Sean Hawley Opens Up: Western Target, Big Scores & Beating Prostate Cancer | Trap Talk Ep. 142

Summary

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Trap Talk From The Back Fence

Episode 142: Sean Hawley Opens Up — Western Target, Big Scores & Beating Prostate Cancer
Date: September 19, 2025
Hosts: Zach Nannini & Richard “Ricky” Marshall Jr.
Guest: Sean Hawley

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Zach and Ricky sit down with legendary trapshooter Sean Hawley during the Grand American 2025. The trio dive deep into Sean’s 44-year trapshooting career, the technical nuances of target setting, the impact of equipment changes on scores, and Sean’s recent, candid battle with prostate cancer. Authentic and packed with insight and wit, the episode balances technical advice with heartfelt personal storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sean Hawley’s Shooting Career: Reflections & Milestones

• Longevity in the Sport
  • Sean marks his 44th year of competitive trapshooting (~45 by their math) and approaches half a million registered targets (02:41, 09:07).
  • “Comes sneaking up on half a million targets.” — Sean (02:50)
• States & Travel in Trapshooting
  • He’s shot in many states but prefers revisiting favorite clubs, occasionally adding new locations for variety, including an upcoming Alaska State Shoot (03:31, 04:27).
• Comfort & Challenge at Clubs
  • Revisits unfamiliar or challenging clubs as a way to “figure it out;” discomfort fuels persistence (04:48).
• Memorable Locales & Side Stories
  • Discusses shooting in Florida, love for seafood, quirky restaurant trips, and the importance of club culture and local amenities (05:40–07:40).
  • “It's not just for the shooting. There’s so much other stuff to do.” — Ricky (05:26)

2. Technical Talk: Eyes, Age, and Adaptation

• Vision Changes with Age
  • Sean opens up about struggling with eyesight deterioration, astigmatism, and adapting prescription eyewear for optimal performance (09:53–13:02).
    • “I do better when the light’s over the top... So much depends on how well I see the target leave the house.” — Sean (10:15, 10:54)
• Shooting Strategy Evolves
  • Less aggressive approach in handicap events due to vision changes, focusing on seeing the target and making one decisive move (11:23).
  • “My whole thing is, you know, see the target, make one move, and live with it. That’s a little harder than it used to be.” — Sean (11:18)
• Practice Habits
  • Emphasizes practicing as if it’s a real event, not “drilling” specific targets; advocates for “perfect practice” and holding the gun still (60:20–61:40).
  • “I always practiced like it was an event...Perfect practice, hopefully.” — Sean (60:40)

3. Target Setting & Club Operations

• Target Speed & Consistency
  • Discusses regional differences in target setting speeds, elevation adjustments, and the importance of uniformity—preferably with a T-bar, but Sean relies on visual assessment (15:07–17:06).
  • Advocates for happy shooters and return customers, prioritizing a good experience over just setting tough targets (20:08–20:29).
  • “Happy shooters are return customers.” — Sean (20:30)
• Equipment: Western Target Change
  • Covers return of the “slot top” White Flyer Western target at Vernal. Sean and Ricky note its advantages, especially in high altitude and western conditions (26:26–29:45).
  • “To me, it’s a better target because there’s more flat area for the round BB to hit. I can set those targets a lot better.” — Sean (26:53)
  • The new Western targets led to noticeably improved breaks and shooter satisfaction at Vernal (28:57–29:45).
• Target Machine Maintenance
  • Detailed advice on sanding throwing arm rubbers (80-grit or 60-grit sandpaper, not polish!), the science of spin, and its crucial effect on target breaks (31:03–34:30, 38:05–41:29).
  • Amusing anecdote about convincing a club to test Vaseline on arms—resulting in erratic, “knuckleball” targets (39:32–40:08).
• Double Target Difficulties
  • Discussed the impact of mechanical changes (spring vs. Uniband), especially on doubles—widens pairs and challenges shooters’ timing and movement (21:35–23:54).
  • “There’s only two ways to make doubles wider. One is a shorter doubles finger... The other is speed.” — Sean (22:00)

4. Competing at a High Level: Personal and Field Observations

• Recent Scores
  • Sean describes his shooting at Iowa and Wisconsin—solid scores in handicap (98s, 99s), despite missing a couple early targets. “You can just tell by the way you’re hitting them... these are aggressive hits.” (11:46)
• Comparisons: Older vs. Younger Shooters
  • Reflects on rising competition from younger shooters like Dagan and Ian Lawrence—“They’ve got better eyes, better reflexes, they’re both cold-blooded animals. Nothing [phases them].” (42:37, 42:48)
• Points & Trophies
  • Changes in ATA point allocation lessen the necessity of shoot-offs, creating a different competitive dynamic where high scores, not shoot-off victories, drive rankings (45:02–45:51).
  • “Now I just break a score and I’m guaranteed to get this many points.” — Ricky (45:10)

5. Personal Health: Battling & Beating Prostate Cancer

• Sean’s Story
  • Sean opens up about his recent battle with prostate cancer, discovered through routine PSA blood tests at age 53 (53:02–56:43).
  • Key Message: Early detection saves lives—Sean had NO symptoms; a PSA rise prompted diagnosis and prompt surgery.
    • “I had no symptoms... Everything was completely normal. I went in there, honestly, for a regular checkup, and in the blood work... mine had gone up three straight years.” — Sean (54:15)
  • Strong urging for all shooters “my age or a little younger or a little older” to get PSA tests and check regularly.
    • “Don’t be afraid to go in and get it looked at. Go get the blood test. Do whatever you got to do. It’s not the end of the world.” (53:36)
  • Candidly details the quick recovery, the importance of acting early, and gratitude for continued good health (54:10–54:43).
• Emotional Support
  • Ricky and Zach express gratitude and support:
    • “We’re glad you’re okay... when things like this are shared, you don’t blare it to everybody... Are you okay? You need anything? That’s just how it is.” — Ricky (55:20)
• Advice to Listeners
  • Sean warns others against ignoring elevated PSAs or delaying action.
    • “I get people coming up to me all the time: hey, what was your PSA? ...Then they tell me what theirs is, double or way over double what mine was, and they’re not doing anything about it.” (56:43)

6. Classic Banter, Humor & Notable Quotes

• “I think you’d look good with a mustache... Like a handlebar—get the handlebar, get on the Harley.” — Sean (02:10)
• “You don’t have to outrun the bear, just outrun your buddy.” — Classic Alaska joke riff (08:35–08:38)
• “Is there anything you’re specifically working on this Grand?”
  “Break as many targets, kill as many of them as you can.” — Sean (62:35)
• “Stay out of the beer... Well, crazy. But Sean, you stay out of the beer, Mike Jackson, my squad mate, Jason Krausey…” — Ricky (63:00)

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• Catch-up & Introduction: 00:00–01:38
• Sean’s Career & Milestones: 02:36–04:27
• Travel Stories & Club Preferences: 05:08–07:44
• Vision/Age Discussion, Shooting Technique: 09:56–13:00
• Target Setting & Consistency Across Clubs: 15:07–18:23
• Western Target Change: 26:15–29:45
• Target Machine Maintenance, Importance of Spin: 31:03–34:30, 38:05–41:29
• Trapshooting Generational Shifts: 42:37–44:02
• Sean’s Story: Prostate Cancer & Health PSA: 53:02–59:17
  • “Don’t be afraid to go in and get it looked at...” (53:36)
• Practice Philosophy: 60:20–61:40
• Heat, Hydration & Practical Tips: 62:58–65:32
• Closing Thoughts & Celebration Plans: 65:55–67:10

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Vision and Age
  • “I’m not seeing the target leave the house...I’m trying to be a little less aggressive in the handicap, but it’s still pretty aggressive.” — Sean (11:23–11:29)
• On Club Preferences
  • “There are some places you go to and you feel real comfortable at...there’s other ones you go to and there’s just something about the place, maybe it isn’t real comfortable for you...” — Sean (04:29)
• On Target Breaks & Machine Maintenance
  • “If the target spins more, it’s going to pull apart better.” — Sean (34:17)
• On Supporting Each Other and Health
  • “It isn’t even about the winning or I didn’t win a whole lot when, you know, and I shot well in Iowa, but I didn’t win a lot because those guys were always...just pounding these. But I was happy with the way I shot...I was making good moves.” — Sean (44:35)
  • “Keep you healthy as long as you can. And we’re all—none of us are making it out of this thing alive.” — Sean (59:24)

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Actionable Takeaways & Summary Advice

• For Shooters:
  • Prioritize vision care, adapt your shooting style as your body changes, and continually focus on seeing the target cleanly.
  • Don’t chase “drill” practice; simulate real events for best prep.
  • Maintain your equipment—sand trap arms, check your targets, and pay attention to machine settings for consistent performance.
  • Travel to new shoots, but nurture relationships at favorite clubs.
• For Club Operators:
  • Consistency in target presentation breeds happy, returning shooters.
  • Listen to shooter feedback and consider practical target and club environment improvements.
• For Everyone:
  • Get your health checked—especially PSA tests for men 50+. Early detection is everything; share and support health stories in the community.

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Closing Note

This episode is a master class in both the technical and personal dimensions of trapshooting. Whether you’re chasing your first 100 or your 300th, or simply seeking community and wisdom, Sean’s experience and transparency are an invaluable resource — on and off the field.

