← Trap Talk From The Back Fence
Trap Talk From The Back Fence
Trap Talk Ep. 161 | Jacque Snellenberger on Mindset, Longevity & Loving the Sport
01:12:08
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- [00:24]
A
Welcome to season four of Trap Talk.
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B
Brought to you by Craigoff, the Choice of Champions.
- [00:29]
A
Hello, TRAP Talk listeners. I'm your host, Zach Nini. I'm here with my co Host, Richard Marshall Jr. We just felt like podcasting and. Who was in the neighborhood? Jackie Snellenberger. So thank you for, for jumping on the show with us. And a lot of people message in and ask and, and she's one of the most famous, if not the most famous female that we've had on the show. So, so thank you for, for giving us your time, Jackie.
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C
You're welcome.
- [00:55]
B
Yeah.
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A
Rick, could you, could you introduce her for, for the woman that probably doesn't need much introduction.
- [01:00]
B
Yeah, she really doesn't need an introduction, but I, I'll give it a try. And thanks to my wife Jody. She reached out to Jackie. We were trying to. Zach was supposed to. Then of course he drops the ball. He fumbled, but no, Jody took care of it and, and got a hold of her and we're all good. So, so listen, Jackie is from Coldwater, Michigan. She's been shooting since 1985, which is a long time. That's way before Zach was born. But in the first six years or so shooting, you didn't get to shoot doubles. You didn't start shooting doubles till 1991.
- [01:36]
C
Correct.
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B
And that was because of her. Her late father, George, he just would not pay for her double shooting.
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C
You know, hey, when you have, when you have mom and dad both shooting in the family, it's expensive.
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B
Oh, yeah, I know how that is. But she started shooting in 91, and every year since 1991, she's been on the All American team. So maybe George was right by making her wait a little bit, you know, so we'll give him some credit for that. But she's been on the. So that'd be about 34 times, 35 times on the All America team. Right around 30 plus times on the Michigan State team. And we'll talk about some, some reasoning for that, for not being every year, but that's, you know, certain requirements and such. But she does have over around 20 ish 2 hundreds and singles. She's got 2 hundreds in doubles, which both of them were shot at the grand, which is awesome. That's the place to do it if you're going to break anywhere. You know, she's lacking on that 100 in handicap. She, she needs it to get her grand slam.
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C
I do.
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B
She could possibly get that done this year because all her major wins, our handicap wins.
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C
I know, right?
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B
Yeah.
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C
I mean, Exactly. And most people would consider me a handicap shooter if they had to put me in one category.
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B
Yeah, exactly. So 2001, the Vandalia Handicap at the old Grand American in Vandalia. She was the champion with a 98 back then, which. 2001, I'm gonna say there was probably three 35 to 4,000 entries probably in those events back then.
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C
Back then, yeah.
- [03:14]
B
Yeah. So, I mean, that's a. That's a big win.
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C
And in the shoot off.
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B
Yeah, exactly. How many. How many was there in the shoot off?
- [03:23]
C
I don't know how many there were. I know it only took me one round. And Dickie Baldwin. I was shooting. I was shooting Fiocchi at the time. And Dickie Baldwin, who was great for being a historian and documenting things, and he came up to me and he said, I watched this shell fall from your gun as the last tar target. And then he presented it to me.
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B
That's awesome.
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C
You know, Dicky. So.
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B
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now his. What's his book? The Road. Was it the Road to Yesterday? Is that the name of. It was Baldwin's book, I think. Yeah. And I've got a couple copies of it, which is awesome. You know, talks about the history and everything of shooting and such. But she won the northeast grand in 1997, which, if anybody's been up and shot the Northeast Grand. It's a very tough place to shoot. I love shooting up there. I've been up there a few times. I think three different times to the Northeast and the Empire. Great place to shoot. But she won an O2, the Michigan Handicap Championship. Now, that's your only state title, correct?
- [04:25]
C
Yes. For the men's category.
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B
For the men's so. Well, not men's. Well, it used to be called men's back, but it's open category.
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C
Yeah. Okay, let's go with that.
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B
I know that's what they. They've changed it all.
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A
So.
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B
But back in 2003, and this I'm going to say, even though she won the vandalia handicap in 01. So for all you listeners out there that shoot in the Midwest and are in the Central zone, back in 03, she won the ATA Central Zone Singles Championship. Back in the day, I'll say. Two years ago. Yeah. This was back when Bob Munson was in his prime and. And literally was Mr. 200 and I, if we could pull the records on every Central Zone Bob shot from probably 90s to 2010, he probably broke a 200 in every one of them known, Bob. You know, so for Jackie to win that. And now did you win that in the shoot off?
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C
I take it I did. And it's one of those that. Because it's a satellite and, you know, everybody's doing their own thing. I don't remember what got documented because I don't remember how many it actually took, but I know I went. I missed in the 10th box, so I was 225 straight on top of that. And I missed in the other box, but it didn't take all of that. So. Okay, I don't remember what I documented.
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B
You were basically just banking targets.
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C
Yeah, that's all I was doing.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. I've been. I've never really banked targets in the singles. I always went out, you know. Oh, no. So you quit. But the doubles one year I did. I banked like 140 and it took 20.
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C
Yeah, exactly.
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B
Yeah. And I remember my dad was like, well, you didn't need to shoot all them. I was like, yeah, you know, I'm just going through the motions.
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C
Yes.
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B
So.
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C
And you don't know how long it takes, you know, sunlight, all the fatigue, all the stuff.
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B
So. Well, in all your zones, you're shooting against people in Canada, and sometimes they're late on getting stuff in and, you know, and such. So you just. You had to do what you had to do to get the best sunlight available on the target. So she won that in 03. She was inducted to the Michigan hall of fame in 2006, which is a huge honor. And then in 2015, myself, yourself, Bradford, were all inducted to the Trap Shooting hall of Fame. I always say the ATA hall of.
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C
Fame, but I do too.
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B
Yeah, the Trap Shooting hall of Fame. So that was a huge honor. And. And I got a listener or accolades then, and. And there's a lot of them. We'll talk about that. But she has shot over 429,000 combined registered targets. Not a bad gig, considering Jackie only gets to shoot in the summertime because she's a schoolteacher.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So welcome to the show.
