Listener Question Extravaganza - PART 3 - TRAP TALK - E74

Summary

Podcast Title: Trap Talk From The Back Fence
Hosts: Zach Nannini & Richard Marshall Jr.
Episode: Listener Question Extravaganza - PART 3 - TRAP TALK (E74)
Release Date: May 17, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of Trap Talk From The Back Fence, hosts Zach Nannini and Richard "Ricky" Marshall Jr. dive deep into a myriad of listener-submitted questions, offering expert advice and sharing their personal experiences in the world of trapshooting. From equipment choices to shooting techniques, Zach and Ricky cover essential topics that cater to both novice and seasoned shooters. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

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1. Shell Selection for Handicap Shooting

Listener Question by Jackson:
“What should I be shooting for handicap at the 23 yard line for shot size?”

Zach and Ricky delve into the optimal shell sizes and weights for handicap shooting at the 23-yard line. Ricky suggests, “You can shoot a light 8, 11.65, Fiocchi 11.45. If you want to shoot 1200, you can. I don't really think you need to from the 23, but it's all preference” (01:11).

Zach adds, “I shoot a 1200 at that distance just because I always like a little bit more powerful shell. I like seven and a half” (02:05). The hosts emphasize personal preference but agree that lighter shells like 8s or 7.5s are suitable for the specified distance.

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2. Custom Stocks in Sporting and Skeet Shooting

Listener Question by Vincent:
“Why do sporting and skeet shooters not have stocks fitted and made like trap shooters do? What, it wouldn’t it help the shooter to have a modified stock for their field?”

Both hosts clarify that top shooters in sporting and skeet disciplines do use custom stocks, albeit designed differently to suit their specific shooting styles. Zach mentions, “All the top guys do… the way they make the stock or the drop at the comb or the Monte Carlo is different in those games versus trap” (06:20). Ricky adds that unlike trap shooters, sporting and skeet shooters typically don’t use high ribs, leading to differences in stock customization.

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3. Flying with Firearms

Listener Question by Kyle Whittick:
“Looking to travel to some bigger shoots that would be much easier to fly to. And I have no idea about flying with my firearm or ammo. Could y'all explain what you've learned over the years of the ins and outs of flying with your firearms?”

Zach and Ricky provide comprehensive advice on air travel with firearms. Ricky advises, “You can only fly with literally 12 gauge, four boxes. 11 pounds is your max” (08:00), recommending leaving ammo at home and utilizing local resources or purchasing at the destination.

Zach emphasizes the importance of using AirTags in gun cases for security, maintaining proper packaging with sleeves and additional gear, and ensuring compliance with TSA regulations by declaring firearms and using cases with multiple locks. They also stress the necessity of arriving early at unfamiliar or busy airports to account for additional security measures.

Notable Quote:
Zach: “Tip number one, AirTag in your gun case so you know where your gun's at.” (09:00)

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4. Gun Weights of Top Shooters

Listener Question by Sean Cook:
“What are the gun weights of some of the top shooters? I heard that a shooter, Harlan Campbell's gun weighs nearly 13 pounds.”

The hosts discuss the varying gun weights among elite shooters. Ricky confirms the heavy weight of Harlan Campbell's setup, noting it includes substantial shot and lead weight. Zach shares his preference for heavier guns, stating, “I have weight in my stock… I mounted a gun and it probably comes from shooting Ludic so long” (26:34).

They highlight that heavier guns can provide smoother follow-through and better balance, while lighter guns offer quicker movement but may require additional weight adjustments for optimal performance.

Notable Quote:
Ricky: “If you're gonna put weight in it, you need to make it equal. So you need to balance that gun.” (28:53)

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5. Shooting Techniques: Setting Eyes and Driving Through the Target

Listener Questions by John and Bob:
“Does gun hold height affect your left eye?”
“Can you explain the technique of how you set your eyes before you call, pull, and press to the target and then drive through the target?”

Zach and Ricky elaborate on the importance of eye placement and maintaining gun speed to ensure accurate target hits. Ricky explains that "driving through the target" involves keeping the gun moving at the speed of the target, ensuring the front edge is continuously engaged.

Zach adds his method of adjusting eye height based on shooting position, emphasizing the need to allow the dominant eye to cleanly track and shoot the target without obstruction from the gun.

Notable Quotes:
Zach: “When you feel like, okay, my eyes are ready, then you call pull.” (04:30)
Ricky: “Drive through the target, meaning you want to… keep that gun moving.” (70:22)

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6. Equipment Considerations: Shooting Glasses vs. Contacts

Listener Question by Jake Smith:
“I've been having problems with contact lenses while shooting, either drying out or moving around in my eye. I'm thinking about switching to prescription glasses. Do you have any advice?”

The hosts discuss the pros and cons of using shooting glasses versus contact lenses. Ricky recommends prescription glasses over contacts, highlighting issues like contacts shifting or drying out during shooting, which can lead to missed targets. He also touches upon LASIK surgery as a long-term solution, advising consultation with a reputable ophthalmologist to weigh the benefits and risks.

Zach shares success stories of shooters who have undergone LASIK, noting improved performance without the hassle of contacts or glasses.

Notable Quote:
Ricky: “I don't recommend shooting with weighted contacts because your eye moves faster than the contact can move.” (44:35)

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7. General Advice and Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Zach and Ricky emphasize the importance of personalization in trapshooting—whether it's selecting the right equipment, adjusting techniques, or making equipment modifications based on individual preferences and needs. They encourage shooters to experiment, remain confident, and continuously refine their skills to enhance performance.

Closing Remarks:
The hosts wrap up by thanking their listeners, sponsors, and participants, reinforcing the sense of community within the trapshooting world. They also hint at upcoming content and giveaways, maintaining an engaging and interactive relationship with their audience.

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Key Quotes

• Ricky (00:25): “Brought to you by Craig Off.”
• Ricky (08:00): “You can only fly with literally 12 gauge, four boxes. 11 pounds is your max.”
• Zach (09:00): “Tip number one, AirTag in your gun case so you know where your gun's at.”
• Ricky (26:34): “If you're gonna put weight in it, you need to make it equal. So you need to balance that gun.”
• Ricky (70:22): “Drive through the target, meaning you want to… keep that gun moving.”
• Zach (44:35): “When you feel like, okay, my eyes are ready, then you call pull.”
• Ricky (44:35): “I don't recommend shooting with weighted contacts because your eye moves faster than the contact can move.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Trap Talk From The Back Fence serves as a valuable resource for trapshooting enthusiasts seeking expert advice on equipment selection, shooting techniques, and best practices. Zach and Ricky's comprehensive responses to listener questions provide actionable insights, fostering improvement and confidence among shooters at all levels.

For more detailed discussions and visual demonstrations, listeners are encouraged to watch upcoming videos and participate in future giveaways hosted by the Trap Talk community.

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Note: Timestamps refer to the position in the transcript provided.

Transcript

[Zach]

Welcome to season two of Trap Doc.

[Ricky]

Brought to you by Craig Off.

[Craig Off]

Welcome back, everybody. We are coming at you with a listener question extravaganza, Part three. We're here to answer all your questions. We appreciate you waiting. You've been patient. We're jumping on it. I've got Zach here, I've got Ricky here. I've got all the questions here. So we're going to jump in and we're going to lead it off with a question from Jackson. And Jackson is asking, hey, guys, what should I be shooting for handicap at the 23 yard line for shot size? So I think we're talking eight, seven and a half here. He's interested in what shell he should be using for his handicap.

[Ricky]

23. I mean, you can shoot a. A light 8, 1165, fiocchi 1145. If you want to shoot 1200, you can. I don't really think you need to from the 23, but it's all preference.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

You know, pick a show you like that doesn't give you a lot of recoil and run with it. I mean.

[Craig Off]

All right.

[Zach]

Yeah, I mean, I'm similar with Rick. I. I don't necessarily think you need a 1200, but I would probably shoot a 1200 at that distance just because I always like a little bit more powerful shell. And yeah, I like seven and a half. Not gonna lie. I mean, just personal preference. I just think you get a little bit of a harder break with the seven halves. If I can get seven and a half, even for singles and doubles, I'll shoot them and I'll really like them. So I'm a. I'm. I'm a fan. I'm a fan.

[Craig Off]

Well, listen, let's. Let's key off of that because, you know, just looking at all the questions the, the fans and listeners are really interested in, and, you know, what you guys are using for the different stuff. So maybe let's just take this opportunity. A couple of things. You know, what are we using for singles, doubles and handicap? Let's just, you know, kind of put that out there for people. Rick, do you want to go first?

[Ricky]

Singles. I shoot the fiocchi Shooting Dynamic 1165 Light 8.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

For singles and first shot of doubles. And then I shoot the white rhino 1250, seven and a half for a handicap and second shot of doubles. I keep it simple. Two shells. I like eights better than seven and a half because you have around 60 to 64 more BBs, and it takes three BB's to break the clay target.

[Craig Off]

Is that for Handicap also though, Rick.

[Ricky]

No, I shoot seven houses for handicap because.

[Craig Off]

Okay, right, okay.

[Ricky]

More energy at the 27 yard line. Yeah. And I would say 25 on back, seven and a half. But you could shoot what? I mean, like I said, honestly, I've known guys that have shot light eights from the 27 and broke 100 straights, so.

[Craig Off]

Right, okay. So that's Rick's. Yeah, that's Rick's setup. Zach, what about you?

