Trap Talk Ep. 121 – Listener Q&A: Your Trapshooting Questions, Answered!

Summary

Trap Talk Ep. 121 – Listener Q&A: Your Trapshooting Questions, Answered!

In Episode 121 of Trap Talk, hosts Zach Nannini and Richard Marshall Jr. engage with their audience through a dynamic listener Q&A session. The episode delves into various aspects of trapshooting, offering valuable insights and advice for shooters of all levels. Below is a comprehensive summary of the key discussions, organized by each listener's question.

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1. Achieving a College Scholarship in Trapshooting

Listener: Wyatt Keller from Kentucky

Wyatt, an eighth-grader with two years of shooting experience, inquires about strategies to secure a college scholarship in trapshooting. Celebrated for making the 2025 AIM All-Star Team, Wyatt seeks guidance on enhancing his prospects.

Advice from Hosts:

• Proactivity & Networking: Hosts emphasize the importance of actively reaching out to college coaches and building relationships. Richard advises, “Never be scared to go and speak to people” (03:18).
• Character Building: Zach highlights the significance of character alongside shooting skills, stating, “Focus on the relationships and focus on your character building” (03:29).
• Diverse Shooting Experience: Exploring various shooting disciplines, such as skeets and sporting clays, can broaden a shooter's skill set and appeal to different college programs.

Notable Quote:

• Zach shares his personal experience, “If you find a team that you specifically want to go to... I already knew 25 people on the team before I ever showed up” (04:57), underscoring the value of existing connections.

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2. Shooting Methods: Lead vs. Pull Away

Listener: Rick Batisco from New Jersey

Rick poses a two-part question regarding shooting techniques, specifically referencing methods like those taught by legendary shooters such as Chris Vindel and Frank. He seeks to understand whether top shooters utilize swing lead or pull away techniques and how these methods can enhance his game.

Discussion Highlights:

• Variety of Techniques: Hosts acknowledge that different methods work for different shooters. Richard notes, “you can't argue that K's method doesn't work or Chris's method doesn't work” (18:10).
• Incorporating Multiple Methods: Experimenting with various techniques and integrating successful ones into one’s repertoire is encouraged.

Notable Quote:

• Rick explains a specific technique, “He’s basically getting on that bird and then as he's on the bird... he starts creating a little bit of distance on the front” (14:10), illustrating the pull away method.

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3. Gun Comb and Rib Alignment

Listener: Mark Eisner

Mark seeks advice on maintaining the correct alignment between his gun's comb and rib, especially when adding washers to his K Trap Special with a Pro Rib.

Advice from Hosts:

• Parallel Alignment: Zach affirms the necessity for the comb to remain parallel with the rib, advising, “make sure your sight picture is over the rib” (27:48).
• Customization: Richard suggests that adjustments may be required based on individual stock settings and recommends consulting with a professional fitter for precise alignment.

Notable Quote:

• Zach engages in a lighthearted debate, “I apologize, Zach is right. 80 to 120” (31:16), highlighting the importance of accuracy in settings.

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4. Pre-Shot Routines and Safety Concerns

Listener: Jim Leonard

Jim raises concerns about observing shooters' pre-shot routines, specifically questioning whether closing the gun while another shooter is preparing poses a safety risk.

Discussion Highlights:

• Safety Protocols: Hosts clarify that as long as the gun is pointed safely and the finger is off the trigger, closing the gun is permissible.
• Respecting Shooters' Routines: Emphasis is placed on allowing shooters to maintain their routines without interference, ensuring both efficiency and safety at the range.

Notable Quote:

• Zach reassures, “If your finger is not on the trigger and the gun is pointed in a safe direction, I don't see a reason why it can't be closed” (38:36).

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5. Enhancing Doubles Shooting and Photographic Memory

Listener: Joe Kapizak from New York

Joe discusses his approach to doubles shooting and questions the role of photographic memory and natural ability in achieving high scores.

Advice from Hosts:

• Practice and Reflection: Richard emphasizes consistent practice and reflective techniques to improve performance, stating, “practice, practice, practice” (25:52).
• Mental Focus: Zach highlights the importance of mental resilience and the ability to adapt based on past experiences.

Notable Quote:

• Richard shares his method, “I would see it and I would make my move, and I didn't second guess” (78:44), advocating for decisive action during shoots.

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6. Optimal Timing for Moving to the Target

Listener: John Vieira

John seeks guidance on the optimal moment to begin moving to the target—whether to stay at home until the target is clear or to initiate movement upon seeing the target's flash.

Advice from Hosts:

• Synchronizing Movement: Hosts discuss the importance of timing when moving towards the target, ensuring that motion aligns with target visibility.
• Adaptability: Emphasis is placed on adapting techniques based on individual comfort and shooting conditions.

Notable Quote:

• Zach explains his approach, “as soon as I see a flash of color, I am moving” (57:33), illustrating a proactive movement strategy.

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7. Introducing New Shooters to Trapshooting

Listener: Edward Ruffer and Joey Lebev

Edward and Joey ask about effective methods to introduce newcomers to trapshooting, including whether to start with three shots and the use of beginners’ equipment.

Advice from Hosts:

• Foundational Skills: Emphasize building confidence and ensuring the gun fits well the shooter’s physique.
• Progressive Training: Begin with straightaways before progressing to angled shots, ensuring foundational skills are solid.

Notable Quote:

• Zach underscores the importance of confidence and enjoyment, “the most important thing that someone can do... is build confidence and have fun” (81:02).

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8. Mounting the Gun and Maintaining Consistency

Listener: David Jackson

David inquires about the ideal relationship between the shooter's cheekbone and eye when mounting the gun, questioning whether this relationship needs to remain constant.

Advice from Hosts:

• Consistent Mounting: Hosts advocate for keeping the comb of the gun directly under the eye to maintain a consistent sight picture.
• Minimal Movement: Encouraging minimal head movement to ensure stability and consistency in firing.

Notable Quote:

• Richard advises, “if you're looking like this... you want to bring the comb or the stock right underneath your eye” (86:00).

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Proactivity and Networking: Actively engaging with coaches and building relationships are crucial for advancing in trapshooting and securing scholarships.
• Technique Versatility: Exploring and integrating various shooting techniques can enhance adaptability and performance.
• Equipment Customization: Ensuring proper gun fit and alignment is fundamental for accuracy and consistency.
• Mental Resilience: Maintaining focus, managing mental stress, and reflecting on past performances contribute significantly to success.
• Safety First: Adhering to safety protocols and respecting others' shooting routines ensure a secure and efficient shooting environment.

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Final Thoughts

Zach and Richard wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to continue practicing, stay adaptable, and maintain a passion for trapshooting. They emphasize the importance of community support and the shared goal of improving the sport.

Notable Closing Quote:

• Zach reflects on personal growth, “you can always grow, you can always change... [and] you can always be willing and welcome to adjusting and improving themselves for the better of their game” (75:07).

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This episode of Trap Talk offers a wealth of knowledge for trapshooting enthusiasts, addressing both technical and psychological aspects of the sport. Whether you're a novice seeking guidance or an experienced shooter looking to refine your technique, the insights shared by Zach and Richard are invaluable for elevating your trapshooting game.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to season three of Trap Talk.

[B]

Brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.

[C]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, we are back with another listener question extravaganza. I've got the guys here. I've got your questions here. And we are going to jump in and knock some of these out. You guys have sent in a lot of great questions. We really appreciate it. Right, guys? The listeners sending in the questions gotta love it.

[B]

Yes, we do. Absolutely.

[C]

So we're back. We've got some really great questions. We're going to jump right in here and get firing away. And guys, the first question is coming in from Wyatt Keller. Wyatt writes. Hi, my name is Wyatt Keller and I am from Kentucky and I have been shooting for around two years. I am currently in the eighth grade. Right now I'm shooting on a high school team ATA and AIM. This year I made the 2025 AIM all star team. Right on.

[B]

Awesome.

[C]

Good job. I am attending the Southern Grand Multiple state shoots and the Grand American.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

What are some things I can do or best shoes to attend to? Work towards achieving a scholarship to attend college for trap. Side note, I constantly watch your podcasts and your videos. Zach picked me for the Blue Gray Shootout last year at the Grand. Made my week. Thanks for everything you all do for the support.

[A]

Wyatt. No, I did pick him.

[B]

I remember, I remember who he is.

[A]

And we just seen him at the Southern ground. Wyatt, it's nice to see you.

[B]

Wyatt, you won the handicap on Sunday.

[A]

Yeah, I think he did.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

The first handicap.

[C]

These guys remember everything.

[A]

Oh yeah, we tried it. Well, Rick, since you have some college background, why don't you take a stab at that question?

[B]

I have college coaching background.

[A]

Well, that's true. I should have said that I, I have more college background than Rick does, but, but it's just a different type of college background.

[B]

Listen, listen, I attended college. I attended college, but it was not studying back in the night.

[C]

But okay, we'll leave that part out for Wyatt. Wyatt's question as he prepares for college.

[B]

Rick, here's what I would say. So I looked at everything, whether it be league scores, the youth team scores, 4H everything. But really is what I looked at is you as a person. That's the, the, you know, how, how were you? How did you speak? Well, you know, amongst, you know, your peers and adults and honestly, you know, Zach and I both met Wyatt and John. I don't know if you remember Wyatt, he come in the building several times at the grand, but he's a well spoken young man and that's the biggest thing, is never be scared to go and speak to people. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That'll get you further than sitting in the shadows hoping, you know, someone's going to talk to you. But listen, just go, shoot, have fun.

[A]

And.

[B]

And the biggest thing is when you do your resume for college stuff, because I always made every kid fill out a shooting resume, and it was, okay, list a few of your wins. But tell me about yourself, you know, because that's a big thing, especially in college, because you're going to meet kids in college that, you know, like I always say, the friends you have today might not be the friends you have tomor when you go through college. 100.

[A]

I think. I think Ricky spot on with that. I would say, you know, if you're asking the question, what shoot should I go to? I don't really think there's any specific shoot you need to go to. I think. I think it has to do with who you're hanging out with. I think it has to do with how seriously you take schoolwork. I think it has to do with the relationships. I will say the one thing that I had going for me with Lindenwood that really helped me get a good scholarship was I knew a bunch of the upperclassmen that were there, and they wanted me to come. So I would tell you, you know, if you find a team that you specifically want to go to, or you start making friends with people that are around your age group, maybe a year or two older, where they go to college, keep up with them. So, like, you're young right now. You got somebody that's a friend that's 17 or 18, couple years ahead of you. Where do they go to college? Hey, how did you like it? Hey, do you like the team? Hey, do you have any friends there? Because for me, that was the number one reason why I went to Lindenwood, because I already knew 25 people on the team before I ever showed up, and they were all able to vouch for me and say, hey, this guy's a good shooter. He's not going to be drama. He's not going to be issues. And little did they know.

[C]

But.

[B]

But, hey, you know, back. Pull the reins.

[A]

Yeah, they pulled that back pretty fast. But. But. But it got me in the door, baby. So, you know, once you get me in, you can't get me out. That's the Zack any way. But I. I think you're right on that.

[B]

Absolutely. With focus.

[A]

Focus on the relationships and. And focus on your character building. And like Rick said, you know, not Being scared to introduce yourself, not being scared to go after it and, and don't be scared to ask. Like, if you want to ask 10 or 15 or 20, you know, college, university, shooting teams, whatever, go ahead. Like, get, get out there and put some, put some footwork in and, and go where you want to go.

[B]

So, you know, why. Here's one thing, you know, talking about the shoot side. Zach's right. It doesn't really matter. I didn't. All I cared about was, listen, could you shoot if you can break a clay target? Me personally, I could take the kids and have them, you know, break other disciplines, you know, other targets and other disciplines, as Zach knows. And you know, when Zach went to Lindenwood, they were more of a. Zach was a trap.

[A]

They were singular.

[B]

Yeah, Zach didn't go shoot, skied and didn't wander and shoot the sporting clay stuff. They had their Each discipline where now it's evolved. So what I will say is, you know, venture out a little bit, maybe shoot a little bit of ski. You know, you're in eighth grade, so you got four years, three. I'd say about three years. Work into some skeets, some sporting clays, shoot other games. That's right. Shoot the disciplines, enjoy it. And then you know what, at the grand, during the aim, they do have the college coaches come in and set up in the. Right across from the trophy room in the, in the shell house there. And you can go in there and go in and just talk to some of the coaches, introduce yourself. Because here's the thing, if you make an impression on them, they're going to remember you, you know, and 100 really, you know, make an impression on them. Go talk to them. You know, you're a, you're an outgoing young man, so, you know, use that to your advantage, you know, and like Zach said, I mean, I remember when Zach went to college, you know, he stopped by here and spent. Would you spend two days or three days here?

[A]

Yeah, a couple days. We went and shot and, and had a good time.

[B]

And had a good time.

[A]

That's where I met. Met Zach Bryant for the first time. I called roommate and just had a, had a great go at it.

[B]

And I gave, I gave Zach the, the old spiel of, you know, you can go to college and screw off and, and, and work for 40 years, or you go to college and bust your butt and get good grades and then you could screw off for 40 years, you know. Yeah, I think you got good grades.