- [07:14]
A
Yeah, I mean, that was a heck of an introduction, Rick. I mean, you know, we interview, introduce people all the time. And, you know, I can't remember the last one where we went that long and that deep. So there's a lot. There's just a lot there. There's a lot there. And. And she's definitely a lifelong trap shooter who's one of, you know, one of us, I would say, in the fact that, you know, there's some people that get into this game and they're lifelong. They don't, they don't ever get away from it. They don't ever leave it. It's a part of their lives. It's a part of their families. It's a part of, you know, their passion and their. Their, their mission statement. So, you know, I know you come from a family of trap shooters, but I'd like to know Jackie, like, what was that like growing up with, you know, trap shooting? Famous, right? I mean, all time greats in the household. Like, like, you know, I can't imagine that. I mean, maybe, you know, Tyler is experiencing that at some level with Ricky right now. But you know, you had it at both levels. Both parents shot very competitively, very good. So. So, you know, walk us through how you got started and like, you know, how long were you around the game of trap and kind of saying, I want to be in it for you.
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C
Remember that mom and dad were both trap shooters. Mom and dad were both trap shooters. They met on June 24, 1967 at the Maryland State Shoot and they married six days later at the Canadian championships.
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B
George was quick.
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C
Yeah, it was quick. He had some good stuff because of that, you know, like a lot of families go softball, you know, camping, whatever. Like Ricky, you just go to trap shoots on the weekend. And I'm sure Trey and the other, they had to deal with the same thing. Of, well, of course you're going to be good because look who your dad is. That's the natural assumption from everybody else. What they don't factor in, and I don't know about Ricky, but what they don't factor in is how it feels to be taught by your parent. That's a whole nother avenue because it's not a, hey, I look up to this person and they're gonna teach me. Or I go purposely to seek out somebody's advice and they teach me. This is a. Your mom and dad are telling you this is what you need to do. This is like one more thing on top of the homework, on top of the cleaning up your room. You need to do this too. So it adds another layer. And then of course, for myself, it was a big difference between dad being male and Jackie being female. There's a huge difference. And it's one of the things that. I don't know. I guess it gives me a unique perspective because I do. I get a lot of different perspectives. Being a female in a male shooting world, I know it's not that way as much anymore, but it certainly was that way when I started. There wasn't as many women.
- [10:11]
B
Yeah. And in your case, Jackie, women tend to listen a little better than we do as men. I mean, that's. That's a given. You know, we're very literal. Yeah, exactly. And you know, my wife Jody's a past all American shooter.
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C
Yeah.
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B
She understood more. And so Trey never wanted to shoot really. Because of, I think, who I was where Tyler. Because Trey is just like me. He couldn't handle the people saying stuff. And where Tyler's just like, whatever, I'm just gonna do it and I don't care. And then. But teaching. Yeah. I struggle with Tyler, like I would like. And I finally, one day, Jody's like, it's your delivery. And I said, I got a delivery, all right.
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C
Exactly.
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B
But she said, oh, let me. Let me talk to him. So I would, like, tell Jody certain things that she already didn't know, which she knew a lot anyways.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And then finally one day he just said to me, he said, dad, I got it figured out. I said, what's that? He said, you're my coach, not my dad. He said, if I put it in that perspective, then I absorb it. But if I put it in the. It's just my dad over here.
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C
Exactly.
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B
So in George is like my dad.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Where it's like one way. There's no. It don't matter if you're wrong or not.
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C
Exactly.
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B
That old stuff.
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C
You can't argue with an ATA hall of Famer who's telling you to do something you. You just can't.
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B
No.
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C
And it doesn't matter if he's your dad. I can't. I can't tell you how many conversations we would have. And I would try to explain to him what I was seeing or what I was feeling or. I mean, and it went from because I'm a one eyed shooter. I went years before he even realized I was a one eyed shooter. And then the amount of effort I had to put into trying not to be and going through all of the things or the time I told my dad, well, I just pulled the trigger when I didn't want to. He did not understand that whatsoever.
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A
How the hell do you do that?
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C
He was exactly. He did not get it. Now, he missed targets, but it wasn't because he didn't pull the trigger when he wanted to. It was because he misread something. He didn't judge it right. Whatever. It wasn't until he got to his 50s and then he came to me and he said, remember that time you told me, I know what you're talking about now, he didn't understand it. He just did not get it.
- [12:36]
B
It's that old. It's the old mentality. And you can ask a lot of these old time shooters that are still around and you know, people now are getting into this mental side of stuff and I'll be honest, there is some, you know, it is all mental but if you, I think on some of it you elaborate too much.
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C
Yes.
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B
And what's it do? Screws it up. It's in your head and that's where. And, and the, the people nowadays are wired a little different than the guys, you know, because how old was your dad? How old would he be today, Jackie?
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C
He'd be 89.
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B
Nine? Yeah, yeah. He's about 10 years older than my dad. But that cut a cloth from back then, they wired a whole different way.
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C
Absolutely.
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A
I think with what Rick said physically about the too much information overload. I mean we talk about some shooters on this podcast that really have a lot of information, a little, a lot of details and, and to break it down as easy as you can, if you have your computer open and you have 15 different web browsers on, nothing works fast. Right. You have to be singularly focused at this game. And if you're going to think a lot, you need to do that on the practice trap or before a tournament. Not, you know, not during because nobody can psycho hyper analyze every little thing that's going on in a tournament and expect to shoot well. But by that time you have to be shooting with what you've got. And I know you're both very pure shooters and I'm sure that. Did that come natural to you, Jackie, or were you more of the thinker and then you went to the natural or were you always more natural?
- [14:15]
C
No, I'm not natural whatsoever. It is what it is and it's one of those things, male versus female brain. I mean it is a thing and there's nothing that showcases this more. A couple of different things. But one thing in particular when I started writing for Trap Shooting USA and I was very data driven so I would ask, I had this column and it was called Ask the All Americans and then I would put together these charts, I mean like pie charts and stuff and what they were thinking and it was very clear they all had a very similar way of thinking. Like most of them all shot very high shooting guns, you know, again or when I went to the gym and you know, I'm trying to build muscle, trying to keep in shape and I would see a kid, you know, 16 year old kid and I'd been working in the gym for months and I'd live so much and within a month he could surpass. Female and male are not the same. And I would also talk to, you know, you talk to the, you know, when you become a good shooter, those are your friends. So you have all the conversations and whatnot and what goes on in your head. What goes on in my head are the 30 tabs open at all times. Well, and you talked to Harlan, you talked to Leo and it was like, what do you mean? You have things going on? No, you just shut it down. It's your turn to shoot. Nope, I had to learn how to shut it down. And it's one of the reasons I'm a big proponent of. And I know a lot of kids like you were talking about today have a whole different routine for the whole time they are in shooting, from the time they drop the shell out of their gun to the next time. No, no, no, no, no, no. The only thing you need to focus on is when you start to mount that gun. That's your routine. Because there's so many other things that can happen, as Ricky and I were talking earlier, that get into your head before that that you can't control. So don't worry about that. Don't worry about what's going on in the next trap. Don't worry about what happened before or after. The only thing you can control is the time you start to lift that gun. And with all my brain tabs open, I can sometimes most of the time sequence that. And that is my shot routine. Which is where it's one of the reasons why it's also very quick. I don't take a lot of time.
