Episode 023: Q&A

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trap Talk From The Back Fence – Episode 023: Q&A

Overview In Episode 023: Q&A of "Trap Talk From The Back Fence," hosts Zach Nannini and Richard Marshall Jr. engage with their audience by addressing a series of listener-submitted questions. Released on April 14, 2023, this episode offers deep insights into various aspects of trapshooting, including competitive strategies, training routines, equipment preferences, and techniques for teaching the sport to younger shooters. The conversation is enriched with personal anecdotes, expert advice, and practical tips aimed at both novice and seasoned trapshooters.

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1. Introduction to the Q&A Format

The episode kicks off with Zach introducing the Q&A segment, explaining that they've compiled questions from their social media platforms and emails over the past six months. This format allows listeners to gain personalized advice directly from experienced shooters.

Notable Quote:

“We've been doing this for I'd say about six months now. And that being said, we've got a bunch of people that responded on our Facebook and our Instagram and emailed us and just came up with some questions.” — Zach Nannini ([01:27])

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2. Evolution of Competitive Shooting

Question: How has your game changed over the years as a top shooter?

Richard delves into his journey, starting from his early days in 1988 under the mentorship of Frank Coffee. He highlights the importance of building relationships with other top shooters like Leo Harrison III and the role of consistent practice and determination in reaching and maintaining a high competitive level. Richard shares his achievements, including his 32nd All American team and multiple captaincies, emphasizing the grind required to stay at the top.

Notable Quote:

“It's easy to start, get to the top, but once you get there, it's kind of hard to stay.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([06:14])

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3. Recommended Practice Routines for New Shooters

Question: How much practice should a new shooter focus on weekly?

Richard explains that practice routines should be individualized. While some experienced shooters can handle 300-400 rounds per week, beginners might start with 75-100 rounds. He stresses the importance of mastering the fundamentals—stance, gun mount, and grip—through consistent gun lifts, which build essential muscle memory. Zach adds that using a life-size mirror during practice can help shooters maintain proper alignment and prevent barrel canting.

Notable Quotes:

“Make sure you can physically lift that gun properly. You know, the fundamentals, the stance, the gun mount, all that matters.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([08:22])

“Gun lifts... help build muscle memory and ensure proper gun handling.” — Zach Danini ([09:57])

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4. Teaching Trapshooting to Kids

Question: What’s a good age to get kids started in trapshooting?

Richard shares his personal experience of introducing his children to trapshooting at the age of five using trainer loads. He emphasizes that gun safety is paramount, teaching children to treat every gun as loaded. Richard recounts the challenges his son faced, including initial struggles and eventual rekindled interest at 18, highlighting the importance of patience and encouragement.

Notable Quotes:

“The number one rule, gun safety. You know, a gun is always a loaded gun, no matter what.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([12:03])

“Always teach them number one rule, gun safety... No matter what.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([13:59])

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5. Bead Choices for Gun Mounts

Question: What bead type do you prefer for gun mounts?

The discussion moves to bead selection, where Zach prefers smaller beads for increased precision, minimizing visual distractions. Richard favors factory bead types like the Craig Off beads but acknowledges the benefits of fluorescent beads for visibility. They discuss the importance of proper bead alignment to ensure accurate shooting and prevent misalignment issues.

Notable Quotes:

“I really think I might try to put smaller beads on because back when I shot my Ludic, I had that same type of small bead on the end of my one touch. It was a very, very, very, very small bead.” — Zach Danini ([16:39])

“You have to try it... practice with what you compete.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([20:00])

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6. Custom vs. Factory Stocks

Question: What is the difference between custom and factory stocks, and when does someone need a custom stock?

Richard explains that custom stocks are tailored to fit individual shooters, addressing specific needs such as hand size, posture, and shooting style. He emphasizes the significance of the pistol grip and stock twist in ensuring comfort and performance. Zach adds that standard factory stocks are designed for average body types, which may not accommodate shooters with unique physical attributes. Custom stocks allow for adjustments as shooters grow or change their technique, enhancing overall shooting accuracy and comfort.

Notable Quotes:

“The pistol grip is one of the biggest things in a custom stock. If you can't hold that gun right, then you can't move it correctly.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([27:26])

“Standard stocks are typically designed for average body types and may not accommodate shooters with unique physiques.” — Zach Danini ([28:35])

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7. High-End vs. Economy Shells

Question: What are the main differences between premium high-end shells and economy shells, and are high-end shells worth the investment?

Richard discusses that high-end shells generally offer better quality control, burning powder more consistently and providing stronger, more reliable patterns essential for competitive shooting. He contrasts this with economy shells, which are produced faster and may have more variability but can still perform adequately for certain shots. They highlight the importance of matching shell types to competition needs, with high-end shells preferred for longer distances and critical shots.

Notable Quotes:

“Higher-end shells provide cleaner breaks at longer distances like 27 yards.” — Zach Danini ([37:01])

“High-end shells typically burn powder slower and offer better quality control, leading to more consistent patterns and stronger shots.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([33:53])

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8. Handling Nerves in Competition

Question: Do you feel nervous during competitions, and how do you manage those nerves?

Richard shares that feeling nerves is natural and a sign of caring about performance. He recounts advice from Brent Robinson, a trapshooting legend, who emphasized the importance of controlling nerves rather than eliminating them. Techniques discussed include reflecting on past successes to build confidence, maintaining focus on the process, and using physical strategies like deep breathing and slowing down shot execution to manage anxiety.

