← Trap Talk From The Back Fence
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- [00:06]
Zach Nanini
Don't forget to follow us on our social media pages like share and subscribe this podcast is sponsored by the following Remington Made with pride in the USA Iconic American Impact Winig Custom gun stocks. Head on down for your custom fitting. Remember winners shoot Winning shot tracker like having a coach on your barrel. For more info go to takeaim tech.com Life is too short to miss. RM Shooting Clinics helping shooters from coast to coast. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. Zach Danini at Northwestern Mutual Trusted advice from someone you know. We believe in putting people first. Other supporters for TRAP Talk the Nevada State Trap Shooting association don't miss their 75th annual state shoot this October in Las Vegas. The NSTA puts on some great shoots and they're going big for this year's state. Go to nvtrap.com to check out their program and all other shoots as well. The Utah State Trap Shooting association would like to invite you to the 109th annual state shoot this June 21st to the 25th at the Vernal Rod and Gun Club. Vernal holds the Western grand among other great shoots and throws a world class target. RV camping and fun side events make this a state shoot that you don't want to miss. More info@utahtrap.com welcome to another episode of Trap Talk. I'm your host Zach Nanini and I've got my co Host Richard Marshall Jr. Today joining me from Wisconsin. Welcome to the show, Rick.
- [01:49]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Thanks buddy. How you doing?
- [01:51]
Zach Nanini
How's it going down there?
- [01:53]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Oh, you know, another day. They start prelim days today. So we're going to shoot some practice or actually Tyler's going to shoot some practice a little bit. I might shoot the doubles event. We'll see. That's how much time I got a lot of stuff going on.
- [02:08]
Zach Nanini
Well, I know, you know, this is pretty much what you do full time. So you're always shooting, you're always doing lessons, you're always, you know, working gun deals and stuff. And it's just like it's got to be tiring in the middle of the summertime to go from shoot to shoot to shoot to shoot and never really have a break because you're, you know, you're always on the road. I mean, I go back to work a little while, but you're always on the road.
- [02:29]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah, I mean it is nice to, to have a little bit of a break every now and then, but we were on a break. We shot PA in Ohio and then came home and we're home about two weeks. So over the, the 4th of July which is nice kind of spend nice work with some family friends and, and big fireworks show and so it was nice to kind of, you know, decompress now get back into the shooting mode.
- [02:56]
Zach Nanini
So right now it's going to go Wisconsin this week, Iowa next week and then do you have anything before the grand or are you going to go right into the ground after that?
- [03:04]
Richard Marshall Jr.
All go. We'll be home about four days I think it is and then we'll head to the, the grand for the A.
- [03:15]
Zach Nanini
Okay.
- [03:16]
Richard Marshall Jr.
So I'll be down there for that. And yeah, it's just a, a little three to four day break.
- [03:23]
Zach Nanini
Hey, nothing wrong with that. I'm sure, I'm sure we'll have some clinic. Clinic lesson calls on those days too. So it won't even be that much of a break.
- [03:29]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Right. Yeah, I've got quite a few people that are want lessons. It's just tough to get back to everybody. So I'm going to do some stuff in the grand there during the aim and, and then there's an off day this year. I don't know if you knew that on Tuesday they're not, they're not doing.
- [03:47]
Zach Nanini
Yeah.
- [03:47]
Richard Marshall Jr.
So possibly if they. I'm sure they have all the fields open or at least the practice open. So I'll probably do some, some lessons down there then also.
- [03:58]
Zach Nanini
Yeah, I might need to come check it out. Get a little handicap tune up before we go into the grand so.
- [04:04]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, for a nice little price I could probably help.
- [04:08]
Zach Nanini
So we've gotten some more emails in. I think every time we do a show we get a few emails and some questions. I really wanted to focus on today and we kind of compiled a list of, of trap shooting do's and don'ts like what should you do, what shouldn't you do? And I think that's coming off of that conversation we had with Joe the other day when we got into etiquette and we kind of went down that round and you know, kind of, you know, teaching people how to act a certain way and how to carry yourself mentally into these tournaments. Also we had a couple individual questions that, that came in and I wanted to answer them personally because I thought they were good questions. So I'm going to read the first one. It's. I'm not going to name the shooter's name but you'll know who you are when you hear the question. The email came in. Hi, I'm a 17 year old shooter from Southern Illinois and I've been getting better as Time goes on. I've shot a hundred on singles and it and I'm on the 25 and a half yard line. My best doubles is a 98. And I've been wondering what can I do or think differently to get me over the hump and handicaps to get me that yard and a half of punch When I'm shooting good on caps, it's towards the last box, I think I have a 96 or I have the event in the bag and then I miss. What can I do differently not to get thinking about the yardage and not miss those birds. Thank you.
- [05:30]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, in the question he said it, I think I got the event in the back. You never have the event in the back. I mean I've been doing this 35 years and, and I've done it. We all, any top shooter that tells you that they've never done this or done that, they're full of it. I mean I've been on the last post before and you know, been held one or two, it's been like loss and you're like really, you've done it, Zach.
