Trap Talk 169 | Kelly Reisdorf, Cole Cushman & Jason Rambo Talk All Things USA Shooting

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trap Talk From The Back Fence

Episode 169: Kelly Reisdorf, Cole Cushman & Jason Rambo Talk All Things USA Shooting
Date: March 27, 2026
Host(s): Zach Nannini & Richard Marshall Jr.
Guests: Kelly Reisdorf (CEO, USA Shooting), Cole Cushman (Gun & Trophy Insurance), Jason Rambo (Dead Pair Podcast)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a special roundtable discussion with leaders and advocates in the American shotgun sports world. Zach and Ricky bring together voices from podcasting (Jason Rambo), industry support/sponsorship (Cole Cushman), and critical leadership (Kelly Reisdorf, CEO of USA Shooting) to discuss the state, challenges, future, and aspirations of USA Shooting, particularly heading toward the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics. The conversation covers athlete development, grassroots support, facility barriers, communication gaps, and the culture of competitive shooting in the US. The session is energetic, candid, and passionate, with the group openly brainstorming ways to make the pathway from youth shooting to Olympic competition clearer and more accessible.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kelly Reisdorf’s Background and USA Shooting’s Mission

[02:48] – [07:14]

• Kelly shares her journey: Midwest upbringing, Marine MP, long experience in defense/shooting sports industry, and leading a turnaround at USA Shooting for the past two years.
• "I've kind of told anyone who will listen I'll always do what I can to protect the shooting sports, to put a moat around it... it's a huge part of my life." – Kelly, 05:53
• Highlights the importance and unique American perspective of lawful firearms ownership and its role in Team USA’s Olympic shooting teams.
• USA Shooting is historically one of Team USA’s most successful medal-winning disciplines despite being a fraction of the spending base of major Olympic sports.

2. Structure, Training, and Facility Challenges

[08:01] – [13:30]

• Shift from centralized athlete residency to decentralized model. No resident athletes for shotgun; only rifle/pistol training remains at Colorado Springs.
• Primary shotgun competition venues now are Hillsdale, Tucson, and West Palm, with regional selection events moving between them.
• Cost and scarcity of bunker (Olympic trap) fields is a huge barrier for transitioning elite ATA (American Trap Association) shooters to Olympic disciplines.
• "There's a trap field in every county, basically... but only maybe 10-12 real bunker ranges nationwide." – Ricky, 23:05
• Facilities like Tucson (funded by the late Bill Martin) are crucial hubs, but there’s a call for more, and for greater connection to local clubs and state game agencies.

3. Navigating the Path to the Olympics

[13:30] – [17:07]; [52:14] – [63:31]

• Qualification and selection process is complex, varies by discipline (pistol, rifle, shotgun), and is not easy to navigate on the USA Shooting website.
• Youth, parents, and even coaches often rely on personal contacts to figure out elite pathways.
• Kelly aspires to overhaul and simplify the process, using USA Archery’s two-click model as inspiration.
• Discussion of potential for a national summit bringing together grassroots leaders to create more integrated, transparent systems and clear developmental pipelines.
• "If you could change one thing about the program... give an opportunity to the top three to five best in the division... let them try [Olympic trap] at trial camps" – Zach, 52:35
• Emphasis on the importance of inclusive opportunity, transparency, and merit-based selection.

4. Grassroots & Youth Shooting: Potential and Gaps

[19:23] – [31:33]

• Barriers: Lack of bunkers, information siloed among small cliques, and uneven promotion of youth-to-international shooter transitions.
• Minnesota’s high school trap program now dwarfs even ice hockey in participation (14,000+ youth shooters) but is ignored by mainstream media. "We have over three times the number of kids in trap shooting leagues as hockey players [in MN]." – Kelly, 29:23
• Nebraska, with the country’s longest-running youth program, struggles to extend beyond a two-day annual shoot due to capacity.
• Value of summer camps and bringing together top ATA/grassroots shooters for exposure to Olympic disciplines is widely championed.

5. Promotion, Communication, and Organizational Segmentation

[33:46] – [41:06]

• Frustration with poor communication between organizations like ATA, NSCA, SCTP, and USA Shooting.
• Suggestion to better promote opportunities at major youth/pro events, both in person and online.
• "It's like the speakeasy in sports. People don’t even know how to get in!" – Jason, 34:52
• Kelly shares that USA Shooting wants to be a partner, not a competitor, for all grassroots and youth organizations.

6. Financial Models, Funding, and Growth Opportunities

[27:42] – [37:05]

• USA Shooting doesn’t have a grant war chest but helps connect range projects to donors and grant-giving foundations (e.g., MidwayUSA).
• MidwayUSA highlighted for supporting youth teams, coaching education, and facility construction.
• Kelly committed to supporting and certifying ranges and smoothing the way for new projects.

7. Culture and Mentality: Grit, Patriotism, and the American Edge

[67:32] – [72:22]

• Extensive pride in the U.S. model: self-motivation, individual and private initiative, not state-paid athlete systems like in Europe and Asia.
• "We're built on bootleggers, a bunch of people that are hungry...when you got that skin in the game it makes you gristly—it's great." – Zach, 69:21
• Strong sense of patriotism, Second Amendment culture, and ‘grit’ that underpins American shooters’ success internationally despite lower funding.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Systemic Change & Inclusion:
  • "I want us to be more integrated with all those grassroots programs, not to take away, compete...but to partner and meet these kids where they're at." – Kelly, 18:17
• On Facility Gaps:
  • "You can build an American trap house for $10,000... a bunker is $200,000-plus and there are only a few nationwide." – Ricky, 23:26
• On Missed Communication:
  • "You have these youth nationals with thousands of shooters. They graduate, and nobody even tells them that Olympics or NSCA is out there." – Jason, 57:42
• On Creating Pipelines:
  • "Bring the top sub-juniors, juniors, and junior gold—say, top 10 of each—invite them to camps, let them see what they can do." – Ricky, 54:53
• On the American ‘Secret Sauce’:
  • "You can't put a price on living with freedom every day with the Second Amendment. That’s grit you cannot buy." – Kelly, 69:58

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:48–07:14] – Kelly’s professional background & her philosophy for USA Shooting
• [08:01–13:30] – The evolution of athlete development & facility challenges
• [13:30–17:07] – Website, communication, and qualification complexities
• [19:23–31:33] – Youth programs, facility gaps, Minnesota and Nebraska models
• [33:46–41:06] – Organizational segmentation, promotion, and missed opportunities
• [52:14–63:31] – How to change/improve the youth-to-Olympics feeder system
• [67:32–72:22] – American grit, patriotism, and competitive culture

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Action Items & Community Call-Outs

• Roundtable Commitment: All agree to help organize a national roundtable for leaders across trap, skeet, sporting clays, and Olympic disciplines to break down silos and create a national pipeline. [45:07, 80:38]
• Kelly’s Call to Listeners:
  "Follow us on social, become a member if you’re compelled, give us feedback—especially on how to make shooting more TV-friendly for the LA Olympics. We need the community’s ideas and voices." [81:25]
• Host Invitation:
  "Email us or the Dead Pair podcast—bring us your ideas, let’s make this sport grow and give more kids opportunities to dream big." – Zach, 84:11

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is lively, frank, and full of camaraderie. There's a deep respect for tradition and a hunger for modernization. The hosts and guests are candid—sometimes even blunt—about the current limitations facing USA Shooting, but the spirit is collaborative and forward-looking, with frequent jokes, lighthearted jabs, and sincere stories from their own journeys.

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Key Takeaways

• USA Shooting is focused on reforming its athlete development pipeline, making Olympic dreams accessible to more shooters.
• Facility scarcity and communication are the biggest barriers to growing the Olympic side of American clay target sports.
• There’s a groundswell for more collaboration between organizations, better communication, and targeted investment in youth and grassroots programs.
• American shooters’ grit, DIY mentality, and unique cultural context are a source of both pride and competitive advantage.

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For more information about USA Shooting, joining as a member, or learning about qualification pathways, visit USA Shooting’s website and follow them on social media. Both Trap Talk and Dead Pair podcasts are eager to keep the conversation growing—reach out with ideas, questions, and support!

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to season four of Trap Talk,

[B]

brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.

[A]

Hey folks, if you're wondering where you can get your merch, head on down to shop Trap Talk podcast dot com.

[B]

Yes, folks, you can get hats, T shirts, sweatshirts. They even have a ladies tank, shooters, towels. We might have some new stuff coming out for the 2026 year. Who knows?

[A]

We got all the swag. Head on down to the website. Thank you so much for being Trap Talk supportive.

[B]

Thanks everyone.

[A]

Hello, Trap Talk listeners. I'm your host, Zach Denini. I'm here with my co host, Richard Marshall Jr. It's going to be a good day because normally it's me, Ricky and a guest, but there's all kinds of people on the show today. I'm excited for this. This is a free for all folks. Ricky, tell the folks what they can look forward to today.

[B]

Well, listen, this isn't just a Trap Talk from the Back Fenced episode either. We've got Dead Pair podcasts on here. Jason Rambo. And so welcome to the show, Jason.

[C]

What's up, Ricky? What's up, Zach?

[B]

Yep. And we, we got Cole Cushman from Gun and Trophy Insurance and then we got Kelly Reisdorf, which is the current CEO of USA Shooting. So this is going to be an episode about USA Shooting and what we can look forward to. We got the Olympics coming up here in 2028, so we want to kind of get a bunch of info for everybody out there. We got basically two years to to get rolling, but Cole from Gun and Trophy Insurance is the official insurance of USA Shooting. So we appreciate that from Cole because he's a big sponsor of us and Deadpear podcast.

