B (5:30)

Dusty, this is making sense. But I think what might be helpful here is, do you have an example of what modulating looks like for you?

A (5:40)

So a really good example is I years ago had a friend move in with me as a roommate, and she was going through the process of, like, learning that she was ADHD and, like, all the impacts that it had in her life. And she was also going through a lot at the time. And when she moved in, we had a conflict because she would come into the shared social spaces and she'd often be feeling, like, a really big emotion. And usually it was like an emotion of sadness or distress. And this would happen at times of the day, like when we were all. At the end of the day, like, we're all relaxing and just chilling, or like at the beginning of the day where, like, we're all getting ready for work, right? And so it was really. I found it really jarring to be sort of in my zone, just kind of vibing, like, trying to get my day going. And then somebody comes into the space and they're, like, weeping, right? Or they're, like, really upset. And, you know, because I think of myself as a good person and a kind person and a caring person, it didn't feel right to me to just like, like, ignore. Ignore her and be like, oh, well, sorry, I have to go to work. But it started to become really derailing because it was happening pretty frequently. And when we had a conversation about it, I remember she said something to me where, you know, obviously it's never nice to be talked to, especially when you're the new kid on the block and to be told, like, hey, like, you're kind of like, you're killing the vibes here, right? That's A hard. There's no good way to receive that. And I think she handled it really well. But she said to me, you know, I was told that this is a neurodivergent, friendly space and that I wouldn't have to mask here and, like, that this is a place where I could be myself. And I was like, that. That gave me pause because I was like, oh, wait, like. Because for a second I was like, wait, am I being, like, ableist here? Am I, like, forcing her? You know what I mean? It kind of knocked my brain for a loop, and I had to think about it and I had to explain, like, yes, this is a space where you can safely be your full ADHD self. At the same time, this space is shared by other people who have their own needs. You know, and maybe this is where we make a change. Like, there are unspoken rules about, I guess, like, what's appropriate when someone's getting ready for work or when someone's. Like when you walk into a room and everybody there is, like, chilling, right? And, like, is it. Is it the right move to just walk in and kind of have a big, big emotion that changes the. The vibe of the room? But. But maybe that's an unspoken rule that that person didn't know. And so how do we navigate helping her get her needs met? Help helping her feel cared about and helping her feel like she's allowed to experience her own emotions in her own home, right? As she wants to experience them, at the same time as recognizing that everybody else in that house has a right to not have their. I've heard it called, like, I don't know if you've ever heard this, but I've heard it called, like, emotional dick picking, which I love as a term. Cause, like, here's the thing. We all know that dick picking or like, randomly sending a photo of your genitalia to a person who hasn't asked for it and is maybe not expecting to see it. We all know that's super inappropriate and it's really jarring. It's a bit traumatic, right? And so I think what was happening is this person was kind of unintentionally, like, trauma dumping. And so that is kind of the, like, emotional equivalent of that. Because if I'm chilling in the living room watching a movie, I don't know that's coming at me. I'm not expecting it and I'm not consented to it, right? Like, I'm not consented to be the person to receive that emotion from you. Maybe I'd like to but if I'm not emotionally prepared, it could be really upsetting to me. It could, it could have, you know, ripple effects on, on my mental well being. And so there has to be this consent around, like, am I ready to receive this really intense thing that you're going through? But at the same time, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel your feelings. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to experience, you know, the emotional dysregulation that you experience that makes, you know, this understandable. But how do we co create something where both our needs are going to get met? And so her and I had to navigate that and I feel like we did and things got better between us. But for me, that was a big moment because I was like, oh, I'm not autistic. And so while I have had my own certain social struggles and I've had my own challenges around wanting to be accommodated and trying to figure out how to social better, I don't have to think about masking. Like, it's not a thing for me. Right. And so kind of understanding that for some, some autistic people, once they've got the concept, or some ADHD people, once we've sort of got masking as a concept, what comes between masking and complete unfiltered? Like, is there a space where we can use what skills we have to show up for the people we care about and to ask for accommodations but also recognize, like you said, that there's always going to be some need to modulate?

