Episode 031: Mental Game

Summary

Trap Talk From The Back Fence

Episode 031: Mental Game
Hosts: Zach Nannini & Ricky Marshall Jr.
Release Date: June 9, 2023

---

Introduction to the Episode

In Episode 031 of "Trap Talk From The Back Fence," hosts Zach Nannini and Ricky Marshall Jr. delve deep into the mental aspects of trapshooting, sharing personal experiences, strategies, and insights to help shooters enhance their performance under pressure. The episode also includes a debrief of the recent Missouri State Shoot, providing listeners with valuable takeaways and practical tips.

---

Debrief of the Missouri State Shoot

The conversation kicks off with a review of the Missouri State Shoot, highlighting the significant increase in attendance and favorable weather conditions that contributed to its success.

• Attendance Growth:
  • Zach mentions, “Last year we made a five by about 30 people. Barely. This year we had an additional... 250 over that number” (04:31).
• Weather Impact:
  • Zach notes, “We had fantastic weather the whole time” (05:00), which is crucial as the Missouri State Shoot is notorious for unpredictable weather.
• Youth Participation:
  • The shift in dates to accommodate high school graduations resulted in a substantial increase in youth participation: “We actually had 212 more kids on Saturday singles than we did the year before” (05:56).

Zach also discusses event scheduling and management, emphasizing the importance of maximizing pointable events to attract more participants and streamline the shoot’s operations.

---

Understanding the Mental Game in Trapshooting

The core of the episode revolves around the mental strategies essential for excelling in trapshooting. Both hosts share their approaches to maintaining focus, managing pressure, and developing a winning mindset.

Zach’s Mental Challenges and Overcoming Them

Zach opens up about his personal struggles during the state shoot:

• Pressure and Overthinking:
  • Zach explains, “When you're getting cautious... you look more at the beads... you get soft with your move” (14:40).
• Turning the Tide with Offensive Mindset:
  • After a rough start, Zach describes a pivotal shift: “I just attacked every single target... I went on full offensive” (17:16), which significantly improved his performance.

Ricky’s Approach to Staying Calm and Focused

Ricky provides his perspective on handling high-pressure situations:

• Mental Focus:
  • Ricky emphasizes, “You gotta be shooting one target at a time” (35:02), highlighting the importance of concentrating solely on the current target without being distracted by the overall score.
• Self-Talk Techniques:
  • He shares his method of positive self-talk: “I tell myself, see the target” (27:16), which helps in maintaining focus and reducing anxiety.

Key Strategies Discussed

1. One Target at a Time:
   Both hosts stress the importance of focusing on each target individually rather than the cumulative score. Ricky states, “It's always one target at a time” (31:26), ensuring shooters remain present and avoid getting overwhelmed.

2. Consistent Pre-Shot Routine:
   Establishing a consistent pre-shot routine is crucial for maintaining performance under pressure. Zach shares his step-by-step process:

   • Feet Positioning: “Step one are my feet... they don't move until you broke your five” (29:14).
   • Mounting the Gun: Ensuring the gun is properly mounted before proceeding: “Once I know my gun's mounted correctly, that's the next step” (29:45).

3. Positive Self-Talk and Visualization:
   Developing a positive internal dialogue aids in boosting confidence and performance. Zach advises, “You have to believe that” (40:05), while Ricky adds, “See the target” (24:42) as a mantra to stay focused.

4. Managing Physical Indicators of Stress:
   Recognizing and controlling physical signs of stress, such as increased heart rate and shaky hands, is essential. Ricky recalls advice from Britt Robinson: “If you don't get nervous, you don't get butterflies, your hands don't get sweaty, quit” (20:54).

---

Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

The hosts share personal stories that illustrate their mental strategies in action, providing relatable examples for listeners.

• Ricky’s Induction and Overcoming Nerves:
  Reflecting on his induction into the B.S. Hall of Fame, Ricky recounts, “My right foot, I was shaking so bad, my right leg was on the last five” (22:08), and how he overcame it by focusing on one target at a time.

• Zach’s Birthday Shoot and Paradigm Shift:
  Zach discusses a shoot that coincided with his birthday, leading to a critical mindset change: “I choose to attack every single target... I went on full offensive” (17:16), which turned the shoot around for him.

---

Strategies for Maintaining Consistency

Both hosts emphasize the importance of consistency in shooting routines to achieve reliable results.

• Process Over Outcome:
  Zach highlights, “Process really helps. Once I get the gun to here, I'm trying to mount that gun exactly the same as the last time” (25:46), underscoring the need to focus on the shooting process rather than the end result.

• Routine and Repetition:
  Ricky points out, “You always want... you have to stay with it” (42:20), advocating for repetitive practice to build muscle memory and confidence.

---

Encouraging Humility and Team Spirit

The hosts discuss the balance between confidence and humility in competitive shooting.

• Acknowledging Fellow Shooters:
  Even after winning events, both Zach and Ricky acknowledge the skills of their peers: “That doesn't take anything away from Ricky Marshall” (41:09), promoting a respectful and supportive shooting community.

• Team Support and Fun:
  Emphasizing the importance of camaraderie, Ricky states, “We just want to have a good time” (44:52), highlighting that maintaining a positive team environment is key to long-term success and enjoyment in the sport.

---

Audience Engagement and Closing Thoughts

In the episode's finale, the hosts encourage listeners to engage by sending in questions for future episodes, aiming to address specific concerns and provide tailored advice.

• Call for Listener Interaction:
  Ricky invites, “Send in those questions and we'll be more than happy to answer them” (46:30), fostering a community-driven approach to the podcast.