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For questions or to share your story, reach out to the podcast. And, as always: keep shooting straight, keep tuning in, and take care of yourselves and each other.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back, Trap Talk listeners. I'm your host Zach Nane. We are here in Building 106 at the Grand American 2025, getting ready to shoot on Wednesday. Still the aim grand behind us. I've got my co host Richard Marshall Jr. Here and we've got our longtime friend and multiple episode. Multiple episode. Sean Holly.

[B]

Might have been a couple.

[C]

What is it, like four or five.

[B]

Or something like that?

[A]

Yeah, we just come around. I mean, he knows a few things about.

[B]

I'm kind of surprised you still want to talk to me.

[A]

Every year you've got new stuff, Sean. So the people. The people ask about you. They send us emails. We get like one a year, too.

[B]

At least one or two.

[C]

Hey, can we get a shot on again? Are they coming from Stacy?

[A]

Welcome to season three of Trap Talk.

[C]

Brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Kragoff. Me and Ricky bullshoot him. We both love them.

[C]

Yeah, best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better. Folks, get yourself a Craig off. Your scores will increase.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[C]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds with my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Yeah, the grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[C]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

She doesn't care.

[A]

I like interviewing them so much, I send them in. It's okay, but, you know, how's everything been going for you? How's the shooting year so far?

[B]

Shooting here has been up and down. Last month or so has been pretty decent. First part of the year was kind of dicey, but I just chalk it up to getting old and not seeing as good as I used to see.

[C]

He's got more gray in his goatee.

[B]

I got a lot more gray.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, how many you grew?

[C]

One. You'd have some, too.

[A]

Oh, it'd be bad I could. I can't grow one. I just stay away from facial hair.

[B]

I think you'd look good with a mustache. I can see it. I can see it coming in.

[A]

It's trying to peek its way out, But.

[B]

But one that comes down like this, like a handlebar.

[C]

Oh, yeah, we want to see that.

[A]

Get the handlebar. Get on the Harley.

[B]

The Hulk Hogan one rip.

[A]

He gone.

[B]

But he gone.

[A]

He gone back to the show. What I. What I want to know for you, how many years have you been shooting now?

[B]

What would this be?

[C]

42?

[B]

No, no, no. Yeah, it'd be 44.

[C]

40.

[B]

Yeah. 44 years. Yeah, I know that's a long time. And comes sneaking up on half a million targets, so.

[A]

Half a million.

[B]

You're. You and I are real close.

[C]

I don't know. I haven't even. Yeah, someone asked me that here last year, and I looked, and I don't remember what it was. I think maybe 40 or 50,000. Yeah, something like that.

[B]

I think.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

We're both about the same targets, and I. I looked earlier in the year, and I was like, whoa. I didn't realize I was getting that long in the tooth. Yeah. You know.

[C]

Well, and that's now, so 44 years. Is there any state. Well, how many states are you missing?

[B]

Oh, lots. Lots of them. Yeah. Okay. I mean, there's some states that. That I've, you know, just never. Never been.

[C]

Never gonna.

[B]

Probably never gonna be. Yeah. You know, well, you know, I kind of go to the ones I like. I do try and add a state here and there or a shoot here and there that I haven't been to.

[A]

Something new.

[B]

Something. Something new, exactly.

[C]

You know, we're going to. I think we're going to go to Alaska State shoot next year maybe.

[A]

Sounds like fun.

[C]

Yeah, It. You know what? It's different. And we can do a little fishing.

[A]

Yeah, I want to. I really want to go up north and see those boys in Canada. I want to try that. I don't know which shoot's going to work.

[C]

We missed going to provincials this year, and they. They threw a great shoot shout out to Bo Thomas there. They. They did a great.

[B]

I heard it was great.

[A]

I heard the targets were great. They gave away a bunch of money and trophies and stuff. I mean, it was Canadian money, so you had to chop it in half, but.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

Sorry, Bo.

[C]

Yeah, no, but Bo. And then they put on, you know, B.J. jackman and them, you know, Vern. I think it was a great shoot. Vern Higgs Yeah. You know, up there. But yeah, it would be kind of nice to go to some.

[A]

Some different places, try some stuff out.

[B]

Yeah. From my point of view, there. There are some places, you know, you go to and you feel real comfortable at. And man, you just want to keep going back to them, but then there's other ones that you go to and there's just something about the place and, you know, that just maybe isn't real comfortable for you. And then maybe I don't want to go back to that one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I find for me, though, when I get to one that I'm uncomfortable. That first time I go, I almost want to come back again just to see if I can figure it out, because it's like you just got kicked in the face and you're like, I'm like, I didn't shoot as good as I wanted to. Is it me that sucks or can I actually figure this place out? Because, like, I think the first time I went to Florida, like, it was like a whole, like, oh, yeah. Like I was. Like I was a kid and I. Florida.

[C]

Florida is one of the it. But you've been there.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Twice. You know, I've been there twice.

[C]

Twice. And the first time I did really good. The first time. You did really good.

[A]

The second time made the third time not happen.

[C]

Even Petey goes. Petey goes.

[B]

Can't believe Sean.

[C]

I said, well, Sean could shoot a shotgun. Hey, there are different targets.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's one of those things. It's just like, hey, you just consider it a target and don't worry about it. Oh, 100. And I love shooting in Florida. And it's not just for the shooting. It's the other. There's so much other stuff to do.

[A]

A big seafood guy.

[C]

No.

[B]

Well, I am. And I'll tell you what, those restaurants down at the sponge docks are unbelievable.

[C]

We go to them. Cuz Jody loves.

[A]

I love seafood. I know the biggest thing when I say, hey, Rick, I'm going to seafood tonight. He's like, I'm going to seafood.

[C]

But I'll go.

[A]

He'll go.

[C]

Because Tyler loves it. And Joe, especially if Jody's along. Absolutely. I'll take one for the team all.

[B]

The time for that.

[C]

But the other thing is he won't.

[A]

Take one for me, though, if I want to go to seafood and she's not there, we don't go to seafood. He's like, we're going to Texas Roadhouse.

[B]

And I'm like.

[A]

I'm like, how many cinnamon buns are.

[C]

We Going to have this week, actually in Florida. There was the last time I took. Trey came along. Trey and Tyler and I, Jody then flew down. We never went to a chain restaurant in the 10 or 11 days we were there. We went to all. All good food, mom and pop places, and we drove. Now this year, Joey Charno, shout out to not so Slow Joe, he took us down to this Italian restaurant way south. It was an hour from the club and I looked at this strip mall and I'm like, nah, we went in.

[B]

There, oh, my God, they got the.

[A]

Best food in those. They got the little old lady cooking.

[B]

In the back.

[C]

I'm telling you. And Joey's like, hey, cuz, his buddy Nick lives right by there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he goes, I know it's an hour drive, but he goes, these restaurants down there. And that's one of the biggest things. And that's the nice thing about going to some of these different shoots. But the food, of course. But then, like, Florida. See, I love going to Yankees games, so I always take Jody or Tyler or Trey when Trey comes along, but he married and stuff. Can't come in.

[A]

He's busy working.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. But Tyler and I, we. The one day we shot real quick and I look and I go, hey, we got 30 minutes till the game. And he's like, think we can make it? I said, absolutely, and got on, bought tickets. They were $8.

[B]

Bing.

[C]

Eight bucks.

[B]

We did a game.

[C]

I could afford that. You even.

[A]

Zach, I could have went.

[B]

They didn't invite you?

[A]

No, they didn't want me.

[C]

You weren't there yet.

[B]

That's. That's just.

[A]

It is what it is. I'm only good for.

[C]

That's the cool thing about some of the shoots. And that's why I know next year, like, we want to try to go to Alaska, but we'll see how it works out. Because what I think it could be possibly during Wisconsin. Wisconsin's always a great place to go.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[C]

You know, even though it is out in the middle of nowhere.

[B]

Well, there are some limited options. Yeah. But, you know, do you want the.

[A]

Pork chop or the breaded Pork chop.

[B]

Yeah. Or you might be able to find some catfish.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know. Yeah, but. But no, it's a great place to shoot and we like going there. And the people are friendly and, you know, they throw a good target. I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Their targets are. I mean, Dagan loves their targets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

990 out of a thousand. 990.

[B]

We can get Dagan to go with you up to Alaska and also go to. I'll go to Wisconsin. Hey, go take them.

[C]

Bear watching, whale watching. Bear watching.

[B]

Oh, bear watching. Yes. Yeah.

[C]

And you know the best way to watch.

[B]

I'm sorry, Dagan. The best way to watch those be is to have your buddy with you and you kick him out of the truck.

[A]

Can you run faster than Dag? And that's all I need to know.

[C]

Oh, I can outrun day. I guarantee that. He got big cams with all that run.

[A]

That's what they told me in Alaska. They said, you don't have to outrun the bear.

[B]

You just have to run your buddy. That's right.

[A]

I'm like, oh, Jesus, I ain't going to Alaska.

[B]

We're taking Zach to Alaska because Zach.

[C]

Can'T run with his tour acl.

[A]

Ricky's about to get more shares of Trap Talk.

[C]

Me and John be splitting up.

[B]

Trapped. I'm like, this is horrible.

[A]

I don't like the way this is going. We're gonna get back to the show.

[C]

So.

