Part 3: Listener Question Extravaganza | Trap Talk Podcast Episode 111

Summary

Trap Talk Podcast: Episode 111 - Part 3: Listener Question Extravaganza

Release Date: January 31, 2025
Hosts: Zach Nannini & Richard Marshall Jr.

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Episode Overview

In Part 3 of the Listener Question Extravaganza on Trap Talk Podcast Episode 111, hosts Zach Nannini and Richard Marshall Jr. delve deep into the nitty-gritty of trapshooting. This episode focuses on addressing listener-submitted questions, providing expert insights, and sharing valuable tips to help shooters enhance their performance. The discussion covers a range of topics from gun movement and foot positioning to equipment tuning and overcoming physical challenges.

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Listener Questions and Expert Responses

1. Gun Movement Timing After Calling for the Target (Question by Chet Som, Prescott, Arizona)

Chet's Question:
When do you move the gun after calling for the target? Do you wait until the target is beyond the streak and in clear focus, or do you move the gun immediately towards the streak and then focus on the target as the gun moves?

Expert Response:

• Rick Marshall Jr. [00:53]:
  "As soon as I see a flash, I move. And as soon as I move, the target starts clearing up. Boom. I'm pulling the trigger."
  He emphasizes the importance of immediate movement upon calling for the target to maintain momentum and clarity.

• Ricky [02:44]:
  "At the end of the day, you call pull, you see the target, you start moving in that direction."
  Ricky highlights that movement should be instantaneous to avoid losing focus and momentum.

• Rick [02:47]:
  Discusses different shooting styles, such as high gun hold points, and how some shooters wait for the target to break the plane of the gun before moving. He advocates for minimizing gun movement to maintain consistency and reduce chances of missing targets.

Key Takeaway: Move the gun immediately after calling for the target to maintain focus and momentum. Different styles exist, but consistency and minimizing unnecessary movement are crucial for success.

2. Foot Position Differences Between Singles and Doubles (Question by David Eckhart, California)

David's Question:
Do you have your foot position for each post the same as singles and doubles, or do you set up for the second shot in doubles and twist back so you unwind to the second shot?

Expert Response:

• Rick [28:00]:
  "I stand the same for singles, handicap, and doubles."
  Rick maintains a consistent foot position across different disciplines to simplify the shooting process and reduce variables.

• Ricky [30:12]:
  Explains that he adjusts both feet together when needed to align with target positions, ensuring the correlation between feet remains consistent.

• Zach [36:10]:
  Emphasizes the importance of consistency and having a method that remains steady across all posts to eliminate confusion and variables during shooting.

Key Takeaway: Maintain a consistent foot position across singles, handicap, and doubles. Only make minor, deliberate adjustments based on target positioning to ensure stability and consistency.

3. K80 Trap Special Barrel Hanger Adjustment (Question by Daryl, Unspecified Location)

Daryl's Question:
I recently bought a used K80 Trap Special. My singles and handicap have improved, but my doubles have gotten worse. The barrel hanger on the double barrel is a number six. Do you recommend changing the hanger, and if so, to what number?

Expert Response:

• Rick [38:41]:
  "On the K80, the front hanger either spreads the barrels apart or brings them closer together. The higher the number, the more distance between the barrels, making it shoot flatter."
  He suggests experimenting with different hanger numbers to achieve consistent shooting between barrels.

• Ricky [39:56]:
  Recommends starting with a number three hanger to address the inconsistency in barrel shooting.
  "Try to make the over-under barrels both shoot where the single barrel shoots."

• Zach [44:56]:
  Advises Daryl to pattern the barrels on a rest and adjust hangers and choke tubes to ensure both barrels shoot in the same spot.

Key Takeaway: Adjusting the barrel hanger can significantly impact shooting consistency. Start with a lower hanger number (e.g., number three) and pattern the barrels to ensure both shoot in the same spot. Further adjustments may be necessary based on specific gun behavior.

4. Improving Scores with Hand Tremors (Question by Vince Paladino, 77 Years Old)

Vince's Question:
I developed a hand tremor in both my hands. My scores are between a 12 and a 15. Any suggestions or ideas?

Expert Response:

• Rick [46:54]:
  Suggests adding weight to the gun's stock and fore-end to make it smoother and easier to move.
  "Try adding some weight in the stock and in the fore end to get it a little bit heavier."

• Ricky [48:56]:
  Recommends adjusting the grip and holding technique to improve control.
  "Change how you're holding the gun, on the fore end, try that stuff."

• Zach [49:27]:
  Suggests strengthening other muscles (arms, shoulders, back) to provide more stability and possibly shifting focus to minimize hand movement.

Key Takeaway: For shooters with hand tremors, adjusting the gun's weight distribution and grip can enhance stability and control. Additionally, strengthening relevant muscle groups can help mitigate the effects of tremors on shooting performance.

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Key Techniques and Tips Shared

Consistency is Crucial

Both Zach and Rick emphasize the importance of maintaining consistency in shooting techniques. Whether it's foot positioning, gun movement, or equipment settings, having a steady method reduces variables and enhances performance.

• Ricky [34:07]:
  "This is a consistency game. We want everything to be consistent, the same."

Mental Focus and Overcoming Pressure

Handling the mental aspect of trapshooting is vital, especially during high-pressure situations.

• Rick [19:08]:
  Discusses the battle between the conscious mind ("angel") and subconscious mind ("devil"). He advises counteracting negative thoughts with positive affirmations to maintain focus and performance.

• Zach [20:09]:
  Points out that even experienced shooters feel the rush of excitement, highlighting the natural human response to competitive situations.

Key Takeaway: Developing strong mental control and positive self-talk strategies can help shooters stay focused and perform consistently under pressure.

Patterning and Equipment Tuning

Properly tuning and patterning equipment is essential for achieving consistent scores.

• Rick [43:17]:
  Explains that hangers and choke tubes can vary even within the same manufacturer, affecting shooting consistency.
  "Choke tubes can definitely be different. Same manufacturer, same constriction, but they hit the target differently."

• Zach [44:18]:
  Encourages shooters to pattern their guns on a rest to ensure both barrels shoot in the same spot before making further adjustments.

Key Takeaway: Regularly patterning guns and ensuring equipment is properly tuned can significantly improve shooting accuracy and consistency.