• Upcoming Events and Travel Plans:
  Zach mentions his attendance at the US Open, while Ricky continues his activities in Vernal, Utah, signaling more insightful discussions and diverse topics in future episodes.

---

Notable Quotes

• “You're not shooting against... you do your job, you can't lose” – Zach (16:28)
• “See the target” – Ricky (27:16)
• “One target at a time” – Ricky (31:26)
• “If you don't get nervous, you don't get butterflies” – Ricky (20:54)
• “You have to believe that” – Zach (40:05)

---

Conclusion

Episode 031 of "Trap Talk From The Back Fence" provides a comprehensive exploration of the mental strategies essential for trapshooting success. Through personal anecdotes, practical tips, and expert insights, hosts Zach Nannini and Ricky Marshall Jr. equip listeners with the tools to enhance their focus, manage pressure, and maintain consistency in their shooting performance. Whether you're a seasoned shooter or new to the sport, this episode offers valuable lessons to elevate your game.

---

Thank you for listening to "Trap Talk From The Back Fence." Stay tuned for more episodes packed with expert advice, engaging discussions, and the latest in trapshooting!

Transcript

[A]

Don't forget to follow us on our social media pages like share and subscribe this podcast is sponsored by the following Remington Made with pride in the USA Iconic American Impact Winig Custom gun stocks. Head on down for your custom fitting. Remember winners shoot Winning shot tracker. Like having a coach on your barrel. For more info go to takeaim tech.com Life is too short to miss. RM Shooting Clinics helping shooters from coast to coast. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. Zach Panini at Northwestern Mutual Trusted advice from someone you know we believe in putting people first. Other supporters for Trap Talk the Nevada State Trap Shooting association don't miss their 75th annual state shoot this October in Las Vegas. The NSTA puts on some great shoots and they're going big for this year's state. Go to nvtrap.com to check out their program and all other shoots as well. The Utah State Trap Shooting association would like to invite you to the 109th annual state shoot this June 21st to the 25th at the Vernal Rod and Gun Club. Vernal holds the Western grand among other great shoots and throws a world class target. RV camping and fun side events make this a state shoot that you don't want to miss. More [e-mail] welcome to another episode of Trap Talk. I'm Zach Nanini, your host and I've got co host Richard Marshall Jr. Coming to us live from Vernal, Utah. Thanks for, for being here today, Ricky.

[B]

Absolutely. Good to see you, Zach. Been a little.

[A]

It's been a minute. It's been a minute. I mean we get to see each other every week on this but, but we don't get to see each other in person. That's not as fun.

[B]

No, it is, but I missed the Missouri State shoot because I came out here early to Vernal to get some practice in.

[A]

So you know, Vernal is a great place. We just did an episode last week on Utah Trap Shooting association and they talked about how, you know, Vernal's holding the Western grand obviously this week and how they're going to hold the state shoot coming up in June. I believe the dates are the 21st through the 25th and they flip flop every, every year between Spanish Fort and, and Vernal. So that's, that's going to be a good time. Did.

[B]

Did, did you second? It's the 22nd through the 28 I believe.

[A]

Okay. So yeah, just spitballing off my brain. So it's better when you google and get that's why I've always got my fact checker Ricky Marshall. He just goes in and makes sure everything's right. So. So, Rick, you do anything fun in vernal so far or.

[B]

No, no, I mean, you know, just the usual hanging out, doing, shooting, a little bit of practice.

[A]

We left Friday.

[B]

That's why we missed the Missouri State shoot. We always come out early here and kind of have a little vacation and we were going to go fly fishing, but the, the rivers are pretty flooded, the snow melt extreme and sweet to get a chance to do that. But we just kind of hung out and you know, at the gun club here and shot some practice the last few days. Me and my. My boy Tyler. So. And then my buddy Dave, man, so what you know is here. He's been here about the same time we've all been shoot a little practice and doing a little teaching. So.

[A]

So. So today, you know, the reason we wanted to make this episode is we've gotten a lot of people emailing in asking for what they really love about trap talk. And the one thing we've been hearing a lot is, you know, they want some more technical information. They want more, you know, mental information as far as where the brain of Ricky Marshall and other top shooters is when. When they're shooting. So, you know, we're going to dive into that today. Along with that, you know, a little bit of a debrief of the Missouri State shoot just to kind of catch everybody up on. On how that went. But. But I think this will be some valuable information for the listeners today.

[B]

Yep. Yeah. And so with. With that, I know we had Missouri last week, so they had the. How was the attendance there? Was it up? Was.

[A]

Was up. So, you know, last year we made a five by about 30 people. Barely. This year we had an additional. I think it was 250 over that number. So I mean, really, you know, getting to the point where we could almost start to push up on a six if we. If we got some more attendees to stay for the doubles in the handicap. The issue is in Missouri we have a ton of youth teams come in on Saturday for the championship singles and that boosts up the numbers. Yeah, but then on Sunday they generally not all of them stay for the handicap and the doubles. And I think a lot of people, you know, want to get home. Now I will say that this year because we did it Memorial Day weekend, A lot of people stayed on Sunday because they didn't have to worry about trying to run home to work on Monday. So I mean, the shoot Attendance was, was up in general by a bit. We also had fantastic weather. And I know Missouri State shoot, is notorious that third week of May. Sometimes it's rainy, right. You're going to get a rainy day here and there. And we looked at the weather, you know, we didn't, we didn't adjust the state dates because of the weather. We adjusted it because of high school graduation and we felt we would get a lot more kids to come.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we did. So we, we actually had 212 more kids on Saturday singles than we did the year before. Just shifting at that one week and basically all of our other numbers held pretty strong. So. So obviously there's a lot to think about. It's hard to put it up against, you know, right up to Vernal, right up to these other things. But for the people that are going to the US Open, like myself and Dagan and a few others, it just goes Missouri US Open, which makes it a little bit of an easier traveling path.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But obviously if you're going to Vernal, you know, that week in between is going to make a big difference because it's, you know, going all the way to Missouri and then whipping back and going all the way back to Vernal is kind of a long drive especially for us over here in the, you know, Missouri, Nebraska area. So.

