Part 1: Listener Question Extravaganza | Trap Talk Podcast Episode 109

Summary

Summary of "Trap Talk From The Back Fence" - Episode 109: Part 1: Listener Question Extravaganza

In Episode 109 of the Trap Talk podcast, hosts Zach Nannini and Richard "Ricky" Marshall Jr., alongside co-host John, dive into a listener-driven discussion focusing on various aspects of trapshooting. Released on January 17, 2025, this episode serves as an invaluable resource for both novice and experienced shooters, addressing common challenges and providing expert insights into the competitive shooting landscape.

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1. Navigating the Grand American: AIM Grand vs. Normal Grand

Listener: Alana Paulson
Timestamp: [00:25 - 05:05]

Question:
Alana seeks advice on whether a first-time grand attendee participating as a sub junior should attend the AIM Grand or the standard Grand American event.

Discussion Highlights:

• Zach's Perspective: Emphasizes that the Grand American is the premier event, attracting top shooters and offering comprehensive competition with over 2,600 targets. He advises participants to immerse themselves fully if they aim to compete at a high level.

  "[02:32] Zach: ... shoot the whole main week is my opinion."

• Ricky's Insights: Highlights the AIM Grand as a more suitable option for younger shooters looking for a social and engaging experience. He mentions activities like the opening ceremony, pizza parties, and scavenger hunts that enhance the event's appeal for youth.

  "[03:55] Zach: ... And shoot the whole main week is my opinion."

• Strategic Choice: The decision hinges on the participant's goals—competitive focus versus experiential enjoyment. Attending the Grand American is ideal for those serious about competing against the best, while the AIM Grand offers a more age-appropriate and community-oriented environment.

Notable Quote:

"[00:57] Ricky: I love listener questions. I live for it."

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2. Transitioning from Recreational to Competitive Shooting

Listener: Brian Hayes
Timestamp: [06:21 - 39:15]

Question:
Brian inquires about making the leap from recreational shooting to competitive trapshooting without having any mentors or existing connections in the sport.

Discussion Highlights:

• Zach's Advice: Encourages joining local gun clubs and attending ATA (American Trapshooting Association) registered shoots. Emphasizes the importance of showing up, participating actively, and engaging with fellow shooters to build a support network.

  "[06:37] John: ... just show up and introduce yourself to people."

• Ricky's Strategy: Suggests planning which shoots to attend, potentially with a friend, to ease the transition. Highlighting the benefits of attending various events to gain experience and meet new people.

  "[07:42] Ricky: Exactly what Rick's saying..."

• Community Engagement: Stresses that the trapshooting community is welcoming and supportive, making it easier for newcomers to integrate by actively participating and networking.

Notable Quote:

"[16:12] John: ... the best way to do it is to say, first of all, plan it."

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3. Understanding the All American Points System

Listener: Michael Stake
Timestamp: [16:12 - 38:22]

Question:
Michael seeks clarity on how to accumulate points for making an All American team and the number of points required to achieve this goal.

Discussion Highlights:

• Zach's Breakdown: Explains the current points system, which is heavily influenced by shoot attendance and performance. Points are awarded based on the attendance factor of each event and the shooter's placement (e.g., champion, second place).

  "[16:50] Zach: ... based on the attendance factor."

• Rick's Analysis: Discusses the evolution of the points system, noting that while it's easier to earn points now, the total points required to make teams have increased significantly over the years.

  "[28:30] Rick: 100%. Way easier to get points."

• Strategic Participation: Advises shooters to attend high-attendance events like the Heartland Grand and the Grand American to maximize point opportunities. Emphasizes balancing the number of shoots attended with budget constraints, as only seven shoots can be counted towards the total score.

  "[22:55] Rick: ... you can only use seven shoots."

• Historical Context: Provides a comparison between past and present points requirements, illustrating how the baseline for team selection has risen.

Notable Quote:

"[22:55] Rick: ... you can only use seven shoots."

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4. Adjusting to One-Eyed Shooting Techniques

Listener: Corey Roulette
Timestamp: [39:13 - 53:39]

Question:
Corey has recently transitioned to being a one-eyed shooter and is currently using an unsingle shotgun. He seeks tips for shooting with one eye and whether he should continue with an unsingle or consider a top single shotgun.

Discussion Highlights:

• Zach's Recommendations: Suggests that Corey experiment with both unsingle and top single shotguns to determine which offers better visibility and comfort. He shares his preference for unsingles, drawing from his extensive experience.

  "[39:56] Zach: ... try a top single and see what look is best for him."

• Rick's Insights: Emphasizes the importance of understanding the reasons behind the switch to one-eyed shooting. He advises examining the balance and weight distribution of the shotgun, and suggests adding weights to adjust the gun's movement to match Corey's shooting style.

  "[40:09] Zach: ... it's a little easier to move."

• Technical Adjustments: Discusses practical modifications such as adding lead tape to the fore-end or adjusting the stock length to achieve the desired gun behavior. Emphasizes maintaining consistency with previous equipment to aid in the transition.

  "[49:15] Rick: ... tape weight."

• Personal Experiences: Both hosts share their personal journeys and preferences, highlighting that the choice between unsingle and top single often comes down to individual comfort and shooting style.

Notable Quote:

"[50:15] Rick: ... balance is key."

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5. Managing Gun Speed with New Equipment

Listener: Debbie
Timestamp: [44:44 - 54:24]

Question:
Debbie has transitioned from an older BT shotgun with a Monte Carlo stock to an MX8 with a Parazzi and finds that the gun "whips" too quickly over targets. She is seeking advice on how to slow down her gun speed, considering factors like grip technique and ammunition.

Discussion Highlights:

• Zach's Solutions: Recommends adding weight to the front end of the shotgun to reduce whipping. Suggests practical methods like using lead tape or adjusting the grip technique to better control the gun's movement.

  "[46:23] Rick: ... add some weight to the barrel."

• Rick's Recommendations: Advises on checking the stock fit and balance of the new shotgun compared to the old one. Emphasizes the importance of ensuring that the shotgun's balance matches previous equipment to maintain shooting consistency.

  "[51:05] Zach: ... putting tape on the rib to protect fingers."

• Technical Adjustments: Discusses specific modifications such as lengthening the stock, altering the point of balance, and ensuring the shotgun's setup aligns with Debbie's shooting style.

  "[51:32] Rick: ... use tape or lead to adjust weight."

