B (3:21)

Exactly. So I think there's a couple reasons this is important, right? One is that I think it's so important for us to have those moments. Like, the thing about having adhd, dear listeners, is not that your goal in life is to like, not have adhd, it's to like. I think it's to like harness the natural cycle of ADHD and work better with it. And we talk a lot about how to work with it in sort of like the fallow periods, like when your energy is like really low or when your capacity is low, how not to overwhelm yourself, like how to ride that, you know that and honor your need for energy. But we also need to talk about what to do when it's high and how to like, capitalize on that. Like, oh my God, I'm getting as much stuff done as three people. Oh my God, I'm having like flashes of inspiration. Because especially if you're having to spend a lot of time in that low period, there's nothing more frustrating than not getting to enjoy the high periods. Like when I am like, on it, I'm so on it, it reminds me of like, who I am and how powerful I am and like how awesome life can be. And I need to have those moments. And so setting myself up for success to be able to have those moments is really important, right? Even if it's just like, I'm going out with friends and I'm feeling really social and I'm in a great mood, if I have some like, nice clothes to put on and I can find my makeup and I can like put together a nice outfit, I feel like I'm like in a music video, right? But if I have like nothing to Wear that fits me. And all my laundry's dirty and I like put all my makeup in like a, a duffel bag somewhere and like is buried in the pile of crap and I have to go out, you know, roll out of the house sweatpants. Like I'm still having a good time, but it's not, it's not as satisfying, right? And it's like those little moments of satisfaction that just like push it over the edge. Like we need to see ourselves being competent and confident and talented and inspirational. And we can't have that if like, oh my God, I'm in the mood to write something but my laptop battery's dead, I can't find the charger, right? So for me, I think personally it's always that intersection of disorganization. When I'm inspired, it might look a little bit different for other people. But largely this concept of making the stars align for me is about lowering the, the barrier and the threshold and reducing friction points between you and being ready to have those moments so that you can have them more often, then you get to have them. And that I think really helps offset the low periods. But yeah, the other thing is, and I'll come back to this, the other thing is about this being a really good reason and a big why behind putting in that effort around the more boring rote stuff. But I'm going to make some space for you to respond here first, Dusty,

A (5:51)

I think it's so interesting that you bring up laundry because that is one of the things that I thought about when you first proposed this topic is I consider myself an amnivert. So I am neither an extrovert or an introvert. I'm a little bit of both. And swinging too far either direction can be really bad for me. And the friction point of not having something to wear will absolutely cause me to like last minute cancel plans. And even if I do have something to wear, but let's say I haven't brought the laundry upstairs so I have to run up and down the stairs multiple times. I'm kind of in a frenzy looking for, where's, where's this piece? Where's that piece? Is this piece clean or dirty? I do not know because I cannot check the one spot that it lives. All of those things will absolutely prevent me from leaving the house, will cause me to do the last minute bailout cancel thing that I don't do nearly so often these days, but certainly feel the impulse to do more often than I would like. Whereas if I can just open up my closet and I have choices and everything's there. It's so nice. I don't remember what episode it was a while ago, but we talked about the idea of tolerances and how we don't really realize as people with adhd, these, these things that we tolerate, right? Tolerating running up and down the stairs multiple times when I need to get dressed to leave the house is something I didn't realize how much friction that was introducing until I changed the habit. And here's the thing is, once you change the habit and you start to have that positive new experience with less friction, that becomes the positive motivation for doing the thing. I do not enjoy doing laundry any more than I did a couple of years ago when I was running up and down the stairs all of the time. But I really, really enjoy being able to get ready to leave the house in a frictionless way where I have options in terms of what to wear and I know where to find everything and it's easy. And that is the motivation for taking the final step for not stopping at 80%. Okay, the laundry is clean and it's folded and it's hung up, but I'll take it upstairs later. No, I'll take it upstairs now because tomorrow me is going to be so happy that I don't have to run up and down the stairs to find my freaking clothes.

B (8:23)

Exactly. And so this is kind of leading me to my next point, which is like, again, really common subject area topic of, you know, of coaching is like daily organization, like keeping your house clean, finding homes for things, busting clutter, or like having routines like getting up in the morning, going to bed at night. And I think a lot of the times what gets in the way of clients making progress in these areas is not having a really good reason why. Like, just feeling like these are things that they should do, but they're very arbitrary. And like, if you have had a tough day and you're like having a beer and watching Star Trek at 11 o' clock at night on a Wednesday, you know, to be like, oh, well, I need to go to bed at 11:30, like, can feel very arbitrary. And it's like, no, I don't want to do that. Like, and there's no good reason to. Like, if I go to bed at 12, I'll still get enough sleep. Like, we can talk ourselves out of anything in the moment when we're not in the mood to do it, especially when it feels like the reason we're doing it is just because we said we were going to do it. Right. I don't know about you, Ash, but in the moment, that never works for me. I'm like, wow, I promised myself that I wouldn't XYZ or that I would xyz, but like, I don't want to do that now. And so I think this gives more of a big reason why I had

