Listener Question Extravaganza - PART 4 - TRAP TALK - E75

Summary

Trap Talk From The Back Fence: Listener Question Extravaganza - PART 4 (E75) Summary

Release Date: May 24, 2024
Hosts: Zach Nini & Ricky Marshall Jr.

In the fourth installment of the "Listener Question Extravaganza," hosts Zach Nini and Ricky Marshall dive deep into various listener-submitted questions, offering expert insights into the nuances of trapshooting. This episode, free from the usual advertisements and introductory segments, focuses solely on delivering valuable content for both novice and seasoned shooters.

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1. Understanding Point of Impact (POI) Settings

Listener Question: Kurt from Casa Grande, Arizona, inquires about the purpose of setting different POIs, specifically questioning why some shooters set their POI at 100% and whether high POI settings require the gun to keep moving.

Ricky Marshall's Insight (01:56):
"The poi honestly, is up to each individual shooter. I don't say you gotta have 100, you gotta have 90, 87%. But a trap target rises. So you do want to have a little bit higher than 50, 50, you know, 60, 40 on up will work just fine."
Ricky emphasizes the personalization of POI settings, advocating for flexibility based on individual shooting styles and gun mechanics.

Zach Nini's Perspective (03:24):
"You could have three different guns all at the same point of impact and hit targets differently with each one of those guns. It has to do with the mechanics of the move, it has to do with your eyes, it has to do with weight, it has to do with balance, it has to do with gun fit."
Zach highlights the complexity behind POI settings, stressing that factors like gun balance and shooter mechanics play a crucial role.

Hosts' Personal Settings:

• Ricky: Sets his POI at 75-80% across all three barrels for trap shooting and around 70% for sporting clays, allowing seamless transitions between different guns.
• Zach: Configures his POI at 80-20% for trap shooting and 70-30% for sporting clays, maintaining a slightly flatter trajectory.

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2. Barrel Tuning and Its Impact on POI

Listener Question: A listener inquires about the process and effectiveness of setting barrels to a specific POI without adjusting the shooter's stance or eye alignment.

Ricky Marshall's Explanation (08:03):
"You have to send it in and, you know, one of the best guys out there that I dealt with in the past, Tommy Wilkinson, you know, I mean, he can make barrels do magical things... Comb everything like it is. So that's how he gets it down. It's all in a vice, though."
Ricky discusses the technical expertise required to tune barrels accurately, emphasizing the role of professionals like Tommy Wilkinson in achieving precise POI settings.

Zach Nini's Contribution (09:16):
"He's cutting a different angle in the barrel... fixed choke, though. But I. I pulled it out of the box. And that day I shot 300 targets. 100 singles, 100 handicap, 100 doubles. And I went 99, 99, 99."
Zach shares a personal anecdote demonstrating the effectiveness of professionally tuned barrels, showcasing significant performance improvements.

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3. The Concept of "Driving to the Target"

Listener Question: Chet from Prescott, Arizona, seeks clarification on the term "driving to the target," particularly whether it involves the entire body or just the gun movement.

Zach Nini's Explanation (14:51):
"Driving to the target is I'm going with everything I have to that direction, and I'm maintaining movement as I'm pulling the trigger. So, you know, pushing through it, if you will."
Zach defines "driving to the target" as a cohesive movement involving the entire body, ensuring continuous motion through the shot for consistent performance.

Ricky Marshall's Addition (19:16):
"Number one, keep your head down at all times. See the target, and drive through the target."
Ricky reinforces the importance of maintaining body alignment and continuous motion to enhance accuracy and reliability in shots.

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4. Registered vs. Non-Registered ATA Shoots

Listener Question: Ralph P. raises concerns about the benefits of participating in registered ATA shoots versus non-registered ones, especially for casual shooters who cannot afford extensive travel or high target counts.

Ricky Marshall's Advice (25:27):
"The only non-registered stuff I shoot is practice... I'd rather be registered, you know, but it's okay."
Ricky acknowledges that while registered shoots offer more points and recognition, non-registered shoots serve as valuable practice grounds without the competitive pressure.

Zach Nini's Perspective (25:56):
"I don't think there's disadvantages or advantages, you know, as long as you're not doing it from a, you know, I guess a, a bad position."
Zach encourages shooters to engage in both registered and non-registered shoots based on their comfort and financial ability, emphasizing enjoyment and personal growth over competition.

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5. Handling Scoring Disputes with Pullers

Listener Question: Charlie Lehman from New Jersey describes an incident where a puller disputed the status of a chipped target, leading to tension within his squad.

Ricky Marshall's Guidance (51:51):
"So going in, talking to management afterwards, that's just trying to say, hey, this. But, yeah, that's what I would recommend."
Ricky advises addressing disputes respectfully and promptly, involving management to mediate and resolve conflicts without escalating tensions.

Zach Nini's Recommendations (52:07):
"If you've got multiple people on the squad, they're going to back that you hit the target. And everybody's saying that."
Zach emphasizes unity within the squad and maintaining respect towards pullers, highlighting the importance of professionalism and calmness in conflict resolution.

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6. Developing Stronger Trigger Control

Listener Question: Jesse Adkins from Denver asks for recommended practice routines to enhance trigger control, a critical skill in trapshooting.

Ricky Marshall's Insights (46:16):
"Trigger control is within yourself. Not everybody can do it... it's faster than the speed of light."
Ricky explains that trigger control stems from personal discipline and muscle memory, suggesting that consistent practice is essential for improvement.

Zach Nini's Techniques (47:00):
"One of the drills I did early on was I just go in my garage and I'd take like duct tape... and I would mount the gun and then I'd have my dad come out and I'd say, hey, tell me if it's left, tell me if it's right, tell me if it's straight, whatever."
Zach shares practical drills he employed to train his trigger control, emphasizing the importance of repetitive practice and immediate feedback.

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7. Future Category Eligibility

Listener Question: Brit7044 from YouTube asks whether the hosts would consider competing in the sub-vest category once eligible, given its competitive nature.

Ricky Marshall's Response (60:37):
"I'd probably just stay in open... but honestly, I might do it mine. I don't know."
Ricky contemplates the possibility but leans towards remaining in the open category, citing personal preference and competitive dynamics.

Zach Nini's Thoughts (60:38):
"If, if, if, if, if they're able and they're open, then what's it hurting?"
Zach encourages shooters to explore different categories without fear, highlighting the prestige and personal achievement associated with various divisions.

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8. Encouragement for Casual Shooters

Listener Question: Oliver J. Patton expresses concerns about balancing full-time work with the financial demands of participating in ATA shoots, seeking reassurance about the role of casual club shooters.

Ricky Marshall's Reassurance (40:36):
"Go shoot every shoot you possibly can. Don't just stick around and shoot a, you know, a club shoots... it's okay that you can't afford to go to every single shoot."
Ricky encourages casual shooters to participate within their means, emphasizing enjoyment and personal satisfaction over competitive success.

Zach Nini's Support (42:00):
"If you can go to an ATA shoot, maybe your kids shooting a shoot and you want to shoot an event, I would say pick an event that you feel confident in... It's okay that you can't afford to go to every single shoot."
Zach echoes Ricky's sentiments, advocating for selective participation based on personal comfort and financial capacity, and emphasizing the intrinsic value of the sport.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Zach and Ricky address a range of topics essential to mastering trapshooting, from technical adjustments like POI and barrel tuning to interpersonal issues like handling scoring disputes. They provide actionable advice tailored to shooters of varying skill levels and commitments, fostering a supportive and knowledge-rich environment for the trapshooting community.

Notable Quotes:

• Ricky Marshall (01:56):
  "The poi honestly, is up to each individual shooter."

• Zach Nini (03:24):
  "You could have three different guns all at the same point of impact and hit targets differently with each one of those guns."

• Zach Nini (14:51):
  "Driving to the target is I'm going with everything I have to that direction."

• Ricky Marshall (25:27):
  "The only non-registered stuff I shoot is practice... I'd rather be registered, you know, but it's okay."

• Ricky Marshall (51:51):
  "But that's what I would recommend."

• Zach Nini (52:07):
  "If you've got multiple people on the squad, they're going to back that you hit the target."

