Podcast
Transmission
Hosted by Ed Porter, Modo Energy · EN
Transmission is the podcast for energy professionals navigating the global shift to a low-carbon power system. Hosted by Ed Porter, Transmission goes deep on battery storage markets, power market dynamics, and the commercial forces shaping the energy transition - with the people at the centre of it.
Every week, we sit down with the CEOs, heads of trading desks, government advisors, policy architects, and leading practitioners driving change across the industry.
These are practitioner conversations - focused on how markets actually work, where the real opportunities and risks lie, and what the data is telling us.
We cover clean energy investing, capacity markets, balancing mechanism participation, and the evolving regulatory environment that shapes returns across geographies. Our coverage spans Great Britain, Germany, Spain, and the broader European energy transition, with regular episodes dedicated to the specific dynamics of each market.
Transmission tracks the inflection points that matter: when markets shift, where capital is flowing, and what experienced operators are doing next.
We also cover power markets more broadly - interconnectors, flexibility markets, grid infrastructure, and the trading strategies that sophisticated players use to extract value in increasingly complex systems.
Who listens: Transmission is built for people who work in energy - analysts, investors, developers, traders, asset managers, and policy professionals at every stage of their careers.
If you're entering the industry or building your understanding of how battery storage and power markets actually work, Transmission is one of the fastest ways to get up to speed - directly from the people shaping them.
About Modo Energy: Transmission is produced by Modo Energy, a B2B SaaS platform that helps renewable energy companies, funds, utilities, and banks manage and value their energy assets. Specializing in batteries and provides data, analytics, and forecasting to help customers understand the financial performance of their energy assets.
The Modo Energy Terminal is the one-stop shop for teams trying to understand the commercial case for grid-scale battery energy storage - bringing together trusted indices, customizable benchmarks, independent revenue forecasts, in-depth written analysis, and much more.
Guided by the principles of transparency and usability, Modo Energy’s Terminal provides owners, operators, developers and financiers with a complete view of the landscape for storage - past, present, and future - so that users can make informed, bankable decisions about their assets.
Hundreds of organizations rely on Modo’s tools and insights to navigate market trends, optimize investment strategies, and stay ahead of industry shifts. As the storage space continues to evolve, Modo is leading the way - helping businesses unlock the full value of their assets and make smarter decisions in a net-zero future.
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Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Why Would A German Battery Agree To Switch Off? - Green Flexbility
2d ago00:37:43Tap to summarizeGermany looks like Europe's most attractive battery storage market on paper: deep power price volatility, a fast-growing renewables build-out, and nearly three gigawatts of batteries already live. In reality, developers are navigating uncertain grid connection queues, gruelling commissioning phases, and a tolling market still working out how much risk is fair to price in.Christina Hepp, Director Strategy, and Leandra Boes, Director Asset Management, both at Green Flexibility, join Ed Porter to unpack what building and operating batteries in Germany actually looks like once the PowerPoint slide meets the grid.They cover:- What a Flexible Connection Agreement actually is and why this kind of trade-off is fast becoming the norm in Germany.- Why grid operators and battery companies have historically struggled to "speak the same language", and how a shared framework like REGIOlink helps translate one side's needs into the other's terms.- What actually happens in the final weeks before a large-scale battery switches on for real: the software integration, testing and last-minute troubleshooting that never makes it into a press release.- Why choosing to sell power on the open market versus locking in a steadier, pre-agreed deal is a much bigger and riskier decision than it sounds - and why Green Flexibility is betting on the option most peers shy away from.- Just how enormous Germany's battery storage pipeline has become: enough grid connection requests queued up that regulators have had to start filtering out the projects that aren't actually going to happen.Want the data behind this conversation? Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst:https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=green-flexibility&utm_content=ko_signupChapters:00:00 Introduction01:20 Common Misconceptions About Building Batteries in Germany02:24 FID Prep and Commissioning: What Doesn't Make the Press Release03:25 Flexible Connection Agreements (FCAs): The Ski Cannon Example07:54 Germany's FCA Market Standardization10:36 Battery Commissioning in Germany: Lessons From the Toughest Phase14:29 Merchant vs Tolling: Germany's Battery Revenue Models19:30 REGIOlink: Integrating Batteries Into Distribution Grids23:11 Battery Data Sharing With Grid Operators26:27 Germany's Project Development Shakeout29:32 Co-Located Battery Projects: Pros and Cons31:47 Germany's Zonal Pricing Debate for Batteries34:32 Contrarian Views: Merchant Strategy and the German Power Market as "Barbie"