- [06:01]
Zach Nanini
I mean I can remember doing it in very important events in my life that I'll never forget. One of the times that I remember the most is I, I was going into the last post of the California State handicap with a 99 going and I missed one for 98 and I ended up tying nine ways in a shoot off for 98 instead of having a loan. I chopped the money nine ways instead of having a loan or ended up losing the overall by a target and losing the all around by target. So literally like it was everything on that, that target and I was kept thinking to myself, I've got this and I just, you know, I just mess it up. And it wasn't like I've got this, it was like I've already done it. Like I was being almost too confident where I thought, you know, oh, this is in the bag. I'm going to bust these last five and it's over. I just lost my sharpness and my focus for a second. I think it's very important. Doesn't matter if it's the last box, the first box, the first five, the last five, you have to shoot them the way you've been shooting them. So, you know, don't. I think so many people wind up or they wind down for the occasion, they're going into that last 10 or last 15 and they start either going faster or they start going slow and they start thinking to myself, okay, I'VE got this, you know, last 25 in, got to make it count or they try being more precise with it, trying to place the shot right. And that's where you get into a lot of trouble. So I would tell, you know, the shooter just to, just to don't change anything and let the chips fall where it may, you know. You know, if you, if you shot the first three boxes good, I would try to keep it as similar as the first three boxes going into the last box instead of trying to pull out this extra level of technique or extra level of trick. But I think, you know, and you could respond on this, Rick, because you know as well as anybody when your mind goes there, because it's going to go there, it's going to go there and it's going to say, you know what, I'm about to get a punch. I'm about to go to the 27 yard line. I'm about to. When how do you get it back focused onto the process? Rick, what are you doing?
- [08:10]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, so for me, you know, I've been there and been fortunate to, been there a lot, breaking, you know, some good scores. But I always, as I get down to the last draft, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, inside, you know, don't have to sell, you know, type of deal. And, and it's just one target at a time. You just broke 75 straight. Say you're straight or you're down one in handicap or you're straight and handicapped or down two, you're on it. We'll just say you're on a good score.
- [08:43]
Zach Nanini
You're on a good score.
- [08:44]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah, you don't go in there trying to be a defense, you know, that's what a lot of people do. They go into that last draft or that last post, last hand, last 15, they're on the defense like, okay, I'm.
- [08:58]
Zach Nanini
Going to try not to miss.
- [08:59]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Versus hitting the targets like you just did the first 75, 80, 85. Now, whatever it may be, that's where people get in is they. Their mind starts working and you got to cut that out. You just got to say, hey, you know, I'm going to one target at a time, see it, shoot it, follow through, you know, yada, yada, yada.
- [09:24]
Zach Nanini
And I think you have to embrace that those thoughts are going to come in like you have to be okay with knowing that those thoughts are going to hit your brain and what you handle them and how you handle them is going to be, you know, successful or unsuccessful. But Ricky has those thoughts I have those thoughts. Everyone has those thoughts. You know, you're. I mean, you can't help but go, you know me, straight in the doubles championship of America and not think, okay, I break this last 10, I'm in the shoot off like that. Thoughts probably going to jump into your mind at some level. But you have to go back to, okay, what do I have to do to break these targets? Where am I holding? What am I doing? Get back to the process, back to breaking the burden. And to give a shout out, we have a listener, Nathan hall. He broke his first 200 straight. I just spoke with him. I spoke with him on the phone the other day and I, and I. And forgive me if I'm wrong, Rick, but did he ever take a lesson from you or.
- [10:19]
Richard Marshall Jr.
No, no, Nathan never did. He talked to me about guns and stuff. Yeah. And we. Nathan's a great guy, him and his son, you know, so. Yeah, I saw that right away in that cheesy picture he had on. I think it was Trappield as opposed to.
- [10:37]
Zach Nanini
Yeah, Trapp and Field. He had the coverage first, his first 200. I called him the other day and I congratulated him. I said, hey man, great job. And he says, you know, you know, I gotta say, when I was at the last trap, I was nervous, but I kept thinking about what you and Ricky said about everyone gets nervous. And he said, I just got back to work and he said it finished and he said it was really helpful because if you haven't been there, you know, you gotta know how to approach that, right?
- [11:02]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And you always revert back to. And I take this back to any big score I broke at a shoot, I mean, I still get nervous. It's just controlled nerves and. But I always, in my mind, because we, we as humans work on self satisfaction, okay? If you do something good, we're happy. You do something bad, we're kind of pissy. You know, some people go off and, and smoke cigars and drink bourbon, you.
- [11:34]
Zach Nanini
Know, or even ribeye steaks.
- [11:37]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah. But there's, hey, you know, Rich, he's always running off and buying, you know, bourbon and smoking cigars. But what I always tell everybody is you want to revert back. So if you did something good, you can always go in your mind. Well, I just broke that last 25. Why can't I break this 25, break it down into 25s, you know, as, as we shoot them, you know, now years ago, and I don't know if you remember this, we had a short spit of a few of the shoots where we shot 10 of post, I.
- [12:11]
Zach Nanini
Remember I shot the spring ram. They used to have 50 targets of trap. And you'd go out there with 50 shots and post. And I tell you what, I was not in love with those 10 of.
- [12:23]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Post singles events, because you're out there.
- [12:25]
Zach Nanini
And you're on post one, and you just get 10 hard lefts in a row, and you're like, damn, come on, baby. They gave me a straightaway.
- [12:31]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, and that was. So I used to practice years ago. I would take and set a flat at each station at each post, and I would shoot 25 and then move. So I'd shoot 125 before I left the field. And so we went to 10 of post. I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. But what I did, and I broke it down into fives. So I would shoot five and I would take a step back and reset because it's almost like your feet would, like, melt into the concrete.
- [13:09]
Zach Nanini
You know, they'd get too jelly after that many shots.