• Ricky Marshall (46:16):
  "Trigger control is within yourself. Not everybody can do it."

• Zach Nini (47:00):
  "One of the drills I did early on was... and I would have my dad come out and I'd say, hey, tell me if it's left, tell me if it's right."

• Ricky Marshall (60:37):
  "I'd probably just stay in open."

• Zach Nini (60:38):
  "If they're able and they're open, then what's it hurting?"

• Ricky Marshall (40:36):
  "Go shoot every shoot you possibly can."

• Zach Nini (42:00):
  "Pick an event that you feel confident in... it's okay that you can't afford to go to every single shoot."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of Episode E75 of the "Trap Talk From The Back Fence" podcast, providing listeners with comprehensive insights and practical advice on various facets of trapshooting.

Transcript

[Zach Nini]

Welcome to season two of trap doc.

[Ricky Marshall]

Brought to you by Craig Off.

[Craig Off]

All right, welcome back, everybody. This is the listener extravaganza part four. And we wanted to thank everybody for submitting your questions. If you want to submit your question and get these guys to answer it, it's ask us traptalkpodcast.com send it in and we'll get the experts to give you their expertise, inside information on everything you want to know about trap shooting. But with that said, guys, are you ready?

[Zach Nini]

I'm ready. All right, you ready? It's a beautiful day.

[Craig Off]

It is a beautiful day. Let's kick this off.

[Ricky Marshall]

Nebraska.

[Craig Off]

Windy day in Nebraska out there. All right, little windy here in Vegas. Let's kick it off. We've got Kurt from casa Grande, Arizona. So neighbor of mine out here on one of your upcoming q and a videos. You're in luck, Kurt. This is one of those upcoming Q and a videos. Could you please dive into the purpose of, say, of 100% poi, or for that matter, the purpose of setting up different pois. I understand what poi is, but I'm not sure if I say 100%. Poi shooter sets the gun up this way because they have the tendency of stopping the gun when they pull the trigger. Thus a rising target. And the shot string leaves the gun above the target and has a built in lead. Or does a good high poi shooter still keep the gun moving. This again from Kurt from casa Grande. We're talking poi. Why do we have them trap shooting, point of impact?

[Zach Nini]

Guys, I, I know exactly how Ricky's gonna answer that question. So let's hear it, Rick.

[Ricky Marshall]

No, you go ahead. How am I gonna answer?

[Zach Nini]

No, no, go ahead.

[Ricky Marshall]

No, I'm gonna throw you a curveball. The poi honestly, is up to each individual shooter. I don't say you gotta have 100, you gotta have 90, 87%. But a trap target rises. So you do want to have a little bit higher than 50, 50, you know, 60, 40 on up will work just fine. I, I set a poi by going out, setting the gun up on a straightaway target from the 27. I'm smoking the target. Okay, there's my poi. Every gun is different with how that gun moves. Also how it's balanced. If it's heavier in the back, if the bears are heavier, you know, all these things that come involved. So for Kurt, it's it basically it's up to you to figure out your poi. Don't let shooters tell you you have to have 100% because that's hogwash, you know, in my opinion, I just, I feel that each shooter, you go out shoot targets, you're breaking them good. Oh hey, it's set on 70, 30, great. But doing it handicap and then learn to shoot it at singles. That's my best advice.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I think, I think you could have three different guns all at the same point of impact and hit targets differently with each one of those guns. So it has to do with the mechanics of the move, it has to do with your eyes, it has to do with weight, it has to do with balance, it has to do with gun fit. All what Ricky said. So I mean you can't just say every gun I own shoots 150% high. I don't think that that's a, a good indicator. I don't think it's like setting a rifle where you, you dial them in. Everyone's dialed in at 300 yards. Like. Yeah, it just doesn't seem realistic to me because of the way we all move guns differently. So you know, everyone's going to be a little different. And I think there are some people out there that have to have 150% high gun or a 200% high gun. I'm sure they're out there and I think there's guys out there shooting 60, 40 and blowing them up. So it's, it's just how you move a gun.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yep, everybody's different.

[Craig Off]

Okay guys, so I can hear the listeners questions starting already. What are your pois set at? Because I think, I know we've mentioned it before on the show but let's just remind people. Ricky, what's your poi?

[Ricky Marshall]

75 to 80% is my point of impact on all three barrels.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky Marshall]

Trap gun and then my other guns are set around the 70ish that I shoot sporting. So that's why I can transition from one gun to the next.

[Craig Off]

And okay. And Zach, what about you, bud?

[Zach Nini]

80, 20, all three barrels and trap and then 70, 30 in my sporting clays gun. I mean just a little bit flatter. I mean not, not much. I mean and it might even three inches basically.

[Ricky Marshall]

So you're not, you know, it, it's not a lot. Don't, don't get wrapped up in poi. Like I said, go to the club, set that gun, set the trap on straightaways. Get it set up where you got a figure 8 or however you like to look down it. Personally I like people to look down and see a, some type of a figure eight and, and then go from there. Now you could say, well now I like seeing the space. That's fine. Okay. And you could say, well, the gun does shoot higher for me. Yes. It would shoot our view because if I mounted it and see a figure eight, I shoot a go, it's 60, 40 correct into the barrel and it's going to shoot a little higher. So set it up on targets. Don't do it on a patterning board. That is, in my opinion it's overrated. The patterning board. What's it good for? Left to right.

[Craig Off]

Right.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think you could definitely pattern it after the fact to figure out where it's at. And, and that left to right makes a lot of sense. But, but to say, well, you know, I've got to set it here to have success. I don't know if that's necessarily true. I mean, because I've had, I've, I've shot the highest gun I ever shot was my ludic and that shot about 110% high.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

And so for me, that gun, I mean I pointed right at the same way I point now. But maybe I wasn't swinging the gun back as, as hard when I was, you know, 15 or 16 years old. Right. I mean, so you, you know, maybe the gun moved slower. Maybe the lock time was slower. Like there's things there that, that you're not always thinking about.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yep.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, I think that's probably, that's probably some of the best advice for the listeners is don't pay too much attention to the poi. Take it out to the trap. Lock that trap on straight away. Stand at Rick your handicap yardage first.

[Ricky Marshall]

I should.

[Craig Off]

Is that where you would start?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, I set everything up at the 27 and, and then I once I get it dialed in where I'm literally center punching targets. The I walk up to the 16 and go O. Maybe I'm a little high.

[Craig Off]

How am I going to shoot these?

[Ricky Marshall]

Slow down my move a little bit because I'm not going to. I'm not a guy that's going to put a washer in to shoot handicap. Take one out to shoot singles. I got to add two in to shoot doubles. No, leave it the same. Shooting a combo gun all the same.

[Zach Nini]

Figure it out.

[Craig Off]

So yeah, so set it, set it for handicap and then go shoot singles. I mean figure out how to shoot your singles with that setting. Keep everything the same. I think that's really great advice. One follow up question that hasn't really come up yet. We hear about guys sending off their barrels right Oh, I sent my barrel to this barrel guy, and we know there's a couple of really good ones out there, and they tune the barrels. And I. He asked me, well, where do you want it to shoot? And I said, oh, I wanted to shoot 8020. So he set my barrels to 8020. This part, I've never understood that. How can you set my barrel to a point of impact without my face? This part I don't get stacked.

[Ricky Marshall]

You. You have to, you have to send it in and, and you know, one of the best guys out there that I dealt with in the past, Tommy Wilkinson, you know, I mean, he can make barrels do magical things. And when I shot a, A different gun, different brand years ago, he did my barrels. And I could tell you, I, I did, I said, I said, I want this to shoot 80, 20, stack, beads, figure 8, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Comb everything like it is. So that's how he gets it down. It's all in a vice, though.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's what I try to tell people too, when they're patterning. Like you want to get a true pattern, put your gun in a vice, figure eight on the spot, and then shoot it and see what it does.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah. And like you're saying, John, you know, how does he get it to that spot? Well, if you say, I want 80, 20, and, and I think it's more dealing with fixed strip guns, right? Because you have a fixed strip gun. I mean, you could do, you. You could do it with an unsingle or anything. But if you say, hey, the setting, I've got it on, I want it on 80, 20, he's going to line up those beads and put it that way. Now if you put space in the beads, guess what? It's not 80, 20 anymore. It's 9010 or it's 100.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach Nini]

So, you know, but. But all things being the same, if it's vied stacked beads or stacked beads, whether it's for me, Ricky or John, I mean, it should all be.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

You know, zeroed in on that.