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Insights on Handling Competition

During competitions, maintaining composure and sticking to tried-and-tested methods can make the difference between winning and losing.

• Ricky [17:07]:
  Shares personal experiences of missing shots under pressure and emphasizes the importance of staying in the moment.

• Rick [23:06]:
  Highlights his ability to handle unexpected situations without letting them disrupt his performance.
  "If there's an issue, I stop. I know who, what everybody's scores are. That affects some."

Key Takeaway: Staying adaptable and maintaining a calm, focused approach during competitions helps shooters perform consistently, even when unexpected challenges arise.

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Conclusion

Episode 111 of the Trap Talk Podcast provides a wealth of knowledge for trapshooters of all levels. By addressing specific listener questions, Zach Nannini and Richard Marshall Jr. offer practical advice on improving shooting techniques, equipment tuning, and mental strategies. The hosts emphasize the importance of consistency, proper equipment setup, and mental fortitude in achieving high scores and enjoying the sport. Whether you're a seasoned shooter or just starting, the insights from this episode can help elevate your trapshooting game.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Rick [01:40]:
  "I hold down low. So I see that streak is just. I literally, that little bit of movement, it starts clearing up. Shoot, follow through."

• Ricky [02:44]:
  "At the end of the day, you call pull, you see the target, you start moving in that direction."

• Rick [19:08]:
  "You have the angel, which is your conscious mind, right? And you have the devil, which is your subconscious mind."

• Zach [20:09]:
  "But you guys are just kind of rolling through those hundreds, but every time you're knocking on that door that you get that rush."

• Rick [28:00]:
  "I stand the same for singles, handicap, and doubles."

• Ricky [34:07]:
  "This is a consistency game. We want everything to be consistent, the same."

• Zach [44:56]:
  "Please feel free. Send us a follow up. Let us know what you tried, what you didn't try."

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Note: This summary excludes sponsorship messages and advertisements interspersed within the episode, focusing solely on the core content and listener interactions.

Transcript

[John]

Welcome to season three of Trap Talk.

[Rick]

Brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.

[Zach]

Moving on, we've got Chet Som from Prescott, Arizona. And Chet writes in and says, hello, gents. I want to wish you all a merry Christmas and happy New Year. Happy New Year, Chet. Merry Christmas to you. Yep. My question is, when do you move the gun after calling for the target. Timing with your. With your question, Chet. Hold on. He's got more. He's got.

[Rick]

Go no further. Oh, when you see it.

[Zach]

All right, moving on. Chet, thanks for the question. When you see the target. All right, so check goes on to say, do you wait until the target is beyond the streak and in clear focus, then you move the gun, or do you move the gun immediately towards the streak and then focus on the target as the gun moves? Thank you all for sharing your knowledge. Chet Sum, Prescott, Arizona. Good question. Chet, perfect timing. We're just kind of getting into this off of Debbie's question. So, guys, it's a fair question. Obviously, you call for the birds, you don't move, the target comes up. But, yeah, you know, in some senses, you're a little bit more deliberate. Right. In singles, you're a little bit more aggressive and handicap. I. Can we break it down for Chet a little bit more?

[Rick]

So Chet is actually a student of mine. He's done lessons with me out. So camp next to me here last year.

[Zach]

Oh, great.

[Rick]

But what I will say is, so I hold on the house. So I. As soon as I see a flash, I. I move. And as soon as I move. I mean, it's micro. I see the target starts clearing up. Boom. I'm pulling the trigger. I'm locking on, looking at the front edge of that target and pulling the trigger and follow through the. The. I'm matching the speed of the target. Okay, now, singles. That's handicap singles. I'm on the house. I see it. I move up, and I'm actually a little slower, so. Because it's a lot more gun movement in singles than it is in handicap, and you want to be more deliberate because you have more gun movement. So you see it shoot, follow through. Okay, doubles. I'm shooting on the streak on the first shot, and as you're moving over the. The second target's clear. That's just plain.

[Ricky]

It has to be. By then, it's clear.

[Rick]

There'S no more to elaborate on that. That it's just. Now, if you're holding up off the house a little bit, you're not. You're going to see the target as it's moving, comes up above your barrel, it's going to be clear. And then you're. You got to shoot sometimes by doing that, that'll surprise people. And it's so clear, they're like. And they. They have a dead gun, no man's land. So that's why I like holding down low. So I see that streak is just. I literally, that little bit of movement, it starts clearing up. Shoot, follow through. You know, you want to attack it more in handicap, especially long yardage. Now when you're up, I'm going to say 22 yard line and. And to the 17 yard line. It's the same as shooting singles.

[Ricky]

Yeah, I think Rick covered that wonderfully. At the end of the day, you call pull. You see the target, you start moving in that direction. I mean, I'm not, I'm not holding it back and saying, wait till it becomes clear and then go like there's too much time in between. You know, that for me, it's all, you know, pretty much happening instantaneously. The only caveat to that would be there are different styles of shooting. So if someone's shooting, let's just say a high gun hold point, like a rich bullet or a dambonius, if you're trapping the target, which means it's coming to your barrel and it never meets your barrel and you're intersecting it well, then those people are moving when it comes out of the house, right. When it comes out, just like us, they're starting to move directionally over to the shot and trap the target. There are some shooters that hold a higher gun that are waiting for the target to break the plane of the gun before they move. That would be a Dave Kelly. So Dave Kelly, he told me, he says, zach, he says, I sit up and I'm waiting for that target to break the crest of my gun, and then I'm making a really small move. Okay, now that's a different type of high gun hold shooting. Right. It's not trapping the target underneath. It's letting it break and basically cross, creating a trap house where the gun is the same way that me and Ricky are on the house. He's just up at a higher spot. Now, if you're doing it that way, well, then you're not moving the gun until it gets on top of the gun. Right. So that might be if that's 5ft, 10ft, whatever that number is, that's as long as it needs to be. But in that scenario, yes, you know, you're not waiting for the flash. You're waiting for a spot where you start making a move to the gun. I'm not a big fan of that for the same reason that Ricky said, dead gun. You don't have. You don't have momentum coming into the target. Right? And for me, I like yes. And Dave was great at arm shooting, but as an arm shooter, I mean, he was one of the best I've ever seen where he can make a move and snap and shoot and just instinctively shoot Big, big scores, you know, it can. One thing I've learned about this game is you can do it so many different ways and achieve success if you do it consistently. If you say, this is what I'm gonna do, and you do it every single time, you could be wrong about half of it. But if you always do it that way and you. You get good at it, you could, you know, you could fail forward almost a lot in this game. There's some people that have some form that I would say is questionable, and then I go out and they just kick the crap out of me in a shoot off. And I'm like, well, how'd that work out? I guess that those feet must have been pretty fine, I guess, you know, so, you know, at the end, Ricky's laughing because he knows it's happened. We've seen you've gone out there and you're like, ah, this guy, I don't know what the hell he's doing. And then bam.