Transcribe →Why Would A German Battery Agree To Switch Off? - Green Flexbility
2d ago00:37:43Summary readyGermany looks like Europe's most attractive battery storage market on paper: deep power price volatility, a fast-growing renewables build-out, and nearly three gigawatts of batteries already live. In reality, developers are navigating uncertain grid connection queues, gruelling commissioning phases, and a tolling market still working out how much risk is fair to price in.Christina Hepp, Director Strategy, and Leandra Boes, Director Asset Management, both at Green Flexibility, join Ed Porter to unpack what building and operating batteries in Germany actually looks like once the PowerPoint slide meets the grid.They cover:- What a Flexible Connection Agreement actually is and why this kind of trade-off is fast becoming the norm in Germany.- Why grid operators and battery companies have historically struggled to "speak the same language", and how a shared framework like REGIOlink helps translate one side's needs into the other's terms.- What actually happens in the final weeks before a large-scale battery switches on for real: the software integration, testing and last-minute troubleshooting that never makes it into a press release.- Why choosing to sell power on the open market versus locking in a steadier, pre-agreed deal is a much bigger and riskier decision than it sounds - and why Green Flexibility is betting on the option most peers shy away from.- Just how enormous Germany's battery storage pipeline has become: enough grid connection requests queued up that regulators have had to start filtering out the projects that aren't actually going to happen.Want the data behind this conversation? Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst:https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=green-flexibility&utm_content=ko_signupTranscript available here:https://modoenergy.com/transmission-podcast/0b5744a4-36e3-471d-bb95-16adefb96a93?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=green-flexibility&utm_content=article_pageChapters:00:00 Introduction01:20 Common Misconceptions About Building Batteries in Germany02:24 FID Prep and Commissioning: What Doesn't Make the Press Release03:25 Flexible Connection Agreements (FCAs): The Ski Cannon Example07:54 Germany's FCA Market Standardization10:36 Battery Commissioning in Germany: Lessons From the Toughest Phase14:29 Merchant vs Tolling: Germany's Battery Revenue Models19:30 REGIOlink: Integrating Batteries Into Distribution Grids23:11 Battery Data Sharing With Grid Operators26:27 Germany's Project Development Shakeout29:32 Co-Located Battery Projects: Pros and Cons31:47 Germany's Zonal Pricing Debate for Batteries34:32 Contrarian Views: Merchant Strategy and the German Power Market as "Barbie"
SummaryWhy Renewables Are Changing How Power Gets Priced - Renewable Exchange
1w ago00:44:08Summary readyMany people picture a power purchase agreement as a 15-year mega-deal between a tech giant and a solar farm. In reality, 99% of UK PPAs look nothing like that. Power purchase agreements now sit behind a growing chunk of how the UK's electricity supply is sourced, and getting the price wrong could mean getting locked in well above the market rate for years.Ed sits down with Rob Ogden, Founder and CEO of Renewable Exchange - one of the UK's largest PPA marketplaces - to unpack how PPAs are actually priced, why REGO certificate prices have swung from over £20 to just a few pence, and what happens to Europe's ageing wind fleet as 20-year subsidies run out and thousands of turbines are pushed onto the merchant market.They cover:Why the "blue-chip" corporate PPA is the exception in a UK market dominated by short-term utility contracts, and how subsidy schemes from NFFO to CfD shaped that split.How negative and volatile power prices are forcing generators and off-takers to rethink how PPAs are priced and structured.The lessons from Covid and the Ukraine energy crisis on why locking into a 15-year PPA carries real pricing risk.Why matching thousands of small renewable generators with energy suppliers is such a hard problem to solve, and what it takes to build pricing infrastructure that can handle PPA demand spiking overnight.Why REGO prices have swung from over £20 to just a few pence, and the case for moving to 24/7 REGO matching.Want to see what future power prices look like right