[Ricky Marshall]

I can tell you from past experience, especially with Tommy Wilkinson, I, I've never dealt with any of the other ones, just Tommy. And so I sent him a gun that was a fixed rib gun and said, I want the new gun, which was an adjustable gun to the same look, everything same poi. I got it back and it looked like factory settings, was 60, 40, and it shot 80, 20. And I.

[Zach Nini]

Because he's cutting a different angle in the barrel.

[Ricky Marshall]

Well, I, I pulled. No, he just Changed some stuff. Did diff, you know, the choke and everything. Fixed choke, though. But I. I pulled it out of the box. And that day I shot 300 targets. 100 singles, 100 handicap, 100 doubles. And I went 99, 99, 99.

[Zach Nini]

And it sent it back.

[Craig Off]

You sent it back because you were like, hey, man, this thing.

[Zach Nini]

Where's my hundred?

[Ricky Marshall]

It was. It was interesting that I. It was balanced close, but I was like, wow. I literally, like, the look was the same, the feel the same and moved. I was like, how did he do that? So, yeah, there is ways. And it, you know, they. They do that. That's their deal, not mine. I just shoot the gun.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you. I think you hear a lot about that, but I. I don't think everybody gets it done right. And so it's a little bit still of a gray area for some of us. So I've always wondered, you know, you always hear that they're definitely doing some magic in those barrels. But it was always just, how are they tuning it? So if you say 80, 20, and you know, for example, Tommy's gonna say, okay, if you stack these beads like this, it's going to shoot 80, 20, because that's the site picture that you're gonna have.

[Zach Nini]

Right?

[Craig Off]

Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Ricky Marshall]

And he would do it with the ammo included too, where you would tell them, right? Yeah, you're shooting.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

And that's, you know, so that it does help. I mean, so absolutely.

[Craig Off]

What I think on that point, what is your opinion on. And I don't want to start any controversy out there, guys, but what's the opinion on forcing comb polishing and porting on the barrels? What do you guys think about that?

[Ricky Marshall]

Since we're talking barrels, I'll just say it's. It's up to the individual.

[Craig Off]

Okay.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I think it's preference. Right. Like, I've shot some Wilkinson barrels and I'm like, wow, these really crush a target. But then, you know, I've obviously, you know, seen just factory standard barrels that crush a target. So it doesn't. It doesn't matter. In my mind, it's a preference. Right now there's some guys that swear by porting, but the ones that I know that do swear by porting, they're like, oh, I port my first shot a doubles. And I don't really poured anything else. But, like, for me, I just hated how messy it was. Like, it's always dirty and blowing stuff into my, you know, glasses. And, you know, Ricky's yelling at me because there's, you know, stuff flying off the side of him shooting, you know, just. It's not good.

[Ricky Marshall]

You just keep, you know, clean sideways at us folks.

[Zach Nini]

Right.

[Ricky Marshall]

So importing, in my opinion, on some guns, and I had other guns ported, it did help, but it was just, you know, so it's all prep.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah. Here's the other question. Like, how much does it help? Like, how much? And is it gonna make a difference? I mean, we're getting so minutia, right? I think, you know, this is the stuff that's like one target out of a thousand. And I know the game is a very tight game, but, like, this is not stuff that's going to get you a couple targets, 100. This is stuff that's going to get you maybe a little bit of a better break or maybe a target over a long period of time, if at all.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you're right. The game does come down to very small margins, you know, for the high level competitors like you guys. And so I think some of us just on. On the fringe who are just curious about these things, you know, for example, porting and barrel tuning and all that kind of stuff. So. All right, well, hey, Kurt from Casa Grande, Arizona. Thank you for the question, guys. Thank you for the answer. All right, we're moving on. This is an extravaganza. We've got lots of questions to get through here. All right, next question coming in, another long one, which I appreciate everyone with the long questions, no punctuation. I really appreciate you testing my reading out loud skills.

[Zach Nini]

Keep some honest.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, we'll test it again here from Chet from Prescott, Arizona. Lot of fans in Arizona. First off, I want to say thank you for the great videos and podcast.

[Zach Nini]

Thank you.

[Craig Off]

You're welcome. Yeah, thank you, Chet, for listening.

[Zach Nini]

Listening.

[Craig Off]

Tell your friends the first registered targets I ever shot were in 1971 of October. The last registered targets that I shot were in 1991. After watching your great videos, you inspired me to start shooting again this year. I am really struggling, but I hope to keep improving. Chet is getting back in the game. Awesome, Chet. That's really cool.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's awesome to hear.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Zach mentions driving to the target, so I would like to get some clarification on that term. When driving to the target, does that involve the entire body? I move my gun to the target based on my video my wife has taken, but hoping to get some specifics on what that means and maybe something I should be working on. So again, Chet, thank you. Zach, you mentioned driving to the target. I think we hear that a lot on the Trap Talk podcast, and Chet is wondering if you can get a little bit more info. And then I've got a part two here for Ricky.

[Ricky Marshall]

Okay, go ahead, Zachary.

[Zach Nini]

Well, driving to the target, all. I mean, when I say driving to the target is I'm going with everything I have to that direction, and I'm maintaining movement as I'm pulling the trigger. So, you know, pushing through it, if you will. But, you know, for me, I'm not. I'm not getting to a target and then finishing with my hands or kicking my knee in or anything like that. Like, if I. It's a constant forward press. So if I'm going up to a target and I'm using my knees, my hips, my shoulders at 10% or whatever, I'm pushing all of that motion through the bird and looking at the target the whole time. I. Ideally, you don't want the gun to stop once you get it to the target. You want to get to that front, front edge or, you know, wherever you want it to be, whatever you need to see. And then as you're shooting, it's just continue that motion all the way through the break. So that's. That's what I mean by that. And. And I see a lot of people stopping the gun. So, like most. Most common thing that I see in a lot of lessons at the gun club is people get right to the spot they want to get to, and then they lock their hands up and they stop. And. And that's going to cause bad problems in the long run.

[Craig Off]

All right, I love it. Okay, Chat. That is driving to the target from Zach.

[Zach Nini]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky. Bullshit. And we both love them.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yep. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better. Folks, get yourself a Craig off. Your scores will increase.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better, and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[Zach Nini]

Of course. Yeah. The Grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[Ricky Marshall]

Just remember, winners shoot winning.

[Zach Nini]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

All right, Ricky, this is the part two. Also, Ricky mentioned in the show with Charlie Long that raising your eyes, trying to peek at a target can have the same result as lifting your head off the stock. I believe most of my troubles are eye related, so I would like to understand this better. It seems that your eyes go to the target and then the gun will follow. So wouldn't lifting your eyes work the same? Lift the eyes and the gun follows. Then thank you all for doing being great advocates of trap shooting. Regards, Chet. Psalm from Prescott, Arizona. So, Ricky, lifting the eyes versus, I think taking your eyes to the target. Right. I think that's what you were probably talking about.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yep. Yeah. So Chet's actually a student of mine that I did lessons with on. He drove his motor home down camp next to me and stuff. And great guy, shot pretty well the spring Grant came out and shot the whole shoot. Couldn't stay on the grounds. He had to stay at the casino. So. But so when you. When you. What I'm talking about is if you're lifting your eyes, that's fine by just lifting your eyes up. But when you lift your eyes, most people lift their eyes, which involves lifting your head, which. My head's still attached here, but it's not locked in here. So when you lift up like this much, we're talking. You're going to see about this much over the beads. And then guess what happens at the target? Your feet. So that's what I'm meaning, is stay locked in. When the eyes move, the gun will follow. Anytime I'm looking somewhere, my hands are going to follow. If I'm attached.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah. And Ricky's taught me this in the past, too. It involves looking too far ahead and over the gun before you call pull. So even if my head's mashed down in this position, but I look way, way, way up, and I've got six inches between the end of the gun and the tip. That could be the same thing. So it doesn't even have to involve your head. It could just be starting your eyes too far above the gun. Now, for me, I start above the gun. Ricky's looking through the gun. But my above the gun is never more than a quarter. Like. Like the distance of a quarter or even a half a quarter. It's not very much. And if you get too much separation, that's going to cause some problems.

