The Details That Separate Good Shooters from Great Ones - Trap Talk Ep. 146

Summary

Trap Talk From The Back Fence – Episode 146: “The Details That Separate Good Shooters from Great Ones”
Date: October 17, 2025
Hosts: Zach Nanini (“Zach”) & Richard Marshall Jr. (“Ricky”)

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode dives deep into the subtle but crucial details that set great trap shooters apart from the good ones. Hosts Zach Nanini and legendary co-host Richard “Ricky” Marshall Jr. talk practical advice on gear, lens selection, adapting to challenging conditions, mental management, and the mindset required for peak trap performance. Drawing on their own successes, teaching experience, and observations at major shoots, they offer valuable insights for shooters at every level.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Lighting and Lens Color

Timestamps: [04:32]–[12:45], [16:14]–[23:52]

• Seasonal Light Shifts:
  • Zach mentions how fall and spring often bring lighting challenges for shooters, particularly shadows and glare ([04:32]).
  • Ricky emphasizes how critical it is to choose the right lens color to adapt:

    “Lens color, that's what I… try to tell everybody is really find that lens that's going to work for your eyes with the lighting.” ([05:23])

• Lens and Eye Pigmentation:
  • The hosts discuss how shooters with lighter-colored eyes (blue, hazel, green) tend to be more sensitive to light and may need different lens options compared to those with darker eyes ([06:53]).
  • Ricky recommends not overcomplicating things:

    “Right now I use bronze, pink and clear... as far as trap, I'm using that bronze or, or the pink and that, that's what I use every time.” ([08:18])

  • Both agree it’s better to have a few up-to-date prescription lenses that work well than a bunch of outdated ones ([15:12]).
• Matching Lens Color to Conditions:
  • Zach notes his preference for “orange tone” lenses, but Ricky describes falling in love with bronze and pink, especially in low light and desert conditions ([09:08]).
  • As light changes, so should lens selection. Comfort and visual clarity trump all.

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2. Weather, Target Presentation & Shooting Consistency

Timestamps: [10:56]–[14:40], [31:24]–[40:11]

• Shooting in Changing/Marginal Conditions:
  • Even on “perfect weather” days, the angle of autumn sunlight can glare targets or cast difficult shadows. “The angle at which the sun is coming in in October… is causing people, a little bit older, I would say, to have a little bit more issues with seeing the birds.” — Zach ([10:56])
  • Performance often shifts depending on who handles these changing conditions best:

    “If we look across the scores... the people that seem to shoot the very best at the fall handicap were the younger eyes.” — Zach ([10:56])

• Adapting to Variability:
  • Shooters should learn to break targets in ANY conditions, not just when they’re “in the window,” noting the importance of visual recognition and flexibly picking targets out.

    “When birds are crazy, what I tell everybody is just go back to the basics. Don’t try to do something… just pick them out.” — Ricky ([38:39])

• Pointing Ability vs. Method Shooters:
  • Zach draws a line between “fair weather shooters” and “all condition shooters,” stressing that handling variants (high, low, fast, slow birds) is key to greatness ([35:14]–[38:39]).

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3. Break Points, Timing & Visual Connection

Timestamps: [18:44]–[23:52], [31:24]–[34:29]

• Shooting When You See the Target:
  • Ricky insists there’s no single correct break point:

    “So for me, I just keep everything the same. No matter the time of year or the gun club I'm shooting at, I just, when I see that target, I make my move on the line and, and shoot it.” ([19:09])

• Comparing Fast & Slow Shooters:
  • The hosts compare legends Britt Robinson and Joey Cerniglia—one fast off hand pulls, the other off voice releases—underlining that each style can work at the top if shooters trust their process ([21:17]–[22:59]).
• Critical Visual Connection:
  • Ricky demonstrates to students the importance of truly “locking your eyes” on the first target, especially in doubles, showing that failing to do so inevitably means a miss ([31:24]).

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4. Mental Management, Confidence, and Target Management

Timestamps: [23:52]–[30:17], [47:14]–[54:06]

• Emotional Regulation After Misses:
  • Both hosts discuss how one miss can “breed” others, especially if shooters succumb to frustration or over-analyze instead of focusing on “seeing the bird well” for the next shot ([24:47]).

    “Misses breed misses and hits breed hits. If you smoke… a target… the confidence is going to go up.” — Zach ([28:35])

• Setting Achievable Goals:
  • Ricky preaches goal setting and incremental improvement, noting that “everybody could be a world champion. It's what you put into it…” ([40:53])
• Competition Mindset:
  • It’s important to finish, not defend a score:

    “You can't defensively put scores on the board... your hands are going to slow down, your body's going to slow down, you're going to stop, you're going to jump, you're going to pop your head off the gun because you made that perfect look.” ([51:37])

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5. Gear, Gunfit & Adaptation Over Time

Timestamps: [47:14]–[55:15]

• Gunfit and Physical Change:
  • Proper gun fit is vital; adjustable combs are recommended, especially as shooters’ faces and bodies change.

    “Make sure, you know, I believe everybody should have an adjustable comb their gun, you know, and so we can properly fit the gun…” — Ricky ([53:47])

• No Micro-Adjustments for Lighting:
  • Ricky keeps his eye and barrel hold points constant regardless of season or age:

    “If it’s working, why change it?... My eyes are this much above the… barrel, but I look through the beads” ([48:29])

  • The trick is eyes always move first:

    “Your eyes are always going to get to the target before the barrel does. Because if not, then you’re aiming.” — Ricky ([49:34])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Comfort is different for everyone. There's a different level of lighting options and changes for someone with dark eyes like myself versus someone with really light eyes.” — Zach ([06:53])
• “If you're not walking onto that bird and you don't see that… that target is coming out of that zone a lot faster… you’re going to think, ‘Oh yeah, I'm going to shoot it kind of where it was last time’…” — Zach ([32:12])
• “You want to shoot targets where they're at, not where they're supposed to be.” — Ricky ([32:41])
• “It's what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it.” — Ricky ([40:53])
• “This game is a game that is shot best on the edge of reckless abandon… you’re… redlining. You're not blowing up the engine, but you're humming.” — Zach ([51:19])
• “I think people would generally break more scores if they got out of their own way… The confidence, the trust that we built up in that confidence, right?” — Zach ([50:47])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Upcoming state shoots/Travel/Program highlights | [00:30]–[03:39]| | Lighting, Lenses, and Target Visibility | [04:32]–[12:45]| | Handling fall/spring light and eye pigmentation | [06:53]–[09:46]| | Weather/light at the MO Fall Handicap | [10:56]–[12:45]| | Lens choice—quality vs. quantity | [14:40]–[16:14]| | Visual connection, timing, and break points | [18:44]–[23:52]| | Emotional resilience, “target management” | [23:52]–[30:17]| | Shooting variable/erratic targets | [31:24]–[38:39]| | AAA-27-AAA achievement and its meaning | [41:04]–[44:35]| | Gun fit, body changes, eye-barrel position | [47:14]–[55:15]|

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Final Takeaways

• Lens selection is personal and critical: Base it on your specific eyes and conditions, and always prioritize seeing the target comfortably.
• Adaptability sets great shooters apart: Learn to break all types of targets in all conditions—don’t just wait for perfect birds.
• Trust your eyes and stay mentally resilient: Don’t overthink after a miss; reset, focus, and keep executing your process.
• Proper gun fit grows with you: Adjust as your body changes, and revisit fit more often than most shooters think.
• You break targets where you see them best—not where the “perfect” spot is.