[Zach]

I'm a two shell kind of guy, just like Rick. The only difference between me and Rick is I don't shoot a heavy shell on my second shot of double. So I shoot ounce and an 8th light 8sts remington for both shots of doubles and singles. And I'm shooting eights because that's what's manufactured most of the time. I mean, if I can get a hold of seven and a half, I will shoot them. I shot my first 200 straight with seven and a halfs. And I just feel like that seven and a half. I mean, you know, like Rick says, three pellets to break a target. But I feel like every once in a while with a seven and a half, depending on the density of the air, like even one pellet might take a, you know, take a chip off. Or two pellet might take a chip. Two. Two will, two will, two will.

[Craig Off]

The, the, the debate lives on two pallets.

[Ricky]

Three.

[Zach]

Two, seven and a half will take what? We'll take a. Take a chip off my flyer.

[Ricky]

It was three.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach]

That was a different, that was different test, though.

[Craig Off]

Well, we'll, we'll have to let this one ride. Okay, last question, because I think.

[Zach]

Handicap. Handicap. I'm shooting Remington Nitro 27 ounces. Eight, seven and a half. I won't shoot anything less than seven and a half from the fence. I just, I like it.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. So quick question just to, to put a, the last point on this. When do you think and, and Rick, I know it's a lot of personal preference here, but when do you think as, as people are moving back in their handicap? When do you think that transition maybe to that 1250 makes sense? Is it just at the 27 or do you start doing it around the 25? What? I know there's a lot of preference.

[Ricky]

It's a lot of preference because. 1200 or 1250.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

I mean, honestly, it's, it's. Or 1235s, you know.

[Craig Off]

Right, right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah. I think whenever you're going up to that handicap dram, you're just going up to it. So either three dram or handicap. But like when I started shooting nitros, it was at the 24 yard line. So I just like, boom, 24 yard line. I'm shooting nitros now. And I shot him ever since I hit 24 yard line. Before that, I just shot light shells literally all the way back to 24 yard line, light the same shell. But I didn't know a lot. I mean, it only took me the first year to get back to the 27 and, you know, so it was new. Right. It was just like kind of getting in the zone. So.

[Craig Off]

Okay, I think that's great. And I, I did try the light eight and then the handicap shell on the second shot of doubles and I. It's very fun. I don't know what it is, but it's very fun. Okay.

[Zach]

It'll get there in a hurry.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, it does, for sure. Yeah. Thank you, Jackson. We appreciate that question. That was very good to kick us off here. Okay, next question coming in from Vincent. Vincent is asking, why do sporting and skeet shooters not have stocks fitted and made like trap shooters do? What it. Wouldn't it help the shooter to have a modified stock for their field? I, I think their field as in maybe skeet and sporting. Not sure they don't. But what do you think of Vincent's questions here?

[Zach]

They all, all the top guys do. I mean, we were talking with Bobby in Arizona and he says that when he goes down to sporting clays or skeet shoots, I mean, those guys are getting winning stocks on their guns the same way. The main difference that Bobby said is the, the way they make the stock or like the, you know, the drop at the comb or the Monte Carlo is different in those games versus trap. But they're still doing custom stops.

[Ricky]

They're not shooting a high rib like we are.

[Craig Off]

Right, right. So they've got custom stocks. Maybe, maybe Vincent is not seeing, you know, the, the adjustable combs and the big stocks. And so he's thinking maybe they're not shooting these custom stocks, but just because they have a flatter rib, that stock might look a little different. Right, because it doesn't.

[Zach]

Well, yeah, and maybe, maybe Vincent's going to the weekend local sporting clays range. Right. Where everybody's just got a Beretta or, or Benelli or like the new field gun that. Yeah, yeah, you see that there with newbies, but, but you see that on a trap range with newbies too. They don't have like custom stocks most of the time.

[Craig Off]

Yep, sure. Okay, Vincent, thank you for that question. We really appreciate it. Okay, next one coming in is from Kyle Whittick, and he says, hey, guys. Kyle from Mississippi looking to travel to some bigger shoots that would be much easier to fly to. And I have no idea about flying with my firearm or ammo. Could y' all explain what you've learned over the years of the ins and outs of flying with your firearms? Thanks for keeping the content coming. Remember, it's just a trap shoot. All right, thanks, Kyle. So Kyle is thinking about flying with his gun. I can tell you. Leave the ammo at home, I think. Right, Rick? Isn't that number one?

[Zach]

You can only.

[Ricky]

You can only fly with literally 12 gauge, four boxes. 11 pounds is your max. You can fly with. Okay, so, yeah, look at. Maybe a buddy's going to be there, someone you know, and. Yeah, you know, get you ammo and. And. Or a lot of the. The bigger shoots have ammo you can purchase. But off the top of my head, Tucson, Florida, Ohio State shoot. Columbus. Right there.

[Craig Off]

Yep.

[Ricky]

Let's see, for state shoots, you got Iowa. You can fly into Des Moines. It's only, I don't know, a couple hours away, maybe hour and a half. Yeah, let's try to think Vegas.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, of course. For sure. When you guys fly with your guns, I think one of the things maybe we could tell Kyle here is don't you guys use the tags these days to keep an eye on your gun?

[Ricky]

That.

[Craig Off]

That kind of lowers the stress.

[Ricky]

Oh, yeah, trust me. We were in Dubai. Zach was up all night. He was like this. Hey, airport in Dubai.

[Zach]

Yeah. So my top tips tip number one, air tag in your gun case so you know where your gun's at. That's, like, my number one thing. I started doing that, and now I got a lot of people doing it, and I love it. That being said, I also like to make sure that my gun is in a sleeve when it's in the case. So, like, I have an Amer case, but, like, I have these little gun sock sleeves that I put on there because they do toss it around. And, like, there's things that I'll put in my gun case to save weight from my regular bag. So I put my shooting glasses, I put all my wrenches, all my chokes, all that stuff in the gun case so that way I don't have to weigh down my other bag.

[Ricky]

And.

[Zach]

And I'm, you know, barrel sleeving. Put it in things. You got to watch out for that. I've seen problems with people leave snap caps in the barrel. Big, no no. Okay. Don't leave a snap cap or an empty hole. That could trigger tsa. The other one, that's a big common one, is if you don't have an americase something with two locks, you get one of those cases kind of with all the latches. And I went with the airport one day with a guy who only had one lock. You got to have two locks. You got to have a lock on each corner of the case. Minimally you can do more locks. You could do six locks, eight locks. What? Two locks. And if you don't have two locks, you're not getting through tsa. So depending on the airport, I would say if you've done it a bunch of times, like St. Louis, I get there an hour before the flight and that's fine. But if I'm going somewhere where I've never flown or I know it's going to be busy, we just flew to Tampa. Spring break, two hours. Two hours minimum. If you don't know the airport, if you've never done this before, guys, two hours and I'll give a shout out to Southwest. They've never lost a gun for me. I've flown 250 times. The only time I ever had an issue with Southwest, I was going down to Sporting Place Nationals and it didn't come on the plane because it didn't make it, but it came on the next plane and then they paid for a courier and they actually brought it to the gun club for me. So, so they, they pay for all that. You know, you don't have to worry about it. So I've, you know, I'm not, not sponsored by Southwest yet, but I've had really good, really good luck with Southwest. Shameless plug. They've done a really good job.

[Craig Off]

Southwest hat.

[Zach]

Yeah, I mean, if they give me tickets around the country, me and Ricky, I mean, we'll need double seats, but I would, I would be in on that. Southwest, if you're listening, we just need a row.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, just a row. So hey, hey, Rick, on that point with the case.

[Ricky]

I use a tough back.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

U F F P A K. And I have a briley gun sleeve that Riley. I get from Riley. I put barrel, my barrels in it. My receiver, my extra receiver in the, the one pouch in there. I, it's got foam at the bottom. I put it in there. I put my rain shoes in there, my rain gear. I can even roll up my. I use a cabela.

[Zach]

He's got all kinds of stuff.

[Ricky]

I put it all in there and then When I go to tsa, they, a lot of times they think it's a golf bag. But you always declare, number one rule Zach failed to tell y' all. So when you get there, you declare your shotgun. I have known people to walk up and just thought they TSA thought or the agent thought it was a, a gun. And then they, and they're like, oh, I didn't sign anything. And the guy's like, yeah, that's a. No, no with tsa, that's an automatic. Go see someone else.

[Zach]

So tell, tell them you got a gun. I mean and, and make sure you tell them it's unloaded. Make sure you got the keys and the locks for it. And I would say if it's your first time traveling to a shoot, pick somewhere that you could fly non stop so you don't have to worry about your, your gun not making the converting flight. Because the converting flight is where the bad happens. Usually it's not on non stops. If you get there early enough, you get on that plane, your gun gets on the plane. Okay. It's gonna go where I'm going.

[Ricky]

Well, any. Back up a sec. If you're flying somewhere and I fly all over the country with my firearms flying overseas with them, the connecting flight, you make sure your connecting flight is a minimum of an hour and a half to two hours that you're gonna have, you know, a stop. Because if you do. And I've done this, when I go teach and fly, I do sometimes whether it's 40 minutes, 50 minutes and I've had just regular bags not make it.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

So you want to make sure that hour and a half to two hour on a connecting.

[Zach]

I'm a little risky. See, he flies united, so they have to do that because they're a little slower. But that's.

