Heartland Grand Shoot Recap! Plus ATA Rule Changes, Weather Battles & All-American Updates - Ep. 141

Summary

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Trap Talk From The Back Fence

Episode 141: Heartland Grand Shoot Recap! Plus ATA Rule Changes, Weather Battles & All-American Updates
Date: September 12, 2025
Hosts: Zach Nanini & Richard (Ricky) Marshall Jr.

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Overview

In this lively recap, Zach and Ricky look back on the 2025 Heartland Grand, discussing major winners, event highlights, intense weather challenges, and memorable off-the-field moments. The episode shifts into a deep dive on updated ATA rules, the newly condensed All-American points standings, key rule changes for the new target year, and the race for trophies and team positions. Listeners also get the inside scoop on legendary shooters’ performances, candid stories, and what’s next for the trapshooting elite.

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Episode Highlights

1. The Heartland Grand: A Shooter's Marathon

[02:32–11:46]

• A Staple Event: Both hosts share their affection for the Heartland Grand, praising Dale’s exceptional management and the immense volume: “You get more targets in seven days than anywhere I can think of in the country.” – Zach [02:50]
  • 300 targets/day (Monday–Saturday); 200 on Sunday; night shoots available.
• Winners Recap:
  • High Overall Champion: Richard Marshall Jr.
  • Runner-Up: Ian Derek
  • Category champions include Shelby Skaggs (Lady 1), Sandra Jo Jack (Lady 2), Aiden Potonic (Sub-Junior), Alexis Marie Fernan (Junior), Ian Lawrence (Junior Gold), Perry Weiner (Sub-Vet), Jeff Q (Vet), Dean Newman (Senior Vet).
• Notable Performances & Shoot-offs:
  • Perry Weiner vs. Rich Bullard in Sub-Vet: “Took him out. Mustard slipped off the hot dog on Bullard.” – Ricky [03:59]
  • Jennifer Rutger (multiple wins: Lady, A-class).
  • Special mention to Jason Krause (Clay Target Champion)—a potential future podcast guest.

2. Weather: The Great Equalizer

[07:56–09:19]

• Sunday’s handicap championship marred by “brutal” wind:
  • Brit Dalton posted a 96 to win; scores overall were low.
  • “It was windy, guys…me and Ricky went on the first box and both took 21s.” – Zach [08:15]
  • Only two 50-straights in the middle/final 50.
  • Staying focused and adapting was key; stamina and grit defined the top scores.

3. Shoot-Off Culture & Participation

[10:17–12:22]

• Many shooters leave before final shoot-offs, especially if not chasing points.
  • “A lot of the people don’t stay for the shoot-offs on Sunday…understandable, but a little bit of a shame.” – Zach [10:17]
  • Hunt the Racket event: Few qualifying shooters showed up; Aiden won the mule deer hunt, Ian the pheasant hunt.

4. Championship Singles, Averages, & Friendly Rivalry

[12:22–18:55, 33:35–35:13]

• Zach chases a 99.0 average: Needed and achieved multiple hundreds—“locked in” for the last singles event, braving the wind and squad banter to maintain the mark.
  • “I was dug in and so tired on that last box of singles.” – Zach [18:34]
• Ricky posts the lone 200 in championship singles.
  • “He broke them as clean and as good as you could break them.” – Zach [15:45]
• The pair’s rivalry and camaraderie are on display throughout—trading stories, tips, and jabs.

5. Category & Event Shout-Outs

[17:38–19:36, 19:36–20:41, 21:05–24:20]

• Comprehensive run-down of class and category winners across events.
• Special recognition for competitors like Justin Debris (“one of the better shoots that I’ve seen him shoot in a minute”—Zach [20:41]) and others who stepped up in tough conditions.

6. Off-the-Field: Red Smokehouse Tradition

[27:31–29:48]

• Local dining tradition recapped with comedic detail.
  • “Once I realized that Rich was paying for the tab, I started to really tilt them back…I was in heaven. Damn, these things are great.” – Zach [28:30–28:40]
  • Future plans to host a Trap Talk cocktail hour at the smokehouse in 2026.

7. Special Events: Under the Lights & Club Culture

[30:15–31:20]

• Buddy Buddy Shoot and Fast Eddie Slider: “Shooting white targets again under the lights. That was great.” – Ricky [30:32]
• Nighttime and novelty shoots maintain the "old school" magic of Stockdale Gun Club.

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All-American Team Standings: Condensed Drama

[32:09–44:40]

• Condensing Explained: Points now calculated off each shooter's best seven (instead of total), showing new preliminary team positions.
  • “It actually shows the ranking of where you're at before they release the team.” – Zach [32:13]
• Open Team Race:
  • Dagan Voightman, runaway captain.
  • Richard Marshall Jr. edges Ian Derek for 2nd by a single point: “It’s so thin...that might not make a big deal to some people, but it might make a big deal to you or me.” – Zach [34:49]
  • Debate: Should All-American points only go to shooters who win a trophy? Ricky: “That’s how I’ve always felt and I’ll always feel.” [35:53]
  • Open event “point dilution” discussed.
• Category Races:
  • Lady 1: Elizabeth Turns set to captain; Shelby Skaggs 2nd, 69 points difference.
    • Notable anecdote: Elizabeth had to leave the Ohio shoot due to her mother's injury but still held her spot.
  • Lady 2, Sub-Junior, Junior, and Junior Gold: All tight races, each with personal stories—e.g., Wyatt Debris making a pivotal drive to Ohio, clinching the junior captaincy: “He beat everyone in Ohio.” – Zach [41:02]
  • Shoutouts to up-and-comers and sponsors’ shooters like Cooper French and George Lee.
• Veteran, Senior Vet, and Chair Shooter spots:
  • Briefly mentioned, with some data in flux due to live edits during the recording.
  • “There's some live editing going on.” – Zach [55:02]

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Rule Changes: The ATA 2026 Target Year

[55:31–59:17]

• Wheelchair Shooter Rules: Clarified to require no use of legs as primary propulsion.
• Gun Weight: Mostly wording changes.
• Biggest Change—Overall Targets:
  • Shift from “1300 targets” to “13 events.”
    • Now, multi-day events with 200-target singles will allow more total targets (+ up to 1400/1500 birds depending on program structure).
    • “It’s going to open it up a little bit wider into the week…all American points might be starting on Monday.” – Zach [56:24]
• Future Program Flexibility:
  • Potential to spread events, change event formats (e.g., favoring daily 100s over 200s).
  • Mild resistance to extra 200-bird singles events—"The last thing I want to do is have 200 birds twice at a state shoot." – Zach [58:00]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On windy conditions and endurance:

  “To break a 96 on that, I mean, there's not much more you could ask for, in my opinion.” – Zach [08:15]

• On close All-American races:

  “That’s one point between second and third…you have to keep fighting all the time.” – Zach [34:49]

• On the traditions at Stockdale:

  “It's like the field of dreams. I'm waiting for Leo to walk out of the corn…It brings you back to what old school trap shooting is.” – Zach [31:09]

• On ALL American recognition:

  “If you're going and you're traveling all around the country…and the prize…is the hat, the pin, and the certificate…I think on the first team alone, if you had a plaque made…or a jacket or something that they could actually have and be proud of…It's really, really hard to utilize just that certificate.” – Zach [49:34–50:47]

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Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

• Heartland Grand Overview & Winners: [02:32–11:46]
• Sunday’s Wind-Challenged Handicap: [07:56–09:19]
• All-American Team Standings & Debate: [32:09–44:40]
• ATA Rule Changes for 2026: [55:31–59:17]
• Food & Socials at the Heartland: [27:31–29:48]
• Tradition and Nostalgia at Stockdale: [31:09–32:09]
• Category Breakdown & Sponsor Shoutouts: [40:06–45:18]
• Discussion of Grand American Special Awards: [46:45–51:50]

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Episode Tone

Rich with camaraderie, humor, and competitive spirit, the episode features plenty of friendly barbs, inside jokes, and a deep appreciation for the tradition and community around trapshooting. Zach and Ricky keep things accessible for both die-hards and newcomers, balancing stats and results with stories, practical insight, and heartfelt recommendations.