[A]

I'm excited because it's been, I don't know, two or three years since we've been on Jason's podcast when we were actually down there. Yeah, he invited us down and we had way, way, way too much fun.

[B]

There's a, there's a lot loosers water tonight.

[A]

We're on the water today. But there's a lot looser regulations at the Dead Pair podcast than Trap Talk, so. So it was more of an uncensored kind of deal and I had so much fun. So we're so glad to have him on the show and he's a lot of inspiration for podcasts and clay pigeon shooting across the world and they've done such a great job and we're so excited to have them here today. So if anybody listening to our show wants to jump over and listen to their show, I promise it's entertaining and it'll give you a very good time. But getting back on the topic, Kelly, we're so glad to have you here today. We're so glad to hear about the progress that you guys are making and how important shooting is for the communities the so tell us a little bit about your background story and how you got involved in shooting U.S.A. sure.

[D]

So I'm glad you guys invited me on. I'm happy to be here and I love the story. So it's always fun to talk about it. I haven't done a ton of these since I've been heads down kind of working on the turnaround of the organization for the last two years. But I'm looking forward to doing kind of a lot more external stuff. So my background, I grew up in the Midwest. I was a Marine, I was an mp, finished college in the process of that and I thought I was going to be a marine for life and then God had other plans. I was thrown from a horse and broke a bunch of stuff and you know, kind of life changes right. So I have worked in the defense and shooting sports industry for the last 25 plus years. I don't want to age myself too much but you know, it's been like a long time so. And I left the corporate life about three and a half years ago. I was with my, my last corporate job was it was was with Honeywell that became Alliant, that then became Vista. And as you all know, Vista doesn't exist anymore. It's kind of in pieces and all private. And so I left in that whole sort of breaking up all the pieces. And I've been on my own since then. So I do a couple things. I run a small boutique consulting firm that does like crisis for companies. Usually when everybody's in tears and everything's awful, you come to hire me and then I sit on the board of that new sp grabagun.com that went public last July. So that's exciting. It's kind of the industry's first E commerce firearms retailer and then I run the shooting team and I started it, I started in this role over USA shooting about two years ago and the team was kind of in a bad way and I did not come from the Olympic movement but I'm long time 2A shooting sports. You know, I, I, you know I've kind of sort of told anybody who will listen, you know, I'll, you know, for, for my whole life with you know, my two hands in one brain and with resources I have I'll always do whatever I can to protect the shooting sports, to do what I can to put a moat around it. Um, it's a huge part of my life. I now hunt and shoot with my kids. You know, you guys were talking about hunting before we started. I used to have this huge hunting bucket list, and now I still have that. Don't get me wrong. But now I love doing it with my kids and then getting to see it and help them through their eyes. And so it's. It's so cool. So it's. It's a huge part of my life. Always will be. I'm also a conservationist at heart. It kind of goes hand in hand with it. And so, you know, where USA Shooting fits in with it is so interesting because it's sort of this. This part of the shooting sports that's. That's small but super important, filled with amazing, amazing stories and. And also for, you know, the. The people sort of in society that. That don't love the shooting sports that might want to either harm it or see the market shrink or, you know, you know, close more ranges. All of those types of, like, headwinds. The. The shooting, the Olympic sports of, you know, our paradisciplines, rifle, pistol, and shotgun, they're. They're sort of like, from a brand standpoint, you guys, you know, the. The enemies to freedom that, you know, it's kind of a. One of my phrases that I sort of. How I view it, you can't find anything wrong with the Olympic shooting team, you know, and so I feel like

[E]

that's the third most winning team out of all of ours, too.

[D]

It is. So it kind of bounces between the third, the fourth, and the fifth. If you go back to, like, 1896, you guys, I didn't bring PowerPoint slides and data.

[A]

That's okay. You know, a lot of our listeners, they start getting in the slides and they pass out. So it's better. You probably didn't. They'd be better off just looking and observing and learning today. We can pull some slides later. But, you know, that's very interesting, Cole, to bring that up is the amount of wins that. That it's actually brought medals to our country. That's huge.

[D]

Yeah, totally. We will have PowerPoint fun night some other time, but not today.

[B]

We got. We're not here to learn, really. We're here to discuss. But yet.

[D]

No, it's all good. No, but you guys, since 1896, our team has contributed around 5 to 6% of all Team USA medals for summer. It's. It's really incredible. And that's something. You know, our spend base is a fraction of some of what I call the big money sports. But that's something that makes me so proud. I mean, we're the only country in the world who has a second amendment, who has freedom over lawful firearms ownership. And it just makes me really proud. It kind of wraps it all into one very, very cool.

[B]

Now, quick question on the. On shooting or USA shooting with the athletes for the shotgun sports? So you got trap and ski. What. How many athletes are actually there now? Is there resonant? I mean, because years ago when I did it back in the 80s and late 80s and, and into the early 90s, you had resident athletes, you had a junior team. And I know now there's a lot of different teams where you got like SCTP teams and you such. Do you still have any resident athletes or.

[D]

No, not for shotgun. Shotgun for about. I want to say I'm not 100% sure, but about 10 or 11 years. I'll have to check my facts on that. But it's been decentralized for a long time and, and that is a little bit funding, but more so the Olympic movement as a whole, they are going away from being so like requiring athletes to be so geolocated in a certain area. They're really trying to have more flexible options for all sports to kind of meet Olympians, you know, wherever they are. And so for our sport, we still have the indoor range for rifle and pistol at Colorado Springs.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

Fort Car, Fort Carson, which, you know, I just went there for the first time in like last year and a half. We've been doing a ton. We've put money to basically because it's really hasn't been used for a long time. But it's. You guys, it's beautiful. It's gorgeous. And so we basically, as of kind of late last fall, we redid the clubhouse. We've gutted and redone the whole thing, serviced all the machines, everything. It's totally back up and ready to go. And so we're hoping to use it quite a bit this year. And all throughout the quad, it's open for holding events. We're looking at holding juniors camps there. It's really a very cool range.

[A]

So is it.

[B]

So now I know. So was the current, like, where's the. The home base for USA shooting? I know the Olympic Train center is Colorado Springs, but I know Hillsdale has their training facility. Is that now the current shotgun location for. Or is it just certain Events are

[D]

held there, just certain events. So they. They're definitely a valued partner. We hold. We try to hold our selection matches there, sometimes calendars on a line. We've been rotating between Hillsdale, the Tucson Range, and West Palm. I've been told that we probably can't hold selection. You guys have to tell me from your experience that we probably won't hold a selection at Fort Carson because of, like, the altitude and some other things. I don't know.

[B]

But, you know, targets can be, in my opinion, that they're a little different from shooting at Fort Carson. Then also you got the amu, the Army Marksmanship Unit, which is, you know, bending. They. I think they changed it back to Fort Benning now.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You know. Yeah. What was it?

[D]

I know.

[B]

Totally changed it and then back to Benning, so. But you got, like, Will Hinton and them guys down there. The targets there are a little tougher to shoot.

[D]

They are. Yeah.

[B]

So I would always say you want to train where your targets are the hardest. I would think going in true for, you know, to shoot World Cups and. And such. But, yeah, I know Tucson, because Zach and I will be there next week. We have the spring grand trap shoot coming up nice in Tucson. And actually, a good friend of mine, he's passed away now, but Bill Martin and his wife Leanne, she'll be there. But Bill's one that put all the money in and put in the five bunkers at Tucson. Yeah, he was the funding behind that.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So Zach's known him his whole life. And I've actually known Bill since I was, I think, 17. I knew him, but he passed away last June or May. I think it was the end of May when he passed away. 25. But, yeah, Bill was a big supporter of Tucson and the. The Olympic stuff. I mean, he loved it because, you know, everybody from different countries come over there and. And we had, I think there was two World Cups I was at there. The first one they had, and then the second one. Then I never went back to any other ones they had. But I know you have Tucson, then you have Hillsdale. I haven't been to the West Palm one. Is that a pretty good facility?

[D]

It is. It's really nice. We have a great partnership also with the Florida Game and Fish. We'll be down there. We're having kind of a invitational sort of fundraiser shoot on the 17th. But it's a. It's a beautiful range, and, you know, Florida is very good to us, and it's a great partnership with the game and Fish. Folks, which is super important. So.

[B]

Nice.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

If you don't mind, guys, I'd like to ask her a question. So we've had. We had Kelly Browning and we also had Derek mine on our show, who are past Olympians, and I think they're going for it again this year or for the next Olympics. They've been through the process. But on your website, because I get asked this a lot, believe it or not. Is there somewhere on there or someone that is an aspiring individual that wants to try and make the Olympics, Is there the qualification processes or a breakdown on there, what they need to go, where they need to go, how they need to go about doing it?

[D]

Yes. But the way that it is currently, I just want to start with a qualifier and say that it could be a lot better. But I would say I'm going to plug USA Archery for a second and say how awesome their website is. That is goals for us. Within two clicks, you can. Now, granted, they don't have the amount of events that we do, but within two clicks, you can answer the question of how do I make the team? So how you make the team? And kind of the pathway is very different for pistol, for rifle, for shotgun, trap and skeet. And even I want to ask you guys that conversion from American to international, that's a big topic on my mind too, with these grassroots organizations and then for para. So we kind of have like, you know, four very different answers across those disciplines. But yeah, on our website, you can go to athletes, you can look at our selection procedures, the qualification, the scores. We also, last year we've implemented an MQS score. So depending on you based on your event and where you might compete, you can see what scores you kind of need to be shooting at internationally to be eligible to go to a World cup or a World Championship and things like that. And then we also, on our events page, we have our open sort of when we do our open selections across the board. And those are great opportunities across, you know, all the disciplines. So.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I'm just looking at it a little bit and it is. It is kind of difficult to. To find because I get the same thing like Rambo said, you know, he's had Kaylee and. And Derek and stuff on them. We've had Derek on multiple times on the podcast and such. And we actually had. Yeah, we had Holine. And who else do we have? Glenn Eller, Zach, I think at the Shot show.