[B]

Well, you know, Justin will be here and oh, probably three hours. I mean he didn't have a problem.

[A]

Yeah, he. The truck driver. The truck driver goes everywhere.

[B]

You financial guys, you got to stay home and you know, do some different stuff. But now, so let's touch base a little bit. I know you shot fairly well. You won the double, you won the all around and you won the overall. And then I know I was giving you a little bit of crap on the phone for the doubles because Jordan and Anna and yourself were all tied in all three or been students of mine in the past. So I said, you know, need to take it easy on the young boy and especially a young lady. And you did like Kyle did when I was, you know, a little younger man, woman or child? It don't matter.

[A]

Well, you know, honest, honestly, I can say this.

[B]

Listen, don't blush. It's okay.

[A]

It was a very fun shoot off. They're both competitors. I'll definitely say that. What I can tell you is, is, you know, Anna was smoke balling the targets in a way that I'm like, I don't know if she's going to miss any of these things. We might be out here like A couple days. And then, you know, she, she got one that kind of went down a little and she ended up missing it and I broke the 20. But, but that being said, I could tell from both of them they had good fundamentals, they, they didn't seem nervous, they had great poise and they were hitting the centers of the targets really, really well. And you know, I think, you know, we could talk a little bit about this today, but timing, right? I mean, doubles, it's, when you get there, it doesn't always have to be the same time every time. But, but, but that in between shot, I think matters. I think a lot of people don't have a good tempo in between shots and I think that can help you. And both of them were, were smoke ball and the targets really, really hard. So yeah, it was, it was, it was a fun deal. And, and for me, Missouri was, and we'll talk about this in the mental topic today, but it was a mental grind for me because it's a 1300 target all around overall. And the reason why we do that is because it allows the most amount of points events in an overall week. So the ATA says you can have up to 1300 targets count right now in the current rules from Sunday backwards to the Wednesday, and every event counts for all American points. So Missouri throws three events a day. Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, and then 200 singles on Saturday and then 100 doubles and 100 handicap on Sunday. So, you know, looking at that, you could also shoot the preliminary on Monday and Tuesday, which is another 600 targets, but they don't count for points. So you know, looking at that, if you're building a state shoot and you want to attract, you know, all Americans to come out, I think it's important to have, you know, as many pointable events as possible. And, and I'm a big fan of getting rid of the 200 class singles on Thursday just because I don't love shooting 200 singles twice in a week. For me, I'd rather have singles handicapped doubles days than, you know, a 200 single hundred handicap day, which is what we've done in the past. And I think, I think that's a big, a big advancement for us. Next thing I think we're going to do is we're talking about making it where we shoot singles handicap doubles, and then the next morning throw doubles singles handicap or doubles handicap singles. That way we don't have to do the turn because I think that would save us a little bit of time too. But the new manager did a Fantastic job. The shoot ran very well. We had perfect weather the whole time and we were done every day by, you know, 5 5ish. So even with all those targets, we were able to, to push it through and throw a good program nice well.

[B]

In going into a little bit. So I know Anna shot really well. Jordan shot really well, which Jordan just stopped with Lindenwood. He graduated. Couldn't go to Lindenwood and shoot for them. I couldn't get him to come to Dome. He was locked in on, on Lindenwood. But I know you well. You also had one of your squad mates shot the highest handicap, I think on your squad all week. That was Elena McCarthy.

[A]

Yep, Elena had her on for the show too. And it was, she was, she was smoke balling the targets right next to me and I'm like, I'm just gonna hang on and do the best I can.

[B]

Well, and I know we talked all week while you were shooting because I know the, the state shoots really important to you, winning that overall. Okay. And I always give you a little bit crap every now and then that, you know, you're, you're kind of giving up on it. And I know you missed the last target one day in the singles for 99.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then you missed some late targets a couple other times. Could it cost you? You know, because I know at the end it was you and Hunter's rule. And I, I think you were up one, if I'm not mistaken, going into Sunday. And then you struggle a little bit doubles, so you gained a little bit more. And then your handicap, you do. What'd you break? 95 in the handicap? I think.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So, so, you know, to think about it and I think this segues into our topic perfectly then the mental game, you know, what was going on in my head. And I think this happens a lot and we have to catch ourselves is, you know, you start a week and I think it happens especially for me during like the state shoot and the Grand America. It doesn't really happen as much when I'm shooting other states because I don't care as much when I'm shooting an out of state shoot. I think the pressure is a little bit off because you're not expected to win. But I think in your state shoot there, you know, there's kind of a expectation that if you're one of the better shooters, you're going to try to win it. Right. So, so going into that overall, and it happened to be my birthday, Wednesday was my 32nd. And so we started the overall and the first day out, I shot 99, 91, 99, which wasn't bad. But I. I start thinking in terms of I need to get as much as I can to stay ahead of this overall. And I'm thinking overall on Wednesday and Thursday, when, honestly, I don't. You shouldn't even think overall until it's over. Right. Like. Like, for me, the best overalls that I've had were. Were when I go in and I shoot one event at a time, and I'm not thinking about trying to get ahead on something or trying to win something, but I'm just focusing on this event right here. And. And the next day, Thursday, I missed my hundred thou. And it's because I was like, okay, I'm gonna break 100 in the singles here, and then I'll have you know that's another hundred I could have, right? Well, I missed, missed, missed the last one out. And in the handicap, same thing happened. I didn't miss the last one out, but I took, like, a fingernail piece off the back end of the target because it was the last burden. I'm like, okay, finish this event with a 92. And I ended up with a 91. Right. I mean, you know, because of that. And then in the doubles, I went 49, and on the last. I went 49 again, and I went dead lost on the last pair. And it shows you that you could be, you know, shooting the high level, but when you get down to it, I was analyzing, and I was getting in my head, and I was saying, okay, we need to hit this last pair, so let's be more careful. Let's be more. Let's. Let's get cautious, right? And you want to say, okay, I want to get cautious, and I want to make sure everything's right. You know, you double check your mouth.

