Transcript

A (0:00)

B (0:23)

Welcome to season three of Trap Chop.

A (0:25)

Brought to you by Craig off, the choice of champions.

B (0:29)

Hello, Trap Talk Nation. We got to take a quick second. We got to thank our title sponsor, Craig Off. They make a fantastic product. Me and Ricky both use them. What do you think, Rick?

A (0:36)

Listen, folks, like I've said all along, you want to be a champion, buy yourself a Craig Off. Shoot a Craig off, you'll win championship.

B (0:44)

They're time tested. We're shooting tens of thousands of rounds a year from these things every year with no problems. Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. It's awesome.

A (0:53)

Listen, if you want to get a Craig Off, John will put my number down below and I can hook you up.

C (0:57)

All right, folks, we have let Joey go to dinner and we have brought in Jason Barnett, who is our vice president of the Central Zone. Right, Jason, that's your official title there. He is on the executive committee. So we are really pleased to have you join us today and take the time. So thank you for that, Jason. We really appreciate it.

D (1:17)

Absolutely. It's my pleasure to be. Good to see you guys.

C (1:20)

And we, you know, we always talk about, you know, obviously the ATA and competition, all those kind of things. And we know that there's this governing body that's helping keeping it running and, you know, making sure everything is happening the way it's supposed to. So this is really cool to kind of get a perspective from that side of the table, if you will. And we just got done talking with Joey Charnigo and we were talking a lot about, yeah, definitely money in the game, which is a big theme of a lot of the comments that we received online. And we were also touched on things like trophies and we went in a bunch of different areas, but because it's such a popular subject, right, the money side of the game and what does that mean and how could there be more money and, oh, there used to be money in the game. And, you know, how do these shoots have money and these shoots don't? So just to kind of go with that a little bit more, we talked a lot about the Grand American being its own thing, right? That's our World Series. That's our Super Bowl. And you probably saw from the comments, as I shared with you, the, you know, the kind of the outline here that, you know, Joey come in and said, well, what if we took, you know, a couple bucks out of the entry fee on the preliminaries and, you know, 10 bucks out of the HAA events and. And put together a purse and Stuff like that. So maybe we could start there and just kind of get your general thoughts on added money or money in the game or ideas that the ATA has kind of been bouncing around. Maybe that's a good place to start.

Summary

Trap Talk From The Back Fence

Episode: ATA King for a Day Part 2 with Jason Barnett | Trap Talk E154

Date: December 12, 2025

Hosts: Zach Nannini & Richard Marshall Jr.

Guest: Jason Barnett (Vice President, Central Zone, ATA Executive Committee)

Brief Overview

This episode features Jason Barnett, Vice President of the Central Zone and Executive Committee (EC) member of the Amateur Trapshooting Association (ATA). Zach, Ricky, and Jason dive into the organizational, financial, and competitive aspects of the ATA, examining topics such as prize money, communication and marketing, championship shoot-offs, event structure, and recognition of athletes. The hosts and Jason candidly discuss member feedback, challenges, and possible improvements—sprinkling in stories, industry anecdotes, and lighthearted banter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Money in Trapshooting & Payout Structures

[02:44] Jason notes that the topic of prize money "comes up at every meeting." He reminisces about a time when “every place, every shoot we went to, there was definite money to be won…. There was more shooters. Now, twice the shooters, half the money.”
[05:53] Jason and the hosts discuss attempts to add money to purses, referencing the Martins’ $100,000 donation to the Grand American Handicap and its limited long-term attendance impact.
[07:46] Ricky floats ideas for a mandatory added money event, e.g., raising entry fees with a fixed purse payout from each, but Jason clarifies such structures haven’t been formally tried.
[09:44] Zach emphasizes the crucial role of marketing: “If you just do trophies or you just do money… it’s not going to happen. You’ve got to … educate the people on what it is that’s happening and get them really excited about it.”
[13:04] The group agrees that shooter engagement and repeated communication are key—one-time efforts rarely suffice.

2. Communication, Marketing & Membership Engagement

[13:16] The hosts ask about EC strategies for updating the membership. Jason details the efforts of the communication committee but stresses that with diverse channels (mail, digital, social media), “There’s not a one-size-fits-all communication.”
[16:09] John (host) urges more regular, transparent communication: “There should just be a regular clip coming out on all those different media channels.”
[16:31] Jason reiterates that much is being done behind the scenes and suggests EC conversations would be beneficial to make visible to members.

3. Volunteerism and the EC Experience

[18:35] Jason shares his journey from Indiana state delegate to a five-year EC rotation (and likely ATA president in 2027): “You’re basically on the executive committee for five years, six if you count your ex officio year.”
[19:44] The hosts thank Jason and EC volunteers for their efforts amidst constant criticism and limited appreciation.

4. Option Play, Handicap System, and Mandatory Reductions

[20:34] Discussion around participation in options (e.g., Lewis and Jackpot purses): in the main Grand American Handicap, about 1,000 played Lewis (of 1,771 entries), indicating a sizable but incomplete buy-in.
[21:47] The “27-yard line debate”—should only those shooting from the max handicap be eligible for major titles and bonus money?
- Both hosts and Jason firmly oppose this idea, favoring the existing system’s inclusivity:
  
  "If a shooter gets, you know, at the 22 and he has the high score and he beats everybody... he won it." – Zach [22:52]
[23:42] Ricky advocates for “mandatory reductions” to help shooters remain competitive if stuck at tougher yardages—a subject that comes up often among ATA members.