Notable Quotes:

“If you don't feel butterfly eyes, if you don't get sweaty hands, if you don't, you know, feel sick to your stomach, he said, quit.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([40:21])

“Reflect back on doing something helps you get through what you're currently doing.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([41:39])

“Breathing, getting the heart rate down... and focusing on the process.” — Zach Danini ([43:14])

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9. Update on Richard's College Shooting Team

Towards the end of the episode, Richard provides an update on his college shooting team’s recent achievements. Competing in Division 3 at HQI Nationals, his team secured the National Championship in trap and trap doubles, alongside impressive placements in other categories. He credits assistant coach Bailey Gasling for her significant contributions and expresses optimism for future competitions.

Notable Quote:

“We won the Division 3 National Championship in trap and trap doubles... We finished third overall in Division 3, so we were third place for national championship.” — Richard Marshall Jr. ([45:00])

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10. Conclusion and Teasers for Future Episodes

The episode wraps up with acknowledgments to sponsors Remington, Winnick Shot Tracker, and RM Shooting Clinics. Zach teases upcoming episodes featuring guests like Dusty Klein and other notable shooters, encouraging listeners to stay tuned for more expert insights and Q&A sessions.

Notable Quote:

“We're gonna be out of here and we'll catch you again next Friday. It's been a pleasure and we'll talk to you soon.” — Zach Danini ([47:06])

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Final Thoughts Episode 023 of "Trap Talk From The Back Fence" serves as a comprehensive resource for trapshooting enthusiasts, offering practical advice and personal experiences from seasoned competitors. Whether you're looking to improve your technique, make informed equipment choices, or teach the sport to the next generation, this Q&A session provides valuable insights to help you elevate your trapshooting game.

Transcript

[Zach Danini]

Don't forget to follow us on our social media pages like share and subscribe. This podcast is sponsored by the following Remington made with pride in the usa Iconic American impact Winig custom gun stocks. Head on down for your custom fitting. Remember, winners shoot winning shot tracker. Like having a coach on your barrel. For more info go to takeaim tech.com Life is too short to miss. RM Shooting Clinics helping shooters from coast to coast. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. Zach Danini at Northwestern Mutual trusted advice from someone you know. We believe in putting people first. Other supporters for Trap Talk, the Nevada State Trap Shooting association don't miss their 75th annual state shoot this October in Las Vegas. The NSTA puts on some great shoots and they are going big for this year's state. Go to nvtrap.com to check out their program and all other shoots as well. Welcome to another episode of Trap Talk. Today I have my co host Richard Marshall Jr. With me. Welcome to the show, Ricky.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

What's up?

[Zach Danini]

Oh, we're just having a happy day today. We have compiled a list of the listeners questions since we started. So we've been doing this for I'd say about six months now. And that being said, we've got a bunch of people that responded on our Facebook and our Instagram and emailed us and just came up with some questions. So we figured we'd just take a show today and, and answer those questions for you all. So excited to, to get into it here with Rick?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

No, absolutely. Let's. Let's get at it. I know Zach controls all the Instagram and Facebook posts, so if you send anything and you address it to me, it goes to Zach because he's a control freak. But it's okay.

[Zach Danini]

It's okay. Somebody's got to handle the show. So. So that being said, the first question is addressed to you, Rick, Question number one. Since you've been shooting your whole life, Ricky, how has your game changed year over year as far as like what you're focusing on, you know, now that you're considered one of the big dogs, if not the big dog, does that change your. Your mentality a little bit versus being a guy coming up, you know, walk us through that.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, I mean, you know, I started shooting and 1988, registering targets and I was fortunate that, you know, my coaching mentor was Frank Coffee. Frank was one of the top shooters. So I had a great relationship with Frank, you know, met a lot of people because of Frank and ended up meeting Leo Harrison III because of Frank and So that helped. As I shot, it wasn't something that I thought, oh, I'm going to do this, you know, the rest of my life. It was, man, I like this. Was I really good at it? Not at first. I mean, could I break some targets? Yeah. But it progressed from I wanted to compete against those top shooters, and then I was fortunate enough to have the ability and the backing from my dad until I turned 18. And then, you know, I had to win to, to keep shooting. And it was one of those things that I love to do it. So I was going to make a way to make it, you know, find a way to make it work. And I did. And then I progressed into making the All American teams. You know, in this past year, I was. Was my 32nd All American team and my second year in a row being captain for my fourth time being captain. But it progressed from, I know I can do this to, you know, I want to continue to do this now. Like I've always said to people, it's easy to start, get to the top, but once you get there, it's kind of hard to stay. So, you know, I've always just grinded, you know, shoot to shoot. I go to a certain shoots, you know, usually the Arizona shoots, the. I try to hit Missouri State shoot. This year, I won't be able to because they moved the date and we leave that weekend to go to Vernal, but always go to Vernal. And then Ohio or PA State shoot, Ohio State shoot, Wisconsin, Iowa, the Grand Cardinal Classic and so on Heartland grand. Those are kind of the point shoots if you want to make, you know, captain or high up on the, on the All American team, as you know. But it's, I've progressed to where now it's, I, I've. It's a lot funner, I'll say, since my son started shooting.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

