- [51:57]
B
Here to lead Kobe Bryant style. You know, showing up at the gym, 5:30 in the morning, they're show they're waking up and you've already finished your first workout.
- [52:09]
C
Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, the way, you know, and, and, and that was a positive. But I also kind of use that as a crutch, right. Because I learned how to, you know, show value without being vocal. And, and so that almost became a crutch. But now I kind of realize that, you know, communication is largely non verbal. So how you stand, how you carry yourself, what you do with your hands, where you look. A lot of those like physical stuttering cues. You know, I think I learned a lot from that in, in sports. Right? So like, you know, the, the corniest line is like, don't show that you're, you know, that you're tired or that you're hurt. You know, stand up tall. Right. And so, and you actually helped me kind of realize that you're like, I mean, well, what, what are some physical things that you do? And a lot of them weren't stuttering. A lot of them were looking down or, you know, touching my face, doing things like that and being able to kind of be conscious of that, have someone let you know that that's happening and work on that, you know, I think that's a big deal.
- [53:46]
B
And again, Greg, just sincerely thank you because I remember doing that with you and from that conversation. The exercise that's in the ebook right now came from the conversation and notes that I have from what we did together of. And it's very important that nobody else does this for someone, but to take someone through the process of kind of reflecting and being self aware. What does it look like when I stutter? What does it sound like? What does it feel like? It's a very personal inventory. To kind of like do that. You have to be in a good place and have a good vibe with yourself and with whoever you're going to share it with. So don't impose it on someone. But by doing that, then you can really see, well, which part of this is stuttering, which is beyond my control. It's something I have to accept I cannot change. And which of these things with courage I could change. Like there's no reason I have to look away. It takes guts. It's not easy. It's a, it's a learned behavior. It's also driven by understandable social, emotional reasons. But, but it opens things up. Yeah. There's no reason a person who stutters can't be a great communicator. But if you do all the things that strip away all the good non verbal language, it's hard to be a great communicator if you don't leverage some of the strengths that you have. And so you don't have to be a smooth talker. But if you're engaging with your body language, as you said, it kind of is a much stronger signal than the speech signal even.
- [55:13]
C
Yeah, yeah. And, and that's my favorite kind of term or concept. Right. You can stutter, you don't have to be fluent. And you can be a great, great, great, great. A great communicator.
- [55:35]
B
That was better said. That was better said than I could say it. See, if I had said that, it wouldn't resonate the same, but you just put, like, big underline and massive exclamation point. And that's why these conversations are powerful for real. And you also shared with me as a person who stutters, besides the work ethic and besides recognizing how you could project strength and leadership even when you felt insecure in other things, which is also important for people to recognize. Like, when you're watching championship, you know, right now we got the World cup going on, you know, you watch these athletes, they all put on their pants one leg at a time. Right. Like, it's very important to remember that. And so I looked at Greg coming in, and I was like, this guy is like, wow. And it took a lot for me not to dress him down, but just to recognize, like, I have things I'm good at. I have things I'm a little bit shaky on. He's got things he's exceptional at, clearly, and he's also got things he's shaky on. We're both human. Boom. We're on level field. But what are those things about feeling fitness that for you, just as a. As a guy operating in personal life, communication life, work life, what does fitness look like and mean to you and how do you think it's an important ingredient in, like, how you optimize your. Your day to day?
- [57:00]
C
Yeah. I mean, at a surface level, it's something fun to do that's, you know, good for you and makes me feel good. But really what I enjoy is, like, the structure and kind of the improvement that you can make. So getting back to that, you know, process, like, I signed up for my first ultramarathon probably, like, a year ago around this time, and that was in May of 2021. And the reason I signed up, I wasn't a runner. You know, I. I didn't do much. You know, I ran a little bit, but it wasn't. I know.
- [57:42]
B
I told you. I told you I was running. And at the time, you were. You were seduced into it because you saw me doing it.
- [57:50]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [57:51]
B
And then you just blew me by, you know, here I am doing my 5K and you're, like, doing it 55.
- [58:00]
C
I. So I signed up because I wanted to have, like, a training plan, and I didn't know what else I could, like, plan for because I would, like. I would, like, get bored. I'd, like, lose structure, because I didn't have, like, a process. I was just doing stuff. There was no, there was, there was no macro goal and there was no day to day micro that I could do. Right. It was just like, yeah, go to the gym, workout, you do what you want. Oh yeah, I might run today. And then it just got kind of like exhausting and it was like, I'm not doing anything, like, why am I doing this? You know, is this even worth my time if I'm doing it for anything? So I decided to put something on the calendar and get a training plan. And to me it's, it's, it's just really enjoyable to have, you know, small workouts that you can check off and, and then for me it, it's, you know, it holds me accountable to be like, cool. If I don't do this workout then you know, that's going to chip away my kind of end goal or the.
- [59:16]
B
Macro goal or does it bleed into the other parts of your day?
- [59:21]
C
Yeah, 100%. One, try not to make work the hardest thing in your life. I mean, two, it just makes me feel better, right? Starting my day, getting the blood moving and then just taking that kind of, you know, more, I guess, regimented process driven mentality to, you know, all parts of my life. Whether that be work, whether that be, you know, personally right. Like, you know, bad things happen, but you know, you just gotta keep chugging along. You just gotta do all the right things. And you know, I, I really, I really think, and I've kind of proven this to myself, would I prove that to anyone else? I don't really care. I proved it myself that, you know, if you stay positive, stick with a process and kind of manifest things like through that process, you know, at least for me, things have kind of happened. You know, I've gotten the promotions that I've wanted, I've been able to do the races I've wanted. I'm kind of doing all these things that I've, you know, always wanted to do. And, and to me it just came down to like making a choice and like really putting yourself out there and not being afraid to fail. And that's why I like the process. Because you can fail and you're doing the right things.