[Ricky]

Doesn'T. Listen, we all don't live in St. Louis. Okay. You have a hub, Omaha. I can fly to Florida, but it flies through St. Louis. Okay. So that's what I would just recommend. But the gun case, number one important thing is get a good quality case.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

And travel with it. Have your stuff in it. Do not, this is my recommendation, do not travel with your shooting glasses in your gun case.

[Zach]

Well, he's prescription so he can't get them replaced. I can get new glasses wherever I go. And if my gun doesn't show up, I'm probably not shooting a loaner gun anyway. So that's my thought to it.

[Ricky]

But okay. That cast to shoot his gun I can just pick up.

[Zach]

Yeah. See, he's so good, he can shoot any gun off the rack. I figure, hey, if my gun doesn't make it there, my, my glasses aren't really going to matter. And I don't have a. An expensive prescription that cannot be replaced in a second. You know, I think that's. And I would say anyone that has a prescription, throw those in your backpack and take them on the plane. Like, don't even put those in your checked bag. Like, if you've got prescription, I would be rolling with that.

[Ricky]

Even when I shot regular glasses without prescription, I never flew with them in my gun case or check bag. They were always in my carry on bag.

[Craig Off]

Too important. Yeah, too important.

[Zach]

We can just buy new stuff. It's not that big a deal.

[Craig Off]

All right, Kyle, thank you. Great question. I. I think that really helped the listeners there. A lot of them are flying for the first time, so get a good case, protect your stuff, keep your glasses.

[Zach]

All airports are good. Just try to stay away from the really little ones.

[Ricky]

No, number one thing two in there that we forgot to mention.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Gun insurance.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

That is important because if they do lose the damn thing, I don't want to pay for it.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

[Ricky]

It's cheap. You give Cole a call or Larry a call at Gun and trophy insurance.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, I. And I just. On your recommendation, Rick. I just recently did it for my gun and Leticia's gun. I had it done in 12 minutes, and it was very cheap for both of those guns for the entire year. So, yeah. Gun and trophy show sponsor. Not a shameless plug. Go and get.

[Zach]

There's no shame in that plug.

[Ricky]

No. Trust me. It'll be your best money spent, folks.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah. I don't think there could be a worse feeling than going out to your car or something and the gun not being there, and then you don't have insurance on it, and your whole life is in that gun case, and you're like, oh, now I got to shoot 1100.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Phoenix, Arizona, years and years ago when I was a kid. Now we did.

[Zach]

That's why Ricky locks everything, including his socks. Now you can't even.

[Craig Off]

You can't.

[Zach]

You can't get any part of it. If you walk away from Ricky, Ricky could borrow your house in some other state. He's gonna lock it on the way out. He says, oh, my. I'm locking it. And I'm like, jesus Christ. I can't get in the bathroom. It's locked.

[Craig Off]

And there's no one in there.

[Ricky]

Listen, I Lock it. And I will take care of your stuff.

[Craig Off]

I like that. All right, Kyle, thank you again. Great question.

[Zach]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky bullshit them. We both love them.

[Ricky]

Yep, best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better, folks, get yourself a Craig up. Your scores will increase.

[Zach]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[Ricky]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[Zach]

Of course. Yeah, the Grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call. All get on their book. It's worth your time.

[Ricky]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[Zach]

With that being said, let's get back.

[Craig Off]

To the show and we. Here's the question. Good evening, Zach and Ricky. Enjoy listening to the podcast and the views of your guests. Could you please demonstrate, if possible, the technique. How do you set your eyes before you call, pull and press to the target and then drive through the target? Would really appreciate the. The above explanation. So maybe a little hard to do in this setting. And maybe we got a future shoot video here that we could put together, right, to really kind of explain that. As you guys know, we're working on that type of content that recently came out. We really appreciate all you guys watching that and supporting those videos. But let's just talk about maybe just the technique of it when you set the eyes before you call poll. Maybe we can just talk about that briefly and then we'll get a video going in the future.

[Ricky]

I mean, yeah, we could. We could definitely do a John. We'll do a video at Vernal. Always there.

[Zach]

Okay, Ricky, you being the expert, you don't even need me.

[Ricky]

Shut up.

[Zach]

You could do it without me.

[Ricky]

But seriously, set the eyes. I mean, another deal of preference.

[Zach]

Everyone's different.

[Ricky]

You got to be able to. It depends on how your saw focus is. You know, you. If you hard focus, everybody perceives things differently. So I just say, make sure you're ready. Don't be bringing the gun down and stopping a call pole. You Want to make sure everything's set. You're looking where you want to look. That soft focus, whether it be narrow or wider, like I said, it's. It's all a. A preference and. And go from there.

[Zach]

Yeah, I feel like, you know, my eyes will click into place when it's ready. They will tell me when it's time to call pole. So, you know, start listening to your body and just mount the gun. And when you feel like, okay, my eyes are, like, ready, then you call pull. There's no, like, specific thing or, you know, for me, I guess, size wise, if you took a quarter, just a whole quarter, I'm probably looking a half a quarter over the top of my gun. And then I'm probably looking to left and right, the distance of the angle of the target on that post. So if I'm on post three, and I know the hard right comes out, you know, you know, two, three feet to the right. The hard left comes out two feet, two or three feet to the left. Whatever that zone of that pie is. I'm trying to cover the whole area pretty close and pretty low to the house where that target is emerging. I want to soft focus, catch it, come out of the house above the size of a quarter, a half a quarter. And then once I see it soft, I'm locking onto it, and then I'm attacking and going in that zone. So that's. That's pretty much what I see. And. And if I move to one, I'm shifting my pie, move to five. I'm shifting my five. But I mean, I'm trying to cover all of that angle so that if I get my two eyes close to the barrel and the hard right comes out on five or the hard left on one, it spooks me, and it kind of like, I like. Oh, and you want to throw the gun. When I back my eyes off a little bit, I can see it come out of the side of the house, and I think that's important.

[Ricky]

So with your pie. Okay, are you. Are you looking at the pie, at the house? Are you looking at just a half a quarter up, out? Because you're not looking at the big pie.

[Zach]

No, I'm not looking high at the pie. I'm looking at where the angle emerges. So I want to see. I want to see the orange as soon as possible. I'm. I'm. So it's not as wide as if you looked up four or five feet. You're way wider. I think that's way too much area to look at. I Want to just kind of see direction. I'm looking for direction of the clay at the base of the house as soon as possible where, where it emerges.

[Ricky]

And then, and then you're moving and that's what thing. And that's what, you know, I think.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. And I. So when we were in Tucson, Rick, and you were working with one of your students and I was doing some filming. And I think one of the things that I have learned by filming you guys as you're doing some of your shooting is it's not this rushed thing when you guys mount your gun. And I think some of us, you know, kind of newer shooters or maybe, you know, kind of shooters who are a little bit newer to the game, think that these top line shooters, like you guys put the gun right up, call for bird, smoke it. It's a two second kind of thing. And it's really not that. Right. You guys are letting it settle in then calling for the bird.

[Zach]

There's very few people that can successively bring the gun to their face, instantaneously call, pole and break the target. Now there are a few people that I've seen, and this is just kind of a shout out to Dan Beniaz. Towards the end of his career, he was almost developing, I would see like almost developing a flinch if he stayed on the gun too long. So for him, he would, he would get his eyes out there and that gun would touch his face and we'd call, pull. And as it's touching his face, he'd keep his eyes out there. And he told me that in the back of his career. And I think there's a couple other shooters, Ricky, I mean, you might know who, but that is Freddie Nagel. Does he go right when it touches his face or it's like, yeah, he.

[Ricky]

Moves the gun down and calls.

[Zach]

But there's a couple people that have kind of said their eyes. If they set too long on the gun, their eyes will come back to the gun. And so they've tricked their eyes by just, you know, right when you're getting ready to call pull, the gun hits pull, go. And your eyes stay out. I find, I find that I look back at the gun when I do that.

[Ricky]

Well, they're bringing the gun to their face.

[Zach]

Correct.

[Ricky]

Instead of where I'm going with everything, you know, I'm like this, where they're doing this. That's all they're doing, right?

[Zach]

Yes, that's it.

[Ricky]

Now me personally, I don't recommend that. Yeah, not a good thing. Because you're gonna, you're Gonna develop. What you're doing is you're bringing the gun. Here it is. It hits. It's already in an upward move, and you're already. You can possibly give it a sustained lead. It just.

[Zach]

It never worked for me. Based on my style. I never could mount the gun the way I want to mount it. I want to get everything still and be ready and then attack. You know, these guys that were shooting it with success, they were shooting flat rib guns, top singles shooting, usually shooting, you know, attack style from the top, where they're mounting the gun and they're shooting it and connecting and breaking it. I mean, Jimmy Heller did it for a while where, you know, it's just kind of that way. And it's not that it doesn't work. It's just that you really need to know how to shoot a shotgun and understand where everything is. All those guys have hundreds of thousands of rounds under their belt.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Yeah. And I. And I would encourage everyone go watch the shooting, handicap shooting singles videos that we recently put out.

[Zach]

And that is a shameless plug.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Like. And subscribe also. But you will. You will see the. Yeah. The time that these guys hold and. And the really. You know, and I've seen, you know, like, Ricky will put his gun up. It's not in the right spot. Rick will remount. And if Ricky will remount, you should be remounting. So. All right.

[Zach]

All right.

[Craig Off]

Anyway, moving on. Great question. Thank you for sending that in.

[Zach]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank some more sponsors. We've got Game Masters. Ricky, you're our guy over there, right?