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Final Word

With the trapshooting season winding down, Zach and Ricky celebrate competitive achievements, highlight changing conditions and evolving rules, and set the stage for another eventful year. As always, listeners are encouraged to follow, subscribe, and join the hosts at upcoming events, both on the trapline and for blueberry mules at the Red Smokehouse.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome back, Trap Talk listeners. I'm your host, Zach Danini. I'm here with my co host, Richard Marshall Jr. The one and only. We just got back from the Heartland grand, and we're getting ready for the fall shooting season. I know this is the time where things generally slow down just a little bit for us, but it's a lot of fun and, and we get to go out and do some hunting and some other things. So how's everything going for you, Rick?

[B]

Good. It's all good here. We, you know, got back from the Heartland grand last shoot of the year, major shoot. We'll say they still had some. Some Labor Day shoots. I think that counted in last year's target year, 2025.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But as of now, it is. Well, you guys will see this on Friday, but it is September 4th, so it's the new 2026 target year.

[A]

Yeah, September 4th in real, real world as we're recording this. So this will probably be released on, I'm thinking September 12th or September 19th, so maybe one of those Fridays. We'll see. But today, today's episode, there's a few things that we wanted to cover. One, we wanted to recap the Heartland grand and just go over the winners, where they're at. The other thing we wanted to touch base on is the all American team standings because they have reduced the points down. So want to spend a little bit of time talking about that. And then also there's a few rule changes that are coming into effect this year that I think we need to. We need to. To mention and, and, and go into. So that's what we're looking for in today's episode. Some good information. With that being said, let's get started with the Heartland. Welcome to season three of Trap Talk.

[B]

Brought to you by Craig off, the choice of champions.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky. Bullshit. And we both love them.

[B]

Yeah. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better, folks. Get yourself a Craig off. Your scores will increase.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank Winig. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[B]

Yeah. Winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and Hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter.

[A]

With that winning stock. Of course. Yeah, the grand's a great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[B]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show. You know, I know you've been going to the heartland a very long time. I've been going to the heartland a very long time. It's one of my very favorite shoots of the year. You know, Dale does a great job running that shoot and you get more targets in seven days than anywhere I can think of in the country. And you know, they, they definitely have the only reason.

[B]

You like.

[A]

Oh, I love it. I love it, man. If you want to shoot some targets, you go to Dale's because I mean, 300 a day every day until Sunday.

[B]

Monday through Friday. No, Saturday through Saturday.

[A]

Yeah, and then 200 on Sunday. So it's, it's, it's real gamey. Plus if you want to shoot even more, they've got all the night shoots. So yeah, you know, that's, that's, that's the deal. But you know, Ricky, you shot it really, really well. I know you ended up winning the high overall, so congratulations on that. You know, just kind of looking over this. You won the high overall champion. Ian Derek one runner up. And then in the other areas of categories, Shelby Skaggs one champion of Lady 1, Sandra Joe Jack one champion of Lady 2, sub junior was Aiden Potonic junior was Alexis Marie Fernan junior gold was in Lawrence sub vet was Perry Weiner, which I did, I did see that he had a shoot off with Rich Bullard in that deal. So that was, that was kind of funny.

[B]

Took him out.

[A]

Took him out.

[B]

Mustard slipped off the hot dog on Bullard.

[A]

Jeff. Jeff Q1 1 veteran. And then Dean Newman, hall of Famer won one senior vet. So, you know there's a lot of, a lot of high end shooters there definitely competing.

[B]

Then we had Samuel Lindeck. He had one double A him and Justin tied. But I think Justin had left.

[A]

Yeah, Justin left. I talked to him and told him and he said he had to get on the road.

[B]

Yeah, he had to go. And then Jennifer Rutger was a champion, Dirk Winkle B class. And then Randy Hill at Oklahoma, class C champion. And Dean Davis was class D champion. So it, you know, great shoot. You know, especially in the overall. I know that was well attended. You know, Dale throws such A great shoot. He starts from, you know, Monday on shooting, you know, 100 of each. And you know, Jim Bradford out of Norfolk, Nebraska sponsors the first day, all three events. So it's the hall of Fame singles, hall of Fame handicap hall of Fame doubles. Jim Bradford. So I see Krausey, one triple eight, you know, the clay target champion. So we'll, we'll have to try to get Krausey on the show. You know, he doesn't speak like Zach and I do, so we'll, we'll see if we can get him on the show or not.

[A]

Yeah, we get him on, he's just, we'll just have some fun with it for sure. Moving into the other events, the high all around again, Mr. Richard Marshall Jr. Ended up winning champion with a, with a 392. I myself got AAA with a 390. Ian never showed up for the shoot off so that was easy enough to get that done. Jordan, it's always easy when nobody shows up. Jordan Lentz won double A387. Jennifer Rutger again, one A with 377. Randy Hill. I think he won the overall too, didn't he? Yeah, won the overall in C class.

[B]

And then he won the all around.

[A]

The B class all around. Miller Hutton 1c. Dean Davis 1d. Which Dean 1d in the overall and the all around. So congratulations on that. Shelby Skaggs, one lady won a high all around so she won the overall and the all around. Sandra. Sandra. Joe Jack won the overall in the all around.

[B]

Aiden, she won the all around with the shoot off though.

[A]

Correct. With Shelly. Yep. Aiden again won the, the overall and the all around and then Kane Packer won the junior. So Kane Packer. Kane Packer. Ian Lawrence won both. Perry Weiner won both. Rob Taylor looks like he won vet and then Dean Newman won both the overall and the all around. So you know, I know that that was, you know, everyone looks at a shoot and in my opinion I think the overall is the hardest thing to win because you've got to be in it all week long. I know Ricky feels, feel, feels the same way about that but, but it just shows endurance and consistency and I think, you know, anyone can go up and pop an event but to have these overalls and all arounds that are up there and win, I think that just shows more of a well rounded shooter in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's, that's one of the things. And if people look at the scores, you know, I had some people call and ask, they were like, wow, you know, the. The handicap know, on Sunday looked like it was down a little bit, you know, with scores and stuff. And, you know, going into that, the handicap championship, you know, our. Our good buddy and. And has been on the show, Brit Dalton, he won champion with a lone 96. And then Ian was runner up with a 94. But actually, Jennifer Rutger, she did win lady, but she broke a 95. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And just to speak on this, because I know people want to know what's going on. It was windy, guys. I mean, this was. We had a windy Sunday. So if you want to get into what's going on there, I mean, it was blowing hard, and me and Ricky went on the first box and both took 21s on the first box. And we're like, you need to. We need to, you know, lace this up a little bit.