Whether you’re gunning for AAA-27-AAA or just trying to bump up your score, this episode is full of hard-won advice, real-life stories, and the kind of tough love that helps shooters get to the next level.

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Next Steps, Listener Reminders

• Tune in next week for more interviews and deep-dive topics.
• If you’re heading to the Nevada State Shoot, say hi to Zach and Ricky!
• Share the show, send in questions, and bring a friend to the range.

“Bring out a new shooter, bring them out, get them involved… That’s the only way we’re gonna grow the sport.” — Zach ([57:25])

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Happy Friday, and good luck on the line!

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back Trap Talk listeners. I'm your host, Zach Nanini and I'm here with the one and only legendary Richard Marshall Jr. My co host. Welcome to the show, Ricky.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

You know, Happy Friday. I know it's not Friday, but as the listeners are listening, it's Friday. And that's the power of television and YouTube, right Ricky?

[B]

That's the power of the Internet and social media.

[A]

We just, we put it out whenever we want to put it out. How have you been? You've been good? You've been good, You've been teaching, you've been traveling, you've been shooting? What, what's going on?

[B]

Yeah, if you don't recall, we just came from the Missouri Fall Handicap.

[A]

I recall. I just.

[B]

You do?

[A]

People would want to know. So you were there.

[B]

But yeah, just busy teaching. Haven't shot since the heartland, so been teaching non stop pretty much and getting ready. Actually heading to Kentucky to the Bourbon Trail with some friends this week. So I'll be down there and then as soon as I get back I'm heading to Wisconsin to teach and then I'll get back from Wisconsin and what do we got, like three or four days and then heading to Lost Wages, Nevada State shoot.

[A]

You know, I'm really excited to go out there. I've, I've been to Vegas before many times, obviously shot places there, but I've never shot the, the state shoot. So this is going to Clark County. Yeah, this is going to be my first one out there and I know John's worked really hard with this team of people on throwing a really great state shoot. I've heard from a lot of people that it's one of the best state shoots in the country. Attendance is obviously going way up. And then we're doing the, the, we've got the, the back fence shoot out there and then we've got the, the gold and silver giveaway. The trap talk.

[B]

The trap talk shootout.

[A]

So I mean that's going to be a lot of fun and, and you know, potentially some gambling somewhere in there between maybe a buffet, you know, I don't know. We'll see.

[B]

You know it's funny is. So I'm, I'm bringing the camper out there now. I was going to fly and stay at Airbnb and stuff but I'm going to hit there and then go to Tucson and teach and shoot a little bit of the pre autumn grand, but I have yet at the state shoot. I think once I've gambled during the state shoot, literally like been to the casino. I just. You. When you stay there, it's nice you're there. They. They feed you. Every night, we. We got events going on every night, folks. So if you can come to Nevada State. Shoot.

[A]

I mean, I. I also was excited that John told me, and there's things that I just didn't know about the program because God forbid I read a program, right? Like, we.

[B]

Yeah, you never do.

[A]

I mean, sometimes I do. But nowadays, like when you go to the same shoot every year, you're like, oh, it's the same shoot. You just show up and you bring your ammo and you go. But since I haven't gone, I look through the program. I'm like, man, they've got that big old WWE buckle they're giving away to the whole thing. They've got all these silver shootouts. They've got all. All these added trophies. They got buckles in all the main events. I mean, it's kind of. It's just. It's impressive what they've done for it. Well, that's enough plugging of Nevada. What we want to get to today is we want to get into some old school trap talk content, informational content that people can use and. And develop and. And. And move their game in a forward direction. So. So we're going to ask Ricky some questions today and kind of dive into his brain of what he thinks and what's going on. Welcome to season three of trap talk.

[B]

Brought to you by Craig off, the choice of champions.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig off. Me and Ricky both shoot them. We both love them.

[B]

Yeah. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better. Folks. Get yourself a Craig up. Your scores will increase.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always working to get a little bit better, and they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[B]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get a hold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter.

[A]

With that winning stock.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Yeah, the grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[B]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings with that.

[A]

Being said, let's get back to the show. One question that I've been getting a lot lately, everybody's been bringing up to me as they're saying, zach, it's the fall now. It's turned into the fall. And usually in the fall and the spring, my scores go to absolute crap. So, you know, what is your opinion on the shift of light change from the, from the summertime when, when the sun is right over our head versus in the fall time when we're shooting in the shadows? And what do you do as a shooter that's been shooting for so many years? And obviously you're getting, you're aging like a fine wine, but you're getting a.

[B]

Little bit older and the eyes agent, like, fine. You're a dick.

[A]

The eyes are, the eyes are a little different now than they were when they were my age. So. So as someone that's, that's aging very well, how do you, how do you cope with those differences in lighting?

[B]

You know, personally, lens color, that's what I, I try to tell everybody is really find that lens that's going to work for your eyes with the lighting. I mean, and here's one thing, you know, as you can recall, you know, Mike Reinert, who used to, you know, on post four, and he sponsored both of us, and Mike was a great guy and very, very knowledgeable on lens colors and everything. And, you know, Mike always said, you know, have your eyes calm and, you know, so sometimes a darker lens isn't a bad thing. And, and I wasn't keen to that, you know, at all. And he made me some bronze lenses and I was like, yeah, I don't know about this, you know, and, but I, I tried him and God, I fell in love with them. But as we get into when there is lower light or even some days if it's just that weird twilight, it's almost like during the day with that. Or it's a. It's kind of like, I'll say, a little bit foggy, misty kind of look. I use my, my pink rose, they're called, you know, pink lenses. That's what I use. And I shot with them, actually, every event at the Grand.

[A]

And that's so important to have the right color, I mean, with whatever brand of glasses you're wearing. And I think, you know, we just skirted over a lot of great information there. But like you said, with what Mike said, the eyes have to be comfortable. So.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So comfort is different for everyone. There's a different level of lighting options and changes for someone with dark eyes like myself versus someone with really light eyes. And what I found, and a lot of people don't even understand or think about this is eye pigmentation makes a difference for light sensitivity. If you have really, really light colored eyes, you know, blue eyes or, or gray eyes or something that's very, very light, you're probably, I mean, I'm not going to say every time, but probably going to be a lot more light sensitive than Zach Denini that's got these dark brown eyes. You know, my eyes, I don't have a lot of light sensitivity. I'm usually using a lot lighter lenses than most people because if I don't get enough light in my eyes, they don't work. They just don't.