- [16:44]
B
Yes. And that, and that's, you know, Frank Hoppy, when he taught me, he said, I don't care what you do.
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C
Exactly.
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B
His videos out there. And I think I'd have to. We could pull a clip of it. I don't know if he says it in his video now that the family released it and it's on YouTube, which. It's an awesome video even though it's, you know, from the 80s, but it's still pretty cool. You know, there's a part in there, Frank shooting from the hip and people are like, oh yeah, he didn't do that. No, he really did. He. Those guys could shoot from the hip back then, you know, but that's all.
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C
They had to do. They had no video games either.
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B
No, exactly. Yeah. But he always said by the time you Lift your gun as you're bringing it up, that's when you need to be prepared. And that's why I always say I use a catchphrase. And I start to say it as I'm mounting the gun because then I'm ready. Boom.
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C
Exactly.
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B
Everything else is out. So, well, talking about that because. So real quick, you're a school teacher. So what got you? What made you want to be a.
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C
So it's not all that glamorous in my household. I didn't know this for the longest time, but neither one of my parents had graduated college. I didn't really realize that mom was a personnel manager at a UAW plant. I guess I never realized that at that time you didn't have to have a college degree, but most did. But because of her work ethic and what she did, she did the job and did it well. Dad worked in the meat industry. I didn't realize it, but it was an expectation. So I had to go to college. There was no if, ands, or buts about it. And when you're a junior senior in college, you take those, you know, little surveys and what would you be good at? And, you know, it was business and, and education. And my mom was like, well, you're too sweet for business. You couldn't handle it, you know, so go be a teacher. Kids like you. So I started out, and lucky for me, it worked out well. And I enjoy kids. And I got my master's degree from UConn University of Connecticut, which is actually how I became friends with so many of my east coast friends, because there was a period of five years when I was working on my masters that I would go out in the summertime and I'd shoot Maryland and Connecticut and Maine and whatever, New York. And then I'd go to school for a couple of weeks, three weeks, and then I'd come back and I did another state shoot. So that was fun. But my teaching for the first 30 years, the rules were I got two vacation days per year. That's it. And you could not take a day off before after holiday. So that meant even though the Great Lakes grand was in my backyard, an hour away, I never could go to the whole Great Lakes Grand. I. I couldn't. The one year I took two personal days off without pay to try to go to the Missouri Fall handicap.
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A
Okay.
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C
They prorated my insurance and then took money out of my check. So I never did that again.
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B
What the hell.
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C
Yeah. So for the first 30 plus years, I have only to go from depending on what school year? It was June 15th to the end of August issue or right now it's June 1st to August 10th. Right after the grand I go back.
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B
Right.
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C
You have to return and I have to do all of those points in.
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B
That time and so what. What grade are you teaching?
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C
Fifth grade. 10 and 11 year olds. All 35 years. Which makes me a unicorn because you know, that age. Exactly.
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B
Can you imagine what Zach was at 10 or 11?
- [20:17]
C
I can. My own special kind of crazy.
- [20:20]
A
You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now is a bunch of gold and silver from Ron Prescott at Midstate precious metal. Show them the goods.
- [20:27]
B
Listen, all I got silver right now. I won't bring the gold out for.
- [20:30]
A
Zach but you know I always want to get that.
- [20:32]
B
Gold shotgun shells, 10 ounces bars. Folks, he could do anything for you. For all your shoot needs, give Ron Prescott a call. Midstate precious metals dot com.
- [20:42]
A
He's a great guy. Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports trap talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron Prescott at Midstate precious metals. Thank you, Ron.
- [20:51]
B
That's right. Thanks for all the support.
- [20:53]
A
You know Rick, when you're riding around your air conditioning and your nice can am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself where do I get one of these things?
- [20:59]
B
At Big red motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason Lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.
- [21:05]
A
I mean I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean my face is on the back, but help me out.
- [21:12]
B
Listen, I'm going to move your face to the bumper is where it's going to get moved for the new one. Okay? All you need is a little quiche and we can take care of you. But listen, Big RedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and George Lee and big red motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery. Hey Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?
- [21:32]
A
You know I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chukar down there, but now they got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day. Absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.
- [21:47]
B
Well, I'll have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot.
- [21:49]
A
Some sporty clays, then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it if you haven't. Guys, check them out. I wouldn't have been there. I would have been freaking going and trying to make some money selling something on the corner. I mean, who knows? That just wasn't my vibe back then, but, you know, I took to it. But, you know, Jackie, I. I love that you've centered your life around shooting. And it sounds like you've scheduled, like, okay, I know I need to get it in between, you know, June 15th and the end of August or whatever that was. Like you. You spent time purposefully saying, I can do this. I can make the All American team, but I'm going to have to do it in a condensed amount of time. And. And that. That requires some planning. And I guess one thing I would like to know is being as all your shooting was very condensed, did you find that there was a secret sauce about how many weeks in between the shoots? Like, would you go one week on, one week off? Or was it ever. You went back to back to back, and it got a little bit too, too much? Like, what was that like?
- [22:44]
C
So you don't have a choice. That's the problem. I have eight weeks to make seven shoots.
- [22:51]
B
Yeah.