[A]

You have to do the right thing on that end of it, and then it helps, it helps a lot afterwards. And, and I would tell you that a shooting team is so important, but it's not as important as the education. So focal point number one, what kind of education do you want? And, and I would tell you to really think about, you know, layering on top. Really think about what you want to do in a career path before you even go to college and say, hey, this is what I'm going to major in. Because a lot of people show up to college, they pick a major out of a hat and they're like, I don't know what major I'm going to do. And then four years later they wake up and they realize that they don't want to be in, you know, an art major. Right. Like they just took some kind of, you know, thing that, you know, got them through. Right. Really, really kind of think about, okay, do I want to get into business, Do I want to get into, you know, agriculture, do I want to get into construction? Whatever it is that you want to do. Engineering, Think about that and maybe interview some other people before you go to college on what they do for work and try to inspire yourself for the direction that you want to go. Because I think a lot of people forget what college is for. It's to hone your skills in a specific trade. And a lot of people go because they want to get away from home for four years and they want to have a good time. And, and, and when you do that, you haven't really utilized that college experience. And you, you know, you might be better off saying, you know what, I'm just going to go get a job as an electrician and just start making money or, you know, you know, trades. Because there's so many people nowadays that are making way more than college graduates because they were able to use their life skills and their ability and you know, maybe start a business or whatever they, that they need to do. Not trying to talk anyone out of college, but just trying to say going to college just to get in debt or just to go to college might not be the right solution for, for everyone.

[B]

Trade school, two year, you know, colleges. I mean, you got one of the best two year schools in the country with a shooting team, Iowa Western. You know, Derek, their coach over there has done a wonderful job. You know, Tyler was originally going to go there and then he wanted to go to a four year school and, and get a business degree. And so you chose Lindenwood. And, and you know, I'm happy for him. You know, I guess I'LL get to see Zach more. But that's, you know.

[A]

You know, nobody's looking forward to that. Trust me. But seriously, I'm gonna be taking a lot of trips out of town.

[B]

That's okay. That means I'll get a free place to stay at Zach's house, you know, but seriously, listen to everybody out there, not just Wyatt. If you're looking for colleges who. Go introduce yourself to the coaches, reach out to them. Don't, you know, sit back and hope they're going to call you, you know, pester them. Trust me, I didn't. That didn't bother me. When kids would call me someone, you know, they'd apologize. I don't mean to bother you. You're not bothering me. This is what I do. You know, let me know. You know, those kids are the ones that you want versus someone that goes, hey, I'm a world champion all American.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, proactive. Yeah, yeah. You need to be proactive, because if you're not, could be the best shooter in the world. That doesn't make you great for the team.

[A]

Yeah, correct.

[B]

Yeah. You want the person. That's what I always looked at. And I was fortunate at D. The 10 years I was there. I had some great kids that I still talk to today, you know, some of my very, very first year kids. Well, my. One of my first year kids, he's my attorney, so there you go. It's. It's great, you know, so, you know, shout out to Cole Bodfield.

[C]

Shout out.

[B]

Shameless plug.

[C]

But, yeah, Wyatt, we appreciate the question. I'm sure we'll see you out there on the road. Definitely. Come by the podcast studio at the Grand American. Just reminding everybody, right next to the Craighoff store there, so you can't miss us by the studio. Yeah. Stop by and say hi. Keep us in the loop on how it's going. And I think, yeah, being a good teammate is a really important part of, you know, being a team, and I think the coaches will love to see that. And obviously, I think your personality will work out really good for it. So, again, thank you for the question. Okay.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a quick second and give a huge shout out to our title sponsor, Craig Off. Me and Ricky. Bullshit. And we both love them.

[B]

Yeah. Best gun in the industry. I shoot them, I sell them. Nothing better, folks. Get yourself a Craig up. Your scores will increase.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Ricky's got hundreds and hundreds of hundreds with his. I mean, I've got a few hundreds, but. But I'm always Working to get a little bit better. And they definitely help me, that's for sure. So on top of that, we also got to thank winning. I'm wearing the shirt today. Love this shirt. If you're down at the grand, pick one up.

[B]

Yeah, winning. Like I said, Zach, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of my winning stock. You know, get ahold of Bobby, Luke, Bill, get an appointment set up. They will make you a better shooter with that winning stock.

[A]

Of course. Yeah, the Grand's the great place to do it. Give them a call, get on their book. It's worth your time.

[B]

Just remember, winners shoot winnings.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

All right, moving on, guys. Here we go. Next question coming in. Hello, guys. Love the podcast and thank you for sharing your experiences. Here's my question. It's kind of a two part question. Oh, someone trying to get it that's.

[A]

Trying to get two for once. We don't like people ones.

[B]

We're gonna have to start charging for the two for once.

[C]

I know the first one's free, the second one you gotta pay. All right, so two. Two parter here. Not two questions, two first. Okay. Yeah. All right. Most of your interviews cover a lot of great topics that are very helpful to all shooters. Your interview with Chris Vindel touched on, touched on it quite extensively. If you remember, Chris changed the way he was shooting to the Frank little way with lead on is how it's described here. It would be nice to know if you guys know from the others you've interviewed how they shoot, like swing lead or pull away. It's everything is trying to. Or everyone is trying to improve their game, including me. Listening to your podcast and watching the videos of some of the best shooters in the world. And I've always wondered how they shoot. And I'll give you example, like Ricky, Matt and Leo all shooting doubles in kind of the same way, for example. So let's pause here. Let's not get to the second part of the question. And again, this question is coming in from Rick from New Jersey. I'm gonna say it's Batisco. Sorry, Rick, if I, if I butchered that. But I think if, if we could just break down because Chris did talk about him changing his shooting style and he had gone to Frank's clinic and he really wanted to do that kind of. What is it called? Brick. What's the. It's just constant lead or I mean, what was he called?

[B]

Yeah, he leads. But he's. There's a lot of.

[A]

It's he matches the speed of the bird. Matches the speed of the bird and then he pulls away is what he said when he was talking about it. He's, he's basically getting on that bird and then as he's on the bird, he says, okay, I'm going to give it some lead and starts creating a little bit of distance on the front. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a very, very different method, but it obviously works for Chris. But I've listened to that episode a few times because I'm like, wow, I never really heard of that method of shooting. Obviously, obviously it's successful. But I mean, to speak on the point, I think the best way to know what everyone's doing is go back and listen to the episodes because we generally the question, you know, what, what are you guys doing? But more commonly, if they're down on the house or they're a low gun shooter, they're using pretty much a swing through method where they're, you know, they're, they're, they're coming up on, on the target line. They're approaching the target line, they're approaching the target, they're squeezing the trigger when they feel like they're in the right spot and they're pushing through that same target line all the way through. I mean, that's how Ricky shoots. That's how I shoot. That's how a lot of shooters shoot that are, you know, on, on, I would say the house. If they're not on the house, that's where you can start integrating some other methods.

[B]

But that's where a lot of spot shooting and floating, the target comes in. You know, like my coach, Frank Copy used to hold, you know, 18 inches to 2 foot over the house. And his video is out on YouTube, folks.

[C]

Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, you should definitely watch it, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, put a link to it.

[C]

Yeah, so you guys can see it somewhere. That Frank's video is really good, Rick. It is really good. Yeah.

[B]

Yep. I used to watch it all the time. Well, I watched it when I was a lot younger and then I was fortunate. I was with him every shoot and clinics. And so, you know, people are like, oh, you got to beat all these clinics. I was like, yeah, I was outside doing other stuff. I didn't pay attention. You know, I did when we talked, you know, because Frank was a listen, I mean, between, you know, Frank, honestly, there's a few others. But Frank, knowledge wise, probably, you know, him and Leo were the two smartest individuals I knew. And you know, Leo could shoot. But Frank can explain it and so could Leo. Leo just didn't a lot. But Frank really.

[C]

Leo's, Leo's Sunrise production videos were really good. But Frank just seemed like he just had this depth of, of communicating it in this very specific way. But also with this kind of, I don't know, he just gives you this like confidence when he saw. He's like, you just got to do this and then if you do this, it's going to work out. Like every time I watch Frank's video, I'm just like, let's go to the range. I'm ready.

[A]

Let's go shoot some.

[C]

Oh yeah, yeah, no, smoke some birds.

[B]

I mean, dude, you know what I mean? Zach, you'd met Frank?

[A]

Oh, I spent quite a bit of time with Frank and at the time I met him, you weren't shooting with him anymore. And I was starting to shoot with him quite a bit. I shot with him on a lot of his squads because he was just kind of an older guy, you know, and he was just like always kind of shooting with the younger kids or whatever. And man, I shot, I shot vernal with Frank a couple times and that's.

[B]

When I was shooting with Bill and them.

[A]

Yeah, you shot. Exactly. So. So, you know, Frank was a great guy. I got the pleasure of meeting him. I was very, very sad when he passed away. And yeah, it was just a hard, it was a hard blow to the trap shooting community because he was such a good guy. But. But you know, you just gotta have fun while you can and enjoy the sport while you can because you never know when it's going to change. But I think, you know, the best way to answer this question again is go back and listen to the episodes and we're asking a lot. But you know, if somebody says they're holding five or six feet above the house, odds are they're using more of a, a rich Bullard trap target type of method.

[C]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna ask.

[A]

Yeah, so like if you're, if, like if there's, there's things you can take from this, right? Like if you're on the house, you're probably using a swing through method. If you're above the house quite a bit, you're probably using some sort of a trapping method where the target is not getting above your barrel very much. And then like evolve to like a Harlan Campbell method where you're holding high but you're letting the target break the crest of the gun and then you're making a Move to it. I mean, that would be more like. More. More the Vendal method, right. Where he's saying, okay, I'm going to park out here in the skyway. I'm going to let the target come up to the gun. It's going to start slowing down. It's going to start, you know, getting where I want to break it, and then I'm going to make that little move like I was at the house.

[B]

So horizontal move is what? Yeah, like Harlan and stuff, when you correct Occasionally.

[A]

But yeah, so. So I think that they're all different. They all work for different individuals. You know, you can't argue that K's method doesn't work or Chris's method doesn't work, or Harlan's method doesn't work or Ricky's method doesn't work. I think it's. It's another thing. Just put it in your toolbox and say, okay, this is what works for me. I.

[B]

Method, I will say is don't use the hammer method.

[A]

Which one's the rich Bullard? Yeah, yeah, the hammer. The hammered is almost like the Joe Char go, pull, bang. You know that. That's a method you. You can't quite.

[B]

It's very.

[A]

It's. I've never seen anybody that can break them while they're still in the house. That's just me.

[C]

Joe tries.

[B]

Joe tried.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Didn't work.

[A]

Not gonna work. All right, let's go to part two of the question now. So we got a paper just to.

[C]

Wrap that up for. For Rick here, because I've heard you. You guys have say this a lot, is that the great thing about trap is if it's working for you, it works, right?

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And you. You can try some of these different methods. And, you know, not saying bother people on the line, but a lot of these shooters out here, if you're curious about how they're shooting, where they're holding. I mean, when you're all hanging out at the grand and no one's going on and, you know, I've got.

[A]

After the day's done, you know, not in between boxes. But, hey, you know, Ricky. Ricky, what's your whole point on trap, too? I'm like, oh, I got 50 more to go. You'd be like, it's on the house still, right?

[C]

Well, with Rick, it doesn't matter.

[B]

He.

[C]

Rick's the exception. He's the only guy that you could talk to him, be like, hey, Rick, I was wondering about this. And he'd be like, oh, sure, just let me go finish this hundred straight. And then yeah, we could definitely talk about that, but you could definitely ask these guys. I've asked Rick a hundred times. Rick, where are you holding on three for this and that? And he's like, oh, yeah, do here and I'll go try it. Charnigo, Zach, all these guys, they are very approachable. So you can definitely do that. Timing is everything, please. At the end of the day, while we're all hanging out watching the shoot offs, if we're not in one. Okay, so that was Rick's first part of the question. I'm going to summarize his second part of the question. And I think he's. I don't know, Rick, maybe he knows about you, but he wants to know how important you think photographic memory is to natural ability in trap shooting. And I, and when I read this part of the question, I immediately thought of you because I was like, there's only one guy I know as a photographic memory in the. That's Ricky Marshall. So he basically goes on to say here, how important do you think natural ability and the ability to have a photographic memory is for trap shooting? And he gives an example of just some buddies of his who seem to be really great shooters who have this kind of memory. The only thing I could equate it to is that you're just taking in that information and you're able to store it really well. Oh, that worked. That didn't work. So, okay, so Rick from New Jersey, we'll give you kind of Ricky Marshall from Nebraska's take on one and a half questions. Yeah, on one and a half questions here. Rick, what do you think about photographic memory and natural ability?