And, you know, as you know, our buddy Justin Debris, he got back into it, and his son Wyatt, so that's been a blast. We travel all over the country together and, and, and, and it makes it a little, little easier on everybody. Not so much just driving, because when you ride with Justin, as you know, he just drives. So.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah. And if I'm hearing you correctly, you know, you were. You started at one level, you know, moved up to where you were like, okay, I'm good. You know, I have some confidence. And then, and then you got to a point where, okay, I'm, you know, one of the top guys in the country, and everybody's looking to me, you know, and that, that, like you said, it's hard to maintain the top. You know, I think the hardest year of shooting in my life was when I made junior captain the next year after that, because it was like, okay, I set a goal, I hit the goal. Now, you know, where do you go, right? And now everybody's wanting a piece of you instead of you wanting a piece of them. And it's. It's just a little different. I always.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

I always want a piece. I mean, I got no problem with the. With the drive. Now. I will say it's like my dad always taught me as a kid, you. Everybody puts their pants on the same way. You know, you might be shooting with guys that are millionaires, billionaires, whatever. Everybody is the same. Treat everybody how you want to be treated. And. And that's kind of how I've been. And. And, you know, growing up around Frank Hoppy, I mean, we were always sitting, talking to people. People would ask questions to Frank, and that's. That's how I am. You know, as you know, Zach, when we're hanging out, you're like, come on, let's go. You know, you're just like my son, just like Tyler. Tyler's like, see you, dad. He just walks off, you know, let's roll. But I don't. I don't ever want to not respect somebody that comes up and. Or disrespect them. I should say that they come up, ask a question, and be like, sorry, I don't have any time for you. Even when I'm in the middle of shooting, as you see at the grandmother shoot, people come up and start talking, and you and Mullard, and just another, like, what was going on? You know, it's all good, but it's one of those that I feel like we're doing this, we're doing these podcasts, is to give knowledge back to the people and maybe give them a shortcut to what, you know, I had to go through. You know, I had Frank and Leo. And so if I ever had questions about, hey, what should I do? I could get on the phone and.

[Zach Danini]

Call Frank 100%, you know, percent.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

And so it's one of those that I always tell people, you get out of it what you put into it.

[Zach Danini]

100. So a lot of practice, you know, we do like. We do like, practice that. That's a good segue. To take us into the next question, we had a shooter ask us, how much practice a week should someone new focus on? Is it. Is it 50 rounds? Is 100 rounds? Is it more, is it, you know, on the gun mounts? More, more mental stuff like newer shooters, what do you think they should be doing?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

It's all individually. I mean it is, it's, you know, I've got some kids I teach that are, you know, they can handle three or four hundred practice a week. Then I got some new kids that can handle 75 to a hundred and they're, they're tired. What I tell people is make sure you can physically lift that gun properly. You know, the, the, the fundamentals, the stance, the gun mount, all that matters, how you're holding the gun, you know, and, and that's one of the things that just set a goal. Say okay, I'm going to shoot 100 practice in a week, whether that's go out, shoot 50 on Saturday, 50 on Sunday, during the week, whatever it might be, you know, but try to accomplish that and then raise the bar, Keep, keep setting goals. But gun lifts, I, I stress this in all my clinics.

[Zach Danini]

Gun lifts, with your gun lifts, you're building a lot of muscle memory. And, and what I always like to do is I had a life size mirror in my garage and when I did my gun lifts, I was watching to make sure everything was lining up and making sure I didn't have too much, I guess, twist in the barrel, right? That's, that's, that's can't canting the barrel, right. So, so I didn't want to have it where I'm, you know, turning this thing because I'd get in that gun so hard sometimes that I'd actually turn it and I have that barrel swing out to the right hand side a little bit and yeah, just like that.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

And then when you get a right hand target, what happens when you do that going left? A lot of people, they stay with the gun, but when they go to the right, they do this and they're looking. So here's your barrel. And then their eye looks off and then they're like, well, I was looking right at it. But yeah, the barrel's lagging by feet.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, 100%. And I think that, that you know, along with building the muscles that are required to mount the gun, it helps get to where you're like, okay, this is a good mount. And I'm always looking when I'm mounting to see are my eyes, you know, more level or, you know, I'm not like looking out the tops of my eyes because when I started I was really down into the gun and I was really looking out the tops of my eyes and over time, you know, progressively tried to, to get better with that.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Danini]

The ne. The next question we had was. And you kind of talked about the kids you were training. You know, what's a good age to get kids started in this? I mean, is it, Is it. Is it depending on, you know, how big they are, how strong they are? I mean, is there.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, you know, I, I started both my boys, they were actually 5 years old. I did, I took them out. I had a little. I had trainer loads that were a 20 gauge. It was a Quails Unlimited, one of a thousand. But we're at a 20 gauge that I actually bought from Joel, Joel Etchen. I was teaching a class out at Rolling Rock one year and he had that. I was like, man, that's a nice looking gun. So I got it and I figured, I'll give it to one of the kids. And well, Trey was the only one born then. And I thought, I'll get this for Trey. And. And so when he was 5, took him to the gun club, these trainer loads. And I actually. So I had 28 gauges of 4, 10, but I just. That 20 gauge, I would hold it in my hand and shoot it just one at a target and no recoil with these trainer loads. So I would hold the. The forend and let him shoot. He'd pull the trigger and. And I would kind of absorb whatever recall there was, and he'd break, you know, two out of five. And he was all excited and I just, I would show him like, okay, this is gun safety. And that progressed till Trey was, I guess 12. And then he shot a little bit. But Trey was right handed, left eye dominant, would not shoot left handed. And so he struggled and had some people say a few things and you know, as everybody does, you know, you don't shoot like your dad. And he just kind of put his stuff away and, and never really wanted to shoot again till he was like 18. We were in Ohio and he took a demo gun out, went out, broke 24. And he's like, dad, I'm pretty good. I said, son, you broke 24. Watch this. He went out the next round and ran him all the way down the last post. And, and I think he missed like three on the last post. And I said, talk a little too much smack. But I say to people, take your kids whatever age you feel comfortable, but always teach them number one rule, gun safety. You know, a gun is always a loaded gun, no matter what. Now, speaking of that, we've had some listeners, you know, comment on Stuff and. And ask questions about teaching. Okay. With people standing in front of the gun like I do when I teach a lesson, making sure that everything's lined up. You know, I've had some people, even in classes, like, can't do it. They just. I've had probably three or four over the last 20 years that just like, sorry, okay, I understand. But I always tell people the gun is always broke open, checked, or if it's an automatic, it's always left open. Nothing in the chamber always checked. And I watch them close it, and then I keep my eye on them. Their fingers never on the trigger as I. You know, they mount it. And I look down at, you know, with my eyes. So I just want to, you know, clarify that.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, that.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