[A]

Josh Richmond or Josh Rich.

[B]

So Josh. I've known Josh since he was a little kid. Because he grew up shooting ata.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's how long I've done that agent myself. But yeah, I mean, you got. Well, Rachel. Rachel Tozer, which.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Knows her really well. He went to college with her. So they're the same.

[D]

Such a small. It's like such a small world, you guys like. And these are all such cool people, you know?

[B]

Yeah. So I would like to see it a little simpler because I get asked all the time because I teach a ton of youth that are always like, hey, they inspire. What's your number one goal? They want to be an Olympian. And they always try to find stuff and parents will call and they're like, how do I do this? And I always tell them, well, call Derek or get a hold of Josh or somebody that's in it that can give them some info.

[D]

It's so interesting that you say that. So I was at our fall Tucson selection match just in October, and I talked with mostly trap parents. But that is the story that I heard over and over again was that it was kind of cumbersome on the website and like, where, you know, a lot of them had to find friends, go to local clubs to figure out, you know, what's the collegiate pathway for shotgun. Where are the high school programs? What is this American trap business versus international. And. And I went back to my team and I was like, you guys, we, we really need to focus on just the content and simplifying our website structure to be a value add. And you got one thing I'd like to do, you guys, is actually I was thinking about hosting something at Colorado Springs or. Maybe.

[C]

Cool.

[D]

We can just, you can host our party. But I would really like to have the leaders of all of the grassroots shotgun programs together for like a day and a half summit. And I'm not trying to invent more work, but I want the chance to meet and get to know all of them to explain why I'm here, why I'm doing this, explain our strategy for la. It's not just la, you guys, it's Brisbane. Because, you know, we have, you know, we've got our kind of top national team members right now, but I'm like, who is going to make the Olympic team for Brisbane? What programs do we need to make now for that? And so I want us to be more integrated with all those grassroots programs, not to take away compete. I have zero interest in competing for members. Any of that I want to talk about. You know, we have. So I did join the board of our, the International Federation issf. Issf about six months after I took this job. And it is so eye opening, you guys, to see the white space of so many of the everyone else that we compete with internationally is primarily nation state funded. And ours is obviously a private model. These countries, their market, their shooting sports markets are fully optimized. They have markets that are this big and they're leaving nothing on the table. We are the opposite. Our market is this big and we're leaving a ton on the table. And I, and I fully, you guys know this. I own. There's been USA shooting, organizational issues. Like I get it, but I'm kind of like, I want to really be a good partner and, and I want to talk about how we, you know, it's not just, you know, from the time when a 12 year old raises their hand and says, hey mom or hey dad, that looks kind of fun. But then it's also being there when you've got, you know, like the strongest kids in ata that may be interested in learning international when they're ready for it. Like, I want to talk through all those transitions and how we can all partner to meet these kids where they're at.

[A]

That to me, I 100% agree with everything you're saying. And I think when I started shooting, it was 2004 and I was 13 at the time. And going through collegiate shooting and moving up the ranks of the ATA at the time there wasn't really a good system to get from ATA to international. And the biggest barrier a lot of the time was there wasn't a bunker around where I was in the part of country. So I came from San Jose, California. The closest bunker was six hours away from me down south. I mean I could drive down there to do that. So I think, you know, the biggest barrier for a lot of people is one, finding a range to shoot the game. I mean, and we're talking trap, not skeet, but that's a huge barrier for us. And then two, all of the information that I got from it was from friends. So one of my really good friends, her name was Julie Stallings and, and she shoots a lot of bunker around the country and did it. But she would be the person that would say, hey, this is where you go, this is what you do. And it was very much exactly like you said, if you didn't know the right people and you weren't in the clique and you didn't ask the right questions, it was like, where do I go? When do I get there? You know, these kids are involved, but these kids aren't involved. And sometimes there's some really good shooters over here, but they never got a chance at it. And then there's some people that got a chance at it and you know, and you can't really figure out the rhyme or the reason why. And it's like this is really not putting the best foot forward to give us an opportunity to maximize the most amount of medals because there's a lot of really, really good quality shooters that have never even swung at the game. And that. That scares me.

[E]

What's the cost to shoot the difference between traditional trap. I mean, is something that the different grands, you know, to get a course set up there. It seems like a natural place to at least kind of consolidate some of the best shooters.

[A]

You know, Rick, when you're riding around your air conditioning and your nice can am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself, where do I get one of these things?

[B]

At big red motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.

[A]

I mean, I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean, my face is on the back, but help me out.

[B]

Listen, I'm gonna move your face to the bumper is where it's gonna get moved for the new one, okay? All you need is a little quiche and we can take care of you. But listen, Big RedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and george lee and big red motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery.

[A]

You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind and knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens, I can get my winig and my craig off replaced quickly and easily. Without costing me a bunch of money.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance. It's the best out there to ensure your guns, sure. Your trophy, animals, everything.

[A]

Thank you to the whole cushman family for supporting the show and everything they do for trap shooter.

[B]

Absolutely. Get a hold of Cole cushman and he'll get you set up.

[A]

You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now is a bunch of gold and silver from ron prescott at mid state precious metal. Show them the goods.

[B]

Listen. Oh, I got silver right now. I won't bring the gold out for

[A]

Zach, but you know I always want to get that gold.

[B]

Shotgun shells, 10 ounce bars, folks. He could do anything for you for all your Shoot needs. Give Ron Prescott a call. Midstate Precious Metals dot com.

[A]

He's a great guy. Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports trap talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron Prescott at Midstate Precious Metals. Thank you, Ron.

[B]

That's right. Thanks for all the support.

[C]

Speak a little bit for that. I know that setting up a bunker range is tenfold the talk of a trap or a skate range, and that's in credit to what Zach said. You know, there's no discredit to the sport. There's a trap and skeet range on every street corner. A bunker is something. There's. I think there's. Ricky helped me out here. Is there really, like 10 good bunkers across the country?

[B]

I mean, yeah, there's more and more coming around. People are. Are doing them. I mean, like, Derek Mine just put in his own bunker. I think he's having a shoot coming up. But, yeah, realistically, you. You've only got maybe 10, 12 locations that can have it, versus there's a trap field in every county, basically, you know.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

In the cost, because I. I would say the cost to build a bunker. I know when they built the ones in Tucson, I knew the cost back then, but of course, prices went up. But I'm gonna guess it's going to cost you, at minimum, a couple hundred thousand dollars easily, you know, so. And like Zach said, too, I mean, he started no. 4, I started in 88 and 87, started competing in 88, and then, boom, went to the camps at the training center, like we talked about before. We were recording that Randy Moeller ran the NRA facility there. Training center had these camps, and I thought that was the greatest thing because it brought together all these kids that were ATA shooters and got, you know, coaching and tutelage from, you know, Lloyd Woodhouse.

[D]

Lloyd Woodhouse, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Garrett. Tom Garrigus was, you know, one of them. And then later on, Brett Erickson, which was the coach of the Olympic team, and Brett's actually from Bennington, Nebraska, just up the road for me, but. And he was an Olympian also. So I. I don't see any of those camps or hear much about them anymore, except for every once in a while I'll hear about the SCTP stuff, I think. Side of it. I think they're doing some stuff. And Kenzie Dusen, who's on the. The. I think so. I did lessons with her in ATA trap.

[D]

You did?

[B]

Yeah, she's from Ohio, so I did lessons with her. And then she won the, like, the Ohio Handicap or something. Great girl. And she has done a ton of stuff with social media. I mean, she is Johnny on the spot, which that's what you need to do to be successful. You got to get out there and get sponsors and such. But I just. I would like to see some coming together of the organizations to promote and have these camps, because I think if you have these camps and you get 25 kids to come and you get 10%, two to three kids, that, yeah, rise the. The path. That's what we need. Because the United States has the best shooters, hands down, in my opinion.

[D]

And even just think about. I mean, we all know I didn't live it, but you guys have. But, you know, the whole USA shooting history. Think about what we can do for the country if we really try, right? If we don't have all these problems and we're actually integrated and working together. Because that, to me, puts a lot of fire emojis in my belly and makes me very excited, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So.

[B]

No, that is true.

[A]

That's where I got. Like yesterday, I was watching. We were watching the super bowl, and I didn't have a dog in the fight in the super bowl, unfortunately. But I watched one of the commercials where it was all of the NBA players, you know, and it was like, versus the world, it said at the end of it. And I was watching this, and I'm like, okay, this is the Olympics. An Olympic AD USA versus the world, with all the NBA players. And I'm thinking, okay, you got. You got LeBron, you got all these other guys that are. That are amazing. And it's like, for the NBA, you know, this is. You know, they. They find the best and the best of the best, but for shooting, are they really finding the best of the best? Are we even attracting all of the opportunities that we could for this game? And. And unfortunately, I don't. I mean, I know there's some great shots, obviously, but there's just not a lot of people that get a swing at it. And I think, you know, that. I guess, to help with the. The range clarification question, is there a way that ranges could partner with shooting USA or say, hey, we want to put a bunker in, you know, subsidize it? Or is there any help on that end? What does that look like for getting more ranges available to people?

[D]

I love. Oh, I love that question, Zach. And we didn't script any of this, but that is a perfect. Is a perfect question. It's like something good. Yeah. What Is it every once in a while us blind squirrels finds an acorn.

[A]

You know, that's me. I'm just over here with my eye patches finding nuts all day.

[D]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply you were blind.