[B]

Well, you, you, natural ability is great, of course.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and everybody has natural ability. It's just getting it out of them. Okay, okay, that's, that's the biggest thing. You know, people, my number one rule when I teach. When people say can't, you say can't more than three times with me during the clinic. You can't see me anymore. No, it's one of those. I don't, I'm like, no, you're the negative. You know, negativity doesn't work. But photographic memory, I mean, what I would say is the natural ability and muscle memory, you know, practicing the repetition. But photographic memory, I mean. Yeah, I've got one. We just, Tyler just showed me a trophy in the office and he's like, dad, you're my first sub Junior trophy. I won at the grand and the doubles. Would you break 1988 93. Yeah, he just looked at me and.

[C]

He'S like, well, you're just especially home to numbers too, by the way. Yeah, just for the fans out there. His is very focused on numbers.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And, and I, I get that a little bit from my, my, one of my best friends, Jay Beaman, which, he's got a photographic memory where a seven deck shoe. He can. Yeah, that's another episode. Yeah, yeah, that's what, the previous episode. Yeah, yeah. No, but seriously, I mean, I think it, it doesn't hurt. I think that, I don't think you can train yourself to be a photographic man.

[A]

No, I, I, I don't think there's any training going on there, but I do think that there is something to said about people that have good memory and good, you know, cognitive ability. I mean, we're talking about using this Bullseye product and it's for cognitive ability. Right. So at the end of the day, your, your brain.

[C]

Shameless Plug. Hey, I got Project one, who invented.

[A]

Shameless Plugging in the first place?

[C]

Come on now, that's a NINI special.

[A]

I'm the OG Shameless Plug and stuff. Okay, What I can tell you, what I can tell you is this. I think as Rick said, talent is great, but what I don't want people to be discouraged about is if they don't have as much talent as somebody else. If you have any talent and you have work ethic, you can outperform someone with a lot of talent and no work ethic. Because I was one of the people that didn't have talent, I had to really work at it. It was really hard for me to shoot. It was not natural. I was like, man, I suck at this. And I just started working at it and working at it and working at it. And I think memory has to do with being able to bring back past memories. So for me, where that photographic memory comes into play is if you had a shoot off under the lights a few years ago and you remembered, oh, I was moving on the call, or oh, I was this or that, if you can remember that and go back the next time you're there and say, hey, the last time I was in the shoot off, I felt this way. I did this, I missed because of this area that I was doing, you can correct that before you make that mistake and you can move forward. And I think that's what a lot of the really good shooters do, is they're correcting mistakes before they happen based on past interactions that they remember. And so, yeah, you know that it has to do with memory, for sure. Reflection. Reflection.

[B]

I do that a lot in. In shooting and in the. You know, when I'm straight and handicap or even some double. Sometimes you have negative. Everybody gets negative thoughts. So they come in, and I'll do the reflection back of like, hey, I. I broke 100 here before I've, you know, you. I broke 25. Strip, whatever it might be to get your mind switched. But really, you know, just. Best thing to do is practice, practice, practice, practice. You know, that'll help. So, Rick, you know, hopefully I'll see you in a couple of weeks that I'll be out in Jersey teaching, so.

[C]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully.

[A]

One and a half questions.

[C]

Yeah. Well, hey, Rick from New Jersey, thank you very much for the almost twofer there. We'll let you slide on this one, but, yeah, thanks for writing in. We really appreciate that.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take a real quick break and acknowledge the official target of the ATA White Flyer. They've been sponsoring us since the beginning, and they make a great target. What do you think, Rick?

[B]

It's the best target in the ata. Shout out to everybody there. All the reps. You know, Build Daniels, Josh Taylor, Nick Arnold, Robert Crow, everything they do for the sport and all the shoots. Really appreciate it.

[A]

They're always there. They're always trying to make a better target, and they're always supporting the game that we love so much. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

Okay, guys, we're going to keep it moving here on the listener extravaganza. Next question is coming in from Mark Eisner, and Mark writes, I shoot a K trap special with a pro rib. Should my comb be parallel with my rib? I notice when I add washers under my comb that I need to put an extra washer in the front to raise it up to make my cone level with the rib. So that one's from Mark, So.

[B]

Well, where's Mark from?

[C]

He didn't say where he was from, unfortunately. It just says, I add washers under my combination that I need to put an extra washer in the front to raise it up to make my comb level with the rib.

[A]

Well, it would depend on the rib setting. I mean, because when. When Winnick does a stock, they set that rib based on that line up and down, and then they come back with a T square and find that parallel.

[B]

Yeah, but I'm thinking pro rib.

[A]

The front's going. The front's going down the back staying stationary. And so if you keep changing that angle, it's simple geometry. And that geometry line is going to come back based on the comb.

[B]

But he's saying the front has got to go up to be level, so that means it's. It's tilted.

[A]

He probably has that pro rib all the way on the highest setting then.

[B]

That's what I'm wondering.

[A]

So I would guess that that pro rib, the front of that rib, is all the way smoked out to the top, and it's caused him. And. And it could be the way the stock is on the gun, too. I mean, I. I'm not looking at.

[B]

It, but the only way to see. To really tell, is to see a picture of it or see it in person. So, you know, honestly, if you're at any of the shoots, you know, Zach and I'll be, you know, U.S. open, Illinois, Ohio State, Wisconsin, I will be at all those. I don't know about Zach, but. And then the grand and. And then the Heartland, and then, of course, Nevada state shoot, 77th innovation plug.

[C]

Yeah, but. So. So, hey, to that point, though, Rick, if he's saying, should my comb be parallel.

[B]

Parallel with the stock? Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. It could be. I'd have to really look at it to make sure that it's set right, you know, so the idea behind parallel.

[A]

Though, for the folks listening, if it's parallel, it doesn't matter if your face is on the front of the stock or the middle of the stock or the back of the stock, you're going to have the same picture. And where you. Where you have issues is if the stock's not parallel, if it's higher in the front or higher in the back. Well, then when you go back on the comb, you're seeing a different bead picture than when you go forward. And as you're moving to the target, if you're, you know, pushing your face forward or pushing it down as you're moving, that could change your sight picture on the way. And I've seen that happen with a lot of shooters where they're changing their sight picture on the way because of the way they're pushing their faces. They're driving the gun. They're not staying stable with the correct. They're turning in one way or the other. They're turning down. They're doing one of those things. And that a. You know, that's a nasty habit to get rid of because it's hard to notice that you're even doing it. You could be set up the right way, and then when you call pole. Your head changes. Right. And so that, you know, that's going to make a lot of targets go. Go circles instead of X's. And we don't like those circles instead.

[B]

I like that. That's pretty fun. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. So. So, Mark, you know, listen, feel free. Snap a picture, send it in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But focus on your sight picture over the rib. I think is. Is important here. Right? So you're getting that rib.

[B]

He must be shooting a high point impact to be shooting a program.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[A]

At least 80, 20 is the bottom setting, right?

[C]

You think?

[B]

Not on a pro rib. Pro rib.

[A]

I thought it went 80. 20 to 120.

[B]

90 to 120, I thought.

[A]

Okay, well, this is one of those times where the listeners got to send in who's right on this one. So you go on Google. Go Google it, send it in.

[B]

No matter.

[A]

I want to know. We're gonna have a new. It's a new game show called Ricky's Writer. Zach's right. And we're gonna see who. We're gonna start getting call ins and messages.

[B]

Ricky's right, Zach's wrong. That's gonna be the show.

[A]

I'm. I'm betting it. I'm betting it's 80 to 120. Ricky's saying it's 90 to 120, so let's see who knows.

[C]

Okay. So, yeah, the Internet could probably tell us that one. So. But Mark, you know, definitely feel free to send us a picture. Definitely come up, talk to the guys at any shoot and, you know, take a look at it. But we'll. We'll wait for a follow up from you and we'll kind of take a part two on that one. All right. But Mark, thank you for writing in. We appreciate the question.

[B]

I apologize, folk. Zach is right. 80 to 1.

[C]

20 to 120.

[A]

First time I've ever heard it.

[B]

I apologize, Zach. I apologize.

[A]

Hey, thank you. Thank you.

[C]

We at least clip this. We will clip this and we will be putting this out.

[A]

This is a valuable win for Zach.

[B]

Only time it's going to be posted or.

[C]

Or it'll be edited out by Chris, one of the two. We don't know one or the other.

[A]

Depends who pays more. I. I'd love to. I.

[C]

This.

[A]

This is like a birthday present for me, folks.

[C]

Yeah. This may never exist. No one may ever see this. All right, again, thank you, Mark, for the question and we'll. We'll move on here to the next one.

[A]

All right, Trap Talk listeners, let's take a couple seconds and thank A couple more sponsors. First of all, Remington's been with us since day one. I've been shooting these shells since 2007. I shoot the Nitro 27 from the 27 yard line. Ounce and eight, seven and a half and STS, ounce and eighth eights for singles and doubles. They've worked great for me as they do a lot of top shooters all around the country. Give them a try. Don't forget the gun club line when you're practicing and you're wanting to save a little bit of money.

[B]

We'd also like to thank another sponsor, Outlaw engineering. Randy Freston, R2. I've known Randy since 1988. They do engineering, survey and drafting, GIS, civil structural land development, wetland permitting. They do.

[A]

And they're friends of trap shooters. I mean they're trap shooting family. They've been in the ATA forever. His dad's been involved. They're involved. They're beautiful family. They're great people. And we just love that they listen to the show and we love that they support trap talk.

[B]

Yeah, his dad was past president 1989. So I really want to thank those guys for the support and really appreciate it here at trap.

[A]

With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

All right guys, we're moving on here. Next question coming in from Jim Leonard and he writes in and says I just finished watching the trap shooting singles episode. Possibly could have shown the feet position as a practice round was shot. So they're. They're asking for another singles video where we actually show your guys feet on each post. This question has come in. This comment has come in a lot. We're going to do more of the guys shooting this summer. So don't worry about that destructive criticism. Definitely heard you on that one. Oh, the other comment that came in is Zach needed more sleep. That was the other comment that came in here from Jim. So Jim's got a lot of opinions about the videos. When Ricky shot, the gun was solid during the OR throughout the whole shot. When Zach shot the barrel pin to hop after the shot. What would cause this? Zach closed his gun prior to Ricky shooting. Isn't that a safety issue? No, it's not. That's a keep the squad moving issue. We'll talk about it at the local club that I belong to. I act as a puller and safety officer for trap and I ask our shooters not to close their guns prior to turn. Prior to their turn to shoot. You shouldn't do that. We're going to talk about that too. Jim. Love the Show. I'm learning a lot. You guys are great. Very good chemistry. And I appreciate John's input, too. Thank you, Jim. I mean, he's an.

[A]

All right.

[C]

I wonder. I wonder why. I wonder why the question made the episode. All right, so let's break this down here. Let's break down. What's wrong with Zach shooting first, of course, Rick.

[A]

So first of all, because I know what he's talking about and I know what I was experienced then, because I was actually going through some stock adjustment in that video, and it has to do with pitch. Okay, so if your pitch is correct, which mine was not specifically correct in that video because I was actually working on some stock stuff that I was still going.

[B]

That's when you shaved your stock down.

[A]

Correct. But pitch has everything to do with barrel jump. So if you have the correct pitch, the barrel should come straight back in a nice level manner. Okay. Now, if you have the wrong type of pitch, let's say upward pitch, right, that barrel is going to jump up into your face and kind of not move back the proper way. If you have down pitch, the barrel is going to shoot downwards. So when you shoot, you're actually going to see the gun dropping or the tip of the gun dropping out. Now, it's very hard to say what the perfect pitch is for a shooter until they shoot, because everyone's shoulder is a little bit different. So pitch is relative to their shoulder and gives the ability to reduce, you know, reduce fill recoil, reduce muzzle jump, reduce all those things. And, you know, if you've got a very flat shoulder versus a very rounded shoulder, you're going to need a little bit of a different setup on the back of the gun.

[B]

Well, and it also depends on how. So I should be shooting a different pitch than what I am by if I just stood here and mounted the gun. But when I mount the gun, I roll my shoulder forward like this.

[A]

He automatically has down pitch in his. In his shoulder.

[B]

That's what I shoot.

[A]

You shoot zero.

[B]

I shoot zero to maybe one. I mean, it changed now that I've. I've lost me.

[A]

Yeah, and that's gonna. That's gonna change. But that's something we are looking at because ideally, you want the gun to not have a lot of muzzle jump. And if you want that gun to come straight back, we parlay that to doubles. How important is that in doubles? If your gun's not coming straight back, if it's shooting up, it makes it that much harder to make that transition to that second shot, especially with the. With the loop that Ricky teaches. So you have to think to yourself, muzzle jump is everything. And if you could mitigate it at some level, that's a very good, good, good place to start.

[C]

Okay. So also, I do remember that Zach had just come off a very late flight and had a lot of coffee that day. So I just want to throw that in there. I know this was a complete issue.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I think there was a lot of espresso involved in that. Okay. So we covered why Zach's barrel was jumping and Rick's wasn't. Okay. Pretty much. Because that day your gun fit definitely better. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Now.

[A]

Yes. And then Ricky lost £100 and he had to go through the whole thing again. So it's. It. The pain is real. Yeah, I was being nice.