B (10:13)

Okay, Dusty, this actually brings up another question for me because part of this conversation with your roommate is asking for some amount of regulating or showing up differently. So how do you see modulating and regulating as different concepts?

A (10:28)

Ooh, good question. Yeah, I think for me, like, regulating is on the mood piece or on the emotional piece. Right. It's recognizing that like. So again, I'm going to talk about Carolyn McGuire, who I talked about a couple episodes ago. She had the like intimacy buckets thing. So she, she wrote a really great book called why Will no One Play With Me? Which is about social skills coaching for your kids. And now she's putting out, just in April, a new book called like the Adult Guide to Friendships or something like that. She's got like an adult ADHD friendship guide which people are really excited about. And, and she talked about this concept of reading the room. And that really resonates with me because I forget to do that. And this is where I think what we need as far as accommodations and what we can do as far as regulating and modulating might differ depending on our type of neurodivergence. Because like I, as a person with adt, am fully capable of reading the room and getting a sense of like, what is going on socially before I like jump in. If I take a minute to pause and listen and pay attention. The problem is I just often forget to do that. So like, because I'm all in my head and I'm, you know, in whatever mood I'm in, I'll often, like my roommate come into a room like a bull in a china shop, bringing in whatever kind of energy and mood I'm in, what, be it happy, good, inappropriate, loud, you know, whatever, right? So for me, it was helpful to remember that concept of read the room. And I think that's on regulating for the most part because I'm taking the emotional temperature of the room and the people in it and then checking it against my emotional temperature and going like, okay, is it appropriate right now for me to come into the room, feel, feeling my feelings at full force? Do I need to kind of dial it down and like, you know, center other people and what's going on and like regulate the emotions? Whereas to me, I think the concept of modulating is more on this, this idea of like, appropriateness. Right? So we all do this around kids, right? Except for me. I swear, around my kids, my kids swear. But like, other adults will always, when they're around my kids, they'll, they'll drop an F bomb and then they'll be like, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. Right? And it's like, I go like, no, that's fine. But around children will often modulate our language and the topics we're talking about for appropriateness. We do the same thing at work, we do the same thing at church or with our grandparents when we're visiting them in the old folks home, right? To me, I think of modulating as adapting our communications and our body language to what is appropriate in that space. So again, if I'm at, if I'm at school or I'm at, you know, a board meeting, I'm not going to be like picking my nose and putting my legs up on the, putting my feet up on the table and belching loudly. But around my friends, I mean, I don't pick my nose around my friends, but maybe you guys do. But like, I might be putting my feet up on the table and like belching and you know, being like more sort of socially inappropriate because it's like, funny, and so it's appropriate for that space. So that's how I think of modulating.

B (13:24)