[Rick]

He's just, you know, Zach and I is. I'm not worried about the guy standing next to me. I'm worried about breaking my targets. That's folks, that's how if you get to shoot off with Zach, you can get up top on old Nini.

[John]

Oh, yeah, just get.

[Ricky]

Get on in the vault. It's easy.

[Zach]

Just get out there, do. Do a crazy stance, squat down, move around in a weird way.

[John]

Yeah, it's over. All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky bullshit them. We both love them.

[Rick]

Yep. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better, folks. Get yourself a Craig Off. Your scores will increase.

[John]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better, and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the Grand Pick one up.

[Rick]

Yeah, winning, like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[Zach]

Of course.

[John]

Yeah, the Grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[Rick]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[John]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

So I, you know, I think the. This, these are good questions that, you know, as far as how do you attack the target? But I think one of the key points you guys brought out here too, is there is a little difference between singles handicap and doubles, right? These are different disciplines. Treat them that way, right? Just like you have different hold points. Maybe on post 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. You need to have it. It's your way, but you need to have a way for each thing that you're gonna go do.

[Rick]

You go to check everything. And like, Zach made a good point about, you know, this high, this high, whatever. Okay, Chat. Go out and, and try it. Go shoot a practice. What I would recommend now is, is you can shorten the learning curve so much now with the pat trap. Is setting the trap on a straightaway and go stand there, upholstery and, and you know, you. Okay, shoot that way. Maybe hold a foot off the house. Try that now. Like Leo Harrison. Anybody's ever watched Leo's video. Leo looked around the barrel. So as soon as that target appeared, he saw it. And then as soon as it just was getting to his barrel, wham. He was shooting. So there's different aspects of it. So it's to. Each is their own. You gotta find what's comfortable for you and work on that and perfect that.

[Zach]

Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. And there's some guys who go out to the practice trap and they're worried about putting up a score. Like, no, guys, this is the practice. You should try the things. You know, obviously working with a great coach and, you know, having Rick or Zach come out, these are. These are important too. But on your own, you should say, like, what would happen if I moved my whole point here? And. Or what if I did look a little higher or more. Put my eyes in more? You know, these. There's all these variables. Right.

[Ricky]

That they have to know if you try. Right?

[Zach]

Yeah, Right.

[Ricky]

And there's no. And like I said, there's no secret sauce. Right. There's a lot of things that we can help you with. There's a lot of ideas that we can do. But we can't just, you know, take the magical words and the magical whole points and sprinkle it on you. And now you're Ricky. Like, it just doesn't work that way. You have to work at the game. You have to put effort in. You have to put time in. You have to figure out your own mind. You have to figure out your own journey, and it is your own journey. You were going on your own journey in this game, and it's just like everything else in life. There's going to be struggle, there's going to be up, there's going to be down, there's going to be everything, and you have to do it. And it's the process. And. And that's the fun of it, is the pain.

[Rick]

Make sure the gun fits. Okay.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Rick]

Number two, have fun. Okay. If you can have fun and enjoy it, your. Your scores are going to get better. But like John said, he made a good point. When I go practice, I'm there to work. Okay. This is what I'm doing, and it's every shot. And then when I get into the event, my practice has carried me into the event. Okay. So, yeah, you do want to try stuff there. Okay, I'm trying. Well, that didn't work. So guess what? When you're in the event, you know, if you do that, it ain't gonna work, so. Really?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Rick]

Affect your practice, and you do that, right, It'll carry you over into the competition.

[Zach]

Yeah. Because you get some of that, like, practice confidence. Right. Like, for me, I. It came out the most in doubles, like, knowing where I was gonna hold, where I was gonna look on each post. Then when I went and shot doubles, I didn't have to think about that part that was set. It was about now I just need to focus and stay in the moment because I had gained a little bit of that confidence on. I know how I'm going, how I'm going to shoot doubles. Not how, just how I'm going to do it. And that does help a lot.

[Ricky]

Yeah. You can't go out there wondering what you're going to do in between every shot. Every, you know, guys are changing hold points and every. You'll poke it around and you can't. You got to have a plan. You got to execute it.

[John]

All right, folks, we got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ATA White Flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[Rick]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there. All the reps, you know, Bill Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow, everything they do for the sport and all the shoots. Really appreciate it.

[John]

They're always there. They're always trying to make a better target, and they're always supporting, Supporting the game that we love so much. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

Yep. And how many times have we heard. Probably I hear it more on my squads than you guys do, but, you know, squad mates coming off the field saying, oh, the conditions were this, so I moved my hold point up or I. I went over to the left and, oh, that didn't work out. I can tell you one thing, there's one guy on this podcast who never changes one thing. It's Rick. He always says, I don't change anything. I hold exactly where I hold. I don't what's going on.

[Ricky]

I don't change anything either. I very rarely ever. I mean, if you. If you take me last year, in the 20, 24 year, I might have changed and deviated from my plan maybe one or two times in the whole year.

[Zach]

I think that people underestimate how important.

[Rick]

That is because double second 50. He deviated.

[Zach]

I deviated one shot. Just one. You know, he hit a lot of them, though. He.

[Ricky]

He had a lot of broken.

[Rick]

And then, yeah, yeah, he goes, I changed. You did? You did. You go, I don't know. I changed. And I was like, I didn't.

[Ricky]

I. I didn't. I didn't change. I didn't change anything. Whole points or whatever. I just changed my tempo and that.

[Zach]

Okay, that'll do it.

[Ricky]

You know, it's not like, oh, I'm going to hold here now, and I'm just going to surprise myself. No, I kept everything the same.

[Rick]

Jody, she got a nice, you know, gift out of that, you know, Martin Lewis money that I got.

[Ricky]

You know what, Ricky? If I can fail so that you could succeed, I'll gladly do it every day.