That is.

[Zach Danini]

That is a hard situation. Right. And I've dealt with that with new shooters. People are picking out the gun the first time out, and I'm like, hey, I need to get on the dangerous side of this thing to be able to guide you into where you need to be. And they're like, oh, my God, I don't want to do that. Right, But. And I totally get it, you know, based on rule number one. But, you know, it's. It's just one of those things that you really have to be careful with, and you have to have an instructor that knows what he's doing at some level to make sure. Hey, we're double checking, triple checking. But at the end of the day, I want to make sure that their head's in the right spot, because until they get to that right spot and feel it, I've had people mouth the gun, and they're saying, oh, yeah, I'm on it. And they're six inches above it, and they're looking over here, and they're like, yeah, I can see the bead, and it's lined up. And I'm like, no, no, you can't, like, go down and get on it. And then they're like, oh, my God. That's what it's supposed to look like. Like, it's literally like a light bulb goes off. And until they see it for the first time, it's like. They did. It's like you invented fire, right? Like, it's like, oh, my God.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

This is.

[Zach Danini]

This is how it's supposed to be.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

And.

[Zach Danini]

And it seems to work a lot better once they, you know, get connected with it at some level. Oh, yeah.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, and. And speaking of that, you know, we've had listeners ask about beads. You know, there's tube sites out there. For people to try that are, you know, right left eye dominant, shooting right handed. You know, we, we've got a, A, a person coming on here. I think tomorrow that we're doing that uses a site for basically a one eyed shooter, but you can shoot with two eyes open. Zach, what do you use? Do you use the factory Craig off beads or do you choose?

[Zach Danini]

But I do, but you know, when I was down in Florida, I mounted Elena McCartney's gun and she had smaller beads on it. She said they were Chris Vendel type small beads and I really, I really liked them. I really think I might try to put smaller beads on because back when I shot my Ludic, I had that same type of small bead on the end of my one touch. It was a very, very, very, very small bead. And I feel like that small bead allowed me to be more precise with it, you know, so sometimes you, you mount that, you know, that big white one. It looks like there's a golf ball on the end of your gun. Right. You gotta, you gotta kind of look away from it a little bit, honestly. Like I, I know it's there, but I'm like looking way through it where if I get something that's really tight and really small, I feel like that can be a little bit more precise. I'm not using it, but I'm just seeing less of it coming into the shot.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, and that's, you know, like I've had people, you know, they ask, you know, the difference that the hive is, you know, the, the fluorescent sites and that I use the factory Craig off beads, but I look through the beads. That's what I've always done. So it size really don't matter. Now going into like the fluorescent ones, I've been teaching a lot of kids lately that they all have the high vis type fluorescent bead or tube site on there. I'll say, and I don't know why this is, but they, they always say, yep, I'm seeing it. Everything looks good. I think they can see any part of that green and they're like, oh yeah, it looks good. It like glows to them. But I've noticed with people, they want to really make sure is that they actually are stacking the beads or putting the center bead kind of in the middle or at the bottom versus just seeing the green or orange, whatever it might be fluorescent site. Because I've dealt with probably in the last two weeks, probably five or six kids that have those russet sites that I've had to raise the comb, at least, at least a washer, you know, and it's usually no, probably a 16th or maybe 3 16. I've had a couple of them that I'm like, yeah.

[Zach Danini]

So that, that site usually sits a little higher on the front because it's got that mounting bracket on it. So. So the problem is you get too far behind it and you could still see that bead technically because it's kind of. You see orange, but your eyes behind that rib. And then when you're going to the left hand side, I think especially your, your left eye starts taking over because you're pushing down and over and that you lose sight of the bird. You know, to, to, to kind of go into color. This is not a question, but this is just a follow up. You're a white beat guy. I'm a white beat guy. I know some people that have blocked out their beads. I know some people that have taken off their beads and I know some people like Daryl Handy that say gold bead. Right. Like go with a gold bead or go with something that doesn't catch your.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah.

[Zach Danini]

Catch your eye. Have you played with that a lot? Or have you thought of that a lot or, or.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

No, I really haven't. I'm not a fan of the, of the gold beater. Blackened beads out. Because then you. I, I feel some. For me, I feel like I'm in no man's land, you know, Reference. So let's even.

[Zach Danini]

You get zero reference when you go to that zone. Because I know there's some really good shooters that have just taken the beads off their gun completely.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yes.