[Ricky]

Yep. I. I sell every gun you can imagine. We got a ton of Craig Offs, every other brand available. So if you guys need something, let us know. We can hook you up. Worth the shoots. We got vendor buildings in Arizona, Ohio, and then Sparta at the Grand American.

[Zach]

Yeah, I do like sucking up that free AC in Sparta, that's for sure. I mean, it's a good time. Come by and say hi to us.

[Ricky]

That's right.

[Zach]

Also Shot Tracker. I mean, we've. We've had great success with them. Ricky, you've been involved since day one.

[Ricky]

So it's like having a coach on the end of your barrel. It's a great tool Explorer, especially for doubles. That's what I really like it for. You can see the transition moving from the first target to the second target. That's where a lot of people get lost in no man's land.

[Zach]

You know, I love that. And I also love the new software Update the stuff that's coming down the pipe. Those guys are constantly innovating. So with that being said, let's get.

[Ricky]

Back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Next question is coming in from Sean Cook. Excuse me, Sean Crook. He says what? Yeah, Mr. Crook is asking, he is saying what are the gun weights of some of the top shooters? I heard that a rumor that a shooter, Harlan Campbell's gun is, weighs nearly 13 pounds. Thanks guys. Keep up the great content. I love the show. Sean Crook. So we're talking gun weight here. Yeah, thanks, Sean.

[Ricky]

Yeah, there's, I mean my gun probably weighs, I think it's nine pound, nine and a half. I, I, everything's factory on it, but a winning stock. I don't have any recoil reducers. Now he is correct. I think Harlan's does weigh over 13 pounds.

[Craig Off]

Is that stock weight? Is that because he's got a lot.

[Ricky]

Of shot and lead weight in it.

[Zach]

He's got a lot of weight at the back. But he also, he's also, you know, and I've talked to him a little bit about this, so I'm not an expert, but what he's, he's taken weight out in the season as he gets the gun moving more. So he's not always using the same weight. He's changing that based on what he feels. He's moving the gun in that speed. I don't change anything. I have more, I have weight in my stock. I'm heavier than Rick. I'm probably about ten and a half pounds, to be honest with you. Yeah, I mean, I've got 8 ounces in the back of mine and, and I just, I just like the way it feels. It's not that I need it. Yeah, I mean, it's just I, I mounted a gun and, and it probably comes from shooting Ludic so long. I mean, my Monog gun, ludic was like 11 pounds and my by gun was like 13 and a half pounds. So it was one of the heaviest guns I've, I mean the heaviest gun I've ever shot. And so I got used to pushing all that metal and you know, now I just, I feel a little bit more smooth with that, with that heavy gun. Now the downside to it is, you know, you, you can't really make a lot of corrections with the heavier guns in my mind. And you also can't get them to go as fast, you know, like a little, you know, whippy gun. You can move it around and make a little half minute move. But if you're on the target and you're Pushing in the right direction. I also think they follow through a little bit smoother. They're just kind of like, you know, that's why I like that Craig Off. I just like the, the, I like the weight of it and I like that it keeps going. It doesn't stop on a dime, that's for sure.

[Ricky]

Well, the difference and, and I've shot quite a few guns, but the difference between Craig off and, say, a Prozzi. A Prozzi is a lighter barrel gun. It's whippy. I think it produces more recoil. The Craig off the barrel is a little heavier, better balanced in your hands, and I believe it moves better. Now, once you get a Katie moving.

[Zach]

You ain't stopping it.

[Ricky]

It's the inertia moving. Okay. And a lighter gun moves quicker.

[Zach]

Stops quicker. Stops quicker.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Where a heavier gun, it moves and it continuously moves, so. And it's all preference, folks. I mean, I know people that make their guns and, and do it. And I'm a, I'm a fan of. If you're gonna put weight in it, you need to make it equal. So you need to balance that gun. Having five pounds in the stock and an ounce in the forend, that's not going to be good for you.

[Zach]

Well, it creates a, it creates a very whippy tip end. So if you want to create whip in the front, add lead to the back. I mean, but I like things. Mine's pretty much balanced in between my hands. So even with that added weight, for whatever reason, I put it on the hinge bin and I hold it in between my hands and it doesn't fall backwards. It sets level. So, you know, it is balanced. And maybe it's just the type of wood that I have in that stock that I needed. You know, every wood weighs different, too. Different qualities of wood. So Ricky's got that heavy, you know, real nice fancy stuff. I got, I got some good stuff, not gonna lie. But it can't happen with that Ricky Marshall wood.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, well, I, I, you know, my winning stock is English walnut, and it definitely added some weight to the gun for sure, so. Hey, Zach, you brought up an important point that I think the listeners are probably going to key in on here, which is the balance, right. And where you check and test that balance. Could you guys talk really quick about. Because now everyone who's listening to this podcast is going to grab their trap gun and see if it's balanced.

[Zach]

Where.

[Craig Off]

How do they do it? What's a good way to see if the gun is balanced?

[Ricky]

Well, the, basically the middle of Your receiver on your, on your. Basically your, your pen. Okay, Check and see, now the pen.

[Craig Off]

Meaning like when it. Where it hinges open, right?

[Ricky]

Like.

[Zach]

Well, I, I think now, Rick, correct me if I'm wrong because I. It doesn't have to do with where they're holding their hands on the gun too. Like. Yeah, I mean, so for me, like I take half the distance between my front hand and my back hand. So like if you are holding it way out, well, then the center needs to be more forward. Then if you're holding it way in, the center needs to be more in between. But I want it in between my hands. So for me, the way I hold it, my balance is right on the hinge pin. So if you look at the hinge pin on a Craig off where that, that nut is, that's where my center point of balance is. And if you look at my hands, that's literally in the middle of my grip because I'm a little bit more choked back on the gun than Ricky. He's more outstretched.

[Craig Off]

So Rick, when you put your gun in that middle spot, is it balanced? Will it. It stay in that balance?

[Ricky]

Yeah, I mean, I haven't done it in a long time. For me, where I. Yeah, I just. The way it moves.

[Craig Off]

Okay. All right, so I like that. So we're trying to find. And most people will be generally in the same space. You know, there's not too much difference. The forearms aren't that long. But you're saying, Zach, look at where you put your forearm hand and where you have your hand in the back and just try to grab a middle point there and then set it on your hand. See if it kind of balances at that point.

[Zach]

If you want balance, if you want balance. But if you want, if you know that you're going slow to the target, your. Your gun is sluggish, I like to say. Well, then you could add some weight in the back if you know your barrel in the front is whippy as hell. Like I shot a Prozzi for a while and I had a grand America 88 and it was backboard and it had literally, you know, all the metal taken out of the barrel on an already light barrel. A paper thin barrels. They did. It was, I think a briley job where, you know, it's a series 12740 bores on an older gun that, you know, they didn't come out that way. This thing was so light and doubles that as I was shooting the first target, I was already over the second target and I had to Put weight on that. Because for me, even as a younger person, you know, not as big as I am now, I could not keep that gun on. On underneath a target. I could not. And so I threw weight in the front, and I. And now that gun, I'm sure the weight I added in the front probably made it balanced again, but I had to add, like 6 or 8 ounces to the front of the gun, and it was like.

[Ricky]

It was.

[Zach]

It was a wildcat of a gun without that weight.

[Craig Off]

Okay, well, folks, there you have it. Check for some balance. And there is obviously a lot of preference in there, and we definitely. Sean, thank you for the question. We appreciate it.

[Zach]

Sean's the man.

[Craig Off]

Sean is the man. Thank you very much. All right, we are moving on here.

[Zach]

All right, guys, we got to take another quick break, and thanks more sponsors. We got to say big thank you to White Flyer, America's best targets. You make them, we break them. Right, Rick?

[Ricky]

That's right. We got the new eco flyer that we helped design. Myself and she, Sean, Holly. That's out now. Available out of the Georgia factory. That's an awesome target. Look for that, you know, gonna be available hopefully everywhere by 2025. But, yeah, they are best target in the industry.

[Zach]

I'm looking forward to the blue gray shootout this year at the grand, too. That's gonna be a fun event.

[Ricky]

Yeah, it'll. You're in that dude this year, aren't you, Zach?

[Zach]

We both are, aren't we?

[Ricky]

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm in it. I didn't know if you made it or not.

[Zach]

See? Yeah, that's okay. I, I, I. I skated right in there.

[Ricky]

Don't you worry.

[Zach]

But, you know, we got another sponsor we got to thank. Shotguns west. The Pelas, baby. Check out these wings. You, Ricky don't got these. He ain't that stylish, folks, listen, Zach.

[Ricky]

Tries to wear these driving down the road doing podcasts. It's okay.

[Zach]

We still love you when you look good. You don't have to apologize. Remember that not only can you hit more targets, but you could look good doing it. Give Ryan a call.

[Ricky]

That's right.

[Zach]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

So this one comes in from Brandon Himes, and Brandon is asking. So I was listening to Yalls podcast, and first of all, folks, I appreciate the y' alls and you keeping it real and putting my reading out loud skills to the test. All right, all right, all right. Brandon. Brandon Himes. So I was listening to Yalls podcast, and I was Wondering if I should change. So I typically wear crocs, but they are flat footed and y' all said that they weren't the best. Now I have Brooks and I was wondering if you think that that is a better option. We're talking shoes here, Rick. Yes.

[Ricky]

Going to Brooks to Brooks shoes over crocs.