[A]

So, Sean, you mentioned something. 44 years, you said, you know, 45 years. 45 years.

[B]

No, 44.

[A]

So the producer one is your first register. Did you just look it up?

[B]

Yeah. Is that right? 81 to 81 to 20. 25, which would be 45 years.

[A]

How does that math work?

[B]

Because that. You count the year you shot in, you don't subtract it right. You don't subtract 81 from 2.5. Okay. Okay. 45 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think if you take a one and it goes to a five. That's.

[B]

That's how math was taught to me that you started.

[A]

Maybe next year it'll be. He is the producer. We can't get too bad.

[B]

474. 410 targets.

[A]

How many. How many is Ricky at?

[B]

What's the Ricky have?

[A]

Look his up while we're talking.

[C]

No. 2.

[B]

3.

[C]

9. 9.

[B]

I. I know it.

[A]

So. So I want to ask you. You said that the beginning of the year wasn't what you expected it to be this year. Do you think that.

[B]

No, it was pretty much what I expected it to be. I didn't say that.

[C]

He said like you were looking for excuses.

[B]

I just. I just said I didn't shoot very well the first part of the year.

[A]

So do you think. And we're getting into the technical side of the game, do you think because you're a little older, the eyes are different than they used to be? Do you think that during those seasons where the light isn't ultra premium and it's not over the top of you. Is that what it is? Or is it just you haven't shot a lot or what do you, what do you think is the mixture in the off season in your own.

[B]

I think for me, it's the light. It is the light. I, I, I seem to do better when the light's more over the top.

[A]

You know, because there's a cycle of the year where the sun is more over our head versus coming and sliding.

[B]

Like right now, like right now, the.

[A]

Lights on top and we can see the bird. And what I've seen with some people that get, I mean, this is the same thing me and Bullard have talked about a lot is he's like, man, I shoot. So, you know, RB08, the mustard guy. The mustard guy. He, he has said to me, you know, when I get to June, July, August, the scores go way up. And then, you know, November, December, January, February, it's that side light, that shadow, and it makes that bird.

[C]

That's because he's taking his Geritle more, I think.

[B]

Well, I need to start taking it.

[A]

Centrum.

[B]

I think, I think, I think for me, you know, so much depends on how well I see the target leave the house. And, and so. But there's also some changes I'm trying to make. I'm trying to be a little less aggressive and handicapped because it's not really affecting the thing. Well, maybe a little bit in the doubles, but it's been, not really been affecting the singles so much as it has with the handicap, let's say. And I think being a little less aggressive because my, my whole thing is, you know, see the target make one move and live with it. That's a little harder to do than it used to be.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I think it's because I'm not seeing the target leave the house. I'm trying to be a little less aggressive in the handicap, but it's still pretty aggressive.

[A]

Is it working? So it's, it's advancing well.

[C]

You broke 99 at Iowa, didn't you?

[B]

98.

[C]

98.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I had 98 in Wisconsin. I had 98 in Iowa. The 98. And in Iowa, I missed two on the first post. Yeah.

[A]

So you had a good back 95.

[B]

That was a solid, solid back 90. And the other thing, too, is, you know, you can just tell by the way you're hitting them. Yeah. You know, they're, these are aggressive hits. They're not, they're not, you know, like.

[A]

Eight piece breaks on the bottom. Well, you're Turning the target down.

[B]

Yeah, I'm stopping it.

[A]

You're stopping.

[B]

You know, and that's what I want to try and do. I always want to try and stop the target. And when I'm clicking and clanking and shooting defensively, I guess, like, it's a defensive break. Like, it's like, oh, I didn't make the right move, but we're gonna make that last ditch and try and try and just break. Try and break. Yeah. You know, and now it feels like I'm. Or at least in the last few weeks, it has felt like I'm more in control, but I am taking a little bit more time to identify the target house.

[C]

That's the biggest thing that I've done in the last probably three or four years, is make sure my eyes are ready versus going, say, 10 years ago and just. Yeah, yeah. Because you could do boom and call.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, now it's like, okay, just.

[B]

Well, just wait. It only gets worse. Well, yeah, he's a little younger than I. Yeah.

[C]

What's your prescription, though? Do you wear prescription?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's not bad. Like, but it. But for shooting, like, if I put the. The glasses on, everything clears up out there, but I've got astigmatisms, so it messes with my depth perception.

[C]

Is it both eyes?

[B]

Yeah, but the right one's worse.

[C]

Okay. So I used to have it in both eyes, and it was fine till this year it changed. Or actually, last year, my left eye got a little worse and my right eye got better, which was good. Okay. But it's still astigmatism. Well, now I have zero astigmatism in my right eye. It went away.

[A]

They'll round out.

[C]

And then my left eye got worse. Well, with my script changes your. Well, so now you really got to watch your optical center.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Of your script.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I had one that, you know, is. It's. It's good, but if I turn too far in, it wants to pull my eye back, and it's a weird deal. So that's why I went back to my doctor. I'm like, hey, what in there? Like, well, they're like, you can make that worse. And I'm like, well, because sometimes with my glasses on, I'm like. So I'm actually shooting in a script that's a year old, so I don't have that pull effect. And I just actually look through the. It'll be a little blurry, but if I really focus. But if I get singles, you can.

[B]

Get away with it.

[C]

Doubles you can get away, but the handicap, if I don't, like, make sure I'm right then.

[B]

And that's where I'm at. So, like, I can get away with in singles, I can get away with it in doubles. But yeah, it's the handicap that. And of course, that's what we're all trying to shoot the best at. Well, you know, they all count. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. You know.

[C]

No, but it is the handicaps. What's. Because you take someone like Dagan, right. I mean, Dagan just won the. He won the all around overall at Wisconsin. He won the all around and overall at Iowa, and he just won the all round and overall at the Central Zone. And he broke, I think, 299s at the central Zone handicap at Brittany, missing on the last trap. I think one on the first trap, maybe. And then yesterday.

[B]

So the pressure is finally going to get to it.

[C]

Yeah, it could. We'll see, folks.

[B]

I don't think so.

[C]

No, but. And it's one of the things, though, going back to target setting, because you set targets. What's your speed that you set targets at Myrtle?

[B]

42.7 to start the day. But remember, we're at elevation and it is a little bit different in elevation. So, you know, 42.7 to start the day. They warm up to about 43, 43.2. And that's hitting the bottom of the stake at 5,700ft at nine and a half foot target. Yeah. With no wind.

[C]

See, I think a lot of places anymore are throwing that softer.

[B]

No, they're throwing a 41 and a half at least. I talked to the guys in Iowa. They started them out at 41 and a half and warmed them up to 42, which is what the rule book says. And that's what they're throwing.

[C]

We were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's. I know they're throwing that at mta. I know they're throwing that at Kansas.

[C]

I know they're throwing every 42.5 at Iowa. When we had them checked, well, then.

[B]

They warmed up a little bit more.

[C]

No, that's what they. They set them at.

[B]

So.

[C]

Because I told him, I said, guys, listen, here's the thing. If we're going to set targets, let's set them from trap 1 to trap 100 the same way, in the same height, have a T stake out there, set them and leave them none of this preferential target setting, you know. So we'll see what happens here at the grand this year. That's what I'm kind of interested in, see, because I'm shooting all over. So we'll get to see it if it's happening. Because I don't think.

[A]

I don't think that there's anyone that's sending anything uniform unless it's one person. Like Sean is going to set vernal the same. Because Sean is the one setting it. He is the one setting it. So the problem is, and this is a big problem you have. We had it at the mta. We had zones. This director did this zone. This director did this zone. This director did this zone. Now, you can tell them all you want, this is what I want you to set it on the gun and this is how I want you to set it. But at the end of the day, you've got the human error of that guy's eyeball. Because we're not using a T bar.

[C]

Well, that's what you need to use.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

You said all these marks on the machine and it says. It said that? Well, yeah, that's in still air at this point time of day.

[B]

Yes, but I don't use a T bar.

[C]

I. I think a T bar works though.

[A]

Well, how do you do it on the canyon, though?

[C]

What's that?

[A]

How do you do it on his canyon on the top?

[B]

Oh, you can use a T bar on that? Yeah, yeah, you can. It goes out 30ft.

[A]

Okay. So you could run it.

[B]

But I also know what a good target looks like, so.

[C]

Absolutely. There's a difference.

[B]

And there is a difference. And that's why I hate to see, you know, trap mechanics who don't shoot trap but are very good with mechanical stuff that can work on machines and fix machines and so on. And that's great.

[A]

Mechanical inclined.

[B]

Yeah, but they're not shooters. And yet they're setting targets. Now they know how to turn the wrenches and I mean, more power to them. They probably know a lot more than I do or ever will want to know about how to work on a machine. But they don't shoot. And so when you tell them we need a straightaway from one and a half and four and a half in doubles and they throw something close to a straightaway that to them is a straightaway. It's not a straightaway to you or you or me.

[A]

Because it's off.

[B]

Yeah. But it's to them very close. It's a straightaway.

[A]

It looks straight.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Ish. You know, so. But it's not even that target that's the problem. It's the second target that will be the problem. Right.

