Trap Talk #181 | Winning Trapshooting Techniques, Ohio State Recaps and Grand Countdown!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trap Talk #181 | Winning Trapshooting Techniques, Ohio State Recaps and Grand Countdown!

Trap Talk From The Back Fence
Hosts: Zach Nannini & Richard Marshall Jr.
Release Date: July 10, 2026
Episode Length: ~1:13:00 (Approximate)

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Zach and Ricky bring their trademark banter and expertise to a packed agenda:

• Recapping the Wisconsin and Ohio State trapshooting events
• Sharing winning shooting techniques and coaching stories
• Offering insights on travel rigs and RV living for circuit shooters
• Previewing upcoming big shoots, including the Grand American
• Discussing shooter mindset, gear, and event strategies

The episode’s tone is friendly, engaging, and full of stories from the road—a relatable deep dive for trapshooters at any level.

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Table of Contents

1. Early Event Recaps & Grand Slam Highlights (01:25 – 04:18)
2. Travel Setups: Fifth Wheels, Trucks & Lessons from the Road (05:03 – 13:01)
3. Coaching Philosophy & Improving Trapshooters (13:01 – 22:27)
4. Technique Deep Dive: Mount, Balance & Body Mechanics (24:18 – 38:26)
5. Shooting Season & Upcoming Events (38:26 – 41:31)
6. Ohio State Shoot—Complete Results Recap (44:39 – 56:53)
7. Mindset: Handling Ups & Downs in Trapshooting (49:12 – 56:53)
8. Target Setting, Equipment & Club Culture (57:32 – 61:10)
9. RV Life for Shooters (66:06 – 71:03)
10. Wrap-Up, Listener Appreciation & Looking Forward to the Grand (71:18 – end)

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<a name="early-event-recaps"></a>Early Event Recaps & Grand Slam Highlights

(01:25 – 04:18)

• Ricky checks in live from his new fifth wheel at the Wisconsin State Shoot.
• Tyler Hondo shoots a grand slam – breaking 100, with “a loan 99 in the handicap.”
  • “That’s a hell of a feat.” (01:49, Ricky)
• Anecdotes about targets being broken by the shotgun wad, including stories from Ricky breaking targets that way in singles and doubles:
  • “All of a sudden, the wad goes ping—hits the target, breaks it in three spots…” (02:41-03:42, Ricky)

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<a name="travel-setups"></a>Travel Setups: Fifth Wheels, Trucks & Lessons from the Road

(05:03 – 13:01)

• Ricky’s family upgraded to a 2027 Grand Design Momentum toy hauler for comfort:
  • “The whole back is Tyler’s…in the middle of the night, he’s got his own space.” (06:16–06:22, Ricky)
• Stories about buying a new Dodge dually truck and dealing with vehicle issues:
  • “Right off the bat [the transmission] was leaking…not real happy.” (08:32, Ricky)
  • Dealer stories: “Shout out to H & H up in Omaha. They really did their job.” (09:10, Ricky)
• Fuel management for travel shooters: “I set the cruise on about 75, 78. I got 8.2 miles to a gallon.” (11:12, Ricky)
• The convenience of modern setups: “It’s a lot easier…having a truck and a fifth wheel instead of a truck, fifth wheel, and then another trailer.” (12:17, Ricky)
• Plug for Big Red Motorsports and some lighthearted ribbing about riding in style (28:44–28:57).

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<a name="coaching-philosophy"></a>Coaching Philosophy & Improving Trapshooters

(13:01 – 22:27)

• Ricky discusses his philosophies as a coach and the happiness found in students improving:
  • “It’s always the best when people put themselves in a position to learn…when they see the results.” (13:46, Zach)
• Debate on whether to help competitors:
  • “I want everyone to be shooting at their best…It creates bigger, better shoots.” (14:44, Zach)
  • Story about Ricky’s mentor, Frank Copy:
    “Frank said: ‘They’re my students, so I must be doing something right.’” (16:01–16:21, Ricky)
• On teaching style:
  • “I’m going to give you the whole freaking entrée… the [whole] enchilada, the sour cream, the guacamole…” (16:28–16:42, Zach)
• Fundamental lesson anecdote:
  • “He ended up breaking 23 out of 25 after a couple rounds…He said, ‘I can’t believe I didn’t know this was this easy.’” (17:30, Zach)
• Consistency and keeping an open mind:
  • “If you’re going to sign up for a class…you gotta have an open mind. Otherwise, just sit at home.” (21:44, Ricky)

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<a name="technique-deep-dive"></a>Technique Deep Dive: Mount, Balance & Body Mechanics

(24:18 – 38:26)

• The crucial role of gun mount and head position:
  • “If you mount it and it ain’t right, and you lift your head up and then remount it like that…99 out of 100 you’re going to arm shoot.” (26:43, Ricky)
  • Zach’s advice: “Just take the gun down, start all over.” (27:00, Zach)
• Importance of mindset during mount:
  • “How you feel about the mount and whether you reassure yourself…makes a huge difference.” (31:35, Zach)
• Common problems: arm-shooting and “front hand whap.”
  • Ricky’s fix: “Take your forend and put your two fingers…lay the forend on top…bring your hand back a bit.” (33:02–33:43)
• Stance and body movement:
  • “I get, I’m more upper body…my right hand, I mean, I’m turning that gun…and I shoot all the disciplines.” (34:35, Ricky)
  • “All the top shooters that I’ve seen…even Joe Charnigo, as fast as he’s shooting it looks smooth.” (37:41, Zach)
  • “You need about 60–65% of your weight forward, but it’s not like you’re way forward.” (24:39, Ricky)

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<a name="season-and-upcoming"></a>Shooting Season & Upcoming Events

(38:26 – 41:31)

• Recap of recent big shoots: Western Grand, Illinois, Ohio, Minnesota, Wisconsin.
• Ricky’s busy schedule: rotations through Iowa, then off to Sparta for AIM and Grand American.
  • “We’re right in the mix of shooting season right now, folks.” (38:26, Ricky)
  • “Tyler’s going to shoot the whole AIM…then Alexandria for the Shotgun Fest with Corey Cruz.” (39:28, Ricky)
• Listener party at the Grand: “Come by the studio for our listener party on the 4th. Barbecue, raffles, fun, free stuff—no tickets needed.” (41:10–41:19, Zach)

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<a name="ohio-state-recap"></a>Ohio State Shoot—Complete Results Recap

(44:39 – 56:53)

• Singles:
  • Non-resident champ: George Lee (200).
    —“That was George’s first non-resident championship.” (45:00, Ricky)
  • In-state champ: Michael Wingerd (199)
• Shoot-off Details:
  • “I missed in the second round. It was down to Jack, Ian, and George. George won with 100 extras.” (46:12–46:38, Ricky)
• Doubles:
  • In-state: Liz Ternice wins in a shoot-off against top competitors.
  • Out-of-state: Stephen Majerio (aka “Magoo”) ran all his doubles.
• Handicap:
  • In-state: 7 shooters at 98. “Scott [Gabos] won the shoot-off, Austin runner-up.” (48:09, Ricky)
  • Non-resident: Garrett Helms (98)
• Key Insight from Zach:
  • “If you believe in yourself and never quit, you can always have an opportunity to win. Nobody remembers your bad scores after a Sunday win.” (49:12, Zach)
• Mindset on series performance:
  • “My goal is always to win the HOA because that shows you’re one of the top shooters there.” (51:19, Ricky)
  • “You have a bad event, you have a bad weekend, so be it. Ain’t over.” (51:20, Zach)
• Overall standings:
  • All Around: Austin Jacob (in-state, 393). Non-resident: Ian Derek (395).
  • HOA: Joseph “Not So Slow” Charnigo, with Ian Derek runner up, Ricky third.

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<a name="mindset"></a>Mindset: Handling Ups & Downs in Trapshooting

(49:12 – 56:53)

• Importance of resilience during big weeks:
  • “People only remember the one event you win—they don’t remember the bad scores.” (49:12, Zach)
  • “If you can make top three in the overall or all around at a major shoot, you’re right there.” (55:25, Zach)
• On controlling frustration and mental mistakes:
  • “If you get angry after a bad bird, then you’re missing another one.” (56:31, Zach)
• Discussion of variable target quality and shoot conditions.