[Craig Off]

Oh, here we go. Brooks cut the check.

[Ricky]

That's right. Adrenaline gtss.

[Craig Off]

Adrenaline gta. That's a nice looking shoe, man. That's a cool looking.

[Zach]

I mean I guess, I guess my question back to this guy would be. Yeah, do you do anything athletic in crocs? Like are you gonna like shoot a basketball in crocs?

[Ricky]

Maybe it's a four wheel drive.

[Zach]

Are you like, like, like I don't know anybody that's tackling anybody in a croc. Like it. I mean unless it's, unless it's in Alabama or something like that. Like then maybe Florida. But, but I mean there's a lot of y' alls.

[Craig Off]

There's a lot of y' alls in this question.

[Zach]

There's too many y' all for, for this time of the day for me right now, but I can say not much. I think, I think that your feet are so important in the game and your shoes are so important. And Ricky's told me forever, Zach, you gotta have good shoes, you gotta have good support. You gotta have. And, and it matters. And I can tell you this. I can track my scores from one pair of shoes to another pair of shoes. And my scores will go down with this pair of shoes versus this parachutes just based on the, the, the toe that you know, the heel like is it higher or lower in the back. So for me, when I pick a set of shoes that I'm gonna wear, I'll buy two or three of the same set. And that's my shoe for that year personally.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. So guys, just diving in a little deeper. We, we prefer a little height in the back. Right? A shoe with a little bit of height in the back.

[Zach]

Not completely flat.

[Craig Off]

Not completely flat. Okay.

[Ricky]

Take a shoe like this. Yeah, please see it?

[Craig Off]

So it's got some height, but it has a little curve up in the front too.

[Ricky]

Yeah. And, but when your feet are on, I mean, you know.

[Craig Off]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

When you push down with those feet, they push. There ain't no curve no more. I said when we push down with our feet, there ain't no curve no more.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Putting some LBs in it. Right curvature.

[Craig Off]

But there are some athletic shoes out there. Like a Nike Air Force One for Example which is a completely flat sole all the way across and it has no movement to it. That's probably.

[Zach]

I don't think, I don't think Jordans. Jordans or Air Force ones or any of those flat shoes where you're literally standing flat footed with you've got weight on your heel.

[Craig Off]

Chuck Taylors. Yeah, yeah. Vans.

[Zach]

Yeah. No, Taylor's. No. Vans. No, I mean now, now there, there's people out there shooting in sandals. I know them and they're banging targets. So I mean, I guess if you get used to it, you can get used to anything. But I just don't like open toed shoes when I'm shooting and I don't like anything that doesn't have a little bit of a support for me. That's.

[Ricky]

I have stressed this for years with students and, and one little deal comes to mind is Mitchell Pearson.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

I was doing a lesson with Mitchell Pearson in Tucson, the very first one, and, and he had a pair of the, the hookahs. Hocus.

[Craig Off]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ricky]

They were like. And they were real comfortable. He's like, man, these are so comfortable. But when he would stand there, he would sink in his heel, right? And he was always shooting off his.

[Craig Off]

His back feet because it's like a U on that. That shoes like a U. Yeah, yeah.

[Ricky]

And I told his dad, I said, mark, go to the mall and get him a pair of Brooks the Beast.

[Craig Off]

The Beast.

[Ricky]

Okay. He. Nope, this is a fact you can look up. This was four or five years ago. Five years ago. I think they went and got him at spring Grand. I think it was spring or autumn, whichever one that week Mitchell got three yards in handicap.

[Craig Off]

Okay, There you go. All right, Brooks, if you're listening, we expect.

[Ricky]

If you're out there, hook me up.

[Craig Off]

Trap Talk Podcast llc. All right, so I think it's important, listen, you're standing there, you're driving through the feet. You got to have some movement, some ability to move, right? So I just wrote that down on my list. Brooks the Beast. So I will be stealing that one.

[Ricky]

Love the Adidas Ultra Boost. Myself and Justin Debris. I think he owns more than I do, but I had like 15 to 18 pairs of them. I think he had like 25 or 30.

[Craig Off]

Oh, wow.

[Ricky]

And buy them because they, these companies make a shoe and then they stop. So.

[Craig Off]

Right, yeah. So, okay, so Rick, final note here. What is your current trap shooting shoe? Is it the Brooks that you have on now or this right here?

[Ricky]

I just got back from the gun club.

[Craig Off]

That's the one this is what we're wearing.

[Ricky]

This one I. Different colors. I buy. Yeah, like these, they're pretty wild and I've been known kind of a crazy.

[Craig Off]

They match the bear pelt vest too. I like that. So they are say which ones they are again. The Brooks what model Adrenaline GTS 22s. Okay.

[Ricky]

I tried a pair of the 23s and they, they, the guy told me, he said, hey, they got more cushion in the heel. And I'm like, put them on. And sure enough.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, you need more support back there. Right. Okay. What about you, Zach? What's your current shoe for the listeners?

[Zach]

So I, I, I, I wear two sets of shoes that I've really fallen in love with. I like the air filled sketchers. There's just a slip on. I go down there and they've got like a nice foam amount of air filled. And I like, I think they call them Nike Air Maxes. Yeah, they're, they're an athletic, I mean, those, I like the air filled or the gel filled or the whatever. They just feel good on my feet and they have a little bit of a raised soul. I've always had good luck with them because I don't wear orthotics, so something with a little bit of a more cushion for me. I'm not, I don't sink into them the way that Ricky was talking about. And I just want to get that height and I feel.

[Ricky]

What are you saying?

[Zach]

That wasn't a dig. I was just, I, I was just saying, I was just saying, you know, I love you.

[Craig Off]

No shots fired.

[Ricky]

We've been losing, we've been losing some lbs, so we've been walking.

[Zach]

The buffaloes have been on their, their stroll.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, when you, when you guys see these guys, you're gonna, we're gonna be talking about buckle bodies again.

[Zach]

All right?

[Craig Off]

Okay, here we go. First of all, Brandon, thank you for that question, guys. Yeah, thank you for the shoe recommendations. Okay.

[Zach]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line. Ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line. When you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money, we'd.

[Ricky]

Also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw Engineering, Randy Fren R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural, land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[Zach]

And they're friends of TRAP shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[Ricky]

Yeah. His dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support and really appreciate it here at trap.

[Zach]

With that being said, let's get back to the show. Let's go, Brandon.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Next one's coming in from Jake Smith from Indiana. He says, hey, guys, I love the show. I've shot my entire shooting career, about 15 years in contacts. I've noticed them giving me problems while shooting, either drying out or moving around in my eye. And I know they've cost me several targets over the years. I've thought about making the switch to prescription glasses, and I was wondering if you would have any advice for me to making that switch. Thanks. And I look forward to more podcasts. Jake Smith, Indiana. All right, Jake, think that's a good question. Jake is transitioning or thinking about transitioning, I guess. Right.

[Ricky]

I'll answer this one since I shoot with shooting glasses and have. And. And actually today I ran into my Original eye doctor, Dr. Williams. Bought my first prozzy from him in 1988. Double A27, double A shooter, number one contact lens consultant in the world, Dr. Williams. When he sold his practice and I needed prescription glasses, he actually came in and got me in the chair and said, contacts aren't going to work for you. You have astigmatism. They didn't have the weighted contacts. Even now, I don't recommend to students shoot with weighted contacts because your eye moves faster than the contact can move. Okay, Number one. Number two, you will always see clearer through a lens than you will the contact. Okay? So I would recommend getting out. Here's the downside. He's. What do you say? He's been shooting 15 years.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, 15 years. Yeah.

[Ricky]

He didn't put an age on there. So, you know, he's either, you know, 30 to 40 to 50. Your eyes change. I mean, I get new lenses about once every nine months, you know, but I only use three. I use a pink, a bronze, and a clear. So. But your, your lenses can change.

[Zach]

You know, your, your prescription Eyes change all the time. Losing weight, gaining weight, your diet, your sleep schedule, stress, all of that stuff is going to change your eyes because.

[Ricky]

Of Zach stressing me out. But.

[Zach]

So if that was true, it'd be. Every three months you'd be getting new lenses.

[Ricky]

I gotta go in. So I would literally look at getting, you know, just a, maybe a couple, you know.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, try it out for sure. Yeah.

[Ricky]

Whatever color you like. Yeah, get it in that. Try it. Now. Here's the, here's the thing. I'll tell you, put them on a minimum of an hour before you go shoot. Now if you need them all the time. See, I don't need them all the time. So if you need them all the time, you get to the club, you gotta throw on your, your prescription glasses right away. So you're, you're getting used to them.

[Craig Off]

You always see that. You always see all the top shooters wearing their shooting glasses all day. You don't see them throwing them on right before they walk to the field. I, that's something that I, you always see them getting that acclimation done with the eye.

[Zach]

I think you have to. With prescription. You have to. And, and I, I couldn't agree any more than with what rick said. He's 100% right about the contacts, 100% right about the prescription. The only thing I would add to it is I have had some friends that have went and did the Lasik now and they're really happy with the results there. So I know Lasik had some bad reputation, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. But nowadays, I mean, my, my buddy, best friend, Zach, Brian, he went and got Lasik and he is so happy that he did it and he's shooting so much better just because he doesn't have to deal with contacts or lenses or anything that, I mean, he is loving it and he's like, man, if I'd have known it would be this easy to heal and this like, good, I would have did this five years ago. So, yeah, you know, I think there's an option if you have, if you have good doctors around that understand that. I wouldn't go to, you know, a Jiffy Lube of Lasik, but I would, I would go to something, you know, good and reputable.