[Rick]

But seriously, I'm not. I'm not being. I'm not.

[Zach]

Team effort.

[Rick]

But we just said it about deviating, and this is the main thing. And I see this every day in my lessons because, folks, I've been teaching, I taught all the way up to literally two days before Christmas, I was out of town teaching private lessons, and I'm getting ready to leave on January 1st to head out to California to teach.

[Zach]

You've got a good sample size of what people are doing out there, Rick. You really do.

[Rick]

And I see it all the time where you know, they broke 25 straight. And I had this happen in some lessons here back in. I guess it was in October, I think it was at a clinic. And Guy broke 25 straight, went out the second round and broke 18. He's like, I don't know. I don't know why I did that. And I said, what'd you do? Well, I changed on how I was shooting the targets. Just like Zach said about his doubles, he changed. Don't change. And it's easy to say don't change. But what you want to do is just stay in the moment and you see it, you shoot it. That's it. There's no like, oh, because like I said, he deviated his tempo and he went from going boom, boom to boom. And then he. Then he got quicker on a few of them. And I was like. And I remember you walked by me and I was like, hey, get the hell back in the game. And you were like. It was.

[Ricky]

Because it was a whirlwind. But you get, when you get shook up, sometimes you don't always know what you're doing in the moment. Right. It's always easy to go back after the fact and say, oh, well, this is what I did. Or that was. But when you're getting. When you're on the ropes and you're getting hit by a guy, all you're doing is trying to cover your face. At the end of the day, you're not going to figure out how to do that if you haven't done that. And, and that's that experience. And, you know, Ricky, you know, with all the experience and knowledge that he has and has been there so many times, he can't even remember when he's messed something like that up before because it's been so many years ago before he, you know, now for him, it's just, you know, walk in the park. But for, yeah, for, for most people, you're gonna have to hit that barrier. You're gonna have to figure that out yourself. You're gonna have to fail forward. You're gonna have to mess it up. And I learned more in that one event than the rest of the week. And it helped me and propelled me into the other events, which. Which I thought was valuable and helpful.

[John]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from 27 yard line ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eight eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[Rick]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[John]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[Rick]

Yeah. His dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support. It. Really appreciate it here.

[John]

With that being said, let's get back.

[Rick]

To the show and Zach going back to that and I'm not picking you on by any means, but it's a good, it's good for the episode is he missed more on one post than he missed in the prior 300 doubles. And that was a fact. I mean, you.

[Ricky]

Yeah, it's first in perspective. I had missed one target out of the 250 doubles I had shot. And then, and then in the last 50 doubles, I shot a 45.

[Rick]

Yeah. And I was like.

[Ricky]

And, and not that a 45 is that bad, but when you, when you broke 249 out of 250 in doubles.

[Zach]

Right.

[Ricky]

45 is, you know, 500 more losses than the rest of the week. I was shooting pretty good.

[Rick]

And going to. That is, you know, I've been there. I. And listen, I've shot along and all of a sudden got to a post and missed one. I'm like, okay, you know, well, guess what? I just said that. Okay, no, you should just go. I was in front of us behind it. And then go on. But I got, you know, narrow minded on that. I missed the next one. I missed the next one. Then I end up hitting the last one for one and I'm like, wow, it happens.

[Ricky]

It happens when you're.

[Zach]

It does. Yeah. You get caught up in that moment.

[Ricky]

And I've seen it, I mean, I've seen it happen to the best of them before in.

[Rick]

In handicap, you know, and it's like. And it ended up with a 90, you know, so.

[Zach]

Well, it's the same as when you guys, you know, like when you're on a score and you're coming into that last grouping of shots, those last couple of posts, I mean, sometimes you're fighting to stay in the moment, right? Because you're feeling that rush coming on, you know, for us normies out here, I'm just saying, like you're fighting against the emotion, you know, and you, what.

[Rick]

You want to do. And here's a quick tip. When you're straight and it say it's your first time, don't think about your end score. Just think about this target, okay? See it, shoot it all through. Think about this target, then this target, then this target, then this target. Next thing you know, you got them all broken.

[Zach]

Yeah, but how, how active do you have to be though, Rick, when you're having that kind of conversation? Because for me, I need to be really present, really active, saying, okay, one at a time, see the target, stay in the gun. Like, I'm having a pretty big conversation with myself.

[Rick]

You, John, I've always said you have the angel, which is your conscious mind, right? And you have the devil, which is your subconscious mind. That devil's always in there. It's always talking to you like, oh man, you're gonna get that left angle and what you do. And this is from the words of, of my great coach and mentor, Frank Hoppy. He said, you need to counteract that with a positive thought. And you say devil, I'm gonna shoot and hit every left, whatever it might be, right? And then guess what, you don't worry about it. And it just take, you know, listen, I broke a lot of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

[Zach]

Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

[Rick]

Each one I break, it still doesn't get any easier.

[Ricky]

It doesn't. And, and that it doesn' easier.

[Zach]

I think the fan, I think the listeners would be surprised, they'd be surprised to, to hear that, right? Because they, they think that you guys are just kind of rolling through those hundreds, but every time you're knocking on that door that you get that, that rush. I mean, it's just natural, right, to get that rush coming up.

[Rick]

You know, here's the thing, you know, like I said, and everybody's heard it multiple, multiple times on all the podcasts. You know, I've been fortunate to shoot with and know a lot of the all time greats in our game. And you know, one of those was Brett Robinson who's been on the show. And you know, when I shot with Brett when I was 17 and I, and I asked him and I'VE said this before, you know, you don't get nervous. He said if you don't get them butterflies in your stomach, you don't get those sweaty hands. He said, quit, it's over. And I've heard people say that, oh, I don't get nervous. And I've watched them shoot. They're nervous. They just don't want to say they're nervous or. I've seen those individuals break some good scores but miss at the end a lot because it. They just like, whatever where me the last five. I mean, I always tell myself, okay, you get to that last post and you just wanted a time one now. And I've missed at the end. I missed the 100 target of the 200 target. I don't know how many times for 99s or 199s. It happens, okay, it happens. But like Brett Robinson told me one time, it don't matter if you missed the first one, the last one, it's a loss, right?

[Ricky]

It don't matter. It don't matter.

[John]

We got another sponsor we gotta thank. Shotguns west. The Pelas, baby. Check out these wings. You, Ricky don't got these.