A (9:36)

a client who had great language around that exact thing. She described these two voices in her head as the drill sergeant and the rebel. So the drill sergeant is the one that you should, you should. This is what you're supposed to do. And the rebel is the one in the moment who's like, who says, I have to me, I don't have to listen to me. And so with that client, this became really interesting language to kind of look for the. The third voice, the. The real voice. And the third voice, the real voice, the authentic voice. Her is what we're talking about here is what's the positive motivation here? What. What is my reason for wanting to do this? And when you're operating from that place and not operating from should, that also allows you to do it in the way that works for you. I've talked about this same client's dilemma with laundry in the past, where all the laundry would end up on the guest bedroom bed. It would end up laid out so that it didn't wrinkle, but it would just stay on the guest bedroom bed until she had guests over. And that the two part dilemma was a, her closet needed some amount of cleaning out and organizing so that it was functional again. But B, she realized, I don't want to take the time to hang up my daily wear clothes. She works in a school. Everything's wash and wear. It doesn't wrinkle. So it became two bins, tops, bottoms, like two laundry baskets that lived in her walk closet. Tops, bottoms, right. Letting go of the shoulds allowed her to attach to the outcome she was looking for, which was A, to have a better experience getting ready in the mornings, which was solved by having the clothes all living in one place, and B, to have the guest room be a functional guest room all of the time and not be something that she had to labor on whenever people were coming in from out of town. Right. Rather than I should hang everything up in the moment.

B (11:32)

It feels so arbitrary. And it was Dr. Russell Barkley who said, like, ADHD is a disorder of time. Like, we don't. I can't remember where he said, I wish I could find this clip again, and I probably will. But he said something like, we don't travel to the past to, like, think about what happened so that we can then travel to the future to, like, you know, future forecast and go, okay, well, this is probably what is going to happen because of base of what happened in the past. And then, like, draw a better inference or conclusion about what to do in the now. We're living in this, like, perpetual present moment with no connection to the lessons of the past or the consequences of the future. And so I think what we all have to do as people with ADHD is become time travelers, right? We need to learn to very manually engage. It's like everyone around us has, like, this natural ability to phase in and out of time, to travel to the past, to go to the future. They can move through time fluidly. We can do it, but we have to learn to do it very manually and go like, okay, we. We have to learn to ask ourselves the question, what happened the last time I didn't do this? What is likely to happen the next time, right? And so in the moment that you are really inspired to sit down and paint, and then you're so frustrated because, like, the table is a big mess, you don't have your paintbrushes, you can't find your easel, right? To be like, okay, I don't want this to happen next time. So for me, if that were my client, I would say, like, okay, one way we can lower the barrier is can we keep the brush cleaning, you know, solution right next to the sink. Can we make sure that the paint setup is near the sink so that washing the brushes is this. It's as easy as, like, putting the brushes anywhere else. Do you know what I mean? Like, how do we set up the environment for success? Which is something that Dr. Russell Barkley also talks a lot about. So then in that moment when that client is tempted to do the same thing over and over and, like, just throw the brushes in a pile in this bin. There's that pause, disrupt pivot that you talk about where they pause and they go, okay, wait, what happened last time I did this? Okay, I don't want to ha. That was so frustrating when that happened. I was. I had such a great, inspired idea for painting a flower, and then I just totally lost it, and I'll never paint that flower ever again. And I'm heartbroken about. I don't want that to happen to, like, future dusty. And it's going to be as easy for me to put the paint, like to put the paintbrushes soaking in the solution in the sink as it Is to put them away. Because the solution and the sink and the little cup to put them in is right here. You know, like, we pre primed the environment for success so that making the right choice is almost as easy as making like, the wrong choice. Right? And so when you're tempted to not do the thing, you've got a bigger reason to do it and you've got a bigger motivation to set your environment up for success and to actually follow through. So like, really, for me, it's about having the motivation to do the right thing in the moment. But before you can do the right thing in the moment, there is that precursor where you have to have set the environment up for success. Right. In this case, maybe it's like making sure that finding a setup that the paint cleaning solution, you guys can tell I don't do a lot of painting because I don't actually know what I'm talking about is right there, for example. And that might involve a little bit of work, but it's easier to get through that work when you already have so much other stuff on your plate that you could be doing when you're able to tie it to. Okay, this is going to make a really big difference in my future. To just give like a really quick alternate example. One of the things that's really hard for me is like changing batteries in my Apple airtags. Like, I just hate to. I didn't know how to do it for a while. I was avoiding doing it. So then I would have these airtags and then the batteries would die. And then the airtags did me no good, right? Like, I would be like, oh, I gotta find my keys. Oh, can't find my keys, Battery is dead. And believe me, this has been a constant source of frustration for me. I've had it happen where like, I can't find my wallet, I can't find my keys. Cause I didn't change the battery in the airtag. But it wasn't until the battery in my cat's collar started going low that I was like, I was able to be like, I do not want to not be able to find the cat and be worried that he's got hit by a car. Cause the cat gets outside. We can. Nobody come at me for having an outdoor cat. He's gonna get out whether I like it or not. I want to make sure that if I can't find him, that I know that the airtag is working. And so I've got this bigger motivation. Even though I hate changing batteries in the Apple Airtag. I'm like, future forecasting, like, how horrible would it be if one night I can't find my cat and I'm worried that something's happened to him and I'm like, why didn't I change the Apple Air tag when I had the chance? So, like, I'm going to do it like today because I don't want that to happen.