- [13:12]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Absolutely. People didn't realize that. And that was what people used to come up to me, they're like, what are you doing different? You're still breaking good scores. And I would shoot, they'd see me. They're like, why are you moving? I'm like, get my legs. Okay, well, go back up the second five. And it's one of those things. I didn't let this overtake, you know, my ability to break a target. Everybody has the ability to break a target. You know, just like the person sent the question in. You're. They. They want to get back to the 27 so bad. We all do. You know, I've been there since I was 15 years old. I made the 27 yard line June of. Well, I guess it had been 19. Oh, Lord, 89, 90. Somewhere around there. I made the 27th. Now, I wanted to get there, and I did. I've had a ton of students that have had houses built on the 25, 26, because they're thinking, you know, my own son Tyler, he's on the 26 yard line now, you know, he's only shot maybe 7, 800 handicap on the 26th. But like I told him, I said, son, it just doesn't. Boom, you're there. You gotta work at it, you know, so that's. That's one of the things. And as our listener, you know, that said the question in. Just go out and shoot. Don't worry about it. You're on a good score. The score doesn't mean anything till the end.
- [14:49]
Zach Nanini
Yeah. And even then, like, you know, this is the, the saddest story in the world. But the first two hundreds from the 27 I broke, I lost in the shoot off. So I mean, it's like one of.
- [15:00]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Those things where, you know, you could.
- [15:01]
Zach Nanini
Break a perfect score. That doesn't mean you're going to win the event always. Right. Like obviously, especially at the bigger tournaments going to happen. And I, I have Dave Kelly and Stu Welton to thank on those shoot off victories that they beat my butt. And you know, hey, it is what it is. I got, I got the third one, my third hundred from the 27 actually won the event. So that was, that was my first time.
- [15:24]
Richard Marshall Jr.
That must have been, that must have been at Martinez.
- [15:26]
Zach Nanini
That was, that was the good old.
- [15:30]
Richard Marshall Jr.
You didn't play all the money though. I remember that.
- [15:32]
Zach Nanini
Everything but the 50s where the money was. I. So I did want to get into kind of some do's and don'ts. You know, some people have asked, you know, for you, Rick, as, as far as glasses go on a do and don't, you know, when do you change lane lenses? When do you not change lenses? How long do you get before you go to the field to start looking at colors and doing that side of it, I mean, is. I think I know your answer already, but, but, but what is your opinion on this factor? Well, got a lot of questions.
- [16:06]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I don't, I don't, I don't have my glasses here in the camper with me. They're in the, in the truck. But I, I use one color and it's a bronze and that bronze. I mean, and I do have some new, new lenses that are, that are supposed to be here at Wisconsin today from L and M lenses. They do all my lenses for me. Tom Morgan's the, the owner now, but I use a bronze. I do have what's called a pink glow, which is a pinkish color, a real overcast and then clears for nighttime. You know, my son, you know, you my bud, my squad mates, Justin, Marie, Wyatt Marie, they all wear pelis and.
- [16:56]
Zach Nanini
They all changed all the time, you.
- [16:59]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Know, all the time where me, you know, I never got into changing like that. And the reason why is I just one little color it, you know, lighting. You start, then you're worried about your eyes. You're like, oh, I can't, I can't see this good. And then you'll just put doubt in your head.
- [17:24]
Zach Nanini
Yeah.
- [17:24]
Richard Marshall Jr.
So, you know, I try to tell everybody, you know. Now hold on. Go to the, Go to The trap and take a, you know, your, your lenses, whatever you got, and look at some targets a couple squads poor. Because if you're going to change a lens from one to another, it doesn't really take the full effect for 5, 10, 15 minutes. And I know people that do this, throw them on and then run right out and shoot. It's, you know, not that good a deal.
- [18:01]
Zach Nanini
I'm in the same boat as you. And what I'll say is, you know, the color that I use every day, with exception to extremely bright days or extremely, extremely dark days, would be like a target orange color. I mean, it's just the one color that I've always used in every event. Now when I'm in shoot offs, it's a 10% yellow or gold, you know, kind of, that's nighttime color. And then, and then I have that same bronze copper lens that you have for my really, really, really, really bright, overcast, really, really bright days. You know, if I'm shooting in Vegas or something like that and, and the sun's over the top of my head. But I think, you know, as far as I do and adult, I think find the few lenses that work really well for you and stick with them. Because if you. Exactly, you're always like, if you got, you know, I'm not saying this, you know, to, to say, well, you don't need 15 or 20 lenses, but I'm saying once you go through those 15 or 20 lenses, you should be able to find the ones that you use day in and day out that, that work really, really well for you and you know, you stick with it. Something you mentioned earlier about getting to the squat in time, you know, for your eyes to adjust. I mean, I leave mine on probably 20, 30 minutes before an event at least. Some days I just leave them on all day and I don't even ever take them off while I'm, while I'm shooting.
- [19:17]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, you don't wear prescription.
- [19:20]
Zach Nanini
Yeah, they're not prescription. So you know, if you have prescription, I know you gotta let your eyes take a little bit of a break from that all day long. Otherwise you can get a little bit of a headache and go from there.
- [19:32]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah, it's all, you know, I wear prescription for shooting and I put them on in the morning and I, I leave them on. You know, years ago I used to put them on an hour before I shot. I'd shoot an event, I would take them all off. Cause I only need them for shooting. And then I'd have to put them on. Well, now I just kind of leave them on. But you want to go and look at targets. That's one thing I've noticed in the last 10 years. I guess, you know, a lot of people don't go to the traps anymore and look at targets. They show up for their squad. They're for me, even though I still do that. Ohio, I was late quite a bit because for the. Especially the singles day, we were late both hundreds. I was selling guns in between, so. But yeah, I try to get there. And even though I'm maybe talking and interacting with people, I'm still watching targets and kind of seeing. Okay. But, yeah, I love the bronze color.
- [20:36]
Zach Nanini
And, you know, our.