5. Event Structure: Carryovers vs. Shoot-Offs

[48:17] Hosts and Jason explore the pros and cons of event carryovers vs. nightly shoot-offs, especially for doubles and class singles at the Grand.
- Benefits of shoot-offs: Unique competitive experience for grassroots shooters and memorable encounters facing top-tier athletes.
- Trade-offs: More shoot-offs require additional manpower, time, and cost (targets, staff overtime).
- Jason:
  
  “It's target pricing as well as personnel and employees… you're paying all the people overtime at that point too.” [50:30]
[59:17] The group proposes potential compromise formats, such as limited shoot-offs (e.g., 50 or 100 birds, then carryover if unresolved) or reserving shoot-offs for "championship week" events only.

6. Recognition & Celebration: Podiums, Ceremonies, and Media

[39:03] Zach and John highlight the lack of formal celebration for major championship winners at the Grand, suggesting ceremonies, podiums, and big checks akin to other shooting sports.

“It literally took 30 seconds to do so… but it's very important. And that brought that to my attention.” – Jason [40:09]
[44:31] Group discusses creating more memorable, media-friendly moments—such as post-victory interviews and live-streamed shoot-offs—to expand excitement and digital reach beyond event attendees.
[44:53] Jason is open to new ideas, noting he takes “notes” for consideration at the EC.

7. Scheduling of Events & Target Year Debate

[89:08] The hosts raise a major member concern: ending the official ATA target year on Saturday at the Grand American, thus making the Grand the “season finale.”
[91:12] Jason: “My personal take is that I think that makes a lot of sense… it's the Super Bowl, it's the end of the World Series, the season is over.”
[92:32] Change would require amending ATA bylaws—a more complicated, protracted process.

8. Categories, All-American Teams, & Recognition

[78:19] The question of expanding, limiting, or adjusting categories (e.g., introducing “Super Senior” or changing Lady/Junior Gold parameters) comes up “almost every meeting”; consensus for now is that “we have the perfect amount.”
[87:15] Jason admits he was initially skeptical of Junior Gold, but the data shows it retains young shooters:

“I've done a complete 180. I think the junior category is a solid category, but that's my opinion.”
[81:24; 82:42] Discussion about further honoring All-American team “captains” or first-teamers—possibly incorporating them into opening ceremonies, providing more distinctive recognition (badges, jackets, plaques, more).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Member Feedback & Volunteering

“Everybody’s got complaints about every way in which they would do it, but yet nobody volunteers.” – Zach [09:44]
“If you have… your ideas are good, I want to hear your ideas. Everybody on the EC, talk to your delegate, talk to the guys on the EC. Don’t hesitate to share your ideas.” – Jason [103:46]
On The Power of Marketing

“If you just do trophies or you just do money… if I build it, they will come. That's not going to happen.” – Zach [10:09]
On the Handicap System

“If a shooter gets… at the 22 and he has the high score… He won it.” – Zach [22:52]
“I personally think there needs to be mandatory reductions.” – Ricky [23:30]
On Celebration and Recognition

“When somebody won… it should be a big deal. And it opened my eyes, and I thought, you know what?… That's a great point.” – Jason [39:36-40:09]
“When you can go back and tell your buddies, ‘I got to stand out with the greatest shooter in the world that one day’… there’s something that you can’t put a dollar figure to.” – Zach [51:19]
On Innovation & Small Steps

“You can’t just do one. You can’t try something once and think that is momentum. You gotta, you gotta get momentum.” – Jason [30:40]
“Little progress is good. Little bites, little things, little traction points.” – Zach [75:40]

Important Timestamps

[02:44] – Discussing money in the sport and changing times
[09:44] – Marketing matters more than simply adding money or prizes
[13:04] – Communication committee, multiple channels for member engagement
[20:34] – Option play data and 27-yard line debate
[23:42] – Discussion on handicap reductions and competitive fairness
[39:03] – Opening ceremonies, podiums, and the need to celebrate winners
[48:17] – Shoot-offs vs. carryovers; unique experience for grassroots shooters
[59:17] – Proposing hybrid shoot-off/carryover formats
[78:19] – ATA's ongoing discussion about categories and classes
[81:24] – All-American team recognition and ideas for greater honors
[89:08] – The end-of-season date debate and possible bylaw changes
[92:32] – Practicalities and complications in changing the target year

Wrap-Up: Tone and Takeaways

The tone is candid, constructive, and collaborative, with plenty of humor and mutual respect. Jason is open about what the EC does and does not control, how slow-moving organizational change can be, and the central role that dedicated volunteers play. The hosts celebrate the passion of the trapshooting community and urge members to keep offering constructive suggestions—a recurring theme is the need for better marketing, more overt celebration of champions, and transparent communication.

Key takeaways:

The ATA is aware of member concerns and continually debates important issues;
Significant changes (like target year shifts or event overhauls) are complex and may require bylaw amendments;
Marketing, communication, and member recognition are recurring priorities;
Innovative ideas are welcomed, but implementation takes time and often requires balancing tradition, cost, and logistics.

For more details, refer to specific timestamps above or listen to the full episode of Trap Talk From The Back Fence, Episode 154.