- [61:02]
B
You just tied it all together, you know, the big picture, the process and the goal. You need both, you know, because without the goal you felt like you didn't have something you were shooting for. But on the other hand, it's about focusing day to day. Are you doing the things that are going to get you there? It's not about, I Did it, I didn't do it. I'm a success. I'm a failure today. It's a process, but having realistic goals. And you talked about earlier, I loved it. You said, you know, if you set the goal today, I'm going to swim this pace, this distance, and you don't do it. It's like you can't give yourself a check. So just be poor goal setting. So one of the other things that I think is invisible with what you've done is setting good goals for yourself that you keep pushing. But it's not like you said, tomorrow I'm gonna close, you know, a billion dollars in sales. That's just not, I mean, I don't know what you're doing in sales, but setting good goals is very important because frustration is a function of expectation. If you set your goals far too high, you're setting yourself up to be frustrated. So it's finding those realistic wins just beyond your reach and, and doing things will get you there and then just doing the work. It's amazing. So what are some, what are some takeaways or things that stuttering has, has revealed or brought out for you in terms of yourself, your family, your life?
- [62:24]
C
Yeah, I, I really loved, you know, the speech therapy process with you. My father was pretty involved with that and it was, for me, it was great to learn what he was feeling as well.
- [62:44]
B
And you were, you were post college at that point, which I just want to highlight. Like, you were not a young man.
- [62:50]
C
No, I was like 23. Yeah.
- [62:53]
B
Yeah. And you walked in the first day with your dad. We had a little bit of a pow wow together. And so you, you're saying it was helpful to you to hear what he was feeling?
- [63:05]
C
Yeah. And it was so, like, refreshing. I feel like there was a weight lift off me to hear like, you know, my dad, who I hope that he loves me and cares about me, you know, was kind of feeling for me and like, you know, as a person who starts, you think you're completely, you know, alone. You know, he obviously doesn't know exactly how I'm feeling, but just the fact that there's people that, you know, care about me that feel this way, like, it's not only motivating, but kind of takes the pressure off a little bit because, you know, I was, I was lucky to have, you know, a support group that wasn't putting a ton of pressure on me. It wasn't like, oh, Greg shouldn't stutter. Right. You know, I was really blessed to have a support group that was like, yeah, I mean, when Greg stutters, like, you know, I can see how much, you know, it can change his day or it can put him down, and that's tough for me to see. And so hearing that was, Was. Was really great.
- [64:28]
B
And I remember in the other side how grateful dad was to kind of get the inside track, because otherwise, you know, as a loved one, you only see the surface. You only see what's above the tip of the iceberg. You don't see what's beneath the surface, which could be a lot of stuff that's hard or it could be a lot of stuff that's super impressive. But you don't know because you can't get on the insides till someone shares that with you. And obviously the only way someone can share is if they feel there's a space, a time, a listener. That was super powerful. Yeah. What other. You talked about lessons learned from stuttering that can translate to other parts of life. I think that was something that you wanted to. To reflect on.
- [65:17]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think really the process stuff and like, the small wins really really translates well. And then obviously being a person who stutters, you realize that people have a different layer that you might not see. And that's what I'm really grateful for.
- [65:39]
B
And.
- [65:42]
C
I always knew it a little bit, but I was kind of this, like, calloused kind of guy who was like, you know, no one's got it worse than me. Right. Which is just not true at all. Like, everyone deals with things and like you said, right. You're good at some things, I'm good at some things. Nobody's perfect. And so that is, you know, that's. That's really. Yeah, that's really what I learned and what I kind of took away from it.
- [66:20]
B
Awesome. So one last question would be if we had a. If there was like a. Help me out here. I'm blanking on the word billboard. If there was a billboard that could have like a one liner from Greg Pandeis for the world, do you have something you'd want to stick up there?
- [66:43]
C
I think everyone should just. They should give themselves credit, Right. Realize what you do well. And I'm not saying that like, hey, go tell everyone everything you do, but take note for yourself, right? If you're having a bad day, you know, realize there. There was, you know, there was definitely a few good things that you did that day and kind of be grateful for a few things and give yourself credit.
- [67:16]
B
If you're listening, those are wise words. I invite you to pick up your right hand next to your face, bring it across your body so now it's facing the other shoulder. And then just tap that other shoulder. And that's a great exercise. Gives your all selves a pat on the back. Because whatever you woke up to today, and this was something that Greg shared, you know, asked about a promotion, and they said, what's something hard that you've had to deal with? Do you want to say it or you want me to paraphrase?
- [67:45]
C
Yeah, I. I basically said, you know, I stutter. So this job, taking this job was difficult for me to do on, you know, a personal level. And now I can wake up every day and, yeah, I mean, it's a challenge and just getting on the phones and getting to work, right, That's. That's probably the hardest part. But, you know, the rest of it comparatively is pretty easy.
- [68:16]
B
So everybody is getting up and if you're facing the hard things and you're not running away, you're already winning. And it's building a muscle that's going to make you a better person and a valuable friend, partner, colleague. So get out there and do your best. And thank you, Greg, for this. This was such a sweet, honest, open, valuable conversation. Deeply grateful.
- [68:38]
C
Thank you. I really, really enjoyed this.
- [68:41]
A
Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you want more, check out transcendingx.com podcast. Sign up for our email. You'll get exclusive clips, invites to events and access to join our community and much more. If you just want to listen to more episodes, you can subscribe and drop a review on Apple, Google, Spotify, Wherever you listen to podcasts, your subscriptions and reviews help us reach more people wishing you a great day.
- [69:27]
B
SA.