[B]

We need to open up a little bit.

[A]

And we shot. We shot our. Our butts off on the back 75. Not gonna lie. But just in that target was chopping and moving around quite a bit. And to break a 96 on that, I mean, there's not much more you could ask for, in my opinion. I don't think he left very many birds on the. On the table with that 96.

[B]

I think he ran the middle 50, and because I think there was only two 50s broke, Brent ran the middle 50, and then Perry Weiner actually broke the front 50 and ended up with a 93. But I think those are the only 250s broken. It was. It was sporty. I mean, that was. You know, that was the thing. And, you know, like Zach just said, you know, we. We both had 92s and. Or I. Or excuse me, I had a 92. Zach had a 93. He did run the second box. I missed two on that second box. I think I was down six in the first 35, and then I missed two out of the last 65.

[A]

So, yeah, no, you. You stepped it up. You said. You said, I ain't gonna go down any lower than this. He said, I'm gonna hold on to this thing. And it's really good you did, because you only won the overall by one bird.

[B]

Yeah, one. One target is what I won the overall buy. But. And we'll talk more about what one target can mean in this once we get into the all American standing stuff after this. But, you know, in the handicap, Peter Walker was third, Zach was fourth, Harlan Campbell was fifth. Those were the 93s. And then Jordan lynch were sixth, Kirk Rogers seventh. I took eighth place. And then Joey was ninth, Michael Hendrickson 10th, Donald Halstead 11th, and then Katie Gilbertson. She won the, the 91 shoot off. It looks like there was four, five of them tied and she was the only one that showed up for the show. Hey, good, good way to win.

[A]

And y know, and I think that Heartland grand on Sunday, everybody's been shooting so much and if it's not somebody that's chasing points for champion, a lot of the people don't stay for the shoot offs on Sunday, which, which I think that's, you know, understandable. But I also think it's a little bit of a shame because, you know, they gave away that, that hunt the racket shoot and you know, if you won the overall the all around and you stayed to shoot for that, you could qualify and win it. And I noticed, you know, out of all the people that qualified, only like four or five people showed up, which.

[B]

A lot of them shot. I know Sandy was there. Sandy, Joe, Jack, Ian was there, Sandy.

[A]

Was there, Perry was there. I was there. I watched the whole thing. There was five of them that ended up shooting.

[B]

Is that what it was? So I was in it. But I, I had a deal to do on Monday morning that I, Jody and I had to be to. So I was like, well, if I stick around, it'll be 8, 9 o', clock, I get out of there.

[A]

Well, and you know Stan well enough, you could go up there whenever you want. So it's.

[B]

Yeah, I actually, I actually built hunt the racket, the sporting and the, and the trap fields. I did all that stuff for Stan and, and Stan's a great friend of mine and, and a student, longtime student and just a great all around guy. He's had some health stuff going on lately, folks, and, and we wish him the best. And, and he's, he is a huge supporter of trap shooting, but also a huge supporter of Stockdale Gun Club in the heartland. Grant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So for sure.

[A]

He's a great guy, you know? For sure. And, and I think whoever ended up winning that stuff, congratulations to him.

[B]

Aiden won the, the mule deer hunt and Ian won the pheasant hunt.

[A]

Oh, he did? I didn't know.

[B]

That's what I was told. That, yeah, that's what I was told. That's what Stan actually told me. Because Stan called me and he said, you didn't stick around and shoot. I said, stan, I, and honestly I said, you know what, I gotta go. It just, I was, I was ready to get out of there, so.

[A]

Well, I, I totally, I totally get that. So moving on to the next championship event, we've got the championship singles, Richard Marshall. What are we missing?

[B]

Well, I mean, I'll give you a little. I'll throw a little bit your way. The Heartland Grand Farewell Singles Sunday morning. You know, Zach broke another hundred and Zach did win the shoot off. It was a long shoot off because Bruce Davis and Krausy left. So it was long because I had to wait.

[A]

I had to wait all damn day to check in for that one because I'm like, well, if these guys want to shoot, I'll shoot. And I. And I skipped that on purpose. I didn't need to boast on my farewell singles 100. It's not my biggest title in the.

[B]

World, but it's okay, you know, But.

[A]

I will say it is a very nice buckle. I don't know who donated it, but it was very. A very nice.

[B]

That was donated by. Here, let me look at that. Because we need to give them a shout out. That was.

[A]

I'm pretty sure, I think Gooch donated it.

[B]

Well, it was, it was the Gun Club, I think. Let me give me a second. I'm pulling up the program.

[A]

But, but going into that, my concern on that day was not winning the farewell singles. My concern was holding my 99 average because these guys, these guys are being very aggressive at me at the bar.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Not these guys. We, we talked about it. Now there was someone in our group that said, good luck, Zach, on Saturday morning singles. And you dumped one in the first 15 and you looked at me and you were like. And I said, I ain't missing none. And we made it through. But going back to the. The farewell singles, it was by the King and Gun Club, which is just outside of Indianapolis. Nice club, folks. If you can get there to shoot any of their shoots. It actually is Michael Gooch's home club that he shoots at.

[A]

So I think it was him that, that did that with that.

[B]

Yeah, the King and did and great club. I did some lessons over there and they're great bunch of guys at that club. So.

[A]

So moving on. You know, the, what we were discussing, it was kind of a funny story, I guess is the fact that, I mean, early in the year I had missed something like 24 or 25 targets. Early on, like in the first thousand targets, I mean, it was, it was bad, but just making some adjustments and figuring stuff out. But I, I'd figure it out after the grand that if I had run three 1 hundreds at the Heartland grand and all 99s after that, I would be able to hold exactly a 99 average. And if any more than that would raise it above that. And so the first three days, I broke 100. 100, 100. And then the fourth and the fifth day, I broke 99.99. Going into Saturday's singles, I'm like, okay, guys, I've got the 99 average. And they were all like, yeah, but can you hold it? Because Saturday as going into the singles championship, it was one of the windiest days that I've ever seen at Stockdale's. I mean, Ricky broke 200 straight. And I'll give it to him, he broke them as clean and as good as you could break them. And I ended up breaking a 199. I missed like number 15 or 16 out. Like he said, 15. It was number 15, number 15 and, and, and ran the rest. And he ended up being alone with a loan 200 for champion. I ended up being alone with a 199 for runner up.

[B]

Or you were tied with Cole Henning, but Cole.

[A]

Cole Henning, but he's category. Yeah. Loan lone open 199 for the day. And then, you know, that was, that was cool. And then I, at that point didn't really want to shoot Sunday singles by any way, shape or form. But, but, because I'm like, I'm good. But, but, but they said, you know what, you got to shoot Sunday singles because if you don't, then you're no good. And I'm like, all right, so I got to go out and shoot.

[B]

I didn't think they said that.

[A]

Well, either way, I went out there and, you know, basically everybody's wanting me to fall flat on my face in these 100 singles. And I laced up.