[Ricky]

He ain't that stylish, folks.

[Rick]

Listen, Zach tries to wear these driving down the road doing podcasts. It's okay.

[John]

We still love you when you look good. You don't have to apologize. Remember that not only can you hit more targets, but you could look good doing it. Give Ryan a call.

[Rick]

That's right.

[John]

With that being said, let's get back.

[Rick]

To the the show. So, yeah, I always put it in perspective and it's each target one at a time. But I do a lot of selft talk and that is the conscious. You know, it's okay. I'm controlling my subconscious mind by. I'm watching targets. I'm watching. I'm aware of my surroundings, what's going on. And for me, I always lead off. As you guys know, we've all shot together and Zach and I've shot a lot together. I control what goes on on the squad. If there's an issue, I stop. I know who, what everybody's scores are. That affects some. I know some shooters that cannot handle knowing, like if they're shooting, say with Zach and he's straight and they figure out he's straight, it bothers them. I know what everybody's shooting.

[Ricky]

Yeah, you can't let that bother you. I mean, it. It is what it is. And your superpower on the. Yeah, to the other side of the coin. I don't Lead off, I'm on four, and when I'm shooting my best scores, I don't know what everyone's shooting. I'm like, right, you're in your line. And I'm like, I have no idea what.

[Zach]

Yeah, this person.

[Ricky]

This person. This person. Because for me, it's another thing that I don't have to do because Ricky's doing it on that end. I know when somebody Mr. Hit it, but I'm really, like, out of that side of the game when I'm shooting well. And when I'm not shooting as well, I tend to know what everyone's doing. I'm like, oh, I know Ricky's down.

[Zach]

Everybody.

[Ricky]

I know where everybody's at. But when I'm really shooting good and I come off the line, I'll have to ask everybody what they did. And, you know, sometimes we kind of know what.

[Rick]

What's going on, and everybody kind of knows what's going on.

[Zach]

But, yeah, I'm more on that side, though. Yeah, I'm more on the side of. Yeah, if you're doing good. Yeah.

[Rick]

I just.

[Zach]

I'll say this, though, Rick, your. Your superpower is being able to stop shooting, take care of whatever's happening, have a conversation, turn back, and just keep smoking. Birds where most of the people on the line, if they were on a score and they had to stop and deal with a situation, would melt.

[John]

Right.

[Zach]

Because they need momentum. Right. To carry them to that score. I've seen you stop, have a conversation, walk to the scorekeeper, explain to them how to score. Trap, ask the squad if they're ready. Squad's ready. Turn and just go back to shooting. I mean, target.

[Rick]

I, I don't know.

[Zach]

It's. It's a superpower.

[Rick]

Yeah. I don't know how many hundreds of doubles I've broke where literally I have got the. To the last, like, say two posts, and something happens and I'll stop. And everybody's, like, looking at me, and I'm like, well, I'll go back. Okay, take care of that. Come out.

[Ricky]

It happens a lot.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rick]

Remember last year, Zach, we were shooting the both of us. Hey, but remember I broke my last pair for a hundred, and then the trap ran out of targets, and I was like, hey, guys.

[Zach]

This is when Zach did not want to be on post four.

[Rick]

He wanted to be done post two. I think that time when it happened.

[Zach]

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. It's. I, I, I'm kind of like Zach in that sense of if I'm shooting good, I really don't know what's going on around me. That's a positive thing, you know, so. But this is Chet, thank you for the question.

[Rick]

Yes, thank you.

[Zach]

Really helpful. Yeah, guys. Yeah, we will definitely see you in Tucson. And the takeaway here is that, you know, even the big dogs are having to keep themselves in the moment. Positive self talk, fight against that subconscious. Keep knocking on the door, keep fighting for every bird and never give up and never give in and always keep going forward. So again, thank you, Chet, for that, guys. Thank you for those great answers and insights. I really appreciate it.

[John]

Hey, Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay's Shoot Management. They're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[Rick]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean, they've got majority of the satellite grands, majority. The state shoots, I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with the that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You can see your squad if they paid, you know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal. They're just.

[John]

Ricky knew how much money he made.

[Ricky]

Before he even got off the line.

[John]

He was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job.

[Ricky]

We're good to go.

[John]

We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I, I know they're, they're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[Rick]

Yeah. Cole and Larry Cushman been longtime supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them. And you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance. In literally 10 minutes, you can have your guns insured. And they're just great. They're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife, animals and that such and your guns. It's just a great.

[John]

It's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got those Craig Offs, you got to keep them insured, so.

[Rick]

Oh, exactly.

[John]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

Okay, next one's coming from David Eckhart. From California. And David says, I just watched your finale episode, season two, finale episode about doubles. And, and the one thing I didn't really see was too much of you guys addressing foot position. I know we, we covered it a little bit in there. Rick, I think you, you did a little bit. Um, I think David's maybe just looking for a little bit more. He, he goes on to say, do you have your foot position for each post the same as singles and doubles, or do you set up for the second shot in doubles and twist back so you unwind to the second shot? I've had a lot of people that shoot doubles well tell me a lot of things. So I wanted to know what you think. I, I just want to say before you guys answer here, and David's a good example of this, the questions are getting a lot more specific in depth. I mean, these are real trap shooting specifics. Guys, we really appreciate it. This is the, this is the nitty gritty here, like really understanding foot position. And does it differ from singles to doubles? I mean, this is some high level stuff here. So thank you for that, David. All right, guys, foot position. Rick, kind of, you know, can you break it down for us how it varies for you too?

[Rick]

How I, how I taught and I even taught Zach. Same thing is I stand the same for singles, handicap and doubles. Now I'm turning clockwise as I get down because as you're a right hand, this is for right handed shooters. As you're a right handed shooter, when you get to 4 and 5, you're unwinding to the second target. If you're shooting the straightaway first. Okay. Now if you're shooting the right bird first, like Sean, Holly does.

[Zach]

Like Holly, yeah.

[Rick]

Then you would want to not have your body turned as much. Okay. So the reason I do that is that same foot position for all three disciplines. And some instructors teach different. That's how I teach. Is that one less thing you have to worry about. And now the difference is, and then doubles, you do want to have your weight for just a little bit more than shooting singles or handicap because you're absorbing that first shot and then second. Yeah, I would recommend David is, look, I mean, I thought we showed the feet position on there a little bit.