- [22:52]
C
And for the people out there that think, oh, my gosh, I'd love to go shoot that much, it'd be great, think how good I'd get. Yes. But also, don't forget how tired you'd get. Don't forget how after the second week, you're still having a blast, but the third week starts to drag because now the tendonitis that used to be able to recover from or whatever the bills are, the mowing, the lawn, the laundry, all the little things of life that you have to also accumulate and do now is a problem. And that fourth week, that fifth week, that sixth week, it's, etc. You think of how many people at the grand don't want to do preliminary week and Grand Week at the same time because it's so much. And your body mentally can't handle it. I don't have a choice. Even this year now, I've had a lot of people that I don't want to say, get down on me, but in one sense of the word, you disappoint them. I don't take it personally. I know Ricky doesn't either. You hear from everybody that has their own intention for you, and in their mind, they think you should be somewhere, you know, wherever that ranking is, whatever they think. And so this Year I came out as Lady 2 because I turned 55 last year. And they were like, oh, you're gonna dominate. I still only have seven to eight weeks to get it done. Yeah, they forget and they don't realize in reality that I actually had eight weeks, eight shoots. Well, they count the preliminary grand and the grand is two. To me it's still one, but they counted as two. So I had eight. Shoot. The people that beat me had 14 and 15.
- [24:38]
B
Like, yes.
- [24:39]
C
How do. There is no way in reality that you can come out shooting at perfection when you haven't shot. I haven't shot at all. Like, that's just. It takes time, it takes effort. It does take the muscle memory. And I think, Ricky, you were talking, trying to get to it earlier. When I was younger, in my 20s, I had to go shoot the winter leagues, I had to go shoot the Calcuttas because I didn't have the muscle memory. I had to seriously work at it. I wasn't one of those guys. And you all know them, I hate them. But that can just come out after six months or a year, like, oh, I haven't picked up a gun and. And they go out and they break a 98.
- [25:21]
B
Pat Lamont, just exactly.
- [25:24]
C
I can name a few. Just because that's just the way it goes. It's that natural talent. I could never do that. I actually have to be intentional with what I'm doing, what I'm thinking. And you add any health issues on top of that as we get older. And that's one thing I've struggled with throughout my life. You want to know all about that? That could be a whole nother episode. But it changes. And just like the saying that Ricky has that it changes too, based on what your needs are, what you're going through, etc. And so it's a big difference.
- [25:59]
B
Yeah, it. No one understands other than the shooters that. And. And ones that competed a real high level like yourself, you know, Zach and me and, and a ton of other people. But there's other stuff going on around you life that especially in your case, Jackie, and you're on the road. Excuse me. For those, you know, seven, eight straight weeks, you know, non stop, where, you know, I'm fortunate I get to come home too and such. But you know, I'm fortunate also that Tyler loves to shoot.
- [26:30]
C
Yeah.
- [26:30]
B
So he travels with me. You know, Jody flies in and out when she can or she'll get a travel. Thankfully, you know, her boss, she works remotely. Everybody's like, oh yeah, your wife gets to be there I'm like, yeah, yeah. But we get kicked out of the fifth wheel because she's in there working. So Tyler and I'll be hanging out other places, you know. But you do, life gets in the way, stuff happens and then you got to learn to control it while you're on the road.
- [26:53]
C
Yes.
- [26:54]
B
And in your case though, coming from shooting family, where like Zach said earlier, your mom and dad both competed at a really high level. I mean, that has the pressure on you. We talked about that a little bit, you know, and then being a school teacher, one now you've been there how many years you've been teaching? 35.
- [27:14]
C
35. This is my 35th year.
- [27:16]
B
So isn't it after 20 you can retire with the, you know, I mean, you're just, you're, you're no quit is what you're saying.
- [27:24]
C
I am actually going to retire at the end of this year. I was talking to Zach a little bit earlier and that's just because it's a financial decision. You know, when your finance guy says, look, for all intents and purposes, if you don't retire, you're basically going to be working for the difference of $15,000 take home pay. Isn't there something you can do for $15,000 and not work all year? I'm like, oh, maybe there is.
- [27:51]
B
So you got to enjoy life too. And you've been able to do that. But we always talk about it, you know, and you know, it's trap talk, so we're always talking about shooting or something related to it. But you know, my wife always says, and I'm very fortunate, as you know, Jody. A long time, Jackie. I mean, I wouldn't be able to do this if it wasn't without the support of her.
- [28:12]
C
Absolutely.
- [28:13]
B
But she's always like, can we go do something that is not shooting related? And you got to, you do, you know, so, you know, we're fortunate. Now Tyler's off to college. We go and do stuff every weekend we've been gone, just out doing stuff. And it's kind of nice, you know, it is fun.
- [28:31]
C
It refills your empty tank.
- [28:34]
B
Yes.
- [28:35]
A
You have to, you have to take some time for yourself in anything, especially as a high level competitor. I think there's too many people that don't recharge the batteries. And I think I definitely feel for you, Jackie, because you said you've got eight weeks and you don't, you don't have eight weeks spread out all over the year. You have eight weeks condensed and you don't have A choice for how you feel. You know, you, you have to go whether the pain, whether the, whatever, you know, the bills. And you know, and when you talked about earlier, I just circling back, you talked about other people's expectations of you. I mean, I almost put that in. I'm not going to say they're haters, but it's unsupportive at the very least. Right. Because whatever makes you happy and whatever is your goal is probably enough. And, and people, you know, I hate when people say, oh, you know, you should be here, you should be there, you should be doing this, or you could be this good if you did this. Well, they don't know what else you got going on in your life. They don't know all the other layers of, of, of the, of the lasagna, you know, so, and that, that takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing.
- [29:40]
C
We'll say I learned that lesson early in life. So there is that. When I first started writing for Trap, Trap and Field, I had this column and, and like I said, a lot of times I would write, you know, ask the all Americans, but basically Trappen Field said, hey, you can write about whatever you want. And so there was, I would write about like if I was going to switch over to a new gun, I would write about my experience, et cetera. And I had people that would come up to me and start spouting what I had said word for word. Like you said X, Y and Z and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, what? How do you know this? Like, they really thought they knew me based on what they had read what I had said. And so they felt that it gave them a certain power. Yeah, it really did. It was like a certain power over me that they had the privilege to be able to talk to me or to do other things. Like, I can't tell you being a female the amount of things that I've had to go through. And again, I always assume positive intent. And that's one of the things, Ricky, when you grow up with the 80 to 90 year old men. Yeah, they don't mean they don't. They seriously don't mean to be rough or rude or to squash my dreams. They really just, they want the positive. They really do believe, well, Jackie, you can be number one. You, you can do this or you're so good, you can do that. You can. And they feel bad when I don't achieve that. But they also, in order to, well.