[B]

You. You.

[A]

You know, you. You make sure that you really look and try to place. And I think when you're getting cautious like that, two things happen. One, I think you look more at the beads because you're trying to aim that shot out.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Two, I think you get soft with your move. So instead of driving into the target like, you're attacking and you're on the offensive. On all those targets that I missed, my move over to the Target from Target 1 to Target 2 was really slow, and it was like I was watching the beat the whole way there, and I just kind of like, you know, slapped it, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're in the.

[B]

You're in the defense where. And going to your.

[A]

Your thought process.

[B]

Um, so I'll just give you a little rundown of when you get in an overall. It's okay. You start to shoot like we start tomorrow here, the overall, the Western Grand. And I'm gonna go out, I'm not gonna worry about each event, you know, of. Okay, I gotta break this. For the overall, I go out and you shoot every target one at a time at the end of the shoe. Oh, hey, I'm ahead now. Saying it that way, you, you always see it. You can look at it online, you can look at it up there, people talk about it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I mean, there's been times out here, like one year out here when I broke the four by four, I also broke at nine. 91 out of a thousand in the overall. Now that being said, I only won the overall by a few targets and. Cause there was other people here that was right up there with. So I don't go and worry about. You're shooting against yourself. That's the biggest thing that shooters got to realize is you're not shooting against. When we're shooting together, I mean, yes, we're shooting against each other, but if I do my job, all you can.

[A]

Do is time it 100%. If you don't miss, you can't lose. And I think, you know, going back to the mental, you know, where are you at? Where are you thinking? I think. And Dave Kelly used to tell me this all the time. He used to say, zach, I don't work scores, I work posts or I look work targets, you know, maybe. And you make it smaller right, where you can take a bite of it. So for me in singles and doubles, I'm usually like thinking, okay, I want to get through this post. I want to get a 5 or a 10 here in handicap. I am thinking single target because you really need to focus on. I mean, I think it requires a little bit more mental focus and look point to hit the target distance. That's how I feel. But maybe I'm. Maybe I'm wrong on that, Rick. But.

[B]

But everybody's different.

[A]

But focusing on the process and, and I learned some things, you know, in Saturday. And actually I wasn't ahead going into Sunday. I was actually behind three birds. So me and Hunter were tied. Me and Hunter were tied going into Saturday singles. But I went out there and I shot a 96 in the first singles. And then I broke a hundred. And what I had was a paradigm shift of my brain. So in the first hundred I went out there and I was like, okay, you Know, let's be careful. Let's, you know, let's, let's make this work, you know, hold the, you know, put a score up today, and then you, you know, move on into the next event. And you got a good overall, good all around, good everything. And I shot a 23, missed the first one out and a 24 the next box. And then I went 25, 24. And when I went to my trailer, I just sat there and I said, okay, like, you can, like, slowly try to precisely miss a bunch more targets than that event, or you can go out and just shoot as hard as you can and look at the target and attack and whatever happens, happens. And I just, literally, for the back 300 targets, from there on out, I attacked every single target out of the house. I didn't, Yep. I didn't try to say, okay, I'm gonna finish my score now and I'm gonna slow down. And, you know, I, I, I got offensive. I broke the back hundred. And then, you know, the other targets that I missed, 98, 95, and 98, and doubles, 95 and handicap, I just missed them. Right. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, anything that I was doing mentally, it was just, okay, problem. Right. But on Sunday, I did not think once about overall and all around because I knew Hunter was ahead by three. So I was going to need to win events or come close to winning events to be able to make up that kind of ground. And I was thankful that it worked out. But, but if I would have thought to myself, okay, hold this score together, you know, maybe the doubles would have been a 96 or a 95 or 97. I mean, don't know, really. No, I, I was on full offensive. So for you, Rick, I mean, obviously you've got to get nervous at some point in time. I mean, I know I get nervous. Yeah. What, what, what, what are you doing when you're at the Grand America and you're closing out on a ring for the overall, the all around, the championship, the, the clay target? Like, what are you.

[B]

Well, what's going on? I've never won that. I haven't won that event yet. I'd like to, even though.

[A]

But, but you broke. You broke it, right? You broke. So, so, so knowing that you run.

[B]

Her up four or five times.

[A]

So going into those high pressure situations, because I think for me, I shoot better when it's not as important. Like if I'm going to a shoot, that doesn't matter, I'll shoot great versus if I go to the Grand. I'm thinking Grand Ring, right?