now? Head to Modo Energy and ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst — sign-up's free and takes seconds.Transcript available here.Chapters00:00 Introduction: Is Your "100% Green" Tariff Really Green?01:15 What People Get Wrong About Power Purchase Agreements03:45 UK Power Purchase Agreement Market Structure04:57 UK Renewable Subsidy History: NFFO, RO, FiT and CfD07:16 PPA Regret: Negative Pricing and Value Erosion09:49 Long-Term PPA Risk Through Covid and the Ukraine Crisis14:32 Hybrid PPA and Flexibility Contract Structures17:46 Renewable Exchange Origin Story: The Aberdeenshire Wind Farmers19:53 Platform Scaling Pains: Rebuilding Three Times22:41 Renewable Exchange's Impact on Consumer Energy Costs24:30 Co-Located Solar and Battery Revenue Streams26:58 REGO Explained: Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin32:16 The Case for 24/7 REGO Matching36:27 Expanding to Germany: Legacy Wind Assets and Repowering41:13 Contrarian Take: Ending Renewable Energy Subsidies
Summary
Why Renewables Are Changing How Power Gets Priced - Renewable Exchange
1w ago00:44:08Tap to summarizeMany people picture a power purchase agreement as a 15-year mega-deal between a tech giant and a solar farm. In reality, 99% of UK PPAs look nothing like that. Power purchase agreements now sit behind a growing chunk of how the UK's electricity supply is sourced, and getting the price wrong could mean getting locked in well above the market rate for years.Ed sits down with Rob Ogden, Founder and CEO of Renewable Exchange - one of the UK's largest PPA marketplaces - to unpack how PPAs are actually priced, why REGO certificate prices have swung from over £20 to just a few pence, and what happens to Europe's ageing wind fleet as 20-year subsidies run out and thousands of turbines are pushed onto the merchant market.They cover:Why the "blue-chip" corporate PPA is the exception in a UK market dominated by short-term utility contracts, and how subsidy schemes from NFFO to CfD shaped that split.How negative and volatile power prices are forcing generators and off-takers to rethink how PPAs are priced and structured.The lessons from Covid and the Ukraine energy crisis on why locking into a 15-year PPA carries real pricing risk.Why matching thousands of small renewable generators with energy suppliers is such a hard problem to solve, and what it takes to build pricing infrastructure that can handle PPA demand spiking overnight.Why REGO prices have swung from over £20 to just a few pence, and the case for moving to 24/7 REGO matching.Want to see what future power prices look like right now? Head to Modo Energy and ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst — sign-up's free and takes seconds.Chapters00:00 Introduction: Is Your "100% Green" Tariff Really Green?01:15 What People Get Wrong About Power Purchase Agreements03:45 UK Power Purchase Agreement Market Structure04:57 UK Renewable Subsidy History: NFFO, RO, FiT and CfD07:16 PPA Regret: Negative Pricing and Value Erosion09:49 Long-Term PPA Risk Through Covid and the Ukraine Crisis14:32 Hybrid PPA and Flexibility Contract Structures17:46 Renewable Exchange Origin Story: The Aberdeenshire Wind Farmers19:53 Platform Scaling Pains: Rebuilding Three Times22:41 Renewable Exchange's Impact on Consumer Energy Costs24:30 Co-Located Solar and Battery Revenue Streams26:58 REGO Explained: Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin32:16 The Case for 24/7 REGO Matching36:27 Expanding to Germany: Legacy Wind Assets and Repowering41:13 Contrarian Take: Ending Renewable Energy Subsidies
Transcribe →
The Truth About Battery Fires - Gore Street Capital
2w ago00:43:41Tap to summarizeHow dangerous are battery storage fires, really? Despite the headlines, grid-scale battery fire failure rates have fallen 99% since 2018 - from around 4 incidents per gigawatt hour to under 0.1. Even as global deployment scaled into the tens of gigawatt hours. Most people still picture a whole site going up in flames. The engineering tells a very different story. Dan Sherlock-Burke, Director of Asset Management at Gore Street Capital, joins Ed Porter for a technical look at how battery fire safety actually works - from the Moss Landing fire that shaped public perception, to the data that can flag a failing module weeks before it fails. He explains what really happens minute-by-minute when a cell enters thermal runaway, why most BESS fires trace back to operations rather than faulty cells, and why fire suppression isn't always the safeguard it appears to be.They cover:- Battery fire propagation: why "let it burn" is increasingly viable, and how modern container design has made fires spreading across a site vanishingly rare- BESS fire statistics: how EPRI's failure incident database shows a fall from around 4 incidents per gigawatt hour in 2018 to under 0.1 today, a 99% reduction- What causes battery fires: why only ~11% start with a faulty cell, while ~65% trace back to operations and integration- LFP vs NMC battery chemistry: lower combustion