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<a name="target-setting"></a>Target Setting, Equipment & Club Culture

(57:32 – 61:10)

• Club culture and target consistency:
  • “There needs to be parallel minimums when it comes to setting targets…some clubs throw really soft targets.” (58:42, Zach)
  • “It’s not like the IRS is coming into the Silver Dollar and doing an audit…everyone kind of does it their own way.” (59:30, Zach)
  • “Each club does different things…it’s their shoot, they run it how they want.” (60:37, Ricky)
• General praise for Midwest clubs and the community atmosphere.
  • “Wisconsin throws great targets…the campground’s great…good week ahead.” (61:10, Ricky)

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<a name="rv-life"></a>RV Life for Shooters

(66:06 – 71:03)

• Heavy travel routines and the value of a good trailer:
  • “I haven’t been home a weekend since January…I’ve been teaching and shooting.” (66:06, Ricky)
• Ricky details the in’s and out’s—RV setup, generator, fuel management, remote work by his wife Jody.
  • “If you count the days, it might be three months a year in your trailer.” (67:45, Zach)
  • “The new Momentum…has an onboard generator…three ACs, all app controlled!” (68:43–70:16, Ricky)
• Importance of sleep, comfort, and decompression for performance:
  • “You can’t replace a good night’s sleep. Just coming back and having a place to relax—to cool down, to prep for the next event.” (71:03, Zach)

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<a name="wrap-up"></a>Wrap-Up, Listener Appreciation & Looking Forward to the Grand

(71:18 – end)

• The episode finishes with reminders to attend the listener appreciation party at the Grand, wear Trap Talk merch, and come say hello.
  • “We’re busy, but we won’t miss. See you soon. Don’t forget the listener party on the 4th!” (72:18, Zach)
  • “Good luck, everyone. We’ll see you soon.” (72:52, Ricky)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Frank said: ‘They’re my students, so I must be doing something right.’” (16:01, Ricky)
• “I’m going to give you the whole freaking entree.” (16:28, Ricky)
• “If you mount it and it ain’t right, and you lift your head up and then remount—it’s going to be an arm shoot.” (26:43, Ricky)
• “If you believe in yourself and never quit, you can still put one on the board.” (49:12, Zach)
• “People only remember the event you win, not the ones you missed all week.” (49:12, Zach)

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Key Takeaways

• Gunfit, mindset, and fundamentals are king—from top shooters’ consistency to breakthrough learner moments, the technical basics can’t be overstated.
• Openness to coaching and a willingness to learn drive the biggest leaps forward—even veterans can benefit from small adjustments.
• Trapshooting is a family and community endeavor, and travel logistics, comfort, and camaraderie are huge parts of what keep shooters coming back.
• Mental resilience trumps “bad” events: a late-week win rewrites the entire narrative.
• The countdown to the Grand is on: come for shooting advice, stay for the stories, and join the fun at the listener party!

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For listeners:

Missed an episode? Want to connect in person?

• Attend the Grand's Listener Party (Aug 4)
• Connect through Trap Talk Nation on-site or online
• Check the show's sponsors and helpers who make the trapshooting community tick!

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to season four of Trap Talk,

[B]

brought to you by Craig off, the choice of champions.

[A]

You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind and knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens, I can get my winig and my Craig off replaced quickly and easily without costing me a bunch of money.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance, it's the best out there to ensure your guns, sure. Your trophy, animals, everything.

[A]

Thank you to the whole Cushman family for supporting the show and everything they do for trap shooting.

[B]

Absolutely. Get a hold of Cole Kushman. He'll get you set up.

[A]

I just love the way they're covering all the shoots across the country. The content, the pictures, what they're doing online, what they're doing on Facebook, Instagram. What do you think?

[B]

Yeah. Traption usa, it's a great magazine. They are the official magazine of our podcast and we are the official podcast of Traption usa. So we really appreciate it.

[A]

That's really cool. And what they got is a deal right now. If you put Trap Talk P in for the print version and Trap Talk D for the digital version, it's 1999 for the print and 9.99 for the digital for one year. You're not going to find a better deal. So subscribe today. You won't regret it.

[B]

Absolutely. Thank you for all the support.

[A]

Hello, Trap Talk listeners. I'm your host, Zach Denini. I'm here with the one and only legendary Richard Marshall Jr. He is coming in live from his new fifth wheel in Wisconsin and Wisconsin State shoe.

[B]

Baby.

[A]

I. I hear there's good things happening in Wisconsin already. I see there was a grand slam shot today by Tyler, right?

[B]

Yep. Tyler Hondo got his grand slam today, so that was awesome. Congratulations to Tyler. That's a. That's a hell of a feat. He broke a hundred and I think. I think Dagon was a loan 99 in the handicap.

[A]

So alone. Hundred and a loan 99?

[B]

I think so. Yeah. We. Wyatt was high on our squad. He broke 96 with missing three out of about eight shots on one trip. So. And then I had 95, but yeah, run the singles and then I seen myself and Ian Lawrence had the lone hundreds and the doubles today too.

[A]

Well, there you go. So it's already starting to be a good shoot. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, the high overall doesn't start till tomorrow.

[B]

Yeah, HOA starts tomorrow. So.

[A]

So points today. HOA tomorrow. But, you know, you got warmed up.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I wasn't really gonna shoot And Justin, they all wanted to shoot because, you know, Wyatt and everybody's chasing points, and. And Tyler was. I said, all right, fine, I'll shoot. And I was the only one who broke 100. I said, but if we did have a deal happen today in the singles, second box. Tyler on post three. His second post had a straightaway, and it jumped. And I saw his shots. I was kind of gazing out there, and I seen his shot string go under the target. And I was like, whoa. And then all of a sudden, the wad goes ping. Hits the target, breaks it in three spots, three pieces. Excuse me. And I went. And the puller went, what's that? Dead bird, dead target. And I turned around and. And there's people back there. And I'm like, oh, we've seen it. We've seen it. The only one in the squad that didn't see it was Justin.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, if it breaks in the air, it's. It's. It's a dead target. And, you know, honestly, that's. I've heard that before. I've seen it once. It was on my squad. It happened. It happened once. I've seen it, and now you guys seen it. But it does happen there. You can hit them rare.

[B]

You know, like I said, I've done it twice in singles. Tyler's done it once. And now in singles, I did it in doubles one time with Sean hauling a shoot off for. Was shooting doubles from the 27 to Tucson. And I broke the second target with the wad.

[A]

With the wad.

[B]

With the wad.

[A]

Yeah, it used to happen quite a bit with those gold medals, those gold.

[B]

That.

[A]

That. That maroon wad that they had in the old gold medals. See, those things just punch out all the time because they came out like slugs.

[B]

Yep. The 12s. Three. That's what I. I broke the. The doubles with.

[A]

Yeah, there's Sugar.

[B]

He's rolling. He just got out of the chair. You know, we. We just got done playing golf, so we went. We shot 300 targets. And then myself and Tyler and Wyatt and Barrett and my lovely wife Jody, we went to the. It's called the Ridge Golf Course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just about 15 minutes away. We played nine holes today, so. Had a good time.

[A]

And so you got a. A new fifth wheel also, right?

[B]

Yep. So Jody and I decided it was actually on the wheel from Vernal, from the Western grand, that Tyler had outgrown the little room he had in the Montana, and he had outgrown the couch, and he was struck. You know, his back was Hurting him quite a bit. And, you know, he's 18 years old, and he just. So we said, you know what? Let's go look. So we literally. On the way home, we hadn't even got home yet. We pulled into Leeches in Lincoln, Nebraska, leech camper sales. And they had a Montana. Excuse me, a Momentum toy hauler. So we went and looked at it. We liked the floor plan. And I said, well, you know what? If we could get one in a couple months or a month, I'd order one if we could, you know, get it before the grand. And he said, well, let me do some checking. And he called me back, or text me, I guess it was that night. And said there was one going down the line in like seven days, and if we wanted to, we needed to jump on it. So we made a bunch of changes. The only change we couldn't make was deleting the rear bathroom to have more room for the canyon to get in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But in hindsight, it's good we got it because the whole back is Tyler's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So in the middle of the night, he's got.

[A]

You don't have to walk all the way across.

[B]

Well, that and then, you know, I mean, you know, Jody and I are going to be grandparents here coming up in November. And so my oldest boy, Trey, and his wife Kenzie, I'm sure they'll be. You maybe come and do a shoot here or there, and.

[A]

Yeah, they'll visit. With that big rig, why wouldn't they bring a little.

[B]

The little nugget along is what mama calls him. And so they'll have an area also back there. So it's good. It's just a toilet in a. And a sink, but it helps out and. But yeah, it's the new. It's a 20, 27 grand design. Momentum 395mt. So it's a new floor plan. There's not a lot of storage underneath. So big. Donnie Justin ordered one full paint, though. You know, he went full out on it, and I don't think he's gonna be taking it because it. There isn't a lot of storage for what he does, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With him and the two boys, three of them.

[A]

There's a lot. He needs a lot in those. Those under areas for the shells, for the grills, for the. I mean, he's. It's a lot. It's a lot more. I mean, it's a third more than you. I mean, you've got two shooters, he's got three sh. I mean, that's totally understandable in this layout.

[B]

I mean, we got a sectional, we got theater seating. I'm sitting here at mama's desk because she gets to work remotely coming to the shoots with us. And then of course we got the big back with Tyler. Then, you know, king bed, shower. I mean, washer, dryer. So it's.