• Shooting Fundamentals: Highlights the need to revisit and possibly refine shooting techniques to accommodate the new equipment's behavior, ensuring that muscle memory aligns with current equipment dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"[49:15] Rick: ... tape weight."

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Conclusion

Episode 109 of Trap Talk offers a comprehensive exploration of key topics in competitive trapshooting, guided by real listener questions. From strategic event participation and understanding complex points systems to technical adjustments for specialized shooting techniques, hosts Zach and Ricky provide actionable advice grounded in extensive experience. Their collaborative approach ensures that listeners gain both theoretical knowledge and practical solutions to enhance their trapshooting endeavors.

Final Notable Quote:

"[34:46] Rick: ... shoot the best, right? So you know, you, you have to look at it different."

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Join the Conversation:
For more insights and detailed discussions on trapshooting, tune into future episodes of the Trap Talk podcast. Whether you're aiming to make an All American team or refining your shooting technique, Trap Talk is your go-to resource for all things trapshooting.

Transcript

[Ricky]

Welcome to season three of Trap Talk.

[Zach]

Brought to you by Craig off the Choice of Champions.

[John]

All right, everybody, it's John here with the Trap Talk podcast. And we are back. It is another listener extravaganza for you. Thank you to everybody for submitting your questions. And we promised you before the year was out we were going to get this done, and here we are. We're getting it done. So, guys, kicking it off. First of all, happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Good to see you guys.

[Zach]

Happy holidays.

[John]

Are you guys ready for some listener questions?

[Rick]

I love listener questions. I live for it. Basically, last night when I you told me you were going to do this, I had a hard time sleeping because I was so excited to hear crap.

[John]

It felt sincere. All right, we all know Zach seems like a baby.

[Zach]

For anybody that's never traveled with Zach, he's got no problem sleeping.

[Rick]

Yeah, I sleep like a baby.

[John]

Clear conscience.

[Rick]

Question number one. John, smoke us.

[Zach]

Okay.

[John]

Hey, we're coming in. Good question coming in from Alana Paulson. And the question is, for a first time grand attendee as a sub junior, is it best to go to the AIM grant or the normal grand? All right, so we've got first time visitor to the Grand American.

[Rick]

That's a good question.

[John]

Go to everything.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, you really. The grand American is the grand American. The AIM grand is just the aim in my opinion, because it's just kids. So sure. You're wanting to shoot the grand, then come to the grand. And I mean, it's a big event with the prelims and the main grand of shooting everything, 2600 targets. So I would say is, you know, come in. If you want to shoot it all, shoot it all. If not, you know, shoot a few days, go around, see everything, you know, soak it all in and shoot the whole, you know, main week is my opinion.

[John]

Maybe Alana's talking about first time to Sparta, right to the world shooting complex. Maybe that's, you know, where the question's coming from, too.

[Rick]

I. I would say it depends on what she wants to do as far as what the focal point is. If she's like, well, I want to compete in the grand, well, then that's one thing. But honestly, from going to the aim because me and Rick have gone to the AIM now with this podcast and spent the whole weekend there, there's so many kids there that if I was young and I wasn't like, trying to win, you know, a grand ring or anything like that, and I just wanted to soak in the experience, I feel like there's probably a better opportunity to meet more people your own age and enjoy your know, kind of that like minded involvement during the AIM grand because they have the really cool opening ceremony. They had Travis Mears out there. You know, they've got the pizza party, they've got some other stuff going on. So, you know, I think if you're like a die hard competitor and you're like, all I care about is winning, well, then, yeah, I want to go to the Grand. But if you're more like, well, I want the experience of a lot of people my own age and seeing, you know, that type of deal, I would say the AIM is probably better for younger people. And, and they did a lot of stores that do giveaways and stuff just during AIM week. Like, you know, the shirts and, you know, the hats and things like that. And they've got the, the, the Easter egg hunt that they do with their phones now where they scan the QR codes. John, we should have something like that.

[Zach]

What do you think?

[Rick]

Can we make that happen? Come on, producer.

[John]

Sure. Yeah, I'll work on it.

[Zach]

Another event for us to do. Good job.

[Rick]

Add it to the list and we'll double your pay.

[John]

I mean, we're gonna, we're gonna be out there. I will say last year, when we're getting the studio ready, as you guys know, like Tish and I were out there pretty early and when they did that scavenger hunt you've never seen, just more fun. Ha. By like that, like hundreds of kids just rolling around on golf carts, like trying to find stuff, asking random people, do you have a bag of peanuts?

[Rick]

Do you have.

[John]

Yeah, it was, it was pretty funny. So the AIM sounds like a great time with your age group. And then obviously the grand is its own thing. You're coming in to compete against obviously the top shooters in the country.

[Zach]

Yeah, there's two different shoots, in my opinion. So it's just what you're like, Zach said, your focal point. Are you wanting to compete against just the kids or are you wanting to compete against everybody in the actual Grand American? Because they're two separate shoots for All American points. The A Grand is separate also for All American points. Then you have the prelim week and the main week of the grand, which is two different shoots, but counts as one towards the All American points.

[John]

Right? Yeah. So decisions, decisions for Alana. But also, you know, maybe the first time you go to the aim, then you get to check out Sparta. Then the next year you guys plan and go to the Grand Americans. So thank you Guys, Alana, let us know how it goes. We'll be out there, so come by the studio and say hi to us and let us know how it's going.

[Ricky]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky both shoot him. We both love them.

[Zach]

Yeah. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better, folks. Get yourself a Craig Off. Your scores will increase.

[Ricky]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better, and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank Winig. I'm wearing the shirt today.

[Rick]

Love this shirt.

[Ricky]

If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[Zach]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds with my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[Rick]

Of course.

[Ricky]

Yeah, the Grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[Zach]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[Ricky]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[John]

Brian Hayes.

[Ricky]

How.

[John]

How do you make the jump from recreational shooting to competitive shooting when you don't have anyone to lean on in the sport?

[Zach]

Well, jump in. I mean, yeah, let's expand.

[John]

Let's expand on Brian's question here. I think what he's saying is, I'm a recreational shooter. I love the sport. I'm wanting to take it more seriously. Maybe. Rick, can you. Can you take us back and talk to us about what that transition was? Because at one point, Rick, Rick, you were a recreational shooter, right? I mean, I just shot.