[C]

We're close though, bud. I, I mean. So. Okay, but let's, let's move on here because these guys are experts in shooting. Okay. And I'm an expert in shooter basically having a good time at your shoot and you creating a good environment for your shoot and for no one getting in there. Interfering with the shooters while they're trying to shoot. That's my specialty. But I'm going to let the guys talk about their side first. So Jim says, hey, I noticed that Zach was closing his gun while Ricky was shooting. Isn't that a safety issue?

[B]

You know what I will say, Jim? I agree. I think. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, actually, here's the deal. So here's the deal. I, I tell people this all the time. I say do what's comfortable for you. If you're gonna hold the, if it close the gun, it needs to be pointed outward, out in front of you, down, not down at the ground. Straight or not sideways, you know, so.

[A]

We call that in St. Louis style. If it's sideways, well, you wanna, you.

[B]

Wanna keep it out. And honestly, if you're. Everybody has got their gun on a tow pad or on a pad on the sidewalk and they, the person next to them shoots and then they gotta close it and do all that.

[A]

It.

[B]

You're eating up a lot of time at the, at the shoots, which I know what, you have your time, but. But I would say it's not a safety issue as long as you are safe in that manner.

[A]

If your finger is not on the trigger and the gun is pointed in a safe direction, I don't see a reason why it can't be closed. And for me, I'm not closing it and keeping it closed for all five shots. I close it specifically if I'M shooting post four. When the post two person shoots, I close it, okay. Because that's my timing and my tempo. And I know a lot of people that shoot semi automatics and they're generally using that same tempo and they're generally hitting the button right when that person calls pull. Because think about it. If you're shooting a semi auto and it comes to your turn and you wait till it's your turn and then you got to hit the button. A lot of times you're throwing a target on top of that, too. So with a semi automatic especially, you're gonna have to close it at minimum the, the person before you just so that you don't throw another target when you hit that 391 and it goes ching. And it freaking, you know, throws a target out in the air. So I would tell you, just make sure you're not putting it, closing it. Like, I've seen kids close them and have them on those pads or have them down on the ground and I'll run up and, you know, that's a, that's a huge red flag. No, no, no. You know, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Ever. No problem, you know, there, obviously.

[B]

But.

[C]

And I think that one is actually officially against the rules now.

[A]

It's against, it's against.

[C]

Put a closed gun on the pad. Now, you cannot put it on a pad.

[A]

You cannot put the concrete, cannot put on your shoe, you know, closed gun, obviously, which you shouldn't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it never pointed in any direction that's unsafe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and go from there. I mean, you should be, you should be. Okay, so, so with that, I, I.

[C]

Yeah, I just want to add a little bit here as a guy who runs shoes like the 77th Nevada State Shoot coming up. October 27th. 400 ounces of silver to the winner of the handicap on that Sunday, by the way.

[A]

680 ounces total.

[C]

Yeah. Jim, this, this is the thing. As a scorekeeper, we appreciate you being a scorekeeper. We appreciate you being a safety officer at the range. Most of those are volunteer positions. We really appreciate it when, when shooters are competing, the one thing you don't want to do is to get into their pre shot routine or to get into situations where you're now a part of the shoot. Your job is to be part of the overall administration of that shoot, but not involved with the shooters. Okay. Conversating with the shooters, getting involved in their pre shot routine. Stopping the shoot to say you can't close your gun. All of this is going to get in their head. And you don't want to do that. It's not fair to the competitor. These guys, most of these guys you see who are closing their gun one shooter away, are doing it to be prepared and to keep the flow of the shoot going. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. And again, like Ricky said. Yeah. If someone's closing their gun and then mounting to their shoulder before it's their time to shoot, that's not a good thing. This is now interfering with the other shooters.

[A]

Yeah. And in those situations, they're going to.

[C]

Take care of that. Yeah.

[A]

And.

[C]

But most of the time, the other shooters are going to take care of that. You don't have to worry about it. Okay. So don't get inside their pre shot routines. Let them kind of flow. You're definitely looking out for that gun pointing in the wrong direction. But other than that, I know shooters who shoot, eject a shell, put a new shell in, close it right away, like right away. And they're waiting because that's their pre shot routine. So just be cognizant of that. Let the shooters flow how they need to flow and keep an eye out for those real safety issues. With that said, we really appreciate the question. We really appreciate you watching the show, Jim, and being a scorekeeper and a safety officer. We need more of them, so we really appreciate that 100%.

[A]

Hey, Trop Talk listeners, let's take a quick second to thank a couple more amazing sponsors. Sos, Clay Chute Management, they're doing a fantastic job. I love the app. I love being able to see everything on my phone instantaneously. It's freaking awesome. Rick, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah. Greg Pink and his group over there, I mean, they've got majority of the satellite grands. Majority. The state shoots. I think it's 40 plus state shoots they're doing. But the app, honestly, we were doing a little beta testing with that at the spring grand. It's awesome. You can see your squad if they paid, you know, you can see your options, your payouts, the whole works at your fingertips. Great deal. They're just.

[A]

Ricky, how much money he made before he even got off the line, he was like, hey, I'm buying lunch. I'm like, yeah, good job. We're good to go. We also got gun and trophy insurance. I mean, they're the best in the business. I. I know they're. They're great price. Ricky, you're familiar with them, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Cole and Larry Cushman been longtime supporters of myself and, and I'VE been a supporter of them and, you know, especially with my college team, you know, we require insurance. It's so fast and easy to sign up and get your insurance in literally 10 minutes, you can have your guns insured. And they're just great. They're great to deal with. Like I said, you can do your trophies also, you know, your, your wildlife animals and that such and your guns. It's just a great.

[A]

It's always good when you're traveling around to have that peace of mind and know that you don't have to worry about losing your stuff forever. And these are expensive things, especially when you got those Craig offs, you got to keep them insured. So with that being said, let's get.

[B]

Back to the show.

[C]

All right, guys, we're gonna keep it moving here. And the next question is coming in from Joe Kapizak. Joe, I butchered your last name. I'm sorry, Apologies. I'm working it for 2025. It says or Joe writes in Mr. Marshall and Mr. Nannini. I like it. It's official respect right up at the top. I like it. Hey, guys. First and foremost, I love the podcast. It's got me to break out the gun again after a three year break, mainly because of work. First, I remember in one of the podcasts you guys saying you didn't know anyone who shoots a 5050 gun. Well, allow me to be the first. I shoot a Browning 725 Sporting. If I may, I have two questions for you all. Again. Again, someone to try and decide twofer in on us two first.

[B]

Okay, another two for.

[A]

If you want a twofer, you need a coupon. I ain't seen no coupon.

[C]

Make a donation to your local trap club if you're going to want a twofer here on the Trap Talk podcast. All right, so he goes on. I have two questions for y' all. Why apostrophe all? We appreciate it, Joe. I was spoken to once while at a shoot about my pre shot routine. I don't watch others shoot and I look down after I reset myself after putting a shell in the gun, fix my vest and my glasses and wipe the gun. I essentially go into a sleep mode until my next shot. I was told to watch others because if someone chips a bird and a score doesn't see it, you can let them know it's a dead bird. And I respectfully understand that. For me, watching others gets into my head and I start overthinking shooting. Am I wrong for this? I spoke to another shooter about this and he told me that I pay for my targets and to shoot the targets as I wish and that I must be doing something right because my scores reflected it. Okay. Humble brag. I've never been someone to cheat myself in this game, and if I miss, I acknowledge it. Second, I'm getting into doubles more, and I was wondering if you had any pointers or were going to be up in the Cicero. I live in upstate New York. Anytime for a clinic or even one or both of the grands and the state shoot. Thanks for the great podcast. Take care. Shoot well and God bless Joe from New York. I love it. All right, Joe.

[A]

I love it. Yeah, I. I think the. The one thing that I'd like to address right off the bat is I don't think it's. It is important to watch other people's targets and is important to be for the sportsman of the game. I think we looking to see if someone hit or didn't hit it because we had a couple targets in Florida that we had to call because the scores didn't see him. And it was very helpful for us as a squad. But I think. I think you're looking at this through the wrong frame of mind. I think there's an opportunity that you're not really looking at. The opportunity that I see for you, Joe, is by looking at the targets, you're getting more information on what's happening. Because if you're out there and you're cesareo and you're in New York or you're in Florida, we had some wind, we had some movement, we had some things bouncing around. And by actually just watching what's going on, especially in doubles, because you said you're starting to shoot doubles, I like to see, okay, are the targets going up? Are the targets going down? Is the machine walking one way or the other? You know, I like to be very aware of what's happening with that machine. Not because I'm concerned with giving anyone on my squad a target, but for selfish reasons, because I want to see what. What the targets are doing and what's moving around. Now, on top of that, if you shoot with a group of guys that you really like, I would say they're going to appreciate it if you're watching and you're doing your job and you're kind of helping from a different angle. But I wouldn't, based on the way you worded that question, I wouldn't approach it from a helping other standpoint. I would just approach it from a. Am I missing something in my game by not Seeing birds. Because it sounds like you're focused on doing the best that you can and giving yourself the best opportunity. And if that's what you're trying to do, more information is more information is more information. And you know, I would say take a class with Ricky and maybe you could, you know, get into the mental side of the game. But I don't think, I don't think that when you say, okay, it bothers me to see other people hit the target or don't hit the target. I think there's some wiring that needs to be reconfigured there a little bit. Because I mean it, it shouldn't, it shouldn't be a concern at all. I mean, in any way, shape or form. And if it is, it's probably costing you some birds at the end of the day. In regards to the 50, 50 gun, I mean, Ricky, we, we can go there all day long. I mean, that's my opinion on Ricky. You want to kick the rest of it off?

[B]

I, I mean, you were talking, I was just letting you talk. I appreciate it.

[C]

He was laying it out. He was laying it out.

[B]

So I agree with Zach, but those are the butt in. Everybody's a little different. Everybody is a little wired different. So what I would say is, you know, Joe, you need to maybe go and shoot some practice and, and just say, okay, I'm gonna watch every target and it doesn't matter if they hit it or miss it. But like Zach said, it is about seeing what the targets are doing. And especially different clubs you go to. Is the wind affecting them? Is the machine not throwing a 50 yard target or a 45 yard, you know, the distance, whatever it may be. But yeah, I, I'm, I watch targets because I want to be aware of my surroundings. And that's what I teach all my students is to be aware of their surroundings. That way you kind of know what's going on, you know, so, and can make adjustments, you know, for what the targets are doing. So I would say is really pay attention and you know, just try to watch it maybe. Okay. If it's not everybody's targets, at least watch a couple targets before you shoot. That's my opinion. That way you are kind of where. Because Zach, just like he said, when we were shooting in Florida, man, we had some targets that all of a sudden they were down and you were like, what? And if you wouldn't have paying attention, seen it, you wouldn't be aware of it and be ready for that target, you know.

[A]

Correct. And, and I think that more information helpful long term. You know, we didn't cover his 5050 gun at all. I guess you could shoot a 50, 50 gun if it works for you. I, I don't see a problem with it. I just don't see many of the top shooters at the highest level. So when we made that comment, we're saying if you look at the top five all Americans or the top ten all Americans in the open team, you know, most of those point of impacts, I would say are at least 60, 40 or above. @ least. Right. And, and you know, at some level, give yourself a little bit of forward notion because the targets are generally going up, but you're, you're covering the target.

[B]

Every time you shoot.

[A]

If it's, you're losing, losing sight of the bird. And not that it can't be done and not that you can't shoot good scores that way. I mean, it definitely can. And if you're shooting a high gun hold point and you're trapping the target, which we didn't talk about, well, then that could be, you know, basically you've made your gun 100 high because you've never let the target get to the gun. Right. So if you're, you know, if you're parked up here and that target's coming from underneath and you're stopping it and you're shooting right there, well, then, you know, you've created a high point of impact gun because you've put the gun out in front of the bird that much that, that you're just leading the.

[B]

Target is all you're trying to do.

[A]

You're leading the target. Yeah.

[B]

I would just say is, you know what, if you're going to shoot doubles, 50, 50 is going to be tough on that first shot because you're going to have to cover it and then you're going to be losing the second shot.

[A]

Yeah, he's almost going to have to sit up higher and shoot it like a Bartholow on the first shot where I would say if you're that flat, you're probably, I mean, I know this is against my teaching, but, and Ricky's teaching, but I would almost say with that flat of gun, you're almost going to have to park up a little higher and let the target burn into your barrel and just trap it a little bit because otherwise you're going to have to make such a hard move into that bird, just an aggressive move that you're going all the way through it, break it, and then, you know, to the other one. Especially if they're high and to. To circle back a second on the whole looking at the target thing, I guess. Here's another question that came to my mind. Is it because you're looking at all the targets very hard? Because for me, I know I'm using soft focus on all the targets, but the one I'm looking at that I'm shooting. So you're not wanting to like, if, if maybe you're straining your, like trying to look really hard and focus on every bird and that makes your eyes tired. That could be an issue, I would say, Joe, you know, maybe just kind of a general soft focus look point. And then when you look at your birds, you look intently. Right. So there's different, there's different types of looks that you have. And you know, I'm not looking at those other targets on my squad, mate, with the insane intense intensity as I am. I'm shoot looking at mine when I'm on the gun.