[A]

It's living the dream.

[B]

Yeah, well. And so with this, I had to get rid of the old Ford. I didn't want to, but I traded it in and got a Dodge dually long bighorn edition. And because it's. I'm just going to use it to pull the fifth wheel. So got that white beautiful truck, drove it home, had some issues. Transmission was leaking.

[A]

Right off the bat.

[B]

Right off the bat. Wasn't real happy. Mama wasn't happy. Went back up and bought it from H and H and their GSM general sales manager, Kyle, he took care of us. Corey, who's the service manager up there, he took care of us. And then Dan, who's the fleet service manager, he was actually wrenching on the truck. They pulled the out. Figured out that it was the. That was leaking, not the engine. So that's good because you're just unbolt and you're not, you know, breaking open the engine or breaking open the transmission.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they still. Was it Stalis that owns, you know, Dodge Ram, whatever. They authorized a new transmission. So they overnighted one from Minneapolis.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

It came in and I talked to him. At 8 in the morning. They were putting it in by I think it was two o'.

[A]

Clock.

[B]

We were on the road and Kyle, they. They stepped up. So shout out to H and H up in Omaha. They really, you know, did their job. Yeah, yeah, they. I mean, listen, they gave me a loaner truck to. To drive. Then we went back up to get it. Wasn't ready yet. They give us a brand new Jeep Wrangler. Mama wants to get a Jeep Wrangler. So they gave us one of those to drive so she could, you know, see how she liked that. And I almost leased one. They had these leases, they were like 299 bucks and I'm giving them away. Yeah, I was like, I should enjoy. Like you are not leasing a Ram or a Wrangler before me. So. But yeah, no, shout out to them.

[A]

So what are you going to do for your daily driver? Are you going to run that dually or are you going to do something else?

[B]

I'll probably get something else.

[A]

Yeah, get something else and just have

[B]

it for right now. That's what I'm gonna drive. But I'll probably get something especially before, right before winter.

[A]

You really need to have that dually for that size of a rig though, with that much weight and everything on it. I mean it's, it's. You gotta have it gv.

[B]

GVRW is. 24. 5 or 25. And I'm gonna tell you, pulling this thing up here. I had 30 flats of shells in the bed of the truck. The camper was loaded down. I mean we had everything can am in the back. Everything in here closed. I mean, we filled it. Fridge as you can see. Nice, you know.

[A]

Yeah, you guys ain't lacking on the food. I know that.

[B]

We're full.

[A]

There's some meat in there.

[B]

Yeah. And so we had it loaded down for bear and we rolled up here. I set the Cruise on about 75, 78. I got 8.2 miles to a gallon.

[A]

That's not horrible at all for that.

[B]

I wasn't complaining. We got a 50 gallon tank. They's complaining that, you know, usually I used to only be able to get about 200 something miles. Now Daddy can go about 350.

[A]

Yeah, that's a long way. Especially with that much weight. I mean. But I mean the best part of the whole thing, now that you've got it, you don't have to pull that big red machine behind anymore. You can tow it right into the. The unit. You got its own little camper garage.

[B]

The new one's blue, but yeah, yeah, it's. It made a huge difference. So you know, shout out to. To Jason Lee with big red motorsports. He takes care of me and you know, I had an alumina trailer that, that he gave me to use. And so I went and dropped that off right before we left and, and such. And it is going to be a lot easier. Way better just, just having a truck and a fifth wheel instead of a truck. Fifth wheel and then another trailer.

[A]

Because I was absolutely.

[B]

I was pushing 72, 73ft, which, you know, most people were like, wow, I can't believe you tow that. I towed it in some adverse conditions and you just got to be aware you, you can't, you know, drive 90 miles an hour, which I don't want to drive 90 miles.

[A]

No, but.

[B]

No, no, this, this new Dodge, it's. It's great. I mean, like I said, shout out to h. H they. They took care of us and, and we're going to continue to do business with that.

[A]

We got shameless plugs just flowing. We haven't even Got into the episode yet and we're plugging. It's just how we roll folks. We can't help it. When you're a fine tuned athlete like me and Ricky, you gotta just plug stuff all day long.

[B]

So I don't know about fine tuned tuned. Fine tuned baby. It's been crazy. You know, we got up here, we left Saturday and drove up here because Monday yesterday I did a, a one day group lesson. Had 12 wonderful students and one of them stopped by today actually we were eating at Justin's and Justin's our, our chef. So everybody knows of, of for trap talk that he's got his smoker out. So we smoked some, some pork and, and gentleman stopped by and shot his personal best today after doing the class yesterday and he was tickled and so that you know that, that it's always

[A]

the best when you know, when people put themselves in a position to learn when they go out and they seek advice or they're listening to the podcast or they're reading a book or they're doing something and then they actually into use and they see the results from it. There's probably nothing that makes me happier than see that happen for somebody because they, when they start to increase their, their game, they come back and that's what people don't understand is, is, is you know, I know a lot of people that won't help people because they're like, oh, I don't want to, I don't want to beat me or I don't want this or I don't want that. At the end of the game the day, I want everyone to be shooting at their best and if I can win that day then I feel really good about it. But I'm not going to sit there and not help people along the way because you want them to compete at a high level. I want to see them come back. I want to see them, you know, everybody feel like they have an opportunity to win. That's what creates bigger, better shoots at the end of the day.

[B]

Yeah, it's one of those things is years ago I had a gentleman call me up and I won't say any names, they still shoot, but called me up and said hey, you know, I'd like to do some lessons. Okay. So I give him the rundown, you know, and, and then he's like, well, I don't know. Then he wanted to kind of debate and I'm like, you know, and you know me, Zach, I'm not into debating.

[A]

No, you're pretty direct.

[B]

Yeah. And I'M like, well, what? And he goes, well, you know what? You. You're probably not going to teach me anything anyways because you don't want me to beat you. And I said, you know, it's like my coaching mentor, Frank Copy, when I started being able to compete against him and as you know, consistently be up there with him, and then, boom, I beat him a couple times and, you know, then I beat him a couple other times. But one of the deals was our Nebraska State singles that it was myself, Frank Copy and Timmy Carlisle. Those are the three left. Frank taught both Timmy and I, and Frank missed. And when he got back there, everybody was giving him crap. And if Frank was very, very witty and he's smart.

[A]

He was very smart.

[B]

Yeah. That I ever knew, you know, And. And Frank said, well, guys, this is good for me. And they were, what do you mean you got beat by two kids? He said, they're my students, so I must be doing something right. And that's what I've always thought about is when I teach everybody, I'm going to give them 100%. I'm going to give them.

[A]

You got to as.

[B]

As Zach, when I did lessons with you, I didn't tell you I'm just

[A]

going to give you a little bit

[B]

of this and then wait till next time. And I hear that a lot with some other instructors and all the disciplines, like, well, no, I only teach a little bit, and then the next time we'll give a little more. I'm going to give you the whole freaking entree.

[A]

You're going to get the whole enchilada, the sour cream, the guacamole, the lettuce, the tomatoes, everything. Let's get. You got to get the salsa. Like, if you're going to go over and we're going to talk trap shooting, you know, I actually just did a lesson today, and, you know, I might have to send to you to fix them, Ricky. But. But at the end of the day, you know, I did one, and the guy never took a lesson before. He's very new to shooting. Like, not. Not, you know, not a. Not even a trap shooter, but a new shooter. And I was explaining the concepts of how you line the gun up with the eye and then you look at the target instead of trying to put the beads on the target. And he was a rifle, pistol shooter, and he had a. You know, that was how he learned how to shoot. I mean, he didn't know anything other than that. And we spent some time doing it, and he ended up breaking 23 out of 25 and trap after a couple rounds. And, you know, really loved it. And he said, wow. He says, I can't believe that I didn't know this and that this was this easy. Like, it was. It was like an eye opening, shocking moment. And he's like, now he's like, well, where do you know, where do I go now? I want to come back. I want to do this and I want to do that.

[B]

And like, hey, 80, you need a new momentum.

[A]

A Dodge truck. You need to go see where's. Where's the. Where's the dealership, what they're called H. H. Go down to H&H. Spend 150 grand. You'll be fine. You're dialed in budget. But. But it's like that little bit right there, it made my day because you start with, these are the fundamentals. This is what we're trying to do. And we talk about this stuff every day. We talk about this episode after episode. But people come to me all the time and they say, zach, I listen to that and you guys said it, but I never really, like, thought about it. And then when I thought about it and like, really put some time into it, I'm like, wow, that really works. And they're real simple concepts, but you have to do them every time and you have to be consistent with them.