[A]

It's okay. They do it all. Enough. But you know what, Kelly? I usually hit the questions. All right. Ask the listeners.

[D]

No, it's good. So we can be a resource for that. Absolutely. So now we're not sitting on piles of money. We don't issue grants. However, as the national governing body, we will help with finding partners and what we find a lot too. With our high net worth donors and a lot of the industry organizations that are grant issuing foundations, they love matching programs they want to see. So there's a couple in the works right now. I'm hoping that I don't want to jinx them, but you know that we play a part in connecting with Midway or other grant issuing organizations that are very match friendly to find. Maybe there's a component where it's. The parents have a small portion of it plus local DNR or BLM resources partnered with Midway and another. There's a lot of those. And so we will do whatever we can to certify that range to endorse those grant applications to help keep the process moving and basically serve as a, as a, as an entity that can help get rid of roadblocks and things like that. So I wouldn't say we are just like writing checks like crazy for that, but we really want more places for kids to shoot. Even in Minnesota, you know, we, you know, we are the largest now I think I haven't seen 2025 numbers but for 2024, you guys, we're like triple. Like the amount of kids in trap high school program is three times. We're the state of hockey. That's why I'm here because my kids are on the hockey cult.

[B]

We're trapped.

[D]

But we have over three times the amount of kids in trap shooting leagues than even hockey players.

[A]

Like what do you guys.

[B]

I think it's 15,000. High school kids are 20,000.

[D]

It's somewhere between like 14 and 15 and change. And I haven't seen 2025 number final yet, but that's like more than the whole state of Texas is. I mean and so the media doesn't cover it here. Which is another thing on my problems to deal with when I have time. Yeah, we won't go into that right now but.

[A]

Well, all we got to do is get a couple of those daycare shut down in Minnesota. And we can get some ranges out there. You know, that's the secret. We got to work on that.

[E]

That was Kelly's other consulting job center.

[D]

Maybe fundraising.

[C]

Just.

[D]

Maybe fundraising center.

[A]

Just, Just, just call up Uncle Trump and say, hey, we need, we need these hot for places to stay. And we're shooting out here now. We're doing it.

[E]

She's a great how to video on how to become a daycare center owner.

[B]

Oh, I knew, I knew Zach was gonna go there.

[D]

I know. I just, I said, but, you know, it's, it's. It's all good.

[A]

But you can't leave me doors open or I'm gonna close them every once in a while.

[D]

I know I walked into that one. But you guys, it is so cool to me that there's that many. I mean, this sport is really for everyone. You know, in hockey, you have to start. I mean, all my kids started when they were like three. That's just the way it is in this sport. You can start at any age, any athletic ability, any body type, and you can actually have a home on a team, and you can, you can be amazing. And it's. It's so awesome to me, it's really for everybody. And so, you know, I want for the industry to understand more. I mean, this is an example. Minnesota is a small example of sort of the, the untapped demand that we have, not just to, like, strengthen the pipeline, but you guys, the other half of me is just as motivated and excited. I want all those kids to keep shooting for life and be a part of, like the, the family of the shooting sports. To use sort of touchy feely language, but that's what I want, you know, for all of us.

[B]

Yeah, no, it is, it is great. And that's the one thing is you talk about Minnesota's youth program. I was up there one year back, and I think it was 2017 or 18. I came up to the. The Minnesota State high school shoot and was at the shoot for five days, and it was a thousand kids each day or 1200 each day. And they had it 10 days. There was 10,000.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, wow.

[C]

I think it.

[D]

I think it's up to like 12 or 13 days now. But yeah, because it's literally a thousand kids a day. It's a day.

[B]

And it's. So it's by division and by, you know, experience and how good they are is how they kind of think each team comes, you know, competes against their deal that day or whatever. But see, I grew up in The Nebraska here in our youth program. So we're the longest running youth program of like 50. I think it's 55 or 56 years. Yeah, we have about 22 to 2500 kids a year because we're maxed out. It's a two day shoot. That's it. They don't, they won't extend it. It's only two days. It's. You shoot singles on one day and handicap on the other. It's actually three days. And then the first day is junior high kids. So those kids shoot 100 singles. But I know the army team has been there and done some trick shooting and such. Richmond used to come because he was in charge of the trick shooting all that, but and talked to some of the kids and it kind of lit a little bit of fire under some of them and then boom, it kind of went away. So that's why I'm kind of getting back to, to talking about maybe these camps or just even some, some, you know, meetings or such to get to where we could do some camps, you know, and we've got the ability with our podcast and Rambo does with his. Yeah, get it out to the masses. Because everybody that listens this podcast is a shooter, or we do have some that are non shooters because they're friends have been on the podcast, so they still listen. So. And we appreciate that. But people love to watch the Olympics. You know, I mean, I knew I do every year. I mean, I sit down and watch them and. Yeah, so. But the shooting, you don't get to see much of it.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's kind of censored at some level. Right. I mean, it's. Anything to do with guns is not out there in the public's view. And I think another area where all of these associations have room and opportunity to grow is in every other thing that we see and do across the country, whether it's golf or football or tennis or going to play topgolf. There's signs, there's adage, there's commercials, there's, there's marketing to it. And then you have these sports where you won't see an ad anywhere that says, hey, go trap shoot or go go skeet shoot or go sporting clay shoot. I mean, you won't see other than, you know, a couple little niche podcasts and you know, some people getting together and banding around trying to market it. Even the associations aren't always marketing their own material, which I find that fascinating because, you know, why wouldn't they want to find other people and grow cross sectional into the hunting market or into these other areas where you have people that enjoy shotgun sports. But now they're not pulling them over into these clay sports and vice versa. There should be more cross pollination than there is between a lot of these associations. And I think that's, yeah, that's the big, the big goal.

[C]

Shooting sports in the whole field of sports were kind of like the speakeasy, you know, the grand scheme. But credit to the nssf, you know, they do have programs like their plus one program where. And you're taking people out, they incentivize that. Right. So they're. Yeah, credit to them for doing it. Kelly, if you don't mind, I wanted to ask, you mentioned Midway and I'm assuming you're talking about usa.

[D]

Yes, sorry.

[C]

Yeah, we've done a lot with them with the podcast and it's amazing because they not only give grants to like youth teams and stuff, but for someone that's building a facility. Yeah, especially if it's for like USA shooting or a youth program. They do have grants and funding for that. So do you guys work with them, like to try and match those grants? Is that what you're telling us?

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So they have outside of kind of what you consider traditional funding. And I don't, I don't work for Midway usa, you know, I just, you know, just to be clear. Yeah, but they do, they do have kind of a whole series of buckets that support their, you know, strategic pillars as to their reason for, you know, existing. And they've got quite a bit of funds earmarked for standards and improvement in coaching. Right. Coaching credentials, continuing education, which is super, super important. And I realize I do want to ask you guys about the American international transitions. We'll get to that later. But I know it's your podcast and I shouldn't show up for questions, but I, I do.

[B]

But your world, we're just living in it.

[D]

Yeah, but then, but then also for ranges for range improvements, the building out of new ranges, infrastructure, they have a whole sort of investment program because they do realize that that's a scarce commodity and that is an absolute headwind to ongoing continued participation. And so they want to sort of be, I would say, anywhere and everywhere when it comes to range development, range improvement, things like that. So they're a great, great partner for that. So definitely.

[A]

Yeah, I love that.

[E]

Would you be on board with, you know, any sort of bunker transition? I mean, there, it seems like it needs to be brought in at the, really the ata level for that?

[B]

I, I think so, Cole. And, and that's something that, I mean, we're gonna have the, supposed to have the president of the ata, Joe Sasano, on the show here coming up here shortly. So, and that's something that I, I will ask and, and ask the executive committee members. You know, Zach and I know all of them pretty well. And, and you know, know the executive director, Lynn Gibson too. And that's something that we can, you know, throw at him and say, hey, we ought to look at something like this and, and try to, you know, we want shooting sports to grow as a whole. You know, it's not about, oh, traps better than skeeter, skeets better, and trap or sporting clips is better than this or international skeet or, or, you know, bunker, blah, blah, blah. It's clay target shooting as a whole.

[A]

And I think it's all segment.

[E]

It's so segmented right now. If you gotta blend some of these segments together a little bit and really to help it grow.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with that 100%, Cole. And you know, it's, it's funny because, like, you know, Ricky and Zach are on the trap side of things when it comes to the sporting clay side. Like, that can never be an Olympics because the targets aren't regulated. However, the vast majority of people in sporting clays that really wish they could go to the Olympics, they automatically gravitate towards the bunker because that's about the closest you're going to get. Discipline.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And I just don't see there's, there's not enough credit to Zach, what he said. There's not enough promotion, there's not enough advertising and there's not enough knowledge. Even though we've had these bunker shooters, you know, like Kaylee and Derek on our show that have explained the process, there's still, I think there's a lack of knowledge of what they've got to do to, to try and make it right. And I think somehow or another, like, like you said, Ricky, it's all clay target. Right. We can, we can argue in the locker room whose is the coolest, but yeah, in the grand scheme of things, it's Kelly's here for USA Shooting, man. I mean, there's so much pride these guys and gals have to shoot for their country. And I think a lot of people have that motivation and they have that inspiration to do that. They just don't know how. And yes, and I do know how, they don't know where to go to do it. So.

[D]

Yeah, and I think it's really. I would say I've only kind of been in this space for two years, and it's on us to also be available and be there. And so I kind of mentioned bringing these groups together and kind of going through the vision. But, you know, I've learned from some of our more tenured athletes that Lloyd Woodhouse back in the day used to actually go to all of the national championships for all the feeder systems. And he would. He would have a check in hand and he would offer a paid spot for one or two or three kids to go come and train at Colorado Spring. I mean, that kind of stuff changes lives. So I want to, you know, we can do that. I want to get back to being available, not. Not taking away from those groups, but being a part of the journey and the pathway for these.