- [31:19]
B
In order to achieve it, don't mean to Interrupt you. But in order to achieve it, you got to sacrifice to do that. And that's one of the things that people don't understand that, you know, they think it's easy to get to the top. I mean, sometimes it can be easy. It's hard to stay there. But there's so many sacrifices. And I know you. And now being a school teacher, you had to go back, but all those sacrifices you had to do was from June to August, and it would be family events, whatever it might be.
- [31:49]
C
Friends, all the events. Yeah, yeah.
- [31:53]
B
That's where they.
- [31:54]
C
I was married, raising two kids at the same time. Been there, done that. It's hard.
- [31:59]
B
No, it is. And that's where, you know, like I always say, and. And Zach's starting to understand this now. You know, he's traveling a lot and stuff. There. There's so many sacrifices out there that it's great to be an all American. It's great to be number one. But when you really sit down and at it, there's kind of like, okay, what, what, at what cost did it take to do this?
- [32:24]
C
And I've always said that the people that really like you will give you credit for more than you've ever achieved.
- [32:31]
B
Yes.
- [32:32]
C
People that don't like you will never give you credit for what you actually did do. And I've learned that the only people that your stats mean anything to are you and maybe your significant other, your parents, etc. But even then, the odds of them remembering the years. Yeah, they just remember you did really cool stuff and they're proud of you.
- [32:57]
A
Yeah.
- [32:57]
C
Yeah, that's exactly it. They don't. And just like other people, they don't understand. They don't realize all the family, friends, the things that you don't get to do that people stop asking you to do because they know, you know. Now I am lucky. I do dancing. I do west coast swing dancing in the winter time. So, Zach, as we were talking about filling up your emotional bank account or, you know, filling that need that's mine. It's fun. It is competition, but not at the level I'm here and I get asked all the time. Well, you don't look nervous. I'm not. This is. This isn't real competition for me. I understand it is for some, but this. This dancing is not my competition. This is just for fun, and so I treat it as such, but I don't.
- [33:45]
A
It's just a release in that area, dancing, probably a release for you. And in with what we do, you know, there's people. I'm sure that, you know, maybe they're brain surgeons and that's their, you know, that's their day where they go in and do brain surgery and that's everything and that's the pressure on. And when they come to a trap shoot, you know, maybe they're not all Americans, but maybe that's their release. Right? And for you that is, you know, that's that dancing. Because you, you know, you can't. I, I'm sure you're very competitive. I know Ricky's competitive and I'm pretty competitive myself. And you just can't try to win at every single thing, every single thing you do. You can't like try to push that envelope. There's got to be some area where you just, you know, have a little fun and you're okay with not being the best ever because you know, every once in a while you gotta let some steam off. I'm sure. I mean it's not, it's not easy to hold yourself to that level of accountability in every aspect of life.
- [34:40]
C
Well, even going into trap shooting, to me the biggest deal is to set realistic goals. Perfect example. If I've got eye problems, which I do again this year, I've got some floaters coming back even though I had it taken care of. And as a one eyed shooter, if you have floaters in your eye, I can tell you what, I don't care how good you are, how focused you are, but if you only have one eye to see through and you have some dot that is moving and you have spent your entire life training your eye to go to the movement, things are probably not going to work out so well for you.
- [35:14]
B
No.
- [35:15]
C
So again, the whole point is realistic goals. And that is like if you are that doctor and you're coming, don't expect to be the All American unless you are willing to sacrifice as what we were talking about earlier. If you don't have that natural ability like I didn't in the beginning, are you going to go to all of those meat shoots at, you know, in the wintertime? Are you going to go to the practice traps? Are you going to do all of that or are you going to be content to break that 80, 90, 95, whatever that your goal should be for you, which is realistic. And if you set the goals realistically, then trap shooting, any other sport can be a phenomenal release and a competitive enjoyment of any kind.
- [36:04]
B
So talking about your goals, Jackie, do you, so are you setting like I do, short term, long term and even the, the, I always say the Bucket list goals, you know, which you know is like your. Your Grand Slam. Yeah, yeah, well, Grand Slam. Yeah.
- [36:21]
C
Grand Slam and a ring have been on my bucket list forever.
- [36:25]
A
Hey, Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw Engineering and the Preston family for supporting trap shooting and supporting Trap Talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.
- [36:36]
B
Yeah, I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and the family, they're great supporter of the show. Coop just won the autumn grand handicap championship with a 97.
- [36:46]
A
I know, I was there. I got to interview him.
- [36:48]
B
It was great.
- [36:48]
A
I was so proud of him. He's doing a great job.
- [36:51]
B
Where's Coupe?
- [36:51]
A
He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun.
- [36:54]
B
So that's.
- [36:55]
A
You need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you.
- [36:59]
B
Great folks. Thanks for all the support. Outlaw.
- [37:01]
A
You know, Rick, I. I know you've had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started. But I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping. You know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system is.
- [37:13]
B
It'S the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in double from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph. You can see it on video.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you talk about that J hook with Sean, Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop. And I think that's really powerful if you're doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. They love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great product.
- [37:37]
B
Take aim technologies.
- [37:38]
A
You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind and knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens. I can get my winig and my Craig off replaced quickly and easily without costing me a bunch of money.
- [37:47]
B
Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance, it's the best out there to ensure your guns. Sure. Your trophy, animals, everything.
- [37:54]
A
Thank you to the whole Cushman family for supporting the show and everything they do for trap shooting.
- [37:58]
B
Absolutely. Get a hold of Cole Cushman and he'll get you set up. Hey, Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?
- [38:04]
A
You know, I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they Got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.
- [38:19]
B
Well, I'll have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot.
- [38:21]
A
Some sporty clays then 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport. Come see it. If you haven't, guys, check them out.
- [38:27]
C
Yeah, I do have short term and longer term goals. It does depend on where I'm at physically. The last 10 years, I've been dealing with eye issues.
- [38:39]
B
And what brought those on? Was that just the floaters? Is that what you're talking about?
- [38:44]
C
No. So originally. So I have an autoimmune deficiency disease I've been dealing with since I've been in my 20s. Because of that, I have to go on and off. Prednisone, which anybody who knows about prednisone is a nasty steroid. And one of the side effects of prednisone is that it can create issues with your eye and you can get. I'll think of it in a minute. I had it done. Cataracts.
- [39:12]
B
Oh, okay.