[B]

Yeah, it's one of those things is, as you know, Zach, it's your. Your worst enemy is the six inches between these two. Oh, yeah, that's your worst enemy. And most people overthink the process. They. They get nervous, they let nerves take over instead of just being calm. You know, it's. And I saw it yesterday. You know, Tyler's been helping me teach some classes and stuff and so people can get some more targets in. And, and, and because I want to see him shoot, I don't want to see him just shoot 50 targets and then sit down and talk for five hours. Now, I do have some students that, you know, they're more wanting to hear stuff versus live fire. So, you know, it's. Hey, you're paying me. You. You tell me how you want this to go. We can make it work. But Everybody yesterday, the 12 people, everybody I saw improve and get something out of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that just. That makes me feel good. Because one.

[A]

One thing is all you need one thing. I mean, you look at a year and you're like, okay, I go to all these shoots, I shoot all these targets. I spend all this money on shells, you know, this, that, and the Other thing. And, and if you take a class or you learn from someone, one thing that you can implement that can improve your game consistently every time, that's a world of difference. I mean, I mean, just whether it's your feet or whether it's your hold points or whether it's your look points or whether it's the pressure of the gun on the face or whether it's the. The comb height and making sure that it's fitting properly. I mean, any one of those things could be the difference between where you are and where you want to go. Right? And then when you stack them on top of each other, there's a cascading effect because, you know, most people. Most people don't have all of it together. You know, we might fix, you know, like you said, we're going to give them the whole enchilada. But, but day one, it's like, oh, well, we fixed their comb now. Now they're actually lined up on the gun. But then when you fix the feet and the hold points and all the other things with it, then it starts clicking really, really fast because, you know, you, you. If you fix the gun fit but their feet are wrong, well, then, you know, you're fighting it a little bit. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, it's one of those things. I had a young lady in the. In the class, and the way she was standing, she was standing, you know, both feet forward and so and leaning and, you know, moving to the target. Soon she'd get there, she'd push back. And I said, you know, you got to stand with your feet parallel and, you know, angle a little bit this, but, you know, and she's like, well, I don't know if that'll work. And she shot a couple shots and she's like, oh, okay. It feels different. Yep, yep. But it's one of those things is I tell everybody this all the time. You. If you're going to sign up for a class or take a lesson from anybody, you got to have an open mind. If you don't have an open mind, then you're just better off to sit at home because, yeah, don't.

[A]

Don't waste the energy, the time, the money, the effort, the shells. If you're not going to be there with an open mind to learn. And I think what I love about this show the most is it's caused me the ability to reflect on my own game and learn from other people by interviewing them and just asking questions and thinking about things. We're always thinking about trap Shooting, we're always thinking about, well, how can we improve the game? I was just talking to Rich Bullard today on the phone, and he's been working on some things, but we talked about. We talked about balance, and. And what he would realize is his doubles has been a little off lately, and he. He figured out finally, that his balance was way off the side, you know, on his left side. Instead of being.

[B]

That's old age, Bullard. You just. You're washed up.

[A]

It's over.

[B]

Hey, but I. Today, I was wearing the mustard slipped off the hot dog shirt.

[A]

You know, what you got, you gotta rep. But Bullard, if you're listening, no royalties. No royalties.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

You're not get. You're not getting anything. You can have a free hot dog at the Listener Appreciation on the fourth,

[B]

he gets one free hot dog and one free beer. That's it for him.

[A]

Nothing else. Maybe a shirt. If we have something in the size.

[B]

Not even gonna give him a shirt.

[A]

Not even a shirt. See? See, that's coldblooded. That's. Ricky's.

[B]

A. We.

[A]

We might throw him a shirt. We'll see a towel.

[B]

But, yeah, you are correct with. With Bullard. I know the way he stands affects his balance. I have seen that with him. You know, so it's one of those deals that, you know, hopefully Rich can get stuff figured out and. Because we'll see him. When will we see him next? I guess the Grand.

[A]

The Grand. Yeah. He's coming to the grand, so he'll fly in and we'll be there for that first. First day. But. But, you know that. You know, he's an experienced shooter that's won a lot of stuff, but just something as little as balance with the feet, like where your center of your balance is. Because in doubles, it's so important to pivot left and right. And if you're. I've seen too many people, in my opinion, you know, they get all revved up on that first shot, and they're way, way hunched forward, and then once they shoot it, they're so far in one direction that they don't have energy to go to the other direction. And one thing I notice about you really well, Ricky, is you have some forward press, but you're centered over your body so that when you shoot that first shot, you can move and you're not, like, falling forward where I've seen so many people that if the gun doesn't go off, they'd fall over. You know what I mean?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I've witnessed it. I've witnessed people walk out, like, almost to the trap house.

[A]

Yeah. Like, they're going up to load the house, and we're like, oh, no, no. It's just a failure to fire, bud. You know, stand on the line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think. I mean, what do you think about that? If someone's leaning so far forward that if they have a failure to fire, they're walking off the pad. That's probably too much, right?

[B]

Yeah. You need to have about 60 to 65% of your weight forward, but it's not like you're way forward. It's just all it is is when you mount, you gotta grab. It's like you're grabbing the concrete with your toes, and you do that. That's a good balance. If you do that and then you start tipping up, you're out of balance. Everybody's different, though. So that's something. What I tell people to do to. To figure that out is do that in a simulation mode of gun mounts in your garage, in your basement, your house, wherever the gun club. You know, in a safe environment, you know, not with your gun loaded. Nothing in there. Not a snap cap, nothing. We're not empty. Time. Okay, so nothing in the gun, but as you mount, just go forward, and you'll find your. Your sweet spot. And then once you find that, you just work on that repetition. And as you do. And then you go out and do some live fire.

[A]

Yeah, you got to build that in. Right? And even the other day, I shot around a practice just because I'm like, okay, I'm not shooting this week. I want to shoot around a practice and see how it feels and everything. And even in my mount, that first box, I noticed that I was getting lower in the shoulder than I like to be. I was kind of doing the Dave Kelly mount where I was coming down to it, and I was popping my head a little bit, and I said, you know what, Zach? Keep your head up, bring the gun to your face, get level to where you could see. And then I went from like a 22 to a 24, and then a 25 after that in handicap.

[B]

And it was singles.

[A]

Yeah, singles, obviously, but. But it's amazing how you can go from 24, 25 to 21, 22. The difference is an inch, one inch down, or one inch off of the way. And you're still lined up on the gun, you're still seeing the sights, but your head's not the same as it used to be. Looking like this versus looking like this are two different things completely.

[B]

And mounting the Gun. One of the things, and I know we've talked about this in, in a past episode, but when you mount the gun and put your head down, if it ain't right, and you lift your head up and then remount it like that without taking the gun down, you're gonna arm shoot 99 of the time because you've just disconnected. And now you're just like. And then this, you know, So I always tell everybody when that happens, just take the gun down, start all over, start the process of mounting the gun and you mount it and ain't right. And you go, it'll work. It ain't gonna work. And that. It's funny because I do it occasionally in singles and I did it on two targets a day in the singles. And I was like, yeah, no, that's. And I, I kind of reassured myself, it was like, yeah, it'll work. I'm like, no, we're good. And I broke the target. But we were shooting the doubles and I mounted and I went, that should work. And I went, no, no. And I took it down, open the gun, made sure, you know, my shirt was good. Okay. Closed. And then remounted and. And I broke the pair. And we got done with that 50. And. And Tyler said, what were you doing? And I said, I, I mounted it wrong. And instead of just going, ah, it'll work, I said, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

Yeah, and here's the thing, you know, I want to touch on that really lightly. You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now is a bunch of gold and silver from Ron Prescott at Midstate Precious Metal. Show them the goods.

[B]

Listen, all I got silver right now, I won't bring the gold out for Zach, but you gold shotgun shells, 10 ounce bars, folks, he could do anything for you. For all your shoot needs, give Ron Prescott a call. Midstate Precious metals dot com.

[A]

He's a great guy. Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports trap Talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron Prescott at Mid State Precious Metals. Thank you, Ron.

[B]

That's right. Thanks for all the support.

[A]

You know, Rick, when you're riding around your air conditioning and your nice can am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself, where do I get one of these things?

[B]

At Big Red Motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason Lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.

[A]

I mean, I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean, my face is on the back, but help me out.

[B]

Listen, I'm gonna move your face to the bumper is where it's gonna get moved for the new one, okay? All you need is a little quiche and we can take care of you. But listen, Big RedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and George lee and big red motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to talk about Johnson's furniture appliance and mattress. Jason Johnson, he's a great guy. I just seen him in the shoot off the other day. He's helping shooters out with their mattresses all across the country. Tell them about it.

[B]

Rick Johnson's furniture appliance and mattress in witchita falls, texas. They will do a white glove service on tempur pedic mattresses right to your dorm or to your gun club. It don't matter. He'll help you out.

[A]

See, I need it because one of those RVs, they come with them little flimsy little mattresses. My neck's all hurt. I need something good to sleep on. We got to feel good. We got to shoot good. So give them a try, folks, if you're looking for the best rv bed in the industry.