[B]

Well, I'm the same way. Yeah, I'm the same way. I've got brown eyes. You know, you take, you know, my wife Jody, hers are hazel. So, you know, the lighter lenses can tend to hurt people. Like you said, the blue eyes, the hazel eyes, even green eyes, you know.

[A]

And to the point that they get a headache.

[B]

Yes. And that's why I always say is, you know, really look at, you know, your lens color choices now. You know, I just did a group lesson with, with a bunch of kids and most of them are all wearing Pilas, you know, and, you know, pilas are, they make so many different lenses.

[A]

So many, you know, that it, it.

[B]

Could be a little overwhelming. Crazy and overwhelming on trying to pick out the correct lens. But like right now I use bronze, pink and clear. I, I do have a light target orange that I'll use to shoot some sporting clays and stuff with. But as far as trap, I'm using that bronze or, or the pink and that, that's what I use every time.

[A]

And so, so total lenses in your bag, you would say four or five total choices maximum. Is that what you have?

[B]

Three. Three.

[A]

So, so you have the clear for nighttime shoot off. You have that pink. That's kind of your everyday lens that you're go to your baby and then.

[B]

And the bronze, both of them, when.

[A]

The weather's permitting, bronze.

[B]

I tell you where I really love to shoot bronze at is Tucson.

[A]

Tucson. And that's where I was introduced to that lens the first time is. He said, shoot here with this. And I'm like, man, I haven't taken out these target orange medium target oranges in forever. And because I was always, I've always. I know you gravitate towards the pink, but for whatever reason, my eyes gravitate towards the orange. And I just seem to see the target pop a little bit better with the orange tone lens. And.

[B]

Well, I thought that. I thought that. And that Mike's one that actually got me switched to the pink because he said that pink with brown eyes will help you with that orange target. So you got to maybe try a pink. And, you know, your scores might go.

[A]

Up a little bit.

[B]

They needed a little help last week.

[A]

I'll take anything I can get, baby.

[B]

But.

[A]

But, you know, and circling back to last week at the fall handicap. The fall handicap, without getting into details or recapping the shoot, let's just talk weather and light, because that's what we're on right now. Weather and light. The weather was absolutely perfect for October in Missouri. I mean, you know, you get to the point where it could be really cold. You could have a lot of cloud cover. It can be kind of a hard shoot to have fun at. And I've had that before. We've gone to the fall handicap, and you're like, cold and jeans and rain and like, all these other things. But this year was one of those years where I was literally like, oh, my God, this is the greatest weather. Like, this is the perfect shoot this week. And. And everyone said, well, there's a lot of light because it was Sunny. It was 75, 80 degrees. There wasn't a lot of cloud. But even though the sun was not covered by cloud cover, a lot of people were complaining to me and say, do you feel like there's a glare on the bird? Do you feel like it's harder to see? And the only thing that I could think of is the angle at which the sun is coming in in October versus the angle, you know, in. In. In May or August.

[B]

Yeah, because it's changed a little bit.

[A]

It's changing and it's causing people a little bit older, I would say, to have a little bit more issues with seeing the birds. And if we look across the scores, without getting into that today, if we look across the scores, the people that seem to shoot the very best at the fall handicap were the younger eyes, the younger. The, you know, the young shooter. I mean, shout out to Tyler, he broke that hundred. And the doubles on Saturday or on Sunday, wasn't. It wasn't necessarily, you know, an easy day, but the light was a little bit, you know, shadowy. Especially those morning doubles, you have that glare coming in from the side, and it's just like you. If you're not really, really careful, you can definitely miss a first bird or miss a pair just because you're looking in those shadows and you're like pulled out of the gun. And I. Yeah, you and me both have experienced that before. You're like, holy crap. It just kind of yanks you out of your gun because you're like, I. I can't see the bird.

[B]

Yeah, no, that is correct. I mean, yeah, he. He had the lone 100 in the doubles there, and I think there was a loan 99 what I saw because I was teaching and I got a text from mama and all it said was hundred. And I was like, hundred.

[A]

I was like, damn, got that last money, baby.

[B]

I said, baby, got some Lewis money. So. But, you know, Ditto shot lights out over there, you know, and in his age. But Ditto did switch to new glasses, inserts. Yeah. New lenses and stuff. So his handicap scores, you know, heck, he broke 100 one day and stuff. But yeah, I. I tell you, you really just for everybody out there is really look at lenses in the colors and the targets. And why I say that is you got to realize every time you stick a shell in the gun, you. You're. You're spending, with all your expenses, two, three dollars a shell, easily.

[A]

All right, Trap Dock listeners, we got to take a real quick break. And I've got something that I'm so excited to announce. Trap Shooting USA has now become the official magazine of the trap talk podcast.

[B]

No, it's not only Trap Shooting usa, now it's Winging Clay Life, Lady Outdoor Lifestyles and Clay Shooting usa.

[A]

I'm just really excited because they make such a high quality magazine. I mean, if you guys haven't had these magazines and you actually get to touch them in your hands, they've got really thick paper, they're really glossy, and they keep it really cool. I mean, I just love it.

[B]

The traveling gunsmith. And then in this newest episode, we have.

[A]

Oh, man, look at. Look at those. Look at those handsome guys. I love this. I love it. I love it.

[B]

All right, folks, we need to take a quick second and get to a new show sponsor, Big Red Motorsports. Big Red. They're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[A]

Now, I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the Autumn Grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters. They love trap shooting, and they're doing a great job.

[B]

Listen, they got Can Am, Kawasaki cf, Moto Triton trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys. With that being said, let's get to the show.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank one of our show sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch, Jonesburg, Missouri. Rick and Carla Burke. Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[B]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I can do some hunting with you guys and come to your the annual clay shoot in August right after the grand.

[A]

It's a lot of fun. It's the optimist club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot. They put it on, and it's wonderful. I think last year they had over 100, 100 entries into it. And it's just a good time. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

You know, so the cost of getting new lenses, if they're prescription, they're going to run you about 150 bucks to what, 175, maybe 200 a set?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. You know.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's like, I talked to one gentleman here not too long ago, and he's like, why use five different colors of prescription lenses? He said, so I. I don't like to get new ones all the time. And I'm like, okay, well, if you're not getting new ones and it's costing you this, this ain't good.

[A]

Well, I would say, you know, to speak on that, if we're going to go down the budgetary route, I think you'd be better off buying one or two new prescription lenses every year that match your prescription than having five lenses that are not.

[B]

That are not because. And not break a target. Correct.