- [39:13]
C
It'll develop cataracts. So the first time I had a cataract, the only reason I noticed it was because I was at my state shoot. Well, back up the year before that, I was on a high dosage of prednisone, My vision started blurring. That's one of those major things they say, call your doctor immediately. I called my doctor. He said, nope, you need to stop it immediately. I'm like, wait, you're not supposed to stop prednisone immediately. You can shut down your adrenal glands. He says, nope, this is an emergency. I said, okay. So anyway, a year later, which is the time frame, I now have a cataract. Cataract in the right eye, of course. So basically what my cataract cataract looked like was it turned a very sharp orange target into a blurry orange fuzzball. Right. I can still see was just blurry, like there was no edges. Now here was the trick. In my situation, if I opened up both eyes, my vision was fine. I only noticed it because when I closed my left eye and I was only focusing on what I needed to for that detail. So when I went to the specialist, he said, look, he said, I'm really good. He said, 99% success rate. But I'm gonna give you some advice. My advice is that if you get surgery of any kind, make sure that if you have the worst case Scenario coming out, it's still worth the risk. And I thought about that long and hard when it came to my eyes. And with both eyes open, I could see fine. And so I'm pretty determined, in case you didn't know that about me, Ricky. And so I decided I can learn to shoot a fuzzy orange bow. I can do it. And again, over the next five years, my scores were okay. Not what I would expect, but they were okay. And so I continued until I had floaters. And then I struggled with that for a year. And that was just a mess. Just because as we were talking about my. I only have those eight weeks. And as it progressively got worse, as I'm starting, you know, the wheels start to fall off. And you can try to train yourself. You can train yourself using different colors on sites, different eye looks, different eye holds. I did go down. I normally shoot a gun that is used to be 20 inches high now.
- [41:39]
B
Remember that?
- [41:39]
C
Yeah. But now it's back down to, I would say, 60, 40.
- [41:45]
B
Okay.
- [41:46]
C
Just because the eye. I can't. I don't have that ability anymore with my eyes. So I got it done, got it fixed. Didn't realize there was such a thing. Is basically an oil change for your eye. Got it done. I've walked many top shooters through the process again, so I'm glad I could help out. But now that I had it done and I had another cataract on top of it, when they fixed that, they stirred up all of the junk in your eyeball because basically that's what floaters are, is the deterioration of the linings and stuff that are in your eye and eye trauma. So you think your football players, anything that has head injuries, you have a lot of that. Had it taken care of. But now, since then, I'm starting to notice some back. So basically my shooting season this year will depend on how well it goes.
- [42:43]
B
So.
- [42:43]
C
And we'll see how bad it gets.
- [42:45]
B
Are you thinking about now can they go in and. And remove the floaters, though?
- [42:50]
C
I thought they can do another one. Yes. I thought they could only do one victrectomy. So again, it's like an oil change. They go in, they at the same pressure so your eyeball doesn't explode. But the same pressure. Out goes the old fluid, in goes the new, and with that fluid goes all of your float and they can do a second one. But again, it's like anything else you're dealing with. If it goes wrong. Are you okay having just one eye? Because when you're dealing with your retinas, Every surgery is a risk. And so for me, it just has to get bad enough to affect my daily life. That has been my rule in my life. If it affects my daily life. And my floaters did get that bad the first time. And that was when anytime I looked at light would become super bad. Like I get migraines. If you look at my shooting glasses now. Thank you, Doc Rively. They are polarized lenses, which means they are dark. As dark brown as you can get. Yeah, that took a whole nother. So those eight we eight shoots I had, the first two were just getting used to shooting in that dark, almost pitch black light. It's a whole nother thing.
- [44:10]
B
So is there. So your specialist. So can they only do like two oil changes ever, basically for your.
- [44:17]
C
I don't know the answer to that. I don't know.
- [44:19]
B
We just had. We just had Cooper Freston on Randy Freston's son Coop, that just won the Autumn Grand Handicap. And Coop is actually, you know, he's got it. He's colorblind. Red, green, colorblind. But then he's also has an eye injury. He was shot in the eye. And so he kind of. You put your finger like this and that's his vision. So. And he's got a hole in his eye because the BB was stuck at the back of his eye by the retina. So now he's got floaters and a lot of it. It's the blood and floaters moving around.
- [44:52]
C
Yes.
- [44:53]
B
And, you know, I've got a friend, Dr. Max Linder from Lincoln, Nebraska, that's retired now, but I asked Max to do something with my eyes one time. And he goes, nope. He goes, it's got to, like you said, it's got to affect your daily life majorly. Because in your. What you do and what you use them for could be bad, you know.
- [45:13]
C
And that's just it. There's always a risk. So you have to. You have to balance that with. Okay, it's getting so bad now that I can't go to the movies. I can't go have friends. I can't go have dinner with my friends because when I'm sitting there and the light comes in, it's driving me nuts and I'm giving headaches. And like Pat McCarthy went through it afterwards. So I know his is doing supposedly much better, hopefully still continuing. And I don't know how many they can go because again, I'm assuming you hear me say, assume your eyebrow. It's surgery. And anytime you do trauma to your Eyeball. Those are very delicate issues and especially with your friend Coop. Like maybe because of the other trauma, they don't want to put anything pressurized.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah. And he's only just turned 16 years old, so he's actually shoot with his left eye. So. But in your case there's no. I mean you're just, you're winging it one eyed. So. So let's get to your. How you're shooting. Are you, are you shooting like Zach and I down on the house?
- [46:18]
C
Yes. As a one eyed shooter, are you.
- [46:21]
B
Below the house or are you level?
- [46:23]
C
So as a one eyed shooter, I've practiced and played with as I think you all do as well. You play with depending on what's going on, the weather conditions, the look of the house. Hey, where do I need to see this the most clear so that I can do what I do? However your pattern, however your movement is wherever you want to release that trigger. For me, it's almost always on the lip of the house. Usually again, depending on where that trap is set in the house. So if we're talking Ohio.
- [46:59]
B
Yeah.
- [46:59]
C
Where the targets, you've got bigger houses. Then I'm definitely in further because I need to see that target come out. If I don't see that target come out, I make bad movements, I jerk. I. Oh my gosh, there it went. And there goes my gun trying to follow it, which is never good. So I always take a look at where it's at, where it's coming at in regards to the house.
- [47:24]
B
Okay.