[Ricky Marshall]

So, number one, keep your head down at all times. See the target, and drive through the target. That's what I'm gonna be. The target said, you know, like Zach said, when you're driving through, you're. You got to keep the gun moving. You can't. You. You're not pushing with one hand or the other. It's a continuous motion through the target.

[Craig Off]

So. Hey, so, Ricky, if we were recording you shooting in slow motion from the front, which is hard to do, but if we were doing that, would we highly recommend it? Yeah, maybe we'll mount something on there. But would. Would we see in. In this kind of setup? Would we see. Kind of like you're calling for pull. The target comes out, your eyes move, and then the gun moves. Would we see that? Is that really the. One, two. Okay. All right. And I. Yeah, quick deal.

[Ricky Marshall]

I was doing a. A class years ago in Indiana at Glen Park. Isaac Walton, and I had a gentleman that when I was teaching doubles, you know, you. You see the first target. Okay. You move, and then when you go to see the second one, you shoot the first one. Bang. Your eyes switch and then go. And he said, nah, you. You can't do that. And I said, no, that's what it is. Well, he had. It was an 8 millimeter camera.

[Craig Off]

Oh, okay.

[Ricky Marshall]

Millimeter. You can slow down. So he's like, I want to video you. And I'm like, well, go ahead. I don't think that's such a good idea. But he goes, well, how about. Can I get down, like, below where you're shooting? And I was like, yeah, that's fine. So what I would do, I would.

[Craig Off]

Have loved to have seen this, but.

[Ricky Marshall]

I actually put the shells in, held them, and then closed it with the gun and upward.

[Craig Off]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

And then. But he was right here. There was no way to. And the camera up. So literally, I'm not kidding you, when I shot, the camera was like, right here. So right, boom. And as I. I was moving over, we did like, three pairs. And he's looking at it through the deal, and he. And all I remember him is going.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, you do do that.

[Ricky Marshall]

And I'm like, you pro.

[Craig Off]

You. You proved him. Yeah, you proved it, right?

[Ricky Marshall]

TV blew it up. And he goes. And you could just see in slow mo, bang. And then. And then the gun. And he was like, well, I don't do that. And I said, that's pretty cool. This. You go bang. And then. Yeah, come off. And I said, yeah, yeah, More people Go.

[Zach Nini]

Bang. And they stay with the gun, and they hunt. On the way over with the gun, they're looking at the end, and they're hunting. And I think that's more common. Instead of bang and lift, it's dang. I'm looking forward, and, oh, it's over there. Let's move the gun and move the eyes together. And I feel like you're looking through a tube when you do that. You're looking. You're looking through that little area, and it's like, oh, what's going on? Versus I see it. I need to make a move over there. Yep.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Yeah, that. That. That is. I think probably you're right, Zach. I think that's probably the most common thing. I've been even trying to just say to myself as that pre shot, you know, kind of blocking phrase. Like, I eyes first. Like, just trying to remind myself, don't move. Let the eyes go. Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

The other thing, too, though, is, is. And I. And I've watched Ricky shoot so much, and he's so good at it, but, like, it's not. It's not like he's looking at the target forever. And then the gun's going like, it's. It's almost instantaneous. It's. His eyes go. And the gun starts to go. It's. It's never. It's never like, oh, I'm gonna look at it with my eyes until it gets to apex, and then, boom, I'm gonna throw the gun like, yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

See the flash. And that's what I try to tell people is you don't want to move on the flash. Meaning, you know. You know, you. You see the flash. Oh. And then you go. And then as soon as I literally, honestly, I move the gun maybe an inch or two, that target is crystal clear.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

And then, boom. Then I drive through it and shoot. Follow through. Keep your head down. So.

[Craig Off]

But, I mean, even that millisecond of eyes first keeps you from. Because if you're. Well, we all know if you move the gun on the call.

[Zach Nini]

Oh, yeah, it can be painful. There are a few guys that can do it, but they're doing it purposefully. Right.

[Craig Off]

It's Right. Yeah. That's different, right? Yeah, that's different for sure. Well, hey, Chet, thank you for the great question. Thanks for coming out to Tucson and working with Ricky.

[Zach Nini]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank some more sponsors. We. We've got game masters. Ricky, you're our guy over there, right?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yep. I. I sell every gun you could Imagine we got ton of Craig Offs, every other brand available. So if you guys need something, let us know. We can hook you up. Worth the shoots. We got vendor buildings in Arizona, Ohio, and then Sparta at the Grand American.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I do like sucking up that free AC in Sparta, that's for sure. I mean, it's a good time. Come by and say hi to us.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's right.

[Zach Nini]

Also shot tracker. I mean we've, we've had great success with them. Ricky, you've been involved since day one.

[Ricky Marshall]

So it's like having a coach on the end of your barrel. It's a great tool, especially for doubles. That's what I really like it for. You can see the transition moving from the first target to the second target. That's where a lot of people get lost in no man's land, you know, losing that target.

[Zach Nini]

I love that. And I also love the new software update. The stuff that's to going, coming down the pipe. Those guys are constantly innovating. So with that being said, let's get.

[Ricky Marshall]

Back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Okay guys, moving on here, the. Yeah, the extravaganza continues. All right, this question is coming in from Ralph P. Ralph says. Hello guys. I am a new shooter who just joined the ata. Ralph, welcome to the ata.

[Zach Nini]

Welcome.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, welcome, welcome. I'm seeing shoots pop up locally that we can register targets or not register. Is there any benefit to not registering or reason specifically to register them? So I think he's seeing maybe some non registered league shoots or something like that maybe around. So yeah, Ralph's first part of his question is any benefit to registered versus non registered.

[Ricky Marshall]

I, I don't. The only non registered stuff I shoot is practice. If I do. And if we're to shoot and they throw like 50 birders or something that are non registered, which I'd rather be registered get, you know, but it's okay.

[Craig Off]

All American points though, Rick, it could, you know, you only get 1300 targets.

[Ricky Marshall]

Well, that's right. We gotta worry about the points. I'm worried about the quiche.

[Craig Off]

I know, I know, I know.

[Zach Nini]

So I get the same money if.

[Craig Off]

It'S registered or not.

[Zach Nini]

When I started shooting, I didn't even know what the ATA was. I shot leagues and unregistered shoots. And so it's kind of like minor league, major league in my mind where a lot of these little unregistered shoots are just, you know, they're newer shooters. You don't have, you know, all Americans showing up to them generally. And you know, you kind of get your, your feet Wet. And I don't see any issue with that at all. Usually they're 50 bird kind of. 50. 50, 50. Deal. But I mean, if you want to go and you want to shoot where everybody's at and you want to compete at the highest level, well, then you're going to have to go to, you know, big state shoots, satellite grands and you know, the grand. And, and that's all. All I really have to say about it. I don't think there's disadvantages or advantages, you know, as long as you're not doing it from a, you know, I guess a, a bad position. I mean, where you're, you're saying, well, I'm going to go learn how to shoot non registered shoots and then come in and clean out some ATA shoots. Like, like, you know, it's, you know, no condition shooters. You know what I mean?

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Kentucky Shots fired.

[Zach Nini]

Kentucky the Keith Ditto Land. I mean he's been out there just working, you know.

[Craig Off]

Well, here's the thing. You know, the ATA offers big 50s, right? 50 singles, 50 handicap, 25 pair of doubles.

[Ricky Marshall]

The.

[Craig Off]

You can shoot these as non registered if you want. And the ATA is doing that to get you involved into shooting. Right. So there's no problem there. But let me just. Let's check out the second part of the. Of Ralph's question here because I think it adds a little bit of light to.

[Zach Nini]

You're holding part two out on us early. I figured we'd get the whole thing.

[Craig Off]

Hey, listen, we're changing it up a little. We got to break it up a little bit. It's just so I don't have to read out loud so much. These are long questions, guys. Okay, you know what?

[Ricky Marshall]

You hold out, I do this.