[A]

Because I like the idea of having other color selection. Right. But, you know, you heard Ricky Marshall, one of the best in the world. He's got three go to lenses. Honestly, in my bag right now, if I were to go to my one set of lenses that I go into, I've got a 15 gold that I use for nighttime. I've got a 45%. It's a medium target orange lens that I use basically every single day. And then I have that same bronze that Ricky has for, I would call highlight situations where I put a Tucson. I. I'll use them at the grand when the days are just scorching hot and you've got that sun right over your head and you've got glare. Whenever I'm getting glare back off of the concrete or glare off of the environment, like in the desert, that bronze, that Bronze really helps my eyes see the quiet.

[B]

It quiets your eyes. It. You don't get that, the laziness. And these are just things that I mean, you know, we've done over the years and trial and error. You know, I used to shoot in light medium target orange was my lens and a clear. That's all I ever had. And people were like, really? And I, at the end of the day I would be so tired, you know, And I tell you, you know, you know, Mike Reiner changed all that. And I wish he was still with us because, I mean, the man knew so much about lenses.

[A]

He did, you know, and it was, you know, from what he told me, obviously he had it in the family. They'd been working on lenses and kind of doing that thing. And it was a generational process and you know, he just knew so much and he spent so much time figuring out how to put different colors into the lenses proprietarily. And post four did a really good job of that. Obviously they're not around anymore. I still have my post four frames and I just get.

[B]

That's what I use.

[A]

Does my inserts. You know, I basically have those and, and I have the, the, the pilas also. I like those. What I don't like about them is I don't like, I don't like the systems that I found for the blinders yet. And so for me, I still feel more comfortable, at least, at least in events where I'm at the 16 yard line where I'm seeing people moving around more, the 27, it doesn't seem to bother me as much. But at the 16 yard line where stuff's going on, I like to have those blinders. And you know, like I said, Justin told me that there's a new set of blinders that he's got that are really cool. I haven't tried them out yet, so I'd be willing to give that a try. But, but for whatever reason, you know, those high wides with the traditional blinder set make my eyes feel really, really, really comfortable. And then, you know, if I ever throw on the pill, as it's usually for sporting clays where I want, I want a wider field of vision and I don't have anybody next to me in the box or, or like I said, handicap where, I mean, from the 27 yard line as far as you're standing from everybody back there, I really don't see a lot going on when I'm mounting the gun from the fence versus at the 16 yard line. I feel like, you know, like we got Rich Bullard, the shadow. You got to have something to block that out, you know, you. Yeah, it's not a good thing. So. So the next question I have for you, Rick, is related to this off time of the year. I know you've always taught and told me to break the target when you see it really well and when you're locked onto it. There's not necessarily a time when you shoot the bird as far as shooting it quick or shooting it slow or shooting it wherever it's you're shooting it when you get there and when it's right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Have you noticed that, that, that timing is changing for you? One, as you're getting older, but two, in the light. So, so like, let's just say it's a, it's a low light scenario, you know, or the fall or you've got the shadows and the clouds. Are you seeing the breakpoints change or the way you approach a target change at all versus on a bluebird day when light is absolutely perfect.

[B]

I so to me, I mean, there's. So no target is shot the same way I, I shoot when I'm on the target. So this target might be pull bang, the next target might be pull bang. So it's all about letting your eyes see the target and then moving, you know, that's why, you know, I like holding on the house. I don't like looking down under the gun because the hands get in the way, the barrel gets in the way. You know, all these things waiting on a target, that there's anticipation there, there's anxiety there, there's, you know, so for me, I, I just keep everything the same. No matter the time of year or the gun club I'm shooting at, you know, I just, when I see that target, I make my move on the line and, and shoot it. So I mean, you could say, you.

[A]

Know, I think that keeps it simplest. But from what you said, you shoot it when you see it. So if for some reason you're not seeing it as close to the house, it's not getting broke as close to the house versus if you're seeing it, you know, right off the.

[B]

There's no, there's no correct timing or no correct place to shoot the target. And, and that's, you know, if anybody says there is, I, I going to agree with them because I've not seen to where you have to break a target. Here, here, here, here.

[A]

Tell you have to break a target here to Brett Robinson and Joey Chernigo. Right. Like, like that's like, you know, these things, they're breaking as they're coming out of the house, they're getting smoked back into the house, and you're like, okay. And then, you know, you've got other people like Bob Munson where that, you know, they're riding those things out across the prairie and they're, you know, shooting them on the way down. So, I mean, these are, you know, obviously great shooters on both ends of it and. And have made it work. Some are more methodical, some are more aggressive and more instinct. But I think at the end of the day, it's whenever the gun gets to the target, it's whenever you feel like you're there, and it's whenever you see it. Well, and you. You.

[B]

You mentioned Brett and Joey, and this is funny you say that because. And folks, we. We didn't put this up or anything, but I had a student this weekend, actually. One of the coaches asked me who shot quicker, Brit or Joey, and I was like, well, I was like, man, they both shoot fast. I said, you know, Joey might shoot a little quicker at doubles. I said, but you gotta remember, two different time errors. Brit shot off all hand pulls. Joey's shooting off Voice.

[A]

Essentially a wider set. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. But you. And. And I would say this. I. In if. If you take and put Joey back in Brit's time area, Joey wouldn't shoot as fast as Britt because Joey's going off of the timing of the machine. He's calling. He's. And it's an instant. You know, Marit was moving off his eyes.

[A]

Yeah. Off of movement. I mean, who's going to be faster than. Than Brett? I mean, I mean, off of movement, singing and making a reaction, I totally understand the difference between that and just, okay, we're shooting Pat traps. We're shooting Canterbury. We're shooting two hole. We're calling pull. And this bird is instantly emerging, and everything's off of timing. And I think, yes, it's made the scores better, but it's also made the problems bigger because, I mean, I fall into it all the time where I'm just going off of that pull, go, pull, go. And I need to back myself off. And I need to say, okay, Zach, we're deep into the season. Look at the target, see it, then move. See it.

[B]

Well, look at, look at, you know, I mean, you. You had a hell of a run towards the end of the year to get your singles average back up over 99. So I commend you on that. And that's Part of the, you know, just maturity and more experience in shooting versus, you know, back in the day. I mean, my scores, it might. Might have had years where I had average 99, but towards the end of the year, I might have, you know, broke a 195 in there just because I'm like, not. I'm not cognizant of what's going on, so to speak. So now every time I go out, it. It's target management. You know, I'm going on a run and you're shooting and you miss a target and it's like, oh, well, most people like, well, now it's. Now the target management kicks in of, okay, that's the only miss that's going to happen. Let's really dig these targets out.