[Zach]

Had fun. I shot high school, junior or junior high, which was through the high school team, and I went out and shot an ATA shoot, and I was like, oh, okay. And. And so that's what I would recommend is go to your local gun club, you know where you're at, Brian, and. Or if you got to travel a little bit, you know, find out where the next registered shoot is and just show up and. And shoot and just don't have any expectations. Just show up, introduce yourself to people, because everybody at the gun club will take you in and you explain, hey, you know, it's my first time doing this. And then they'll really take you in, and then they get the clause into you, and then you got to take out loans, and you got to get a good job, you know?

[John]

Yeah. Then all of a sudden, you're on the board of directors. Yeah. Yeah. It's the whole thing. Brian, you're the producer.

[Rick]

Exactly what Rick's saying. I think at the end of the day, you know, the best way to do it is to say, first of all, plan it. Like, figure out what shoot you want to go to, whether it's local or regional. Plan it out. Okay. And I would say, if you're really jumping into it small, starting find a shoot within a few hours. Your house. Yep. Look for an ATA weekend shoot when you want to go plan it, and maybe even see if you've got a buddy that's new with you that hasn't done it, and go do it together. When I started shooting the first time, there was, like, three people that started shooting within a month of when I started shooting, and ata, and we all kind of came up together. But if you go and you, you know, first time, like, Rick says, hey, it's my first time here. What do I do? Where do I go? Everybody's going to welcome you in. You're going to meet a bunch of friends, but you're not going to make those friends if you don't go. So if you're like, well, I don't want to go and sit in my car all day and be alone. Well, at the end of the day, you got to go, and you got to put yourself out there, and then you got to let people know, hey, this is my first time. And, you know, I wish everyone was really awesome and great, which most people are, but some people aren't. So you also got to take, you know, just because you show up and you're like, nice, and you introduce yourself, not everybody's gonna be like, oh, well, welcome. And, you know, a great experience. Like, there's some people that are a little grouchy. So at the end of the day, you just got to remember that, yeah, you might run into me. And if you run into me, it's gonna be a bad day. Okay. I'm not myself.

[John]

Okay, hold on a sec. If you run into. If you run into Zach, the Labrador retriever of trap shooting, you'll be fine. Okay. I think what Zach's trying to say is, yeah, they're not all Labradors. Okay, that's fine.

[Rick]

But there's a couple out there. There's things.

[John]

Okay, all right, all right. Whatever dog you choose. Zach's a nice dog, But I will say this to. To your guys's point, you know, when you first show up at that ATA shoot, you probably heard about it from your buddies. You didn't. You know, maybe you've got a small group and you're going, maybe you're a league shooter and you want to try out at ATA Shoots. Totally normal for the most part, 99 point of the time, we want you there.

[Zach]

We. We're.

[John]

We're happy to help. We're.

[Rick]

Everybody wants new people at the shoot. That's why we're doing this. Everybody wants more people to shoot, right? I think we got to figure out how to make it a little bit better. But at the end of the day, you know, we want to see large shoots. You don't want to go to a shoot where there's three squads. I mean, that's not any fun.

[Ricky]

All right, folks, we got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ata White Flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[Zach]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there. All the reps, you know, Bill Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow, everything they do for the sport and all the shoots, really appreciate it.

[Ricky]

They're always there, they're always trying to make a better target, and they're always supporting the game that we love so much. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

Here's the thing, too, is you want to make sure, you know, Brian, you. If just pick a shoot, go to it and enjoy yourself, you know, and maybe don't be standoffish, you know, just, you know, try to jump in with both feet and. And be, hey, you know what? What's your guys's rules here? Is there something I'm missing? What do I need to know? You know, the little things, you know, I would recommend reading the ATA rulebook. It's a good thing, you know, go through the stuff so you kind of know and have a little bit of insight of what is, you know, good and what's bad. You know, what you can do, what you can't do and such, you know, what ammo to use. I've seen this a lot at local shoots where I've shown up. Just a practice or something, and someone's out there, and I'm like, man, that shows kind of loud and. And, you know, I've went up and one of the directors is like, does that sound odd to you? And I'm like, yeah, well, guys out there shooting, hunting loads, just a game load, which he went, what he did, went to the local Walmart, bought ammo. He said, hey, I'm going to shoot trap. And they said, oh, oh yeah, these will work. He didn't know he took them, went out, they were three and a quarter dram of sixes, ounce and a quarter. Yeah.

[Rick]

And he was, they were right though, it would work.

[John]

Yeah, it worked. He was smoking everything.

[Zach]

He said, man, my shoulder hurt after the first 10. I didn't think these were right. But he goes, that's what they told me. So just, you know, make sure you're, you're on the right trail and, and if you have any questions, ask the, the, you know, manager. The shoot.

[John]

The shoot manager. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Ask any of those people and they will gladly help you along.

[John]

Yeah, that is completely normal too. At every shoot that the NSTA puts on, there's always a couple of new shooters coming in and your questions are completely fine. No dumb questions. It's gonna feel a little like first day at school, right, where you're just kind of, you don't get. But then very quickly it becomes something that you understand what's happening, you understand the flow, you understand, know, you looked at the program. Okay, we're going to shoot, you know, singles, handicap doubles today. You don't have to shoot all the events. You can just shoot the events that you want to shoot. All that type of stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

And you know what? Tonight.

[John]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I would recommend one thing is ask, you know, who, who's the better shooters and watch them shoot. Introduce yourself. I mean that's how I, you know, that's how I met a lot of the top shooters. As a brand new shooter at the Grand American, I introduced my, and, and then I'd sit there and watch and I just watch them shoot just to kind of see what they did and stuff. And, and that's how you learn, you know. And if people don't like you watching them shoot, I mean, I always recommend it. Just don't bother.

[John]

The good shooters don't mind, Rick. The good shooters don't like, don't stand.

[Rick]

On the 28 yard line. But, but Ricky, Ricky said I could watch. Shut up.

[Zach]

Hey.

[John]

Well guys, these days, these days you don't have to.

[Rick]

Being reasonable and not talking loud, watching. Yes. But don't, you know, don't be that guy that hovers and like behind the tree and you know, make it weird, you know.

[John]

Yeah.

[Rick]

Yeah. I don't want to think I'm getting served a warren or something.

[John]

Cool.

[Rick]

You know?

[John]

Yeah. These days, guys, you don't really have to ask. Just open up the SOS Clays app. You can see who's at the top of the leaderboard. I mean, right there.

[Rick]

Your plugs are on point today, John.

[Zach]

I just.

[John]

I'm telling you. Shameless plug. SOS Clay.

[Rick]

Gotta.