- [47:25]
C
And then I fudge it. So like if I'm on one and two, I want to fudge it to the left. If I'm on 4 and 5, I fudge it to the right to give me that little extra whatever it is. We were talking earlier, I used to shoot a gun that was 20 inches high. Again that I came up through. Because when I was doing Ask the all Americans, that's what they all did. And I'm like, people who are that good in, in an area don't do it for no reason. Right. There's a reason. It's not like, oh, this one guy does it or these two guys do it when most everybody does it. Now there's a reason. It's giving them some advantage of some sort.
- [48:02]
B
Some sort.
- [48:02]
C
Unless they're messing with you. Which. Yeah.
- [48:05]
B
Well, I always used to say there was only two guys I knew that could shoot a real high point impact gun. And that was Harlan and Ray Stafford.
- [48:13]
A
Right?
- [48:13]
B
Yeah.
- [48:14]
A
And I've heard that too. And I guess the thing that I'd be curious about is, you know, we're, we're, you know, we're not trap shooting usa. We're not trapping field. We're not asking the all Americans in that way that you did. But, but we are interviewing people, you know, all the time on the show. We're 160 plus episodes in. So we've listened to a lot of trap shooters. And I would tell you, the common theme that I'm hearing now is more of a 70, 30 to 90, 10 gun kind of setup situation that's more commonly heard. And I guess I wonder if, you know, if targets were generally a lot higher back then. I mean, in general, if the, if that was the set or if, if, you know, there was just a group of people that had a little bit the reflexes or the lock time or the technology of the guns was, hey, we're going to just shoot a little bit of a higher point. Because I don't feel like I'm hearing as much. High point of impact, high point of impact, high point of impact. I'm hearing more. You know, I want to shoot a gun that shoots where I'm looking.
- [49:12]
C
Yes, and I agree with that. But again, I would agree with all of that. Like the technology, the targets were a little bit, I don't want to say harder back then, but they were faster. Yeah, they were faster.
- [49:25]
B
So again, hey, don't sugarcoat a jacket. They were harder.
- [49:28]
C
You want, you wanted the movement and your target was always going up.
- [49:32]
B
So.
- [49:32]
C
So therefore, the advantage they were looking for was, hey, if I shoot this, the target's always going up. I'm gonna break it. That was advantageous at that time period with my eyesight and my eye vision, I could no longer handle that. Just like when I first started going into trying to shoot a high gun. You can't go from 60, 40 to 120%. It just doesn't work that way. You need to do baby steps because you've got so much muscle memory that you have to get out of your body, your vision, your. All of those things that, that take it up. So again, it was a process. But now I would say I'm at, I say I'm at 70, 30, 60, 40. I just patterned my gun. When I say I just patterned my gun, I don't know what shoot. I was at that I had a question in my head. Wisconsin. That's where it was.
- [50:17]
B
Okay, Back in July, Wisconsin.
- [50:18]
C
And that was. Yeah, 70, 30, 80, 20. Because again, eyesight, I need to be able to just Touch the bottom.
- [50:25]
B
Okay. Now, what gun are you shooting right now?
- [50:27]
C
DT11 combo set.
- [50:29]
B
Okay.
- [50:30]
C
Yep. It's the bottom one.
- [50:33]
B
Bottom one?
- [50:33]
C
Yeah, yeah, the bottom one. Yeah.
- [50:36]
B
I like the old Budweiser hat there in the background. For other people that don't know that the Bud. The Bud handicaps. If you won an event back in the day, they gave you those for winning the Budweiser. I remember them.
- [50:47]
C
And that was one that dad won. He actually got the big two thousand dollar check I donated to the hall of fame. But I did keep the hat.
- [50:54]
B
Did you? I kept.
- [50:55]
C
I did keep the hat. That's the hat from dad? Yeah.
- [50:59]
B
That's awesome.
- [51:00]
C
Yep. So as far as the rest, you know, I was spoiled. Dad didn't spoil me monetarily. Like he didn't pay for my doubles. Dang it.
- [51:09]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [51:11]
C
I did have a gun that fit from the very first time. I started with parts from an 1100. I had a wood putty stock. You know, the pistol grip was wood puttied because I have small hands. And to this day, I will say that all of my guns don't have checkering, which is really weird.
- [51:30]
B
No, I don't. Well, my. My trap guns don't. Yeah.
- [51:35]
C
It hurts my hands.
- [51:36]
B
Does it Mine. I just like that feeling with no checkering. When I got my winning stock with my Katie back in, oh, five, I think it was so 20 years, I. And still to this day, the only stocks. Only guns that I shoot that have checkering are my sporting gun and the forearms. Checkered. That's it. You know, so it's a whole. Whole different feel. But yeah. George, I remember watching your dad at shoots with you years ago, where you'd be down there and he'd be fiddling with the stock and getting it fitted and stuff and. But, you know, he knew what he was doing.
- [52:11]
C
He did. And again, you have someone that you ra. He raised me to be independent. Right. Except he would tell me all the time, I only wanted you to be independent when I want you to be independent like dad. It doesn't work that way.
- [52:24]
A
You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot, and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played if the event's paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with. With the app?
- [52:39]
B
Listen, sos Clay's app. It's the best thing out there, folks. You can see everything. It's great. You see your option payouts, you can see when you're up, you can see see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but.
- [52:51]
A
It'S I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg, get a hold of him. He'll set you up, he'll get you running. Right. And if you pay the the premium once a year, you get free pre squatting in all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoe.
- [53:05]
B
Absolutely. Sosclays.com.
- [53:06]
A
You know Ricky, I know you use it on your barrels, but do you even know what RGS stands for?
- [53:10]
B
No, Zach, what does it stand for?
- [53:12]
A
Really good.
- [53:13]
B
Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels and it does make them shine.
- [53:19]
A
Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy. So I got to be better at that. But it gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.
- [53:27]
B
That's right. Give RGS a try. We appreciate all the support.
- [53:30]
A
You know, Rick, when you're walking down the line, you see smoke ball after smoke ball after smoke ball. What, what are you thinking in your head?
- [53:35]
B
I'm thinking there's some good set targets and they got to be a white flyer.
- [53:39]
A
They got to be white flyer. I mean, we were just at Nevada State. Shoot, we were shooting these things for the 27 yard line. They look like 16 yard smoke balls. And I'm like, only a white flyer can smoke like that. And we love them. And they've been supporting the show since day one.
- [53:51]
B
That's right. Thanks for all the support, white flyer.
- [53:53]
A
Rick, I really think that Gunfit is probably the most important part of shooting big scores. Would you agree with that?