[A]

I love that. And that brings up an important topic. And I think that some people, they're going out to win events, and then once they don't win an event or they know they're out of winning the event, the wheels, the fly off, they're just like completely fly off, fly off. I mean, so you go from, you know, running the first 20, 30 birds in a row, and then you miss one and you're like, okay, hold it together. You miss another one, and now you're down 6, and you're like, holy crap, what happened? And the only thing I can think is emotions get involved, right, because you want. You want to win. Everybody wants to win. I mean, that's, that's definitely what we're trying to do. I mean, I don't think there's any one person that goes to the range and says, I would hate it if I won today, right? I think everyone. Now there's some people that say maybe I don't have the ability to win or maybe I can't win right now based on what's going on with my setup, my gun, my equipment, my training, my, my whatever. But I don't think anybody doesn't like the idea of winning.

[B]

And, well, I think you. You bring up a good point there of. Here's what I've been seeing a lot of with students is short selling yourself. You know, I'm not good enough to do this. I'll never be this. I'll listen. When I first started this game in 1986, 7, 8, whatever it was as far as, like shooting in 86, I think, or 87, then it registered in 88. I was no club champion, let alone an all American and a world champion.

[A]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a quick break and we got to welcome a new sponsor to the show, RGS Bore Stripper. It's a great product. Ricky, tell them how they can find it.

[B]

Go to their website, rgsguncleaner.com you can get the 18 ounce bottle, free shipping, 28 ounce bottle and you get the 2 ounce travel bottle and it's free shipping also. Or just get the little two ounce bottle for travel.

[A]

Yeah, they sent me some of this product and I used it on my Craig off choke tubes the other day and it got the plastic out like in a minute and it was super cool and super good. So if you like cleaning your gun, you like eliminating plastic and you like shiny bores, give them a try for sure. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

[B]

Yeah, we'd really like to thank John Weber, the owner, for the support. He's doing an awesome job.

[A]

Yeah, we really want to thank John. We appreciate the support of the show. Anybody that supports Trap Talk, you guys need to support them and get this stuff because it's awesome.

[B]

And with that, let's get back to the show.

[A]

Hey Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay Shoot management, they're doing a fantastic job. I, I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah, Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean they've got majority of the satellite grants. Majority the state shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You can see your squad if they paid, you know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal.

[A]

They're just. Ricky, how much money he made before he even got off the line, he was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean they're the best in the business. I, I know they're, they're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right? Yeah.

[B]

Cole and Larry Cushman, been long time supporters of myself and, and I've been a supporter of them and you know, especially with my college team, you know, we were require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance. In literally 10 minutes you can have your guns insured. And they're just great. They're great to deal with like I said you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife, animals and that such and your guns.

[A]

It's just a great, it's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive, expensive things. Especially when you got those Craig offs, you got to keep them insured. So. Oh, with that being said, let's get.

[B]

Back to the show. You know, I mean, I just set goals and really, really stuck to them, you know, and, and I tell all my students this every time and I tell people just over the phone, you know, I had a nice conversation with the gentleman yesterday on the phone about some stuff and you know, set them goals and achieve them because we as humans love self satisfaction. Do something good, pat yourself on the back. Okay. Now that's all that is. You know, and it's like I always say with the averages, Zach, you know, 99 is a great average, but the ATA is not paying you for that average, you know, so to me, if I give a hundred percent out there and my score is my score, then that's all you can ask.

[A]

You live with it. Yeah, you live with it. And I think that's. When we talk about this target management that Rick's bringing up. I don't think Rick's saying, and I know I'm not saying like we get to a point where we're being more cautious because we're down. No, I mean you're not. No, no, you're not, you're not saying, hey, let's slow down and let's really be precise. It's just not letting your emotions get in the way and not letting one or two messes create two or three more misses. Because I think misses breed misses and hits, breed hits. Like if you, if you smoke, if you smoke ball a target in anything, the confidence is going to go up or down, it's going to go up. So the odds of my confidence being better after I smoked one, going to the next shot are high. Now if I just took a lost pair in the doubles, the confidence, I mean, it can either go up, stay level or go down. I would say most people confidence is probably going to go down after they lose a pair of doubles and then how they act after that is going to be the score that comes from the feelings of the loss, the regret, the scared uneasy feeling of the uncertainty of what's going on. And I think so many people go back to analyzing, well, what did I do wrong? And how did I miss that target and where did I miss that target? And so then they're micro analyzing the shot while they're out there trying to compete instead of just like, okay, I didn't see the bird well, because more times than not, and I've risked. Ricky, you know why you missed the target? He's like, I just didn't see it really well or my eyes didn't lock onto it. It's not, it's not that it was, you know, a bad anything. It was just that one bird. For whatever reason, you didn't connect with it really well and it didn't break, and that's okay.

[B]

And speaking of that, you know, most of my clinics, I don't shoot in. I will shoot doubles and show people doubles, the move from the first target, second target. So Sunday I shot and showed everybody and I purposely was like, okay, I'm gonna shoot these quick and, you know, as, as fast as I can, you know, and without, excuse me, without seeing, like, really locking on that first target. So I, you know, mounted the gun, set it on the spot, and as I call pull, I just, you know, bang. And I, I shift my eyes like you should. I missed the first target and I broke the second one. And everybody's like, oh. And I said, now did you see that? That I didn't look at that target Then when I missed also, I said, but I didn't see it very well. I said, so this is the thing. You really gotta focus. You want to see your first target shoot and then go. And they were like, oh, okay. They, they understood because a lot of kids, what they're doing is, is they're just shooting a streak or trying to spot, shoot or trap and all that.

[A]

So that's why I never lock onto it.

[B]

Get your eyes, you gotta lock on and go.

[A]

And when your eyes don't lock on a bird, especially in doubles, there's. It's so easy to throw your hands at the bird. It's so easy to lift your head off the stock. It's so easy to short the gun. It's so easy to do a million things that we would cause you to miss the target. And, and one that I seen at the fall handicap was we were dealing with a little bit of wind, and some of the sets were a little erratic. Whether it was the wind or whatever, I don't know. But, you know, you'd have a line of that first target and height would vary. You know, let's just say 3 to 10ft in between shots. I mean, there's a float on that first bird where it was either going to stay or it was going to go way up or it was going to go down. And if that's the case, if you're not walking onto that bird and you don't see that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you had a normal One that's at 8 or 9ft, and then you have the next one. That's it. You know, let's just call it 15ft. Well, that, that target is coming out of that zone a lot faster. And if you're not locked onto it looking, you're not going to notice that. You're going to. You're going to think, oh, yeah, I'm going to shoot it kind of where it was last time, right when you're pulling the trigger, you didn't notice. And now that target is out of your window and you just took a lost first bird and now you're going over to the second one. And it's just, it's. You have to recognize what you're shooting at visually before.