[B]

I knew you had. I watched you shoot. Because, folks, I did not shoot him on Sunday morning. And I did watch them shoot a little bit because they shot right out in front of the camper. And so I was sitting at the table, got up and I looked, I said, oh. So I watched for a little bit. And Zach, I mean, he was working harder than he worked the day before.

[A]

I was. I was locked in. This was the last hundred singles of the year. I'm like, I gotta hold this 99 average. I'm not gonna hear Joey and Rich and all these guys talking crap on me if I don't do this, so. And it was windy. I mean, these targets were everywhere, I think. I think Rich Bullard and Herbie had like a 95 or 96 on that. Yeah, on that event it was pretty, it was pretty salty.

[B]

Yeah that was because you guys, everybody kind of struggled on the, on the farewell singles.

[A]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was a farewell that I will not forget. Thanks Dale. Moving on, moving on to the other winners, you know, class winners. Joe Brumfield. Congratulations. Double A Samuel Simons won A. Randy Hill won B. Randy Hill's winning all kinds of stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Chris Howell 1C Gerald Gideons 1D. And for lady one Shelby Skaggs won lady champion with a lone 197. She beat the filled by two birds so that was kind of cool. Sandy Diaswaldo Diaswal champion of the lady two with Sandra Joe Jack winning runner up sub junior was Aiden again with a 192. Camry one 188. Wyatt debris broke a 196 and beat the field juniors by four birds.

[B]

That's which Kane Kane was. There was only four of us in the morning that broke hunters and Kane.

[A]

Was one of them.

[B]

And he said that second hundred, he said they were just everywhere and they.

[A]

Were, you know, hey Kane, they were everywhere. And I had to lace up my sneakers to run the back 185 because these guys were on my ass. And I was like I ain't, I ain't letting that happen. I could shoot these single. I, I was dug in and so tired on that last box of singles.

[B]

You, you thought I was going to come back to you on that last five. And I said I just kept picturing that target is Mongo. Yeah.

[A]

You see my face on it. I said if I keep, if I keep pressure on this guy all day maybe he'll come back. But once he got to the last five I said there's no chance. I said he's going to run these things, take my Lewis money and ruin my day. And just that's just kind of how it worked out.

[B]

And then we, we, we got the junior gold. Cole Henning 199. We talked about he was two over the field. Matt Michael Day and Ian tied and, and looks like Michael won by forfeit. And then sub vet Bernie Merklewitz 198. George Haas 197 for runner up. And then vet Dan Gris 196. And it looks like there was three vet runner ups with 195 and Gary Lynn style won that shoot off. And then the old senior vet was Robert Newman with a 196 and Leonard Jones 196. But Newman won that one.

[A]

Well there you go. Yeah, the new man, new man We, I don't want to go through the whole list, but I do want to give a special shout out to event 17, Jason Krause singles. Justin Debris emerged as the champion. So congratulations, Justin.

[B]

Listen, Justin had a good shoot, you.

[A]

Know, he, he really did.

[B]

He's shooting his, his new blouser that he got and he shot it well, broke several hundreds in the singles and also. Yeah, and that in that field that Jason Crowley singles folks. I mean there was.

[A]

Everybody ran them damn thing.

[B]

20. Yeah. And he, he was the only one to win and by breaking 100.

[A]

Well, yeah, because he broke that hundred and then there wasn't very many hundreds on Saturday's singles in that first hundred because it was windy and so that first hundred, he just wiped everyone out. I mean they were. They gone. But that's.

[B]

Yeah, but he also, he was runner up. What was it in the prelim handicap?

[A]

Yeah, he was shooting. He was shooting really good. I mean, I'm not going to say. I mean this is one of the better shoots that I've seen him shoot in a minute and he just shot fantastic. And I think that gun is working really, really well for him. If he can keep worth it. I think that's going to be, that's going to be good. So how long are you going to shoot it for?

[B]

Are we taking a bet?

[A]

I say we just, we just don't bet and then we see what happens.

[B]

We just don't bet and see what happens.

[A]

We just see what happens. The, the next major event would be the Heartland Grand Doubles and Joey Charnigo and Richard Marshall were the only two people that broke hundreds. And, and then Joey ended up running 20:20 in the shoot off. Ricky went 20:19 and you know, great shooting for both of them. Ricky got runner up, AAA. David McAllis got AAA champion and Herbie Lewis got AAA runner up. Myself and Ian Derek decided not to shoot off that shoot off. So let them go out and gunfight for that. And they, they fought valiantly and hard. David Swigert, double A champion. Justin Debris, double A runner up A class. Jordan Lentz, champion A class runner up. Brian Zick, Jackson Anderson, B class champion. Bo Douglas, B class runner up. Lewis Sega Bark, C class and Gary Redden, one C class runner up D class was Mark Banner and Jeremy Keenan was the runner up. So I'll let you take over the categories.

[B]

The categories lady one, Brianna Thompson, she won the shoot off. There was three of them, Shelby and Rayleigh, Shelby Skaggs and Rayleigh Bishop and she broke the only 20. And then those two flipped and looks like Shelby won the flip. And then lady two champion was Sandy Jo Jack. Shelly Heitner runner up 95 to 94. Sub junior champion Barrett Debris 96 over Gavin Wolf, sub junior runner up with a 92. And then junior Kane Packer 99. And then Stuart Caden Hodge was runner up. There was three of them though. Alexis Fernand and Weston Anderson. And he was runner up there. So junior gold Ian Lawrence, 99. Michael Day, runner up 98. Perry Weiner, 98. And David Bacon, the Baconator out of the Baconator. The Baconator. You know, David had a good shoot also, but Perry won that shoot off 20 to 19 vet champion Frank Sick with a 99. And then Dan Gris was runner up with a 97. And vet. And then senior vet Gerald Demuling 98. And then Michael Westjohn was runner up with a 97. So good scores. I mean the doubles were a little sporty.

[A]

The doubles were sporty. I mean it wasn't, it wasn't the easiest hundred we shot all week, but it was nothing as sporty as what we got into on Saturday and Sunday's singles. I mean Sunday's handicap. The weekend just really blew a lot. I mean it was, it was very windy Saturday and Sunday at the Heartland. We had pretty calm weather the rest of the week. And I would say overall the targets were great. I mean wind affected on the weekends. But even though it was affected, they were still breakable. I mean, obviously Ricky broke them. So you know, it shows that can be done. But, but it was just, it was just moving around folks. And, and that teaches you trigger control. It teaches you really seeing the target and staying in the gun well and, and just going where it is, not where it's supposed to be. And you know, Ricky did a good job of that.

[B]

Yeah, no, I, I appreciate that, Zach. It was, we had a good squad. You know, it was, it was me and, and Bullard and Herbie. Herbie Lewis and then myself and then Justin.

[A]

Yeah, J.

[B]

Bone. Yeah, we did. We had a great squad.

[A]

Hey, Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a real quick break and we got to thank Ron Prescott from Mid State Precious Metals for everything they do for the trap shooting community coast to coast for all your gold and silver buying needs. And on top of that new announcement, they're a sponsor of the 126 grand American.