- [20:37]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Our buddy who, you know, passed away, Mike Reiner, who owned Post 4 Optics, you know, he's the one that got me turned on to the. The bronze color.
- [20:47]
Zach Nanini
Yeah. And then. And I miss him for sure. He was a good guy. And, oh, I'm still using Post four glasses. Right. Same frame, just putting different lenses in them because I can't get Mike to grind them anymore. But, you know, that being said, you mentioned getting to the trap beforehand for the lens. As far as a do and a don't. How early do you think it's good to get to a trap? And is there a certain amount of time where you're there too long and you get fatigued?
- [21:14]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Like.
- [21:15]
Zach Nanini
Like, obviously, you know, you probably don't want to be there an hour and a half before you shoot. Right. I mean, what's. What's kind of the sweet spot that you would say for shooters?
- [21:24]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I would say show up 30 minutes, you know, for a couple. A couple squats. That's all you really need, you know, just to show up and. And, you know, look at targets. You could see, height the targets and, you know, what's kind of going on there. And. And, you know, if everything's good or, you know, maybe it's throwing kind of a weirder target. You know, you could be aware. I always tell. Be aware of what's going on around you.
- [21:54]
Zach Nanini
Yeah. And it's one of those things where, like, I've shot with you a long time, and it's not like you're always saying, oh, these are bad. We gotta change them. It's just a matter of, hey, Zach, these are a little to the left. They're a little bit to the right. Or, hey, you know, they're. They're kind of in that zone. I think this kind of carries into our etiquette conversation with Joe, is you knowing.
- [22:16]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Speaking of that. I got a lot of. A lot of text messages from. From folks, and I won't say anybody's names who text me, but. And even some Facebook messages about. When Joe brought that up, that they were like, you know, that really needs to be discussed, the target taken, you know, turning down targets and stuff like that. They said, you know, we see that so much, and.
- [22:47]
Zach Nanini
And it's.
- [22:48]
Richard Marshall Jr.
It's. I think it's made a lot of people mad. They don't say anything. You know, our squad, as, you know, we don't take any target. You know, we.
- [22:59]
Zach Nanini
I think as an etiquette thing, you know, we're. You have people that don't shoot together all the time, so you have, like. You walk out to a squad with random people that you don't know. And I gotta give this to. To K O Yang. I've shot with him a few times, and I don't know. Have you ever shot with him, Rick, or. No.
- [23:20]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I shot with K. I think, one time years ago. I mean, I shot off against him a lot.
- [23:27]
Zach Nanini
Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, shooting on a squad in an event.
- [23:31]
Richard Marshall Jr.
No, I think one time years ago, I.
- [23:36]
Zach Nanini
So if you haven't done this, it's an experience because, you know, K really leads the squad. And what I mean by that is I get on K squad one day, and he didn't ask me to get on. I just, like, filled in a post and got on there and didn't know I was shooting with K. Well, I get there, and he literally pulls the whole squad together in a huddle before we go out, and he's like, all right, guys, everybody keep your eyes on the target. Anybody sees a chip, call it immediately. If you. If you see a missed target, make sure you call it immediately. I'm the one signing the score sheet, and I'll make sure we look at him before we go out. I'm like, this guy was not here to. To play. And I think he almost took it to the extreme. But. But that being said, you know, it made me feel like, well, if he had some new shooters on here, he's literally just laying it out for him. And I think with new shooters, sometimes you don't always know what to do and when to do it. And the most common thing is, is, like, when do you interrupt to fix a mistake on. On a. On a target? Like, if somebody calls it lost, you know, some people from an etiquette standpoint, will, well, are thinking to their mind, well, man, this guy's shooting a good score. I'M shooting a good score. Maybe we should wait until the end of. We change the post and fix it then. I'm really. Now, I think. Yes, I think. I think as soon as it happens, as soon as you hear, you know, a target be called lost, that's not lost, you. You correct it. And if you correct it right then and there, it's done. If you're waiting until the end of the change to do it. Well, sometimes I'm thinking about that, you know, as a shooter, I'm just like, oh, well, do they know that that's a loss or do they know that's a hit or, you know, whatever. So, I mean, what do you think about that, Rick?
- [25:23]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah, I'm with you. You change it right then and there.
- [25:27]
Zach Nanini
Right on the snow.
- [25:28]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yes. Yep. If it's. They call it loss and it's a hit target immediately, you can't wait. Because what happens is people are like, well, I don't know.
- [25:39]
Zach Nanini
Well, yeah. And vice versa. A loss to a hit or a hit, that was a loss. I mean, it was either way.
- [25:45]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And it's.
- [25:46]
Zach Nanini
And it's. And it's quickly but politely stopping the scorekeeper and getting them a check. And if they seem like they don't know because, you know, God knows, they don't always know. I mean, it'd be nice if the squad leader goes back and makes sure that it's done properly. And it's also nice if it's signature. Right. I mean, if you. You have a dead bird, put an initial on and put. Right, dead. Right. Dead.
- [26:06]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Or. Well, right loss. Yes. And this is one of the things I know. I. And I will say who. I got a couple phone calls during Ohio State shoot from people at other shoots that had some issues with targets. You know, they hit a target, they went back, told the scorekeeper, the scorekeeper put a line through. Okay, well, what happens is, you know, it was the loss. And I'm writing this down on the paper in front of me. And they. No, no, it was that target. So the scorekeeper did that, and they Initially. Okay, well, it looks like. Like that with the initials on there. Yeah. Problem is. Okay, and I'll do it a little better because I have paper on the other side. But that. And with an initial. And it looks like that. Well, that's still a lost target.