[B]

Well, you, you got to understand. And you want to shoot targets where they're at, not where they're supposed to be. Yeah, they're supposed to be in doubles, you know, Right in that, you know, and that's what Tyler even said to me after the fact. I talked to him after I was done with the clinic, and. And he. You guys shot handicap and everything, and. And he called me on his way back to. To school, and I said, hey, you know, I'm real proud of you. You know, that was his second hundred in doubles, and. And he's like, dad. He's like, they were hard. He goes, that was probably the hardest set doubles I've ever shot. And I said, well, I said, do you know what you showed yourself? What you. And he. He's like, what? And I said, when you break a hundred or 99 or even 98, whatever on targets like that, that just shows that you're digging the targets out. Because he said, he goes, some of the targets were in the dirt, some were up and such. And he said, you know, he thought he had a little advantage shooting the right bird first on a couple of them, because the right bird was the one for. On, I think it was the second 50. He said, maybe that was bouncing around more than anything. So he said, you know, I got that out of the way first, so to speak, but it's one of those things, and from what I heard, because I wasn't there on the weekend that, you know, the targets needed a little bit More spring added to them.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and, and I think that spring can help in situations where you're dealing with when obviously. But I think if you go back to it, and I've thought. I mean, I obviously haven't been shooting as long as you, Rick, but I've been shooting 22 years now. And, and if I look back and think of all the best scores that I've had, some of the very best scores that I've ever had were scores where everything was all over the place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, and maybe it wasn't 100 straight, but, you know, you've walked off the line when you've broken 96 and handicap and you're like, that's salty. You know, you're like, oh, yeah.

[B]

Or even, Listen, 92. And a couple shoots have been like, that was sporty.

[A]

Yeah. And because you know, that everything was moving around so much that nothing was constant. And you made, made 90, 91, 92 shots. And those 91 or 92 shots, you had to give everything to break the ones that you broke and the ones that you didn't break. It wasn't that, you know, you weren't trying. It's just that, you know, some of these birds were just completely crazy and wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I love that. I love the focus that comes from that. Like, the focus, the looking at it. And I think, you know, I'll say this, and I might get some flack about it, but I do think there's a difference between fair weather shooters and all condition shooters. Right. Like, there's people in this country that if you set a bird that's very consistent, that's not, not drifted, that's not, you know, not moving. Right. Kind of like this 9 to 11 foot target in the zone of speed that's, you know, kind of right there with light on it. Their whole methodical game is built around that, where it's like, okay, I'm gonna do everything I can to eliminate gun move. I'm do everything I can to increase the opportunity of hitting the bird.

[B]

And are you, are you throwing out anybody? Are you talking about Rich Bullard or. No, I'm just kidding.

[A]

Not specifically, because, you know, actually, Rich has shot some of the best scores I've seen really windy days. I mean, to give him, to give him credit and to not throw him under the bus, which is very unlike the show. He, he, he has shot some of the greatest scores I've ever seen in very high wind events where targets are up, you know, 10, 20, 30ft. I mean, I've seen him break some handicaps at Kansas Sunday where they have that face wind and they've got that machine all the way down to the plate. That target comes out and it does nothing but go north. I mean, it's just going up, up, up, up, up. And you know, he's very, very good at shooting that bird. I've always had a lot more trouble on that bird because I'm on the house. And there's all just a whole lot of move for me to get all the way up to where, where that is.

[B]

You just got to keep the gum movement. But you know, you, you're talking about that with the, the condition stuff. And that is something that I told all my students this weekend. I was like, listen, it was blowing 25 mile an hour. If you guys can shoot in conditions like this, you got to shoot the targets where they're at now, where they're supposed to be. You will be a better shooter, correct? Hands down.

[A]

I think there's clubs in the country where you go to them and you know, you're walking into a show. It's going to be birds that are going to be moving left or right. They're going to be oscillating in the doubles, there's going to be wind environment where the targets are never going to be the same. You're going to have background environment that's difficult. You're going to have trap maintenance that might not be at its best, but you can win events with lower scores and, and the shooters that end up winning those events are shooters that have pointing ability. And I think that pointing ability is going to carry more into duck hunting, dove hunting, you know, sporting clays, skeet, all of those other things, right, where they're natural shotgun pointers, where they're actually pointing out the target and making good shots versus, you know, somebody that's like, well, if it's not in my window, it ain't getting hit, right? If it's in my window, I might hit them. I might hit them all day long or I might. I've set my game up to only break this type of bird and I want this set or this bird to break it. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm, I'm not going to discredit anyone because I think, I think there's a, there's a place for everyone in this game. But I, I just think learning to shoot variants is a good skill to have. If you were not on the side of being stuck where you are and you're like, hey, I want to Learn something. I would learn how to shoot variants. Learn to shoot high birds, learn to shoot low birds, learn to shoot fast birds, learn to shoot slow birds. I mean, the more birds you learn how to shoot, the more of a threat that you'll be in scenarios that are out of your control, which sometimes the birds are just out of your control.

[B]

Yeah, no, they are. And that's one of the things is, you know, it's you really. When birds are crazy, what I tell everybody is just go back to the basics, okay? Don't. Don't try to do something like, oh, let's shoot them right off the arm. That's what happens. What people really want to do it. Just pick them out, you know, oh, there it is. Go with it. There it is. You know, just pick them out. And that's the difference from an average shooter to a world champion. I mean, that is, you know, we can go out and just, oh, there it is, and shoot it.

[A]

Hey, trap talk listeners, we got to take a real quick break, and we got to thank Ron Prescott from Mid State precious metals for everything they do for the trap shooting community coast to coast for all your gold and silver buying needs. And on top of that new announcement, they're a sponsor of the 126 grand American.

[B]

Finally, he said it right, folks. Grand American. Yeah. Ron is a great guy. He's a sponsor of the back fence shootout out at Nevada State shoot and Ohio State shoot. And also we got our gold for our trap talk event at Nevada State shoot and the 77th annual Nevada State Shoot. They bought all theirs from it. 680 ounces of silver to be exact. Folks, you're missing out if you're not there.

[A]

That's a lot of silver. And honestly, if you're not buying from Ron, you're probably overpaying. So whether you're buying it for your gun clubs or your shoots or for your personal use, you got to give them a try because they're big supporters of the trap shooting nation. So it's awesome. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

And in the weather doesn't bother me. I. I know when I go out in this bad weather, I got a very few people to beat because they've already beat themselves. And that's what I've kind of instilled in. In Tyler over the years. He's. He's gotten this last year and a half. The boy is. Is matured a lot more, you know, I mean, of course, going to college, you know, helps and stuff, but he is as far as his thinking process, he understands now he still has the. You know, he gets mad when he misses and he's upset.

[A]

That's just that because blood.

[B]

Well, yeah, he's. Yeah. You can't.

[A]

You can't get that out of him. I mean that's.

[B]

No. And it's one of those things is. And that's what I try to still in all my students the same way is like, listen, everybody could be a world champion. It's what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it.