[A]

Well, sometimes the sport gives you a really special person that could have the opportunity to do that and to say, okay, you know, there's a lot of good truck and shooters, you know, but there's maybe that one or two people that are special and they don't have the resources or the ability or the understanding that they have the gifts and the ability to do something like that. And, you know, you open that door and you give them the opportunity and they jump through it and then, boom, you've got something. But you know how many people have came and went and lost their, you know, their youth and not their abilities because they never. They never really pursued the opportunity. They didn't know it was available.

[C]

That it.

[B]

Just like you said, Zach, they didn't have the funding themselves or their parents didn't to continue to shoot.

[A]

You know, Ricky, I know you use it on your barrels, but you even know what RGS stands for?

[B]

No, Zach, what does it stand for?

[A]

Really good.

[B]

Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels and it does make them shine.

[A]

Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy, so I got to be better at that. But it's gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.

[B]

That's right. Give RGS a try. We appreciate all the support. Hey, Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?

[A]

You know, I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't you need to go give it a check out?

[B]

We'll all have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot

[A]

some 40 clays, then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it. If you haven't, guys, check them out. You know, Rick, I. I know you've had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started. But I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping. You know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system.

[B]

It's the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in double from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph, you can see it on video.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, if you talk about that J Hook with Sean Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop and I think that's really powerful if you're doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. They love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great product.

[B]

Take Aim Technologies.

[A]

Hey, Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw Engineering and the Freston family for supporting trap shooting and supporting Trap Talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.

[B]

Yeah, I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and the family, they're great supporter of the show. Coop just won the autumn grand Handicap championship with a 97.

[A]

I know, I was there. I got to interview him.

[B]

It was great.

[A]

I was so proud of him. He's doing a great job. Hashtag, where's Coop? He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun.

[B]

So that's.

[A]

You need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you. Great folks.

[B]

Thanks for all the support.

[A]

Outlaws Law. Rick, I really think that gunfit is probably the most important part of shooting big scores. Would you agree with that?

[B]

Absolutely. I think gunfit is the most important thing.

[A]

I mean, most of the top all Americans are shooting custom stocks. I know when I got my custom stock, my scores went up. I broke 100 trip in the 27 within seven days. I mean, I'm sure your experience has been similar.

[B]

Yeah, I've been shooting a custom gun stock for 20 years. Winning. If you want to win championships, get a win a gun stock.

[A]

Yeah. Call Bobby, call Luke. I mean, we got the stock whisperer over There, Bill. Give them a shot. They're great and they know what they're doing.

[B]

Absolutely. Winig.com check them out. Because it is, it is more expensive to shoot bunker because of your travel and, and all that, but it is, everybody wants to, to win a medal. When growing up as a little kid, I remember watching the Olympics being like, man, this would be awesome if you, you know, and It's. You're the 1 percenter now. And that's where like I said earlier, you know, with our podcast and stuff, we have that ability to get this out to more people so we can maybe hopefully start or be a part of starting a feeder system to, you know, come into it. But it is one thing that, you know, a lot of people don't understand, so they just kind of brush it off, you know, unless you are the very few. Like, you know, the Derek Mine. I mean, Derek Mine's one of the top all around.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Shooting all the games. He could shoot at gun pointer in the world.

[D]

He can shoot anything.

[A]

Yeah, he can shoot a broomstick. I mean, the guy's got a lot of talent and.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, you think about it like

[B]

beat him in the all around. Shoot off of the grand that year though. I will give you credit, Zach, we

[A]

won't talk about that because I don't want that dog getting up off the ground. You just leave him be. Okay? I learned a long time ago you don't poke the bears. You just leave them go, you know, But Kelly, I want.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

No, no, I was just going to finish and just say, hey, it is one of those deals where I think we could start like a big round table discussion.

[D]

I would, if you guys would help me do that. I would love to do that.

[B]

Absolutely. I think it'd be awesome to get all of us and you know, Jason there, you know, myself, Zach, and even these leaders and say, hey, because we're all shooters and we can get some sporting shooters there that want to shoot bunker like a Derek Mine, you know, get even, you know, past shooters or current, you know, bunker shooters. Glenn Eller, you know, Will Hinton, Rachel, stuff that have experience in this. And even someone like, you know, Kenzie Dusen who's coming up and this girl, I see her all the time. She, I mean, she's striving to get better and that's the future.

[D]

Very impressive too. Kinsey is. And so I would love, I would love welcome the help on that. And you know, kind of like I said in the intro, I mean, it's obvious Like, I. I didn't come from competitive shooting, but I know organizations and I'm. You guys know my why, and I'm not here for that. But I can offer so much else in terms of bringing these groups together and developing these pathways and partnerships. You know, I joke with Vinnie sometimes. I'm like, vinnie, before we're all done with the LA Olympics, can you just help me hit one target? He's like, kelly, I think we can do a little better than that. Exactly.

[A]

Way better. Way, way, way better than that. For sure.

[D]

Yeah, I know, I know, but I

[A]

know we've been asking a lot of questions, but I want to give you an opportunity to kind of kick stuff back at us. Kelly, you know, you said a few things that you wanted to bring up. What questions or direction do you want to go with this today? Because we're here, you know, instead of us asking and putting it in a direction, where do you want to go? And what would you like to share with the listeners?

[D]

Well, so I would say, well, the question for you guys first, and I've got lots of comments for the listeners, too, and I want to talk about USA shooting, because I'm super proud of it and what we're doing. One, one thing I, I keep kind of asking around, trying to understand is, you know, why do we have American styles first and then go to international? I know. Don't. You cannot laugh or judge me. And this is live. So, you know, we're, you know, this is, you know, the gospel, and I'm admitting it. No, it's okay. It's all good. But why wouldn't we just start with one style? Why have the two?

[A]

Well, do you want to answer this?

[B]

Yeah, I can answer. I mean, I've shot. I shot a lot of bunker in those four or five years and such, and ata, too. But the difference is bunker targets are faster. And now back when I shot them, we got to shoot the same shells. Now It's. You're shooting 7, 8 ounce, where in the ATA, we're shooting an ounce and an eighth or up to an ounce and an eighth. You can. So you're shooting a faster shell at bunker, but less BBs. Okay. So it is a harder game. So starting with that, people get discouraged when they can't hit targets. So I always said. And. And this is growing up, when Lloyd Woodhouse was recruiting shooters to shoot, we had double trap back then. Okay. And that's why Kim Rhodey shot double trap.

[D]

That's how she started. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Then she went into ski, of course, but you know, and, and like Glenn Eller, I mean, he was one of the world's best double trap shooters, hands down.

[D]

So.

[B]

And you take, they used to take the double trap shooter. So whoever shot ata doubles really well. You got to go those camps. And that was me. I was a very, very good double shooter. So they were like, yep, you're coming. And it was fun. And, and then it was like, just like Zach said. The range, it was six hours for me. Six and a half, seven to Colorado Springs was the closest range. So who can drive out there every week and shoot? Yeah, so that's your, that's the difference of why people aren't starting in that versus Americans.

[A]

You know, it would be very simpler to simulate it to, you know, you have, you know, the, the, the golden teaser, the, the ladies teas, the closer, easier the mini putt. But like, if you say, if you say American trap, like American trap, they can build an American trap house. I mean, I've literally seen these things built out of logs and you could put one up for, you know, 10 grand if you had to do it. But, you know, you build a really nice trap and that's, you know, gonna cost a lot less than a bunker. And you can have them all over the country and they're easy to get into. And it's relatively easy to show someone how to hit one of these birds right off the bat and get addicted to it because it's a simpler sport. Now when you start adding the speed, the variation of angle, the height and the height and the lack of places to actually shoot the sport, it becomes more difficult. Right, right here in St. Louis alone, operating, there's only one bunker. It's specific Pacific, Pacific range, St. Louis trap and skeet. One bunker that's operating okay. And that's in all of the whole St. Louis market for trap ranges. There's within an hour, there's like five or six. And so you can get to a trap range relatively quickly, easily, and shoot and join a bunch of new shooters that are doing it for fun.

[B]

Where a bunker.

[A]

You know, you go out there the first time you ever handle a shotgun and you're going to almost feel like you're making a fool of yourself because it's like this is really difficult, really fast paced, really, you know, on another level. And I think that's why it's really important to get people, you know, hitting the targets. And then once they get foundational, you know, support, they say, okay, I can do this. Let's take them up to the next Level of hard. Let's go, you know, one step higher. One step higher and walk them up.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, you know, if. If they can't hit American Trap, they're not going to be bunker shooters. You know, if you. You at least need to be able to say, okay, I can hit these ones. And now of the hundred people that are hitting American Trap, maybe the top 2 or 3% that are really up there, those are the ones that are going to become the bunker shooters and the Derek Mines, the future killers of the world that hit everything. And I. I mean, if there was as many bunkers as there was trap ranges, then maybe. But there's not. There's. There's just. There's only a few across the country, and they're generally scheduled to be open. Like, you have to call in advance and schedule it. And it's not just like an open to the public type of thing.

[B]

Yeah. The only one that's really not Kelly. That you can go to any time that when they're open is Tucson Trapped ski.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Or Cardinal. Yeah, Cardinal has theirs open, too. And that's so between those. But Tucson, I mean, it's open usually every day. I think that they're open that you can go down and shoot bunker, because they don't.

[A]

And I know that. I know that Livermore trapping skeet. And Brian Weeks is doing the same now. He's got really opening it up. He's got a bunker there, but they're leaving it open on public days, which, you know, that's a big deal. And so there's a lot more shooters coming out of that part of the country now that are joining the game because they have access to the game.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Where you don't have access to. You're not. You're not going to be able to do it.