- [27:00]
Zach Nanini
Yeah. It doesn't say dead.
- [27:01]
Richard Marshall Jr.
It has to say dead dead. You know, I mean, that. And that's. So the management didn't tell them that. They just kind of. The kids were like, well, we didn't know, you know, and they didn't. Which, I mean, when I was a kid and I think I, I told you this in our, in the very, you know, our second episode on Draft Talk that I was on, my dad took a rule book and said, here, you want to shoot this, you need to learn it. So I did. And so I know, and that's why I lead off. And you know this, when we're shooting together, I control, I don't control everything. But if there's an issue, I go back, I tell them, listen, this is it. And you know, you get some, some schoolkeepers that are real timid or you know, they've been yelled at, which I am totally against. You should never yell at a scorekeeper.
- [27:59]
Zach Nanini
You know, you shouldn't yell at them because one, you know, I get it, right? We would all love to have trap shooters or someone that knows the rule book or knows everything up there in the stand. But the reality is nowadays folks is, you know, these gun clubs aren't paying these people a ton of money an hour. And even if they are paying them, you know, a minimum wage, that doesn't always mean you're getting the highest quality of people to go do this job, right? So I think you have to understand that and, and you have to give them some leniency and we have to self govern. I mean we all have to do our own thing and make sure we're doing it. And the, the other thing that you don't want to see is you don't want to have five leaders on a squad all trying to fix it. You want to have one guy, one guy like Ricky's the guy on post one, he's handling. If I'm leading off, I'm handling it. Whoever's the leader now. Now if you're ever on a squad with a random post one guy and he isn't doing it, you either need to pull him off to the side after the round's done and said, hey, you know, do you want to handle that? Or if we have any other issues, you want me to handle it. But I think that's something that you do off the cuff to the side. That's not nothing you need to bring up in front of the other five guys or anything like that. But, but there needs to be somebody handling the situation because that is very, very important. And for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to take something that they didn't hit. You know, when you hit it, you know, when you didn't hit It. And there are some. And I've seen some very good shooters have a target get marked dead that they didn't hit. And when you're talking at that level of the game, I mean, makes a big difference. I mean, you give Ricky a target, an event, and you're not beat me. No. Yeah, It's. It's not. It. It's not fair to anyone. It's. It's not fair to anyone to. To give anyone at any level anything that they didn't own.
- [29:53]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And.
- [29:54]
Zach Nanini
And it's also not fair to take anything away from someone that they did earn. And I've seen it the other. To the other side of the coin. I've seen it where somebody's hit the target, it gets called lost, and everybody on the squad's looking down at their feet or playing with their shoes, you know, whatever, right? And they're not. They're not looking at the target.
- [30:11]
Richard Marshall Jr.
You.
- [30:12]
Zach Nanini
You know, you need to have three or four eyes on that target at all times.
- [30:16]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And that's what. You know, I learned this a long time ago from Frank Oppy, and. And, you know, and I told that story on our episode, you know, I. I got a target. Didn't know. I was like, oh, I must have hit it, you know, because sometimes there is targets that you're like, well, maybe I did hit it. Maybe there was a piece, you know.
- [30:36]
Zach Nanini
Well, yeah, a lot of times you dust the hell out of it, and it doesn't have a chip, right. So you don't know from that angle if you dusted it, if a chip came off on the other side. I mean, that happens.
- [30:46]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah. So I was like, all right. They were like, that target locked. And I was like. I said, well, the polar. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. They told me, this is how it is. And from that day forward, never had another issue. And that's the problem, I think, is people don't, you know, it's. It could be they just weren't, you know, coach. Right. As a kid. Because I see some kids do it, you know, and I've had to, like, parents have come up to me and like, oh, yeah, he broke. You know, he didn't miss that one. He hit that. And I'm like, well, I didn't see anything off. And I said, but, you know, he also didn't hit the one before that. And they gave that to him. Now this is standing back, and the parents are like, oh, well, what are you supposed to do? Well, you know what you're supposed to do. Do the right hand segment.
- [31:36]
Zach Nanini
And I think at that younger level. And, and, and, and, you know, I'm. Most coaches that I deal with, most parents that I deal with, I would say 99% of everybody is on the level with this. But, you know, there are some occasions where there's the people that are like, they want to win at all costs. You know, they. They don't really care. They don't really care how you get the win as long as you get the win. I think that our sport is special because of integrity. And I think that, you know, there's nothing that earns my respect for faster than when you miss a jargon and you're honest about it. I know that you're not willing to put your winning or your needs above the, the true value of the sport and that we love and you. It's a gen. It's a gentleman's game, you know, obviously for ladies too, but, but, you know, that being said, it's, It's. It's one of those things that you can teach. Teaching them on the wrong foot at the beginning can only cause trouble in life moving forward.
- [32:34]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Exactly. Well, and here's the thing. It's like Ohio. And I think I said this on the episode with Joe. You know, I had a gentleman come up to me. We're shooting, and. And Tyler missed a target, the puller. We had a lot of issues with targets there. That's why Joe brought it up. You know, these, these, these scorekeepers, they're just scorekeepers now. We used to call them pullers because they pushed the button and they score both and they were aware. They were all Johnny on the spot. They were. These kids come up and not get off topic, but the kids come up, their buddies come up and talk to them, and I've got to turn around and tell them one person in the chair. That's it.
- [33:11]
Zach Nanini
Yeah.
- [33:12]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Okay. Unless they're training. If they're training, that's a different story. I got no problem with them having two in there, as long as they're not chitchat.
- [33:21]
Zach Nanini
Yeah. They're not playing on their phone. They're not doing this and you know, having a. A time.