[Craig Off]

Hey, put that pin down. All right. Okay. He says, I'm doing everything in my power to get better. I'm practicing, I'm reading articles, I'm listening to the podcast. Obviously, very important to be a triple A shooter.

[Zach Nini]

Step One podcast.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, Step One podcast. I'm nervous and I know the only way to learn to work through that is to experience these events. Very true. The more you go to these events, right, guys, I mean, the less nervous you'll be.

[Zach Nini]

I'm still. I mean, everyone gets nervous.

[Craig Off]

It's very normal. Yeah, here's, here's the part I don't want to get discouraged by having a terrible performance. But from what I've learned from the podcast and reading articles, I don't foresee that as being a big issue. So I. What, what I would say to Ralph, guys, is don't be scared about putting up a bad score at a big event. That's. Don't worry about the. Yeah, you need to shoot. Because even always.

[Ricky Marshall]

There's always another post, there's another round, there's another event, there's another day, and there's another shoot. Listen, we all went through it. I. I've had bad days, I've had bad shoots. Chalk it up to, you know what? Maybe I need to do something a little different. I, you know, analyze your performance and. But listen, go and have fun. Okay?

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, yeah. You know, don't worry about it. If you have a bad score, don't embarrass yourself. It's not about that. It's about experiencing it. And unfortunately, I love that you're listening to the podcast, but the best way to experience it is by going and shooting and getting out there and doing it. So, you know, listen to the podcast, read books and all that stuff, but you're gonna get nervous, and you. You can only get nervous when you're actually in an event, and that means you're excited. Right? So that's. That's a good thing. Like, that feeling is a good feeling. It shouldn't be something that you try to, you know, forget. So.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

And the other thing is just real quick. I was told this a long time ago. You haven't shot your lowest score yet.

[Craig Off]

Yes.

[Zach Nini]

I got basset hound out of here. The dog. The dog.

[Ricky Marshall]

Huh?

[Zach Nini]

Oh, this one's Andy.

[Craig Off]

Oh, what's up, Andy?

[Ricky Marshall]

Andy.

[Zach Nini]

Oh, he's out taking a. And outside. I don't know.

[Craig Off]

Well, hey, Ralph, we appreciate the question. I. I will echo what these guys are saying.

[Zach Nini]

You.

[Craig Off]

Even when you're not winning the competition, you're learning a lot. And you. The more targets that you shoot at, the. The more comfortable you will become. Get out there, shoot as many events as you possibly can, and that's how you're gonna improve.

[Ricky Marshall]

So come say hello to us at one of the shoots.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Say hi for sure. Yeah. So, Ralph, again, thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for the great question.

[Zach Nini]

All right, guys, we got to take another quick break, and thanks more sponsors. We got to say big thank you to White Flyer, America's best targets. You make them, we break them. Right, Rick?

[Ricky Marshall]

That's right. We got the new eco flyer that we helped design, myself and Sean Holly. That's out now. Available out of the Georgia factory. That's an awesome target. Look for that, you know, going to be available hopefully everywhere by 2020. 5. But, yeah, they are best target in the industry.

[Zach Nini]

I'm looking forward to the Blue Gray Shootout this year at the grand, too. That's going to be a fun event.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, it'll. You're in that dude this year, aren't you, Zach?

[Zach Nini]

We both are, aren't we?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm in it. I didn't know if you made it or not.

[Craig Off]

See?

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, that's okay. I, I, I, I skated right in there.

[Ricky Marshall]

Don't you worry.

[Zach Nini]

But, you know, we got another sponsor we gotta thank. Shotguns West. The Pelas, baby. Check out these wings. You, Ricky don't got these. He ain't that stylish, folks.

[Ricky Marshall]

Listen, Zach tries to wear these driving down the road doing podcasts. It's okay.

[Zach Nini]

We still love when you look good. You don't have to apologize. Remember that not only can you hit more targets, but you could look good doing it. Give Ryan a call.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's right.

[Zach Nini]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Here we go. Question coming in from Joe Camacho. I don't know if that's a real name, but we're going to go with it. All right, Joe Camacho, first off, absolutely love the work you are doing. Keep it up. Thank you, Joe. Secondly, I noticed when I go to other locations with a new trap house and trap, things are very understandably different. And my score goes down a few targets per round. I understand the reason behind that, but the question is, what do you do when you show up at a new location and you haven't shot at it before or for a long time? What things are you looking at to adjust or what's your approach? Thanks for the help, Joe Camacho. So Joe's traveling outside his local club. He's going to other places to shoot. He's traveling around. That's awesome. That's a lot of fun. And he's wondering, what are you guys doing? Maybe if you hit a location you haven't been to, or what are you looking for in the trap?

[Ricky Marshall]

Honestly, I. If I go to a new location, I just kind of watch what the targets look like. As far as the traps, my gun sits on the house no matter what. The trap house looks like the only.

[Zach Nini]

Drug for Ricky to get to new locations because he's been everywhere there is to shoot in the country.

[Ricky Marshall]

So.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, right.

[Zach Nini]

You know, so that's a hard question. You might be able to ask me that question, but Ricky, I mean, he shot them all, so you can't.

[Ricky Marshall]

I would say there's only one location. We've talked about this before that, that I've changed and had to change, and that was the old Spokane Gun Club because their trap houses were an extra six feet wider and, you know, because of storage reasons. But honestly, you know, just do what you do. Go shoot a practice. That would be my recommendation to kind of see how the targets are going and stuff. You know, I. I go and sit and watch targets, even I could be standing there talking to someone and. And not take away the conversation with the person, but I could be seeing what targets are doing and watching other breaking. I'm like, okay, I don't get. I don't know how to say. Just I don't get wrapped up in.

[Zach Nini]

Like, oh, my God, we're analytical mile.

[Ricky Marshall]

Per hour faster, move your gun a little quicker type of deal. But, you know, you gotta see the target, but you want to go and literally pay attention and do some target watching.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, I agree.

[Ricky Marshall]

Rick's.

[Zach Nini]

Rick's right on the money with this. I think the only thing I would add to it is I do look for similarities. So there are some similarities from one gun club to the next gun club. You know, so like, backgrounds, the difference between shooting on corn or shooting on, you know, grass or shooting on blue sky. Right. So I know, I know how blue sky is going to react blue sky to blue sky. So if I've shot blue sky and I go back over here, are they blue sky? Okay, I kind of know what's going on there. I'm shooting over corn a distance. And one thing that kind of messes with me a little bit is there's distance of corn. So, like, is the corn right up on the trap house or is it pushed out of far away? That makes a difference on how that target looks. And I think background is everything. And going from place to place just kind of saying, oh, yeah, this background reminds me of xyz. What did I do there? And. And what happened there? I'm like, Ricky, I'm not changing my hold points a lot. Very rarely am I going, you know, up above the house. I mean, I will sometimes if I have to, for whatever reasons, but I'm not. Not changing a lot there. And I think you just have to adapt to the target in the air. But based on what's going on, I mean, some traps throw a little bit of an. More of an angle. Some traps don't.

[Ricky Marshall]

You could answer this for. For Joe, because Joe is from Northern California. You know, it's. He's the coach where I did the, The Clinic at. Up there in Rick.

[Craig Off]

Ricky knows everybody.

[Zach Nini]

When you're traveling with Ricky, you can just meet people. You know, he's loved. You can't help it. Yeah, yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

Oh, we have fun. But, yeah, no, and that's. And so different, Zach. You could relate more to that for, like, the California area, but most clubs I've been out there, all the traps been different. The only different facility I was ever at out there was a Tascadero. Did you ever shoot a Tascadero, Zach? Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

You're shooting right against that brim, and it's. It's so. California is crazy. And. And I got to give a shout out to my California trap shooters, because literally, you're gonna go to three different clubs within an hour from each other, and you're gonna see three different backgrounds that are, like, wildly different than anywhere you've ever shot. You go to Iowa or you go to Kansas, and it's like, okay, we're shooting in Kansas. It's all the same. But, I mean, you go to California, Kingsburg is one way, Sunnyvale is another way. Livermore's a complete another way. Martinez is a death trap. And then, you know, you go to all these places, and you're like, holy crap. Like. And it teaches you to. To learn to adapt. And the one thing that I kept hearing from the really good shooters that I aspired to be when I was coming up was, well, if you could shoot here, you could shoot anywhere. And that's. That was the thing that kept me hungry at those clubs when it was moving around, because. And. And I think so many people nowadays, I'm looking on Facebook and I'm seeing comments of, well, the targets aren't great here, and the targets aren't great there, and this, that, and other thing, I don't care what they're doing is there's a winner that day and there's a loser that day, and if it takes a 92 at Martinez to win and you shot a 92, then congratulations. Right? I mean, it. It's still. It's still winning. It's still making money on that event. And that is what I think the sport needs to get back to, because I think so many people are in the mindset that we have to have this perfect target, perfect. Perfect angle, perfect everything. And they want, you know, these mega scores. And, you know, nothing wrong with going to Sparta and shooting mega scores or going to Iowa and shooting mega scores, right? There's nothing wrong with that, but I think there's still a really good place for Winning a handicap with an 88 and making four grand in. In Nevada. Right. Like, it's, it's.