Thanks for that distinction, Dusty. And I want to say a little bit more on regulating, because I think what you said is great and absolutely true in terms of what regulating is. But I think there's also more to this picture. Oftentimes with clients, when I am coaching about a personal relationship conflict, be it with a spouse or a friend, some mismatch in terms of communication, in terms of how things are going in that relationship, we're coaching to two different things. We're coaching to what is the opportunity with this other person. But we're also coaching to how can my client show up differently? Because I know for me, believe it or not, and people do not believe this about me because it doesn't happen very often anymore. But I can have a bit of a hot take temper. And so if you say something to me that I take wrong, there is a time in my life where I would just fly off the handle, or if I'm misreading a situation or feeling a certain kind of way or building up a story in my head about something that's going on between us, there's a time where I would just come at you in a hot emotional state about that. And this always resulted in a mea culpa moment on the other side where there was recognition of the misunderstanding, where there was an opportunity to come back and communicate. And so checking in with ourselves, doing the pause, disrupt, pivot in terms of not responding to that big emotion, so noticing the big emotion and then being able to step back from it and get curious about what's actually going on here? What is the emotion I'm experiencing here? What is the story I'm telling myself? What do I actually know about what's happening right now? And for me, the question I often ask myself when I'm having a negative emotion about an interpersonal relationship is what? What's the conversation I actually need to have here? So rather than just going in all blah, I'm feeling this way and you this. And like taking a pause and getting curious and asking myself first, before I approach you, what do I know about the conversation that I need to have? And you may not have all the answers, by the way. For example, when Cam and I were working together, there was a period of time where he was showing up differently and I was building a story in my head that this had something to do with me and it was really affecting me and it was affecting how I felt about him. When I actually asked him, and I asked, this was a calm conversation. I knew what conversation I needed to have. I shared what I was noticing and asked him if that had something to do with our working relationship. And it turned out it didn't at all. Cam was going through some completely unrelated stuff that was affecting how he was showing up in our shared space. And so imagine if instead I had flown off the handle at him, assuming that it had something to do with us. That would have been completely unhelpful for both of us and potentially damaging, understandably so, to our relationship. And so regulating, yes, take the temperature of the room, but also maybe take your own temperature. Recognize when you're having a dysregulated moment. And rather than reacting to that emotional dysregulation, stepping back and having a pause, disrupt, pivot moment where you get curious and figure out what's the need from here, what's the conversation that I need to have? What do I know about this feeling that I'm having? And what does a level headed next step look like?

A (17:23)