[Ricky]

Here's what I'll say about the Lasik is you go talk to a doctor and weigh out your pros and cons. Okay. It depends on how bad your prescription is.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Because there is always a long term effect with any, anytime you're doing Surgery in your eyes, there's always a long term effect.

[Zach]

I'm very fortunate.

[Ricky]

I've got a lot of friends and clients that are doctors and one that was a friend of mine and client and I was like, doc, I want to get this done. He goes, nope. And I was like, what do you mean, no? He goes, nope, I'm not doing it. Yeah, you got more to lose than gain. And that's the thing. That's what you really want to go look at, sit down and, and talk to them and get a good response. There is some out there that are just, they just want to cut you.

[Zach]

Yeah. You don't. You want to go. Go to somebody that cares about you have a relationship with. Has done a lot as an expert in their field. And, and like he said, just like Rick said, you know, Zach told me he laid out, you know, the options. Hey, this is the advantages, this is the disadvantages. And I think this is why you would be a good candidate for, for it. But some people are not. But for, you know, for if, if you're, you know, that stigmatism type of thing that you can get it rounded out and get it done. I mean, and it's important to you and you don't want to deal with it. I see that. But. But that it can come back even if you do the Lasik. I mean, stuff can. Sure. You know, it does. It's not a forever fix.

[Craig Off]

Always change. Yeah. And now, hey, Rick, was your, your client. Did. Who's the eye doctor? Was he saying no because of your stigmatism? Is that why he didn't want to do it?

[Ricky]

Because I didn't have that bad a prescription that I wasn't gonna gain a lot because they can tell you here's.

[Craig Off]

The risk reward was not.

[Ricky]

They could say, oh yeah, we'll get you. They can't get you to 2010 or whatever or 2015. When I'm seeing my glasses.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

You can only get you then get you 20, 20 maybe. Or I, I knew some people that actually they were told, yep, it'll get you 20, 20. And they ended up being like 2030-24, which they still now their prescription was like 2.75 and 3.

[Craig Off]

That's pretty, that's pretty heavy. I think, right.

[Ricky]

Where me, I'm 0.50.

[Craig Off]

That's nothing. Yeah.

[Zach]

Oh, I can shoot 0.50.

[Craig Off]

Well, you could shoot a.50.

[Zach]

Oh, that ain't nothing.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Hey, Zach, do you know if Zach had astigmatism when he did. He did have One. Okay. Because I. That used to be, I think, some type of road, and I still have.

[Zach]

Astigmatism in my left eye, but. Yeah, something you deal with, but.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. And. And I have one of our board members out here in Nevada, Danny Talbert, he recently had the cataract surgery. And instead of just getting the clear lens nowadays, they put a corrective lens in your eye now. And he's done with his prescription glasses and shooting, so I'm just looking forward to that when I can just get the lens put directly in my eyeball.

[Zach]

Yeah, I think we just need to wait a couple more years, let this technology keep advancing, and then, you know, then we're good. Like, I'm still waiting. I'm let.

[Ricky]

Listen, you guys keep doing it, and I'm gonna keep wearing lenses.

[Craig Off]

All right. All right. Well, I'm farsighted, so I'm on the positive side of it, I guess. I can't see anything close up, but far away, I'm okay, so. Hey, Jake, thank you for that question. That's a great question. And I think what, Ricky, your takeaway was kind of. Hey, give it a try. I mean, absolutely, you know.

[Ricky]

Yeah, it'll help you because with contacts, I've had a lot of friends that have shot him. You get a little sand in there, A little grit powder, anything.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah, that's James. Like, that's James Schooler from Barstow, which you guys know. He. He wears, he wears contacts and yeah, some of the, you know, you get that wind coming in or you get something in it or they don't settle.

[Ricky]

Right.

[Zach]

It'll mess you up if you mess it up. Something in your eye and the wind's drying them out and you're like, I can't see. And I'm like, oh, that sucks.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. And. And I'm sure, you know, you know, as. As kind of Jake is saying here, 15 year shooter, missing targets because of your contacts is, you know, not fun. So that's not fun. Not fun. Jake, get some lenses. Okay. And thank you for the question. We appreciate it.

[Zach]

Hey, Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay Shoot Management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[Ricky]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there. I mean, they've got majority of the satellite grants. Majority the state shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You could see your squad if they paid. You know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal. They're just.

[Zach]

Ricky, how much money he made before he even got off the line, he was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I, I know they're, they're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Cole and Larry Cushman, been long time supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance and literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great, they're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife, animals and that such and your guns.

[Zach]

It's just a great, it's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things especially we got those Craig offs. You got to keep them insured. So. Oh. With that being said, let's get, get.

[Ricky]

Back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Okay, next question is coming in from John and John is asking. I have been a shooter for my entire life but only got into trap recently without writing a book about my experience. Thank you John, we appreciate that. Less reading out loud for me here was my question. I'm a right handed shooter and I'm right eye dominant. Does gun hold height affect your left eye? Taking over, I have found that I have a harder time with left hand targets. I either smoke them or I miss them by 10ft. On singles I hold slightly below level. I think he's talking the house or maybe level gun. Yeah, yeah. So, and then thank you in advance for everything that you guys do. I love the show. I've listened to every episode multiple times. Keep up the great work and I hope to see you out there shooting this year. John, thank you for the question. So guys, I saw you shaking your head already so I think you kind of got some, some opinions here. So yeah, left eye high of hold me telling John personally here I would.

[Ricky]

Try. He's saying so level. He could be depend now we don't know his height. You know, he's you know, five foot two and he's holding.

[Craig Off]

That's top of the house.

[Zach]

Top of the house.

[Ricky]

Seriously, you know where me if I'm holding level at 6263, I'm about. I measured it a long time ago, but I want to say it was.

[Zach]

Like 7ft 18 inches.

[Craig Off]

20 inches above the house too, depending.

[Ricky]

On what club you're shooting at, that matters.

[Craig Off]

True. That's true.

[Ricky]

So I would just say is maybe just lower your whole point a little bit.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

You're missing a lot of lefts off 1. What'd he say? 1, 2.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, he's missing left left on 1 and 2.

[Ricky]

Just drop your whole point on post 1 and 2 and let's see what happens.

[Zach]

So. So I 100 agree with Rick on this one. You. You got, you got visual impediments. And whenever that right eye is being blocked off and it can't see, the left eye wants to jump in and help. And that's the thing. Right. So.

[Ricky]

But it's not.

[Craig Off]

He's.

[Ricky]

I think his is taken over because he. His ride. I can't see it at all.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. But, but, but for me, when I get to one and this is just now, Ricky looks through the gun all the time. When I get to 1 and 2, I generally look a little bit higher and drop the gun down and look a little higher because I always want to keep that gun under the line of the clay. I don't want it to run through that rib and that if I'm holding up at all on the left side and that target runs into that rib where I can't see it, as soon as I get in that zone, the no zone, I freaking left eye kicks over. I go up and it's all bad. So, so I really, I think, you know, either lower the. Lower your hold point or potentially maybe try looking a little bit higher above the gun when you call pull. That's going to give you some room with your eyes. They'll both do the same thing. It's just, it's just you gotta play with that height.

[Ricky]

Right.

[Zach]

If you're always looking through the gun, the only thing you can do is look hold lower.

[Ricky]

Yeah, I would just, I, I wouldn't try to look too high because then you get that disconnect. So I would just lower the gun a little bit. Keep, keep your same eye, hold and. And run with it. See what happens.

[Craig Off]

Because if the target comes over the gun, then you have a better chance of the right eye, you know, Right. Seeing it and, and, and going after it. But if it's covering up, then you lose it. And then that's what you're saying, right, Zach? The left eye.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, yeah. And here's the thing, right? Yeah. If you hold on the front corner of, of one on the house, that left hand target is not coming out above your gum, it's coming out the side.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So for me to actually have that target above the line of my gun the whole time, I would have to drop that whole point down into the middle of the house and kind of you think of the left hand side of the house from the front left corner to the back left corner like that side. That whole side of the house. If you hold halfway in the middle, that's pretty much where you need to be in my opinion. And down to be under that line somewhere. Down and in so that that target comes out. And it's actually coming out over here on this side of the gun. If you're holding on that corner, there's no way it could come out on top of the gun. If you get the hard left, it's coming out on the side and then you cut over and if you cut over too quick, you're gonna stop and lift your head and shoot behind that target very commonly.

[Craig Off]

Hey, Zach, when you say you look a little higher over the gun on one because you know, trap shooting being the exact sport that it is, you're, you're a quarter over the gun in some of the other posts. What about on one? How much more are you going?

[Zach]

I'm a half a quarter over the gun and I might go to a full quarter over the gun.

[Ricky]

Is this an American quarter or a Canadian?

[Zach]

I think they're the same size. That's a trick question. Elizabeth Queen Elizabeth. Quarter. I do a full quarter on one and a half, a quarter on three, four and five.

[Craig Off]

So, so it's not a huge change. It's just a little, I'm not talking.

[Zach]

About looking up to the, you know, the sky with the, the planes. I'm just talking about giving yourself a little bit more room because on that side you're turned in this way. And if you're a little bit hesitant on that left side, you need to give your eye, your right eye the chance to attack it. And, and most people don't, they don't give their right eye a chance to see the bird. They're letting it see with the left. They and, and Ricky, Ricky will cheat off that side because of his right eye. He'll go over to the left so that it's coming to his, his eyeball. And I think that's a really cool.