[B]

Trust me, I know.

[A]

Yeah. Especially not Ricky's, ever.

[C]

Well, thank you guys and, and definitely we appreciate that question, Joe. Yeah, I think I have, you know, just to wrap it up, guys. I've heard you guys say, and maybe we could just give it from this perspective. You guys definitely do keep an eye on the birds for the squad. You guys are kind of in that part together, right? Make sure that the game is being accurately reported. I think when you get to the level of, you know, Joe, when you get to the level of like Ricky and Zach and the squads that they're shooting on, they are watching the birds because not only do they want the situational awareness, they want to make sure the game is run correctly. Right? So, yeah, it definitely, I think you could, you could get yourself probably to a level where it doesn't affect you negatively. It keeps you more in the moment. You know, maybe that's where you're at it.

[A]

You know, you can always grow, you can always change. There was things that I was doing when I was 15 years old that I'm not doing now. There was things that Ricky was doing when he started that he's probably not doing now. I mean, there's. This game is about evolution and change. And so I think everyone needs to be willing and welcome to adjusting and improving themselves for the better of their game and for the better of the sport. Not just to say, this is how I have to do it and if I don't do it this way, it's not going to work. Because here's the other thing. There's going to be some days where Your little process and your little thing isn't available to you for some reason, and you're going to be like, oh, crap, I got to shoot bad today because they didn't have red Gatorade instead of blue Gatorade. Right. I mean, it's like, you got it.

[B]

That's what I drink.

[C]

Always.

[A]

You've got to be willing to accept that there's always going to be changes, and there's always going to be things happening in the environment that you're going to have to go, you know, go through.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. And then I think on the 50, 50 gun thing, it probably. He could probably make it work on singles. Right. But what is when he starts getting singles?

[B]

Yeah. You know, long yardage is going to be really tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So to Zach's point, maybe, maybe, you know, Joe, to that point be open to that. Part of the change, too, is that it may be the 50, 50 is working for you now, but as you start to, you know, get maybe punched back further, you may want to try. Oh, well, what happens if I bring the point of impact up a little bit? Do I.

[A]

How high could you go, Joe? Like, I don't know what scores you're shooting. Are you shooting 99 average every time? Right. I mean, if it's, if you're there, then we can adjust. We can't improve. I mean, I think when anyone gets to that, that 99 plus singles, you could say, okay, I've. I'm. I'm in a. I'm in a spot where there's not a whole lot of room for improvement. It's a more mental game. Right. But wherever you're at, if. If you know you're somewhere 90, you know, 91, 92, 93.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And it's okay to be happy with that zone. There's nothing wrong with that. But could you say, well, what could I do to get to 94? What could I do to get to 95? What could I do to 96? 7, 8, 97.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The biggest thing for me was once I, you know, first one was I wanted to average 90, and then it was 90, you know, 5 and 96 and in 98 and then, then 98 to 99 took a long time, but, you know, once you get to that point now, it's like. Okay. Minuscule change.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, Joe, thank you again. We really appreciate the question. Send us any follow ups. Let us know how it's going. If you ever get to 60, 40, please definitely write in, let us know.

[A]

All right. Folks, we got to take a quick second and give a shout out to the Cardinal center in Marengo, Ohio. They hold the Cardinal Classic, and they also hold the Ohio State shoot, which is home of the first back fence shootout. Ricky, what do you think about Ohio?

[B]

Listen, I love the Cardinals Center. I actually broke the first hunter from the 27 there at their very first shoot ever. Great place. Jake Spangler and their whole clan there. They do an awesome job at running the shoots. The Ohio State Shoots ran by the Ohio State association, the Cardinal class classics right after the Grand. So if you're looking for some. Some more points right after the grand, hit that up so you can get a little more points than old Zach here. But listen, it's a great shoot, great facility.

[A]

It really is. I. I personally love the RVs. They've got great camping there. They've got a great time. Good shoot, good target presentation. Go check it out. It's worth putting on your list. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

All right, let's keep it moving here, guys. Next question coming in from John Vieira, and he is from Tiger Track, home of Dan Benez.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Okay, so this John is writing in and he's saying, my question is this. When should trap shooters begin their move to the target? I've heard some instructions say, keep the gun at home until you see the target clearly, while others say, begin your move to the target on the flash of the target.

[A]

It.

[C]

But only pull the trigger when the target is clear and in focus. What's the best. Best method? Stay home or chase it down? And PS Please interview Dan Venus on the podcast.

[A]

We're trying to.

[C]

Of course, trying.

[B]

We got to see Dan at the. At the shot show. It was great to see Dan. So first thing you want to do is as soon as this is how I shoot, being down on the house, as soon as I see a flash of color, I am moving. And as soon as I make my move and I'm matching the speed, everything clears up and bang, dead target. So that's what you want to do now as far as. If you stay home to stay on the house and then wait for it to be clear, you're going to be so much of a disconnect away from the barrel that it's going to be a stab move. So people that do that a little bit are more of the high gun holders that they're looking under their barrel, and as soon as it's rising up, oh, it clears up. And then they make a slight move and Pull the trigger. Me, personally, I'm wanting to come from underneath the target so I always see the target.

[A]

Yeah. I'm going to echo what Rick. Rick just said. I think that's a perfect analogy. I think the most important thing is holding still when you called pull.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that you could see the target. Right. And then from there, you move when you move. Now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now I will say there's times where I'm seeing the target, and as it's coming out, I'm coming out with it instantaneously. And there's times where. Yeah. And there's. And there's times where I might be at the house a millisecond longer until my eyes really lock onto it a little bit better, and then I make the movement. But it's never sitting at the house and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. I mean, it's not. You know, you're not doing that. I mean, you're pretty much going to the flash or at least starting to move to the flash, and then things are clearing up as you're getting there. And with the exception of holding a lot higher, I think some parallels that you could put into it is how fast do you move the gun and how high is the gun? You know, if you're. If you're saying, okay, I move the gun really, really, really, really quickly, you know, like a Joe Charnigo. Well, maybe a Joe Charnigo might let the target come out a little bit farther before he gives it that move then. And, I mean, I don't know if that's necessarily true, but, but, but, but, you know, it's one of those things where he's going so hard at that target.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That he's able to close that distance. And if you're getting on the top side of the bird before it clears up, like, Ricky's coming in with that perfect timing where it's clearing up and he's breaking it. Right. But if you're getting that gun on top of the bird before it's ready to break it and it's causing you to stop or shoot behind or anything like that, well, then that might be an opportunity to say, okay, I'm gonna stay home a millisecond longer. I'm gonna. I'm gonna see it just. I'm coming out just a little bit too quick. Right. But. But that just has to do with the brakes. You have to look at the brakes and, and, and. And the, the weather, the height of the bird and the. And the, the sunlight, I think, is gonna have a Little bit of a difference on how you see a bird every day, right?

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

It's not, it's not going to be like exactly. Yeah. It's not going to be exactly, exactly the same from January to December at every club you shoot. It's going to be what works, works for you.

[B]

See it, you want to see it clearly and when you're pulling the trigger.

[A]

Correcto, Mundo.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So the third method, which is not the good method is to move on the call.

[B]

Yeah. Do not anticipate. John.

[C]

That's the one to avoid.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, speaking personal experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, John, again, we appreciate you writing in. Good question. Thank you very much. And obviously we're working very hard to get Dan on the show. You know, when, when he's ready, we're here for sure. So we'll keep working on that. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

There's anybody that wants to help get anybody of the all time greats on the show. You know, like we had people call in and help us get Brit Robinson on. I mean, if there's people that can help coordinate, you know, the camera and the microphone and you know, getting them to understand the technology. Of course we want to interview these people. But that's my, my ask for the, for the listeners today is, you know, if there's someone out there and you want to help get us connected, please do. But sometimes it's just literally a lack of technology for these people. Like, yeah, Brent Robinson had to go to somebody else's house because he said had a computer. What's that like? Keith Ditto's the same way. I mean his idea of technology on a, on a cell phone is a flip phone Nokia. I mean he's got, you know, he's, he's locked in.

[B]

I'm gonna see Ditto this weekend. I'm gonna say, hey, Zach said yeah.

[A]

Yeah, Zach didn't lie either. You should see that thing he's rolling around with.

[B]

I mean, you could, yeah, you could.

[A]

Kill somebody with that thing, but.

[C]

Well, yeah, for sure. Feel free to send it in. You can send it to me, John. TrapTalkPodcast.com or send it into the Ask Us hat. And yeah, we'll take any help we can get to get some of these crates on, so. Definitely, for sure. We're always trying.

[A]

Hey, Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a real quick break and we got to thank Ron Prescott from Mid State Precious Metals for everything they do for the Trap shooting community coast to coast for all your gold and silver buying needs. And on top of that new announcement They're a sponsor of the 126 Grand American.

[B]

Finally, he said it right, folks. Grand American. Yeah. Ron is a great guy. He's a sponsor of the back fence shootout at Nevada state shoot and Ohio state shoot. And also we got our gold for our trap talk event at Nevada state shoot and the 77th annual Nevada State shoot. They bought all theirs from it. 680 ounces of silver to be exact. Exact, folks, you're missing out if you're not there.

[A]

That's a lot of silver. And honestly, if you're not buying from Ron, you're probably overpaying. So whether you're buying it for your gun clubs or your shoots or for your personal use, you got to give them a try because they're big supporters of the trap shooting nation, so it's awesome. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

Okay, guys, next question coming in from Joe lebev. I. I'm struggling today with these. What's going on? I, I, I think they're messing with me. L E. Listen, it's L. Let's just redo that.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

No, no, no, no. This stays in. Leave this in because this is important. I think that. I think the fans are messing with me. They know I struggle with reading out loud. It's l e, f, e, b, v, r E. Exactly. Thank you. We're just going to go with Joey. All right, Joey, listen, I apologize. Yeah, Joey. I apologize for last name. I'm struggling today. All right. Joey writes in and says, longtime recreational shooter and hunter, first year trap shooting. Welcome to C.H. yeah, for sure. After being introduced to the sport In September of 2024, I have become hopelessly hooked on the sport. Join the club. It happens to the best of us. I shot my first 25 a couple weeks ago and I'm pitching for the next one as well as competing in the future. My question, how can I get meaningful practice time with limited resources on days where we do not have scheduled shoots? My club does not allow members to operate the trap house unless supervised by volunteers who run trap days. And they often do not want to stick around for one person. They do allow you to use the trap field on off hours. Days, hours. Just not the machine. I've been throwing them by hand thrower, but as you know, it's not really the same. Am I wasting money time practicing this way? Should I buy one of those cheap mechanical throwers that operate via a rope pull again? Joey slid a two friend for me. Joey, I'm going to pause here because your first question he got us. He did. He didn't say he was going to put a couple questions. He just went right into question two. So let's stop here because I think this is an important question. Sometimes where you live, the club doesn't, you know, he's not open all the time. So where is he?

[B]

Did it say where he lives?

[C]

Unfortunately, Joey did not let us know where he's from, but he's got limited practice time. You know, I think that, that definitely some other shooters.

[B]

Yeah, I, I mean, I'm sorry to hear that. But I would say that you are better off shooting off the machine versus the hand thrower because it's just not the same.

[C]

Yeah. It's not the scene.

[B]

Not even close.

[C]

Maybe there's, maybe there's a club that he could travel to a little bit. Like, you know, depending on the different places we've lived, we've have to drive five minutes to a club.

[A]

This is a really hard question because I feel like there's a better solution than any of those solutions that we were trying to list. Like maybe could he register to be a volunteer at the club and get trained and then be able to, and then be able to actually use the trap? Like, like, can you make connections and work it in to where you can actually use it? Because if there's a trap there and there's a machine there, I mean, I feel like there needs to be a better solution to this than hucking them off, you know, hawking them off. An easy thrower. Right? Yeah. At the end of the day and.

[B]

You know, you could buy a, you know, a battery powered machine, but the cost of it, I think you're better off.

[A]

Limited resources. So I'm assuming he doesn't want to buy his own stuff based on that. But I, I would tell you, you know, if, if resources are limited. Me and Rick talk about practicing gun mounts. We talk about making sure that you're doing purposeful practice. So when you do go out, you know, are your feet the right way? Are your whole points correct? Are you still, are you ready? And not just blasting away, but practicing with a purpose. And I think the more that you practice with a purpose and the more you spend time, you know, journaling, thinking, listening to the podcast, going through your pre shot routine, doing your gun mounts, you know, all of those things that you, you can do in the free space, the better you're going to be off in the, you know, cost prohibitive, you know, training place.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because you can, you can do a lot of Stuff. A lot of stuff can be done off the range. And, and, And I would, I would do that, especially if he doesn't have the available practice. I'd be doing. I would be doing a lot of guns.

[B]

Reach out to the club and do the gun mounts. Yeah, do those always. But for sure, reach out to the club and, and the. And the resource people there and just say, hey, what. What could I do to become one of these people? So then I could possibly use the facility because, I don't know, certified. Well, why wouldn't the club want to throw more targets?