- [33:27]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah. So we're shooting and Tyler misses and I, I said, what'd you call that? I said, that was lost. It was his last target. So when we changed, I went back and made sure it was lost. Blah, blah. We get done walking to the. Or take the golf cart to the next track, get done. And there's a gentleman there and he's like, I just watched you take a turn from your son. And I'm like, I didn't take a target for myself.
- [33:55]
Zach Nanini
He didn't hit it.
- [33:56]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Well, yeah, yeah, you. And I go, he didn't hit the target. I go, if you don't hit it, you don't get it. And he just looked at me and I could tell right then he's one of those that he's going to win at all costs. Well, there's one thing, integrity. And I know when I break a score, I can sleep. Every time I broke. I can. I can go to sleep at night. I don't have to lay there and go, oh, can I? Man, I broke a 99 today, but I actually broke a 97. I've seen. I've witnessed shooters taking them just as you have.
- [34:31]
Zach Nanini
Yep.
- [34:32]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And. And once.
- [34:33]
Zach Nanini
Once you've seen that. Every time you see them on the board at a high score, you gotta question yourself and say, well, I wonder if he actually hit those or not. I wonder if he actually had a 99 or 100 today, or if I just got on that. Got on that bank where that score gave him a target or two. And, you know, and, you know, it's. It's kind of, you know, we're getting into kind of the drama of trap shooting, which I don't want to go deep down that. But the reality is, is. Is like, when you're at the level and you're looking, that is something that you think, and you're like, okay, there are certain guys I know that would never do that. And then there's some guys, and I'm.
- [35:09]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Like, yeah, would they.
- [35:11]
Zach Nanini
Would they not? You know, and. And all they can do to prove me wrong moving forward is not do it again. Like every. You know, I'm. I'm sure everybody was young at some stage in their life and made a mistake. Right. I mean, even when you were in that position and it happened to you the first time with Frank, you didn't really know what to do. Right. So I think it's. It's important.
- [35:32]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Thought I broke it.
- [35:33]
Zach Nanini
Exactly, exactly. I mean, give yourself the benefit of the doubt. You're like, yeah, I thought I broke it. I mean, I didn't know.
- [35:39]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Right.
- [35:40]
Zach Nanini
And if. If you thought you broke it, you don't have some mentor around you or somebody that's been there to say, hey, you know what? Break it. Then you could have gone off down that road too, and somebody could have seen and said, oh, Ricky took up target. Well, you know, it has. It's a whole team effort. And that's. Yes, that's.
- [36:00]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And I've seen this. Seen this where, you know, someone got.
- [36:06]
Zach Nanini
A target on a trap.
- [36:07]
Richard Marshall Jr.
And we've had some polars that. Or scores that, you know, giving away targets as we say, you know. And I'm like, And then you go to the next trap and it happens again. And I'm like. And they, you know, they know they didn't break it. When they turn to look at you and go. They don't know where to look because they're like, oh, crap, everybody.
- [36:29]
Zach Nanini
And they caught again.
- [36:31]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I watched a guy do this at the Grand American. This is years ago at Spartan, one of the first grands in a handicap. And I was actually on a 99 in that handicap. And I watched. I go. We're following them. So I see the score sheet. The guy broke in 25 on the first trap. Second trap, he breaks 23, but they have him down as the 24. And the leadoff guy on that squad, he said, I thought you missed two. And he's like, they didn't think so. Exact words. And I was like. And I run the first 50. We got to the third track, and this guy had a 25. And I'm like, okay, well, I go up. Now I missed. Now what I missed. All of a sudden I was like, all right, now I'm tied. That was the first thought in my head. Now I'm tied with this guy. That is not legitimately on a 99. He is legitimately should have been on a 98. Okay, so we go the last box, he gets a target on the. I think it was their third post, if I remember right, because back then we shot pretty quick. And he got a target on his. I think it was his third post. And when they changed, the leadoff guy was like, no, you missed one. And he turned around and he seen me standing there, and I was just staring at him, and I think he was reading my mind. And he's like, yeah, I think I. And the board's like, oh, I thought I saw a piece. And he goes, oh, that's good enough then. And Leo guy's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Did you see a piece or didn't you see a piece? And they go, well, it was a big thing. What was the one?
- [38:21]
Zach Nanini
The one.
- [38:22]
Richard Marshall Jr.
So then the squad goes, well, that was the one. So anyways, the guy ends up breaking like a 96, I think 96 or 97, I can't remember exactly, but I go out and I did break 99, and their squad was still hanging out doing whatever. And one of the guys on the squad came up to me and he goes, I seen you look at that, his score. He goes, he didn't hit that target, did he, on that, that second box? And I go, no. I said, he missed two. And he goes, yeah, we've shot with this guy before and it seems like this happens. And I said, well, you guys in the squad, if you know him, whatever, he'd either say something to it or when he's shooting, don't let it happen. And then he'll get the drift. I go, but. And it was funny. That guy went up to him and said something joy and this guy, his exact words were like, well, it ain't my problem if they're giving them to me. Well, that's cheap.
- [39:26]
Zach Nanini
Yeah, it is. It is your problem and you need to deal with it. And you need to freaking be able to walk in the clubhouse and own whatever you hit, no matter what, you know, so.
- [39:36]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Exactly.
- [39:37]
Zach Nanini
So.
- [39:37]
Richard Marshall Jr.
So.
- [39:38]
Zach Nanini
And I would, I. That was one of the things that we brought up that got the most amount of feedback and the most amount of questions around it. So I'm glad we decompressed it a little bit today. But, you know, other than that, Rick, are there any other major do's and don'ts that you really recommend for people you know, Is there, is there?