[D]

Right. Right. You know, if you guys could change one thing, either add, change or take away from, you know, our shotgun juniors program, as you kind of see it from the outside looking like, what's one thing that you would want to see different or change or add or anything? Anything's fair game.

[B]

Good. Zach, you go first.

[A]

I would think the one thing that I would add is I would give an opportunity or a shot to the top three to five best in the division in our area and allow them the opportunity to go try it at some level, a trial camp or a trial area or some kind of opportunity to say, okay, these guys are already excelled. They're already at the highest level of the sport. Let's see what they got. And let's see, with coaching staff and watching is any of them have. Have what it takes to cut. To cut it. And from there an opportunity would open where, you know, for me, I made it to the level where I was one of the top juniors and nobody ever approached me to say, hey, do you want to try this? And I never got my shot.

[B]

And for three years, Zach was the number one junior shooter in the world

[A]

in American track, so. So when you're doing. So I got to that level where I'm like, okay, I can do this, but I never got the opportunity. I never even got a chance to swing at it because I didn't know the right people, I didn't have the right clicks. I just didn't do that right. So it's like how many of those people are doing what we do, get to the high level and can win, but don't get a shot because they weren't asked or an opportunity never presented itself. And I think there's a lot walking by because of that.

[B]

Yeah, I, I would say, Kelly, that I would go back to the camps. Like I participated in the one week or two week camps.

[D]

The.

[B]

I know the one week camp. I think the kids got their entry fees covered in partial ammo. I think I know the two week. Everything was paid for your stay, everything at Colorado Springs, the whole works. You had the cafeteria, you know, and such. And, and. But those camps, we got a lot of training, so Woodhouse was there and Tom Garrigus and I, and there was a few other coaches I think that they brought in. But that is something that I think if you went back to something like that or got partnered. I know SCT and I don't know the SCTP camps. I've heard about them, but I know no information and never got any information. And even some of my kids that I teach, a big group, they, they've looked at it well, you know, we're not so sure. But going back to something where you take the top sub juniors, which is up in the ETA, which is up to the age of 15, and then you take the juniors, which is up to the age of 18, and then Junior Golds, which is what, Zach? 23, I think now.

[A]

23, 23 is you.

[B]

Those three divisions and just take the top 10 kids of each one. That's 30 kids.

[A]

Or at least invite them, right?

[B]

Invite them and say, hey, at least

[A]

give them an opportunity.

[B]

It's, you know, we're gonna cover if it's a week, you know, maybe have them charge or pay a Little bit out of their pocket, whatever it might be. But have them come and have them work with people, you know, and say, hey, and see kind of what they're. And you can even have, you know, ATA coaches there. You could have, you know, the bunker coaches and such people like Derek, Mine, Glenn out. Ask these people, Rachel, you know, they.

[A]

They do it. And, you know, it doesn't have to be free because you have to realize and aren't skin in the game. There's nothing free. So all of these people that are already shooting at the top level, they're already paying to travel in hotels and all that other stuff. So even if it was just like, hey, the camp fee is $500 or $11,000 or whatever it is one time, and they get good value for it, you'll have people sign up. I mean, if. If the. The, you know, the hotel's free or the food's free or the targets are free, and you just got to get your plane ticket here to come and try it out. And that's what it is. Well, then that's what it is. But it's not like these people aren't already traveling and shooting. They are. So they're used to having some skin in the game, and I think having some skin in the game is a valuable concept for all young people to learn. I just love the way they're covering all the shoots across the country, the content, the pictures, what they're doing online, what they're doing on Facebook, Instagram. What do you think?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Traption usa, it's a great magazine. They are the official magazine of our podcast, and we. We are the official podcast of Traption usa. So we really appreciate it.

[A]

That's really cool. And what they got is a deal right now. If you put Trap Talk P in for the print version and Trap Talk D for the digital version, it's 19.99 for the print and $9.99 for the digital for one year. You're not going to find a better deal. So subscribe today. You won't regret it.

[B]

Absolutely. Thank you for all the support.

[A]

You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot, and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played if the event's paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with. With the app?

[B]

Listen, SOS Clay's app. It's the best thing out there, folks. You see everything. It's great. You see your option payouts. You can see when you're up, you can see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but

[A]

it's, I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg, get a hold hold of them. He'll set you up, he'll get you running. Right. And if you pay the, the premium once a year you get free pre squatting in all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoot.

[B]

Absolutely. SOS clays.com I think, I think the

[C]

biggest complaint I have is communication.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Nationals and it's arguably the largest clay target shoot in the world. Right. I mean you got 3, 500 kids competing across a week and a half. They're going to fire over a million rounds. All the moms. I mean, it's huge, right? The communication from, hey, when you're done with this, there's, you can go to the NSCA sporting clay side. I don't know how it is for you guys on ata that communication. A lot of these kids are seniors in high school getting ready to go to college. They don't even know the NSCA exists. And then I come to find out when I dig a little deeper, it's 10 times worse when it comes to bunker and the Olympics and there's no communication there. And it's like, why are we not, you know, and I've complained to the NSCA about this. Why are we not at this organization at these national championships, at these regional qualifiers telling these kids that, look, you're not done when you get to senior level, if you want to continue doing this, there's collegiate programs and then outside of that, we have a whole professional organization you can go compete in. And like I said, when I, when I dug a little deeper, I found out it's even worse for bunker.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Big for ski. And I don't know trap, but I don't know anything about the ski side either. But there's a lot of these kids are amazed. It's like, wait a minute, you're going to go shoot a tournament this weekend. It's like, you, you got to be kidding me. You've been competing in SCTP for 5 years. Never even knew this organization, organization existed.

[B]

I think Jason, talking about that with that SCTP and stuff. And I don't, I, I think there's some, some clashing, you know, going on there and I hope we can work that out because I was a college Coach, Kelly, for 10 years, started a team, did all that. And I had kids that would come, that never even knew sporting clays any. And I'm like, you know, well, yeah, I shot this little small deal and it was a 4H, we shot trap only or what, and, and such. And, you know, I just got back this whole week, which is Zach's alma mater. I was teaching the Lindenwood Shotgun sports team, which is, you know, hands down the number one, what, 18 time National Collegiate champion team. I taught them all week. And I worked with Rocky Romo, who's the current world 12 gauge ski champion.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And shooting trap with Rocky. And it was funny because it's 20 degrees out and blowing and Rocky's wearing shorts. He's from California. So, you know, but talking to these,

[A]

we don't have to get into that. But most ski shooters, they're kind of like that. They're a little different.

[B]

So you just. But it's, it's a weird deal. I've talked to a lot of these kids and I, you know, no one ever mentions anything on the Olympics. And it kind of like breaks my heart because when I was a kid shooting, that's what you know, and I did it and I was behind, you know, Josh Lakatos won the silver, and then Lance Bade, that's who I shot with and against, and Steve Poles and Rocco Barra and. And Chris Kiernan, all these, they shot all the World Cups and stuff. And like, currently, I know Bade was doing some coaching and stuff. And he is a wealth of knowledge on the international side, you know, for sure. And it's one of those deals that I think if we can get all that together. Yeah, I think we could grow this because like I said, we got the Olympics coming up in 20, 28, right, in LA, you know, so.

[D]

Yeah, And I think it's good. I do, I do too. And I agree that I feel like with a lot of these grass, the development programs, the Olympics isn't front and center, you know, and it doesn't have to be for everybody. It's not for everybody. But I do want all kids to know about.

[A]

Right.

[D]

And that it's there and we're here. And it's also, I mean, that's where our talent's gonna come from. For Brisbane. It starts now, you guys.

[A]

And so they have to dream about it, they have to think about it. They have to have an opportunity in their mind to say, I can get here. Like with anything else, it starts in the mind. I mean, you write it down, you have A goal. You're like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I mean, you have to have dreamers to make the team. If you don't have those dreamers and those workers, then you're going to kind of run out of that bench eventually. Because there's some guys on there that are solid, but they're lifelong. You know, they kind of got in there and they've been in there for a while. And now it's like, okay, how do you restock the pond if there's not enough new talent that's not swinging for the fences?

[E]

Well, Glenn Ellers, what's the selection process now, Kelly? I mean, if, you know, how does someone get on this to start?

[D]

Yeah, so. So we have kind of two selections a year. We, it's almost. Not exactly every six months, but it's generally, we're kind of picking a new national team twice a year. And, you know, everybody, you know, starts from zero. So, you know, you can have, you know, Vinnie Hancock has to earn the same number of points that like an upcoming hot shit junior would too. I mean, that's, that's what is very challenging and punishing for our elite athletes. But I also think it actually makes us so much better. I know it's grueling and I know it's stressful, but, you know, it also means that that's a spot that a junior could take, you know, depending on how they did, and they could, you know, go to earn a spot at lonato. You know, things like that. Like, that's huge. So it's. We're kind of rolling every six months rough, generally speaking. And what we haven't done, though, is we haven't published the entire detailed qualification to make the Olympic team. But we're trying to publish all of these earlier than later.

[A]

So it's hard because, you know, you set this expectation as it's this, this, this and this, and then you're like, okay, do we not send Vinnie Hancock, who's won like 16 medals in a row? Like, like, do you. If he, if he messed up the one day, like, do you not send Vinnie, who's gonna win and who's Mr. Iceman under pressure? You know, so I think there's got to be some of that in it too, because, yeah, you've gotta, you've got to earn it. But then even earning it that day, I mean, that Olympic pressure is a whole other deal. So, you know, I don't have the answer for it. I'm not gonna jump on that, that grenade and try to Fix that problem, because I can.