[C]

The curling off. And that's the problem I'm seeing this year at certain clubs we've been to is there has been just such a wide variety of targets from one end to the other. You know, I mean, you. You go to Tucson and, you know, it's. You shoot across the banks, whatever. This might be set this way, this might be set that way, you know.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there's been some changes down there, too, and I think. I think the. The direction that they're going is the correct direction. Yeah. You know, and hopefully things will get better, because just going off of the scores in the last few years in Tucson, something needed to change.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Well, they had the. The spring on there.

[B]

Yeah, the steel spring.

[C]

Yeah, the. The steel versus the band, the unit. And I mean, I didn't mind the. The spring, but it. There's more money in the game with the spring.

[B]

Yeah. But it. It messes with your doubles.

[A]

The left target harder and faster than the right target.

[C]

It takes a single target, and instead of going, it's.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it came out of house faster, which is fine, you know, if you.

[A]

Know how to deal with it. It's fine for you.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

It's fine for Sean, maybe.

[C]

I said that because I had a few guys that go, well, this is dumb to go back to the. And I said, well, guys, I'm gonna agree with you because it's gonna. Now there's gonna be higher scores.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What do you mean? I said, the one year at the Autumn Grand, I broke a 96. I'm packing up the camper, I'm heading out, and Amy Jacobs and says, hey, you're high. And I was like, what are you talking about? We were first squad out. And she's like, no, there's, like, the last flights are shooting.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm literally gets. And I'm like, are you kidding?

[A]

I knew that when we shot him. But you were.

[C]

I broke a six. Dennis Briggleson broke a five.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And that. And I was like, what the heck? I was like, okay, well, then I come back, and I won four of the championships that week. Come back to the spring, and I broke an eight in the handicap. And I was like, the target. I thought targets are good. They're. You know, someone's gonna break a nine or whatever, want another four? And I'm like, this is very odd that these are.

[B]

Well, and here's my point, Ricky. And as a. As a shooter, I understand your point. But as a gun club guy.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

My point is, I want A lot of big scores. I want everybody to shoot. I want you to break a 99 and be tied four ways. Oh, yeah, of course I'm not shooting, so that's good. But that's what I'm looking for. Because I want happy shooters coming out.

[A]

Return customers.

[B]

Happy shooters are return customers.

[C]

When you set targets at Vernal, though, your targets are a good target from top to bottom. I mean, there's some people that don't like to.

[B]

Well, the background.

[C]

Well, you. Well, the background, then you get the wind effect. And it's funny, folks. I mean, I've shot at Vernal a lot since I was young and I. I miss. I tend to miss more on the bottom. On the bottom. On the last 50. Can I do the top? Because the top I'm.

[B]

Yeah, and you lighten up when you get to the bottom. Like, I got this thing in the back.

[A]

Well, yeah, because you're really grinding up there on the top of the hill. And then you come down, you're like, okay, I got off.

[B]

And you kind of big time focus.

[C]

You had that little letdown of like. Yeah, exactly. But it is. And that's the one thing, like, you know, during the double, you know, your doubles, you throw them around the bend all, you know, whatever you might draw, you know, trap one and then trap six.

[B]

Yeah. Or track seven.

[C]

Seven, you know, or you draw six and 10 or whatever it might be. And it's just kind of luck of the drone. People are like, well, that's not right. I'm like, guys, that's the fairest way to do it. That's the only way to do it.

[A]

So I want to talk to you, Sean, about what you think about the difference between. Because we just kind of glazed right over all that really quickly, and the spring versus the Uniband. And what it does to a double target, what it does to a single target. In your own words.

[B]

No, I mean, Ricky's right as far as that goes. But like for the doubles, the left target's always going to be faster, even with the Uniband. But it's considerably faster with the spring.

[C]

Four mile an hour faster.

[B]

I think three or four, something like that. And what that does is it spreads them out. There's only two ways to make doubles wider. Okay. One is you have a shorter doubles finger, the curved finger on the bottom of the machine. And the other way is speed. Those are the only two things you can do to make doubles wider or narrower. So if you've got these things going too fast and let's just assume that nobody changes the X finger, the doubles finger on the machine. That doesn't happen. Yeah. Okay. So we have to assume that we're just talking about speed. And so if there's something that's causing the left bird to be faster and that's causing the targets to spread more and you're used to going bang, bang and the target's over here, that can be a problem. Right. So. And granted I've broke hundreds in Tucson when the doubles were really wide. So have you.

[A]

It tears all the other people away that don't know how to make this move and turn because it's more of a turn on that wide pair of doubles and people want to go dink dink. They want to go up, up and shoot these two little fluffy balls in the air. This is a harder target for people.

[B]

To get at 100%. They're tougher. So essentially you're shooting a three hole doubles target or almost a three hole. What, what we would consider back in the old days with the handsets, a three hole target which is almost a straightaway from.

[C]

Straight away, one in five. Yeah.

[B]

You know and you know when we went back to that in 94 and 95, the scores went down. Period. End of discussion.

[C]

Actually, my handicap average went up that year.

[B]

Scores across the country.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But I'm saying for us because. Well, no, everybody, the targets were wider, but in a handicap they're closer to you. You just had to keep the gun moving. And the way Sean and I shoot, it's not going to hurt us. But you are right. When the ATA did that, they, it hurt the, the 99 percenters, which is your, your shooter.

[B]

That's, that's.

[C]

And that's always tell people in every club when they come and say, hey, what do you think of these targets? I'm like, don't ask me. You want to make sure all them can break them?

[B]

Yeah, we want, we want the, the A, B, C, D class shooters to.

[C]

Be able to compete.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And look, hey Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a real quick break and we got to thank Ron Prescott from Mid State Precious Metals for everything they do for the trap shooting community coast to coast for all your gold and silver buying needs. And on top of that new announcement, they're a sponsor of the 126 grand American.

[C]

Finally he said it right, folks. Grand American. Yeah. Ron is a great guy. He's a sponsor of the back fence shootout at Nevada State Shoot and Ohio State Shoot Shoot. And also we got our gold for our Trap talk event at Nevada State shoot and the 77th annual Nevada State Chute. They bought all theirs from it. 680 ounces of silver, to be exact. Folks, you're missing out if you're not there.

[A]

That's a lot of silver. And honestly, if you're not buying from Ron, you're probably overpaying. So whether you're buying it for your gun clubs or your shoots or for your personal use, you got to give them a try because they're big supporters of the trap shooting nation, so it's awesome. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

You know, at the end of the day, the best pointer of the shotgun almost always wins. Yeah. Okay. But we want these guys who maybe can win their class or just have a good day and feel good about their score, you know? And that's what. As a gun club operator, that's what I'm looking for. I want happy shooters, because happy shooters come back. Not only that, they tell their friends. Yeah. So, you know, coming to Vernal is.

[C]

One of the best clubs to shoot at. And this was my. This year was my first year of not shooting. I mean, I was there for other reasons, but, you know, I come here because of Tyler's deal for the US Open and such and then flew in for the funeral. But it was interesting, though. I was talking to people, so I come up to the club, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And everybody's like, oh, you're shooting. I'm like, no. Sean's like, you can borrow my gun. And actually, I. If I'd have known the double, I thought the doubles championship on Sunday, I would have just said, screw it. Let me borrow your gun. That have been bad if I. Bro, I'd be like, can I buy this thing?

[B]

No.

[C]

But it's not for sale. I was talking to every shooter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything ain't gonna be the one that's gonna buy it.

[B]

The price is really high.

[C]

But it was interesting. I did talk to some shooters, and since we're talking about Vernal and about the targets.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We got the new targets. We got the new old.

[C]

The new old. The old. We'll call it the wet. It's called the Western target now. So it was called the Eclipse.

[A]

Give them the rundown on what happened, the change, what you feel, all of that.

[B]

Well, when. When Winchester took over Whiteflyer, what, two years ago. Two years ago, they decided that there would be no more what we always used to call the west coast white flyer, which was the old Eclipse target. What we also call the slot. So we don't have one in here, but as you can see, this is your typical AA target. It says Ricky Marshall on here.

[C]

From the hall of Fame.

[B]

From the hall of Fame. Anyway, you see the dimple domes and you see the, the rounded top. Well, the slot tops have steps on them with slots that come through and there's, there's. I mean, to me it's a better target because there's more flat areas for the round BB to, to hit. I can set those targets a lot better. I had a hard time setting these last year. Yeah.

[C]

Cuz I remember we were there. You were.

[B]

Oh, I was.

[C]

You were struggling and you were like.

[A]

Hey, it kind of looks like our, our, our Trap Talk logo target. There's some slots there, but there's some edges there. But you could see the steps.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And so at any rate, you know, we were told never, never, never ever, ever again will we ever see the slot tops. And I was like, well, I guess we're gonna have to deal with these. And then about a month and a half before the shoot, I got a phone call from, from Bill Daniels and he says, hey, I think we're going to be going back to the slot tops and they're going to be called the white Flyer westerns. And they're only coming, they only come out. So sorry everybody on the east coast, but they're only coming out of Fontana, California. That's the plant out there. And, and so anyway, yeah, the west coast will be shooting those now, but.

[A]

Those slot tops run across the country anyway. A lot of people, it was only there anyway. So it's not like we're dealing with anything that's different. It's completely the same as it's always been. The west coast has had them out of that plant is what it is.