[A]

100 and to. To. To compliment Tyler again, I noticed that he didn't make AAA 27 AAA. And I didn't even know. I didn't even know he was really trying for that. But I looked at it the other day and I seen the people that came and I seen his nine is it name on there?

[B]

Where's it at?

[A]

Is it's up. If you go on the shoot ata website and you look it up. AAA 27 AAA. They've got all the, all the people that are listed from the year that do they. That. Yeah. And the only reason I knew is because Andrew Herberg, I think he posted on his Facebook that he did it. And then when I clicked on the little thing and I seen all the other names, I noticed Tyler. And I'm like, man, I'm. I'm really proud of him because one, I know how hard that is to do and two, I remember like a few years ago, you know, he was. He was working on all three games and trying to bring his averages up. And those average is not. It's not easy to achieve. It's really. It's really not there.

[B]

It is. Yeah. This year was Chaitan Vega, Jake Ham, Thomas Smith, Tyler Buchanan, Colton Tucker, Andrew Herberg, Ethan Ledford, Tyler Marshall, Michael Day and Kane Packer. So out of everybody this year, the last three are from Nebraska. So we. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. So 30% of the people were out in Nebraska that made Triple A.27 Triple A for the year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

It's not easy to do. And you know, since I've made it, I've always wanted to make it. I mean, that's kind of one of my. One of my goals at the end of the year is to always be AAA 27 AAA. And to just knock that out. So you're never, you know, you're never questioning anything. But. But it's not. I mean, very few people in my mind can handle all three games. I Mean, they can, you know, go from singles to handicapped doubles and be able to actually compete at all three games. I mean, it's not. It's not easy. I mean, it's just not.

[B]

It's not. And that's the thing. I'm just scrolling through the. The triple A's here. It's kind of interesting to. To look at all these.

[A]

I got mine in like 2008 or 2009. I mean, it was way, way.

[B]

Well, the first group was 2000. And they only put five people in, which is crazy because every one of us were AAA back then. But I just think they did it, you know, then. And. Because then they. They didn't do anything in 01. But O2 is when, you know, Leo, Harlan, me, Stafford, Munson. I think everybody. Them. And I'm thinking, okay, that's kind of interesting. You know, they just. How they listed it out. But. Yeah, no, it is a big, big thing to do.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think you guys were all there obviously before, but I think in 2000, they just were pulling the ones from the past. Because these names from 2000, I mean, these are some pretty old. Old names like Michael.

[B]

Well, David Van Elgert, Barry Roach, Jerry Murphy, Michael Mizuchi, and Neil Burbage. So those from two. I know I was AAA 27 AAA in 2000.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I'm sure.

[B]

And, well, and Leo was for sure.

[A]

I guarantee Leo was.

[B]

If you weren't.

[A]

Leo was. So I'm like. I'm like, there might be a little problem with the accounting, but I think they went back because what they were doing at that point when they came and put this here is they went back and found all the ones that were like, way in. The passenger said, because, look, it was banias. And that banias. I mean, well, he could have very. Well, he could have very well went in an O2, but I think they're counting a year from way, way, way back when. And they just did a bunch of people in O2 and kind of threw them all at once.

[B]

Yeah, no, that did.

[A]

That's what.

[B]

That's kind of crazy. Yeah, but it's. No, it was a big deal, Tyler. That was one of his main goals for the year was to be AAA 27 AAA.

[A]

All right, trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank a couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line. When you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[B]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[A]

And their friends are trap shooters. I mean, they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show, and we love that they support trap talk.

[B]

Yeah. His dad was past president, 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support. It. Really appreciate it here at trap.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show. All right, folks, we got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ata, White flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[B]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there. All the reps. You know, Bill Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow. Everything they do for the sport and all the shoots. Really appreciate it.

[A]

They're always there. They're always trying to make a better target, and they're always supporting the game that we love so much. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[B]

And he made it as a junior shooter. They got enlisted as junior gold. But that's because his birthday was in. In July 31st. But he literally. Yeah, that was his main goal, was that. And make the all American team.

[A]

Well, he did it.

[B]

First team. Yeah, he made first team on junior because I don't. Did you get your patch?

[A]

I. I think so. It's in the mail somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, I just. I just. It actually just came. Got the old 26 open team. When, you know, you get your nice letter and then you get your. Your gold pin for making first team. So that was number 35 for me.

[A]

I. I have to go back and look. I'm. It's either 12 or 13 for me.

[B]

That is.

[A]

Yeah, 12 or 13. I'm not 100% sure. But, you know, honestly, I wasn't really tracking them. I'm just kind of getting them here and there and getting Them here and there. But ever since, ever since COVID I haven't missed it yet. So I've been this last few years and then all the ones I did when I was in categories when I was younger, which that's, I mean, I think, I think it's about right down the middle now. It's half and half or somewhere along those lines. But, but the other things that I want to talk about today, I mean, before we wrap up, we talked about light, we talked about glasses, we talked about, you know, breaking the target when your eyes get there. And I think these are all very, very, very helpful topics. I, I guess one thing that I've always heard from you and tying this all together with the light and the changing is I know that you hold your eyes, you know, just kind of right above the barrel when you get ready to call pull. Have you ever really changed that based on lighting conditions or your eyes getting older or younger or do you feel like that distance that you're looking over the top of the, the beads or through the beads is the same from when you were my age till now?

[B]

Yeah, I, I don't change anything because, you know, if it's working, why change it? I literally my eyes are this much above the, the barrel, but I look through the beads and kind of up just, I mean, at the house, but just in sometimes. I mean it's all that little area, it's tight. So. Yeah, I don't, you know, we just got this discussion about it the other day and I don't, I just think if you, if you're holding gun up high and you look down, you got that opportunity for a disconnect and then you, your eyes go back by the barrel and they, you know, everything happens in a multi second.

[A]

Yeah. It's microseconds. It's happening so fast. And, and I guess for you, if you were to describe it for the people listening today, do you feel like your barrel and your eyes are moving together or do you feel like your eyes will then go to the bird and the, and the barrel will follow behind? I mean, how quick are your eyes versus your barrel?

[B]

I think it's very close, but your eyes are always going to get to the target before the barrel does. Because if not, then you're aiming. Correct.

[A]

So your eyes are always on the bird. Always, always, always on the bird. And because they're always on the bird, that ensures that the gun barrel continues to move versus looking back at the beads and aiming. Because as soon as you would see the perfect picture, if you were to aim with the end of the gun as soon as you were to see the perfect picture of. I'm exactly at six o' clock on that bird. The bird is still moving. But what does your body naturally want to do? Stop. Stop. Correct. So. So I think, you know, a big takeaway here is a lot of people don't have the confidence in circling back to the confidence and the trust that we built up in that. That confidence, right? So you say, okay, I want to break a good score. How many people have went 95 straight and then missed on the last post? Because the last few shots, the last few shots, they really tried to make the shots and maybe, you know, they were being too precise with the gun. You know, they were being, you know, too extremely aware of where the beads were, where the gun was. And then I do it. Stop up. Everyone does it.