[Craig Off]

That's awesome with that.

[Zach Nini]

There's nothing wrong with that, right? Winnings?

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And, and you're right about California. I mean, coming up In California, different ATA shoot every weekend at a different club. You know, LA clays, oak tree.

[Zach Nini]

Santa Maria.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of options there. You definitely had a good amount of options there. I think one of the things that some of the newer, newer shooters focus on is they focus on too many of the finer details too much. And I think when you, as you guys have talked to, obviously you guys being great shooters and then you talk to, you know, Pat Lamond and Keith Ditto and Voightman and all these guys and you hear a lot of, oh, well, I, I just look at the target and shoot the target and they're just focusing on what's important. The target. Yeah, Just, you know, get on to the target.

[Zach Nini]

So I think that's very important. Everywhere you go, you know, it really is.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Other stuff fade into the background.

[Zach Nini]

You know, if the light is bad or the background is hard, then you're not going to see the target as well right off the bat. So you have to just kind of adjust to that.

[Ricky Marshall]

Adjust everything.

[Craig Off]

I agree. I agree. Well, hey, Joe Camacho from Northern Cal. Thank you for the question. We appreciate it.

[Zach Nini]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line. Oun 87 and a half an STS ounce and 8th eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[Ricky Marshall]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, outlaw engineering, Randy Fren R2 out. Known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, surveying, drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[Zach Nini]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah. His dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support and really appreciate it here at Trap.

[Zach Nini]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

Here we go. Oliver J. Patton writes in and says, a lot of the shooters like me are parents. They work full time and simply can't afford to travel and shoot several thousand rounds a year. Does the casual club shooter have any place in an ATA shoot? Or unless you can put. Put up a high score or a high target count, is this kind of a waste? Sorry for the long message. I love this sport and I'd love to hear more and talk from the perspective of the casual weekly club shoots. Oliver J. Patton.

[Ricky Marshall]

Go shoot every shoot you possibly can. Don't just stick around and shoot a, you know, club shoots. I mean, yes, it all starts at the small clubs, and I think. I think we've lost a little sight on that. But I mean, when I was growing up, I wanted to go shoot everywhere. Small shoot, big shoots, wherever I could go and see different places. And, you know, I was fortunate to do that. And that's why Zach talks about, you know, I know a lot of people. I've traveled a lot and to a lot of different clubs and enjoyed it, not only to shoot, but to teach. So I always enjoy it. And that's why I always say, you know, I can say I've shot targets in different places, not registered, but in a clinic, I'll take someone's gun and be like, oh, let me shoot a couple targets.

[Craig Off]

Right?

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, Yeah. I think, I mean, you know, he. He mentioned income and, you know, taking this from a financial standpoint and looking at it, we all have limits. Everyone has a different limit to what they can do and what they can't do. I think at the end of the day, you know, if you're in a position where all you can do is wheat league shoots and close shoots and stuff like that, then that's fantastic. I think if you can go to an ATA shoot, maybe your kids shooting a shoot and you want to shoot an event, I would say pick an event that you feel confident in. So if you think, okay, I feel like I have the best chance in singles or the best chance in handicap or the best chance in doubles. Maybe just pick one event. You don't have to all shoot all three events, and then I would pick where you have the most fun. So maybe, hey, we go to our state shoot every year and that's our splurge and I get to see all my people or I go to the grand every Year, and that's my splurge. And I get to see all these people. Well, then pick it based on that because everyone wants to shoot all the shoots and have an endless supply of money. But I mean, right now, with inflation, with things going on, it's, it's, it's okay that you can't afford to go to every single shoot. I mean, we understand that it's, it's. It's a matter of having fun. And don't feel bad just because you go out and you shoot and you don't win every time you shoot an ATA event. I mean, that's. There's very few people that actually can do that, by the way. Like there's. The majority of people are just shooting the game because they love it. They're not shooting it to win every single time. I mean, we all can't be like Ricky Marshalls and Joe Charnago's and, you know, the killers of the world. Right? I mean, just, Just enjoy the sport.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have fun. Shoot what you can. It obviously it's. There's a rare smaller group of people. They get to travel around and kind of do all the big shoots and, you know, but hey, if you've got a local shoot and you're having fun out there, I say, Oliver, get out there. Have fun.

[Ricky Marshall]

Get out there.

[Zach Nini]

Don't be afraid to register some targets. Just go do it.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, Agreed. Agreed. All right, Oliver, thank you for the question. Thank you for listening.

[Zach Nini]

Hey, Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay Shoot Management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean, they've got majority of the satellite grands. Majority. The state shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with, with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You can see your squad if they paid. You know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal. They're just.

[Zach Nini]

Ricky, how much money he made before he even got off the line, he was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I know they're. They're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah. Cole, Larry Cushman, been long time support supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance. In literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great. They're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife animals and that such and your guns.

[Zach Nini]

It's just a great, it's, it's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got those Craig offs, you got to keep them insured. So. Oh. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

All right, we're moving on, guys. Jesse Adkins writes in from Denver. Former student of Ricky Marshall says during one of our previous Q A sessions, the pre shot routine was discussed by znr. That's you guys, you're znr. Um, Ricky mentioned his trigger control as being one of his strengths. My question is, what practice routine would you guys recommend to develop stronger trigger control? Don't pull the trigger until it's time.

[Zach Nini]

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Ricky Marshall]

Honestly, trigger control is within yourself. Not everybody can do it. You where it comes. Honestly, your eyeballs.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Ricky Marshall]

Seeing that target. Oh, there it is. And being aware of your gun, everything and oh, I'm not on it now I'm on it. Go. And it, all that information goes, shoot. I mean, it's faster than the speed of light. So to be honest, there's no one taught me trigger control. It was just where I developed it was real and you know, singles and doubles, singles or singles and handicap. I'm kind of, you know, I'm good. Sometimes I'm not, but doubles is where it really is, especially on that second shot.

[Zach Nini]

It's everything. And, and, and I could say I've watched most of the great shooters in the country shoot. Ricky's probably got the most phenomenal trigger control I've ever seen because he, he can take a target, break it, and then that other target's going down in the dirt and he'll, he'll go hunting out. The only other person that I seen that had trigger control that really me like at that level was Leo. And Leo could break the first target and that second target could bounce, he could flinch on it, he could make a move, go down and like literally hit targets two or three feet off the dirt. And I'm like, man, that guy, there's just something there. And honestly, I don't think you can train that. You either have that or you don't have that. But for me, I was someone that worked on building trigger control because I found it very important in the game. So one of the drills I did early on was I just go in my garage and I'd take like duct tape or something like that and I'd go to the back wall and I just put dots like on the wall, like one on the left, one on the right, one in the middle. Kind of like a, you know, a poor, poor Italian, you know. What's that chart? Terry Jordan wall chart. Right. Like I never could afford one of those. So I just did the duct tape Zach Panini version, you know, and, and I would mount the gun and then I'd have my dad come out and I'd say, hey, tell me if it's left, tell me if it's right, tell me if it's straight, whatever. And I just go. And you know, okay, that one, that one, that one. And, and, and then when I'd go to the range, I would intentionally set really, really, really, really high targets or set a target on wobble so that, you know, if I'm on the house and they're higher than humanly imaginable that you would ever shoot in a tournament. Well, what do you got to do? You got to go all the way up to shoot it, right? So I think if you're shooting, you know, a nine foot target and you go pull, bang, pull, bang, pull, bang. You're teaching your body to go, you know, on a time where if you are on the house and I set a 50 foot target, well, I call pole. I'm not going to break it until it's up there. So I've got to hold that off. And the more you can train that and I mean, I've seen Ricky do it in Kansas where, where targets are in the, in the, in the moon. They're coming back at you and he'll be on the house, like never change a damn thing and call pull. Just go whoop. All the way up, bang. Broke the damn thing. And I'm like, how do you do that unless you train, unless you've, you know, shot that. And I think most people, they're just going to let off real early. And that's, that's a problem.