[C]

They usually want to throw more birds.

[A]

Like, Like I would want to almost even go to the board and be like, hey, guys, why? I mean, because if this is something you're running into, I'm sure a lot of other people are running in the same problem. Like what? Like, why wouldn't the club.

[B]

Club.

[A]

Every club that I've ever been to and worked with, the object of the club is to put targets in the air. So if people have Jordan discs, if they have to sign a liability waiver or they have to do a training course or they have to do whatever, I think those are the solutions. Not, hey, you can't use the damn trap. You know, and. Yeah, and that's something that I would. I would tell you that, you know, get enough throwing registered shoots.

[C]

They got shooters, right? They have shooters. And, and Joey, listen, it's not out of the realm. Like, there is liability involved, right. So they can't just have anybody jumping down there. But usually it's just a situation of, hey, we need to train you on the machine. Hey, you got to sign this waiver. Hey, you got. I would say keep maturing those relationships with the, with the people at the club, because usually the people at the club are also shooters and they want to throw birds and they want more shooters out there. So it's mutually beneficial. I. I would definitely say keep working.

[A]

Hopefully there's a solution there.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. Okay, we're gonna, you know, because Joey's a new guy. He's new to the sport, we're gonna.

[B]

Give him the twofer he got free too.

[A]

For no coupon. No coupons. All right, Trap Talk listeners, we got to take a quick break and we gotta welcome a new sponsor to the show, RGS Board Stripper. It's a great product, Ricky. Tell them how they can find it.

[B]

Go to their website, rgsguncleaner.com you can get the 18 oz bottle, free shipping, 28 oz bottle and you get the 2 oz travel bottle and it's free shipping also. Or just get the little 2oz bottle for travel.

[A]

Yeah, they sent me some of this product and I used it on my Craig off choke tubes the other day and it got the plastic out like in a minute and it was super cool and super good. So if you like cleaning your gun, you like eliminating plastic, and you like shiny bores, give them a try for sure. Thank you so much for supporting the show.

[B]

Yeah, we'd really like to thank John Weber, the owner, for the support. He's doing an awesome job.

[A]

Yeah, we really want to thank John. We appreciate the support of the show. Anybody that supports Trap Talk, you guys need to support them and get this stuff because it's awesome.

[B]

And with that, let's get back to the show.

[C]

Next question is directed to that. Oh, well, it's directed to Zach. I think we should.

[B]

Veto it.

[C]

Direct is directed at Zach. As a fellow finance professional, how do you make time to practice other than weekends? Seems like you own your own practice. So I have answered my own question, but I assume it wasn't always like that. Thank you for your time. Hoping to hear from you guys soon. Kind regards, Joey. We know the rest.

[B]

Hold on, Zach, don't answer yet. I want to say this first and it's, it's a short answer. Covid is what got Zach to be able to shoot more. That's it. There you go. Move on.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I, I will say, I will say I'm very, very blessed. So, you know, at the beginning of my shooting career, you know, I only had access to the range in California if my dad were to take me. So it was like. And so this has been going on a very, very long time. But as I, you know, to get to grow into the game of trap. For 20 years, I made it a purpose to say, okay, where I'm buying a house, where's the trap club? So can I join the trap club? I joined Daniel Boone. You know, I met Gateway Gun club. They're both 15 minutes away from my house. So I plan my life accordingly. And then when Covid happened and we started going virtually, I started saying, okay, I'm gonna do a lot more virtual appointments and I'm gonna start scheduling and practice now. You know, the good news is in these scenarios, I'm not really windowed by time. So a lot of times I do go out there at 8 or 9 o' clock at night and shoot under the lights and, and do those types of things. If I need to train you Know, and I like doing that. It prepares you for the grand. If you get into a shoot off under the lights and you've never done it. I will tell you single handedly, I think the number one thing that made me a good shooter at the beginning was the only targets I shot for the first six months were night targets at Metcalf Field Sports park. And those were under lights and there were hand pull. So you got a hand pulled target and you got under light. And I think that, that for me gave me a really good base to the start of the game. Because when you, when I went out and shot in the sun the first day, I'm like, oh my God, look how big those things are. Like I'm used to shooting these little, little black little pills that are like running out the side of the house and you hit like 22 of them and you're a stud. And now the lights are on and I'm like, this is, this is, this is great. Right. So I just think there's an opportunity to, to, to try to plan your life around it over time. Maybe not right now, but five years from now or 10 years from now, you might be set up to where you're living, where there's a range, you have access, you have key, you have whatever. Right. I mean, but that just doesn't happen overnight by the way. No, it does not.

[C]

Yeah. Hey, Rick, to that point you just made me think. I think, you know, shooting under the lights at night is something obviously that you've done very well at in your career. Do you just, as a kind of a small tangent here, do you recommend as part of like a training regiment that hey, if you get into some of these bigger shoot offs, you're probably going to be under the lights. Right. I mean if we talk about the satellite grands, if we talk about obviously the Grand American, is it maybe a good practice to try to get in some of that night shooting so it's.

[B]

Not completely foreign to you like, like Zach said? I mean, I used to shoot leagues here in Lincoln, Nebraska and, and I shot every night. Deal. They had Jackpot Shoot, Little Calcutta, whatever it was under the lights. Because shooting under the lights is different than shooting during the day.

[C]

Yeah, you see shooting, that's a really good. Yeah, league shooting is a really good one. So we have a pretty big league out here in Vegas. And yeah, it is all night shooting. Sometimes you get cut, caught in that like transition time where you're getting a little dust.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. That changes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that Training at night is. Yeah, it's probably really helpful. Right.

[B]

Yeah, if you can. I mean, Zach's posted some videos on his own stuff of him shooting at. At Daniel Boone, some doubles. He claimed to break 99. We saw a few targets that didn't.

[A]

Chips.

[B]

Guys. If you watch the video, he raised his hand. He's the only one there.

[A]

I mean, I said, hey, that was a chip.

[B]

But, no, honestly. And that's. It's good practice to do. If you can, if you have the ability to do that, then I would highly recommend that. Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah. Well, Joey, we really appreciate the question. Stick with it, you know, bug the club, you know, and, you know, make those relationships. And I'm sure that you can, you know, get some targets thrown there or.

[A]

Move to St. Louis. Come on.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Move closer to a trap club. When I moved to Vegas, I. I drew a box. I said, this is, you know, 10 minutes from the club, and that's where I want to be. So, yeah, it definitely helps.

[A]

All right, folks, we got to take another quick break and thank one of our show sponsors. 73 Pointers Ranch, Jonesburg, Missouri. Rick and Carla Burke. Best place in the area to go shoot chuckers and pheasants and have a great time. Rick, we got to get you down there.

[B]

Yeah, I need to come in. Hopefully I'm. And do some hunting with you guys and come to your. The annual clay shoot in August right after the grand.

[A]

It's a lot of fun. It's the Optimist Club charity shoot. They throw a charity shoot. They put it on, and it's wonderful. I think last year they had over 100. 100 entries into it, and it's just a good time. With that being said, let's get back to the show.

[C]

All right, guys, we're moving on here. Next question is coming in from Edward Ruffer. And I just want to thank Edward for having a pronounceable last name. Okay, that's first off. That's first off.

[A]

This makes it easier for John's life.

[C]

Yeah. If you've got a really difficult one, maybe just phonetically spell it in the emails. And don't forget about your punctuation. I. I swear I think they're doing it to me on purpose. So. Okay, here we go. Edward writes in. I wanted to ask Rick Marshall to explain what he did to be able to shoot so well at the spring Grand Singles Championship. I was out there at the shoot, but I literally was getting blown off the line by the wind us. I know he didn't win, but he had a 197. That day was absolutely the worst wind I ever shot in. What did Rick do differently, if anything? Sincerely, Edward Ruffer.

[A]

Edward, I gotta jump question. I think it's because he's got a stable base, you know, like, he's like Stonehenge when he's standing there. You're not going to move him.

[B]

You can't use Rich Bullard's line. That's what Richard said this honestly, and. And Zach is correct a little bit about this, but I will tell you, you know, I did break 197 and that there was two 198s and two 197s. As we clarified in one of the other episodes. Zach said there was multiples. It was me and Jack Wang. So.

[C]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Which could shoot in the jacket.

[C]

It was a rough day. And Ed is right. It was a rough day.

[B]

Yeah. It. So here was the thing I will say is I broke 99 straight. The first hundred, missed the last one because it blew me as I was moving, and it also blew the target down. But what I really did, every target, and I mean, all 200, was focused. I would. I would see it and I would make my move, and I didn't second guess. You know, there were some that they would come out and whoop, and I would just go, okay. And go right up after. And then some was like full bang. I was not shooting real deliberate in those conditions, because you couldn't. I just shot when I was on it, and I just said it was like, in. In the words of Joey Turner, go's lovely bride, Mandy, Send it. That's what I did. I just sent it. Every shot. It was. I. I mean, so I was fortunate to have a 197. And it was tough. I mean, that was some of the toughest wind I had. And it wasn't like it was a straight win. It was that gusting.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was. John, you were there. Zach, I was curled up in bed. I mean, had a pillow.

[C]

He was safe. He was safe and sound. But it was. It was shifting wind. It was coming from different directions, as Tucson can do to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The rest of the week was gorgeous. I mean, the rest of the week, the weather was amazing, but that day was definitely rough. And for the guys like you, who definitely pulled a score there. Yeah. I think focus was probably a hundred percent of. Of what you had to do, that you had to stay in it.

[B]

You couldn't let the wind. And here's the biggest thing. The mental side of it is when it's windy out and you go out there like, oh, the targets are jumping around. Oh, the. When you start throwing out all the negative stuff, it. It starts affecting this. So me, I'm just like, okay, targets are going up, tarts going down. Yeah, shoot them where they're at now, where they're supposed to be.

[C]

And you guys kind of had the same conditions in Florida a little bit. You had a couple of days of wind, right, for the doubles.

[B]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but it wasn't. I mean, it was. It was a little. It was blowing in the single.

[C]

Nothing like Tucson, though, but.

[B]

Nothing like Tucson. I mean, it was, you know, so. Yeah, so that was. It was. It was a tough day. And I was fortunate to break 197 and. And take. I guess I was AAA champion because Jack was class A, I think if I remember.

[C]

Class A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So stable base focus. Trust. Trust your instincts and just try to send it. Get after.

[B]

Send it.

[C]

Yeah, send it. I love it. Zach, any. Any comments here for Ed about how great Ricky did in Tucson that you weren't there?

[A]

I stick to the stable base and I think if it would have go, he'd have broke that last one because he'd had a little more base to him. So. Yeah, yeah, that's my. That's my perspective because I seen him out there and win. That was like, you know, would suck up houses and he's just. Just blasting them. And you know, I says, damn, Ricky, you know, but hey, I. I like the slim version. It's like 3.0 now, but, you know.

[B]

But you're getting blown over.

[A]

He's missing targets because of it. Back on the biscuits.

[B]

Maybe I'll take the lesser lbs than back on the. That's for sure.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. Edward, thank you again for the question. We really appreciate that. Okay, guys, we're keeping it moving here. The next question came in from Ed, the man who has a AOL address. So his AOL address was Ed the Man. He didn't put his name, but Ed the Man says, Rick and Zach, how do you start off a brand new shooter? Would you stand them on three, lock the trap and let them shoot 25s. Is it a good starting point or not? If not, where would you start them off? Hope to see you guys in New Jersey again with the juniors. So we're talking new shooter here, Maybe. How do you introduce them to the game? Like, you know, maybe get them. Get them that first round of confidence or something.

[B]

Honestly, number one, make sure the gun fits. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That's for make sure the gun as best it can. But I would recommend for a brand new shooter is setting the trap on strideway post 3. Stand on the 16 yard line, shoot some straight. Even I, I wouldn't move up all you can move to the trap house. But it does make it harder actually because that target's flashing out of there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I would do that or what I do with some shooters that are brand new is it at my club here in Lincoln Traffic ski. I'll take them over the skeet filled, stand on low sevens.

[A]

That's what I was just gonna say.

[B]

And shoot a little bit. But literally just you know, make sure they're enjoying it. They're not getting a bunch of recoil and getting smacked. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was saying. The fit, making sure that good they're keeping their head down because a few punches to the melon and next thing you know they wake up in the morning, they don't like trap.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I really, I really think at the beginning the most important thing that someone can do to become hooked in trap shooting is build confidence and have fun. So if you're building confidence and having fun, I think that's a precursor to a long term trap shooting career.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I would recommend making it easier to break the target. I love the idea that Ricky said with going to Station 7 for a new shooter. I go to Station 7 Skeet and I'll have them shoot that close one and I'll teach them, I'll teach them. I'll say, okay, once you line up this gun and it lines up with your eyes and everything's perfect and we get it there. All I want you to do is look at the target at 6 o' clock and when you feel like your eyes on the bird, shoot the target and that starts teaching them how to look and react instead of aiming the beads. Because a lot of the times these new shooters want to aim the beads and it already starts off with a bad habit. Right. So it's showing them to, it's teaching them to focus their energy on staying on the gun and looking at the target and delivering that first straight shot. Once they've got, got that under their belt, then 16 yard straightaways and then after that that's when I start to integrate the angles, you know, at some level. And, and sometimes it's not like hard angles on one and five, it's just angles on three. Like a little bit of a left or a little bit of a right on three.