[Ricky]

Tactic for bringing me another full glass.

[Zach]

Yeah, I was just gonna say what a nice lady.

[Craig Off]

Jody. Jody, where, where's our, where's our water? I'm thirsty. Okay.

[Zach]

It's about, it's about whiskey time, Leticia.

[Craig Off]

All right.

[Ricky]

It could be.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, it is. Okay.

[Zach]

Yeah, we're, we're 67 7:30pm on a Friday right now, working hard.

[Craig Off]

Hey, for the listener, it's worth it. Okay.

[Ricky]

That's right.

[Craig Off]

John, thank you for that question. I, I think that's going to help a lot of the listeners kind of with that. And I think something you guys have always said we should remind everybody, Try it. Don't be afraid to move. Try your high. You know, just, you need to experiment. Don't lock yourself into something that's not working.

[Ricky]

Just if you're learning, you're winning.

[Zach]

If you're not, if it's not working and you're not trying new things, then I don't know what to tell you. Like change it a little bit.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, okay. All right, we are moving on. And again, John, thank you for that question.

[Zach]

All right folks, let's take a quick second and thank some brand new incoming sponsors of the show. These are personal friends of mine, fellow clay shooters and lovers of the outdoors, Rick and carla Burke at 73 Pointers Ranch. Rick, tell them what we're doing.

[Ricky]

Well, we're doing a giveaway at the Grand American. So they've graciously donated a one person hunt for, I think it's, what is it, 18 quail or 12 chucker or eight pheasants, your choice. Guiding dog. We got dinner, overnight lodging, you know, breakfast. So yeah, I think it's going to be a great giveaway.

[Zach]

It's a great thing. It's valued at like 1500 bucks. You can obviously bring a guest if you'd like, but you know, it's about an hour out of St. Louis Airport and if you're lucky, maybe me and Rick will go out there with you and do some bird hunting. Cuz this is an awesome place. It's a great time and if you're local to this area, it's not that far out of the city so you can be in the office and then be hunting in the afternoon. So they're great, great people and they love this show. So we really, really appreciate the love and support.

[Ricky]

Yeah, we'd like to thank Rick and Carla.

[Zach]

We really appreciate that also. We've Got Mid State precious metals. Ron Prescott, he's a great guy. For all your gold and silver needs. Ricky, tell them about our friend.

[Ricky]

Yeah, Ron. He graciously donated a 10 ounce silver bar to our live in person podcast in Tucson. And you know, he has everything. I bought a bunch of silver from him. You know, we got our silver and gold for the. The fun day at the Nevada State shoot on Monday this year. You know, John got all the silver and gold for the Nevada State shoot. So look him up for your silver and gold needs. He'll give you the best price out there.

[Zach]

He really is. And, and he's a friend of the trap shooters. I mean, he's looking to get gold and silver to these gun clubs for their shoots at the lowest price across the country. He's doing them a service and helping grow the sport. So, you know, thank you so much for that, Ron.

[Ricky]

Yeah, thank you, Ron. We appreciate it.

[Zach]

With that being said, let's get to the show.

[Craig Off]

Okay, this question comes in from Tyler B. Tyler B. Is saying, Zach and Ricky, what changes with your eyes do you have between singles and handicaps? Higher or lower above the bead, Assuming your eyes are staying above the rib, focusing farther out into the background or closer to the trap house. Any differences you guys are doing between singles and handicap? Thanks, Tyler B. All right.

[Ricky]

I don't change anything.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, I don't change it.

[Zach]

I don't change anything either.

[Ricky]

That's. Sorry, Tyler. We, you know, we could. We can't really draw this one out to anything, but. Yeah, we keep it real, Keep it the same.

[Zach]

The only thing I could say if there was any shift at all would be I'm looking at the same spot in front of the house at the 16 yard line as I am from the 27. So I'm adding 11 more yards of look forward. I mean, okay, yeah, yeah, but that. Right, but that's like if you're asking, well, do I, do I look with the. My, my. I feel my eyes strain just a, just a little bit more at 27 to get to that distance than I feel it at 16. I feel like at 16 I could just look without any zoom at all.

[Ricky]

Bring it back a little bit.

[Zach]

Correct. I bring it back at 16 and.

[Ricky]

Then at 26 for your handicap, bring it a little. Don't look as far out that that'll settle the strain, Zach.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, I'm saying I gotta. I got a strain just to get it to the 27.

[Craig Off]

This is, this is a hard one for. Yeah, this is a hard one for People. Because we. We talk a lot about how far out we're looking. Right. And again, I think we have another opportunity here to kind of, you know, go out and do some demonstration here. But, yes, when I've heard you even talk to students and say, hey, do you see that line of, you know, holes out or, you know, wads out there? That's where I want you to look like.

[Zach]

You.

[Craig Off]

You give them some type of anchor. And I think, I feel like a lot of the times you are bringing people back into the house, they. They're looking too far out.

[Ricky]

I'll. I'll get them. It depends on the student and how they're shooting.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

And then I'll adjust. If I'm not adjusting you, then you're looking in the right spot.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach]

How.

[Craig Off]

How do you tell? Because when you're working with somebody, how do you tell if maybe their eyes are.

[Zach]

Is it.

[Craig Off]

Is it the time to get to the target?

[Ricky]

Moving to the target, how they're breaking the target?

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

Their reflexes to it.

[Zach]

If. If I see someone throw the gun really hard at an angle, I know their eyes are too far out because they're looking over here and they're not seeing it and identifying it.

[Ricky]

Yeah.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach]

They're tossing that gun really hard to the side. Then I know it spooked them, and I'm gonna bring them back and soften it up so they can see that angle left or right. And. And if they're, you know, if they're. If they're really lagging, really, really, really lagging, they. Then they might not have their eyes out far enough, you know, really slow with it because they're like, pull. And then the thing's over the apex, and they're still coming in from behind. I'm like, you don't even. You're still looking at the front of the gun. I mean, you're not even close to that target.

[Craig Off]

Right? So. And. And I know we've. We've covered this a couple of times. Can you guys give a general estimation, maybe in feet, how far behind the trap house you feel like your eyes are out? Is that possible to say? Like, I feel like I'm 10ft behind the trap house? Is that possible?

[Zach]

Or in front? Not behind. I mean, I'm. I'm one. Yeah, I'm looking.

[Craig Off]

I meant. I meant in front.

[Zach]

Yeah, I meant, yeah, yeah, in front. And I mean, I want to see the target emerge as soon as possible.

[Craig Off]

So wherever you're three feet, your eyes are, like, right there. Okay.

[Zach]

I mean, a couple Feet. A couple feet in front of the trap house, maybe.

[Ricky]

Yeah.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky]

Depends on the garbage. Depends on the day, depends on the lighting. Sure, yeah.

[Zach]

Everything.

[Ricky]

So, okay, I.

[Craig Off]

There's. There's a lot of variables in trap shooting, and obviously it's an outdoor sport. You're reacting to those variables. But I think in general, maybe just as a starting point for the. The listeners, don't get too far out. Don't get your eye 50 yards to the stake. Like, bring those eyes in, get them to where you're acquiring.

[Zach]

Well, yeah, you're not going to be shooting a target at 50 yards in the stake anyway.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, but there's. There's that, there's that. I. I don't want to call it a rumor or. But there's that. That, you know, thing where they say your eyes focus faster in. So a lot of us have looked.

[Ricky]

At that real quick because I hear it all the time. I get a lot of students to do. If you look out at a distance. So if I look out and say I'm looking at 100 yards out and I go to look at the. Look at. Like I'm looking out of distance, I go to look down at you. Boom. I might have distance looked out. The trap house, it's clear. Okay, well, guess what? We're shooting a target that's going back away.

[Craig Off]

Right.

[Ricky]

Okay, you do that. It's almost like it's a little bit of a vision flinch. And I'll see you guys do it right away. And I'm like, move them eyes. And they're like, what? I'm like, you're too far out. Okay. And then they realize, oh, God, I was too far out. So.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, because it's not. It's not a static thing, which Ricky's saying is it's going out as we're coming back. So you're coming in and going out at the same time. So instead of. In our method, we're basically where it's at and we're coming out with it. We're always zooming to it, and that's a much more fluid movement in my mind.

[Craig Off]

But, you know, so Ricky, like, you hear that a lot because it's this thing that gets passed around out there, which is, oh, get your eyes out there. Because they focus in faster. And, you know, it's gets said a lot.

[Zach]

Well, I think that get your eyes out there came from people looking at the tip of their gun. Right? Like, sure. Like if someone says, well, get your eyes out there, and it's, you know, the old Timer at the trap club. Well, he's used to the guy that's looking at the beads. He's six inches off the gun, and he's looking. He's aiming, and he's aiming, and he says, you need to get your eyes out there. Well, yeah, get your eyes out there, but not to Oklahoma, right? Like, just wear the like out there. Like, not so far, Right? A little bit closer.

[Craig Off]

A little bit closer.

[Ricky]

Okay, where are we shooting? We're down to Texas. We're looking at Oklahoma.

[Zach]

We was in Texas. Shooting in Oklahoma. I'm like, jesus, get him back.

[Craig Off]

Bring him in. Bring them in. Bring them in. Okay, Tyler, thank you for the question, guys. Thank you for that. I think this is something that is one of the key components of trap shooting, and I think a lot of the listeners kind of wonder what we really mean sometimes when we say say that.