[John]

Gotta love him. Yeah. Hey, Brian, thank you for the question. I know a lot of people have that question. So we appreciate you sending it in. And you know what? Just put yourself out there. Before you know it, you'll have a whole group of friends around you that shoot and travel, and it really is what it's all about. So good luck with that. We hope to see you at the next shoot. Obviously, if you end up at the Grand American, come see us or some of the other big shoots. Yeah. Around the country. So, again, thank you to Brian Hayes.

[Zach]

Not to talk to people like Zach.

[John]

Talk to people like Zach. Don't listen to Rick. Talk to people like Zach. Actually, he'll talk to you first. You don't have to.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line. Ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[Zach]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[Ricky]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved, they're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[Zach]

Yeah. His dad was past president, 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support and really appreciate it here at Trap.

[Ricky]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[John]

This next question comes in from Michael Stake. Michael says, I hear everyone talking about points to make a team. I'm wondering how you achieve the points. And how many points does it take for you to be able to make the team. Love the show and thanks for sharing your knowledge. I think Michael's talking about when we all, we throw around all American points or hey, you know, you go to this shoot, it was a fact comp factor of this. I got points. So maybe what we'll do for Michael, guys, is maybe we'll just take it back and let's just talk about what is this point system in. In all American. We got a couple all Americans here on the show today with you. So you've come to the right place, Michael.

[Zach]

Well, I've been on the team now, what, 34 times. And it started off as it went by your wins. They weren't really points starting off. It was kind of, you know, they picked the team by, oh, you won this much. You had these many ties. Okay. Oh, you're the. But then it also, I know my first year in 1988, it went off how you placed at the Grand American. So like I was, I finished second place in sub Junior in the overall at the Grand American. I was second place on the all American team. Well, now it's evolved into a point system to where it's based on the attendance factor. So the number of attendees get you a comp factor. And then your prelim days you get five points for champion, four points for second and three points for third. And then the championship events you get 10 points for champion, seven and then five. And that's singles handicap, doubles all around overall. So of course it's always better to go to the higher attended, higher comp factor shoots to get the most points or you go to the satellite grands that throw the most targets, including, you know, the heartland grand's the best way for points. That's Zach's favorite shoot because he could shoot as many. He could shoot Monday on and get three events a day. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then Saturday is two events, Sunday's two events. So it is the biggest point shoot by any shoot out there, you know, close to the grand. But what if you want to make the team? It depends on what team are you talking. Are you a category shooter? Does it say John, is he a category shooter?

[John]

No, Michael didn't put in there if he shoots a category, if he's open.

[Zach]

So as far as how many points does it take to make the team? That can vary year to year?

[Rick]

Yes.

[Zach]

Last year, Zach, I don't remember what bottom was on the second team.

[Rick]

I don't know. Why don't you look it up and I'll kind of expand a little. I think, I think obviously Everything Rick said was correct. He's been on the team more years than I've been alive and I've been live 33 years. He's been on 34 years. If you want to make the team, I think it's really important to figure out what part of the team you want to make. Right. If you're, if you're trying to make it on the top tier first team in any category, you're going to obviously need to go to the really big shoots with big compactors and that comp factor. You know what Rick was saying, you know, if we get a five, a five of comp factor, well, then you win singles champion on Saturday, it's worth 10 points. You take the 10 points time the five, and that's a 50 point deal right there. 10 times five. So. So when you're looking at it, if you're trying to make high on the team, you have to go to the really, really big, big shoots that have higher, higher competition factors. I think if you're someone that's not trying to make really high on the team and you're just trying to make the second team, you might be better off doing the state shoot route. You know, maybe go to out of state places. Go to places where you feel like you could compete. Maybe you going to threes and, and, and fours or smaller shoots might be a good strategy for you, depending on what category you're in. You know, obviously when we talk about first, second and third, we're talking about first, second and third score. Okay?

[John]

Right.

[Rick]

So you don't have to necessarily win a trophy. You can go. And if you shoot a 95 and there's only a 96 and a 97 above you, you're guaranteed to get points that day.

[Ricky]

We got another sponsor we got to thank.

[Rick]

Shotguns West.

[Ricky]

The Pelas, baby. Check out these wing. Ricky don't got these. He ain't that stylish.

[Zach]

Folks, listen, Zach tries to wear these driving down the road doing podcasts. It's okay.

[Ricky]

We still love it when you look good. You don't have to apologize. Remember that not only can you hit more targets, but you could look good doing it. Give Ryan a call.

[Zach]

That's right.

[Ricky]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Rick]

So, you know, there might be some clubs. An example, Hawaii, right? Who's going to Hawaii? I mean, I know they're only a two comp factor, but at the end of the day, you know, if you think you could shoot top three scores in Hawaii and the top scores are 92 every day. Well, you know, there's, there's, there it is. Right now, I think you, you have to study what you want to get to and figure out what your budget is and figure out how many shoots you can go to. But the most important thing to remind yourself is that you can only use seven shoots. So no matter what, if you go to 10 shoots, 15 shoots, 20 shoots, you can only use seven shoots. So if budget is a concern and you want to get the most bang for your buck, plan seven shoots. If you can't get quite get to seven shoots, then you need to plan to go to, you know, four shoots or five shoots. There's not a lot of people that are going to make the team unless they're in a category with less than four shoots. Now, you know, there's been some scenarios where category shooters, you know, you could have a stellar grand or, you know, really good shots and they make a lot of points on, you know, two or three or four shoots. But, but at the end of the day, you're going to need to hit target requirements and you're going to need to basically get enough points to make it. And every team's different. Every.

[Zach]

So elaborate on the target requirements that varies by what team. But you also have to shoot in three states to make the team. So you just can't shoot. You know, like if you lived in Illinois, you just can shoot the Illinois state shoot and the grand and make the team. No travel. So. But the lowest on the all American men's team second team was 976 last year and then 980 and then it was over a thousand. So you really, if you want to give a shot to make the team the grand and to shoot both weeks is probably the most important of it.

[Rick]

But also the hardest because you have to shoot the best, right? So you know, you, you have to look at it different. Rick, Rick thinks only like a true champion. So Rick thinks like a guy that's going to be a captain because he's a captain, he's been a captain. That's how he thinks. But if you're looking at this from a number standpoint, if you take a thousand, you divide it by seven, you only need 142 points a shoot. So if you look at that now.

[Zach]

Hold on, that's bottom. So that can vary too by people how everybody shoots.

[Rick]

Correct. But, but maybe, maybe someone's route to this, to the first time all American bottom of the second team might be going to the golden west grand. It might be going to the.