[B]

I would Personally, this just my opinion, I'd let him shoot around with just the, the straightaways. And if, if they're hitting them, throw that baby on angles, throw it up.

[A]

Flip it on also. And that's, and that's true. I mean, it just, just, it depends the level of the shooter and how quick they pick it up. If I could see that they're not getting it, then I'm not going to add the next step of flavor. If they're, if they're getting it and they're like, if they just hit 20 out of 25 on the straightaways, I'm like, yeah, throw that thing on oscillate and you know, let them teach me one day, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't care.

[C]

But yeah, another, another suggestion. And this is just, you know, when I first took, you know, Leticia out and had her shoot, I did not throw a super handicap or a white rhino in that gun. You know, I put a 1 ounce shell in there. I kept everything light and easy, you know, because you want, you, you got. Sometimes if they're not a shooter, you need to get the gun fear piece out. If they, you know, they got a little anxiety about just holding the gun and shooting. So get that out of the way and then start letting them focus on the target. She, of course, hit her first target out and she's been smoking. That's another story for another slinker.

[B]

Smoke show.

[A]

Smoke show.

[C]

B at the man. Thank you for the question. We appreciate it. Hope you're.

[A]

I appreciate it being a one question, not a two question. So thank you, Ed, for that free discount question and I appreciate that.

[B]

Come up and introduce yourself. If I don't know who you already are at the shoot in Craig. Off the Craig. In, in New Jersey.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. Oh, right. That's the shoot he's definitely talking about, right, Rick?

[B]

Yep. Okay, guys. All right, folks, we need to take a quick second and get to a new show sponsor, Big Red Motorsports. Big Red, they're personal friends of mine, Jason and George Lee, and they're also a personal sponsor of mine.

[A]

Now, I'll say this, Ricky looked great driving around in that side by side. I got some free rides down at Tucson, the Autumn Grand. I think it's awesome that they deliver all across the country. And obviously they love trap shooters, they love trap shooting and they're doing a great job.

[B]

Listen, they got Can Am, Kawasaki cf, Moto Triton trailers. Hit them up. We'll take care of you guys with.

[A]

That Being said, let's get to the show.

[C]

All right, we're gonna. We're gonna keep it moving here. Next question coming in from David Jackson, it says, rick, I love trap talk. What are your thoughts on. What are your thoughts on mounting the gun to the face? Isn't the cheek bone eye relationship a constant? I think maybe. Does it need to be a constant? Right. So we're talking about mounting of the gun, you know, bringing up to the face. So David's wondering kind of, you know, what are your thoughts around that?

[B]

I. I mean, it. It should be right underneath the eye every time. It shouldn't be off to the side. And then lean your head. Never, never mount the gun and do this if you're. If you're looking. So I always say if you're looking like this. What I tell people when they do that, especially kids, when they're sitting like this, they're shooting, and I try to explain it to them, and they're like, well, no, I'm like, do you drive? Yeah. And I'm like, well, you don't drive down the road like this.

[C]

Do you are just listening and can't see. Rick, he's basically showing his head. Tilting off the side. Instead of keeping your head straight, eyes because level, parallel.

[B]

Okay. You watch what you want to try. But when you mount the gun, you want to bring the comb or the stock right underneath your eye and mount it in. That's your best bet.

[C]

And that's sitting right under your cheekbone, too, huh, Rick?

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's what.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So. So can we expand on David's question here just a little bit?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

How. How about when you see some people, which I think with you, Rick, your head kind of stays where it's at, and you really do bring the, I think into it. And then press your head down a.

[B]

Little bit and then that. Yep, just mount it in and then put my head down a little.

[C]

Press down after that so it kind of hits your shoulder, gets you into the pocket. And then you get the head down, obviously straight onto it.

[B]

Lock it in.

[C]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Zach kind of. Zach brings his in and. And kind of pulls it and then.

[C]

Slides it through his face a little bit, right? Yeah. Zach, it looks like for you, not as much head movement. You just get the gun kind of up into the cheek.

[A]

I try. I mean, and this is. And I'm still on getting amount that I want right now. Because at the end of the day, if you're not the best in the World, there's room for improvement. Right. So when I go the look at the game and you say, okay, you have to be humble enough to say I'm not the best in the world. What could I be doing to make it better? And what I've been trying to work on is less head movement because I used to be really bad at dropping it and really getting that head down aggressively and looking through the tops of my eyes. Last couple years. Years. These last couple years, I've gotten better at bringing the gun up more to my face so that I'm not necessarily, you know, doing this Right. And in doing that, things have gotten better. Now are there are consistent little intricacies that I'm trying to work on and figure out and still move forward as far as with stock fit and as far as with how I want to do it. Absolutely. But you know, if you. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result. So if I, if I am in a position where I am not happy with the total quality of my game, then I think people have to take a self analysis and they have to say, what could I do differently or better?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I've made some, several changes over the last five years that I've said I need to change this and maybe I go backwards, but then I go forwards. And so it's not always the same. And now once you're. Ricky, I mean, I feel like he's pretty stable in his game. You know, he's. He's got. He's figured it out over 30 years and said, okay, this is what I want to do and this is how I want to do it. You know, not a lot of change there.

[B]

Except for stocks.

[A]

Yeah, except for stocks. But this was, this was one of the first times that I got to see Ricky actually go through change. Now, now let's, let's look at this, people. Here's a guy, top of the world, has some changes, affects him in a negative way, goes back and rebuilds it, gets back to where he needs to be winning again. So it's not his ability to figure it back out from a different stage is what makes him Ricky. Right. You have to be able to say, I'm going to lose weight, my eyes are going to change, my reflexes are going to change, my gun is going to change, my. Whatever is going to change. Can I rise to the occasion? Do I have the talent, ability, time, dedication and drive to figure out this equation? Because just because you shot a really good year in 2023. That doesn't mean 2024 and 2025 are going to be good years. Every single year, you have to work on it. And if you don't do those things that make it work and you're not focused, your game can slip. You can go. I seen people go from 99 and a half averages down to 96 averages in one year because they made some major changes and they were not good changes. And they were, you know, I've seen people go from the, the tops of the game to, you know, basically not even on this, you know, on the winner's board in a 12 month cycle. So it really, it happens. And most of the time it's physical when that happens, right. Flinching or something like that happens, but body issues, it does happen, you know, or they get a new gun and they're not used to it, and then they lose their confidence or, or, you know, something along those lines. We've seen a lot of greats fall to that type of thing. And the, the true greats always recover. They always, they always figure it back out again where the, the, you know, the, the I say the hot in the pan, flash in the pan people, you know, maybe they were good in this little window or this little area or this little timeline, but then moving forward, they're gone, right? They're not, they're not able to get back into the game and rebuild it and tool it and, you know, all those other things. And so. Well, that's what I'd say.

[B]

And to elaborate a little bit, what Zach was talking about, the changes I had, it was, you know, we chose a healthier lifestyle. I still fall off the wagon every now and then, you know, because I like sweet stuff, but nothing like, Nothing.

[A]

Like some Taco Bell, right?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

You know, or a nice cannoli.

[B]

A nice cannoli. You know. You know, who doesn't like a cannoli? Hella's Bakery in Florida. Yeah, we good.

[A]

We like to eat.

[B]

Yeah. But the one thing I will say is, you know, with my weight loss, I mean, you know, I think I'm down around £80 right now, and, and my wife's down too. And we chose to do that. I knew that possibly when I started this, that it was going to affect my shooting. And I, and I had to come with the realization, with myself, to say, okay, what happens if I don't shoot? Like I can or have. What's that gonna do? And I, I always say this, you know, if you're asking someone an opinion, you Know, you care about that person. If you don't care about what they're gonna tell you, then you don't ask their opinion. And I had some people like, oh, it's not gonna affect this. I had that. But it's like my wife and I talked about it. I said, well, here's the deal. If I don't break 100 straights ever again, will I be happy? No, but I'll be healthier and I'll be able to live long enough to hopefully see, you know, possibly some grandkids.

[A]

You know, I'd say, yeah, you know, season 10, a trap talk would be like a viable option. Now we were, we were having buy sell agreements and key man insurance for season five before.

[B]

So now, now we're, now we're feeling.

[A]

A little bit better about the situation.

[B]

It goes back to this summer, this last year, past Summer, excuse me, 2024. I was shooting really good, even though I was losing weight, didn't change any stocks. I shot Ohio State. Shoot. Shot very well, was runner up in the overall, lost by one target. I go the next week to Nebraska State. Shoot. And I can't. I'm struggling. And I went down to winnig. And Bobby's like, how are you shooting this? And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, I broke a couple 99s in Ohio. So I got some tipping point, right?

[C]

There's a tipping point where it actually starts to it.

[B]

Yeah. And I was past that by a mile. But I was too, you know, proud to. To change it. And so I got that done. And then we struggle with it and then boom. And then I had to make a few more little changes as I kept losing weight. But I. That's what I would recommend to people because I've had several people that have come up to me and, and said, hey, we really appreciate what you're doing, you know, and they've. I've caused them to. To lose some weight. I had a gentleman come up to me at the spring grand that he had lost more than I'm down. And he said, it's because of you. And, And I was like, wow.

[A]

And that.

[B]

That was cool because listen, when. When Zach started this whole deal, it was a kind of a shot in the dark. And then he drugged me in. And then, you know, we got John drug into this. Zach didn't want to do that, by the way, as we've talked about before. But, you know, the psychology behind that.

[A]

By the way, is I wanted John the whole time. I just didn't Want to have to pay for him, which I didn't.

[B]

So it worked perfectly. Here we go.

[C]

Because I'm very expensive. I'm very expensive. So, yeah, it worked out.

[B]

In all seriousness, though, it's. It's great to see that we'll be able to change people and. And bring more people out of shooting retirement back in. And. And, you know, it's just a great sport, but it is boiled down to, number one thing, gun fit.

[C]

Yeah, we. We always talk about it, how important the gun fit is, you know, and to Zach's point, and I'll just echo this because I, I, you know, we were all together through the summer, and we were seeing the changes. We were seeing you grip the gun, and, and, you know, you were. Everything was still going great, but at some point, when people start to. Their body starts to change enough, you just get to a point where you can't massage it, right. You can't kind of hold it, can't.

[A]

Finesse it, and you can't work it.

[C]

Out, make it work.

[A]

And. And here's the other thing. He's Ricky Marshall. He.

[B]

He.

[A]

He knows how good he is. So his body didn't know, and his gun didn't know that didn't fit because his brain said that he was gonna hit targets, okay? And then at some point in time, at some point in time when it stopped working, the confidence went away, and the mere man started bleeding. So you have to understand that, you know, once. Once you take. Once you take that Nebraska stuff that I seen, I said, oh, he's here. Human. It's like predator. When they seen the blood, the alien blood, he's like, I can kill this. I can kill this thing, right?

[B]

So it bleeds.

[A]

You know, you get that man with confidence, and he's rough, but if you get him down, you know, where he don't know what's going on, that's where you can take advantage of him a little bit. Okay. But it doesn't seem like he's having any problem anymore. So, yeah, I've been trying.

[C]

Good.

[B]

As your last shot, folks.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

There you go. There you go. Yeah.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

So we. We talk a lot about the.

[B]

The.

[C]

The gun fit, for sure. And obviously, the gun fit feeds into the mount. Right. Which is, you know, kind of Dave David's question here, which is proper mounting mechanics. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think the takeaway here is that the gun. Once the gun's fitting, you. You do have to work on that mount. It's not a quick thing. It can take a long period of time.

[B]

I would.

[A]

I would say the more you can, the less movements you could have. Like. Like one of the most beautiful gun mounts that I ever seen in my whole life was Banias. And. And watch. I watched Banias, and I also watched Heller. And if you watch these guys mount a gun, if you watch them, you know, they had flat rib guns that. With pretty straight line stocks that were able to come into the pocket of their body, and they would just go boom. And it would just hit the face. Boom. And they're right there. And they never went down, they never went up. They never moved their face. They just brought that gun up perfectly level, and everything was where it needed to be, and then they pivoted and moved. And I mean, even if you watch Dagon mount, he is really upright and he's bringing the gun and doing this. He's not like, you know, all this crap. Right.

[C]

I think does have a lot of movement in that mount to get it into that top.

[A]

There's a lot of movement in the mountain.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But he ends up with the same result. Right? The same result is his eyes are level breaking. The same result is winning. Yeah, he's got the gun upright.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, I think if a guy. If you could say, okay, I'm gonna build the perfect shooter in a. In a little, you know, petri dish, if they could mount the gun and get it in that spot with the least amount of movements and be comfortable and actually stay locked in left to right, I think that would be ideal. And here's the deal. Better.