[B]

Finally he said it right, folks. Grand American. Yeah. Ron is a great guy. He's a sponsor of the Back Fence Shootout at Nevada State Shoot and Ohio State Shoot. And also we Got our gold for our trap talk event at Nevada State shoot and the 77th annual Nevada State Shoot. They bought all theirs from it. 680 ounces of silver, to be exact. But folks, you're missing out if you're not there.

[A]

That's a lot of silver. And honestly, if you're not buying from Ron, you're probably overpaying. So whether you're buying it for your gun clubs or your shoots or for your personal use, you got to give them a try because they're big supporters of the trap shooting nation, so it's awesome. All right, trap talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line, ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[B]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structure, structural, land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[A]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[B]

Yeah, his dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support it. Really appreciate it.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ata, White flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[B]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there, all the reps. You know, Bill Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow. Everything they do for the sport and all the shoots. Really appreciate it.

[A]

They're always there. They're always trying to make a better target, and they're always supporting the game that we love so much. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

The. Those guys shot every target. I just shot the high overall targets, which could have cost me in the end, but, well, we'll look at that.

[A]

Here in a minute. But the biggest things that I do want to touch on before we skip out of the Heartland grand is, you know, Dell does a great job. There's free dinners every night. They've got more all American points than any other satellite grand as far as events go. So you can get a lot of points in, you can get a lot of targets in, you can make up a lot of mistakes and fix your 98, 8, 9 averages in singles when you get to the heartland.

[B]

So 9903 is what you ended with.

[A]

9903, baby. I ended up. I ended right over the bubble. So that's. That's good. And the other thing I want to do a little shout out to is. And this was a courtesy to Mr. David Bacon himself. He told us about that red smokehouse in town. Man, we went and had three dinners there. And not that I don't like all the other places that we eat around there, but it was really, really, really good food. And if. If they're open and running next year for the Heartland Grand, I mean, you guys need to go down there and check it out. The Mac and cheese was great. The steaks were great. The nachos were great. Everything was fantastic. And I don't even know how many of those cucumber BlackBerry Moscow mules I had, but.

[B]

But blueberry.

[A]

Blueberry, cucumber.

[B]

I'm not. No, I didn't have the cucumber. I just had the blueberry. Justin. And I did. And. And let's just say that it was like, drink a Kool Aid.

[A]

I was. I was in heaven. I was like, damn, these things are. These things are great. And then once I realized that Rich was paying for the tab, I started to really tilt them back. I'm like, oh, that's. It's on.

[B]

Well, I. I know. Yeah. Well, when. Yeah. When Rich said, I got this, I said, oh, this is gonna be bad.

[A]

Well, the problem. And here's some other backstory, because I'm not that way. I did get the first four nights dinners for everybody. And everybody says, oh, it's hey, it's team Ninini night again. And I'm nene night again. It's four in a row. And so the last one, Rich is ordering this bourbon, and he's really pounding.

[B]

He's hit good. He's.

[A]

He's hitting me good. And he says, yeah, this is definitely a team and any night. So after four nights of this abuse, I finally get to throw some punches in on the last night. And Get. I was there.

[B]

I was only there for two of those nights. Okay. And I will say that it was, that it was Justin and Rich, they were really. It's Team Nanini night and so. But yeah, Red, the owner of Red Smokehouse, she did a phenomenal job. Her staff and they have a wonderful upstairs that we, we can share the picture of me and Rich and Zach behind the bar. Just a great place and food was phenomenal.

[A]

Well, the other thing, and I think we're going to do that next year is she said if we call in advance, we could probably reserve that upper bar area and do like a little cocktail hour. So I think next year I'd like to like, do a little, little trap talk cocktail hour up there and see who, how many people want to come up and, and, and drink those blueberry mules with us. So you never know we're going to do. We, we like to have fun. So we like Heartland Grand. Great time, great trophies, great dinners every night.

[B]

And hey, let's not skip over the. On Monday night they do the buddy buddy shoot and under the lights. And then Tuesday night this year was the Fast Eddie slider. Yeah, I, I got a shoot in that.

[A]

And you ended up winning it.

[B]

Yeah, well, me and Krause, they tied with 98s and then by longer reverse, I won. But we got the same amount of money, so that was a great time, Dale. I mean, it's fun, especially shooting white targets again under the lights. You know, that was great. And then they do the, the national pump them doubles event. You know, he does the silver shootouts and stuff. They did the wobble event on Thursday night. So folks, if you can, I would really like to see, get another 30 or 40 plus shooters that have never been to Stockdale Gun Club.

[A]

It's like the field of dreams. It's like I'm waiting, I'm waiting for Leo to walk out of the corn. You know, I'm like, I love it. I love it. There you have the nostalgia of it. It brings you back to what old school trap shooting is.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And, and the targets there, you know, they'll keep you paying attention. Especially like in the doubles. I mean, it's a good set of doubles, but they do move a little bit and you just have to pay attention to what you're shooting there. And really it keeps you honest on, you know, working for it instead of just, you know, you know, two targets in the same spot every single time. So yeah, it's absolutely, it's a good time. So moving forward, I want to talk a little bit about the All American team standings right now, they have condensed it. And for the people that don't know what that means, because I'm sure there's a lot of people that have no idea what the All American team is or how it works or what's going on. But in this deal, you get to use seven shoots. So there's a lot of people that have 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 shoots that they go to all year.

[B]

And.

[A]

And all those points go into the All American point system. And throughout the year, people might see someone sitting really, really high on the deal, but they have a lot more shoots than somebody else. So right towards the end, they do something called condensing, where they bring it down to the top seven shoots that you had, and it actually shows the ranking of where you're at before they release the team. Now, team, what else could potentially change the ranking for here? Requirements, Right?

[B]

Yeah, looking at it would be requirements, but I think when she drops it, when Kathy Key drops it to the final seven, the requirements are included in that. So I think this is just how it is. And people can check if there's an issue or they think there's something wrong, then they need to get a hold of. Of Kathy. But by the time this is released, it'll already be finalized because it's. It's finalized on September 10th. So.

[A]

So we're not going to go through and list every single name of every person because that's just too daunting. But I think there are some highlights that we want to mention. So now if we look at the open category, and this is unofficial posting, but it looks like Dagan's gonna Captain with a 28.99.

[B]

Captain for sure. That you can take that to the bank.

[A]

I would think Ricky knows. Ricky knows who's going to be captain. I would say that that's a pretty good. Yeah, he was over.

[B]

He was 300, like, 40 points ahead of me when I left the grand, and there was really no way for me to catch him. So, yeah, he's 340 ahead. And then after. I didn't realize this, but Ian, Derek and myself were one point apart.

[A]

Yeah, I can't believe that. So. So. And we can kind of talk about this. But, you know, Ricky got second with a 2570, and then Ian got third with a 2577. Literally one points difference. And so, you know, like an example, when I told Ricky on Sunday for the farewell singles, I'm like, hey, you know, maybe you should shoot the farewell singles with your squad because it would be nice for you to support us. He's like, nah, I don't need those farewell singles. So this time Ricky Marshall gets lucky again because of good clean living, obviously, and gets to be second.

[B]

Broke 100.

[A]

If you would have broke 199, he'd have beat you. And yes, and you also gotta say thank you to me, Bruce Davis and Krause for breaking hundreds because that, that.