[Zach]

You know, so pick another shoot.

[Rick]

What'd you say?

[Zach]

Golden west grand. You're only getting the. The last three days, so you're not gonna. You're not gonna get the hundred. The attendance factor there is not. That's a two.

[Rick]

Now. Now, I. I want to spend a second on this, Rick, Because I was unaware, I thought that the rule with the ATA said once they hit that.

[Zach]

Other brand, the gold west grand's not a satellite grand.

[Rick]

No, but I'm talking about other shoots to hit the factor. Don't they get the 1300 target back just like state shoots? Because last year, the golden west grand, every event counted Wednesday on it shouldn't.

[Zach]

I don't. I wouldn't think. Because it's not a.

[Rick]

Well, I think the rule. We could. We could go offline and check this. But I think the current rule is that if. If you hit it on the championship events now, the way it's written, they give points back to Wednesday on 1300 targets. That's what I think it is.

[Zach]

Change that.

[Rick]

And. And that was a recent change.

[Zach]

If you're trying to make the team, go to the shoots like Zach said, see what your budget is, because it's not a cheap sport, and it's definitely not cheap to make the all american team. And especially, like Zach pays for Zach, I pay for me and my son. So, you know, then we got Justin. He's got him w. There. Correct. I'm gonna try to talk Amber into shooting. I mean, might as well if he's gonna spend money.

[Rick]

I don't think. I don't think you're gonna scare him away.

[Zach]

No, but that's not gonna break them.

[Rick]

With a couple more shooters.

[Zach]

Depending on where you're from, the. The local state shoots. I absolutely recommend. Go to your state shoots. Okay? Shoot your state shoots. If you can make it to a satellite grand, great. If you can't, that. That's fine, too. But coming to the grand, it gives you the biggest opportunity. Because the way the point system works now, and this is solely my opinion only, this is not based on wins anymore, folks. This is based on if you can break a score, okay? You can break a score. You get points. So you like 100 straight, a 99 or a 98. And all three events, you're getting points no matter what. Now, how the point system used to be before they did it now, is you got points off trophy wins.

[Rick]

Correct.

[Zach]

So there was no guarantee. Now, you did get guaranteed tie points, which was a lot less. It was like one times a factor or Three times a factor where now if I go out and break a hundred straight in a class event at a satellite grand estate, shoot the grand American, and there's no champion trophy, so we'll just. We'll just do the grand because the grand does not have a class. Singles are a class doubles champion. It's the class singles triple A, double A, B, C and D. Okay, so if I go out in the class singles at the Grand American Monday singles during the main week and break a 200, I'm guaranteed 12 points times the factor of 10, I get 120 points right there. Boom. I do the same thing in the doubles. I break 100 straight, I get 120 points. Now if I break a 99, I get 90 points. Yeah, that's 1297. I break a 98, I get 70. So it. All you got to do is break a score. So really, in my opinion, only they've made it a lot easier to get on the team because now you don't have to go stand out there and shoot off and shoot 500 straight to get a trophy. You broke the score. I got the points.

[Rick]

Yeah. And I'll agree. I'll agree with Rick on that factor for sure. The only thing that I would caveat to that, when you say, okay, it's easier to make the team. I have the trap and fields when we were on the. The trophy point system, and the points that it took to make the team were a lot lower. Because when you take that out, I mean, you weren't getting. You weren't getting what you were getting. You were getting, you know, people were making the team with 600 points. I mean, I remember making the junior team with like 690 points on seven shoots. Right? So. So at the end of the day, you could say, you know, harder, easier. Well, now it's taking, you know, 3700 points to captain. So, you know, at the end of the day, whether you did it that way or this way, I don't think you're not picking the best shooters because obviously we're seeing, you know, we're seeing the top of the top of the top compete at that level. I just think the numbers all changed it. You know, what it took to make the team then is way different than what it takes to make the team now.

[Zach]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not, I'm not saying that it's the shooter chain. I'm just saying it's easier to get points now.

[Rick]

100%. Way easier to get points. Yeah, but the number for points that you need is two or three times higher. And even when they came out with this the first year, they did this change because I think it was, I don't know, was it 2019 or 2020? Rick, do you remember?

[Zach]

It would have been the first or second year, the Dixie grand in North Carolina.

[Rick]

So what I can remember, because I do study this because I try to make the men's team every year. And what I've noticed is every year since they started this program, the bottom of the second team has gone up by about 100 points. So it's, it's going up consistently and I think it's going to take more points to make the slots next year than it took this year.

[Ricky]

Hey, Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay Chute Management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[Zach]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean they've got majority of the satellite grands, majority of the state channel shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You could see your squad if they paid, you know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal. They're just.

[Ricky]

Ricky, how much money he made before he even got off the line, he.

[Rick]

Was like, hey, I'm buying lunch.

[Ricky]

I'm like, yeah, good job.

[Rick]

We're good to go.

[Ricky]

We also got gun and trust trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I know they're, they're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[John]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Cole and Larry Cushman, been long time supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance. In literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great, they're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife, animals and that such, and your guns.

[Ricky]

It's just a great, it's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got Those Craig offs, you got to keep them insured. So. Oh, with that being said, let's get.

[Zach]

Back to the show.

[Rick]

Well.

[Zach]

So 2012, I just looked up 2012, 531 points. Was bottom on the second team.

[Rick]

There you go.

[Zach]

Bottom on the first team was 1066.

[Rick]

There you go. See what I'm saying?

[Zach]

On the second team this year was 976, 980, and then 1040. So that's what I'm saying. It's a lot easier to obtain points now because. And like I said, folks, this is my opinion only. Not Zach's, not John's, no one else's, but mine. It has made it to where the mental state of shooting has changed, because now you're not going out there worrying about, okay, man, I got to break this 100 straight. You know, if you're chasing points, you know, I got to break this 100 straight and then I get in the shoot off and I got to win to be able to get these points. Now it's like, man, let's break this 100 straight. I got points. Yeah, it's a totally different mindset.

[Rick]

Totally different mindset.

[Zach]

And, you know, that's why. And Zach and I have talked about it when, like, he shoots the heartland. He shoots every. Last year I shot, the last two years, I guess I've shot almost everything. I think last year I didn't shoot Monday or Tuesday.

[Rick]

Monday I shot Tuesday.

[Zach]

Yeah, I shot Tuesday.

[Rick]

You shot almost everything. You missed one day.