[B]

Yep, that's right. You got to get a good mattress if you want to shoot well. We appreciate everything you do for us, Jason.

[A]

Hey, folks, I got to give a quick thank you to integrated companies out of Utah. They're a great company. They support trap shooting and they support trap talk. Ricky, tell them what they do.

[B]

They do about anything you can imagine for all businesses of all size. But they do insurance, hr, payroll taxes, accounting. But we would like to thank Terry and Flynn paulson for supporting us. We really appreciate it.

[A]

Absolutely. If you're a business owner in the trap shooting community and you like supporting brands that support trap. Support integrated companies out of Utah. Because there's two things that happened in singles. You did it, but you reassured yourself that it would work and you kept your energy on the bird, which meant you weren't looking back and kind of feeling uncomfortable. You were there.

[B]

You broke it, right?

[A]

So you had your head in the right spot. But whenever your head goes into the oh, it's wrong, and you don't reassure. And then you call pull. Well, the first thing you do is you're not looking at the bird now. Now you're feeling the mount because you're enter your. Your direction is now here instead of out there. Right So I think the mount is so critically important, but how you feel about the mount and how you feel about. Am I going to do this or not do this? Because I've had the mount off a little bit in singles and I'm like, okay, based on where the gun is right now, I know the gun is going to shoot a little left or the gun is going to shoot a little right or whatever it is, because it's not in that spot. Now, knowing that if I know that and I say, okay, I'm going to call pull anyway, and I look at the bird properly, usually I can break it, but when I, when I kind of am analyzing it on the way over, well, that's where you run into the problem. That's where you, you generally will miss a bird because you're, your confidence goes down a notch.

[B]

I think you're like, when you make your move, the gun isn't moving correctly like it should for you.

[A]

The same, you, you just throw the

[B]

gun or you, you go slow or you look back at the beat. There's all, all sorts of things that happen, you know, in that split, you know, quarter of a second.

[A]

Yeah. Microseconds.

[B]

Yeah. And in doubles. Yeah, it might work on one shot, but the second shot, you're probably going to be out of the gun.

[A]

Absolutely. And I've, I've done that so many times where you, you, where you break the first shot and because you were mismounded, the second shot's garbage. And you're like, I should have known better. You should have known that that mount wasn't right. And yeah, you could break that first one with it, but when you're going over the second one, well, now the gun's higher or lower than it normally was, or it's coming in too slow or coming in too fast, or you're using that front hand when you really don't want to. I mean, all of those things, I think they're, they're critically important. Now, here's something that I want to ask you, Ricky, because I've dealt with it with some people fat. Some people ask me, when you're dealing with someone that's arm shooting, that's really using that front hand, you know, the old Dave Kelly method. And you're, you know, you're whapping them like you're trying to hit them out of the air. Is there something that you recommend people do to stop front arm shooting? I mean, is it, is it a tighter grip? Is it a, a different type of grip? I mean, what's the thing that helps.

[B]

There's a couple things to do. One is normally when they're really gripping, they're, they're extended out really far so they almost, you know, got their hand wrapped. Bless you. They got their hand wrapped on the fore end so they can pull it in and then they're, you know, doing this move. So what I tell people is take your, your forend and put your two fingers, your pinky finger, finger next to it and then lay the forend on top of that, then close it. And it's tough to do arm shooting, but also just bring your hand back just a little bit.

[A]

Okay, so. So when you bring that hand back, you center up the body versus being outstretched and long, correct?

[B]

Yes. You just don't want to bring it in too close. But also you really got to make sure your grip is, you're pulling straight back. Not what happens on a lot of arm shooters is they're, they're gripping the gun like this, so they're pulling up so they can't move the gun. So this is always moving the gun. And I see you got to make sure that your hand is perfectly, it's

[A]

all aligned with your body and you're able to move from the back. Now when you're pushing to a target, I mean, I know you use your whole body, but would you say that more of the drive from the pad of the gun is, is coming from your upper body and your shoulders, the hips, the, the waist. I mean, what's, where's the, where's the energy driving from?

[B]

I get, I'm more upper body. I mean, in my slender physique here,

[A]

you know, so, yeah, I mean, you're like Jack Lalanne.

[B]

So. But it's, it's, I'm moving, you know, my right hand. I mean, I'm, I'm turning that gun and, and you know, and I shoot all the disciplines, you know, traps, keeping sporting. So when I go shoot the other disciplines, I really gotta pay attention of what I'm doing. Like, what's the target doing? Because I get, you know, a 40 yard crosser that's on gas and I'm like, like, no, you gotta, you know,

[A]

you got to use more of the body. Yeah, yeah. And that, that is the difference. When you go shoot sporting clays, like when we went to Dubai, I mean, there was some shots where you had to use every ounce of your body to break it. You use the toes you use, you use the legs you use. You're like getting there and getting that gun moving because you had to get some serious gun speed. You're not going to see a lot of that on a trap field. I mean, you can break almost everything with upper body power.

[B]

I mean, your, your range of movement is, you know, here versus sporting. I mean, you saw it. We were in Dubai. I mean, we had a great time. But some of them targets were, you know, a school bus lead.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And we're not talking about exacting any short bus either.

[A]

No, we're talking long buses. Not the buses that I grew up with. I mean, these, these things are long. I mean, we're, we're big with it.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's, that's what I just try to tell everybody is you, you want to use that. You know, I always say your, your upper body, so basically your torso, you know, your waist up, turning. But, you know, that's why, like with your legs, I never like to see people dead. Locked or a knee bent. And then keep bending the knee. Now if you're going to have the knee bent, it's locked in that bent position. Correct? Yeah.

[A]

What, what, what I hate about the, the continuing knee bend. Like when you see it, if your knee bent and then your knee bending on the way to the target even more, well, then it's like you're on a battleship in the ocean and your, your gun barrel is actually going up and down. Because even if you're moving forward with your press, well, now that tip of that barrel is going down as you're using that knee. And, and I just feel like it's not stable enough. I feel like you have to have a little bit more stability in the base so that everything is happening up here. It's much cleaner. You know, wobbly legs, I think, is a big problem for a lot of shooters. They're way too wobbly and they're going out there and they're just kind of like floating on the boat. Right. Versus. No, I need to be stable.

[B]

That's the bad thing. That.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

That's the only way you're going to move to that target when you do that. So, you know, keep the, keep the stance good, you know, you know, be aware of how you're standing. Don't get the toes and feet all conjectured and parallel. Yep, that. That's your, your best bet.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. And I'm glad, you know, we kind of got into that today because it's always worth a refresher just to talk about that. I mean, we've talked about it a lot of different ways, but yeah, you know, every time we talk about it, we think about it a little bit differently. We, we try to break it down a little bit differently for people and understanding. But at the end of the day, all the top shooters that I've seen, all of them are pretty smooth. I mean they're, they're not, they're not, you know, jerky or flippy or messy. I mean, even Joe Charnigo, as fast as he's shooting it looks smooth. Like his barrel doesn't go flap. I mean it's kind of woo. Right to the bird very quickly. And his setup is, is, is going towards the bird always. He's always attacking towards the bird.

[B]

He's not pulling the target towards him. But yeah, we're right in the mix of, of shooting season right now, folks. I mean, you know, we had the Western Grand. We had the Illinois State shoot. We had the Ohio State shoot. Now you know, people just came from Minnesota State shoot. And then we're, we're here at Wisconsin. We go to Iowa next week. And then right from Iowa I'm home a day or two and then off to Sparta for the aim. Tyler's going to shoot the whole aim, the collegiate stuff and, and I'm flying up to Minneapolis to go to Alexandria for the Shotgun Fest. I'll be up there for a couple of days teaching. And when is that, Ricky? It's July 24th and 25th. Steve Gold from Target Focus Life is putting on an event. There's gonna be manufacturers there. You know, you're gonna have all kinds of stuff. They're gonna have a sporting shoot, they're gonna have a trap shoot. But myself and Corey Cruz are gonna be doing lessons for two days.

[A]

So the 24th and the 25th, that's that AIM weekend. Friday and Saturday.

[B]

That's Friday. Saturday. Yes.

[A]

And then you'll be coming in Sunday.

[B]

No, I'll be. I'm dropping the camper off for Tyler and them on, on Jody on Thursday or Wednesday. Excuse me. And then Thursday I'm flying up there out of, out of St. Louis and then I'll drive up with Corey. I think Corey and I are renting a car together and, and going up and we'll both teach. And then I'm heading out Saturday night. I'll. I'll get back into St. Louis I think at around 10 o' clock Saturday night.

[A]

So Sunday of the Sunday of the SCTP aim or whatever that is, you'll be there and, and up right before the grand week.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Then I'll be back down and we can, you know, get some content and get some stuff rolling. Get the bill.