[B]

Yeah, well, and that's, that's what a lot of people make. Even, even top shooters do. Now. Talk about getting nervous. As a young kid, you know, I was fortunate. I got to shoot with Frank Hoppy. He was my coaching mentor, probably one of the greatest instructors of all time, in my opinion. And, you know, I traveled with Frank for years, all the way up till, you know, he passed away even. And then I was also fortunate as, you know, shoot a lot with Leo, travel with him too, with Frank, but. And meet other people. Now going back, and I think we touched base on this in one of the episodes, but Britt Robinson, I was fortunate. I got to shoot with Brit when I was 17 years old with the Grand American. And Brit could shoot a right angle off the 27 yard line like 5ft.

[A]

Out of the house.

[B]

It was just amazing. Yeah, I was just like, whoa. And that year I shot the limbs. But that year at the grand, the main week, he won the Grand American Handicap. So it's kind of cool, you know, I went up to him, I was like, Mr. Robinson, you know, he's like, we shot together. You can call me Brit. But, you know, I congratulated him and he's like, oh, thank you so much. You know. But I asked Brett, I said, you know, you get nervous, blah, blah, blah. Or I said, actually back this up. I said, you don't get nervous, do you? And he looked at me dead in the eyes, Zach, and he said, son, let me tell you, if you don't get nervous, you don't get butterflies, your hands don't get sweaty, quit. And I said, what? And he goes, you got to learn control that. So that's the one thing I'll get out there and I'll get and shoot offs or when I shoot an event. Now, when I first started, I would get real nervous at times, especially breaking like a big handicap score. My first hundred straight I broke was June 28th of 1998. So I was inducted in Bresky hall of Fame that night. That's why I know that date. I could have kick started a Harley. My right foot, I was shaking so bad, my right leg was on the last five.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was just like, now how I got through that. Brit told me that he broke four or five 99s and missed the last target. And I just kept telling myself, one target at a time. I got. And I told myself, don't do what Brit did. And I broke the target, broke my a hundred. Now Breaking the second one, the third one, all the way up, blah, blah, blah. You still get nervous. You control it when I break, you know, last year at the Cardinal classic.

[A]

I had.

[B]

Three 99s I think in the handicaps there was I nervous on stone. Absolutely. But it's controlling it.

[A]

And that's when we talk about that, controlling. When you're getting to the point where you're like, okay, I'm 90 straight. I've got 10 to go for a 99 or 100 in a handicap. This is five, $10,000 on the line and everything else. What are, are, is it, is it breathing? Is it talking to yourself? Is it.

[B]

I tell, I tell myself mama needs a new pair of shoes.

[A]

Need biscuit money.

[B]

Mama need to eat, you know, and I eat pretty well. But no, I, you know, it's a self talk. It's, you know, like here, Vernal. One of my favorite clubs of all time. Not just because I did break the four by four here, but it's a great time out here, as you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, our good buddy Dave Kelly supposed to be here. Hopefully he'll show up.

[A]

He'll be there.

[B]

Yeah. But it's a fun time, you know. Jerry Parson here. We're going to be playing some hearts today probably, but come out here. And when I broke that like that 400, I would, I talk myself every target, one target at a time. Not thinking about breaking 400, but one target at a time. When I'm breaking a hundred straight. Singles, singles, you're more you, you kind of let your mind go numb. You just, okay, you gotta see the target, but pay attention, you know, Watch what the targets do. And that's what a lot of people don't do. Like yesterday we're practicing, it was pretty windy, you know, and, and I hadn't shot any doubles since the autumn. Well, trap, you know, we've been shooting, shot sporting plays in Dubai. I've shot a lot of sporting, not much trap so far. And I just went out, I'm like, shoot them where they're at. That's how you should shoot as, you know, so you, you go in and everybody's mind works different. So it doesn't always work for everybody. But I just always, I use a catchphrase. See the target. I get that gun just coming up, you know, and just getting ready to mount. I tell myself, see the target. So what's the last thing in my head? See the target.

[A]

And, and I also use a catchphrase. See the target. I, I remember Sean Holly Told me a long, long time ago, he said, you know, his catchphrase at the time, I think he said was, and I might be wrong, but a paraphrasing. Head on the stock, eyes on the rock. So, you know, just, just for me, I have found process really helps. So, like, if you look at someone like Pat Lamont, I mean, his whole thing is built on processes, right? Like, everything is lasered to the same point where if he misses one of those steps, he starts over at the front. You know, for me, once I get the gun to here, I'm trying to mount that gun exactly the same as the last time and get my eyes in exactly the same spot. And so, so I think, you know, your, your, your body's saying, hey, don't miss. You're going to win this, that and the other thing. But what I think I'm trying to focus on is just doing the same action that I've done the 95 shots.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the more that I get into focusing on, you know, okay, the gun's exactly where it was last time, you know, on my shoulder. It's exactly where it was last time on the top of the house. My eyes are still and ready, look for the target, call, pull, and then the target comes out. And then I'm focusing on my energy on the bird versus, you know, trying to get the gun there. And I think that's where people mess up too, is they have. Wherever the gun is, they're always trying to get the gun to the target. And when you're trying to get to the end of the target, you're looking at the gun. You're, you're, you're, you know, you. When we talk about getting cautious, you're physically saying, I gotta go. I got a hard left. I got a straightaway. Okay, make sure the gun gets there. Well, then you're looking at that end of the gun and you're taking it to the target.

[B]

Be checking.

[A]

You're be checking. And I always know where the gun is in the reference behind. But if my eyes stay on the target, I'll know when the gun gets there. Because the feel more than, more than looking, more than driving it with my eyes, I'm driving it with a feeling, you know, I'm looking at the bird.