What you said there, Ash, is like so familiar to me. This idea of like, you know, you think something's wrong. And I think that's like a really good. That's like rejection sensitivity in a nutshell, right? Like you don't really have the info about what's going on, but you refer back to like past experiences or like past inferences you've made. And then you go like, okay, I know what this is, and then you come to the wrong conclusion because you're not communicating. Right. I think it's really important to say that in my opinion, you know, dysregulation is a hallmark symptom that we experience as, you know, neurodivergent people. And it's on us to manage that. And so like showing up dysregulated and expecting everyone to take it isn't part of, you know, quote unquote showing up authentically. You're like unmasking, like, that's not that. That's not what that is, right? That is still your responsibility to like, you're responsible for your own thoughts and feelings. You're. It's not anybody else's responsibility to like regulate you. I think there's something here around co regulation, right? And we can co regulate each other. And that's. That's a consensual thing that people opt into that needs talking about. It's not something you just like put on other people. And I'm saying, I say that as a person who, if any, if any of my friends are listening to this episode, they're rolling their eyes at right now because, like, I'm totally. I'm such a hothead. But I. I really try to catch myself. If I can't catch myself before, I try to catch myself, like, right after and be like, sorry about that. Sorry. I'm on it. Sorry, guys. Give me a second. I'm just gonna step away. I think, like, what I'm. What I'm thinking about here is, like, what is the process by which you determine who has to do more accommodating, who has the greater capacity, and what does that look like? Because it's going to be different every time. I'm having a really interesting experience right now, Ash, where I've. I have a new friend who is adhd. And they're kind of just learning about. They've known that they have ADHD for a long time, and they're just kind of like, learning more about the, like, autistic aspect of themselves. And they're really working hard to show up more authentically and to be okay with being who they are in front of people after a lifetime of being made to feel like who they are is wrong. So that's, you know, what I would call that process of unmasking and how this is showing up a lot is in their communication and communication, communicating their needs and preferences. And when I say this, what I mean is X. So it's interesting because it's not often that I'm the person that has the greater capacity for accommodation. And this is a situation where I distinctly notice that I'm the person for whom it's less taxing to communicate a little bit more on their level and to adapt my social and communication style to be more like, what they need or to work a little harder to understand versus, like, demanding that that person communicate in my way. Right? So whereas in the past with my, like, neurotypical friends, I felt comfortable advocating for myself and being like, okay, I have adhd. So, like, if I say this or if I show up this way, like, please understand, like, do that translation, right? Translate the adhd. And I've had a lot of wonderful people in my life who are willing to do that. And. And they've even said to me, like, there's been times where I've asked friends, like, hey, do you, like, find me hard to deal with or whatever. Or, like, do you find, you know, is this challenging? And they'll be like, no, I just know that, like, you know, you do this thing and that like, this means that, right? So they, they. I know that some of my friends will do that translating for me. And so now I'm having kind of a bit of an experience and maybe I've had it before with some other friends where like the other person might say or do something in a way that catches me off guard and I go like, oh, and maybe I, I'm a little bit, I find it jarring or maybe I, it catches me off guard and I'm not sure what it means. And I'm like, okay, well let me access my database about like what I know about this person, their communication needs and like, let me apply that and do the translating myself. And so in this situation, we're two neurodivergent people, but we've had explicit conversations about who's accommodating who in what way. And I've had those conversations before with people who have greater capacity. So I think there's like, willingness, there's consent, and then there's capacity. And all of these things play into like how you navigate creating a shared space where, where neurodivergent people can feel accommodated and can show up more authentically. And not everyone is going to be able to do that. Right? So I've had situations like with partners, for example, where people have found me weird or I say things in a way where a part like a particularly like a partner will continually take it the wrong way. And so that tells me, okay, this person's not willing or able to accommodate me in this way. So if I don't want to keep having a conflict, if I don't want to keep repeating a conflictual pattern when this comes up, okay, I have to adapt my, my way of being. And I think we all have the ability to, to like, decide if that's right for us and sustainable for us. So certainly I've been in situations, I'm thinking of a particular partner that I had where the person like didn't have a great understanding of adhd. And they tried but like in my normal way of communicating, they would just always take it the wrong way because it just wasn't what they were used to. And so I kind of had a lot of experiences with this person where they made me feel like the way that I communicated was like weird or off putting or that they didn't understand me. And so it just kind of built up more and more where like I, I kept having to adap my way of communicating just little daily things to the point where I was like, I don't like this, like, this doesn't work for me. And neither of us were able, I think, to like come over to the other person's side enough that it would have made us both feel comfortable. So we just had these like continual small misunderstandings. Whereas the example Judd that I just gave with a friend of mine who's like ADHD and kind of learning about themselves, I find it very easy for us. I really enjoy like co creating a space with this person because everything is explicit. We, you know, we can communicate about everything. And I find that's like very like very inherent in like neurodivergent culture and communication styles. This over communication. Like, I find that for some of my neurotypical friends and stuff, they're like, whoa. Like they, maybe they don't need to talk about it as much. And I'm not again, I'm not making inferences across the board, but with this person that I'm hanging out with right now is really easy because they can say like, oh hey, like this is a thing that I do, just so you know. And like, if I say this like it doesn't mean blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I go, cool. I'm not going to take it that way. And then when they do it, I'm like, it's easy, it's understood. We can, you know, because we talked about it. So I think there's, I think there's. Yeah, there's consent, right? The willingness, there's the ability, there's the capacity and all of those have to be present if we're going to co create spaces. And when that's not present in a social situation, it doesn't mean that you as the neurodivergent person are wrong and that you're like coming from the one down perspective. It actually speaks to a choice that you need to make about whether or not this is a safe and sustainable relationship for you to be in long term. Whether that's like friendship or anything.