[C]

The high altitude with the thinner air, that target throws better. That slot top, I've shot them at all clubs across the west coast when we had the slot tops and they threw a better target. And I remember last year the really the, the singles, even it was the doubles. You'd always, occasionally you'll get one to fit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But in the singles, I remember watching a squad in front of us shoot last year at the, at the western, the target. And I'm like, that thing went off like 10ft.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

And I'm like, yeah, well, this is odd. So it was almost like throwing a knuckleball because of the dimple. So when they went back that, so this year I was sitting there at the at the table outside, you know, talking with Craig and everybody and just kind of watching people shoot.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it was funny just watching. Then you'd watch in that target and it just straight shoot, come down.

[B]

I was like, that's what we're looking for. That's what we're looking for. You know, so. And you know, I don't know, you know, just watching the targets break.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, you can, you. I mean, you can always dirt roll one from the same in singles or maybe a first shot in doubles.

[C]

You can. In the handicap.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You didn't know.

[B]

No. Last year it was like, yeah, it was. You can break them, but they were breaking in half. They were 10 pieces. This is like a semi smoke ball from the 27 yard line. And. And that's what we really like to see. And so I'm super happy that they're back. And you know, of course, when the truck got there, I, I hurried up and got the truck unloaded, all unloaded and took five cases into the first house I could find and threw them in there and got to shooting them. And it was, it was pretty cool, Like Christmas.

[A]

You're happy, you're like.

[B]

It was like unwrapping. I told, I told Bill Daniels after this shoot, he says, well, what'd you think? I was like, what do you mean, what would I think? I think they're great. And thank you so much for, you know, getting this to happen. Yeah. I said, but I just, I just have one request and that is that nobody else gets these but me. That's a good request. And he was like, yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen. You know, it doesn't hurt to ask.

[A]

Vernal is now the biggest shoot in.

[C]

The country, folks on 12 traps, 20 squads a minute.

[B]

Yeah, they were. Oh, yeah, they were up.

[C]

I went back and looked and stuff. I was on my flight. When I left and flew back here, I had a non stop flight from Delta into St. Louis. And so I was on, you know, comparing scores.

[B]

Yeah. From last year to this year.

[C]

And it was every deal you look.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, because I do that a lot. I'll look at shoots from year to year and go, okay, what, what was different?

[B]

And, well, weather was comparable. Yes. Okay, so we had, we had good weather. Yeah, well, Ricky wasn't there, so, I mean, but you know, we have one really good shooter that wasn't there and scores were.

[C]

So the scores were good and you talk to people and some people didn't even know about it, but Then some did, and they were like, yeah, I'm breaking targets better. But also, too. You maintain your machines?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

You sand the arms every day?

[B]

Every day. Every, sometimes twice a day. Whenever we get in the house to reset a field, we. We sand the arm. Yeah. You know, and, you know, people. People hit me up all the time. Well, God dang it, Shawn, you're gonna wear out the rubber on those things. No, you're not. No, you're not. And I use 80 grit sandpaper. I'm telling you, you will not wear those rubbers out. All you're doing is taking the stuff that's on the rubber off, and now you've got your back to the rubber. So, I mean, I've got arms on those machines that have been there longer than I have. Yeah. And I've never changed them.

[C]

Well, and it's funny you talk about that, because I was at a shoot this year and. And they replaced the machine and got the machine out. And I was looking at the arm and I'm like, yes, sand the arms. Oh, yeah. I'm like. When he's like, well, I use it every day. And I'm looking at him like, that arm looks like it's older than me. And I mean, there was so much residue on it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it was. That was part of the problem. And I went up to it and you could. And I'm like, so.

[B]

So funny story, you know, for down in Tucson when Bill Martin was alive and he would ask me, you know, hey, show these guys, you know, how to sand these arms. You know, the trap mechanics who are also the target set like we were talking about. And so I'm like, yeah, no problem. So I did. I got him. I built him a little sanding block. I use like a two by four and a. Well, no, actually what I use is, you know, the big. Well, you would know, because your dad.

[A]

Painter stick.

[B]

Yeah. But the big one, you know, the five gallon paint stick, the one you.

[A]

Can really whap somebody with.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, you've been.

[A]

I remember those.

[B]

Not enough, obviously. Not enough. And then you, you know, staple on some of this. Some of this 80 grit sandpaper. So I made up one for them and everything and showed them how to do it. I mean, it's like it takes no time at all. Yeah. And so anyway, a couple years go by, and Bill says, sean, he says, these people aren't understanding what you're telling. Would you tell them another time? I'm like, yeah, okay. So we go out and Bill standing right there, and I'M like, okay, guys, look, you guys, you need to sand these arms every time. Change the trap from doubles to singles or singles to doubles or whatever. Change, you know, get in there and give it three whacks on the arm and you're good. And he. Well, we do that. The guy got all defensive, you know. Well, we do that. We do that. I'm like, well, where's your sanding block? And he goes, well, I got, I made a whole bunch of them for everybody. And he pulls out this little sanding block about that big, right? And he pulls it out and he hands it to me, you know, and it had two 20 grit sandpaper on there. And I'm like, what is this? I said, I said sand the arms, don't polish them. Yeah, because that's what they are doing. Yeah. I mean, we're making it slicker. Yeah, we're polishing it. And so they had no spin. So. So at any rate, yeah, it's, it's not hard. It's not rocket science. There are people that disagree.

[C]

I've heard that.

[B]

And they can disagree all they want.

[C]

To keep doing what we do. I've seen the, the results, folks.

[B]

You can feel them when you come.

[C]

To vernal guys, you know, shameless plug for vernal. Yeah, but seriously, you will shoot targets and handicap and break targets and you're like, oh, God, I thought I was shooting singles.

[A]

It's, it's, it's simple. If the target spins more, it's going to pull apart better.

[B]

Yeah, less babies to break it.

[A]

It's, it's centrifugal force.

[C]

It only needs three BB's to break itself apart.

[A]

It's like a blender. It goes and it goes and rips.

[B]

Up and, and you can tell the ones that aren't spinning a lot because you can be right in the middle of that thing. It'll break into 10 pieces as you're punching through it. Yeah.

[A]

All right, Trap Dock listeners, we got to take a real quick break. And I've got something that I'm so excited to announce. Trap Shooting USA has now become the official magazine of the Trap Talk podcast.

[C]

No, it's not only Traption usa, now it's Wing and Clay Life, Lady Outdoor Lifestyles and Clay Shooting usa.

[A]

I'm just really excited because they make such a high quality magazine. I mean, if you guys haven't had these magazines and you actually get to touch them in your hands, they've got really thick paper, they're really glossy, and they keep it really cool. I mean, I just love it.

[C]

The traveling gunsmith. And then in this newest episode, we have. Oh, man, look at, look at those.

[A]

Look at those handsome guys. I love this.

[C]

All right, folks, we need to take a quick second and get to a new show sponsor, Big red Motorsports. Big red, they're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[A]

Now I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by side. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the autumn grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters. They love trap shooting and they're doing a great job.

[C]

Listen, they got can am, Kawasaki cf, Moto Triton trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys.

[A]

All right, Trap talk listeners, we got to take a quick break and we got to welcome a new sponsor to the show. RGS bore stripper. It's a great product. Ricky, tell them how they can find it.

[C]

Go to their website, rgsguncleaner.com you can get the 18 ounce bottle free shipping. 28 ounces bottle and you get the 2 ounces travel bottle and it's free shipping also. Or just get the little 2oz bottle for travel.

[A]

Yeah, they sent me some of this product and I used it on my craig off choke tubes the other day and it got the plastic out like in a minute and it was super cool and super good. So if you like cleaning your gun, you like eliminating plastic and you like shiny bores, give them a try for sure. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

[C]

Yeah, we'd really like to you thank. Thank John Weber, the owner for the support. He's doing an awesome job.

[A]

Yeah, we really want to thank John. We appreciate the support of the show. Anybody that supports trap talk, you guys need to support them and get this stuff because it's awesome. Hey, trap talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay shoot management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[C]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean they've got majority of the satellite grants, majority of the state shoots. I think it's 440 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You could see your squad if they paid. You know, you can see your options. Your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal.

[B]

They're just.

[A]

Ricky knew how much money he made before he even got off the line. He was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I, I know they're, they're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Cole and Lar Cushman, been long time supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance. In literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great, they're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife animals and that such and your guns.

[A]

It's just a great, it's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got those Craig offs. You got to keep them insured. So. Oh, with that being said, let's get.

[C]

Back to the show.

[B]

Yeah. They just don't have anything to, to twist it off.

[C]

Centrifugal force, just. Yeah. And that's the biggest thing. That's what I, I've told guys. Listen, take. And I always said like an 8 to 10 inch block.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And just. And that's all you need to do. But it's got to be 80 grit, 60 grit.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You use a 220 polish.

[B]

You're polishing it. Get some buffing compound in there, you know, get it really shiny.

[C]

We'll throw some curve balls out of this trap machine.

[B]

So, so I'm, I'm talking to Ed Winking, you know, and he, he was our past president and from Utah and everything and, and he was asking me about, you know, sand on these arms. He said, do you think it really matters if you sand those arms? I said, I think it does. Well, I just don't know about that. So anyway, I said, well, you know, if you ever want to really find out, go down into a trap house, none of mine, please. And just rub Vaseline on the arm and tell me how it works out. So I don't think anything of it. It's kind of a joke. He comes back to me like a couple months later, he says, hey, remember when you told me to Put Vaseline on the arm. And I said, yeah. He says, I went to Lee Kay center and did that. He says, I tried Vaseline. He says, oh, you ought to see these things coming out of the house. Oh, yeah, like this. No spin. I mean, they're like knuckle balls. They're bouncing all over the place. And he says, I tried Vaseline. I think he said, WD40, too. And I was like, did you ask them if you could do that? No, probably not.