[Zach]

So we don't even know what we mean sometimes.

[Craig Off]

Well, you're doing a good job. It sounded very believable. All right, again, thank you for that question, Tyler.

[Zach]

All right, trap talk listeners, got to take a few more seconds for some shameless plugs. This time, we're plugging trap talk. We got the hats on. Why are you wearing the same hat as me going all gray? We got hats. We still got some available, right, Rick?

[Ricky]

Yeah, we got multiple hats available. We got a big order of hats coming out, too. You can get them on the website. John will put the link either up here or down here. Not sure.

[Zach]

That's up to John.

[Ricky]

So I gave you both.

[Zach]

You never know where he's gonna put him. That being said, we love you guys wearing the hats at trap shoots. It really shows the support. It shows the love. Take pictures. Tag us in Instagram, Tag us on Facebook. You know, send us message that you guys wearing the hats, wear them proud. And we got a big reveal coming for the grand. I think you guys are really gonna like it. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have a place for you to maybe get some merchandise, so more details to come.

[Ricky]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Okay, guys, let's wrap it up on our last one here. And this one's coming in from Bob. And Bob says, hey, guys, you're often used the term drive through the target. Most often you use it when you're referring to the second shot of doubles, but not exclusively. Can you go into a little more detail as to exactly what you mean by that phrase? How else might you say kind of the same thing? Tell us the term Inform. Excuse me. Let me try that again. Bob, tell us how the term informs your shooting. Under what circumstances do you say it to yourself? Thanks, and keep up the good work. Best, Bob. Psych. Ricky. See you in April. And Karen loves her K80.

[Ricky]

Oh, it's my students Bob and Karen from.

[Craig Off]

Oh, there you go.

[Ricky]

From PA Jersey area. Yep. In the fall. They do a lot of sailing in the. In the summer.

[Craig Off]

Oh, awesome. Okay, great, Bob. Thank you for that question. Okay, guys, so, yes, Bob is right. We do say drive through the target a lot. And I think maybe he's, you know, just. Can we say that in a couple of different ways and maybe they'll understand a little bit better.

[Ricky]

I tell everybody, drive through the target, meaning you want to. You want to. Okay. Prime example. Shooting today, doing a lesson. Zach had a lesson, too. I had a lesson. I told the. The one young gentleman, I said, you need to drive through that target. Shooting singles.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

People have a tendency to pull up to a target and try to shoot at it. And okay, pop. Driving through is boom. And the follow through. Keep that gun moving, you're driving through. You. You're so. The way I shoot, I'm matching the speed of the target with my barrel speed. Shooting and driving through. Now, as what Bob's referring to with the second shot of doubles, you always want to shoot that first target fast. Reckless, but with control is how my coaching mentor used to say it. Frank, Copy. And then you shift your eyes to the second target. The gun falls, you drive through that second one. So you're always moving. You're that follow through on the second one. So drive through, not. Not looking to pick a point and shoot, you know, and that's where if you're driving through, you got the gun moving. So. And I always say, look at the front edge of the target. So if you're looking at the front edge and you got that gun moving, you got a way better chance if you so happen to not drive to break that target. Okay.

[Craig Off]

Okay. So it has a lot to do with keeping the gun moving and follow through. I think that's one of the. Okay, that's one of the key things.

[Zach]

Okay, so. So I think the easiest way to think of it is this. If we remove the human component to our game and we just took a gun at 12 gauge and we were able to laser it to the front edge of a target, and that gun could match the speed of the target. And, you know, the target's going 42 miles an hour. The gun's going 42 miles an hour. And the gun stays on that leading edge of the bird the whole time as it fires. And the speed of the gun doesn't change. You're gonna smoke ball the target a hundred times out of 100 times. It's impossible not to. So if you're in, in the game of trap, if your gun is on the front of that target and you're maintaining, it's gonna break. Now. Now, that has to do with gun speed. So if someone in a lesson says to me, well, Zach, I get to the front and that doesn't break. Well, they're going to the target with a 22 mile an hour gun now. And some people, they're like, well, if I get to the front of the target, I shoot way in front. Well, they're swinging through at 70 miles an hour, so they're having to shoot the back of the target because their swing is too fast.

[Craig Off]

Right?

[Zach]

So if you're. Ricky talks about maintaining gun speed, matching gun speed all the time. He does it instinctively and naturally, and he's not even thinking about it. But most people do not. Most people are coming to a target with more speed than the target or less speed than the target, and that's looking close. And that's where lead is created in this game. Because whenever anybody's saying I got to lead a target, even at the 27 yard line, that tells me that they're coming in with the wrong gun speed on that shot. Because you really don't need, you don't need more than what it is. I mean, at that distance that shots there like that. So here's an index card.

[Ricky]

Okay?

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Frank Copy used to always say the difference in lead from a 1200 to a 1250 or 1145 to a 1200.

[Zach]

Is that thickness of this.

[Ricky]

Okay? Now, I'm sure people out there could disprove it. And you know, but here's the thing. If you got that gun moving and the, the other part of it is, it's like today one of my students, he goes, I was leading that target. And I said, and you were stopping? He goes, yeah. And I go, what I want you to do, I want you to see it and I want you to trust yourself. And all my students hear this. You have to trust yourself. And if you trust yourself, that's when you get that instinctive moves. And, and you're like, Zach. I mean, you know, I've worked with Zach before and had to just tell, dude, you could break targets. Right? Zach. Confidence, that's the biggest thing.

[Zach]

It's confidence. Sometimes Sometimes you're in your head. You're. You're going too slow with the gun. You're measuring it. The light conditions aren't quite right. You're like, what's going on? You're there, and you're trying to find the spot. And, like, you're. At the end of the day, the spot is your body and your. The spot is because of confidence and moving the gun and seeing the bird. If you see the bird well, and everything set up and you're moving at the right speed, you look at the front of the target and shoot it. And that follow through or that drive through the target, we're not saying get to the target and then hit the gas and throw the gun. We're saying just that target, as you're squeezing the trigger, it's still moving, and you need to maintain that move all the way through that shot so that everything happens perfectly. Because if you throw the. If you throw the brakes on it bad. If you speed up bad. Just. Just keep it simple. Kiss. Right?

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

The biggest thing. And that's why. So, you know, I. Maybe I should. Trademark Drive through the target or something. No, it's just.

[Zach]

I ain't paying you when I say that.

[Ricky]

10 of all options.

[Craig Off]

So.

[Ricky]

But all in all seriousness, you want to make sure. And. And the way I shoot, Sean Holly shoots the same way. We're driving through. We're moving through that target, and. And we're boom. Like doubles. It's whack. And then we. Driving through. You're shooting the first one fast but controlled. And then we're looping and driving through that second one. And it. It just. You have to trust yourself. That's the biggest.

[Zach]

And that's a style of shooting, and it's a very common style of shooting. And now we. We talked to Vendel. We just listened to that episode today. And his style is different, right? He has a different style where he's matching the speed like we do, but instead of matching the speed and matching the speed and continuing to go, he matches the speed, and then he pulls away and kind of does a little bit of different thing. And that works for him. It's. And then there's. There's. There's the Harlan Campbells of the worlds. There's the Freddie Nichols of the world. There's the, you know, the Matthew Bartholomews of the world. There's. There's a million ways to do this, guys. It's just what works best for you. And I think if you break it down to, like, simple. See the Target, track the target down. That's probably the most common way to start.

[Ricky]

Shoot it, follow through, shoot it, fall through.

[Zach]

I mean, there's a good place to start, and then you can build on that.

[Craig Off]

I think you guys. Yeah, you guys translated drive through the target really well. It's about keeping the gun moving the follow through, because that helps you with that matching of the speed. Speed. It helps you get to that front edge of the target. And Zach, you're right. A lot of the. You know, there are great shooters out there who have developed their own particular style.

[Zach]

Absolutely.

[Craig Off]

You know, Matt Bartholow would be a prime example of that. Three different guns, three different styles for, you know, singles, handicap, and doubles. But that's not the norm. That's. You're talking.

[Zach]

That's not. I mean, if you want to. If you want to rewrite the book, then you need to buy some pages of mink, and you need to go out to the. To the trap with a pallet of shells and go figure it out on your own. If you're looking for. I want to start now, and I want to have a good basics and get down and dirty and get good fast. Well, here's what you need to do to get down and dirty and good fast. But if. If you want to figure out the new system or your new style, then the only thing you can do is by trying everything and working harder than everyone else. That's it. That's all you can do.

[Ricky]

Yeah, that's right.

[Craig Off]

Yep. Well, hey, Bob, that was a great question, Karen. We're very happy you love your K80. Obviously, anybody out there who needs a gun, you do have Ricky here as a resource. Again, not a shameless plug, just a great guy to buy a gun from. I got Leticia's gun from Ricky. She loves it. She's very happy. She's been shooting very well with it. Kicking my butt. We're working on that. Okay, thank you, everyone. This was great. Yes. Thank you guys for answering these questions. Thank you guys for sending in the questions. As always, send us your questions to ask [e-mail] and we will get these guys to answer them for you, and we'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.

[Zach]

Thank you.

[Craig Off]

Thank you. And the Trap Talk podcast is brought.

[Zach]

To you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds.

[Ricky]

Hundreds.

[Zach]

Give Ricky a call today. Zach Nini Financial. We believe in putting people first.