[Zach]

We did, we did some for sure. But I think what David was saying is he would have liked maybe like a really specific look on each post for you.

[Ricky]

And seanicap, he's saying, well, is it different? Even though I'm seeing what you're seeing, I'm not seeing what you're doing in singles and handicap.

[Zach]

And I think, yeah, is there a difference?

[Ricky]

I'm with rick on this 100. I think if it, if it's working for singles and handicap, it should work for doubles. Now, the only thing I would add to that is I will shift my body in direction based on my break. So if I get to post one and I feel that I'm, you know, I break one on the back and I feel like I just wasn't quite getting there for whatever reason, I will make a quarter shift, turn to that, to that target kind of like he talked about to that second bird. And that might not be exactly where I have my feet in singles and handicap, but maybe that trap is a little bit to the left. Maybe the field is a little bit off. And for me to get to the center of the bird where I want to be, I have to shift my feet over. So.

[Zach]

So now, Zach, are you, are you rotating your first foot or are you moving both feet in that case, like, what's your strategy there?

[Ricky]

I move both feet.

[John]

Okay.

[Ricky]

So if my, if my, if my, you know, feet are in one position and this is the spot, I would pick them up and I would shift them over both at the same time and drop them back down. So my in between my feet, my in between both feet and the direction of my feet never change. So like, the correlation between my feet stays the same. And I would say that correlation probably stays the same from 1 to 5. It's just I'm shifting kind of where the center of my body is based on, you know, that rotation flexibility is.

[Rick]

That day that, I mean, in Zach, on several of the episodes we've talked about, especially like when I get down to post four and five, there's times I'll. I'll break the back off that the second bird and Zach will say, oh, he, he just turns his feet just. I mean, and it just a little bit and then right back in the center of. Because all that is.

[Zach]

Yeah, your flexibility has something to do with it. Right.

[Rick]

Because you just changed up. Oh, it worked. Boom. Oh, yeah.

[Ricky]

Guess me for me, you know, and sometimes like you said, it might be on post four, I broke the backside of it and I give myself and I'm talking a 1 inch turn, a 1 inch and I smoke ball the next one. And I'm like, oh, yeah, now did that one inch really do anything in my mind? Yes. And I felt better about it. But. But the proof is in the pudding. I mean, if you mentally believe it and you feel like, okay, I'm short and I need to make these adjustments. Then you make those adjustments.

[John]

Also we've got Mid state Precious metals. Ron Prescott, he, he's a great guy for all your gold and silver needs. Ricky, tell him about our friend.

[Rick]

Yeah, Ron, he graciously donated a 10 ounce silver bar to our live in person podcast in Tucson. And you know, he has everything. I bought a bunch of silver from him. You know, we got our silver and gold for the, the fun day at, at the Nevada State shoot on Monday this year. You know, John got all the silver and gold for the Nevada State shoot. So look him up for your silver and gold needs. He'll give you the best price out there.

[John]

He really is. And, and he's a friend of the trap shooters. I mean he's looking to get gold and silver to these gun clubs for their shoots at the lowest price across the country. He's doing him a service and helping grow the sport. So, you know, thank you so much for that, Ron.

[Rick]

Yeah, thank you Ron. We appreciate it.

[John]

With that being said, let's get to the show.

[Ricky]

You know, I really do. I believe in my core that it makes a difference because how many other sports are played golf? Anything where these minute little changes, minute little adjustments make a huge difference. I mean guys will spend a thousand hours perfecting their swing on a golf course. When they change their hand grip a quarter inch, like it's, yeah, it's gotta, it's gotta be something here, right? I mean we're getting micro because we're at the point where we're breaking really high scores and doing it consistently. So now, okay, every little bit matters. And, and, and the people that shoot the best, in my opinion, if you watch them, they look very robotic and very methodical. They're not changing a lot. I mean they're very consistent.

[Zach]

I think that that's one of the things that your, your kind of level of your newer shooters or maybe some shooters that are struggling with inconsistency, they maybe just have too many variables in their game. And so instead of just going out and focusing on staying in the moment and looking target, they're still focused on some mechanics where it's like the mechanics should be settled right when you come into competition. Like, okay, this is how I shoot and this is how we're going to shoot it. So I, I think that's one thing that, you know, they're not the same shot to shot.

[Ricky]

One of the biggest mistakes that I see early shooters making, especially like just first time shooting, is they step into the 16 yard line. They step into the box. The area where they shoot, then they shoot and then they step out of the box.

[Zach]

Oh, I've seen that.

[Ricky]

And then they step back into the box, right? So it's like new shooter, you know, he's, you know, stepping back, looking at it, you know, and then going back in like once you get where you need to be, be planted and stay in that position and work your feet consistently instead of, you know, in between every shot you're picking up your feet, you're moving stuff. Well, I mean, this is a consistency game. We want everything to be consistent, the same.

[Zach]

We, yeah, we've seen it all, right. We've seen people take a shot and then put their gun down and then they move around in the box. Then they come back to the box and they're looking at the other people shooting versus, you know, there's a lot of that. You got to wash all of that out of your game. All that has to be gone. You want consistency, you got to be the.

[Ricky]

Yes, yes.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very true. And I think, you know, that's just a really big thing that people don't focus on enough is that I need to have my method and it's just mine and I'm going to try it on every single post and get that consistency back. I think that's really important.

[Ricky]

So if you can make yourself the non variable in the game, I think that would be a good place to start. Because there's so many variables, right? There's variables of wind, there's variables of light, there's variables of target height, there's variables of weather, temperature, shells, you know, variables, right? So if you could say, well, could I eliminate a variable? Could I eliminate my variable? You know, the differences between what I do every day. If you could eliminate the variable, you, I think your score is going to get better. I mean, I watch Dagon shoot all the time and I feel like he does not have a different. I mean he just shoots this way and there's no variance there. It's exactly.

[Zach]

He's a perfect example of that for sure. I, that was one of the, the benefits of like when you make the 27 yard line because now the game is set, right? It's not about how do I shoot the 24, 25. Right? You made it to the 27. Now you know, these are the three things you need to perfect.

[Ricky]

You're gonna learn today.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I think David, David was referencing also I think, you know, when you See, people in doubles, like, set up for the second bird and do that winding motion back to the house. I see people do that, so I, I know what he's talking about. Kind of that wind back before they call for the target. I. I think if your feet are in a good position where you hit that second bird with good rotation, you're. You're probably okay.