[Zach Danini]

But I mean, at that point you don't have anything to make sure that you've mounted it correctly other than your feel. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not, you know, it's not that I'm aiming with the tip of the gun, but I, I like that reference point. I think the best way it's ever been described to me is when you're driving a car, you're not necessarily looking at the hood, but you know where it is.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's one thing is I, I try to tell people is, hey, you know, you, you've got to do what's best for you. Some people read books, this, that, blah, blah, you know, and, and all this guy said to do this.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

But you've got to try it. That's why the practice, you know, that's where you want to, anytime you want to try something, do it in practice and set out like, okay, I'm going to try this. So we're not worried about the score. We're not, we're just worrying about how's this look, how's it feel? That's how you, you grow in the sport and gain ground and get better is by doing that way versus I've had guys try stuff, they go out, they're like, I didn't work. I broke a 12 or I broke a 15. And I'm like, so were you worried more about the score or what were you worried about? And they're like, well, yeah, I wanted to break 25. I'm like, you're doing something totally different. You know, you got it.

[Zach Danini]

You got to build confidence into that. It's a new style. The same way if a golfer changes his swing, he might lose yards before he gains yards, but he's reworking new, new muscles and he's refiguring his plan. So I think it's good to change at some level. But then you have some people that just have never changed. Like, you know, your Dave Kelly's of the world that have shot one way for X amount of years and they just got really good at doing it and zero change, right. And there's nothing wrong with that, I don't think. But I do think it's harder for those people to find home when something goes bad. Like if they change a gun or if they, you know, if they have a comb break or if, if something happens, I feel like those, everything the same. People don't know how to say, okay, I can take this and maneuver this and make this work. Where if you've played with all those things, you can have some, you know, cognizance of, oh, I gotta do this, I gotta change this. I, I feel this way.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, no, absolutely, you know, so, so.

[Zach Danini]

Another question we had come in and I'm, I'm a full choke guy. I know you're a full choke guy, but I had a question come in. What would be a most open choke that you would recommend to shoot singles for a newer shooter? I mean, would you say, you know, modified or would you say, hey, stick that full in, learn how to shoot or what? What are your, what are your.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Here, here's what I tell people, okay? Brand new shooters. And I've worked with some people lately. I've been working with a lot of high school kids because they're in Nebraska, our high school programs going on. So I work with a lot of junior high, high school kids every day. I see some that are shooting like Mod. I've seen some that even shot ic. I would honestly say, if you want to start a kid out just to give him a little feel good, is you could throw a mod in, let him try to shoot some targets. But I believe them the lowest for singles.

[Zach Danini]

I'm on. Yeah.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

You know, and that's, you know, 30,000. Or in the Craig offline, in the Browning line, you're. You're looking at that's about 25,000. So. And I get this question all the time from some sporting guys. Why do you shoot full? Well, you know, you want the pattern's the pattern. The center's the center, but we're shooting at a target on edge, so to speak. You get some face. Okay. But you want to make sure the gun shoots where you're looking. If the gun shoots, you're looking. It don't matter. Ryan Glow, who we just had on, he shoots super full. So I would say, you know, that 25,000 mod 20. I mean, let them try it. But you want to do that. Stick them on posteries, set the trap on straightaways. Just throw some straightaways. Let them. Because confidence, as you know, is the biggest part of this game.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, it is. It's, you know, really confidence. And I think, you know, the reason why I'm a believer in tighter chokes is, yes, shooting where you're looking. But. But to reference, right, if I. If I clip one on the back or clip one on the front or clip one here and there, it tells me where I'm at. What I find is whenever I shot those more open chokes, I would get more star breaks. And with those star breaks, I wouldn't know if I was. If I was in the center or if I was on top or I was on the bottom, because with that 15, 20,000 choke, I was just breaking them all kind of.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Okay.

[Zach Danini]

You know, you're. You're hitting them, but they're. They're, you know, kind of breaking them into five or six pieces, right? Yeah. And it's like, okay, where'd I hit that thing?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, where you're in the center where you're on the edge. Yeah. No, and that's where I've shot full. I mean, I started out, I shot like a. Kind of a modest joke, I guess, years ago for singles. And then I had a handicap joke that was full. And one time I was 15 years old, I think, or 14, I think I was 15, and I broke 100 in singles, and it was using the dang full joke. And I went okay. And then, then I transitioned into a gun which was a brassy RS that had fixed chokes. And so it was 37,000, you know, that Tommy Wilkinson did, you know, and that's it. So, you know, with the Craig off, I leave my full choke in. I love their titanium chokes, you know, they're great. So I've always just used the factory chokes but full for singles and fold for handicap. But like I said, I had some sporting guys asked me the other day about why I shot a full and you know, God, I shoot a mon and then or a light mod then, you know, 25,000 for handicap from the 27. And I'm like, well, last year I shot 5,000 singles and missed 20, you know, and those 20 I missed wasn't because I had a full chance.

[Zach Danini]

You're 100% right. And I think, you know, looking at sporting clays, a lot of those targets you're shooting belly, right? Right. So when you're shooting a belly target and you're seeing all that face, I mean there's some on edge, but, but I mean when we shot him it was like, okay, this is a little bit different than what we're shooting. And if the target's, you know, hooking, you know, a shondell, something like that, you only need a few pellets to break it. And you're, you're, you're shooting with those more open patterns. I, I found that those guys don't generally shoot a lot of choke. But then I think it was Will Fennel or phenyl. How do you say it?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, fennel.

