Podcast Summary: TranscendingX Episode #89

Title: Confidence from the Courtroom to the Boardroom – Stuttering and Leadership with Mike Liben
Host: Uri Schneider
Guest: Mike Liben
Date: January 13, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging and deeply personal conversation, Uri Schneider, speech therapist and performance coach, sits down with longtime friend Mike Liben—childhood subject of a seminal stuttering documentary and now CEO of Chai Travel. From formative moments in childhood, through a rigorous legal career as a Brooklyn DA, to running a successful travel company, Mike shares raw, candid insights into how stuttering has shaped his identity, his leadership style, and his commitment to substance over style. The episode explores the interplay of vulnerability, resilience, and authenticity—demonstrating how what is perceived as adversity can be transformed into profound leadership strength.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Substance Over Style: Mike’s Core Value (00:03 - 05:48)

• Obsession with Substance: Mike explains his priority on the substance of communication, valuing what is said over how it is delivered.
  • “[Style] can oftentimes be focused so much...I really, I have an obsession with, I think, substance.” (02:24 - Mike)
• He intentionally focuses his energy on delivering the message rather than managing fluency at the expense of depth.
  • “It takes away from the cognitive ability to focus on the substance of what I am saying, which is the most important thing to me.” (04:35 - Mike)
• Balance with Style: Mike acknowledges sometimes needing to “push the slider” toward style, especially in high-stakes situations, but substance is usually paramount.

2. Early Memories and Formative Experiences with Stuttering (06:11 - 11:50)

• Formative School Experience: Mike recounts a traumatic but pivotal elementary school moment, leading the Pledge of Allegiance and experiencing a “mountain sized block” in front of hundreds.
  • “It was a couple minutes, like in real time. That was a very hard moment. One that stuck with me for a long time—except did not stop me from seeking out those opportunities in the future.” (06:29 - Mike)
• Adrenaline Rush: Despite hardship, Mike describes a rush of pride after completing tough speaking tasks.
  • “There’s a rush...of oh my God. I got through that and I did it.” (08:37 - Mike)
  • “The only way to get better at doing things that are hard is to do things that are hard.” (09:42 - Mike)

3. Navigating Social Reactions: The Dumbest and the Most Helpful (09:50 - 13:02)

• Unhelpful Advice: Mike shares some of the most misguided comments he received:
  • “‘If I stomp my foot while I am stuttering, I will eventually be able to get it out. Needless to say, it has not worked yet.’” (10:01 - Mike)
  • “Did you forget your name?” is a question he still receives. He responds directly, “No, I have a speech impediment.” (10:40 - Mike)
• Best Support: The most helpful response is simply waiting and listening—treating him as you would any other speaker, with patience and respect. (11:57 - Mike)

4. Family Influence, Resilience & Role Models (13:02 - 22:38)

• Mother’s Support: Mike’s mother, herself a person who stuttered, was a quietly steady source of support.
  • “She was always tremendously supportive emotionally from day one.” (13:27 - Mike)
• Father’s Intensity: His father was “tremendously intense” and often worried about Mike’s future because of his stutter, but ultimately modeled relentless resilience in facing his own challenges.
  • “The same intensity, relentlessness...was the model of how he operated in the world.” (19:42 - Uri)
• Role of Dr. Phil Schneider: Mike’s speech therapist shaped his perspective, helping him reframe stuttering as a universal challenge and distilling guiding mantras.
  • “He also was able to phrase these things that I had been feeling in ways that became my own mantras...” (20:40 - Mike)
• Transmitting Resilience: Uri reflects on the idea that resilience is often inherited not genetically, but through modeled attitudes toward adversity. (20:10 - Uri)

5. The Bar Mitzvah Speech – A Formative Public Experience (22:38 - 31:15)

• Meticulous Preparation: Mike, Phil Schneider, and family spent months preparing the speech, including extensive practice, scripting pauses, and planning coping strategies. (22:44 - Mike)
• Performance Under Pressure: Despite preparation, Mike’s speech was characterized by notable stuttering. Phil Schneider stood beside him, a supportive presence, but Mike gave a subtle nudge to “take over and get through this” solo.
  • “I wanted him there beforehand. But then...I was just going to get through this thing any way I could at that moment.” (25:56 - Mike)
• Impact Over Fluency: The message, centered on “fences” (obstacles) and personal perseverance, resonated with the audience. Mike received deeply grateful letters from attendees moved to address their own challenges.
  • “It wasn’t perfect, but I think I got my point across.” (29:37 - Mike)
  • “They heard the message. And if you had given the talk or anyone else gave the talk, they might not have sent those letters.” (30:19 - Uri)
• Mantra: “I have this challenge in my life. Here’s what I’m doing about it now. And yeah, it’s not perfect, except we do what we have to regardless.” (30:21 - Mike)