[B]

Well, and elaborate. So, like, you do it that way. For me, I look through the beads. Okay. And so. And I'm on the house. The turret comes out. I drive right through it. Excuse me. So I'm all the beads, I always see them in my periphery.

[A]

They're over there, you're looking through. And I mean, both of us, both of us are stacked, figure eight looking. I mean, and I think in singles and doubles I might look a little bit higher above the gun. And then in handicap, I'm looking a little lower above the gun. I mean, never, never more than, you know, a half inch or an inch, but, but, you know, I. You got a lot of movement. So I, I feel like if I'm down low on the house, if I move my eyes up a little bit, I could see that target and then I'm making a move where at 27, if I have my eyes up too high, that target's got to fly a whole lot of distance before it gets to where my eyes are. And I want to catch it as soon as possible. I think the more distance the shot, the quicker you're trying to look at the bird or see the bird leave the house at least.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah, it's all. Everybody's different. You always want. I always tell people you're doing the same thing over and over and it's correct, you're going to get the same result, which is breaking a target, you know, and that's the one thing where a lot of people, they change up their routine, you know, or they don't have a routine or they don't have that pre shot routine. And mine's the same every time. If you do it, it's just repetition.

[A]

That mentality of that pre shot routine. I mean, I mean, for the people that haven't talked about it or know about it, the new shooters, you know, for, for me, it's step one are my feet. Right? Right. So starting from the feet up. And you've always told me this, Rick, you've said, zach, start from the feet up. So step one, get your feet where they need to be on that particular post. And once they're there, guess what? They don't move until you broke your five. Now, now if I break that first target and I feel something wrong, I'm going to the left and I'm short and I, then I can make an adjustment there.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But, you know, a little quarter turn one way or the other to get where I need to be. But, but that's something that you get from feeling otherwise. I'm not changing my feet every single post. And I've seen people, you know, you know, basically shoot and then change their feet and then get back in position and then change that and it's, it's, you really want to hold it for the shots. If you can? Yeah. From there, once my feet are good, then it's, you know, for me, I put the shell in the gun a certain way. I mean, I always have the Remington level, so I like, look down.

[B]

Now. One question. I heard you, you went away from the.

[A]

It's gone.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just, I mean, now, now, now I replaced it with the shell head. So, so, so I gotta have something, right? But to occupy my mind, I just always make sure the shells are like Remington and perfectly aligned when I step, when I put them in the gun. So, so that's, on doing that, that's, you know, the next kind of quirky thing I do. I usually wipe my hands on my towel every time. And then when it's my turn, I start mounting the gun. And then I'm going up to the face down on the house. And then from there, once I know, okay, my gun's mounted correctly, that's the next step. Because if it's not, if it's not mounted correctly, I start over. Right? We unmount the gun. And I've seen you do it, Rick, where, like I don't hit the pocket. Let's redo that. And then right before you call pull, it's the checking of the eyes. Where are our eyes in relationship? What's our vision? Are we soft focus, hard focus? You know, where. Around the gun based on the light conditions and then, and then calling pull. And then from the time I call pull, the only thing I'm thinking about is where is the bird? I mean, I, I, I really feel like if you put all of your energy on looking at the target at that point in time, good things are gonna happen and less energy on where's my gun? Right.

[B]

Okay. So with, you put all your energy on one target. So, and that's the correct thing to do. You know, you don't wanna look five targets ahead or 10 targets ahead or 20 targets ahead. You know, you wanna be each target you can't look at.

[A]

One at a time happen.

[B]

Yeah, it's always one at a time. And that's my biggest thing I've told everybody is one target at a time.

[A]

Now, Dave Kelly used to tell me this and, and, and, and, and I don't know if you agree with this or not. I feel this happens to me a lot. But we talk about slowing down the moment and, and that was Dave's, not words, not mine. But, you know, let's say you're, you're going in the last five of the, the Grand America Handicap and you're straight or something. Like that. A lot of times your heart rate is going up and up and up and up, and it's almost like your speed is going up and up. You're either gonna. One of two ways you're gonna go. You're gonna go really, really slow and really, really careful and mess it up, or you're gonna go the other end of the extreme where you're just revving up, revving up, revving up, revving up. You're mounting the gun faster, you're trying to get through the last five shots, and you're trying to finish. Dave always used to tell me, you know, Zach, you want to slow down and enjoy the minute and just kind of finish those with poise. You want to do them the same way you did before. But, you know, if you take. If you. If you've got a negative thought, if you're like, oh, man, I'm going to miss this one, or, oh, you know, crap, don't screw this up. You have to. I. I feel like you have to deal with that before you throw the gun up. Do you agree?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. It's one target at a time. You gotta be smooth. You, you. You go. Everything should be the same at the end as it was at the beginning. You know, you don't try to revert away or change anything. When you start changing things, that's when it gets bad.

[A]

And that's. That's the mental game, because people talk about, well, what's the mental game? Well, the mental game is keeping it consistent all the way through the event. Right. I mean, it's. It's not changing anything if it's working. And I think, you know, people get nervous, and then they start, you know, without even recognizing that, they go either too fast or they go too slow. But that's not what got them there, right?

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. It's one target at a dime. You know, think about that target and that target only. Just be smooth. That's the biggest thing people don't do, is they're not smooth. You know, they. They get down to the end and they're trying to, like, they, they want it to be over before it's over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, or like I did when.