A (16:02)

So, Dusty, you were describing kind of the, the big dilemma of adhd, right. That we're, we're in this ever present moment. We don't necessarily learn from our past experiences organically so that we can apply that learning to the future. That's actually why coaching is such a great modality for people with ADHD is in large part, that's what we're doing in coaching is we're building that awareness in a useful way. But I do want to toss in that once you start having a different experience, we can also be unaware of that. We can be unaware of the, the positive change unless we take some time to reflect and notice that it's better.

B (16:49)

Yeah, that's very true. I, I see that a lot with my clients, that they're making improvements, but the story, like, the story stays the same. Right. Like I often say that our stories have to catch up to our reality and they tend to lag a little bit, you know?

A (17:01)

Yeah. So a couple of thoughts on that front. How do you, how do you catch yourself doing something? Right? How do you build that awareness? I had a client who had this really adorable practice with her adult daughter who also had ADHD called Getting My Confetti, where when one of them did something, no matter how big or how small or how silly or whatever, they would text the other that they did the thing and the response would be a gif of confetti. Right. Getting your confetti. So just taking a moment to externalize in one way or another that you've done the thing built off of that same premise. There is a celebration channel in the podcast Discord that exists for that reason. The way that I've been doing this recently and I actually completely stole this from a friend because I noticed her doing it. And I, I just think it's such a great practice is, you know, that moment where you pleasantly surprise yourself that the thing is already done, that, oh, I am more prepared than I thought I was. Oh, I did take care of this thing. Oh, I did set myself up well here. This friend of mine will just thank herself out loud in that moment. Thank you. Past me. And so I will out loud to myself, with nobody else around, occasionally be like, oh, thank you past Asher for doing this thing, for thinking ahead, for setting this up, for preparing in whatever way. And so the point here is the mechanism doesn't necessarily matter, but if you can find some way to sort of externalize, to notice, to build real awareness about what the different experience you're having is based on, the behavior change. Because when you build that awareness, that then becomes reinforcement of the positive motivation, which makes the friction of doing the thing so much less so.

B (18:52)

Yeah, like, for me, I think this is a really great. Like, this is a really great tool to. To have the big why to, like, start building some of those routines and systems. Because, like, there's. There's that. There's that group of clients that I work with where, like, routine is a dirty word to them, right? Like, you'll always get a couple people in the door who are like, I hate routines. They're like. They're like the bane of my existence. And like, again, I always say, like, you know, there's this concept of freedom to. And freedom from. And I think the reason that people hate the concept of routines is it feels like it prevents them from freedom too, because it's something they're supposed to do at a set time when they'd rather do something else. So it prevents that freedom to do what you feel like doing when you're supposed to do your routine. But for me, it's the freedom from. Right. Routines provide freedom from the stress of disorganization or being unprepared or whatever. Right. And so if I have a routine around cleaning up my art space, I probably don't want to do that in that moment. But doing it gives me the freedom from being prevented to. Prevented from, you know, making a beautiful painting when the inspiration hits. Right. And so I think it can provide a powerful motivation to get to those things because, again, there's often with adhd, there's so many number of things that we could be doing at any time, right? Like, I can continue to put off changing the apple airtag in my cat's collar time and time again because, like, oh, the kids need something, or like, laundry needs to get done, or like, there's this urgent work deadline. Like, I can always find some reason to put it off, but I have this powerful motivator to do to prioritize it now.

A (20:27)

So, Dusty, the danger with a topic like this is, listeners, I know some of you are making a huge laundry list of things you want to change. So how do you put this into practice. Start by picking one thing. Start by picking one thing. You want to lower the barrier to a place. You want to reduce friction. And it doesn't have to be a whole huge routine. It doesn't have to be a consistent laundry practice or a consistent. My newest one is I've decided since I have to eat every day and I have to cook for myself, I've decided this is relevant to our last episode, that I'm gonna make it fun. But part of it being fun for me is the kitchen being clean. But cleaning the kitchen every day is hard, really hard for people with adhd. So this can be as simple as setting out the materials, setting the intention for yourself. I've had several clients in different contexts. One who wanted to journal in the morning, so she set her journal out. So it's there as an option. One who is an artist who wanted work on a particular type of project, who set out the materials in advance. So pick one thing and pick the thing that you're most motivated by right now. Right. What? Where. Where do I want to take care of future me? Where do I want to be able to jump in and engage when the lightning does strike and start. Start with that. And it doesn't have to be something huge. It can be as simple as creating the right space for it, setting the things out for yourself.

B (22:13)

Agreed.

A (22:14)

Dusty. I think this is a good place for us to wrap for this week. So, listeners, until next week, I'm Ash. And I'm Dusty and this was the Translating ADHD podcast. Thanks for listening.