[A]

Yeah, that. We've got a lot of people lined up this year at the grand and we're going to start shooting. I know we've got some people lined up on Monday and Tuesday already, you know, potentially Sunday if you got some time. But we'll, you know, we'll talk about that, debrief that. But you know, everybody that's listening to the show, remember, come by the studio for our listener party on the 4th. We're going to be doing a barbecue. We're going to be having some, some, some beverages for everybody. We're going to be giving away some free raffles. Some stuff's going to be there. So we. Not quite sure exactly what we're giving out this year, but we got a lot of stuff that we're giving away and you don't need to buy tickets for it. You just need to show up, get your ticket, we're going to pull names and we're going to give you stuff and we're gonna have a lot of fun. So, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're going to the grand this year, mark that down for a fun time. Come by and see us wear your trap talk merch if you got it. So we can have a trap talk nation out there or come get some. Yeah, we'll. We'll have the store open. We'll have a lot of new. We'll have the new towels, the make trap great again. Towels will be there. We got the new shirts.

[B]

We got a limited edition tile that we'll talk about at a later time that we're doing some special stuff with that. And you know, we got some new shirts. We got a grand exclusive shirt.

[A]

We got all kinds of stuff. It's gonna be a great time and I'm excited for it. I think this ground's gonna go down as one of the books. I feel like a lot of people are going this year. They're like, you know what? We're gonna go to the ground. People that haven't gone in a few years, they're putting it down and doing it. So that's good. But I know we wanted to recap a little bit of Ohio. I know we did an episode there kind of at the beginning of the week, but, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the championship and, and kind of who won what and who did well, you know. Do you have all that stuff pulled up, Rick? Hey, folks, we got to talk about 12 gauge leather works out of St. George, Utah. I just got my package in the mail. I got a brand new trap talk pouch with a holder and shells. I got all kinds of stuff. What kind of stuff you got, Ricky?

[B]

I got the same. Got the initials on there. Nice four box holder. But the best thing is the buckle holder, folks. That is cool. Got a stamp of initials. It's awesome.

[A]

I love that buckle holder. We can. I'm gonna hang that right behind me. When we do podcasts, that's a great gift for Christmas. I mean, think about everybody hanging their buckles up. And you know these guys pretty well, right, Rick?

[B]

Yeah, I actually did lessons at Livermore with them here at the beginning of the year with his Jared and his son Carson. There's a nice little pick of us there. And as you can see, it was a little cold in California, but great folks. They support trap shooting, they support trap talk.

[A]

If you need some leather stuff, give them a try and we'll see them in a shoot near you soon. Rick, I really think that Gunfit is probably the most important part of shooting big scores. Would you agree with that?

[B]

Absolutely. I think Gunfit is the most important thing.

[A]

I mean, most of the top all Americans are shooting custom stocks. I know when I got my custom stock, my scores went up. I broke 100 straight from the 27 within seven days. I mean, I'm sure your experience has been similar.

[B]

Yeah, I've been shooting a custom gun stock for 20 years. Winig, if you want to win championships, get a win of gun stock.

[A]

Yeah, call Bobby, call Luke. I mean, we got the stock whisperer over there. Bill, Give them a shot. They're great and they know what they're doing.

[B]

Absolutely. Winig.com check them out.

[A]

You know, Rick, I. I know you've had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started, but I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping. You know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system.

[B]

It's the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in double from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph. You can see it on video.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, if you talk about that J Hook with Sean, Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop, and I think that's really powerful if you're doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. They love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great, great product.

[B]

Take Aim Technologies.

[A]

Hey Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw Engineering and the Fren family for supporting trap shooting and supporting Trap Talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.

[B]

Yeah, I, I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and, and the family, they're great supporter of the show. Coup just won the Autumn Grand Handicap Championship with a 97.

[A]

I know, I was there. I got to interview him. It was great. Was so proud of him. He's doing a great job. Where's Coupe? He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun.

[B]

So that's.

[A]

You need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you. Great folks.

[B]

Thanks for all the support.

[A]

Outlaw.

[B]

I can pull it up real quick,

[A]

you know, right off the bat. I mean the one thing I know off the top of my head was, you know, George Lee won the singles with the 200 and I was really

[B]

the non resident with a 200. And that was George's first championship.

[A]

Yeah, big one.

[B]

Non resident championship. Yep, yep.

[A]

So he won non resident championship. And I know Michael Wingerd won the in state. So Michael winger broke a 199 and, and he won in state for Ohio. But you know, if you look at the out of state Ohio competition, it's severe. I mean we had, I, I think it was either six or seven, two hundreds out of state and then none.

[B]

Seven of us.

[A]

And then there was none broke in state. Correct, Rick?

[B]

Yes, that is correct.

[A]

Because it was you. It was Jack Knauss, George Lee. I'm thinking

[B]

scores. I'm pulling it up right now. It. Well, that's weird. Oh, it went on a different deal. Hold on. Stand by on the standby here.

[A]

Standby. And if it takes too long, John will edit it.

[B]

I need to go to the high gun list. There we go.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

So the high gun list, it was Brandon Deal, David Elder, Jack Canals, Ian Lawrence, George Lee, myself and Preston Philpott.

[A]

Yep. And I remember the, after the first round there was only a few people left.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. I missed in the second round. And so did Brandon Deal. And it was down to Jack, Ian and George. And Jack missed. And then Ian missed in the next round. And George, I think George won it in a hundred.

[A]

Yep. It was, it was 100. It was 100 shots.

[B]

That's how it was. And then if you go. The doubles was won by Liz Ternice, she won in a shoot off because there was Jeff Fenello, listener knees and Michael Wingert. And Liz won in that shoot off. But for out of state, there was Rayleigh Bishop, Ian Derek, Steven Margerio and Isaac Zillman and Stephen Majerio. Magoo, we call him. You know, he shoots at Lindenwood. Magoo run all the doubles at Ohio State shoot this year.

[A]

He did. He shot great.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he shot great. And he actually won that shoot off, you know, for, for out of state. And then, you know, we move on to the, to the old handicap. And it looks like there was a ton of 98s. One two pot seven 98s in state. Jared Flege, Scott Gabos. Let's see who else. Austin, Jacob and Ryan Mino and Jason Newland.

[A]

Who won?

[B]

I don't know who won that, but I could sure tell you in two seconds here.

[A]

We're gonna learn here in a second.

[B]

We're gonna see it, folks.

[A]

You're gonna learn today.

[B]

And looks like Scott won the shoot off. Austin was runner up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And Ryan Mino was third. Jason Newland and Jared Vy was fifth. Then our, our good buddy, not so Slow Joe, he had a 97. And Joe missed the 99th target. So I felt bad for, for Joe. But non resident, it looks like champion was Garrett Helms.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So he, he had 98 that day. Yeah. So, you know, awesome shooting to. To Garrett. I know Garrett had struggled a little bit and he, he even told me that the day before. And I'm like, well, buy a new gun. That's what I told him. Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's funny how people that are good shooters with some intestinal fortitude, some grit, even when they feel like they're not shooting good, they can still step it right back up and put one on the board the next day. Right. Like you could. Yeah. If you believe in yourself and you never quit, you can always have an opportunity to win. And the other thing that I was telling somebody the other day is you can shoot, let's just say the Ohio State shoot, the Southern grand, the Autumn grand, whatever, any pick a shoot, right? And if you shot mediocre or not even good the whole week long, and then you show up on Sunday and you pop the score in the handicap and you win the handicap, or you pop the 200 and you win the singles, or you pop the 100 doubles and you win the doubles, nobody's going to remember any of your bad scores that week. They're going to call you on Monday and they're going to say, oh, my God, you had a great week at the Ohio State shooter. A great week at the Southern grand because you won on Sunday. And I can speak to this to myself, because this year at the Southern Grand, I didn't have a very good week at all up until Sunday. And then I won the handicap on Sunday and everybody was like, oh, my God, you had such an amazing Southern Grand. Well, my Southern grand really wasn't that good. They just remembered one event and they

[B]

remembered the one event.

[A]

Yeah, I shot the Florida State shoot really well, but I didn't shoot the Southern grand like my high overall. My overall events, they just weren't, weren't as dominant as the next week. And, you know, you look at that and you just, people, I think, judge it, you know, bad both ways. And when I say bad both ways, they shoot really, really bad all week and they win one championship and they're like, I didn't really shoot good that week. And vice versa. If you shoot really good Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then come the all around, you shoot like crap. You leave the place saying, well, I shot like crap. Right. But did you really, like.