[A]

Good target sense in that.

[B]

Sorry about you. But the good news is, afterwards, he was like, I understand what you're saying. I believe.

[A]

Well, it's. It's simple. If you think of smoothbore muskets versus rifled muskets. I mean, back in the day, they'd stick a ball down a smooth bore and shoot it. And you couldn't hit that wall from 100 yards. And then you put some rifling on it, and now you're punching holes in paper. Yeah, because it's spinning. It's cutting through the air.

[C]

The best thing to do, folks, is take your machine, set it on straight away, go stand out at the stake, whatever. 45, 50 yards. Okay? Throw a target, try to catch it.

[B]

Oh, don't do that.

[C]

Well, no, you can't when you're out there.

[B]

Yeah. You might cut your hand, though.

[C]

Well, nah, we used to do it, but it. But explains a lot if you got.

[A]

Hit in the head a couple times, too.

[C]

If you sand the arm, though.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And do it. You can. You don't catch, it'll spin right out of your hand.

[B]

It jumps, right. Or, you know, if. If you put a glove on there.

[A]

Michael Jackson.

[C]

Where.

[B]

Where it won't break when it hits the ground. Maybe if it. If it will land in some grass or something, you'll see it spin off.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You know, and they. They. I mean, if they're spinning really good, they're. They're gonna. They're gonna move. Yeah.

[A]

And I've seen it where there's no spin and when they land and they just go pop, and they go, blah, blah.

[C]

You take an old Winchester trap.

[B]

Yeah. And they sanded those.

[C]

They spun, though. They would. I mean, and you could see them hit the ground and zoom. Then they spin off.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, we used to do that. I. I proved that to a club I was teaching at one time, a long time ago, about sand in the arm. And the guy's like, what are you talking about? And I said, well, here. So it was Pat trapped, you know, he said, okay, and we just had to throw a couple targets and he caught one of them. And he's like, what? I'm like, now, hold on. So I went in there and I sanded it and he went boom. And it boom, hit him in the arm. Then it spun off. He's like, oh, okay. And it was just that little difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which then when they started shooting targets, I mean, then the black clouds really started coming out. You figure it out because you're the centrifugal force. Yeah.

[B]

You're putting the hammer on them and they're in there ripping themselves apart.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I do want to talk a little bit about your personal shooting. You know, you said you had a little bit of a rough start at the beginning of the year. And then you've been shooting really well. We just seen you at Iowa and I mean, you came in third place, but you know, what are you attributing your scores to right now? Is it extra focus? Is it just the years of experience? Is it. You're familiar with, the clubs you're shooting? I mean, because you shot. I mean, we had Dagan on top.

[B]

We had.

[A]

Ian Lawrence was your squad mate who came in second, you came in third. And I believe you were, I mean, six or eight targets above the next play. So you shot fantastic.

[C]

Eight, I think you were eight.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Eight targets about me and Glow, I think is what it was.

[A]

So you shot great. It's just because we shot a little third.

[C]

Yeah, you were.

[B]

They shot a lot. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But at any rate. Yeah, no, I just think I'm just taking a little bit more time trying to, Trying to see the target leave the house a little, you know, cleaner and, and in handicap. That's basically it.

[A]

As well as you shot Sean. I mean, you had a fantastic shoot in Iowa. Seeing Dagan and seeing Ian shoot the way they shot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you think about that? I mean, what do you. I mean, as a shooter, are you like, is it the reflexes? Is it, is it.

[C]

I mean, is the age just.

[B]

Well, they're, they're younger, they've got better eyes, they've got better reflexes. They're, you know, they're both cold blooded animals. Nothing.

[A]

Just killers.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and that, I mean, we were there.

[C]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

You know, so I get it. And it is what it is, just.

[A]

Time of the sport.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

It doesn't mean that on any given day, you know, so we all got our chances.

[C]

They're. I mean, what's. Ian's. Same age, I think, isn't he or Ian might be a year older than Degan.

[A]

I think they're the same age. They're both 23.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You know, I mean, Ian's still in junior gold.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, for one more year or.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is, this is last year.

[B]

Last year. Yeah.

[C]

You know.

[B]

Yeah, could still be, but yeah.

[C]

He chose last year to, to come to open.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Now, so you're what, 54?

[B]

I'm 56.

[C]

56.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So you could technically go into something.

[B]

I could. I could.

[C]

Are you going to sub vet?

[B]

I haven't yet.

[C]

When I get. When I hit 55, I'm gonna shoot. Sub bet.

[B]

Yeah. Good reason for me not one year.

[A]

I'm standing on the open team, I just slaughter.

[C]

Ditto. Last year said man goes, I'm going to sub bet. Well, he didn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Dagan. You know, I don't know.

[B]

You know, I just kind of thought about it. I thought I just kind of play it year by year and. And we'll see. I mean, I'm not gonna rule it out.

[C]

It might be something to do.

[A]

You're not ready yet, though?

[B]

You know, it's not yet.

[A]

Will you know, will you know by the time the target year starts if you're gonna flip next year or you think at least a couple more years and open for you?

[B]

I don't know. I really don't think about it too much. It's just. How do I feel when I'm out there? And right now I feel pretty good. I mean, maybe by the end of the grant I won't, you know, but we'll stop it.

[C]

Here I come.

[B]

Here I come. Well, it's one of those deals, you know, like I said, it isn't even about the, the winning or I didn't win a whole lot when, you know, and I shot well in Iowa, but I didn't win a lot because those guys were always, you know, just pounding these.

[C]

I know.

[B]

But I was happy with the way I shot. Yeah. And. And I mean, I felt good about it. Like again, you know, like I was. I felt like I was stopping the target instead of making. Trying to make those last ditch efforts. I was making good moves.

[C]

Well, you're using that shoot like we talked about, the Iowa.

[B]

And.

[C]

And I always used it for years as far as shooting off and stuff. Because anymore, you know, with this all American stuff, the points, it doesn't go with trophies anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So all you gotta do is break a score.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So technically it's. It's a different animal because now I Just break a score and I'm guaranteed to get this many points.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Where before we were. I mean, I remember back in the day, you weren't guaranteed nothing. You had to stand. We stood out in every shoot and shot off for every.

[B]

Every single thing. You know, and at the old grand, remember, they'd shoot everything.

[C]

Everything off.

[B]

Every. Even the pre grand stuff. You're shooting off every night.

[C]

Yeah. We just talked about the podcast yesterday. Talking about longer and stuff. When you and I went 200. In the shoot off.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In the doubles. Next day, you broke 100, I broke 98.

[B]

You got the trophy.

[C]

I didn't get nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, and you. And back then it was like, okay, need to shoot better. Now it's like, oh, they go down five places.

[B]

Yeah. Who cares? Yeah.

[C]

So it's a whole different animal.

[B]

It's a different. The game is different. The motivations are different. I'm not saying it's worse or better. It's just different.

[C]

Well, we use Iowa to practice and is like a pre deal coming to the grand. It's like, okay, are you ready?

[B]

I use it for an act, like, to acclimate to the weather.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

To the humidity, everything. Because over here, where I live, there is no humanity.

[C]

I mean, Iowa was nice this year.

[B]

I was beautiful. I know.

[C]

I showed up one day, I walked outside with shorts on. I was like, yeah, this ain't gonna work.

[B]

No.

[C]

And it came out. And even Justin had a long sleeve shirt on.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he's like, you're wearing pants. I was like, dude.

[B]

Well, honestly, Wisconsin wasn't bad either. No, Wisconsin, Everything was very mild. And then we get here and we just walked into the. The bowels of hell. Yeah. You know.

[A]

It'S a little hot.

[B]

It's a little steamy out there.

[C]

We walked into Zach's world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, this is how I live in St. Louis.

[B]

It's like, oh, it's hot.

[A]

No wonder nobody lives there.

[B]

Right?

[A]

This is how it is.

[C]

Everybody's trying to get out, you know, and that was the thing, you know, always using Iowa to acclimate.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the shoot offs, you know, you get a shoe. Okay, let's stand out here and let's work. Use this.

[B]

Yeah. I can't quite bring myself to do that so much. Yeah, I know. I know I should, but, you know, I just.

[C]

Well, you shot.

[B]

You.

[C]

I mean, you were in the dub. You broke 100. The doubles championship. Yeah.

[B]

Shot. Did that. Made a break.

[A]

And you broke 60 in the shoot off, too. It was. Weren't you 60?

[B]

No, no, no. I went 20. I went 20 and then 19.

[A]

So who was it that made it down to the end?

[B]

I knew Dagan and Ian and Pete Walker and I both missed on the second trap. Yeah. And then he was like, well, let's keep going. I'm like, no.

[A]

How about.

[B]

No. Want to flip? And he goes, no, I don't want to flip. I'm like, well, then it's yours. And he kind of looked at me like, what? I was like, there's no reason to.

[C]

Stand out there and keep shooting. You're both guaranteed a trophy.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

So.