B (24:19)

Dusty, this, this to me falls under ownership, right? We talk about, understand, own, translate, owning your own stuff, asking for but not demanding what you need and finding that healthy space between not every person is going to be able to meet every need of your. I know for me in my small circle of chosen family, I sort of know who to go to with what right there I have one friend who can find my when I'm really dysregulated, who can find that really overwhelming. And so that's not the person I go to when I'm super dysregulated. I have another friend who can be completely comfortable when I am just. I just need to talk at you and say all of the awful things I'm thinking out loud so I can hear them. Who is perfectly comfortable holding that space. And so knowing what I need, but also knowing who's appropriate to go to for that, who's at that level of intimacy, who understands me in that way, and who is it safe for them to experience me in that way? I think before we wrap up this episode, a little example from our own working relationship would be an interesting place to go from here. So when Dusty and I first started working together, there was a bit of a struggle. There was a moment of getting to know each other. Dusty's style is very, very different than Cam's. Cam would show up. Boom, my schedule is tight. Let's talk for maybe a minute or two, but then let's get our outline, let's get our episode laid out, and then I have to go. And the first several times that Dusty showed up, she was upstairs completely unready. Doesn't know. Don't. Didn't know where your podcast microphone was, didn't know where any of it was. Often anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes late. And I found that really frustrating because for my neurodivergence, I don't like to feel like I'm in a waiting mode. And so this. I'm running late. I'm running late was really challenging for me, and it was also really challenging for the way my schedule worked at the time, because I was scheduled around this pretty tight. Like, the podcast lives in this window, and there's not a lot of flexibility there. Now, this sounds like I'm ripping on Dusty, and I'm absolutely not. We have found a excellent middle ground that is working really well for both of us, and we've both kind of come to appreciate because you're still always in your kitchen when. When we get together, but now it's five to 10 minutes late, which does not trigger that. That waiting mode time that I find frustrating for me. And it's become this practice of transition time that I think we both appreciate, but for you in particular is kind of a need. So, Dusty, why don't you talk about that need that's being met in this nice middle ground place that we found where it's no longer frustrating or upsetting for me, and you're still getting what you need in order to be able to sit down and do this thing we're doing right now of making the show.

A (27:31)

Yeah, I'm not Offended. I know what I'm about. I'm aware. But I will say I think it speaks very much to the emotional regulation work that you've done that you mentioned earlier in this episode. Because I had no idea that you were frustrated until we talked about this the other day. It's interesting that you say that, because what I found when we first started the podcast, I didn't really know what to expect. And it's true, I was super disorganized at the beginning. I wasn't. I didn't know how to be ready. Right. I had to, like, learn, figure out how. What it meant to be ready. But it's interesting, that thing you say about Cam, because I feel like it's not that I'm not busy. Like, I'm also really busy, but it just manifests in a different way where I'm like, I only have so much time. But what I found is maybe because we didn't know each other, when we would sit down to podcasts, I would find that we would end up using a lot of time, like, talking, sometimes talking about the episode, and then sometimes just, like, chatting. And then for me, I'm like, okay, if we're gonna, like, get down to brass tacks and we're just gonna record that'. Something. But, like, if there's this undefined period of, like, chatting, like, I also. I have so many things to do. I also need to be using that time to do those things. Like, if we're gonna chat, why don't I be in my kitchen? Or, like, why don't I be. You know what I mean? Like, I can use the chatting period to also transition. So that's kind of how I, like, saw it. And I'd always been the kind of person where I need a little bit of help with transitions. It's always been very helpful to me to. To have somebody body double with me to get ready. Like, it's very. It's just always gonna be that way for me. Like, it's much harder for me to, like, show up ready on time, but if I can, like, spend a little bit of time getting ready with the person and do some of. Yeah, like, can we talk about the episode while I'm getting ready? Because if I feel like I have so many things in my brain anyway, and I'm like, oh, my God, I gotta do this, I gotta do this, I gotta do that. And then we're just, like, sitting and talking, it's also going to be hard for me to, like, be really present and focused and engaged. On that chat because I'm thinking about all the things I got to do or I'm feeling like, itchy. So to me, my brain's like, let's make this our transition time. Because I found that we always did need that time to talk. So it's interesting because I feel like, yeah, I'm also like, it's also an issue of being very busy, but it manifests totally differently. And yeah, I've just always been that way. But I think it was like, because I had never done a podcast before too. Like, I didn't know what ready looked like or meant, you know? And now that I do, like you say, it's a lot easier. There's still, like, times now because of. I've gone through so many changes in my household structure, like with the new kids coming in and the baby and everything. So there's. There has still been times where I, like, I message you and I'm like, I'm stuck in traffic. I'm like 30 minutes away from my house. Like, we gotta reschedule. And that's, you know, that's gonna happen from time to time just. Cause it's so. You know, we were talking earlier in the episode about a client that you have that has lots of like, young kids. And sometimes there's just no way for me to be organized enough to like, nail all the different pieces of like a school morning where everything's going wrong. But for the most part, like, you say it's a shorter time, but it is that time that I'm using as a transition. And that works for both of us because I think there's something really valuable in the, like, slow buildup and chit chat that we do. Like, it would feel a bit abrupt to just jump into it most of the time, unless it's like, okay, there's something. There's something special going on. And we really only have, you know, 45 minutes a day. Like, let's get in and get out. So we've, I think, feel like we found a way to kind of optimize it for both of us. I don't know. What do you think?