[B]

Yeah, you got to break it down in events and, and that's just my opinion. You know, my goal is always to win the hoa because that shows you're the, you know, one of the top shooters there.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

But, yeah, you have a bad event, you have a bad weekend, so be

[A]

ain't over. Yeah, I mean, but, but what I'm saying is, even if you have a bad singles and a bad doubles, you could still win the handicap. Like, you don't have to think all around. You don't have overall, you know. Yes, you know, that's the big overarching goal. But if it's not happening that week, just, I guarantee you, if Ricky's not having his week and he's not winning the overall, he's still trying to win individual events. He's still trying to go out there and finish and win what you can win. If you, you know, I know me and you have both started off weeks early where you tank too many birds and you throw yourself out of it on the first day and then you're just fighting for events after that. And then by the end of the week, you're like, oh, I'm right back in the mix again. Because I started, I started going after those events and jumping up.

[B]

That's how it was at Vernal, you know, at the Western Grand, I mean, I shot decent, but then, you know, I was eight nine targets, 10 targets out. And then come Friday you shot great. 100 double class doubles, 100 championship doubles, and then the Pritham handicap. I said, man, you got to get your stuff together today. You need, this is two doubles, you need to run those, you know, get in. And I didn't, but I did break a nine and 100, so I only missed one. Then I went to the handicap, broke a nine, so I missed two targets. Well, the people that were ahead of me by five, six, seven, eight, nine, whatever, they all missed four or five doubles.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

They missed seven or eight handicap. Next thing I know, I leap, frost change. That's what I always say is, you know, Friday's moving day.

[A]

Especially when you have doubles and handicap or doubles, doubles, handicap. I mean you can't, you can't hide there, you can't hide behind that. And so at the end of the day when you throw enough handicap and doubles, you know, they can't, you know, okay, Saturday 200 singles, it's. You can't gain or loot, you can lose, but you can't really gain on that. You can. Even if you punch the 200, what are you gonna pick up a bird? Pick up two birds? Like.

[B]

Yeah, like it's not usually.

[A]

Yeah. And so, you know, but on a Friday you punch a handicap and you punch a doubles. Especially if somebody's ahead of you going into Friday, sometimes they're getting conservative and they could easily shoot a 96 in doubles or a 92 or a 93 in handicap and theirs, you know, there's 12 birds right there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can, you can theoretically pick them

[B]

up around and that, you know, and it goes like, you know, Ohio State. Shoot, I, I shot okay the first few days of handicap, you know, I was 94.95 and great scores. Yeah, I'll take all time, but when your competition's breaking 97, 98 and 99, you know, but it did save me a little bit. You know, I was still on the hunt till, till Sunday and, and you know, shout out. Austin Jacob won the in state all around with the 393. And then Ian Derek won the non resident with 395. And Brandon Dill, myself and George Lee had 394s and I didn't even shoot off.

[A]

I left.

[B]

We had, you know, 14 hours to drive and. But the HOA, you know, shout out to our good buddy and my squad mate Joseph not so slow Charnigo. He won.

[A]

He got the title.

[B]

Yep. Ian Derek got me by three in the hoa and I was Runner up in that. So, you know, I was happy. You know, Ohio is the largest state shoot in the country, you know, absolutely. Has been for, you know, multiple years. Wisconsin up here, there's knocking on the door a little bit. They're trying to grow and, and such, but, you know, finishing it at the largest state shoot, finishing second. Heck, you know, I was pleased.

[A]

I. I think honestly, on overalls and all arounds, the way I look at it is if you can point, if you can make a top three finish in the overall of the all around at any of the major big shoots in the country, that shows that you're right there. I mean, it's, it's, you know, I didn't have a great shoot at Ohio. I had a good shoot, but I shot steady the whole time. And I, you know, I ended up breaking a 393 in the all around. And I was one bird away from you, two birds away from the other. And it's like, you look at it and you're like, okay, that's not great. But it's right there. I mean, and you can find those birds, you can look back at the week and be like, oh, yeah, that's the bird I missed right there. And that's. That was the mistake. I did a mismound or I did a. I wasn't mentally tough enough or, you know, sometimes you just get a bad bird. I mean, I've seen that a little bit this, this summer at various shoots where the targets, the big birds that have been missed have been bad, bad targets. You know, something came off the arm funny or, you know, something like that. And you know, that can burn you. And then if you miss it and you get angry, then, boom, you're missing another one. I mean, it's, it's.

[B]

Yeah, it's. That's one of the things that, you know, I know. I mean, we've had some weird breakage of targets lately. We've had, you know, just a lot of weird stuff going on, it seems like. And, And I don't know if clubs are, you know, if setting them a little softer. There's just all, all sorts of variables, you know, that, that plan as, you know.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I, I would like to, you know, see, you know, what's going. Because, like, up here today, I mean, we'd smoke some targets, then you wouldn't. And it just. I don't know. There's some, some. Something going on, you know.

[A]

Ricky, I know you used it on your barrels, but do you even know what RGS stands for?

[B]

No, Zach, what does it stand for?

[A]

Really good.

[B]

Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels and it does make them shine.

[A]

Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy, so I got to be better at that. But it gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.

[B]

That's right. Give RGS a try. We appreciate all the support. Hey Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?

[A]

You know I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.

[B]

Well, I'll have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot

[A]

some sporty clays then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it. If you haven't, guys, check them out. You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played if the event's paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with, with the app?

[B]

Listen, SOS Clay's app, it's the best thing out there, folks. You can see everything. It's great. You see your option payouts. You can see when you're up, you can see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but it's.

[A]

I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg, get a hold of him, he'll set you up, he'll get you running. Right? And if you pay the, the premium once a year you get free pre squatting in all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoot.

[B]

Absolutely. SOS clays dot com.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, you got to figure out what it is. You know, you have a lot of things that play at different gun clubs. I mean, you have different setters, you have different weather, you have different machine speeds. Right. Like, and, and that's where I think, you know, we've talked about this on the show many times, but I think there needs to be like parallel minimums when it comes to setting targets. Because I feel like if you're over at this club and they're like, oh, we set them this way and then you're over this club. They set them that way. Completely different. Right. I mean, There could be 12 mile an hour difference of speed between X club and Y club. And you know, and, and really, technically, I mean, are they really even a legal bird? You know, are they. You know, because I, I know we've put speed guns on some where gun clubs get away with throwing a really soft target because they're like. Well, we just like to throw a soft target because people can hit it, right? Well, yeah, but, but I think it needs to be consistent and it needs to be enforced at some level. It needs to be, okay, we're checking these and they're going to be within this range. Right. And I'd say most of the gun clubs do a good job at that. I'd say most. Right. But we're nitpicking at a very high level here where, you know, it's not like this is something that's really policed, right? It's not like the, it's not like the IRS is coming into the silver dollar and doing an audit, right? It's, it's, it's. Yeah, but, but it's, it's one of those things where it's like it's not policed there. You know, everybody kind of runs it their own way and this is what we throw and this is what we shoot, and that's kind of how it's been done. And I don't see as much uniformity as if you would in other high level sports where, you know, they're pumping the balls to X amount of pressure and everything's got to be this way unless you got, you know, like a Tom Brady, you know. But hey, it happens, right?

[B]

That is true. I mean it. And that's one of the things is, you know, each club does different things and they want to listen. It's their, their shoot. You know, they can kind of run how you want to. So, you know, up here, Wisconsin, I mean, they're great people. You know, they weed out cookout every night. You know, it's a great campground. You know, they, they throw great targets. So I think this shoot's gonna be awesome. I think it's gonna be a great week, you know, and then, boom, we got Iowa next week.

[A]

I'm excited. I'm, I'm leaving. I'm leaving this weekend to go to Iowa. I'd love to go to Wisconsin. I'm gonna put it on my list for next year.

[B]

If there's any folks and he hasn't shown up yet.

[A]

That's because nobody's called me with an RV spot. I say, hey, when you guys.

[B]

I got you an arm. You know what? I'm gonna get you an RV spot. Like, you get slicker RV spots in another state.

[A]

Another state. But, but as soon as you, you get me hooked up with an RV spot next year, I, I'm coming. Wisconsin's on the list. I'll bring Joey. We'll come up, we'll have a good time.

[B]

Joey's been here.

[A]

I'm not saying he hasn't. I went there a long time ago. It was, it was back in like, 2007. But I was at Waukesha. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. Do you know how Joey got here a couple years ago?

[A]

He came on the wrong dates, didn't he?

[B]

And he calls and he said, hey, am I gonna make the doubles? I'm almost there. And they said, it's next week. Yeah, you're about a week early. You should make them just fine. And he said, what? And they go, yeah, the shoot's not till next Wednesday. So he drove up to Wisconsin, him and Mandy and Coop, and I laughed.

[A]

That is only a Joe Charnigo thing. You can't make this up, folks. He's our friend. We love him. He's a great shooter. But, I mean, who, who forgets that there's a shoot on the. The wrong week like this is.

[B]

Hey, he was, he was, Listen, he was, he was just coming a week

[A]

early, you know, he was ready.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's, it's kind of crazy. And so this week ought to be good. The campground's pretty full. There's a couple open camp spots. So, Zach, you know, hook up to the fifth one.