[B]

I will thank Mike, Dennis Krause, Bruce Davis and Brian Zick.

[A]

Not me, though.

[B]

I will thank. I knew you were going to do it. I mean.

[A]

No, it is what it is. It is what it is. No, but, but yeah, it comes down to it's so thin. I mean, you look at the thinness of that, that's one point between second and third. And I mean, that might not make a big deal to some people, but it might make a big deal to you or me or someone else. And I just think you have to keep fighting all the time. I mean, just.

[B]

We could talk a little bit about this right now with the all American team. So it's all a score based. So there's no like, win. So the way Dale has everything set up so like the Jason Crouze singles, there is a champion. So the hundreds in that aren't guaranteed the five points. Justin got the five points. All the other hundreds got four points, the 99s got three points, and then the 98s got two points. So when every other event didn't, that does not have a champion. The 100. No matter if you win the AAA trophy or your eighth out of the hundreds, you get the five points.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Me personally, I don't agree with that. I think in order to get all American points, you should have to win a trophy. That's how I've always felt. And I'll. That's how I'm always gonna feel. I don't.

[A]

Yeah. And I think. I think that if we were going to keep it the way that it is, which I think that it's very uniform and I think the reason why they changed it from what it was to what it is is because there were some gun clubs that were giving five trophies down and then some gun clubs that were giving one. And so like, it's like you go to Tucson and there's 8, 000 people and you got one trophy, you got one trophy to shoot for. And then you go to Southern grand, you go to Florida and there's 10 trophies down and there. So I understand why they Unified it. I get that. But what I think needs to be the next unification is do we unify the champion runner up point system on every single event at every single shoot. So, so an example, like you said, some of the events at Dale's, there is no champion. So if you break 100 straight, it's five points. I think all of the events should either have a champion across the country or none of them should have a champion across the country. And the reason why I like that champion across the country is because that automatically puts everything down one more point level, you know, consistently.

[B]

So you could, you could, you could block them. Yeah, but look at categories. So every category has a champion. So not unified. It's just the Open that is, it's.

[A]

Just the Open that's kind of diluted, if you will. And, and so I, I would tend to agree with Rick on this one. I think, you know, it's going to lower the points a little bit, but maybe that's not a big bad thing. The next, the next race is the lady one race. And that is another tight, tight race. It looks like Elizabeth Turns from Ohio is going to get captain, but Shelby skaggs had a 32 27. So 69 point, 69 points. You know, for a whole years of shooting, you could find 69 points in one event that the, the clay target. The clay target or the, or the grand doubles or any one of those events. Well, that's the difference.

[B]

And you know, Liz didn't get to finish the shoot at Ohio. Her, her mom broke her ankle and I think I saw in three places. So they had to leave and get her to the hospital and, and she took care of her mom. So, you know, well wishes to her mom on a speedy recovery of. Yeah, that I'm sure that's not fun at all. So. But yeah, she still came out being she's gonna be captain then Shelby be second and, and Kaya will be, you know, third. So.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's just, it just shows again the tightness of the competition.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the lady 2 Captain Sandra Jo Jack looks like she's gonna win with a 32:59. Looks like Debbie came in second with 3,099 points. Obviously great shooters.

[B]

And now look at Shelley Heitner 29.99.

[A]

So yeah, so 100 points.

[B]

Jackie Schnellenberger 2904. So just a couple hundred points. So it's all close.

[A]

And, and it's all very, very close.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Sub junior category. Channing Garrett one looks like it's going to be the captain with 3281. Then Barrett debris, our little buddy, he got 2771. And in between him and the next person was Chase Dobrisky and it was at 608 points. 608 points difference. So there was a big jump in between the two. So there was some, some gapping there for sure. Let's see what's next. Ricky, we've got Sub Junior. We've got.

[B]

Hold on, we got Sub Junior. But on Sub Junior we'll give a quick shout out to our show sponsor, Outlaw Engineerings. Cooper French, he's second team and I see him. Yeah, Coupe's going to be on second team this year. Even with all his eye issues still not getting any better. But he did just break his first 200 straight.

[A]

Yeah, he did.

[B]

Congratulation.

[A]

That and, and hashtag, Where's Coop? Coop's 13th on the all American team.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's where he's at.

[B]

Coop did good there. Now Junior category, where we at?

[A]

June, here's another big jump and obviously. Well, yeah, back to back to back to back. Now this is number four captains in a row.

[B]

Wyatt, three time Sub Junior captain now he's made the, the Junior team and, and it was a close race after the grand and they were headed home and Weston and, and Alexis Fernand headed to Ohio and Wyatt, they got to St. Louis and instead of making a left turn to come home, they made a right turn and stopped and picked up George Lee and headed to Ohio. And Wyatt pretty well dominated Ohio. I mean he won the.

[A]

Oh, he crushed it.

[B]

He crushed it.

[A]

Yeah, he beat everyone in Ohio. So he shot fantastic and ended up with 2900 points. So there was gap here, 2588. Now that gap could have been a little lower if Wyatt didn't go to Ohio. And Weston shot well, but he shot so good at at Ohio that he actually picked up points.

[B]

He did well. And I, I looked at the points and I kind of analyzed a little bit and Weston would have had won every event.

[A]

All right, Trap Dock listeners, we got to take a real quick break and I've got something that I'm so excited to announce. Trap Shooting USA has now become the official magazine of the trap talk podcast.

[B]

No, it's not only Trap Shooting usa now it's Winging Clay Life, Lady Outdoor Lifestyles and Clay Shooting usa.

[A]

I'm just really excited because they make such a high quality magazine. I mean if you guys haven't had these magazines and you actually get to touch them in your hands, they've got really thick paper, they're really glossy and they keep it really cool. I mean, I just love it.

[B]

The traveling Guns Smith. And then in this newest episode, we have.

[A]

Oh, man, look at, look at those. Look at those handsome guys. I love this. I love it. I love it. All right, Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a quick break and we got to welcome a new sponsor to the show. RGS Bore stripper. It's a great product. Ricky. Tell them how they can find it.

[B]

Go to their website, rgsguncleaner.com you can get the 18 ounce bottle, free shipping, 28 ounces bottle and you get the 2 ounce travel box bottle and it's free shipping also. Or just get the little two ounce bottle for travel.

[A]

Yeah, they sent me some of this product and I use it on my Craig off choke tubes the other day and it got the plastic out like in a minute and it was super cool and super good. So if you like cleaning your gun, you like eliminating plastic and you like shiny bores, give them a try for sure. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

[B]

Yeah, we'd really like to thank John Weber, the owner, for the support. He's doing an awesome job.

[A]

Yeah, we really want to thank John. We appreciate the support of the show and anybody that supports trap talk, you guys need to support them and get this stuff because it's awesome. Hey, trap Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay shoot management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean, they've got majority of the satellite grands. Majority the state shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You could see your squad if they paid. You know, you could see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal.

[A]

They're just. Ricky knew how much money he made before he even got off the line. He was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I know they're. They're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[B]

Yeah. Cole, Larry Cushman been longtime supporters of myself and, and I've Been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance and literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great. They're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife animals and that such and your guns. It's just a great.

[A]

It's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got those Craig offs, you got to keep them insured. So. Oh, with that being said, let's get.