B (31:00)

Well, I will say I found this really interesting to listen to because, like you, I feel like I'm learning new things about these adjustments we've made along the way that are working for both of us and learn something new about what that transition time is for you. But yeah, I think I came in with one expectation because I had a different partner in this podcast before and what worked for him, and I was that Sitting down, getting right down to it, workshopping the episode in that way. And you just described why that doesn't and would never work for you. And so we found our own way of workshopping an episode that does work for us and works really well for us, but looks really different with your neurodivergent brain and mine than it did with Cam's neurodivergent brain and mine. And so how interesting. But listeners, you hear like we're both modulating, right? Even that thing you said, if you're 30 or more minutes late, the adjustment from can you wait for me to can we reschedule? Is recognizing and honoring my waiting mode thing that I would rather just plan another time than have to sit around and kind of wait for an unknown time that you will be available. And so listeners, I want you to hear how we're both modulating. And Dusty, you pointed out earlier we both did some regulating along the way where there were some feelings, but those feelings never came out in an explosive way manner. They always came out in terms of constructive asks, in terms of this is what I need or how can we adjust this way.

A (32:44)

And the only thing I'll say is I think I didn't know until we talked about this how much it was bothering you. And this is not a criticism, but you could have told me earlier how much it was bothering you because I'll say one adaptation I made with myself is I'm very messy, I'm very emotional and I'm often running late and I'm aware of how frustrating that can be for other people to. I used to be really defensive about it and have like, really, really bad rejection sensitivity and like, and have a lot of self esteem issues around it. But I some somehow along the way, like I kind of made this transition where like I just kind of like accepted these things about myself and I like accepted that they are hard for other people. And I just decided not to be offended about them or not to feel hurt about them or not to like make like, not to feel badly about myself about them, but like recognize that like, okay, this is like a me problem. And I know that it's gonna bother people. And so whenever people do come to me and they tell me like, you're doing this thing that is like hard for me. It used to make me feel really bad and wounded, but now I'm just like, oh yeah, like, like, like I know what I'm about and I'm fully aware that this is like a thing that really bothers people. So like, please Let, like, I became, like, a please let me know person. And so now it doesn't bother me or hurt me when people let me know. I'm actually, like, really glad because sometimes if people don't tell me, like, I actually won't know. And I think, like, the case with you was you. You're really, like, you're so chill that I may have unintentionally have exacerbated that by being like, oh, Ash, like, doesn't seems. Ash doesn't seem to mind. Right. So I really, like. I actually really like it when people tell me when I'm doing things that bother them. Because if I don't know, like, sometimes I can, I guess, change it a little more. And, like, now that I know this about you, you know, now that we've talked about it more explicitly, because there was a episode a couple episodes ago where, like, my power went out and it was really wonky. And I think that's where it became really explicit how much waiting mode bothers you. And so now I can be really mindful of that. And in the future, when the schedule goes awry, I can be even more on top of being like, hey, Ash, let's reschedule so that you're not stuck in waiting mode. And I can be more thoughtful of you, but sometimes I need help to understand how other people function, because other people do function really different from me, and a lot of other people function differently from one another. So I sometimes need that very explicit, like, this is how I. This is what works for me. And I won't take offense to it where, like, I won't make it about myself. I like that. But it took me a long time to become that person because when I was younger, I would very much inconvenience everyone, but then also be, like, really hurt about it. So it's not a good scene.