[A]

Just come get it lined up, get it lined up for me. Next year, I'll be there. Next year, I'll be there. Okay, next year. I came in on the vernal one this year. I made right on my promise. I, I was there. I said I would come. I showed up. We don't know about the future, but, But I did come.

[B]

Well, yeah, so, yeah, it's gonna be a busy. The next couple months. Gonna be busy. You know, we're hitting, you know, here, Iowa, we got the grand, we got the Cardinal Classic.

[A]

Are you gonna go to Cardinal?

[B]

We got stock deals there. What's that?

[A]

Are you gonna go to Cardinal? For sure?

[B]

Yeah, I'm going to the Cardinal. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Because I, I, I, I thought about it a little bit, but I'm like, you know, I gotta come back and then I'm going right to Dale's, and I'm not missing Dale's because I absolutely love that shit. And I just bails. But it's, yeah, you're just gonna do it. You're just gonna grunt it out, give it away.

[B]

Listen, the Cardinals, you know, Austin over there, they've been doing stuff and shaking and moving and, and they're giving away a lot of stuff.

[A]

They're giving, they really are. I seen what they're giving away and

[B]

I'm like, thousand dollars are giving away.

[A]

It's a lot of cash for a trap shoot.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, it really, it really is. And, and I mean, for me, I'm like, you know, that looks really tempting. But then there's a big part of me that when I just went on this run for the last six weeks and it was six weeks straight, by about week three, week four, I'd had enough of it. And, and, and, and so for me, it's like I'm looking at it and when I really look back at my best shoots and my best runs of shoots, it's usually like a two week in a row and then a week or two off and then a two week in a row and a week or two off. And so that's the main reason why I'm planning on not going, because I don't want to go into the heartland shot out after, you know, week, week, week, you know.

[B]

But yeah, and it is, it can be. I mean, there's times, you know, I've went over the Cardinal and just shot handicap.

[A]

Yeah. But not this time. Not with this stuff.

[B]

Everything they're giving away. And I know, you know, it's the week before. So Tyler starts college back during, I think it's Saturday or of the Heartland Granite Stockdales. So he can't come there, but he can go to the Cardinal. So we might all end up, you know, just going to the Cardinal and, and shooting, you know, just the HOA over there. So we'll see. I mean, that, that's the plan. But as you know, plans can change. And, you know, it's.

[A]

Plans change, obviously. I, I, I just kind of like, I, I, I just experienced it for the junior. I mean, I, I hadn't done that many weeks in a row since I was really pounding the All American team. I mean, it would been 20 years ago. And you know, it's just like I remembered it and I've like, wow, this is what it's like to go week in and week out and weekend and week out. And, you know, it was like, I enjoyed it a little bit, but now that I did it, I'm like, you know what? I kind of want to go back to the way I was doing it. Just, I'm going to hit the ones I want to hit. I'm going to take little breaks. I'm going to.

[B]

It's one of those things that. And. And people got to understand, you know, I mean, yeah, we love to shoot, love to travel and everything, but I haven't been home a weekend. I think I've been on one weekend since January 1 or 2. And that's because I've been teaching and then shooting and teaching.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

So it's, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, you got to do it. I mean, this is what I do, you know, teach and, And. But I'll go and teach for like, you know, I had Vernal, then came home and then I went on a run. I taught for, I think, three or four days in there, then came right to Illinois State. Shoot. And, you know, it's. It's crazy, but you just got to kind of learn to manage it and, you know, travel a lot as, you know, Zach can.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I'm fortunate that, you know, my. My lovely bride allows me to. To do all this and. And she supports me 100 on everything. And absolutely with me when her boss is allowed to. To work remotely. And people don't realize I'm gonna have a sign that the window's right here next to me, working sign up there that says on air, off air, because mama is in here working remotely every day. So I don't even get to enjoy this new fifth wheel during the day.

[A]

You got to go hang out with Justin's.

[B]

Yeah, I am. You saw today.

[A]

I know. I. I know for sure. But you know, it. It's. And that's that much more of the reason why you need to have a nice fifth wheel, because you guys are using it so much. I mean, if this was, you know, one week a year, two weeks a year, that'd be one thing. But you guys are in that thing all the time. It's like a second home. And if you're not comfortable, I mean, that's a big part of it. I mean, you're talking. You're talking really. If you count the days that you're in your trailer, Ricky, it might be three. Three months a year at least. I mean, probably maybe more.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it is nice. I mean, this. This new moment.

[A]

Cuz you Go everywhere with your trailer. You don't really hotel it many places

[B]

anymore but the only time all hotel yeah Is clinics and. And now with this, I mean we'll see. I mean I might, you know be just pulling this to. To some classes. I got a generator on board. That was a nice thing. We picked it up from the dealer. Shameless plug to. To leech campers in. In Lincoln plugging. You know they I. I picked it up and then I took it right over to. Across the street from. From Jody's work at East High School. Parked it, put the slide outs out generator. All three air conditioners. Her bosses come over, checked it out, co workers and they were like the airs are on. I'm like, yeah. I got the generator running.

[A]

We rolling?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean now is that propane or is that a diesel? What do they run on? Yes.

[B]

Yeah, it's a. It's a Yamaha generator, but it's gas. So I've got, you know, tanks, fuel tanks.

[A]

Are they connected to the fifth. They're on the fifth wheel or what?

[B]

In the fifth wheel. And so I've got one that runs the generator. Okay. It holds about 30 gallons. So I filled it up. Then I got an auxiliary tank with a pump that I could put another 30 gallons in so I can fuel up the side by side or you know, you got a car, whatever you need, you know, whatever.

[A]

But it's just so you can refuel your generator with the auxiliary tank. You could refill your big red machine.

[B]

Yeah. If the, if the generator runs out the 30 gallons. Because they usually say, they told me about a gallon an hour you run the generator.

[A]

So a day, maybe a little more.

[B]

40 hours. I. You're not going to run it that long. Because listen, you turn that generator on, we driving in and Justin told me this, he said about 30 minutes out, fire up the generator. I got an app that I can literally, you know, it's. It's crazy you can get on this app. These new fifth wheels couldn't do this before. On the old one, you know, everything was a control here, control there. But on this new one, you know, I could sit here and look at everything and say, okay, this is doing this. This is. Yeah, I can look at this. The fuel, my fuel tank's full. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I can say, yeah, I'm ready to go to bed. Bam.

[A]

Lights off.

[B]

Lights off. Yeah.

[A]

Or you could turn the generator on, turn the AC is on, cool the rig down on the way. You can do anything.

[B]

I can change the. You know, my ACs are at. Well, if you can see 67, 65, and 70. So Ty garage at 65.

[A]

Back there, he's hanging meat. Back there, he is hanging meat. He's hanging me. That's how I like it. Nice and cold. I want to just.

[B]

But, yeah, no, it's a. It's a great deal. I mean, I can turn on lights. You know, I could turn on the kitchen ceiling light, you know, the. The chandelier behind me. I mean, so it's kind of a nice app. But having this nice fifth wheel makes a huge difference on traveling.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Nice bed.

[A]

Absolutely. You can't. You can't replace a good night's sleep. I mean, we talked about that, you know, in an episode before, and we talked about, you know, just the comfort of what you need, how you're. I mean, it's. It's everything. And being able to.

[B]

Jason Johnson, you know.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, he's one of our sponsors. You know, Johnson Furniture, and.

[A]

Yeah, go back and listen to that episode. We talked all about bedding and how comfortable you need to be and all that other stuff, but the reality is just coming back and having a place to relax, get a sandwich, cool down, and go back up for the next event. I. I couldn't imagine doing the grand or any big shoot where I'm sitting in my car all day. Like, that would be. You know, it would suck.

[B]

I remember doing it. You know, I did it for years.

[A]

I've done it.

[B]

Yeah, you have. And you know that we have friends that have had travel trailers or fifth wheels that we. Oh, hey, can we hang out for a little bit? Oh, absolutely.

[A]

I'm there for freaking eight hours.

[B]

Yeah. Like, so what are you doing? Moving in, but I'm there. You know, the nice thing now with. With us at Sparta, you know, we have our building, and so we're in there. You know, we're hanging out. People come in and see us. And then there's times, though, we go in the back to decompress and just relax, you know?

[A]

Well, you need that. You know, you need that. But. But I'm excited. I'm excited to see you next week. We're coming. We're gonna have a great time. The grand's right around the corner. We got a lot of fun episodes to do. We got everything coming down the pipe. So you guys keep tuning in every Friday. We won't miss. We're busy, but we won't miss. And we'll see you soon. Don't forget the listener party on the 4th. Don't forget to wear your trap talk merch. And if you see me or Ricky, come say hi. We'll say hi. We're not. We're not shy guys. We like to talk to everybody and. And get to know everybody and have some fun. So we appreciate everyone listening today, and we'll see you soon.

[B]

Good luck, everyone. We'll see you soon, Sam.