[Craig Off]

Would you guys say that? Just the, obviously the awareness of trigger control, that's step one to Know that you need to have it. And Ricky, what you're saying about the eyes is until your eyes see that sight picture, that trigger, that trigger is not getting pulled. So you, you're, you're really relying on that. And I think you've just done it so much it becomes subconscious, you know, at this point.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yes, that is correct.

[Zach Nini]

All right, folks, let's take a quick second and thank some brand new incoming sponsors of the show. These are personal friends of mine, fellow clay shooters and lovers of the outdoors, Rick and carla burk at 73 pointers ranch. Rick, tell them what we're doing.

[Ricky Marshall]

Well, we're doing a giveaway at the Grand American. So they've graciously donated a one person hunt for I think it's was it 18 quail or 12 chucker or 8 pheasants, your choice, guiding dog. We got dinner, overnight lodging, you know, breakfast. So yeah, I think it's going to be a great giveaway.

[Zach Nini]

It's a great thing. It's valued at like 1500 bucks. You can obviously bring a guest if you'd like, but you know, it's about an hour out of St. Louis Airport and if you're lucky, maybe me and Rick will go out there with you and do some bird hunting because this is an awesome place, it's a great time and if you're local to this area, it's not that far out of the city so you can be in the office and then be hunting in the afternoon. So they're great, great people and they love this show. So we really, really appreciate the love and support.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, we'd like to thank Rick and Car Harlow. We really appreciate that.

[Zach Nini]

Also we've got Mid State Precious Metals, Ron Prescott, he's a great guy for all your gold and silver needs. Ricky, tell them about our friend.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, Ron. He graciously donated a 10 ounce silver bar to our live in person podcast in Tucson. And you know, he has everything. I bought a bunch of silver from him. You know, we got our silver and gold for the, the fun day at, at the Nevada State shoot on Monday this, this year. You know, John got all the silver and gold for the Nevada State shoot. So look him up for your silver and gold needs. He'll give you the best price out there.

[Zach Nini]

He really is. And, and he's a friend of the trap shooters. I mean he's looking to get gold and silver to these gun clubs for their shoots at the lowest price across the country. He's doing him a service and helping grow the sport. So, you know, thank you so much for that, Ron.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, thank you, Ron. We appreciate it.

[Zach Nini]

With that being said, let's get to the show. All right.

[Craig Off]

Hey, moving on, guys. Let's keep it going. Next question is coming in from Charlie Lehman of New Jersey. And Charlie writes, hey, guys, today I was at the Silver Dollar White Flyer shoot, and a squad mate chipped a target which the puller called lost. FYI, the puller was an adult senior. Myself and two other squad mates told the puller it was a dead bird. The puller yelled out, he. He didn't see it and it was a lost target, and then told the squad mate to read the rule book, and he was the official. Okay, how do you think we should have handled it at the time? We did take it up with management in the clubhouse later. Thank you for your time. Charlie Lehman, New Jersey. Guys, this comes up, this happens.

[Ricky Marshall]

The rule book states exactly what the polar scores said.

[Craig Off]

They are the final word.

[Ricky Marshall]

Usually, you know, I mean, we take targets away from ourselves more than we call targets. For sure.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, for sure.

[Ricky Marshall]

So that's for sure. I mean, I have run into before where I've taken a target away and they've said, no, no, no, no market lost. But I have run into this situation where we've had the whole squad. No, no, that target was dead. I didn't see it. And normally every once in a while and at this instant, I actually had. I saw the deal, the target, and I turned on look, and they were looking down, and they looked up loss, and then they look. I was like, well, you weren't even looking. Oh. But no matter if they're a senior or not, it's just. That's.

[Zach Nini]

I think, number one, be respectful. Right? Don't. Don't cause a scene.

[Ricky Marshall]

Don't.

[Zach Nini]

Don't cuss. Don't throw a big thing. I think if you've got multiple people on the squad, they're going to back that you hit the target. And everybody's saying that. I would stop right there, respectfully, and I would call a bank boss. I would say, hey, could you call a bank boss? Could you call a gun club manager? Could you call someone? I wouldn't handle. I wouldn't handle it in the clubhouse later. I would say, hey, can you get someone over here? I really appreciate what you're doing. I would thank the scorekeeper and say, hey, I really appreciate you, you know, the integrity and not letting people cheat. Because I've seen more scorekeepers that are on the other side of it where they're like, well, I Don't know if he hit it or not, but I gave it to him. Right? So there's so many scorekeepers that I see that are just like, yeah, I just gave them that target. I gave him that target. I gave him that target. And they're. And it's usually the wad that they're seeing, and it's not like target chip. And, you know, so I think, you know, people get abused in that chair so much that that guy is. Is probably. That old man has probably been through an experience with another squad where someone was cheating or trying to cheat, and, and, you know, it happened. And maybe he said, you know what? I'm going to stand up for myself. And I'm going to. And I'm going to say, this is it. Right?

[Craig Off]

Yeah. He picked your squad and your event to put his foot down.

[Zach Nini]

You got to check your emotions at the door when you're dealing with people because you don't know where he's at. You don't know what he's been through. You don't know what's going on. And they're not paying him thousands of dollars an hour to do that. So, you know, I would say get with the squad. See if you could handle it in a respectful manner. And at the end of the day, if it costs you a target because it didn't get handled, then it's not the end of the world. Right.

[Ricky Marshall]

Like Z said originally, you, you want to just, if you're. You and two others on the squad, whatever it is, is adamant that that target was broke, stop right then and there, because as soon as that post is over, it's over. Shooter shoots the first target on the next post. Everything that happened prior is in stone, so you can't do nothing about it. So going in, talking to management afterwards, that's just trying to say, hey, this. But, yeah, that's what I would recommend.

[Craig Off]

So, yeah, yeah, I, I had the opposite happen in Tucson is just like you were saying, Rick. We said, I. I miss a bird. Clearly, the bird went left, I went right. I know I missed it 100%. The whole squad knowed I missed it. And the scorekeeper did not say loss. And we're at the 27. He's standing right behind me. I turn around, I said, hey, bud, that was a lost bird. And he goes, no, it wasn't. And I said, trust me, it was a lost bird. And he said, these were his words. I pride myself on seeing birds. And you hit that bird. And he proceeded to get out of the chair in the Middle of the round and walk off the field.

[Ricky Marshall]

And.

[Craig Off]

Would not come back and score it unless I took the bird as a, as a dead bird. And I said, you can stay over there because I'm not taking it.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, exactly.

[Craig Off]

I got all day, buddy. The RV's 20ft that way. We can stay here all day. I'm not taking it.

[Zach Nini]

I've seen that type of situation handled. And us Italians, we say we could settle this out of court. Just drill the next one right into the dir. You know, call, pull, shoot one into the dirt and you know, hey, it's fine.

[Ricky Marshall]

But then you're intentionally missing a target, be disqualified from the whole event.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, potentially. Potentially.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

They're not getting me. They're not going to get me.

[Craig Off]

We see it on both sides, Charlie.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah.

[Craig Off]

And, and, and like Zach's saying, and I will just tell you from a shoot management side of things, we, those scorekeepers really do put up with a lot. They, they're, they're, they are doing their best. Some of them take it a lot more serious than others. And it's almost like you, you find the extremes, you know, but, but think.