[B]

Well, actually, I wasn't, because it would have. If Dagan had won as the open shooter, then I would have been guaranteed a trophy. So I lost the trophy. I got the points. So it's all good.

[A]

But I don't think another trophy is going to make your day. You got a few of them.

[C]

That 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What? How many was that for you?

[B]

I think two. 284, 285, something like that.

[A]

So we got to get to 300 soon, hopefully.

[B]

Is that where you at?

[C]

I have no idea. I really don't.

[B]

You got to be up there.

[C]

I know I'm somewhere in the twos, but I don't.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was gonna ask and see. To run a list. I know.

[B]

See, some of that stuff's microfish. Yeah.

[C]

I think they need to get those out there.

[B]

Oh, I do, too. I do, too.

[C]

But they don't.

[B]

I mean, there's a lot of reasons why they don't want to do that, and I think they're.

[C]

There are scores.

[B]

Yes, they are. But you know, who controls that? And there's probably some reasons why.

[C]

Yeah, but it's. The shooter scores at the end of the day, our daily fees. We paid our fees. So that information should be readily available.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

To every shooter on any shooter that.

[A]

Ever shot the game.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

If they have the scores.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which they do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think. I think if they can take the time and invest it and then go back and update the website so that everything was at the click of your fingers and be able to see everybody's stuff.

[C]

But that's just today's technology. It's not hard to do, though.

[B]

Shouldn't be. No. But I always thought it was odd that TRAPP and Field is the. Is the official scorekeeper of the ata. Not the ata.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

And I don't understand why that is. Why is it the Trap and Field has all that stuff where the ATA and the ATA Doesn't.

[C]

I thought they did have those.

[B]

That's what I was always told it was trap and field, and that's why they won't release it.

[C]

But the AT owns trap and field now, right? So what's the exact.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

All good questions.

[B]

Things.

[A]

Things we won't fix today, I promise you.

[C]

No, but.

[B]

But we can ask things that make you go. But we do know who's got the most targets, right? So, Sean, you came in at 474, 410. Ricky, you came in at 467. I got the most.

[A]

Got him beat.

[B]

Over 38 years.

[A]

Over 45.

[B]

Yeah. So he's got. He had a couple years.

[A]

How many I got, Sean?

[B]

Yeah. You have 200. John. John.

[C]

That's John.

[B]

I'm Sean. Okay.

[A]

I was thinking Sean.

[B]

It's hot outside. He. Zach's got 251. You child. Huge. Jesus. Those are rookie numbers.

[C]

Rooky numbers. Quarter million.

[B]

As Sean has 45 years in register.

[A]

You have 22 years in registry.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

So about half.

[A]

So I'm halfway there. I'm halfway there and I. I know I'm gonna get my hundred thousandth handicap next year. I know that.

[C]

Next year.

[A]

Next year.

[B]

I think I'm. I'm. You're at 95, 525 in handicap, so you're definitely getting close. And what am I in handicap? Sean, you're at 196,900.

[C]

That's where you got me. Because what am I in handicap?

[B]

182,000.

[A]

Yeah, well, that'll be cool. Next year. I'll get my 100,000. You'll get your 200,000. We'll do it. It'll probably be around the same time, too. Probably right around there.

[B]

Probably right around right now.

[A]

Right around right now.

[B]

Yeah. And we can make.

[A]

We can trap talk. Could pay for that cake. We can get that done. If it's in Iowa, it's probably right at Iowa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. We'll take that on my end. As always, I'm the bad guy. Take it out of Zach.

[C]

That's just how the cookie goes, how.

[A]

The coin flipped, as we learned with Mike Jordan. MIKE Jordan episode. But it. It's all right, folks. We got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ATA White Flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[C]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there, all the reps. You know, Bill Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow, everything they do for the sport and all the shoots. Really appreciate it.

[A]

They're always there. They're always trying to make a better target target. And they're always supporting the game that we love so much. All right, trap talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line. Ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[C]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[A]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved, they're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[C]

Yeah, his dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support and really appreciate it here at trap.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show. It's just amazing to hear all your stories and all your information, Sean. I mean, that's why we continually have you on. But. But I know you wanted to share a little about your personal life and what's gone on in this last year. So you know, what has happened you. And what would you like to share with the listeners today?

[B]

Well, basically it's been about a year and a half now, but I had prostate cancer and had to have my prostate removed. I want to let everybody know, all the trap shooters out there that you know are my age or a little younger or a little older, that you really need to pay attention to that and make sure that you're getting your PSA levels tested and going through the protocols with your doctor. I was very fortunate to have found out early and had the surgery done. Not gonna tell you it was a fun experience. But was able to get that done with very well. No side effects basically at all or long term problems. Super lucky to do that. Now there's still a chance that it can Come back and I have to get tested with my PSA levels every three months, but things are looking good. But, guys, I mean, don't be afraid to go in and get it looked at. Go get the blood test. Do whatever you got to do. It's not the end of the world. So make sure that you're doing that.

[A]

So for you, if you wouldn't have got the blood test, you wouldn't even known to go any further, right?

[B]

No, no, because I had no symptoms, whether it be erectile dysfunction or having to get up in the middle of night to pee or nothing, or pain or blood or anything like that. Everything was completely normal. I went in there, honestly, for a regular checkup, and in the blood work, when you're little, when you're. When you're 50 years old, they start doing PSA tests. Well, mine had gone up three straight years. And the first couple years, the doc was like, it's probably nothing. Don't worry about it. Next year, you know, I was like, it didn't go up that much. But the next year it went up to. It was a. I think it was a four, little over five. And. And he goes, well, you know, we need to start looking a little bit more, you know, thoroughly about this. And so, like, again, not the most fun thing to ever have to do, but you do it and.

[C]

Well. And that's why you missed the. The spring grand that year, wasn't it? Or the autumn.

[B]

It was the spring. Yeah. I had it done February 22nd of. Of 24, and. And then, you know, the recovery on it wasn't terrible. I mean, the first couple weeks is no fun, but after that, it's pretty much smooth sailing.

[C]

And we're. We're glad you're okay. I mean, I know we. We talked.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, because you. You told me and stuff, and I, you know, when we're all friends and when things shared like that, you don't, you know, go blare it to everybody, it's just like, hey, are you okay? You need anything? Yeah, yada, yada, yada. But it is something, folks, that you. You got to check and make sure, because things like this pop up, and the cancer is not a fun deal.

[B]

It's. It's no joke. And mine. And mine was. Mine was on the more aggressive side. And so, you know, and being at the time 53 when it was diagnosed, which was October of 23, and then I didn't have it done until, you know, February of 24. But being younger per se, they were like, yeah, we need to do something about this, because it is a little bit more aggressive, and when you're younger, it, I guess, grows faster, spreads faster, that kind of thing. And they told me that had I been 70 years old, they would have just sat and watched it. Yeah. You know, and, And, And. And treated it appropriately that way. But because I was younger, even if you could call 53 younger for that disease, it is so. But the scary part is I've talked to, you know, a lot of. A lot of the shooters know that this has happened, and I. I get people coming up to me all the time, hey, what was your psa? What was your psa? And I tell them, and then they tell me what theirs is, and I'm like, what are you doing?

[A]

Go to the doctor.

[B]

Well, no, they've. They. They have been to the doctor, and their PSA is double or way over double what mine was, really. And they're not doing anything about it. And they're like, I just don't know. You've got it.

[C]

You never. Yeah, you go to another doctor.

[B]

Yeah. You need to get this thing figured out.

[A]

This is a public service announcement.

[B]

No, seriously, it is.

[C]

No, it is.

[A]

And then you got to get it done. I mean, it's no joke, because once it gets past a point, then you're done. I mean, yeah, if.

[B]

When it spreads and it metastasizes from what they told me, there's no cure, they can manage it and keep you alive.

[C]

A lot of these cancers are scary.

[B]

But it's a downward spiral at some point. That's why I didn't mess around with it. I was just like, no. They gave me some options of what to do, and I said, no, I don't want this in my body. Get it out. I want it gone. And so it's gone, and we move.

[C]

On, you know, and we're glad to hear you're good. And, you know, you're clean. Right now.

[B]

I'm clean. I got. I. I go in right after the grand, get another blood test. And, and, and so. But yeah, no, everything's.

[A]

So what's the recommendation on blood test? Is it every six months? Every year? No, I mean, what now?

[B]

I think it depends on your. Where you're at, you know, I'm sure it is. You know, my. Mine was not that high. It was. It was a five.

[C]

Your PSA was five.

[B]

It was five. Or a little over five, but right around five. And so. But when they did the. When they did the biopsy, like I was telling you off camera that they do 12 plugs out of it. And one third of one of those plugs had cancer. So what if that one hadn't picked it up? And I know a guy who's had two rounds of biopsies and they have not found it. And his PSA is like 14.

[A]

Oh, and does that mean he has. Or does that mean that. That he doesn't have it and he's just got a high psa? We don't know. I mean, they don't know.

[B]

The doctor says you have cancer, but we can't find it.

[A]

And somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, that's what he told me, what his doctor told him.

[A]

Because if you don't know where it's at, can't you just get rid of it?

[C]

What about just saying, okay, just remove it?

[B]

Will the insurance cover it? I don't know. Okay, now that they have different options, you know, you can have the radiation done, you can have the radioactive plugs put. Or seeds put in, you know, and, you know, at the end of the day, it's still there. So I was like, no, let's get rid of it. So at any rate, just don't mess around with it. If there's any question, talk to your doctor, make a plan, you know.