temperatures, no self-supplied oxygen, and why lithium iron phosphate still isn't "inherently safe"- Battery fire suppression: the contrarian case for why the wrong system can turn a fire into an explosionAsk Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst, about battery storage safety and fire risk. Get started now.You can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.0:00 - What everyone gets wrong about battery fires2:42 - Battery fire propagation and site design4:04 - Moss Landing fire: what actually happened7:04 - LFP vs NMC battery chemistry explained9:04 - Why lithium iron phosphate isn't "inherently safe"13:08 - Using data to catch thermal runaway early15:53 - EPRI's battery failure incident database16:27 - How battery fire rates fell 99% since 201818:58 - What causes battery fires: the 11% vs 65% split23:26 - Why most battery fires go unreported28:01 - Inside thermal runaway, minute by minute34:44 - Fire suppression and the explosion risk39:09 - The Liverpool battery fire41:11 - Rethinking battery fire suppression
Transcribe →The Truth About Battery Fires - Gore Street Capital
2w ago00:43:41Summary readyHow dangerous are battery storage fires, really? Despite the headlines, grid-scale battery fire failure rates have fallen 99% since 2018 - from around 4 incidents per gigawatt hour to under 0.1. Even as global deployment scaled into the tens of gigawatt hours. Most people still picture a whole site going up in flames. The engineering tells a very different story. Dan Sherlock-Burke, Director of Asset Management at Gore Street Capital, joins Ed Porter for a technical look at how battery fire safety actually works - from the Moss Landing fire that shaped public perception, to the data that can flag a failing module weeks before it fails. He explains what really happens minute-by-minute when a cell enters thermal runaway, why most BESS fires trace back to operations rather than faulty cells, and why fire suppression isn't always the safeguard it appears to be.They cover:- Battery fire propagation: why "let it burn" is increasingly viable, and how modern container design has made fires spreading across a site vanishingly rare- BESS fire statistics: how EPRI's failure incident database shows a fall from around 4 incidents per gigawatt hour in 2018 to under 0.1 today, a 99% reduction- What causes battery fires: why only ~11% start with a faulty cell, while ~65% trace back to operations and integration- LFP vs NMC battery chemistry: lower combustion temperatures, no self-supplied oxygen, and why lithium iron phosphate still isn't "inherently safe"- Battery fire suppression: the contrarian case for why the wrong system can turn a fire into an explosionAsk Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst, about battery storage safety and fire risk: Get started now.Read the companion article here.You can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.0:00 - What everyone gets wrong about battery fires2:42 - Battery fire propagation and site design4:04 - Moss Landing fire: what actually happened7:04 - LFP vs NMC battery chemistry explained9:04 - Why lithium iron phosphate isn't "inherently safe"13:08 - Using data to catch thermal runaway early15:53 - EPRI's battery failure incident database16:27 - How battery fire rates fell 99% since 201818:58 - What causes battery fires: the 11% vs 65% split23:26 - Why most battery fires go unreported28:01 - Inside thermal runaway, minute by minute34:44 - Fire suppression and the explosion risk39:09 - The Liverpool battery fire41:11 - Rethinking battery fire suppression
Summary
What Happens To Power Markets In a Heatwave? - MetDesk
3w ago00:37:55Tap to summarizeThe atmosphere is unpredictable, and weather forecasts are far more reliable on some days than others. For anyone trading power or gas across Europe, knowing the difference is everything. It's what separates a confident call from an expensive guess. In this conversation, Ed is joined by Matt Dobson - Head of European Energy Forecasting and Emma Patmore, Energy Meteorologist from MetDesk. They walk us through when they can trust what they're seeing and when they can't, and how they turn an uncertain forecast into something traders can actually act on. Along the way they cover wind droughts (or Dunkelflaute), a possible record El Niño, river levels that shut down power stations, and the rise of AI weather modelsThey cover- How weather forecast accuracy isn't fixed: Why a day-ahead wind forecast lands within 10–15% around 80% of the time, but a shifted low-pressure track can swing output 30–40%.- Dunkelflaute explained: How a blocking high-pressure system causes a wind drought, and why the longest recent German event ran nine days in early November 2024.- El Niño and energy markets: Why a milder autumn means lower heating demand and gives traders reason to sell Q4 gas.- AI weather models vs traditional models: why AI is pulling ahead at the 10–20 day horizon while traditional models stay sharper on fine-scale detail.