- [39:54]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I don't, you know, you know my motto, have fun, enjoy this. This is one of the greatest sports we can do where of all ages, all abilities, it's one of the only sports is, you know, you know me as one of the top shooters. You know, if I'm going to shoot and I'm, you know, I have a squad with openings on it. I always tell people, jump on, shoot, let me know, jump on. I don't, as long as you shoot, when it's your turn, have at it.
- [40:23]
Zach Nanini
And that is, that is crazy cool though, to be able to say, I can shoot with the best. And. And you know, if you look at golf, nobody's going to play with Tiger Woods. You look at basketball, nobody's ever gonna. Nobody's ever gonna play basketball with Michael Jordan.
- [40:37]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Right?
- [40:38]
Zach Nanini
But then, you know, in trap shooting, you can stand there next to Ricky Marshall Jr. You could stand there, you know, with Harlan or with Harlan or with, you know, Joe.
- [40:49]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah.
- [40:50]
Zach Nanini
Any of these guys that are, you know, that are. That are known as the greatest of all time. And you know what I think I would like to see from a youth perspective. You know, we have all These youth shooters coming up, we have all these, you know, young hot shots that, you know, got these hot reflexes and they're breaking everything at the end of barrel. You know, they don't have mortgage payments yet. Right. They're still not still on the full sponsorship program. Right. And what I'd like to see is for them to know a little bit more about the history of the sport, to know who's the greats. Because, I mean, sometimes, I mean, there's people that were amazing, I mean, top end, top end shooters. But you know, you hit a certain age where it just doesn't happen anymore. And, and, and I remember shooting with one of them was, was Phil Ross. And you know, Phil Ross at the time that I got to shoot with him, wasn't much of a shooter. But that being said, it was still Phil Ross, right? I mean, and it was the same thing, you know, happened on the back end of shooting with Ben. I got to shoot with Benias. I did get the, the fortunateness of shooting with Beniaz when he was good enough to put, put a, put a couple of butt whoopings on me. You know, he still like, he, like there was still the back end of that where he was still pretty good, but then towards the end of it he, you know, he tapered off and it wasn't, he wasn't, you know, as killer of an instinct, but just to be there and know who he was. You know, I could have been, you know, some punk kid and been like, oh, who's this old guy on my squad?
- [42:23]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Right?
- [42:23]
Zach Nanini
But, but I think it's, it's one of those things where you gotta, you gotta kind of know and try to look at the books and say, okay, well won this stuff and who's, you know, obviously it's gonna be another 30 or 40 years until you're old and out of the game, Ricky. But, but, but, but, but I would want everyone to know who you are, you know, regardless of where we're at in drop shooting here.
- [42:44]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Here's the deal. Yeah, the history. And, and I'm a big person on the history shoot. And I've been fortunate. You know, I grew up, started in the 80s, but I was fortunate to. I've shot with a lot of our greatest all time shooters. You know, shot a lot with Leo, Frank, Copy, Brett Robinson. You know, a lot of people never seen those guys shoot. And it was amazing. You know, Bob Munson, you know, we had Eric on the show, the Munson family, you know, Bob and Luann, I mean, legend husband A wife? Yeah, they were. I don't remember how many times they've been on the All American team, like 40 years each, you know, have like.
- [43:21]
Zach Nanini
60 times 60 all American teams between the three of them?
- [43:25]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Oh, no, it's more like. Between the three of them. I'm gonna say it's more like 80 or 90.
- [43:31]
Zach Nanini
It's a lot.
- [43:31]
Richard Marshall Jr.
The three between Bob Luann and Eric. But it's like Bob Munson, people. You know, Bob Munson won the Grand American Handicap. Bob Munson also won the clay target. He's won the all around. But Bob was known as a single specialist and a double specialist. You went to his shoe. I remember tying. I broke the 100 doubles at the Central zone doubles one year. And at Nebraska, I was shooting at that location. And Bob, I think, was shooting at Ottawa or somewhere of Minnesota at that. At a location there. And I go there like, well, I'm pretty sure you're tied. You need to bank chart. I went and banked a hundred and I. I broke a hundred, and then I banked another hundred. I missed in the first round, banked another 80, you know, so basically, I broke one 99 out of 200 in the shoot off with breaking a hundred in the event. And Bradford come up to me and goes, you're aaa. And I was like, oh, okay. And I was like, where? And he goes, well, I go, bob Munson? How'd you know that? I go, well, I figured if anybody I was gonna be tied with was Bob Monster, you know, So a lot of kids nowadays don't know this stuff about shooters, you know, like, you would look at those. Like, I was fortunate. I shot with a guy named Gerald Christian. I don't know if, you know, remember Gerald at all.
- [44:57]
Zach Nanini
I've heard of the name.
- [44:59]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Yeah. Gerald. He was a single specialist. He won the clay target a couple times. When we shot, he broke the single. It's just like Nora Martin Ross, you know, I mean, Nora hasn't shot for quite a few years. She still teaches a ton of lessons, which, you know, we're going to have her on the show here sooner or later. But, you know, Nora singles guaranteed. Every time we shot together, I was like, mark her down for a 200 or a 199. And that's what she broke. I mean, she led the nation in singles average over man, woman or child, you know, with high singles average. So people just don't know the history. And that's. That's one thing we should do an episode and maybe, you know, it's good people Come to the grand in Sparta. We have the hall of Fame building. Go in and walk around there and check out the hall of Fame. Some of our passion.