[C]

Well, we appreciate you talking about.

[A]

Thanks for sharing that personal, not a trap talk. Related, really.

[B]

Well, it kind of is because I get to keep. I get to keep shooting trap. And what if. What if I hadn't. Maybe. Maybe I at some point wouldn't be able to shoot trap anymore. So. Yeah, I mean, keep you healthy as long as you can. And we're all. None of us are making this out of this thing a lot.

[A]

Yeah, the average, average age of trap shooter is in the zone where you.

[B]

Might need to get the. Hello.

[C]

Yeah, that's why I'm starting to lose weight. I'm gonna get skinnier in Zach.

[B]

You will. Almost there.

[A]

I already told you, you lost a sub Junior. It was a California Sub Junior, but.

[C]

It'S still a sub Junior.

[B]

I mean, it's gone, but you're doing good.

[A]

We're proud of you. You're doing good. But so. So, Sean, I mean, people love to get technical with you because you've got so much knowledge. Are there things. I mean, going into the grand this week, people are gonna listen. This show, it's gonna be the grand's over. But are there things that you would recommend shooters should be doing on the practice trap or techniques that you've implemented in your game that you think are like, hey, this is something we really need to talk about today.

[B]

No, I. You know, honestly, my idea of practicing is. Is practicing, like, I. Like it was an event, like, could be. You know, I'm not into doing drills or anything like that. I always practiced, like, when. Still do. When I do practice, like, it was like an event, you know, so perfect practice, hopefully.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not. You're not trying all of these things. You're just trying to do.

[C]

You're not going to shoot on one station.

[B]

I already know what it takes to break a target now I just want to be able to repeat that every time. Absolutely. So. So, yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm not going to set the machine on a specific target because that's a false kind of lead. Right. I mean, if you're. If you're having a hard time with hard rights, is that because. And. And then all of a sudden you. You set it on hard rights and you all of a sudden you compound them. But, you know, you're not going to get anything going this way. You know? You know, you know, everything's going to be going to the right. So is that giving you a false sense of security? And then when you go back to the machine oscillating, are we going to have a problem with that hard?

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because now you're already ingrained in making that move. You're maybe moving in that direction, and the anticipation breaks that drill down.

[C]

That's why when I do drills with people and stuff, or have do drills, I tell them to have someone hand pull it. Oh, then the guns.

[B]

You got to hold the gun.

[C]

That's right. And that's the only way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So backing that up, holding the gun still is an important thing.

[B]

Oh, really? I would think.

[A]

No, I'm asking a question.

[B]

I. I would think so, yeah. Is that something we have trouble with?

[C]

Well, I mean, Zach, I did watch you in the single shoot off in Iowa. Hey, the trophy, though.

[A]

Check it out, folks. I finally got one.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But, yeah, but hey, you know what? It's not like your big old cup, but the budgets are cut down. I was doing the best they can, you know.

[C]

I thought you had that made.

[A]

No, no, no. If I had it made, it'd be.

[B]

Bigger than this wall.

[C]

You know, we get an expensive tractor.

[A]

I need some money for the budget. It's going to say Zach's win over Ricky, and it's going to be about as big as a car.

[C]

We need it.

[A]

We need it, John. Work it out. So is there anything that you're specifically working on? This grand for you, for your personal goals or for any. Is there any.

[B]

Break as many targets, Kill as many.

[A]

Of them as you can.

[B]

Kill them all.

[C]

You know, target management. Go out and break everyone you can.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't do stuff like that, Zach. I mean, you know, and you guys don't really do that either, I don't think. I mean, you guys, you know how to break the targets. Just go break them, right, and be efficient. And the one thing I would say, as hot as it is, we all better be drinking some water.

[A]

A lot of water.

[C]

Stay out of the beer.

[B]

Well, crazy.

[C]

But, Sean, you stay out of the beer. Mike Jackson, my squad mate, Jason Krausey.

[A]

Some things we can't get.

[C]

Yeah, I know them guys. Them guys, they hydrate on Coors Light and Bush Light.

[B]

I think, you know, just Gatorades and. Or that. What's that liquid IV that you put in your water?

[C]

Any. Yeah, anything to stay hydrated. You know, we got Project one. Hydration stuff that really works. You know, there's just water, but, yeah, you got to stay hydrated.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's good for sure. And this is gonna. I feel like this is gonna be a hot one. You know, every once in a while, there's been some cool years at the ground that aren't like, they're hot, but they're like the cooler years. We're like, okay, this wasn't bad. This one, I feel like, is gonna just blister some people.

[B]

Well, I'm glad the kids are out there shooting today because, you know, if it was all us old guys out there, not you, but us, you know, we'd be having a hard time. It's pretty warm.

[C]

Trust me. I went and played 18 holes of golf this morning, and it was hot.

[A]

Yeah, it's a little warm out there, folks. And just be careful. Have, you know, cold water in your bag. You know, if you're sugar sensitive, make sure you have something in your bag to eat on, because it's taking a lot out of you. I know a lot of people have those. What do they call them, Those cooley towels or whatever that absorb the ice cold water and they stay and they don't drip on you, and they bandanas around their neck and everything like that. If you've got them and you can have them out there in between boxes, I think do everything you can to kind of cool yourself down a little bit.

[C]

I think I'm gonna take. Mike Jackson has these Milwaukee fans. It doesn't say anything. We can't have a fan in front of us, does it?

[B]

No, but, you know, let's go a little deeper than that. Rick, you know what I was thinking? You remember like the squatting room in Vernal? Yeah. Okay, so we had these little air conditioning units. Yeah, okay. And they're not super big. And they've got a hose that comes out and shoots hot. Hot air out of one side and cold air out of the other. I'm just thinking, if we had that hose, you know, run it up, maybe your pant leg or something like that, you know, keep you cool.

[A]

What would the cost do to targets if we had ACs on every trap? With five hoses, we can just hook up. I mean, I'm in, but I think we're going to be like $110 an.

[C]

Event that's covered by Team Nini.

[B]

Oh, well, okay. So you got your. You got your little Honda generator.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Little gas.

[B]

Start that thing up. It's. It's burning in the background.

[C]

These Milwaukee fans and when we were at Wisconsin went in, it got real hot.

[B]

Those are battery operated.

[C]

Yeah, I know. I was like, man, this would be bad.

[A]

The hardest part of that is going to be picking it up and moving it.

[B]

Everything I got.

[C]

No problem. No problem. You're like, I am. Put it on a skateboard.

[B]

If. If the squad was on. On board. Everybody's got one.

[C]

Just buy five.

[B]

Just bring out five and leave them.

[A]

Hey, I like that. You know, that's not.

[C]

Don't watch our squad.

[A]

Not a bad idea.

[B]

Just don't leave them on that track.

[C]

And go to the next one. I sure hope.

[A]

Because you won't get them back. Fans out there after this episode, a bunch of guys like, that's a great idea. The whole squad's got their matching shoes.

[C]

Milwaukee, if you're listening. Yeah, we do accept sponsorships.

[B]

We're expecting.

[A]

We're expecting some cash on this deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Some quiche.

[A]

Well, Sean, you know, it's always great to have you in every year. We want to talk to you and hear what's going on. And, you know, it sounds like Vernal's doing better than ever. It sounds like the target change was a big. A big improvement, a big plus. You know, your health is doing a lot better. You're shooting great. You're on your way to 300, 300 hundreds and doubles, which I'm sure maybe we'll see that next year. Or the year.

[B]

I mean, we'll see. It's coming.

[A]

It's coming soon. So I think that'll be something where we. We'll have another episode and talk about the 300 and just go right into doubles and talk about that, because people love talking doubles with you. And then your what, next year's gonna be 200,000 handicap.

[B]

Yeah. And you're 100,000. Yeah.

[A]

So we'll get the cake.

[C]

So you heard it here first.

[A]

Maybe we'll have a celebration. If it's here at the grand, we're definitely doing a cake. We'll do videos and stuff. And Ricky doesn't have to pay for the cake.

[C]

And I'm gonna pop the cake in his face.

[B]

We'll split it. How's that?

[A]

Anything you put in my face, I'm putting in yours. Just remember that.

[C]

That's just gonna.

[A]

You're not gonna like it.

[B]

So.

[A]

So that being said, we appreciate you coming in. Tune in next Friday. Thanks for listening. Keep supporting us, like Share. Subscribe. We love you wearing the hats with the shooter towels.

[C]

Clinker's gonna have a website coming up to have the merch on online stores. That's right.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

You heard it here first. You heard it here first.

[A]

Keep shooting straight, Keep tuning in, and don't forget to send your questions to. To John. He's the greatest producer of all time. He gets us the information and then we talk about it, which is pretty easy. So thank you so much, and we'll see you next Friday.

[C]

Good luck, everyone.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank one of our show sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch, Jonesburg, Missouri.

[B]

Rick and Carla Burke.

[A]

Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[C]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I can do some hunting with you guys and come to your the annual clay shoot in August right after the Grand.

[A]

It's a lot of fun. It's the Optimist Club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot, they put it on, and it's wonderful. I think last year they had over 100. 100 entries into it, and it's just a good time. And the Trap Talk podcast is brought to you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Financial. We believe in putting people first.