B (35:23)

A couple of things I'm appreciating about. What you just said is first, that ownership, that modeling, that's something I've appreciated about you from day one. You really do have this chaotic life that some. That somehow all works, but it's. It's so chaotic. And you own that about yourself, including owning the impact on others. But as far as not saying something before now, I think we can point to some of the things we've talked about over the last several episodes. The one that's coming to mind first for me is Buckets of Intimacy. We didn't know each other that well when we decided to start doing this podcast together. And so I think that they're alongside. This period of figuring out our working relationship has also been a period of growing our friendship. Moving the meter on where do we lie? Intimately. Can we. Is it safe to talk about these things in this way? And getting to know each other neurodivergently. Right. Which takes time. So I will counter what you said with. I think something wasn't said before now because we just didn't have the clarity, the knowledge of one another, and the level of intimacy to have this type of conversation where we can be really, really nuanced about our own quirky neurodivergent needs and make these really specific asks of one another. People I know casually acquaintances. I don't use terms like waiting mode. I don't. I don't ask them to accommodate me in these super nuanced ways because that's. That's just not where those relationships are. That's on me to modulate or regulate or let go of that relationship if. If it's bumping up against my neurodivergence in a way that's untenable for me. So all of this to say that my, My counter to why haven't we had this conversation until now, or I could have said something sooner, is we've been doing that work all along to get from where we started to get to where we are now, where we can have this type of very nuanced conversation about our neurodivergent needs and where we can willingly accommodate one another.

A (37:55)

You're exactly. That's it. Right? We're. We're building intimacy. And this is the thing not to say that even had you said anything earlier that I could have, like, I'm not implying that it was always fully within my control to be on time. Absolutely not. Even knowing this now, that doesn't mean that, like, at, you know, 9:30 on the dot, I'm gonna be like, at my desk with everything set up ready. And it's interesting because when you say you're like, oh, you have this big chaotic life, I feel like it's two things. On the one hand, I have this big, chaotic life because I can't do it any other way. Like, I have tried to be like, more organized, take on less. Like, I've tried so hard and I've come to the conclusion that there are just some things that are like, beyond me. Showing up on time, organized and ready for everything is one of them. I can show up on time, organized and ready for like, one small thing. And so I have to save that for work. Basically, right. That's. That it takes a lot out of me. It takes a lot of my spoons. And so I can't do it most of the time. My kid is late to school very frequently, band practices. There's most places in my life I'm not able to do it because I have to save it for like one area. But on the other hand, like, there are some things that are more in my control. Like, for example, you know, if I'm going to be running really late letting you know sooner or. Absolutely asking for a reschedule rather than saying like, hey, I'll be there soon. Right. Like, there are still adaptations I can make within that lack of capacity to like, show up on time and ready. But one thing that also, that I can. That I've learned to do, that I can do is to say, like, I appre. I'm going to take a second here, Ash, to say, like, I appreciate so much how hard that must have been for you and like, how much effort you put in to accommodate me up to this point. And like, I'm. I just want to take a minute to like, apologize to you and say, like, I'm so sorry that I put you through that and that probably kind of sucked. Like, thank you for. Thank you for making that space for me and I'm sorry that, that, you know, that that kind of like, happened that way between us at the beginning. And I'm glad that we have figured this out more because I really appreciate you not giving me a hard time or like, not giving up on me. And that's very meaningful for me and I appreciate you.