- Heatwaves and nuclear power: How 40°C heat in France and low river levels force nuclear curtailment and Rhine freight limits, echoing 2022.Want to see how weather is moving European power and gas prices right now? Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst: Free sign up: https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=metdesk&utm_content=ko_signupRead the companion article here.You can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.Chapters0:00 - How weather forecasting drives energy markets1:01 - What everyone gets wrong about weather forecasting1:26 - Why forecast accuracy changes with the time horizon4:03 - Saharan dust and solar power generation6:02 - How weather varies over short distances7:11 - Dunkelflaute explained: wind drought conditions8:20 - German wind power and the nine-day wind drought11:08 - Teleconnections: El Nino, ENSO and the MJO12:54 - Record El Nino forecast and what it means17:30 - Trading El Nino: gas, hydro and Alpine snow17:56 - Why traders go short Q4 gas18:58 - ECMWF data and ensemble forecasting19:35 - How weather ensembles work: 151 members21:39 - AI weather models vs traditional forecasting23:25 - Are weather forecasts getting more accurate?26:17 - Climate change and weather forecasting27:50 - French heatwaves and nuclear power curtailment31:10 - Low Rhine levels and freight restrictions33:11 - The polar vortex and sudden stratospheric warming36:15 - The Beast from the East explained
Transcribe →What Happens To Power Markets In a Heatwave? - MetDesk
3w ago00:37:55Summary readyThe atmosphere is unpredictable, and weather forecasts are far more reliable on some days than others. For anyone trading power or gas across Europe, knowing the difference is everything. It's what separates a confident call from an expensive guess. In this conversation, Ed is joined by Matt Dobson - Head of European Energy Forecasting and Emma Patmore, Energy Meteorologist from MetDesk. They walk us through when they can trust what they're seeing and when they can't, and how they turn an uncertain forecast into something traders can actually act on. Along the way they cover wind droughts (or Dunkelflaute), a possible record El Niño, river levels that shut down power stations, and the rise of AI weather modelsThey cover- How weather forecast accuracy isn't fixed: Why a day-ahead wind forecast lands within 10–15% around 80% of the time, but a shifted low-pressure track can swing output 30–40%.- Dunkelflaute explained: How a blocking high-pressure system causes a wind drought, and why the longest recent German event ran nine days in early November 2024.- El Niño and energy markets: Why a milder autumn means lower heating demand and gives traders reason to sell Q4 gas.- AI weather models vs traditional models: why AI is pulling ahead at the 10–20 day horizon while traditional models stay sharper on fine-scale detail.- Heatwaves and nuclear power: How 40°C heat in France and low river levels force nuclear curtailment and Rhine freight limits, echoing 2022.Want to see how weather is moving European power and gas prices right now? Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst: Free sign up: https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=metdesk&utm_content=ko_signupRead the companion article hereYou can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.Chapters0:00 - How weather forecasting drives energy markets1:01 - What everyone gets wrong about weather forecasting1:26 - Why forecast accuracy changes with the time horizon4:03 - Saharan dust and solar power generation6:02 - How weather varies over short distances7:11 - Dunkelflaute explained: wind drought conditions8:20 - German wind power and the nine-day wind drought11:08 - Teleconnections: El Nino, ENSO and the MJO12:54 - Record El Nino forecast and what it means17:30 - Trading El Nino: gas, hydro and Alpine snow17:56 - Why traders go short Q4 gas18:58 - ECMWF data and ensemble forecasting19:35 - How weather ensembles work: 151 members21:39 - AI weather models vs traditional forecasting23:25 - Are weather forecasts getting more accurate?26:17 - Climate change and weather forecasting27:50 - French heatwaves and nuclear power curtailment31:10 - Low Rhine levels and freight restrictions33:11 - The polar vortex and sudden stratospheric warming36:15 - The Beast from the East explained
SummaryHow Thermal Storage Decarbonises Industrial Heat - ENERGYNEST