[B]

And. And the one thing when I was younger that I did a lot of was gun mounts. And I would do it especially in a hotel room. You know, I'd get the gun out, you know, no shells in it, folks, but, you know, not even a snap cap. I didn't. I'm not into the dry firing technique. I would just in front of the mirror, I'd mount, and I would mount. Yeah, it's every time. That's why when I. I do that, I. I get in the gun and it's all just muscle memory. Rick, what's that?

[C]

What's the mirror part, though? Rick, what's the mirror?

[B]

So you can see. So you can.

[C]

Yeah. What are you looking for?

[B]

I'm making sure my eyes are straight. I can see everything.

[C]

Are you checking for that? Okay.

[B]

I've always shot since 1989. I've shot an unsingle since 19.

[C]

So the canting is a. Is a thing because of that?

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

You can.

[B]

Can a gun, you know, Absolutely. And that's what, you know, all my stuff went away, you know, with when I went to Winnick. I mean, literally. I think my consistency got a lot better when I went to win a custom gun stocks.

[C]

Yeah. Win or shoot winning.

[A]

That's a shameless plug.

[C]

Yeah. So you. You lock the stock in. You're. You're doing the mounts in the mirror. So you're catching the fact that heads level, gun straight, and then you start to build that. That pocket, and you get to feel the mechanics of mounting well.

[B]

And when I went to Winnick, you know, the first stock they made me, it had toe out, and I was like, what's this? I've always shot a straight stock, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And that. And that's, you know, a shout out to my good buddy Mike Jackson and Brady Bennett, who I. I shoot a little bit with.

[A]

And actually Jackson right there.

[B]

Yeah. What they say is winners shoot winnings, and so does Mike and Brady. That's what they say. That was. So I threw that in there for you boys.

[A]

They got both. They got. They shoot them too. All the winners and them too.

[B]

That's what they said. I said, I'm gonna say it. They said, no, you won't.

[C]

That's good. Speaking of. Of toe out. Right. How much do you have in there now? Because the. The body changed a little bit. The stock, I think, changed a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. So what they did with mine, they took my old stock, and they were like, okay. And I was like. And so they took a. Ran a pattern off of my old one, and they took the pad and actually moved the recoil pad into me about a half of a recoil pad, and then filled all that in with Bondo.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then cut off the other side. So it was more into me now because everything here is less me.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, Right.

[B]

And I was like, this ain't gonna work.

[C]

That's the same thing that I was dealing with is the gun was too far out. Yeah. So in the back, that cast off is not as dramatic maybe as it was before in the new.

[B]

No, it is. It is. It's just at a different. And now it's more into me. So. Because it really. The first time I mounted it, I was like, man, that kind of. And Bobby's like, you know, it's gonna. I was like, yeah, I know it's gonna feel different. But when I go down to winig. Folks, folks, you know, listen. I let them fit the stock to me. I always tell them, you're the gun fitter, I'm the Shooter and they've done pretty well. So.

[A]

Okay. I'd say so, yeah. I'd say.

[C]

Well, I. It feels like. Did you. Did you get the latest pattern stock finished now? Did you give it back to them to finish it, or are you still shooting the pattern?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. All right. All right.

[A]

Pattern. Pattern for life.

[B]

So I'm leaving. I'm gonna be leaving and heading to Indiana to do some lessons, and I'm gonna try to stop on the way home and, and drop it off if I can. If not, I'll get down there here in the next couple weeks.

[C]

Okay. All right, well, thanks for that, guys. And David, thank you for that obviously good conversation around that mounting of the gun. Only second to gun fit, right? Once it fits and once you're mounting it right, fight. The rest is on you breaking those birds. So, David, we really appreciate the question, guys. Thank you for those really in depth answers. Really appreciate that.

[A]

All right, Trap doc listeners, we got to take a real quick break. And I've got something that I'm so excited to announce. Trap Shooting USA has now become the official magazine of the Trap talk podcast.

[B]

No, it's not only Traption usa, now it's Wing and Clay Life, Lady Outdoor Lifestyles and Clay Shooting usa.

[A]

I'm just really excited because they make such a high quality magazine. I mean, if you guys haven't had these magazines and you actually get to touch them in your hands, they've got really thick paper, they're really glossy, and they keep it really cool. I mean, I just love it.

[B]

The Traveling Gunsmith. And then in this newest episode, we have.

[A]

Oh, man, look at, look at those. Look at those handsome guys. I love this. I love it. I love it. So also on top of that, Outdoor pursuits, media mass not, he's decided that he's going to give away a shotgun at the Grand American this year at our live podcast studio. If you weren't there last year, you missed out. You need to be there this year. It's going to be great. The only thing you have to do is either renew or subscribe to any one of these magazines and you're going to be in for the drawing for the gun. And we're going to have all that information in the future. Just look out for it and we'll keep you updated for sure.

[B]

With that, let's get back to the show.

[C]

All right, guys, we're gonna keep it moving here. Next question coming in from Chris. Chris Schwab. Chris writes in and says, hey, guys, my name is Chris and I am from Nebraska And I shoot locally around the area. Here I have a longtime friend and co shooter that swears by his 34 inch barrel for singles and handicap and won't even consider if the gun has a 32 inch barrel. My question is, what are the downfalls of shooting a 32 versus a 34? The reason I ask is because I'm considering purchasing a used BT100 and it has a 32 inch barrel for a spare gun just in case mine or my son's gun malfunctions and we need a spare fast. Thank you for your time. And break them all. Christopher Schwab. All right, guys, he's asking, well, should he get the backup gun? It only has a three Sparrow.

[B]

I would say a longer sight plane is always better. And a 32, if you're used to shooting a 34, going to a 32 is just even a backup gun. It is not going to be a good backup gun because it's not going.

[C]

To throw them off.

[B]

It's going to throw you off with gun movement, moving to the target and such. So I would maybe pause on the 32 and look at getting a 34, you know, and then.

[C]

Because Rick can help you with any gun that you're looking for.

[B]

I'll help you. I'll get you even if I can't get them. I'll get you with the right people that'll get them and you'll, you'll get a deal on it.

[C]

Yeah. And also. Huh, huh. Guys, wait. Maybe Wade is a little bit different too.

[B]

Yeah, we don't know what's his, what's his main gun issue? You know, is it another, you know.

[C]

He didn't say, unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I would say a backup gun. In my mind, for it to be a backup gun, it needs to be matching. So like for me and Rick, we have the same receivers back up so that we can use our same gun. We just drop the barrels in the receiver, put the stock on and go out. And in my mind, that's a true backup gun. Like when they have NASCAR and they have a sex, an extra car, right. It's, it's, it's the same, it's not different. So like if you're shooting, you know, a BT, a Parazi and then you have a BT 99 as a backup gun, I would say that that's more of a gun for people that you're introducing to the sport.

[B]

Sport.

[A]

So if you want to say, okay, we're going to have this gun so that I can bring out my friends and my Family, and it's a good deal, and I'm not expecting to shoot great scores with it.

[B]

It.

[A]

Well, then I really don't see a big reason why the 32 wouldn't be okay if the. If it's for that purpose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just newer people shooting younger people, kids, you know, women. You know, that barrel might be a little bit better to swing around. But if you're personally saying, yeah, I'm going to use this and when my gun goes down, I'm going to transition right into it, I would say you want to have things as similar as possible, if not the same. I mean, 32 inch barrel, have the similar weight, have the similar lock time, have the similar poundage of the triggers, have a similar point of impact. I mean, it has similar stock settings. I mean, all of those things would make sense to me if you're trying to be super competitive. Now, if that's not the case, and by the way, I would. I grew up with people at the trap club where they did a different gun every single week because they just loved. Oh, tonight I'm using the 870. Tonight I'm using the 1100. That's a shout out out to Bill Groves in California. I mean, he had. He shot. His thing was, if once he broke 100 with the gun, he'd go to the next gun and I'd say, I don't think that's a good idea. I said, I think once you break the 100, you're supposed to keep. You're supposed to keep breaking the hundreds. You know, Bob Graves. I mean, it. It's one of those things where you don't have to change it. Just when it's working right. Like, and there's so many people that just love to tinker with it. They love to just this gun, this barrel, this thing. I mean, I'm sure the gun manufacturers absolutely love it. But at the end of the day, you know, at the end of the day, like, if you want to really get consistent, I mean, the old saying that I was always told is be afraid of the man with one gun. And when you see that guy with one gun, that's Joe Charnigo with that over, under, change nothing. Nothing. He don't change nothing. Right. He just. He just shoots it, and he shoots it for everything. And so when you get a guy that gets comfortable with the gun that he's shooting and knows where it's shooting and doesn't change anything.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Sometimes. I mean, I'm not gonna change. I'm. I Don't got enough, you know, a braveness to change from the combo system. But sometimes I look at that and I say maybe there's something too. You know, there's something to just having more and more consistency. You know, Richard Schrode did the same thing with his over under. I know Derek Klein does the same thing with his over under. I mean there's some guys out there that just said I'm gonna shoot this gun and I'm gonna always shoot this gun. Where you had, you had to bring.

[B]

Up the Richard Schrode.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I know how much pain. I know how much pain it brings you.

[B]

Richard's a super nice guy and a hell of a shot.

[A]

All I know is I seen him out there wrestling with you and he had a bucket of shell and he didn't even zip his vest. And I said this guy's. He's the only guy I know that had the vest completely unzipped. The shirt was hanging out and he'd go back to the.

[B]

That's because it was 110 degrees outside.

[A]

And he just grabbed, he'd grab the shells and the crimps were all messed up. No, there was.

[B]

They're reloads. I'm telling you. Listen to Z.

[A]

But no, let me tell her how.

[B]

I believe it is you really have. If you're gonna have a backup gun gun, have it be same or similar. If it's not, that's what I would.

[A]

Recommend if you can. Right. I mean, yeah.

[B]

If you're financially, if you can't, then what I would recommend is save up so that you can't.

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's different to have a spare gun than a backup gun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a completely different thing.

[C]

You're already going to have enough differences. Like you guys have even said you could put two K 80s next to each other there.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

You know. Right. So you're already going to have some built in differences. Why make it a true difference in the barrel? Right.

[A]

Even in our case where we have the receivers tuned, I mean in the triggers tuned, they're still different, you know.

[B]

They'Re still the same.

[A]

I mean. Yes. As close to the same as you can. I'm sure. I'm sure if you put it under a jeweler's mic, there might be ounces of difference between one and the other. Right.

[B]

You.

[A]

But what I'm.

[B]

You call man, I mean, I mean.

[A]

You'Ve got different engraving. You got different engraving patterns that affect the wind resistance of your gun right now.

[B]

Come on. Here we go. Wind resistant. Zach Nanini knows nothing about. It's like, it's like, like the dimples.

[A]

On the target we're talking about here. You know, it's different.

[C]

If it would have had the plantation scroll, I would have hit that hundred. I just would have. Exactly.

[A]

If he would stay in your 90 pounds and, and the different scroll and that thing would have been small smoke. That's all I'm gonna say. You'd have been, you'd have been, you know, the four time champion of the spring.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, folks, I'm just messing with them. But the reality is the more you can, the more you can be the same, I think the better off it's all gonna be and as close as possible and.

[C]

Yeah, what, what's the rush? Like Rick's saying, save up. Try to get as close as you can. Just, you know, save up. Well, listen, Chris, we appreciate eight the question all to all the listeners out there and the fans writing in. If you want to send your question in and make these guys answer them for you, ask [e-mail] and we'll get these guys on it. We've got a couple more questions in the hopper. We'll save those for next time. And guys, thank you very much for taking the time and answering the listeners questions today. We all really appreciate.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I appreciate it. I really appreciate when you guys stay away from the two first. And I really love the Zach directed question. So if you guys, if you guys, if you guys want to do two first from now on, John's gonna have a promo code. You've got to enter it into the email and then you're allowed. You're gonna add. It's gonna be, it's gonna be right over here. Two for two for ones. You gotta write two for one in there and then you gotta direct one of the questions to me. So that's. That's the deal.

[C]

Listen, I would appreciate two things. If you're gonna throw a two for at us, just be honest up front.

[B]

Front.

[C]

Guys, I got two questions for you. Don't slide it in at the end.

[A]

All right, that's dirty. That's dirty. That's just like when you get asked out to go to dinner and then they're like, well, who's paying? You know, it's like, oh, you mean, you mean I've gone.

[B]

There was Zach.

[A]

You mean I've been doing lobster and cocktails all night and this ain't free? Come on, man.

[C]

And listen, I'm not saying if your last name is easy to pronounce. You're definitely gonna make the episode, but it's not going to work against you.

[A]

We're having too much fun tonight. Let's get the heck out of here.

[C]

Yeah, folks, with that said, thank you again. Again. Send them in to ask us@traptalk podcast.com I'll get these two guys to answer them for you. And until next time, thank you, guys. We appreciate it. And we'll catch you next Friday. Thanks, everybody.

[B]

Guys. Peace.

[A]

Bye. Bye.

[C]

And the Trap Talk podcast is brought.

[A]

To you in part by RM Shooting Clinics. Have Ricky take your game to the next level. You want to shoot hundreds of hundreds of hundreds, give Ricky a call today. Zach Nanini Financial. We believe in putting people first.