[Zach]

Yeah. And so. But people were like, well, why? And Zach's like, well, why not? All you gotta do is go out there and break a score and you get the points. So it's an easy finish.

[Rick]

So if people. If people want to talk about numbers and they want to talk about how to do it, I look at the game that way because it's just like math. It's just like money. It's just like anything else. Like you say, well, why do you. Well, why wouldn't you. Why wouldn't you look at the rule book and why wouldn't you look at where you have the opportunity to get what you're going to get and give yourself the best opportunity to win. You got to play the game the way the game is written. And so at the end of the day, you've got to figure out where you want to be and how you want to do it and do it that way. If you want to be a captain, I'll tell you where to go if you want to be bottom of the second team. And you want.

[Zach]

Yep. I'll tell you where to go.

[Rick]

Yeah, but. Yeah, the biggest shoots, the biggest ones.

[Zach]

Every, every one, you, you hit the biggest. Illinois or Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Iowa.

[Rick]

The heartland.

[Zach]

You hit the heartland grand, you hit the spring grand, you hit the southern grand, you hit the autumn grand and the grand American.

[Rick]

That's it. That's a, That's a good run, you know, that's a good run. Now, now, if, if, if I've got somebody that's trying to make, you know, you know, their first time on the sub vet second team, they don't need all that heat and that smoke, you know, if they, if, if that's not what they want, they might be better off driving to the local state shoots within five hours of where they live and hitting those up and getting a little less points might be cheaper, might be easier, might have less competition. And the other thing you have to remember is with state shoots, it's in state and out of state. So if you're the only out of state guy at a shoot, you've got the points. If you're the only in state guy to shoot, you've got the point.

[Zach]

Rich Bullard goes to California.

[Rick]

Well, yeah, I mean, there, there's some shoots there where, depending on the category you are in, there might not be three competitors that go in your category in state. Out of state where a satellite grand. It doesn't matter what state you're from. Everybody's in the pool. If there's 10, you know, there's 10 lady ones, well, then there's 10 lady ones. Well, you know, in Utah is break the score.

[Ricky]

Correct, Correct.

[Rick]

Correct.

[Zach]

Correct.

[John]

And there's still, there's still a. This was, I mean, guys, this is a really good take on it. And I think a lot of the listeners, they need this depth, right, because they're interested in all American points. They, they see the teams getting posted up every year. Then the structure here is important. Right to Zach's point. The ATA has set out the rules of the game. You need to strategically play the rules of the game. It's not a good or bad thing. If they change the rules tomorrow, then Rick and Zach might change their strategy because being on the all American team is a, is a monumental thing every year that they want to achieve. But you have to play the game.

[Rick]

As said, they put trophies back into the game. Me and Rick are shooting off every night. I mean, we're going out to shoot, right? If that's the game, then that's the game.

[Zach]

You talking about.

[Rick]

You'd love It.

[Zach]

I just don't. If, hey, if this were runner up and the boys are there, I'm not going to waste the shells anymore.

[Rick]

Well, now, but that's not years ago.

[Zach]

Like, I shoot. I remember several times Harlan Campbell and myself shooting off for doubles. Runner up, doubles. AAA and going 200 in the shoot off and losing and. And having a good time. It was a shoot up. You know, you're out there grinding. Why? To get ready for the Grand American for the shoot off. I mean, it's just.

[Rick]

And I honestly do think there's something lost to that. And there was a couple shoots where I decided, even though there wasn't any points involved, to shoot off just because I wanted to get myself back into the mindset. And I think there's a lot of people that aren't shooting off a lot. And there's a lot of people that shoot off every freaking time, no matter what, because they want to get prepared for that. And so, you know.

[Zach]

Herby's always shooting off for me.

[Rick]

It's hard. It's hard to go into a shoot off for me after 300 target days. If it's something that doesn't excite me now, if it's something that I'm excited about, I'm all for it. Like, hey, you know, this is a new trophy. This is something I haven't won. This is a title or whatever. Yeah. But if it's something that you've got or you've done before, sometimes it loses a little bit of its allure. And you're like, do I really want to go do this versus go, you know, have dinner with my buddies?

[Zach]

Here's the thing is, when it's a champion shoot off, I'm shooting off. I'm not forfeiting, I'm not flipping a coin unless we come to an agreement. It's like Sunday or, you know, whatever, you know, but. And I know in the past, like myself, you know, when Big L was still around, we'd tie and say the all around and overall, we just go, okay, let's just flip and the loser gets the all around and the winner gets the overall type of deal. So, yeah, be fair, be fair, you know, type of deal. But, yeah, so, you know, back to the question of the all American team, you know, just what do you want to do if you're wanting to make it, you know, set out some guidelines, and if you got questions on that, like specific shoots, send them in. Reach out to Zachariah, John, you know, we can definitely help you out and tell you you know, hey, I can. And we talked about doing this an episode of, you know, each shoot, break it down, here's these hotels, here's this, you know, the RV spots, you know, people to contact.

[Rick]

Such problem is then we'll have nowhere to stay because everything's getting booked up.

[John]

Yeah, listen, no gatekeeping here. On the Trap Talk podcast we tell everything. But the all American game is, yes, there's definitely strategy to it, there's layers to it. You can start small like Zach was saying, right. You do the kind of the state shoots in your area, which are great because you're only competing against maybe the out of state. If you're coming into one of those state shoots. And those state shoots are a lot of fun because you'll meet a lot of other shooters who are going around to the other shoots also. So. And you know, if you're making that swing through the west to go to the satellite grands in Tucson, obviously you're going to come to the Nevada State shoot in October.

[Rick]

Why wouldn't you?

[John]

The 77th is coming up. All right, Michael, thank you for the great question, guys. Thank you for the great answers. I know there's a lot of depth around the all American points and obviously the fans are interested in that.

[Ricky]

Also we've got Mid state precious metals, Ron Prescott, he's a great guy for all your gold and silver needs. Ricky, tell them about our friend.

[Zach]

Yeah, Ron, he graciously donated a 10 ounce silver bar to our live in person podcast in Tucson. And you know, he has everything. I bought a bunch of silver from him. You know, we got our silver and gold for the the fun day at the Nevada State shoot on Monday this year. You know, John got all the silver and gold for the Nevada State shoot. So look him up for your silver and gold needs. He'll give you the best price out there.

[Rick]

He really is.

[Ricky]

And, and he's a friend of the trap shooters. I mean he's looking to get gold and silver to these gun clubs for the shoots at the lowest price across the country. He's doing him a service and helping grow the sport. So, you know, thank you so much for that, Ron.