[Zach Danini]

Fennel. I mean, he said he shoots 30, 30 and he doesn't change it. And I'm like, well, that sounds like good advice to me. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I, I like to know when I hit the damn thing and, and how I'm hitting it. And he said that's enough for any of the farther shots in our game. But it's, you know, maybe over choked on your short shots, but he just likes that fixed barrel and.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

No, then there's nothing you have to worry about.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, I know. I kind of miss the fixed barrel, honestly. I mean, I do like the choke tubes, don't get me wrong. But, but I wouldn't mind having a fixed barrel Craig off where it's just like this is a full and I don't ever have to worry about putting grease on that choke tube. You know what I mean?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, when you leave the factory, choke tubes in and you use Those versus some other ones.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, I get that. So, so I got some equipment questions we've been emailing.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Sure.

[Zach Danini]

Equipment wise, what is the difference in your opinion between a custom stock and a factory stock? And why and when does someone need that?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, I mean, you've basically answered your own question, but custom fit to you. I mean, all factory stocks are made to generalize and try to fit everybody but a custom stock. I mean, you know, I use winig. You know. You use winig. It's just I try to tell people this. The pistol grip is one of the biggest things in a custom stock. If you can't hold that gun right, then you can't move it correctly. And, and I see some other custom stock makers out there doing stuff and I see things that are just the same for everybody across the board. And I'm like, that doesn't quite work, you know, because as you, as, you know, my hands are bigger than your hands.

[Zach Danini]

100% as Leo hands were two times your hands.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Exactly. So if a stock fits you correctly and you can move, you know, we're shooting trap right handed. We're moving here. You know, the left is just, is.

[Zach Danini]

Everything I feel is driven off of that backhand. I'm driving back there from my shoulder and I'm driving there. I'm not using my front hand as much. That's more for stability. But that backhand is kind of telling my gun where to go. Yeah, And I mean, like you said, when they say make stocks for everybody, I mean the average height of a person is like 5:10, 5:11 in America. So when they make those standard stocks, they're dialing them in for 5, 10, 5 11, 160 pound people. Right. And so, you know, when you take a, you know, you know, a smaller person than us, obviously, and you give them a gun right off the rack that might fit them. Okay. But when you start having, you know, big barrel chest or longer neck or you're taller, you're bigger, you know, that's where, you know, you're getting things that a standard stock is not getting. Like one. The twist, I mean, the twist I think is really important in the back of a stock. I think as you mentioned, the, you know, the, the palm swell, the grip of the gun, being able to drive it from the back, the distance from, from the palm swell to the trigger. Where I want to have the trigger for me is just ahead of my front pad where the break in the line is on, on my finger. Are you in the same spot, Rick?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

I mean, I'M basically right in the middle of my finger.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, it's pulling.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Not in, not in the crease.

[Zach Danini]

Almost in the middle. Past the crease.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, I'm just it, just right, just to the back of the middle is that when you pull. Boom. It's instant. And. And I worked with a kid here last week from Omaha that he had, I mean he had big hands. He's shooting a BT99 and he was around it. He would. Well, it was funny when he would hold like this, he was fine. But when he mounted the gun, he'd get it and then. And that's what he did. Well, you wrap and he was literally pulling in here.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

And I said, now watch this. I said if you touch here, boom. I said, now if you're back here, there's a delay. I said it takes longer. And he's like, oh. And then he switched and started hitting targets pretty good.

[Zach Danini]

So yeah, I think that's important because I have seen some people that have gotten in past that first crease where they're pulling the trigger and that that can cause them some long term problems.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah. Part of the deal with, you know, like the Craig Offs, the Brownings, Perazzi, you have to, it has to have an adjustable trigger. You have to purchase that where like the Browning comes, you can adjust it. The Craig offs could come, you got a long trigger, a short trigger, you know, to get that link set. But the custom stock, what I tell people all the time, you're buying, you know, a high end gun, a Craig off of Parazi, you know, a Kohler Bretta Premium, you know, any of those, you're spending the money, you know, a couple of thousand more. Three thousand are stock that absolutely fits you. You can't go wrong because every time you stick a shell in the gun, I mean that's your biggest cost.

[Zach Danini]

That's a cost. Yeah, the shell, the gas, the travel, the food, the. All that is the cost really. I mean, the equipment in itself, having the equipment be right I think is the least of it. And honestly, you know, it has some resale value.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Right.

[Zach Danini]

Like you're not.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Oh absolutely.

[Zach Danini]

You're not losing everything when you have that setup. So I think a good setup is important. But on the other end of it too, when we're talking to custom stocks, like as you're moving up, especially for younger people, like I remember having to adjust mine all the time because I was growing. Right. So thankfully with the winning, I had it where's.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Because you're Italian and you like to.

[Zach Danini]

Eat that's that's true. It happens. But you know, we had to change the length on it. We had to change things as I was growing. And you know, I think, you know, if you're coming up as a kid, if you can, you know, get a custom stock and you're fortunate enough to get one remade or redone every once in a while, then you know, great. Or add length to it or put a, you know, you know, length on the back of the pad is really the one thing that, that I needed most of the time when I was going through those years of change. But then once I was done growing, at least upward, not outward, I decided, okay, time to get one made. And, and that's the one I've been shooting this whole time. So.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, no, it does. It makes a huge difference, you know, and that's, that's what I try to tell people, you know, so I know.

[Zach Danini]

Next equipment question. The. And we're, you know, you shoot Fiocchi's, I shoot Remingtons. But we get into shells. The question about shells were what's the main difference between like a premium high end shell and like an economy shell, even if they're made by the same manufacturer?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Oh, I thought I was going to say something else, but I'll be honest, that's okay.