[B]

Back to the show which no matter who you are, that's tough and you know, so that deal. But yeah, Wyatt was first, Weston second, Mason Bartlow, which Mason had a great grand.

[A]

He shot fantastic.

[B]

Yeah, he was third, Rory Lee fourth. Jackson James had a great grand, you know, he was fifth, Michael Gates six. And then my, my boy Tyler, this is his last year as a junior. He's moving into junior gold. He was seventh. All this should be.

[A]

That's what wonderful.

[B]

Yeah. Then another show sponsor, George lee. What's George? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12. So it'll be on second team but shout out to George.

[A]

Everyone did really well and I mean a lot of these people had a lot of firsts this year. I mean they're two hundreds and singles or grand slams and things like that. And it was just like, you know, it was really cool to watch the season and see it unfold and see where everyone shook out for junior gold. No surprise here, but Ian Lawrence is the captain. Cole Henning would be second and there's about a 600 point difference between them, Tyler Hondur and then, yeah, 800 point difference between him and Tyler Hondle. So, you know, that's pretty well spaced out. Ian Cole and Tyler, good shooting to the three of them for sub vet. Captain is Carl Chadwell with a good little lead over Tim Reed. Couple hundred points. Couple hundred points. But you know, our good friend Trey Wilburn was third and I got to give a shout out to him because if you look at who shot the best at the grand in sub vet, it was Trey Wilburn by far. So you know, you've got guys that captain, you've got guys that, you know, place on the team here, there and the other thing. But I personally think, you know, and I don't know how they're going to do this or what, what it needs to happen. But you know, there's so many events at the grand that don't count. Like the 2600 doesn't count for points and the 1500 doesn't count for points, and the 500 singles don't count for points and the 500 doubles don't count for points. And you got all these things that are like these, these big long, grandiose events. And like Trey won all of those, right. And he didn't get points on any of them. And so, you know, I can understand.

[B]

The, the Super 500 maybe not counting in each deal, but we're all shooting them. Okay, But I think the 1500, if you're gonna, if you're gonna throw targets in the Grand American, everything should count. And the, and the biggest complaint I have and I'll express it here is the 2600. You win the 2600 and you get a little box. Okay? Now for people out there that don't know this, the 1500 was sponsored by Mid State Precious Metals and Dagan Voightman won the 1500. Ryan Glow was second. I was third. I want a 10 ounce bar of silver for third. Ryan won a 10 ounce gold coin and Dagan won a quarter ounce gold coin for change.

[A]

Yeah, and that's badass, you know, and, and that's, I mean, that's a heck of a trophy, right?

[B]

And I think, I think, I think the 18 is, to step it a little bit especially well, 2600.

[A]

I think that the 2600 is, is in my mind the hardest trophy to win in the country. And I think that you should definitely put points on it, first of all. Second of all, I think this is my own personal opinion and you know, and I don't have any skin in the game. I think you should get a ring for the 2600. I really do. I think that it's the highest overall that there is to win and. Yeah, you know, and it's the toughest. I mean, to be able to shoot for 11 days and compete and beat everyone at that level. It shows the drawn out consistency of the shooters. And I'm a big fan of that now. Will it happen? I don't know. But I think, you know, I think if you look at this stuff and you look at like the way that Trey shot, you know, I'm not saying Carl's a bad shot or Tim's a bad shot. I mean, Tim was on the show, he's in the hall of Fame. I mean, I'M not putting anybody down, But I will say, you know, you can kind of look at who rises to the potential at the grand, and there are some people that shoot the grand better than other shoots. I mean, you can't necessarily make all this on just the grand, But I think the grand does have a heavy weight to it because, you know, you can get all the competition factor there. You know, all of the guns are going to be there at the ground. And if you're winning at the grand, I think that it's a little bit more important than if you're winning at, you know, some little local shoot or local ATA shoot or state shoot that's a little smaller, where you don't have as much competition. Yes, that's my own personal opinion, but.

[B]

No, I agree with you 100 on that and that that's part of the. The problem is I. I think we need to. To showcase our. Our shooters a little bit better. And in a situation like this, you know, the. The 2600 is, you know, the people that are shooting, they're wanting to win that 2600. Okay, correct.

[A]

You know, it's a big deal. And. And furthermore, you know, I was at. I was at Dale's, and I was walking through his house, and I was seeing all of his accolades and all of his trophies from the past. And the thing that I thought was cool is all the all American teams in the past, there was a little bit of a better presentation than what we get now, which is just a certificate and a pin. You know, he had some plaques, and they weren't like the nicest plaques in the world, but they had his name engraved on it. They had the amount of points they had the year. I think that something along the lines, if you're going and you're traveling all around the country and you're spending all this money on this all American team, and the prize at the end of that is the hat, the pin, and the certificate. I would think that maybe. And maybe you just reserve this to the first team. But I think on the first team alone, if you had a plaque made for each of the shooters or if you had, you know, some sort of jacket or something that they could actually have and be proud of and utilize. It's really, really hard to utilize just that certificate. And, you know, and it's, you know, yeah, you can have it framed and you could hang it and everything, but even if they were going to give a certificate, they could frame it and have it ready to go where you could put it on your Wall.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, at the bare minimum, just do a little bit more for it. Because, I mean, these are your people that are shooting the most targets around the country. These are the people that keep this thing going and spend the most money in. In daily fees and registration, all that other stuff. So that's the way I look at it. You know, will they change it? I don't know. I don't know what the logistics or the cost is on, on, on adding that, but I would think, you know, what is. What is all the money that's coming in, in the year and where could they put a little bit to make the shooters feel a little bit more appreciated? That's appreciated. That. That's my thought, so.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. Because I just looked at all the. I looked at all that 2600 stuff and you know, the last three years, Dagan has won the last three years.

[A]

I guarantee Dagan would vote for a ring on that thing.

[B]

Yeah, well, hey, I've won it twice, so, you know, but I've never.

[A]

I've never won it and I vote for it. So there you go. But.

[B]

Well, it's just something I think we need to, you know, they need to step back and take a look at for sure for.

[A]

And if they don't do a ring, then at least do a nice trophy. Like just do, you know, do a, do an eagle or do. Do something that's a little bit like, okay, I just won the largest overall, the biggest target overall in the United States. There's no bigger overall than there. It's the 2600 and that's a big deal. And I think, you know, it should almost be like with John Slinker would come in with one of those WWE buckles that you sling over your arm. You're just like obnoxiously huge. But at the end of the day, it's the biggest overall in the country with the best shooters. So if you win that thing, that's, I mean, a big deal in my mind. Now moving on to veteran Mike Grady from New Mexico. One captain with a. Looks like. Yeah. Am I right or am I. Yeah, am I right here? Yeah, Mike Grady. Yeah, Mike Grady got captain Ron Bliss.

[B]

That's of the veteran.

[A]

Mike Grady got. Captain Michael Hathaway got runner up. Ron Bliss got third is what I'm seeing. Is that correct?

[B]

Yeah, that's what it looks like. I'm just. Everything kind of slowed down a little bit here.

[A]

It did for me too, for whatever reason.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the senior veteran, we've got Mike Westjohn Tim Robb and Mike Dennis in 1, 2, and 3 positions. And West Jaunt. West Jaunt dominated it.