[Zach Nini]

About this too, people, you know, we're doing this sport because we love it in there. There's some people that I know that their career is. They're a puller and they go from shoot to shoot to shoot as pullers, and they do this. And, and it is, it is their, their deal. Right? And just because. Because it's their deal doesn't mean they're the best at it. Right. It just. It just means that's what they're doing. And, and so I've seen people treat pullers so bad and so disrespectful, and it hurts. It hurts. It hurts my heart to think about it because these people are human beings and they're trying to do a job and, you know, not everybody is blessed with the same talents and abilities. So. Yeah, you know.

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, I try to handle everything on our squad, as Zach knows. I just go back and I, I'm like, listen, you got this little button you can off.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, turn it off. Yep, there you.

[Ricky Marshall]

You're in control.

[Zach Nini]

That's a hard concept to teach.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, well, I listen, they say, you know, you hear this from shooters again, just from the shoot management side. You hear it a lot from shooters, you know, at certain shoots, hey, good help is hard to find. Well, yeah, it is hard for us to find polar sometimes at these larger events. Right. It takes a lot of people, people to run those events, and they Are doing their best. But I think what I've seen out of you guys is anytime there's any kind of issue, you guys handle it in a very respectful way. And just like Zach said, these people are humans. They're trying. Right. Everybody has their own little personality.

[Zach Nini]

We're not paying them a hundred thousand a year to score. Right.

[Craig Off]

It's not exactly.

[Ricky Marshall]

Exactly.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. So, Charlie, you did the best you could. I think the. Probably the only critique that we would give you is don't go off the field. There's nothing. Shoot management's going to do for you. Once that score sheet leaves, it's set in stone. There is zero. Yeah. Don't even start the next post. Don't leave. Don't start the next post. Just wait. Ask. Ask them to bring the tournament director over and you can talk about it with them and find a resolution, Staying respectful. But it does happen. I think the good news is it's a minority of the time. If you think about all the times you're out there shooting and it doesn't happen, you know, that's probably the good news of it. Right. Most of the time, things are running as they should. So, Charlie, keep up the good fight out there in New Jersey, and we really appreciate the question.

[Zach Nini]

All right, trap talk listeners gotta take a few more seconds for some shameless plugs. This time, we're plugging trap talk. We got the hats on. Why are you wearing the same hat as me, going all gray? We got hats. We still got some available, right, Rick?

[Ricky Marshall]

Yeah, we got multiple hats available. We got a big order of hats coming out, too. You can get them on the website. John will put the link either up here or down here. Not sure. That's up to John. So I gave him both.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, you never know where he's gonna put him. That being said, we love you guys wearing the hats at trap shoots. It really shows the support. It shows the love. Take pictures. Tag us in instagram, Tag us on Facebook. You know, send us messages. You guys wearing the hats, wear them proud. And we got a big reveal coming for the grand. I think you guys are really gonna like it. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have a place for you to maybe get some merchandise, so more details to come.

[Ricky Marshall]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Craig Off]

All right, guys, one more. And we will end this part four of the listener extravaganza. And we're going to end it on a very good question here. Yeah. All right, here's one coming in from Brit7044 on YouTube and Brit says, here's one for the ask us anything category. When the day arrives that you are eligible for the sub vet category, will you elect to be in it or will you stay in open? Sub vet is so competitive. It doesn't seem to be any different than open most of the times. Brit 70. Excuse me, Brit7044 on YouTube asks, all right, guys, when that day comes.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's for Zach, I guess.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, that was for Zach. Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

I have a lot of gray hairs, folks, but I'm a far away away from, from sub vet. So I think that's Ricky directed questions.

[Craig Off]

That may be coming after you.

[Ricky Marshall]

Rick, what is so about 55?

[Craig Off]

55?

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, 55.

[Ricky Marshall]

I got five and a half more years and honestly, I might try it just to like, hey, why not? But I like shooting open. I mean, you know, I kind of, I, I personally think if you're a category shooter, you get twice the shots at winning stuff.

[Craig Off]

Yep.

[Ricky Marshall]

But honestly, I, I, I, I might do it mine. I don't know.

[Zach Nini]

You know, when he gets there, we finally got him stumped on a question. This is. We've done 90 episodes of Trap Talk. We've never stumped them.

[Ricky Marshall]

Thinking if there's added money, it shoots, a lot of times it doesn't go to category. It goes. So I'd probably just stay in open.

[Craig Off]

Yeah, yeah. Now sometimes there is added money in the categories for sure. But Rick, I could see you going over to sub vet, taking captain and then the next year going back to open. I could see you just to say you did it. I could see it happen.

[Ricky Marshall]

That's what Chris Vendel did.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. Just to say, hey, I did it.

[Zach Nini]

You can go back and forth and I mean, it's, I don't think a guy like Ricky is looking at it and saying, oh, well, I could beat these people over here. I could beat these people over here. I don't think it looks at it that way. I think if anything it's, if he does do it, it'll be just to spice it up a little bit because, I mean, heck, he's been open for X amount of years. And you know, when I was a category shooter, I shot category. When I'm open, I shoot open. And if a category opens up again for me someday, I'll probably go try it and go from there. I don't know. I don't see any shame. I don't see any shame doing it. It's not, it's not, I mean, they're there's no, your category is just as prestigious. To win that champion, to be champion, to be a captain in that line, whether you're a lady sub vet, chair, whatever, you're the best in your division. And I think that's something to be really, really proud of. So yeah, you know, I, I, I encourage people to, to shoot their deal. If, if, if, if they're able and they're open, then what's it hurting?

[Craig Off]

And we encourage people to stay in their category and stay out of open until it's time to come over.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, Dagan.

[Craig Off]

Just, just run it out, bud.

[Ricky Marshall]

Not talk to Dagan, but he's been out practicing a little bit, I heard, because he shoots up at Omaha and I did see his dad up there last or week ago, two weeks ago. And he goes, I don't know what he's gonna do. He said he'll decide when he walks in the door at Missouri State shoot. So Zach, you know, if he's there.

[Craig Off]

Zach will be the first to know.

[Ricky Marshall]

Or if he's there to go boom on.

[Zach Nini]

You know what?

[Craig Off]

Hey, we expect breaking news. Zach from the Missouri State shoot.

[Zach Nini]

I will have my mic on with the breaking news.

[Ricky Marshall]

And hey, you need to find out when he gets there and go in with him a classification and be like.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah, yeah, thank you. We're gonna go live. It's gonna be a big deal.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. But yeah, get in his ear.

[Zach Nini]

A high level competitor like that, it doesn't matter, right? I mean, I mean, you know, one way or the other he's going to be able to compete. It's just a matter of kind of where you might finish and in both of the, I mean, at least for him, I mean he has an opportunity to be at the top of both of those teams. I mean, so it doesn't, I mean it's not like he's like, oh, well, I'm going to be a bottom tier open team or a top tier junior. I mean so there's that to think about. I think the ones that's probably like the hardest is like if you're a junior or a sub junior or a junior gold and you're a lady one. Like then you got like double category questions, right? Like, do you, do you shoot lady? Do you shoot sub junior? Do you shoot? I mean, because I've seen that.

[Ricky Marshall]

I have. Funkhouse, remember she made the, the Open team.

[Zach Nini]

Yep.

[Ricky Marshall]

81 Junior.

[Zach Nini]

Yeah. And, and I think, I think she's made it on the junior team too before though.

[Ricky Marshall]

Right?

[Zach Nini]

So like she's made, you know, an open team, a junior team. I don't know if she's made a lady team. And that would be by choice.

[Ricky Marshall]

But first one to be able to make all the teams.

[Craig Off]

Yeah.

[Zach Nini]

Hit them all. Yeah.

[Craig Off]

Hey, Brit from YouTube, thank you very much for that question. We will stay tuned. Zach's gonna let us know what happens with Dagan at the Missouri State shoot. We'll see what happens with Rick here in about five and a half years.

[Zach Nini]

That's right.

[Craig Off]

Yeah. So stay tuned for that. Listen, everyone, thank you so much for sending in the questions. Thank you for supporting Trap Talk. We really appreciate it. If you want to send your question in, ask us attrap talk podcast.com and we'll get these two guys to answer them for you. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. And the Trap Talk podcast is brought.

[Zach Nini]

To you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. You want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call. Today, Zach Nini Financial. We believe in putting people first.