[Zach Danini]

I mean, what, what, what are the major differences? Do you think it's worth it to, for, for a shooter to have the high end line or you know, versus the low end line? When and where and what, what are your opinions on that quality?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

You know, usually the cheaper shells are made, can be made a lot faster. You know, like you said, I shoot yoki. I love, I shoot the shooting dynamic for singles and first shot of doubles, which is the lower end. I will say lower end shell, but it smokes a target harder than anything. I think that's got to do with maybe just a little bit. It's 1165, possibly speed. It patterns well in my gun. Then I shoot the White Rhino, which is the exact line, the high end line for handicap and second shot of doubles. And that's just a higher animony shot, you know, harder shot. You know, like I said, I leave all that to the, to the manufacturers. But I know personally I've been to Fiocchi in the, the, the factory loading shells, working on a machine loading shells, helping out and they don't run them as fast as other manufacturers do. I'll just say that, yeah, there's a little better quality control I think because sometimes in here right now there's a lot of people out there, they're just shooting whatever they can get their hands on. You know, I am seeing shells come back down and you know, as far as availability, you're, you're, they're getting more readily available. Yeah, I know. Like, you know, I'll give a shout out Guns Unlimited, you know, in Omaha, you know, Tommy Nichols, the owner, he does a lot for you shooting Tommy. I mean they just had a bunch of, a bunch of ammo come in, you know, for clay jargon, sports. So he's always got stuff and you know, people can call, you know, gu that are local or kind of in, they don't ship. So that makes a, you know, a big difference.

[Zach Danini]

But yeah, I think like you said, the biggest thing was and then I take away is the animal. Right. Like we're going from, from the lower end shell to the higher end shell, that higher end shells have got a harder shot. And I think when you're making those long distance shots and you want to actually smoke the target, I think it matters at distance, you know, 27 yard line. I've shot the, you know, the, you know, the three dram economy, you know, estates or the top guns or whatever. And I just don't feel like I get the quality of a break as if I'm putting in a Remington Nitro 27 or another high end shell that's got that, that, you know, that good shot and then, and then the press speed, just inconsistency. I know. You know, we've run chronographs before and, and shot the shells and then shot to shot timing has to do with how quick they run the press. If they're running that press, you know, fast, those shot charges of powder might be a little bit more inconsistent than if they're running a little bit slower. So I think if you're concerned with, you know, your speed, tempo between shot to shot. Yeah, you know, that's valuable.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, a lot of.

[Zach Danini]

I've always been kind of like you though. I've shot the cheaper shells for singles and doubles at the closer range and then I've shot the better shells from the 27. But then sometimes when I'm at the grand, like I'll definitely, I'll definitely shoot sts. When I'm at a, you know, a really important shoot for me. I just like to say, okay, you know, I, I want, I want to see that, that big. It's not that the gun clubs are bad, it's that, that big, that, that sts. I get a big black cloud versus with that gun club, you know, I smoke it but I don't turn it into.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

So then, so then why aren't you shooting the sts is all the time.

[Zach Danini]

You know, I shoot them a lot. I just shot them in Florida the whole week and I liked them, you know, I have them.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Well, the reason I, I think a.

[Zach Danini]

Lot of it is mental.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah. I mean like I said, I don't shoot the shooter dynamics because they're cheaper. I shoot them because I think it's the best single shell for me.

[Zach Danini]

For you. You know, like that speed of it.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

I like it, I've. I've shot it and I just. And now I'm not saying, you know, or our high end shells at fio, I've shot those too. But I just, for some reason I like the shooting dynamic. I think it's an awesome shell. It smokes targets, you know. Now like when I go shoot sporting clays, I shoot the little rhino 1 ounce 1250. Because shooting V test, that's all you can shoot. So I kind of just got into shooting one show but I think it's a lot of it's preference and I would just tell the listeners that find a show you like and use it for everything. Don't go and shoot the. Just some off the wall hunt load for practice and then you got your, your premium shells for the events. I say practice with what you compete.

[Zach Danini]

With and I agree with that. At least, at the very least the speed needs to be the same. Right? Like it's got to be comparable at some level. Like I've done reloads before and I match my reload speed to what my factory shell is and then you go from there. But if you're not shooting with that same speed that I think is a, is the most important part of it because I mean your shots based off of the speed of the shell. So. Yes, yes. So one thing we had from another, another shooter, he was interested in one. Do you feel nerves at your stage in the game? Like you get nervous like when you're about to run 400 straight or something like that. Like do you get nerves? And then, and then if you do, how do you calm those nerves? How do you combat them?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

I mean everybody should feel nerves. I was told that when I was 16 years old standing next to Brent Robinson, a legend in our game, you know, past hall of fame member in the ATL hall of fame or trap shooting hall of Fame. I asked him the same question. I was 16 shooting the Grand 17, excuse me, shooting the prelims to the grand with him. And he looked over at me, and he was from West Texas. And he said, let me tell you something. He said, if you don't feel butterfly eyes, if you don't get sweaty hands, if you don't, you know, feel sick to your stomach, he said, quit. It's over. And I was like. And what that meant is, you gotta just learn to control them. Everybody feels nerves. If someone tells you they ain't nervous, they're full of crap. Okay?