B (39:57)

Ah, Dusty, I appreciate you too. And I. I really want to reiterate that there's no need for an apology here because while we had a bumpy start, I was being at choice. And back to what I said a moment ago, we were building to a place where we could better accommodate one another. And that's something that I've been invested in since we started working together. I've enjoyed working with you on this podcast since we started recording together. Listeners, if you remember, this was initially going to be a 12 episode partnership. And then I was going to rotate guest hosts from there and I asked you if you would stay on with me because we were having such a good time and having such interesting conversations. So please know, alongside the challenges we had, I also saw the opportunity. I saw that I wanted to grow in this relationship with you. I saw that I wanted to keep working with you. And I trusted that over time we would iron out the kinks, which we did. So I was being at choice in regulating myself and accommodating you. And now we're in this new place where we can. We can do it better together. And the last thing I want to say before we wrap for today is, listeners, I do want you to hear. Apology aside, because that was not necessary, I do want you to hear in what Dusty just said, I want you to hear the ownership in that. Right? My life is big and chaotic. I can't do it any other way. And I recognize the impact that that has on others. And I try to adjust and accommodate in ways that work for me, knowing that that has an impact on others. So that's that thing we were talking about earlier in terms of owning your stuff, managing others expectations, asking for what you need. And also I think something to add to that is recognizing the impact on others when you can't show up differently, when you're only able to show up this way. That's all ownership. And I think that's. That just points to what we're getting at in today's episode. Not. Not everybody's gonna be for everyone. There are people who will never be able to be your friend because you are who you are. And that's true for me too. That's true for every single one of you listening to this episode. But what a beautiful space in personal relationships when you can be yourself. And that does absolutely include owning when that might be challenging for those around you.

A (42:36)

I'm just laughing because we're like, we're doing it again. We're having such a neurodivergent moment because, like, for me, okay, here's the thing. I love to give an apology because it used to me, I never used to be able to apologize because whenever I would say I'm sorry, it would immediately cause, like, I'm sorry for who I am. And like, it would trigger this whole big. Like, you never used to apologize. And then I. Now I feel like I love to give an apology because for me it's more about, like when I say, like, oh, I'm sorry about a thing that, like, it's my way of acknowledging your feelings and making you feel cared about. Not like I did something wrong and I'm bad. It's my way of being like. I feel like saying an apology to somebody is a way of caring about letting them know that I cared about an impact. It doesn't do anything to me, like, oh, I'm. I'm bad, I need to apologize, or something like that. So you're like, you don't have to apologize. I'm like, but I love. I love giving an apology now. It's like, such a great way for me to let someone know that I care about them and also, like, acknowledge. Yeah. That, you know, I'm aware that that had an impact. I didn't have an awareness then, but I have the awareness now. And I want you to know that that matters. Like, even in it, we're still like. We're like two opposite neurodiversions. Woo.

B (43:43)

Listeners, you're sort of. You're sort of getting a bird's eye view in real time in terms of what these types of nuanced conversations can look like in the appropriate bucket of intimacy. Again, not going to be having this type of conversation with an acquaintance. Wouldn' been able to have this type of conversation with Dusty when we initially started working together. But now, in a place where we can comfortably work this out in real time, here I am rejecting Dusty's apology and she's like, no, take it, because that's how I own my stuff. That's how I own my impact on you. Let me own it. So let's end here. Dusty with apology accepted. And really stoked that we're not only in this place, but that we got to share this with our listeners today. I think this is a really fascinating episode that we. We did some of the work that together that we spent the first half of the episode talking about in real time.

A (44:41)

I know. I'm so stoked. I'm like, oh, my God, they're gonna love this.

B (44:44)

Yeah, I think this is a good one. So, listeners, especially those of you in the Discord, let us know what your experience of this episode was. And until next week, I'm Ash. And I'm Dusty and this was the Translating ADHD podcast. Thanks for listening.