[B]

Hey, back up a second. This is wrong. To what the veterans wrong.

[A]

What's wrong with it? Oh, I could see that now. Tank's in there. Why is it moving around?

[B]

She's on there right now.

[A]

Oh, she's adjusting it. So, folks, apologies, but Kathy Key is adjusting the points as we speak, so we might not have the correct numbers on the veteran.

[B]

Yeah. Because the open team is back to me being on top of. All right, folks, we need to take a quick second and get to a new show sponsor, Big Red Motorsports. Big Red. They're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[A]

Now, I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by side. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the autumn Grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters. They love trap shooting, and they're doing a great job.

[B]

Listen, they got can Am, Kawasaki CF Moto Triton trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys. With that being said, let's get to the show.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank one of our show sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch, Jonesburg, Missouri. Rick and Carla Burke. Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[B]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I can do some hunting with you guys and come to your. The annual clay shoot in August right after the grand.

[A]

It's a lot of fun. It's the optimist club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot. They put it on, and it's wonderful. I think last year they had over 100. 100 entries into it. And it's just a good time. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

You're in third place, Zach. Folks. Zach's in third place right now.

[A]

There's some. There's some live editing going on. So with that being said, we might not be able to finish the rest of the show, so we'll just.

[B]

But it was. It was. Tank is. Is the. Is veteran and then senior veteran. I can't remember.

[A]

Mike. West John, I think it was.

[B]

West John was senior.

[A]

Yep. And then chair shooter. I'm pretty certain it's Ziggy.

[B]

Ziggy, Yep.

[A]

Ziggy, by far. So, you know, so we'll. We'll kind of stop from there and, and just move on. But the other thing that we wanted to talk about were the rule changes. And, and Rick, I know you read these already and you're a big rule guy. So what, what are you perceiving the rule changes to be?

[B]

There's a few deals, you know, wheelchair shooters rule with. If you're. You have to be no use of your legs. And if your legs are your primary motion, you can't be a wheelchair shooter. There's a few changes in the, the weight deal. They. It's word changes, what they did. And then the, the biggest one though that I see is the. They went away from the 1300 targets in an overall at a state shoot or other shoots to 13 events.

[A]

Events. Events. And where that's going to make the most difference. As an example, like the Kansas State shoot, they did 200 targets on Thursday's class singles. And so that 200 targets was one event, but it took up two of the 1300 birds. So now in this example, you know, technically you're. If you have 200 bird class singles, you could have 1400 targets now on 13 events or 1500 targets on 13 events. You know, if you throw those 200 birders in there. But that's going to open it up a little bit wider into the week. So for these places that only throw two events a day or 200 targets a day, all American points might be starting on Monday. As early as Monday. Because I know at Kansas it'll. I know that they started on Tuesday, but I think now they're going to start on Monday because they're going to keep that 200 singles on Thursday and then. And it's going to push everything back a day. So I think this is, I mean, I personally think that's a good thing. I think 13 events is more.

[B]

If you do it. I think what they should do is, is 13 is just run three events every day, you know. Well, I mean, why not?

[A]

If they could fit it in. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, instead of 200 singles, do 100 singles. 100 handicap, $100.

[A]

Hey, you know, I like that. You know, I'm never gonna complain about a full program day. I personally hate shooting 200 singles unless it's championship singles. That's my personal opinion. I hate 200 class singles. I think the only place that you do the 200 class singles that even feels halfway okay is the grand.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That, you know, I can understand that. The nostalgia of not changing that. I get it. But you know, at state shoots the last thing I want to do is have 200 birds twice at a state shoot. I don't, I mean, and that's just me. And I know some people will lobby against that because they're like, well, a lot of people want to break their 200 and the more opportunities they get to shoot a 200, you know, the better. So, you know, I, I can understand that point of view, but I just think that most of the shooters that have shot a while aren't going to be tickled to death about another 200 bird event in a week. At least the ones that I've talked to. But maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong people.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's, and that's the, that's the one thing. You know, it. I, I think. Now, Speaking of the 13 events, why can't Vegas throw in a 50 bird handicap event on Sunday morning? Now, we could do a little program change, you know.

[A]

Well, I, I still don't. They, they won't do points on any events that aren't a hundred, 100 targets. I know that.

[B]

I know, but you could still include. No, they do points on it.

[A]

On a 50 birder.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Well, let's just do a bunch of years ago. We'll just do 25 birds.

[B]

No, you can't do that.

[A]

But, but yeah, I, I mean, I think, I think you have to just look at it and say, okay, there's going to be 13 events now and all of those events that are included are going to count. You just have to plan a little bit better. I think it's just a rule change that you have to be aware of. If you're chasing all American points. You don't want to put yourself in a bad spot. So, you know, we had a lot of data this episode. I know, yeah. The listeners, listeners like a lot of the episodes where we're going back and forth and we're answering a lot of shooting related questions. But there was just a lot of stuff that we needed to cover as far as where everyone's ending up, how is everyone shooting and how the heartland went. But we've got a full schedule up and coming. We've got more people that we're interviewing and we've got a lot of fun content coming down the pipe. There's still a lot of shooting left. Me and Ricky are both going to Las Vegas this year, which is going to be fun. And I know we're going to, you.

[B]

Got the Southwest grand coming up next week.

[A]

I'm going to the Southwestern grand next week. So we'll definitely have A Southwestern grand recap, among other things and let you guys know how it went. Hopefully it goes well and we have good weather right now. It looks like it's going to be a little colder than I'd like it to be, but, but we'll see. Maybe we can get blessed with a little bit. Yeah, I need a little warm weather. It's, you know, Ricky always gets the nice easy fluffy shoots and then when I go snow, snow and wind and.

[B]

All this crap, I mean fluffy. Heartland was fluffy on the weekend.

[A]

The fluffy weekend. You know all about it.

[B]

But it is what it is. So no, we'll, we'll see you guys. Vegas. Everybody listen. Get on Pre Squad SOS for the special events for the Back fence Shootout, the Trap Talk gold giveaway. Folks, we're giving away a 1 ounce gold bar and 25 ounces of silver.

[A]

I know, I know. We're going to announce here in a minute and if it hasn't been yet announced, it's going to be announced that if you pre squad for that event in advance, you're going to get entered in for an opportunity to be able to shoot the event again for free. So one lucky winner is going to be pulled and we're going to let them be able to shoot the event twice if they don't break 100 in the first time they shoot it. So make sure you pre squad in advance because there's going to be an advantage to everyone that pre squatted for that event. So if you're going, don't wait to show up pre squad in advance. Get it done, get your hotels booked. I myself will be staying at the Aliante with Mr. Bullard. But it will be, it will be a very good time and I'm excited for it.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. We're looking forward to it. We still got a lot of stuff coming down so good luck everyone out there.

[A]

Happy Friday. Thanks for listening. Like Share Subscribe Send us your questions. Wear your trap dog gear proud and we appreciate all the love and we're march marching into the 2026 target year. So it's going to be, it's going to be a lot of fun. We'll talk to you soon.

[B]

See you folks.

[A]

Good luck and the Trap Talk podcast is brought to you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Nanini Financial we believe in putting people first Sat.