[A]

I missed that hundred target and signals the other day. I thought it was done before it was done. I was. I was already kind of checking myself off the line. Okay, write down another hundred on the sheet. And it don't work that way. You've got to. You've got to run every target down to get it. And when you said shoot Every one target. That reminded me something that, you know, I heard Leo say one time and he, I said, you know Leo, you know, how do you shoot the double so good? And he said, well, I shoot the first one first and the second one second. And I'm like, I. At the time I thought he was just kind of, you know, being a smart alec, you know, I didn't. I. The first one, first, second, one second. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. But then over time, I started thinking about it and what he meant was he shoots the first target with 100% energy before he looks at the second target. He's not even thinking about that second target until after he's pulled the trigger. And that's something that I've adopted. And I think, you know, you've taught me well, Rick, is, is people. I think a lot of times when people shoot pairs, they're thinking about the second target as they're shooting the first target. They're wanting to, they're they're either looking at it or they're trying to rush the first one to get to the second one quicker. Well, if you can't, if you can't line up and hit that first one, I mean, how are you going to hit the pair? Right?

[B]

Yep, exactly. You know, that's the one thing is you gotta, it's one target of time, no matter if it's singles handicap or double. And, and that's for our listeners out there, you know, when you're going to shoot, you know, haven't broken 25 straight or 50 straight or whatever, you know, in order to break a 25 straight, one target at a time, the first one, then the second one, then the third one, then the fourth, fifth. So now get to 10, 15 straight. You're like, I'm gonna break 25. That's fine to tell yourself that, but you gotta keep that in the back of the mind.

[A]

You, well, and let that at the front. If you haven't done it yet, you're probably gonna mess it up a few times, right?

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

But, but, but that's part of it. And messing it up is, is gonna get you through it next time. One thing that helped me a lot when I was newer is I always said, well, the odds are I could probably miss the last one, so I need to run the first 24. So I give myself a chance to run a 25, right. Like, I used to play games with myself that way and say, well, I might, you know, especially in handicaps because I wanted punches And I need to get a 96 to punch today. I better off just breaking the first 96 birds. Then I got, then I got my punch, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then from there out I can miss four out and still get it. But that mentality when I did that, you know, I say, hey, I could, you know, if I want to hit a 98 handicap, I want to hit the first 98 because at least then I got it. And then I can build from there. And then once you get to that target, you've got to shift that mindset. Okay, those are already broken. Now just break this one more. You know, just break this one more to put the icing on the cake. And I feel that that's, that's a helpful thought sometimes also.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. It's like I said, everybody's different and that's. Everybody's got to kind of find their own metal. There's some people out there that, you know, they, they really have to work hard at it. There's some that don't. You know, as a kid growing up shooting, you know, if I wanted to continue to shoot, I had to win, you know, so it was one of those I wanted to shoot. So what are you going to do? You want to win?

[A]

That makes sense. That makes all the sense in the world, you know, and it is, it is different based on what you got either financially going or for points or for whatever reason, you know, parent might be like, hey, you got to win these to get to the next shooter or whatever. But everybody's got their own difficulties and their own crosses to bear in this game. And everybody gets nervous at different levels.

[B]

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. And that, you just gotta work with yourself. And, and that self talk, that's one of the things is, you know, people are like, what are you doing out there? As we shoot together, we joke around in between shots sometimes. And yeah, you know, the only time you gotta be concentrating 100 is when it's your shot.

[A]

But, and, and I think there's things that you can do like breathing techniques and positive self talk. Like, like, you know, I've heard people walk to the line and they're, you know, oh crap, we gotta shoot handicap or oh crap, we gotta shoot singles or oh crap, we gotta shoot doubles. Right? And people wonder, okay, well, what's positive? What, what's mental? You know, positive mental thinking. Well, you have to, you have to be excited to go to every event you shoot. That's step one, right? If you're not going out there and saying, I'm excited to Shoot these singles, you're already dead. If it's raining and you're saying, oh man, it's going to be a bad day because I don't want to get my gun wet, you're going to have a bad day. I mean, when I see the rain, I know Rick's the same way. I think, great, less splits in the Lewis. Let's go get this right. Let's go. You know, if we got a windy day, I say I can win this thing without needing to break a hundred probably. Let's go out there and put this on. And you shift it into a positive.

[B]

And now going with what you're saying right there. So you already put a negative thought in your head of I can go win this without breaking 100.

[A]

Okay, see that's where, that's next level right there.

[B]

Where me, I go, oh, when did. I'm gonna go break a hundred? And they're gonna be like, whoa, that's what you want to do. You want to. Don't talk yourself. You never want to put any, any little negative thought. Gives our thing. And a lot of my students out there that listen, know when I say you've got the angel on one shoulder and you got the devil on the other, your angels, your conscious mind, the devil's your subconscious mind. That's your enemy in this game is your subconscious mind. That's the one that's telling you, oh, you're going to get a left angle and you're going to miss a hundred percent.

[A]

So and, and you've got to take a second to recognize that those are just thoughts and then revert back to the game.

[B]

Well, if you correct those thoughts. So with, with the angel, the conscious mind of going, oh, throw me a left angle, I'm going to smoke it, or straightaway or right angle, I'm going to miss side. Oh, no, throw me those. Throw me a hundred of them and I'll smoke everyone. Guess what? That's all positive talk.

[A]

And you'll, you'll break more target a hundred percent. You have to be in your own mind telling yourself you're going to win. You're going to do well, you're going to hit the target. You're going to, you have to believe that. And if you don't believe that, then things are going to suffer now to, to kind of go down that road because the last thing I want is to create, you know, a thousand trap shooters that are all, you know, cocky as crap, walking around the gun club like at the end of the day, like you have to believe. But I also think you have to have humbleness because you're, you're not, you know, you can't just walk in you with your buddies and be like, oh, I'm going to kick all your guys butts today and expect to have, you know, your friends. Right. I mean it's, it's, it's. I think you got to know your audience, but I feel like some people, you know, they're really good at that positive self talk, but then they're really bad at the, you know, at the crap talking. Right. They're just always, always saying something to other people, trying to get in other people's heads, trying to mess with other people. And, and the reality about, are we.