6. Living with, Not Moving On from, Adversity (30:45 - 31:26)

• Uri and Mike discuss the power of embracing difficulties as integral, not as burdens to be discarded.
  • “I don’t want to get on with it without it...I want to get on with it, with it. Not moving on past it, but like, with it. Moving into life.” (31:15 - Uri)

7. Choosing a Demanding Career: Law & the Courtroom (31:26 - 39:31)

• DA Career & Stuttering: Despite his stutter, Mike chose to pursue law and become a Brooklyn DA, delivering public arguments daily.
  • “There were probably a couple different avenues you could have chosen than being in the courtroom.” (31:57 - Uri)
  • “At the end of the day, I believe in the importance of substance over style.” (33:40 - Mike)
• Interview with the DA: In a final interview, the DA offers Mike a writing assignment due to his speech; Mike insists on full DA duties.
  • “Because at the end of the day, I think what I have to say will trump, however I’m saying it.” (35:23 - Mike)
  • “Well, you clearly don’t lack for confidence, so we’ll go with that.” (36:13 - DA, recounted by Mike)
• Hardest Day: Mike describes the intense anxiety of his first “calendar call” in court, where he took several minutes just to say his name. But over time, his diligence and preparation made him the preferred ADA in court.
  • “After a few months the judges started preferring I was there because the overall efficiency and the overall content was going to be stronger and quicker.” (39:31 - Mike)

8. Entrepreneurship & Leadership: Chai (Chai/Hi) Travel (39:46 - 52:13)

• Founding Chai Travel: With his siblings, Mike started a new travel company, building from scratch after decades of observing his father’s legendary example in the industry.
  • “Regardless of what your last name is…to start something truly from the ground up has a lot of challenges.” (50:14 - Mike)
• People First: Taking inspiration from his father, Mike emphasizes treating both clients and employees “like family,” leading with empathy and fairness.
  • “All it is is people and people have their own problems in their lives. Properly running an organization is helping people…in whatever way that we can.” (48:20 - Mike)

9. Stuttering and Leadership – Empathy, Challenge, and Growth (48:12 - 50:55)

• Leadership Lessons: Stuttering has given Mike empathy for others and unique experience in handling challenges. He credits it for his approach to people management and leading through vulnerability.

10. Advice for Others & Dispelling Misconceptions (56:23 - 58:44)

• Biggest Misconception: Stuttering (or any communication challenge) is not disqualifying for meaningful or high-pressure roles.
  • “Because there is this challenge, because there is this fluency, it is automatically disqualifying from doing anything…I do not believe that that is the case.” (57:00 - Mike)
• Let Children Lead: Urges parents and educators to respect young people’s priorities regarding speech and therapy, allowing agency and balance.
  • “You need to let your kid or your student really be the one who’s deciding on the course with this kind of thing.” (57:33 - Mike)
• Mantra for the Billboards:
  • “Substance is what matters. That’s it.” (58:46 - Mike)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s the only way to get better at doing things that are hard is to do things that are hard.” — Mike (09:42)
• “I have an obsession with—I think—substance. And yes, you need the style, but I’m always extremely focused on…the substance of things.” — Mike (02:24)
• “You clearly don’t lack for confidence, so we’ll go with that.” — DA to Mike (36:13)
• “If the message is there, then the fluency in the style is really secondary.” — Mike (28:54)
• “I think what really resonated with people…is I have this challenge in my life. Here’s what I’m doing about it now. And, yeah, it’s not perfect, except we do what we have to regardless.” — Mike (30:21)
• “All it is is people and people have their own problems in their lives. And a huge part of properly running an organization is helping people…in whatever way that we can.” — Mike (48:20)
• “Substance is what matters. That’s it.” — Mike (58:46)

Key Timestamps

• Substance vs. Style, Mike’s Philosophy: 00:03 – 05:48
• Childhood Memories & School Challenge: 06:11 – 09:50
• Bad Advice & Good Support: 09:50 – 13:02
• Family Influence & Resilience: 13:02 – 22:38
• Bar Mitzvah Speech Transformation: 22:38 – 31:15
• Accepting, Not Erasing, Adversity: 30:45 – 31:26
• Becoming a Prosecutor: 31:26 – 39:31
• Entrepreneurship & Company Culture: 39:46 – 52:13
• Leadership, Empathy, and Growth: 48:12 – 50:55
• Advice and Misconceptions: 56:23 – 58:44
• Closing Reflections: 58:44 – End

Natural Takeaways

Mike’s journey demonstrates that adversity, when embraced with authenticity and a focus on substance, can become a source of confidence and connection. Leadership, he illustrates, is about empathy, resilience, and helping others find their own strength—not erasing difference, but leveraging it for collective good. His parting message is simple yet profound:
“Substance is what matters.”