[Ricky]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe their feet aren't right in singles. Right. So they're doing the wrong singles hold point feet. And then they're going to doubles and they're saying, well, this works better. Well, yeah, because your feet were wrong anyway. So, you know, you've got to get correct feet first and then go from there.

[Zach]

Perfect. Well, guys, thank you very much for those answers. David, thank you very much for the question. We really appreciate it.

[John]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a shout out to the Cardinal center in Morango, Ohio. They hold the Cardinal Classic and they also hold the Ohio State shoot, which is home of the first back fence shootout. Ricky, what do you think about Ohio?

[Rick]

Listen, I. I love the Cardinals Center. I actually broke the first 100 from the 27 there at their very first shoot ever. Great place. Jake Spangler and their whole clan there. They do an awesome job at running the shoots. The Ohio State shoots ran by the Ohio State association, the Cardinal classics right after the grand. So if you're looking for some. Some more points right after the grand, hit that up so you can get a little more points than old Zach here. But listen, it's a great shoot. Shoot, great facility.

[Ricky]

It really is.

[John]

I, I personally love the RVs. They've got great camping there. They've got a great time. Good shoot, good target presentation. Go check it out. It's worth putting on your list. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

Moving on. We got a question came in from Daryl. He didn't put where he was from. Daryl says, I recently bought a used K80 trap special. I mean, congratulations, the choice of champions. He says, my singles and handicap have improved, but my doubles have gotten worse. The barrel hanger on the double barrel is a number six. Do you recommend changing the hanger and if so, to what number? I've patterned it and there's a big spread between the barrels of where the top barrel shoots and where the bottom barrel shoots and the top barrel shoots very high. Now, maybe before you guys get into some specific examples, can you guys explain on the K80 what that hanger does and what that's for? Because maybe some People don't know how that system actually works.

[Rick]

On the K80, the front hanger on the K80, it either spreads the barrels apart or brings them close together. If it brings them closer together, it's gonna. So the higher the number, the more distance between the barrels and it's going to shoot flatter.

[Zach]

Yeah. Is it six high?

[Rick]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Is that a high number six?

[Rick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

It makes it shoot flatter. Okay. Okay.

[Rick]

So like I shoot a five and I'm shooting 75 to 80%. Okay.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Rick]

Without knowing what's the length of barrels, if the top barrel is shooting higher, I mean, it's okay. It's a used gun. Did something happen to the barrels, the chokes, cons? Is it a, you know, eccentric choke? There's all sorts of variables that he left.

[Ricky]

Yeah.

[Rick]

So without elaborating on what. Now what I would recommend is if there's a big difference, okay, Is he hitting the first target, missing the second target, or is he missing the first target, hitting this, you know, vice versa, you know, either side. So if he's hitting the second target and it's shooting higher, the top barrel, then I would definitely recommend putting in like a number three hanger. Okay.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Rick]

And go that route. But you know, Daryl, without knowing the other particulars to it, we really can't elaborate any more on that.

[Zach]

In my opinion, three hanger in. What does it do?

[Ricky]

If he puts a three, it's gonna make it higher.

[Rick]

The three's it's gonna make the bottom barrel shoot higher, but it's also gonna make the top barrel shoot higher too, because it's pulling it down too. So that's what I'm saying. Sounds like there could be an issue or how did he pattern it? That's the other thing. You know, everybody tells me they, oh yeah, I patterned my gun and I watched them stand there and this is what they're doing and they're, they're moving and. Yeah, actually locked in.

[Ricky]

You gotta put it on a vise, put it on a lead bag, pattern it and figure out where it is. Okay. That's step one. I feel okay. And I'm. I'm nobody, but you should have your barrel shooting close to the same spot. Okay. I don't, I don't think. I don't think it's good. I mean, and there's a lot of people that say, Well, I shoot 110 high on my first shot of doubles and then I shoot 60, 40 on my second shot of doubles. And this, that and the other thing I feel like there's too much equation going on in your mind to say, okay, I, I have this high point of impact here. And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna float the. Then I'm gonna, I'm gonna cover the second target. All this stuff like that, right. For me, for me, whatever I do, going back to making it all the same. All three of my barrels shoot in the same spot. Okay, so, so, so what you're gonna have to do, Daryl, step one, Step one is go get hangers. I don't know which one because we're not going to know until you try them. But you're going to need to get those hangers. You're going to work those hangers until those barrels all shoot in the. The over, under barrels shoot in the same spot. And then if you're lucky, the over under barrels are going to shoot where the single barrel shoots. And if they don't, well, then you probably should make some adjustments to your ribs if you have them, to get everything shooting in the same spot. And then learn to shoot from there.

[Rick]

Well, and try choke tubes, too. So the one choke tube you might have, maybe it's shooting higher. That's always maybe.

[Ricky]

Maybe the joke was dropped. Maybe the barrel, whatever. But at the end of the day, if you're saying, well, where do we start to go? Phase one? Well, phase one, if the single barrel is shooting really, really well and you said your singles and handicap are better, well, then I would try to make the over, under barrels. Both barrels shoot where the single barrel shoots. Start there and let us know how it goes. That's right. Yeah, I would.

[Rick]

We can help you.

[Ricky]

Yeah. Then, then we can go from there. But yeah, hit things the same. And I know there's going to be.

[Zach]

Some people that are out of, out of the box with a K80. What's the hanger that is like the default hanger?

[Rick]

Is there one or six?

[Zach]

Oh, five.

[Ricky]

It could be a four, five or a six, depending. But at the end of the day, when it comes from K80, my understanding is that they put the hanger in that makes them shoot in the same spot. I mean, if you're not asking you, you know, because all things being considered, you know, these are very tight tolerances. And I've seen a four hanger and a five hanger shooting exactly the same spot. And I've seen two fours shooting completely different spots. So at the end of the day, they're metal.

[Rick]

So it's metal.

[Ricky]

It's metal and wood. Right. So like at the end of the day you could have 35 number four hangers. And you know, even though the tolerances or whatever, right. You put them on and they're going to shoot a little different. And this is what, just like a choke tube. You could have three full choke tubes and one of them smokes the targets just a little bit harder for whatever reason, even if they're the same size. I, I don't, I'm not a metallurgist. I just know. Well, we, I just know.