[Zach]

Yeah, thank you Ron. We appreciate it.

[Ricky]

With that being said, let's get to the show.

[John]

Next question's coming in from Corey Roulette and Corey says, I recently switched to being a one eyed shooter. Currently I shoot an unsingle and was wondering if you had any tips for shooting with one eye and if an unsingle is the right gun for me or, or should I Look for a SBT or a top single. Love the podcast. I look forward to Friday mornings so I can watch the show. See, there you go. Corey loves Friday morning. Zach.

[Rick]

Perfect.

[John]

Because of the Trap Talk podcast. All right, all right, Corey, Corey is switching over. He's. He's now going one eye and he's shooting an un single. What are you guys thinking about that choice as far as from a one eyed shooter standpoint?

[Zach]

I mean it's, if it works, if the shoe fits, wear it. You know, shooting, going to one eye. So there's a reason he was shooting two eyes and now he's going to one eye.

[John]

Sounds like it maybe.

[Zach]

Yeah. Dominant shooting right handed, right eye. Dominant shooting left handed. You know, so we need a little more info on that. But I would just say as far as shooting an unsingle, you get more visibility with an unsingle but versus the top single but shooting one eye. Here's what I would tell him is show up to a shoot that there's some gun dealers that you could try some used guns, demo guns, whatever it might be, and, and try a top single and see what look is best for him. You know, visibility, seeing the target, acquiring it easier. I'm going to say the unsingles easier, but I'm biased to that. I've been shooting an unsingle since 1989, so. But I would say that that's what might be my number one recommendation is go to a shoot or reach out if he's got some friends that have some top singles, try that.

[Rick]

Yeah, I think, you know, I would love some more insight on why he went from two eyes to one eye because I think we might be able to even fix that before he goes down that road, depending on what it is. I mean, if you were already shooting two eyes, I would say, you know, unless there's something where you can't fix that, I would always recommend a shooter shoot two eyes if they can. Now if we're past that point and we can't get it done and we're down to one eye, it comes down to preference. At the end of the day, it's a preference question. I've heard from a lot of one eyed shooters that they like having the top single because of reference point. So you know, to break that down, you really have to look at the target hard. And if you've only got one eye right, you know, you're really looking past the gun. With a top single, there's some reference there of that barrel and they can utilize that in the background. While still looking at the target very, very hard. I've heard from some one eyed shooters with the unsingle before that yes, you have more visibility, which is nice, but they feel like they're a little bit more lost out there because they're really looking at the target and they, they don't see anything come into the picture. Right. And, and so they, you know, they start to aim more off the tip of the gun looking at the beads because they don't know where things are and they don't trust it. Now if you can trust, if you can trust it either way, I don't think it matters. But you know, at the end of the day you're going to have to figure out what your brain likes. If your brain can trust the unsingle and there's no barrel being there and really look at the target without looking back at the beads, then an unsingle is going to work. If you can only do that with a top single because you want to feel that you're getting close with the barrel, well, then a top signal is going to work. But at the end of the day, give it a try and go from there.

[John]

Yeah, yeah. I'll just say as a one eyed shooter, I shoot an unsingle and I like the extra visibility of being able to see more. Now I'm down to a dot, which means I get a lot of peripheral vision too. I'm really just kind of blocking that left eye dominance from catching the bead, if you will. But, but yeah, I think you gotta try it, right Rick? I mean, that's the only thing you've gotta really spend a little bit of time. I've been definitely thinking about it myself, like just trying it, but the unsingles definitely worked for that time period. So Corey, keep us in the loop. Tell us why we made that switch maybe from two eyes to one eye. Tell us, you know, how much are you covering? Are we closing the eye? Are we a dot? Like kind of. Where are we at there? Send us some more information. We'd love to keep talking to you about it. And if you're in, you know, one of the big shoots that we're going to be at this year, please come by, you know, hang out. We can definitely talk about it then too. So. All right, Corey, good question.

[Rick]

All right, folks, we got to take.

[Ricky]

A quick second and give a shout out to the Cardinal center in Marengo, Ohio. They hold the Cardinal Classic and they also hold the Ohio State shoot, which is home of the first back fence shootout. Ricky, what do you think about Ohio.

[Zach]

Listen, I love the Cardinals Center. I actually broke the first 100 from the 27 there at their very first shoot ever. Great place. Jake Spangler and their whole clan there. They do an awesome job at running the shoots. The Ohio State shoots, ran by the Ohio State Association. The Cardinal classics right after the grand. So if you're looking for some. Some more points right after the grand, hit that up so you can get a little more points than old Zach here. But listen, it's a great shoot, great facility building.

[Rick]

It really is.

[Ricky]

I. I personally love the RVs. They've got great camping there. They've got a great time. Good shoot, good target presentation. Go check it out. It's worth putting on your list. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[John]

All right, we're moving on, guys. Next one's coming in from Debbie, and Debbie says hi, enjoying the show, and have learned a ton from you two and all of your great guests that you've had on so far. We need to have Nora on the episode. Not for lack of trying. We're trying everybody, guys. We're asking everybody, sometimes just scheduling. My question is, though, how do I slow down my gun speed? I went from an older BT and with a Monte Carlo stock to an MX8. And I'll tell you that my P gun, my Parazzi, whips right over the targets. If I start getting too mindful, I start aiming and be checking would excuse me, should I hold a higher point? Will that help? Am I trying everything but ammo? And it's getting expensive. And some direction from you guys would help, I think. Thanks, Debbie. Well, Debbie, those P guns are pretty quick, I can tell you that.

[Zach]

Well, the one thing. The older Browning versus a Parazi. The older Browning, the barrel is probably heavier than the Prozzi barrel. Correct? So if she is whipping the gun over the target. Debbie, if you're whipping the gun, I would say your arm shooting with your front arm, and that's a no no in trap shooting. So I would say is you can do one or two things I'm not a big fan of. I mean, if you're holding on the house, just hold on the house. And you just gotta. You gotta move with your back hand and go up through that target. You could always add a little weight on the front end of your fore end.

[Rick]

You know, that's what I do. I mean, if you're. If you're not trying to go back and change everything, like you're, like, not wanting to, you know, take the clinic and Learn how to shoot trap. And you're just like, I want to go back to shooting how I shot with the bt. The quickest way is going to be to add some, some, some weight to that barrel. Now from there now you're going to be like, okay, now this feels the same at some level. And then you might want to start working on the finer intricacies of trap shooting, right? Work on the fundamentals of, hey, you know, maybe I am shooting with my arms or maybe I'm not rotating with my body or maybe I need to take some instruction or, you know, go from there at some point. But, you know, if, if one car moves faster than the other car, well, then we put a little weight on this one and slow it down and, you know, you'll be good to go.