[Zach Danini]

So I've seen it in controlling them, what do you do? Is it breathing? Is it. Is it thought control? I mean, what are you trying to focus on?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Sign up for RM shooting clinics, and I'll give you that. No, I'm just kidding. So. Well, you know, it's kind of everything. Everybody's different. I mean, you know, you said, you know, you broke 400. Are you nervous? Let me tell you, I couldn't have a shell sitting here. I usually do have ammo all around the house here.

[Zach Danini]

Couldn't get the shelf.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

My office. I don't. But I was trying to, you know, if this is the brass on the show, I was trying to put the shell in like this backwards on post three on the last trap. And I'm like, what is wrong with my barrel? You know, and so. And it all just happens so fast. But you, you know, it's like, okay, calm down, put it in. But I always reflect back on things, so I'm a big, big component of. If you've done something, you reflect back on that, and that will get you through what you're currently doing. Okay? So, you know, when I say reflect back on doing, you know. Well, I never broke 400. Technically, no. But I had run 700 straight at the Grand American back in 2005.

[Zach Danini]

So you had something.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yeah, I did run two singles and 100 handicap, then 100 doubles. So technically the 400, blah, blah, blah. But I reverted back to. In that week there, vernal. I broke a hundred in the handicap. So I didn't revert back to, I'm going to break a 400. I went back to, hey, I broke 100. So I did this this week already. Let's just stay with it one at a time. And then when I got to post four, the nerves kind of reflected, like we'd already talked about. I got post five, going to five. Bill Martin gave me a fist bump, said, don't F this up. And, you know, we laughed and. And I was like, I got 375 in the bag, but bar was on the squad on a 399. So that gave me the little extra push of staying with it. So the nerves. Everybody's different. You got to learn to control in your own way. But if you can reflect back to doing something, people, when they. I mean, we got. Tyler's got some kids on his high school team, and one of them shot a really good round at the last competition, and then the next round was horrible because they were so nervous because they shot so good. I said, you reflect back and say, I've already done this. And they're like, oh, okay, 100. 100%.

[Zach Danini]

I think that that's. That's an important takeaway, looking at what you've already done, you know, now if you haven't done it, then you have to give yourself a little bit of grace. But I think for me, you know, breathing, getting the heart rate down, you know, getting deep breaths in through the nose and just pushing that down a little bit, and then also focusing on the process. So whenever. You know, whenever I'm like, okay, I haven't done this before, and I'm in no man's land. Well, I can go back and say, Well, I broke 25 on the last box, and I was doing it with my process. So you can always go back and break it down to the smaller thing. Like, okay, I got five on that last post. You can. You can make it to where you got to start small. But, you know, it could be. I broke a hard left already, so now I know how to break hard lefts. Or I broke a 5 or I broke a 10 or 15. But. But taking that little stuff and turning it into the bigger stuff, you know, I. But breathing, I mean, for me, and just the confidence and not changing anything also, I think slowing it down. And I don't know if you've ever slowed it. You probably have. Rick slowed it down. But, like, you know how you're going fast and you're like, oh, man. And you're like, when we.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

You mean like when we shoot together, and I got to look over at you, be like, slow down.

[Zach Danini]

Yeah, you want to get the score up on the board because you're 90 straight, and you're like, let's just get it over with. Right? But I think those last 10 shots are the ones you need to slow down and really say, okay, I'm here doing this. Not. Let's just, you know, squirt the score out, right?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

So you shoot the. The last ten like you shot the first ten.

[Zach Danini]

Bingo. Starting fresh.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Y. Y.

[Zach Danini]

So one thing before we get out of here. I know you went to acuis, and I just kind of wanted to follow back up with you and ask how did you guys end up. How did it go?

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

It went good. The college team did. Did well. You know, we were in Division 3 at HQI Nationals. And we shot. Start out shooting skeet and then skeet doubles, and then we shot sporting or excuse me, shot trap, then trap doubles and then sporting and super sporty and they finished. We won the Division 3 National Championship in trap and trap doubles. So. Which is. Is cool. And you know that, that worked good. And then we were, I think, second in skeet doubles and super sporting. And then we were third in skeet and then we were placed seventh in sporting. That kind of hurt us. But we finished third overall in Division 3, so we were third place for national championship. But we won two of them and did well. Happy for the kids. Cody I, who's a freshman on the team, he, he made the second team All American for ac so that was a big honor for him. And, and so we got a good team. I mean, good kids. Peyton shot well. All the kids, they, they kind of sucked it up. But the trap doubles, we won by like 22 targets or something. It was crazy, you know. So no good time. San Antonio is always a blast. I couldn't do it without my assistant coach, Bailey Gasling. She helps out tremendously. So Doan's doing good and I'm hoping to continue this success.

[Zach Danini]

Well, I love to hear that. Well, this has been fun. We didn't quite get through all the questions that they sent in, so I'm sure in a few more months we'll have to do another question answer episode. But, but we're excited to have, you know, Dusty on, you know.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Yep. Dusty Klein. We're having him on.

[Zach Danini]

So that's gonna be a good one. And he'll be coming up soon. And we've got some other speakers coming up that I think you guys are gonna really like. That being said, I do want to thank our show sponsors, Remington Winnick Shot Tracker and the one and only RM Shooting Clinics. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, gotta see Ricky. He's a good guy, you know. And if you need some finances, call Zach Nannini. That's for sure.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

That's right. That's right. That can help you out.

[Zach Danini]

So we're gonna be out of here and we'll catch you again next Friday. It's been a pleasure and we'll talk to you soon.

[Richard Marshall Jr.]

Rick, see bud. Bye.

[Zach Danini]

Thanks for tuning in to traffic talk.