- [45:54]
Zach Nanini
Look into the US look at who's been good and who's, you know, who's done things right and just kind of understand that at some level because I think everybody's so internally focused on, you know, I'm working on becoming, you know, this, this and this and this. And that's good. I mean, you got to have that, that competitive drive, but you also need to respect the people that have put their time into the game. And Absolutely.
- [46:19]
Richard Marshall Jr.
You wouldn't. We wouldn't have this great sport. I mean, you know, and you know him well, Leo Harrison iii, our greatest all time trap shooter, in my opinion.
- [46:28]
Zach Nanini
I really don't think there's anyone that's going to argue that point.
- [46:30]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I mean, well, he's won 27.
- [46:35]
Zach Nanini
27? Yeah. 27 rings.
- [46:38]
Richard Marshall Jr.
I mean, that's pretty salty, you know.
- [46:40]
Zach Nanini
I mean, it is, but. But what I remember about Leo more than anything was the way he handled himself and Gentle Giant. He. He was always so calm and demeanor. He never had anything bad to say about anyone. He was always very polite and he was always willing to give, you know, give back. And, you know, I remember, you know, the year, you know, there was a lot of money in the Martin Lewis and it was like Leo just got done winning the overall shooting. It was a big one. I mean, it was one of his higher scores. It was like a 990 or something like that. And he. He won 992. 92. Yeah, it was a lot he won it that year. And I was going into that. I was going into the restaurant in the back at the time. I don't remember if it was J&T's or what it was, but it was, you know, one of the restaurants at the grand. And I went in there and I'm rolling in there and, you know, just getting ready to have dinner kind of by myself. And, you know, this is after everything's done and Leo's there and he's like, hey, what are you doing, Zach? And I'm like, oh, I'm just, you know, grabbing a bite to eat. You know, everybody's kind of leaving and I'm here and he's like, well, have dinner with me. And so he sat, you know, I sat down, I had dinner with Leo. And you know, and you know, everybody all week long is asking him about shooting all the time. And so I didn't want to do that. And I just kind of asked him, you know, Leo, what do you like to do other than shoot? He's like, I like to collect coins and play cards. And I'm like, I'm like, you know, and he's just the coolest guy in the world. But I think he'd won.
- [48:04]
Richard Marshall Jr.
He was a, he was a huge Van Halen fan.
- [48:09]
Zach Nanini
I mean, who doesn't like Eddie Van Halen?
- [48:11]
Richard Marshall Jr.
But exactly.
- [48:12]
Zach Nanini
That being said, you know, he bought my dinner and he just won like $54,000 in Lewis money on that thing. I think it was, it was a, it was a big one, but, you know, he bought my dinner and just said, you know, thanks for having dinner with me, Zach. And he always, he always used to make you feel included. He always used to make you feel like whatever you shot was good. And, you know, that was just something about him that he did. And he had grace and, and, you know, he never took anything from anybody. He'd always give more than he took. And, and in that kind of a guy, you want him to win. I mean, you, you, you know, you want to beat him, but when you're not beating them, you're like, I'm glad Leo won today because who could be mad. Who could be mad at him winning? You know what I mean?
- [48:52]
Richard Marshall Jr.
No, you're absolutely right. I mean, Leo is a great guy, and I was fortunate to. To shoot with him a lot. And I got to see on that side of the shooting and like you said, the, you know, just talking to him about non shooting stuff, you know, I traveled with him a lot, him and Poppy and I never talked a lot about shooting. We talked about the others, which is.
- [49:18]
Zach Nanini
A cool part of the life. The life stuff, right? And. And I think that's what helps. I mean, I had a lot of mentors growing up and, you know, you being one of them and just kind of giving, you know, it's like I had like seven dads between my dad and all the other dads, but it was like, you take a little bit from each one, you're like, okay, you know, be gentle like Ricky or be gentle like Leo and then shoot, shoot doubles like Ricky and you know, just little stuff. But, but that being said, you know, I had fun with this today. I think one thing we might want to do is, you know, maybe go down memory lane one day and just tell some stories and spend some time and maybe get some people on here that know, you know, the history trap shooting side and do a couple little stories. I think that would be a lot of fun. But that being said, I want you to shoot good there this week and you know, touch, is there anything you think we're missing today?
- [50:10]
Richard Marshall Jr.
No, we're good. We'll. We'll talk maybe, maybe next week at Iowa. Going to come over to Iowa or.
- [50:16]
Zach Nanini
No, it's in the air. I'm, I'm, I'm thinking about it heavily. I know they've got that $10,000 added, which I think people really need to consider going to Iowa for that because that's a big deal. I really want to come. I really want to come. The problem is is I, you know, I. Last month I pretty much did a whole lot of shooting and I also have to think of my clients in my practice and what's going on.
- [50:38]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Absolutely.
- [50:39]
Zach Nanini
I'm trying to get a lot of stuff caught up on so that I can be prepared going into the and make that count. I'm working like, like heck right now, putting in 12, 12 hour days so that I can maybe squeeze into Iowa a little bit. But we'll see. Okay. It's in the air. That being said, I did want to thank our show sponsors obviously Remington for being with us from the beginning, winning stock work, for taking care of me and Rick. Always, always having our backs shot tracker and then, you know, RM shooting clinics. He's been helping my handicap a little bit. I might need to work on the cost but, but I like it. And, and you're one and only. Zach Denini, if you need a financial guy, would love to help you, would love to talk to you and we appreciate you guys listening in for another episode and we'll, we'll talk next Friday.
- [51:27]
Richard Marshall Jr.
Absolutely. See everybody. Good luck.
- [51:31]
Zach Nanini
Thanks for tuning in to Trap Talk.