Jun 2300:37:21Summary readyTwo thirds of industrial energy demand is heat, not electricity, and most of it still runs on gas. Thermal storage converts cheap electricity into heat, stores it in concrete, and dispatches it when the factory needs it, undercutting the gas bill even though gas is cheaper per unit on average. Alex Robertson, CEO of ENERGYNEST, joins Ed Porter to explain how a thermal battery works, why it competes with lithium-ion on cost, and why grid connections - not the technology - are the real constraint on industrial decarbonisation.They cover:- Why thermal storage functions like a battery on the energy markets but stores heat one-way in optimised concrete.- The medium-temperature "frying, drying and applying" range (roughly 150 to 300C) that sits above heat pumps and below cement and steel.- How decoupling thermal demand from the electricity price typically can cut the gas bill by around 50%.- Why a 20-foot-container module stores about two megawatt hours, stacks three high, and loses only around 2% of capacity per day.- Why a flexible, interruptible asset is exactly what congested grids need - and why Germany still lacks the flexible connection framework the Netherlands is rolling out.Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst, any question from this conversation: https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=Alex Robertson&utm_content=ko_signupRead the companion article: https://modoenergy.com/transmission-podcast/80ce6824-59a1-495b-9e94-0a38bdb9572e?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=Alex Robertson&utm_content=article_pageModo Energy's solar and battery forecasts are live at modo.energy.You can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.Chapters 0:00 - Introduction0:11 - Industrial heat demand and the gas problem1:13 - One thing everyone gets wrong about thermal storage3:14 - How the concrete thermal battery works4:08 - Medium temperature heat and the customer profile6:56 - Why gas boilers still dominate German industry7:52 - Using storage to beat the gas price10:09 - Concrete versus lithium-ion: cost and supply chain13:10 - Degradation and the 25-year thermal capacity16:02 - Scaling up: module size and storage capacity16:40 - Daily cycling and storage duration economics19:50 - Seasonal variation and running gas in winter23:33 - Cost, savings and the five-year payback24:36 - The ideal customer and the grid connection test25:46 - Data centres, demand queues and grid congestion28:02 - Flexible connection agreements and the system design gap30:10 - Grid utilisation versus grid buildout33:34 - Heat as a service and unlocking investment36:04 - A contrarian view on industrial decarbonisationMusic licensed via Artlist.
Summary
How Thermal Storage Decarbonises Industrial Heat - ENERGYNEST
Jun 2300:37:21Tap to summarizeTwo thirds of industrial energy demand is heat, not electricity, and most of it still runs on gas. Thermal storage converts cheap electricity into heat, stores it in concrete, and dispatches it when the factory needs it, undercutting the gas bill even though gas is cheaper per unit on average. Alex Robertson, CEO of ENERGYNEST, joins Ed Porter to explain how a thermal battery works, why it competes with lithium-ion on cost, and why grid connections - not the technology - are the real constraint on industrial decarbonisation.They cover:- Why thermal storage functions like a battery on the energy markets but stores heat one-way in optimised concrete.- The medium-temperature "frying, drying and applying" range (roughly 150 to 300C) that sits above heat pumps and below cement and steel.- How decoupling thermal demand from the electricity price typically can cut the gas bill by around 50%.- Why a 20-foot-container module stores about two megawatt hours, stacks three high, and loses only around 2% of capacity per day.- Why a flexible, interruptible asset is exactly what congested grids need - and why Germany still lacks the flexible connection framework the Netherlands is rolling out.Ask Ko, Modo Energy's AI analyst, any question from this conversation: https://modoenergy.com/sign-up?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=Alex Robertson&utm_content=ko_signupRead the companion article: https://modoenergy.com/transmission-podcast/80ce6824-59a1-495b-9e94-0a38bdb9572e?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast_apps&utm_campaign=Alex Robertson&utm_content=article_pageModo Energy's solar and battery forecasts are live at modo.energy.You can watch or listen to new episodes every Tuesday. Transmission is a Modo Energy production. Your host is Ed Porter - Director EMEA & APAC at Modo Energy.Chapters 0:00 - Introduction0:11 - Industrial heat demand and the gas problem1:13 - One thing everyone gets wrong about thermal storage3:14 - How the concrete thermal battery works4:08 - Medium temperature heat and the customer profile6:56 - Why gas boilers still dominate German industry7:52 - Using storage to beat the gas price10:09 - Concrete versus lithium-ion: cost and supply chain13:10 - Degradation and the 25-year thermal capacity16:02 - Scaling up: module size and storage capacity16:40 - Daily cycling and storage duration economics19:50 - Seasonal variation and running gas in winter23:33 - Cost, savings and the five-year payback24:36 - The ideal customer and the grid connection test25:46 - Data centres, demand queues and grid congestion28:02 - Flexible connection agreements and the system design gap30:10 - Grid utilisation versus grid buildout33:34 - Heat as a service and unlocking investment36:04 - A contrarian view on industrial decarbonisationMusic licensed via Artlist.
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