[Zach]

Yeah, I've been talking to lance over@ shotgunperformance.com he's been doing a lot of that testing on chokes. Right. And he'll tell you chokes can definitely be different. Same manufacturer, same, you know. You know, but the same exact constriction.

[Ricky]

And they hit the target differently.

[Rick]

Definitely.

[Zach]

Yeah. So definitely you guys, you hit on a really good one there. So, Daryl, let's pattern it on a rest if we didn't. Just to make sure it's really doing what you think. Change those chokes out just to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would.

[Ricky]

If he's having success, pattern the single barrel. Get what that is?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Ricky]

Try to make the over under barrels, both barrels, shoot where that is and that's a good starting point. And if that doesn't help his shooting, then we gotta really diagnose some more.

[Zach]

Yeah, then you gotta dig a little bit deeper into the barrels, the chokes and things like that. So. And Darrell, please feel free. Send us a follow up. Let us know what you tried, what you didn't try. Give us a little bit more detail. We're happy to, you know, answer questions and jump on here and talk more about it. This is a good subject that a lot of people deal with. So, you know, definitely send us some more information. But thank you for the question, guys. Thank you for the details on it.

[John]

All right, folks, we gotta take another quick break and thank one of our Showstoppers sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch, Jonesburg, Missouri. Rick and Carla Burke. Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[Rick]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I can do some hunting with you guys and come to your the annual clay shoot in August, right up to the grand.

[John]

It's a lot of fun. It's the Optimist club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot, they put it on and it's wonderful. I think last year they had over 100, 100 entries into it. And it's just A good time. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[Zach]

Okay. Vince Paladino. Vince says, hi, guys. I'm a trap shooter and I'm 77 years old. I got sick and I developed a hand trimmer in both my hands. My scores are between a 12 and a 15. Any suggestions or ideas? Thank you, Vince. So Vince is dealing with some medical stuff, which definitely happens. So anything you think we could do to maybe help with his scores?

[John]

First of all, thanks for listening to the show.

[Ricky]

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, thank you sending your question. And. And we're sorry to hear that you've got that issue because as. As we all know, Ricky's dealt with some issues in life. I've dealt with issues of medical stuff that happens. And when it happens, it kind of makes it a bummer to shoot at the end of the day. I mean, when I had my Achilles and, you know, and that was torn and I was relearning how to shoot without it, you know, that was a. A learning curve, right? I mean, it was a total learning curve. And I know, Ricky, you've had with your face, you know, being, you know, 700 straight at the grand and your face open up. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you've had to deal with that. Physical differences. Right.

[Rick]

Every. Everything torn in my arm before and wore a brace to shoot in. So different things. What I would recommend, though, is maybe, okay, it's what kind of gun are you shooting?

[Ricky]

His hand.

[Rick]

Yeah, but what kind of gun are you shooting? Possibly this is what I would say. You could try adding some weight in the stock and in the foreigner, the front of the, you know, in front of the forend or in the forend and get it a little bit heavier. And then it might. You might be able to move that gun a little bit easier because it's.

[Zach]

Heavier or smoother, too.

[Rick]

Yeah, it's gonna smooth out. So that could be a. A way to go. Or try. Why don't you. Yeah. Send us a little more detail.

[Ricky]

Yeah. I mean, it's really hard because I'm thinking. I'm picturing in my mind his hands shaking. Right. So the only things that I would try, like, right off the bat without watching you, and we'd love to do it, but maybe the position of your hand forward or backward, that's going to change the control. Right. The more backward you go, the closer you're going to get, the less outstretched you're going to be. The. The tip of the gun's gonna move. The longer you stretch that arm out the more, you know, like Rick is where he's outstretched and he's kind of out there.

[Rick]

More control of the gun.

[Ricky]

That's more control. Right. So, you know, maybe depending on getting your hand a little longer into control, but you're gonna have to try it. But at the end of the day, you know, shoot because you love it and enjoy it. So, you know, if you're not breaking the scores that you used to break because of a physical ailment, but you're still getting the fun of seeing your friends and going out and shooting, then enjoy it and try to bandage it as much as you humanly can. But like, for me, I couldn't stay away even when my Achilles was bad and my scores were not as good, but I just couldn't stay away.

[Rick]

So Anymore. So you meatballs anymore?

[Ricky]

No, no, I couldn't, I couldn't catch nothing. I was, I was hobbling around, but.

[John]

But I stayed with it.

[Ricky]

Right. And, and so, you know, maybe health wise this will go away. We'll pray for you and hopefully it, you know, it works out. But you know, if it doesn't really.

[Rick]

Go into the practice trap, setting the trap on the straightaway and make that gun just a little heavier and, and try that. If your physical ability, you can handle a little more weight and just try that, do some gun lifts and stuff. But I think that might help you just a little bit. And Zach is correct, change how you're holding the gun, you know, on the fore end, you know, try that stuff and then get back to us and let us know, do a follow up with us. We'd really appreciate it.

[Zach]

Yeah, in, in a perfect world, right, if you can strengthen the other muscles, right, your arms, your shoulders, your back. In a perfect world, it gives you more stability, right. Maybe that takes the hands out of it just a little bit. One thing that comes to my mind and is if, if the gun is moving a little bit while he's trying to make the call for the bird, the eye might be coming back to the gun, you know, because our eye kind of goes to what's moving. Maybe if he tries maybe looking a little higher over the gun to take that out of the equation too, you know. But yeah, yeah, just keep trying stuff. But hey, keep shooting trap because you're, you're, I don't care what you put up out there. If you're going out and you're, you're getting that sun, you're hanging out with your friends and you're, you know, smoking a couple of clays. Hey, that's. That's why we're there.

[Ricky]

I don't know.

[Zach]

Hey, maybe. Yeah. All right, well, hey, Vince, again, thank you for watching. We really appreciate it. Here's to all success in 2025 for you.

[Rick]

All right, folks, we need to take a quick second and get to a new show sponsor, Big Red Motorsports. Big Red, they're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[John]

I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by side. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the Autumn Grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters. They love trap shooting and they're doing a great job.

[Rick]

Listen, they got Can Am, Kawasaki cf, Moto Triton and trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys. With that being said, let's get to the show.

[Zach]

And the Trap Talk podcast is brought to you in part by RM Shooting Clinics.

[John]

Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Nini Financial. We believe in putting people first.