[D]

Yeah, it is jumping sides a bit. And you know, our, our national team members, you know, if any of them watch this, they're going to be laughing because there's all, you know, you know, sort of like it's. This is the, this is not USA Shooting is not for sissies. And quite frankly, neither is the Olympics. And, you know, we're dealing with these amazing and in. Super, super. These are the world's most competitive people, you know.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

And so it's. But I embrace, I love all of it, the fight, all of it, because it's one of the reasons why our country is so feared and why we dominate in shotgun internationally. Right. I mean, it's, there's this, there's kind of this, this vibe. It's just awesome. And so I want to take all these pieces of what makes us so awesome now. And we need to keep building that for Brisbane and beyond, you know, so.

[B]

Yeah, because your, your team, I mean, like, you know, you got Vinnie and Skeet and Kim Rhodian. Skeet, that's dominated the women's, you know, and such. And, and that's one of the things.

[D]

And Sam Simonton's coming out. He's a killer. I mean, they're all. I mean, my God, you know, the joke on these international trips is that men around the world don't even want to go anywhere near competing against our women's skeet athletes.

[B]

You know, I mean, you got, you know, Vizia and then you've got. Which Caitlyn or Kaylee? Excuse me, Browning. She just won something, didn't she? And she did.

[D]

And she went. She had a perfect finals round too. So, yeah, it was pretty amazing. At the Abu Dhabi Grand.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And that's one of the things. It's cool because Kaylee's been shooting a long time, you know.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And such. And you got all these up and coming people that they're, They've literally chose that path and said, hey, I'm gonna spend time. Because I was looking, you know, like I've known Glenn, Ella a long time and I just looked it up on there. Glenn was 18 when he, when he won a medal, the gold in 2000. So, yeah, 26 years. That's a long time.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, to be competing.

[D]

Well, and that's what's so cool. That's one of the things. There's a lot of things that make us unique, but that's one of the sports that makes us really unique in the Olympic ecosystem is the Longevity, like with gymnastics. Four years and you're out. And, you know, like, Glenn has had an amazing career. He's definitely hitting it hard on the gun right now. And, I mean, he's got a really decent shot at not only making the Olympic team, but meddling in la. Sorry, Glenn. I don't want to put pressure on you. I apologize for saying that.

[A]

But a little pressure on Will.

[C]

Will and William.

[B]

Good. Derek.

[D]

So many.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And Derek, they're all. They're incredible. And so a lot of these foreign teams, they. They want to understand, you know, what makes us so great, what makes us so strong. Like, they're. They're looking for, like, the secret sauce or, like, you know. You know, I mean, I hate to say bribes, but they all want to understand, you know, like, how do we do it? Because they know that our budget is a fraction of what other nations fraction. And so it makes no sense to them why our results are, you know, a. A multiple greater. I mean, not.

[A]

We're talking because these guys pick it up and they carry it themselves. I mean, a lot of these guys, I mean, the names that you've mentioned, I mean, they've got access to ranges, they've built ranges. They train this stuff every day. And.

[B]

Well, they shoot for the army team, too. The amu, army marksmanship. And they're shooting every day in the middle.

[A]

And that's the only way that you would have a chance to beat these guys from Italy that wake up every morning, they have an espresso, they go out and they shoot. They come back, they have a sandwich, they shoot again. I mean. I mean, that's the way if you're going to do that and you're going to represent your country, and that's what you're going to do. If you're an Olympian skier, I mean, that's pretty much what you do for four years. You train skiing, you train whatever it is you're doing, you train that, and you do that, and that's your job to go win this thing, Right?

[B]

And it's. It's one thing, Zach, when. When I was at the first World cup at Tucson that they hosted, and I was sitting there, Bill Martin wanted me to come down. And so I was down there with. With Jay Beaman and Janessa Beaman, who. Janessa was on the developmental team, and she was on the junior team. She actually won the Junior world championships. And that same year, she was second on the ATA Women's All American team. And so we're there, and I'm talking to some Athletes from Russia. And we're chatting and. And I was like. And they asked me, oh, you shoot. I know, I don't shoot this anymore. I shoot ata. And they were stating that, yeah, it was a husband, wife. They both shot. And. And I don't. I think they might have been from Croatia or something. But anyways, they were paid and their house was paid for. Yeah, all they did is shoot. And the country paid them every day. They got up, they shot every day, and that's what they did. And I was like, oh. They said, yeah, we don't understand how the team, how you could do it, say, beats us all the time when they're not paid. And they only, you know, that's because we're built on.

[A]

We're built. This country is built on bootleggers. A bunch of people that are. That are hungry and trying to make it and going to shoot and make it happen where it's like, okay, everywhere else. Oh, you just shoot. And this is what you do. Well, a lot of the people here, they're making their bread with that shotgun. I mean, you got guys like Ricky that have hardened themselves like nails because if they don't shoot, they don't eat. And it's like, okay, well, that's.

[B]

I like to eat.

[A]

Yeah, he eats. So he's been shooting good his whole life. So you look at that and you're like, okay, you know, these guys have so much more skin in the game, right? Because. And when you got that skin in the game, it makes you really gristly. It makes. It's great.

[D]

You know, it really does. And it's grit. And, you know, this is what I tell our board and you know, other folks that are kind of in our ecosystem is, I'm gonna pull the patriot card, is that you also cannot put a price tag on, like, living with freedom every day with the Second Amendment, with having liber access to just everything that we do. That is grit, you guys, that you cannot buy. You cannot buy it, you cannot teach it. And I see it in all of our athletes and I, oh, it just makes me like, so happy. I'm so proud to be an American,

[C]

you know, I think you're right, Kelly. This roundtable discussion needs to happen because, yeah, you know, Joe BARTOSZI, the President NSSF was on our show and Love survey results. And 23.4 million people broke our target in 2024. Clay Target, whether that was a backyard trap or competition, but 23.4 million people. There's only 30,000 active members in the NSCA I don't know what there is in the ATA, but about 60, maybe. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

So.

[C]

But again, if you added the two organizations together, that's a fraction of the people, and I think the communication to let them know that not only these different disciplines and the organizations are available, but USA Shooting is available. You know, I mean, I remember watching the last Olympics. We were watching Derek, mine, my uncle and I were watching on tv, and he's like, how do you even get into that? I mean, like, people don't know. They have no clue, you know, zero clue.

[B]

Well, we can let her know by our podcast. And. And we do, Kelly. We do have, you know, cameras, so we can travel to the LA Olympics if you need us there, and that won't be a problem.

[D]

I love it. I love it. No, I mean, and so, you know, it's exciting. You know, I've got. Obviously, I've got a bias for the future of the shooting sports and for integrating the white. I mean, because I don't want the white space to be sitting on the table anymore. And so part of it is winning medals for Team usa, but I'm not gonna lie, part of it's taking medals from China. You know, I mean, we haven't talked about the other sports so much, but, you know, that feels good. Feels kind of good with some of these competitors in certain areas. You know, the precision.

[A]

Take it away from them.

[D]

Yeah. So. But, you know, we want to form the coalition of the willing. And so for those. What I would say to kind of your listeners is especially for, you know, on the grassroots side and the parents and the people that are making these organizations happen, that, you know, USA Shooting is on a really strong foot. We don't want to compete with any of those organizations. And, you know, we want to be a part of the solution, to have a stronger pipeline and a stronger shooting sports. And so I want to work with all of them to do that. And I mean, we're already amazing as a country for this. We can be even better, you guys, if we actually try intentionally.

[A]

Yeah, 100% could be better. And I think. I think for people listening to the show, you know, they have to step up and bring their chips to the table, too, because there are people out there that are. That have done really well in life and are connected really well, and if there's people that can connect various associations to various people and being able to say, hey, we're creating endowments, we're. We're setting up money, we're doing this because in this country, A lot of the times it's not government funded, it's private funded. I mean, a lot of the cool stuff that we're doing in this country is a bunch of people that are saying, we're sick and tired of it. We're going to put our money where our mouth is and we're going to do this. And so, you know, especially you. You spoke on the Potter Fields earlier at Midway, and, you know, they're. They're people that have said, we're going to support shooting sports, period. And they've. They've put their money where their mouth is. And that, you know, that's huge. And I think there's so many people that love the sport and they take from the sport, but then when they get to a point to where they've done really well in their life, they don't always give back. And I never understood that, because you have to. You have to replenish the coffers. You know, you have to go back and say, hey, what can we give to the next generation? How can we keep this thing going? It's been great for me in my life, but how can I. How could we give back to the next generation?

[C]

And so, if you think about the premise of our two podcasts, that's exactly what we're trying to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I hope that the people that are listening to this are not thinking that it needs to all fall on our backs, meaning trap, talk and deadpan. Right. I hope everybody that's listening to this that's even the least little bit inspired by it puts their money where their mouth is, like you said. And look, I've got a direct line to Eric Trump. Don't think I'm not sending him this episode. Like, dude, listen on your flight over to wherever you're going next, because it takes everybody, you know, from the bottom to the top. I completely agree. And I think, I hope this inspires more people to get involved. I. I think that's what it's going to take. It's not going to take one or two takes a village, as they say. Right?

[B]

Well, it does. And that's the one thing. And that's why, you know, like, Cole Kushman, you know, with gun and trophy insurance, I mean, Cole is a huge supporter of all shooting sports. And just like, you know, Jason and I were talking earlier, you know, everybody's listening to this episode, owns a gun. So I don't know.