[B]

Talking about Rich Bullard here or.

[A]

With our squad? It's encouraged, right? Like we love it. But, but, but for, you know, I'd say especially for younger shooters, you know, they might be doing really well, but then, you know, you have to understand that trap shooting is a long journey. It's a long road. And just because you're doing well right now, there's bumps, there's peaks and valleys, right? So I have always thought to myself, you know, hey, I might have been the winner today, but that doesn't take anything away from Ricky Marshall. Right. Like, or, or like and, and you've probably had it where, you know, you had a day where you, you know, obviously beat Leo Harrison. That doesn't take anything away from Leo Harrison. That doesn't say Ricky Marshall is better than Leo Harrison now like, just because you and I think people get that in their head.

[B]

Yeah. No, and that's one of the deals, you know, I was fortunate. Like I said before, shot a lot with Frank, A lot with Frank, shot a lot with Leo. I've always had the attitude as, you know, if you're high on the squad, you got a chance to win the event.

[A]

Bingo.

[B]

You know, and that was kind of, you know, Frank and Leo had always taught me, you know, you stay with it. We, we got a good squad rolling. We might win these events here. And I know, you know, we just had Memorial Day, you know, yesterday and, and you know, shout out to all our, our soldiers, present and past, you know, thanks for their service, you know, so we could do what we can do. But someone shared a post of that I posted several years ago of myself and Leo on the COVID at the Great Lakes Grand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and you know, that shoot, Leo and I won every championship event at that shoot. Leo broke a hundred in the handicap in a Torrential downpour. Now I broke like a 91. We ended up tied in the overall.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

I was leading. I was leading. We were tied in the overall. You know, I won the doubles outright end up, because that was the last event that year, and it was quite funny. Leo, we were supposed to shoot off. A bad storm came in, and Leo had to go buy shoes. Carla wanted to go buy shoes. Oh, they had to leave. You know, I never would flip for an overall. I always wanted to shoot those off. But someone said, man, you beat Leo. Well, we tied, you know. Well, you. You know, about. Yeah, I mean, does that make me better than. Absolutely not now for that event. Yeah, I won. At the end of the day, you know, we're all the same. Everybody puts their pants on one leg at a time. Some might try to jump in them twice, you know, two legs, you know, but you just. It's the difference of what I tell people is where I'm at compared to just an average shooter is I put a lot of time in it. And what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it.

[A]

You know, the more time, the. The more repetitions, the more situations. Like, you talked about trying to be first on your squad. Okay, who am I shooting with? Am I shooting with better people? Right. So you start, you start. You start working on all these little things. No, and they, they can all carry you up a little bit here and there at some level. And.

[B]

Yeah, and you know, the squads we shoot with now, I'll shoot with anybody. As long as you shoot with a sure turn. I don't care. You know, I just want to have a good time, you know, having fun. That's my number one rule.

[A]

That's why I always make the squad. I'm filler material.

[B]

Now. We have a great time. We do. All of us, I mean, enjoy each other's company. We shoot good, we have a good time. If we shoot bad, what do we do?

[A]

We have fun, have dinner, have you.

[B]

Drink, play some cards, whatever. There's always another event.

[A]

A hundred percent. So. So I'm glad we got to talk about this stuff today. I felt like it was a good decompression of the last week's events and kind of getting it in my mind, because, I mean, now moving forward, what do we focus on to do better? Because I. I think everyone's trying to do a little bit better, regardless of what level they're at. And that's one thing that I've seen is as people that listen to our podcast, most of Them are looking for little tidbits of gold that they can take out there and they can integrate into their game. So hopefully there was a couple little sprinkles that we could give you today that you could utilize. Is there anything else we're missing, Ricky? Is there anything.

[B]

No, I think for this episode, I think we're good. I will say to our listeners out there, send in some more questions. If there's specific questions, send them in. We can do an episode on like, you know, Larry from wherever said this, Jim from Ask this question. We're more than happy to do that and, and try to help out for the. I know I. I've been getting a lot of calls from people to do lessons and stuff, and I need to return some calls. I've been super busy with teaching. I haven't even had a chance to shoot. So send in those questions and we'll be more than happy to answer them in any way we can.

[A]

Yeah, the, the Facebook page, Instagram page, we check that pretty regularly. You know, I'm usually trying to respond to everything, either me or Chris and, and stay on top of it. And we appreciate everyone listening and, and staying supportive and, and loving the show as much as they do. So far, we've heard a lot of good feedback. So that being said, I'm going to the US Open this week.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Ricky's in Vernal, Utah. Then we've got some more traveling. A lot of shooting ahead in the summer, so we're gonna keep things interesting with some different. Different topics and some different guests and get us through. So I appreciate your time today, Ricky, and I wish you a great shoot at Vernal, and we will see you soon. Before I get out of here, I want to thank our sponsors, Remington Winnig Stock Works, Shot Tracker RM Shooting Clinics, the one and only. Thanks for the help on those doubles that helped me out in Missouri.

[B]

And.

[A]

And you're one and only. Zach Nanini, your host. If you need a financial advisor, I'm your guy. So hope you have a great week. Rick, thanks for doing this.

[B]

Absolutely. But you too. Good luck at the US Open.

[A]

Bye. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to Trap Talk.