[B]

I did it at the grand. I missed 100 target in that handicap that day. I threw the gun up and I was like, okay, make. And it was the work. I should have taken the gun down and started over and just, you know, just like I did the other 99 shots, you know, but it's like, you.

[A]

You want it, right? So you want it. So in our mind, when you want to break it or you want to hit it. Our mind has been trained since we're little babies. Cautious, careful, you know, or, or what's the word? Precise, right? Like, oh, if you're going to do it, do it. Precision. Do it right.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

And I think that this game is a game that is shot best on the edge of reckless abandon. I mean, it's almost like you're on the cuff, like you're, you're just redlining. You're going around that racetrack and you're redlining. You're not blowing up the engine, but you're, you're, you're humming, right?

[B]

You occasionally blow up the engine. Well, yeah, you know, you used to in the doubles. That was your big thing in the doubles is you were, you, were you, you wrapped out the engine.

[A]

You know, you got to blow up a few cars before you figure out how to drive, Ricky. Okay. I'm just saying, you know, all the great ones, they were all wrecking their cars, man. Look at Ricky Bobby. I mean, one of the greatest of all time. So you gotta, you gotta think about it subconsciously. Every one of us wants to finish a score. Every one of us wants to win. And we get to those pressure situations. But I think a big takeaway is, is you can't defensively put scores on the board. You can't get to the point to where you're, you're getting cautious and you're looking at the beads and you're making that perfect shot on those last few because you want it. Because the first thing that's going to happen, your hands are going to slow down, your body's going to slow down, you're going to stop, you're going to jump, you're going to pop your head off the gun because you made that perfect look. And now you can't see the bird and you're like, oh, crap, I can't see it. All of those things are, are symptoms of not looking at the bird properly and not trusting your eyes and your hands. And I think that's correct. If we get to the root of eyes and hands, I think people would generally break more scores if they got out of their own way and they didn't, they didn't need to have the satisfaction of saying, well, I seen the beat at 3 o' clock on that bird and it was absolutely perfect. And I pulled the trigger. Like, I can't when I'm really hitting targets. Well, I cannot for the life of me tell me where the bead was on the shot that I just smoked.

[B]

Because it's all, it's all just, it's irrelevant. It's just you're seeing it and you're shooting. Make the, make the good shot. Yep.

[A]

Correct. Correct. And I think there was a lot of good information here today. I hope that the people listening could take maybe one of these things and start integrating it into their game so they can raise their scores. But, you know, focusing on light eyes, the weather, the look points. Is there anything we're missing, Rick, today? In closing, is there anything else that you want to speak on or that you've uncovered by teaching and talking to your students?

[B]

You know, just proper gun fit, that's one of the big things. Make sure, you know, I believe everybody should have a adjustable comb their gun, you know, and so we can properly fit the gun well.

[A]

And that's, that's a huge. That's a whole other episode, right? That's a whole other episode that we could talk about. But I think there is something, you know, and as someone that shot a while, Ricky shot a lot longer, your body's gonna change. Your body is gonna go through fluctuations whether you're an adult or whether. Or whether you're a kid. And I think it's especially relevant if you're a younger shooter because you look at like a Wyatt debris or a Barrett debris. I mean, I. Look, I've watched them grow since, you know, they couldn't. They were. The guns were bigger than they were and now getting bigger and stronger, bigger and stronger. And there needs to be adjustments and changes based on their body styles changing. And so I think it's almost intuitive to think of that with a young person because they're growing so much. But then you've got people that are, you know, that are, you know, in their 30s, 40s, 50s, that they're not growing anymore height wise. But maybe they're growing out or they're growing in.

[B]

And.

[A]

And when that's happening, the face is the first thing to adjust. And I think so many people get into a slump and they never once even bothered to ask the question, where's. Where's my gun? And where am I? The same as I was a year ago or two years ago. I mean, I wish I had.

[B]

In the programs, they've been running the Fiocchi ads with me. And I mean, my face is an extra inch or more.

[A]

You know, I don't know why they don't go to the now pictures because it would save them money on ink.

[B]

I mean, you. That's horrible.

[A]

You look good. I mean, I'll give you that.

[B]

But it's like how dirty they fat shaming. Zach, that is not bad.

[A]

I know it is. And it. The only person that I ever seen that got done dirtier than that was the Remington poster with Wyatt on it. I mean, they did him. They just did him.

[B]

They did. That was dirty.

[A]

Hey, like they said in the Godfather, they massacred my boy. Like, they, they. They killed him, you know, and, and, you know, you're looking good, but I just think if. If there's people in ads, the F. Remington ad, any of the ads, like, just. This is. This is a little shout out to anybody running the marketing teams. Please go back and look at your shooters and look at their pictures. And if. And if, if they've gotten better looking, then maybe redo the picture. Now if they're worse looking like me, use the old pictures.

[B]

Use the old picture.

[A]

Use the old pictures right now. You got to be aware of it. But you know, Ricky. Ricky has lost a sub junior from California, and I'm proud of him. He's doing a great job. He's working hard at it. So, you know, that's. And it hasn't affected your shooting. And you went to Winnock and you got fitted and refitted and.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And, you know, and there was a little struggle there where we thought, we thought you were human and you could be beat. And then Zach said, oh, I got this. I was so happy. I was like, oh, my God, what a great time to be alive. And then he got refitted and then it was over. And I'm like, ah, damn.

[B]

I said, ah, I don't have to be there. I just send Tyler. He can handle you.

[A]

It's only, only pain in my heart, Ricky. Only pain and love is what we.

[B]

Have for each other.

[A]

With that being said, I think it was a great episode today. I hope the listeners get a lot of value. We've got a lot more coming down the pipe. We're heading to Nevada for the Nevada State shoot. We're going to shoot some cool content. We've got some new interviews and some new people that are coming down the pipe that are on the books right now. So tune in every Friday, like, share, subscribe, send in your questions, make sure to see me and Ricky wear your Trap Talk hats and shirts. Get your merch, get your merch. You know, we're rolling. We got it. We gotta, we gotta be plugging everywhere we go and, and support the brands that support Trap Talk. If you can bring out a new shooter, bring them out, get them involved, get them shooting, because this is the only way we're gonna grow the sport is if we can get new people involved, new people shooting, new people trying it out. And, and that's the, the object of what we're trying to do is to help grow the sport of trap shooting because we all love it, we all enjoy it and it's a great, great place. So thanks for tuning in. Happy Friday. We'll catch you next time.

[B]

Thanks, everyone. Good luck.

[A]

And the Trap Talk podcast is brought to you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. If you want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Nanini Financial. We believe in putting people first.