[John]

So she fighting against like muscle memory here. Is that what's happening? Like she has all this built up muscle memory from the heavier barrel.

[Zach]

She could a little bit, but is what she's doing, in my opinion is she's, she's charging that gun weight a little more. So she's. It took a little bit more to move it where the prozz is a little lighter on the front end and it's a lot easier to move. But a lighter gun moves faster but stops quicker.

[Rick]

Stop slower.

[Zach]

A heavier gun moves slower but continuously moves. Okay, Correct. So like I said, the, the lighter barrel, it moves fast and it stops faster.

[Rick]

It's the same with hand shooting. If you're shooting with your hands, your hands move faster than your whole body, but they stop quicker. So if you use your hand to make a hand shot on the left side and you turn that hand, you're going to get that barrel on that target quickly. But as soon as you get where you want it to be, your eyes are going to say, oh, and lock up those hands and shoot. If I'm turning and pivoting with my shoulders and my waist and my whole body and, and I'm driving through and I'm putting the whole force of my body behind that gun, that gun's going to push through and carry through the target in the direction that I'm turning my body, the same way we do when we rotate. So it's, it's, there's a right way to do it, obviously, and then there's a way people do it all the time and get away with it at some level.

[Ricky]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank one of our show sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch Jonesburg, Missouri Rick and Columbia Carla Burke Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[Zach]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I can do some hunting with you guys and come to your. The annual clay shoot in August right after the grand.

[Ricky]

It's a lot of fun. It's the Optimist club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot. They put it on, and it's wonderful. I think last year, they had over 100. 100 entries into it, and it's just a good time. With that being said, let's get back.

[Zach]

To the show, do some gun lifts. You know, move around, but not whip. And that's the thing that back hand needs to move. If you're pushing with the front or punching with that front hand, that's probably why you're. You're.

[Rick]

I would. I would also take a look at the stock fit and say, you know, if. If. If one's a lot shorter or longer than the other, that could make a big difference in the way the gun moves. I've had a lot of times where I've switched from one gun to the other, and. And then I noticed that the gun was an inch shorter on the stock, and I'm like, man, this thing's whippy. Well, it's because it was so much shorter, and I didn't have control of it. So I lengthened it to the same length, and once I had the length the same, they started moving very similarly. So, you know, there's just. There's. There's other things that you can consider.

[Zach]

You want to look at the length of pole needs to be correct. Just because you're Browning, you know, was. Say it's longer, that might not mean it's correct. So you want to make sure and get with somebody. And she mentioned Nora, so I'm assuming she's taking a class from Nora. So if she has, you know, find out it was the. The link to pull correct, and if it is, then make sure the Parazi is that same or close to correct.

[Rick]

Yeah, so. So if the Browning was. If everything was perfect at the Browning, and now we got something that's different one way or the other. Those are the things you need to check, folks. Check the stock length, compare it to what you had, Check the weight of the gun to compare it to what you had. A lot of the times, what I'll do with a gun, too, is I'll take it on the hinge pin and just see where the point of balance is. I mean, some Guns are back heavy. Some guns are front heavy. So you know, you're Browning. You might put it on the hinge pin. It might be front heavy, where it's fallen over on the hinge pin forward, right where it is in the center of your hands. And if you want to duplicate that, well, then you've got to start hanging weight on the front of that Parazi and until it falls at the same speed at that center point that the Browning does. Right. Not saying that that's what you're going to want to do, but, but at the end of the day, you, if you want things to feel the same, you have to make them the same.

[Zach]

And I would recommend getting some tape weight. You could put it inside the fore end. You can actually put it on the bottom of the barrel right in front of the, the fore end. That instead of hanging a weight there, you know, just.

[Rick]

Yeah, I never liked, I never liked the hang weights. I, I mean, I, I've seen some guys do some really cool barrel weights in between the barrels and they'll even run screws and stuff through it. Or that tape, like you said, that.

[Ricky]

Lead tape works really, really good.

[Rick]

I've seen people hollow out that forearm a little bit and put lead inside that. I mean, there's a lot of tricks that you can do to get it done depending on the model of gun you're shooting and depending on, you know, how the barrel configuration is. But I mean, rick, on your K80, that little tape out in front on the unsingle, is that just tape or is that a weight?

[Zach]

That's tape because that's where I put my finger in. The bottom of the rib is super sharp. So I put white tape sports tape on there. Well, the white sticks out. So then I take around it.

[Rick]

I never, I never asked because I know it's where your finger goes, but I didn't know if maybe you had some weight there too because it kind of looked big.

[Zach]

But no, I don't have anything. The only thing that's non stock on my gun is the winning stock and foreign. Because in my opinion the Cragoff's the best balanced gun out there. It's everything, the weights between your hands.

[John]

So, yeah, I think we've been, we've been kind of bearing the lead here for Debbie. I guess the real solution is obviously a K80 trap special. Craig off is the choice of champions. We all know it. You know it. But I will say this is. These guys were saying go back to basics. If the gun is faster like the Perazzi I can say this. If I move my parazi on the call, it's chaos. You have to let that bird come first because if you were, if, you know, with a slower gun, you may have gotten away with a little bit, but the parazzi is ready to be there immediately. Let that bird come and then go. So see it then go. I think with the parazi is really important. Yeah. Because it is very fast. But obviously all else fails, call Rick the K80 in your future obviously can solve all problems with trap shooting. So as a guy who's looking to join team K. All right. Okay, guys, thank you for that, Debbie. Really appreciate you sending in that question. Yeah. Great question for everybody. Yes. And yeah, tell Nora we want her. Tell her, you know, anytime. We'll make it work. And we hope to see you at one of the next shoots out there. Come up and say hi for sure.

[Zach]

All right, folks, we need to take a quick sec it and get to a new show sponsor, Big Red Motorsports. Big Red, they're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[Ricky]

Now, I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by side. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the autumn grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters. They love trap shooting and they're doing a great job.

[Zach]

Listen, they got can Am, Kawasaki cf, Moto Triton trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys. With that being said, let's get to the show.

[John]

And the trap talk podcast is brought to you in part by RM shooting clinics.

[Ricky]

Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Nini Financial. We believe in putting people first.