[E]

If you don't have it insured, half of households have one. And it's not just, I'm only a precision rifle shooter. It's not just, I'm only Trapp or Sporting Clays. I mean, there's a blend, and it's just. It's. It's making this. It's breaking that wall, so to speak. A lot of it goes. I think Kelly's, you know, great person for this organization to. To really make some of that happen.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And. And, you know, Cole, it's. It's one of those things where I wish you guys were around when I was a kid, because you don't even know how scared I was, because everything I had was in that shotgun at time.

[C]

The.

[A]

At the time, and I could not replace it. Like, so it was one of those things where if. If I could have connected with you as a junior, I wouldn't have, you know, had ptsd. I mean, I was practically sleeping with that gun under my bed. He's not lying, like, because.

[B]

Because you.

[C]

You.

[A]

There's so many stories of people, like, their cars get broke into this.

[D]

That.

[A]

And the other thing. It's like, I did not have the resources to replace it. My gun was like my life to me. And I would. I would have. Like, if somebody was trying to rob me for my gun, I'd be like, yeah, you're not getting this gun. Like, we're gonna. One of us is gonna die.

[B]

You could take my girlfriend, but you're not taking my gun.

[A]

Yeah. And. And so, you know, that just being able to. To protect shooters that are traveling and going around the country and have the peace of mind of saying, you know, this 25, 000 gun that I can't replace, you know, that's one less thing to worry about. And, you know, that's. You know, I know this wasn't the topic of our show, but it just brings it up, and it. It shows that you're there to help and support. Well, yeah, and it also shows that

[B]

you give back, goes back to.

[E]

I mean, we're secret. We're the only insurance book without a convicted felon in it. And it goes back to who is a gun owner in the first place, who is a shooter. I mean, they're. You're dealing with, you know. You know, some of the best people from an insurance standpoint, let alone, you know, just the way ethically they live their lives. So.

[C]

Yeah, well.

[B]

And Cole, you. You. You just talked about that, but Zach was talking about scared of his gun, all that. In 23, Zach and I went over to Fajara, to Dubai, UAE, to. To shoot, and they take your guns and they bring him to the shooting range from Dubai to Vajara. And Zach stayed up all night. He was scared. And I said, you have it insured, right? Well, yeah. And I said, well, then, whatever. And he's like, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to bed. And I fell. He. I literally woke up, like, four hours later. And Zach goes, our guns are on the move. They're on the way.

[A]

I. I had an apple tag stuffed in my. In my case. So I just watched that thing. Like, I'm all like, where's my gun at? You know, it's my baby, but that's my. That's my shameless plug to apple. I always throw those apple tags in all of my cases so that I can kind of track them around and know where stuff's at.

[B]

But it is interesting, though. So Cole and. And you can, you know, explain this to people real quick, but traveling overseas, shipping your gun, all that, it's all covered with gun and trophy, correct?

[E]

Yes, sir. It's all covered.

[B]

See? And that's where people don't understand. They go, oh, no, I'm shipping this. And I said, guys, it's on that airplane. You do not need to take out extra insurance. You're just throwing money up in the air.

[E]

You know, peace of mind at the end of the day, it's usually never accessed, but it's.

[B]

Yeah, it gives you a peace of mind.

[C]

Well, it's not just a shameless plug. And we're definitely not trying to sound like a commercial, but Cole's the one that brought all of us together for this with Kelly.

[B]

And absolutely.

[C]

The other side of this, too, is I don't care if you're a competitive shooter. If you just. If you have a 200 concealed carry pistol or if you got a $200,000 shotgun. You know, I mean, why. Why are you going to rely on your homeowner's insurance to argue with you if something happens? I mean, you know, if, like. Like you said, if you're listening to this show, you're either a competitive shooter, a hunter, or you own a firearm.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Why are you. I mean, look, this is. This is a specialty insurance for a special market, and if you own a firearm and, sorry, Cole, I'm not trying to kiss your butt, but if you're

[B]

gonna drop me, you're.

[C]

You're absolutely ludicrous if you're not covered by gun and trophy. I mean, that's what this. That's what this.

[A]

Well, the whole conversation got started because we talked about people that are giving back. And I think that's why we got brought to Cole, is because when we asked him to say, hey, we're gonna do this shootout, or we're gonna. We need this or we need that. It's always whatever you guys need. And so, you know, they're the people that are coming back and saying, what can we do to give back to the sport to keep it rolling? So that when we, you know, when we do back fence, the, you know, the bags that are sponsored, they're top notch. I mean, the competitors love them, and it becomes something that they. They really cherish and. And keep in their. Their house for generations. And that. That's huge. So, you know, thank you, Cole, for. For getting us together today, because we didn't even. I didn't even know who Kelly was before today. And that goes back to communication, right? Like, we're in the trap shooting community. We don't know Kelly. And now we do. And now there's a.

[B]

And that was. Yeah, Cole said we were on the hunt, and Cole's like, hey, I got an idea. Jason and I were like, okay, everything good we ever got that started with,

[A]

we got an idea that just kind of rolls it.

[E]

Meet a lot of awesome people. Yeah, really do. And some. Some great minds. Just a matter of putting them all together and trying to make something happen.

[A]

Kelly, you know, we could go ahead. Jason, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[C]

I was just gonna say. And I didn't mean to speak over you, Zach. And I'm definitely not going to speak for them, but I know where their heart is. I know they're going to agree with me. Anything we can do to help. If you want to put together a round table, if we need to get you back on another episode down the road, more than happy to help. I know I'm a sporting clay podcast, they're a trap podcast, but I think they'll agree that we. We both have people that are genuinely interested in helping USA shooting.

[D]

And I love it.

[C]

You got my support.

[D]

That's awesome. I love it.

[A]

Kelly, I guess before we get out of here today, is there anything else you'd like to let the listeners know? Is there any other questions that you wanted to ask back to us that we didn't cover today? Because I know we had a lot of ground that we covered, and it was a lot of great material, and we can definitely have you on again. But is there anything today before we wrap up?

[D]

I think so. That I guess what I'll say is, obviously, I would encourage Everybody to follow us on socials, on, you know, we're pretty active on Instagram and Facebook. You know, follow our events, reach out to us. We want to hear and if you feel ne compelled, then become a member. You know, that would be amazing. But also, you know, we're really focused on LA and so we have our first quota. We can, this is a whole separate discussion for another time. But you know, at some point we should talk about kind of all the things that we're doing to prep for LA with the venue, with the ioc, with issf. It sounds like I have a little advisory council though, at my ready here. That's what this is what I'm hearing. And you know, we are always looking for more ideas for how to make this more TV viewer friendly as well. That's a huge topic that we're working on right now. All this calendar year with ISSF and ioc, you know, we had a huge ratings boost with the Korean Monaco girl from Paris and Yusuf the pistol shooter. But even for shotgun, we're always looking for ways and our country is in a really interesting spot to be able to influence how we present on TV for the Olympics even as soon as la, not just Brisbane. And so we want help from the community to do that. We want feedback. I can't promise we'll always agree, but we love all the feedback and opinions. Always, always, always, always. And I know you shotgunners are very extroverted and not shy. I've learned this.

[A]

You got four guys on here that are like a dog with two bones, so you ain't gonna worry about them. Well, we'll get in that dish real quick, don't you worry, Kelly.

[D]

But, and then we've got, you know, the quota opportunities in 2027 and then early 28, we'll have a big test event. Louisiana Clays is the venue for shotguns, so they're getting ready for that. We're going to have a temporary venue for rifle and pistol at the Long Beach Convention Center. And so we're going to have, I would like ideas kind of from the community on how we can incorporate, if it's possible with the event at LA Clays to have a open side of it as well as, you know, a test event for Olympic selection. Things like to how can we involve the community more? You know, the broader, I mean, this is a once in a generational opportunity that we get to host this. And so, you know, I want us just to put our best foot forward at every turn through la.

[A]

I think that's a wonderful idea. Because you think about it, I mean, how many opportunities do all, all the people in this country get to have this Olympic sport here that we can witness at some level and be involved? And there's some really passionate shotgun shooters that are going to want to be involved. I think if there's any listeners today that listen to this episode, got inspiration, have some thoughts, ideas, go ahead and email us. You know our email. John will put the link up here, down there. I'm sure you can email them to Rambo's podcast also because, you know, if we give us the information, we'll kick it back. Yeah, I'm sure we'd love to have Kelly on again before 2028 and just say, hey, how does this selection process work? Let's do a whole episode where, yeah, you know, we can just have a table of like, where do they start? What are they doing? What do we need to get accomplished here so we can get some people excited? Because who knows, there might be people that have an opportunity at 2028 that didn't have an opportunity before they listened to this. So, you know that, that would be really cool if, if, you know, there's some competitors out there that want to take that leap and, and jump for it.

[D]

So, yeah, absolutely.

[A]

I'm really excited that we had you on the show today. Kelly Cole, thank you again for the introduction in Rambo. It's always a pleasure.

[B]

That's right, baby.

[A]

I mean, whenever we want to go after hours, trap, trap, talk after dark, you would call Jason and we can get that done in a hurry.

[C]

Ricky told me that you guys are coming down here, the Silver Dollar, and I'm thinking I'm gonna go over there and try to poke at these going away targets with you guys that weekend. So bring the cameras, man. I think I got a couple ideas while we were doing this. Maybe we can come up with another good episode.

[A]

So, you know, we always like to have fun, Jason, you know that. So, so we'll, we'll make something happen for everyone listening, like share, subscribe, send in your questions, wear your merchandise, invite a shooter to the range with you, Bring them out, get them involved, have them join new associations and get more involved and give back a little bit. So, you know, that was the purpose of today's show and, and we really appreciate everyone that keeps, keeps us going and makes this fun for us. We're doing it for you guys and we're enjoying the ride. So thank you very much, folks. Happy Friday and we'll catch you next Friday.

[B]

Thanks everyone.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thanks Thanks.