- [53:58]
B
Absolutely. I think gunfit is the most important thing.
- [54:01]
A
I mean, most of the top all Americans are shooting custom stocks. I know when I got my custom stock, my scores went up. I broke a hunter shrift and the 27 within seven days. I mean, I'm sure your experience has been similar.
- [54:12]
B
Yeah, I've been shooting a custom gun stock for 20 years, winig. If you want to win championships, get a win of gun stock.
- [54:18]
A
Yeah, call Bobby, call Luke. I mean we got the stock whisperer over there, Bill. Give them a shot. They're great and they know what they're doing.
- [54:24]
B
Absolutely. Winig.com check them out because as you.
- [54:29]
C
Go through, you know what you like, what you don't like. What works for you, what doesn't work? But I've always had a gun that fit. Always.
- [54:36]
B
Yeah.
- [54:37]
C
And so you know, as a female where it's not my interest to go around looking at other guns, it's, it's hard. Every time I pick up a gun I go, oh, it's too long. The pistol fit doesn't work. The, you know, all the things that are wrong with it. That's not fun for me. That's not fun for me because I've always been spoiled in that manner.
- [54:57]
B
Yeah.
- [54:58]
C
So.
- [54:59]
A
Well, yeah, that's great that you had someone that helped you that's great that you had someone that helped you all the way through. And you know, Jackie and your dad obviously a pro, a legend in the game and you know, and now you're so educated and done it so long, you know, everything that you want, the way it needs to be. And I think, you know, the resounding message there is if you're going to be a top level shooter, you better know how you want your gun to fit or what you're looking for or how it's going to move or the weight of it. I mean that's a really, really important thing that I think most people don't understand and they, they don't know what they want. And I, and I think that that can create, you know, long term problems for sure.
- [55:40]
C
Absolutely. Not only do they not know what they want, they also, when they get there, let's say they get something that works and then they want to stay tried to it even though other things have changed. No, you have to figure out if something has changed or if you are no longer breaking targets. You can't tell me, oh well, I just need to do more practice. No, there's something that changed. You have to figure out what, whether it be eyes, body, you're putting it one, one quarter inch over, whether the gun needs to move over, whether you need to be up, you can't stay locked in. That fixed mindset of this is the only way it's going to work because it's not. And I know Ricky knows you change, you change what you want.
- [56:26]
B
I'm going through it now with, with weight loss and guns.
- [56:29]
C
Exactly.
- [56:30]
B
And you know, the whole, I mean everything's changed. I mean I just got off the phone with a, a student of mine and a client, you know, from the Northeast, Kevin, he called me, he said, you know, I listened to your deal losing weight. He goes, I said, I'm doing it. Well, he had just got an accustomed stock made by winig. And now he's lost 50 pounds and he's like, I can't hit anything. So we're gonna change some stuff. We're gonna, you know, move his butt plate over into him a little bit because you know, let's be honest, it's tough for people to, to get one stock made and then go spend another 10,000, get another mate. So it's like there's some things we can try to see if it'll work and help for the, the time being. But there's. I always say this, there's always a sacrifice. There is everything you do, no matter what, there's going to be good and bad in it. You just gotta, you know, roll with the punches.
- [57:22]
C
And dad always said that the gun is still a tool. It doesn't matter if it's a pretty tool. Yeah, but it's still a tool. And if you just have a pretty tool and you don't know how to use it, it doesn't do you any good. It doesn't matter.
- [57:37]
B
Exactly.
- [57:38]
A
It doesn't break any more targets. It needs to work, it needs to fit, it needs to feel right to you and your body. And I guess, Jackie, you know, one thing I do want to ask you because you've got so much perspective, you know, you had your dad, you know, obviously you 400,000 plus targets, you know, what are, what's some good advice that you would give to. I mean I'm not even going to say females, I'm going to say anybody, anybody in shooting. Like what is any shooter out there, you know, at this level, what's the advice that you would give and say, hey, this is the one or two things that I would really recommend you do. If you want to be better.
- [58:09]
C
Figure out what it is that you can give up or sacrifice. What is it? How much time do you have? How much money do you have? Those are huge. Most people automatically assume. I don't know how they assume this because I'm just a teacher and I'm by myself. How I have all this money, I don't know. I always tell them, do you really think I would work for Trap Shooting usa? Although I love them dearly, but do you really think I would do an extra job at all of these shoots if I didn't have to? Like, do you understand how many times I'm out on the line and I think, oh my God, I didn't get a picture of Ricky, I didn't get a picture of Zach yet. Like, I am constantly thinking, you know, it's back to those fifty hundred tabs that I always have open, but I wouldn't do those. So you've got to figure out first, how much money do you have and how much time? And you also have to figure out what are you willing to put in. And then the setting goals part, because again, what is your goal with what you have? What do you want? Is it, hey, I just want to hang out with my buddies and have a good time? Okay, that is perfect. It can totally be that. You can go on Sundays. You can go to the state shoot. You can go to, like, let's say the Indiana and Ohio and Michigan State shoots. Keep it around home if that's your goal. Perfect. Is it just to break decent, respectable scores? Okay, well, what's decent and respectable? I can remember, right? I can remember when I was a kid and somebody. I said, oh, I broke in 96. And somebody said, oh, I'm so sorry, Jackie. And at that time, I was high, you know, I don't. But again, how it demolishes you when somebody says, oh, that's not good. Well, it is for me.
- [59:45]
B
Yeah.
- [59:46]
C
And I always ask, is that good for you? You know, because again. And I also remember the time I was taken to task when I was really little and my parents always broke really good scores and I didn't know any better at the time. And somebody say, oh, I broke a 98. And I'd be like, oh, I'm sorry. You know, I was the other person on the other end when I was a little kid. I'm like, no, I know better now, man.
- [60:07]
B
Yeah.
- [60:09]
A
Rough day with that 98. You a little better one of these days then you just walk off with your. With your little teddy bear or something that. That ruins somebody's life. I'm sure.
- [60:16]
C
I know, but all I knew is when my dad comes home with a 98, that was bad.
- [60:21]
A
He's pissed. He says, this ain't gonna cut it.
- [60:24]
B
Listen. And I just looked too, just to see. You know, your father, he shot over 528,000 registered targets. So you're about a hundred thousand less than. Than George. So you need to step up the game a little bit.
- [60:42]
C
I know, but here's. Here's the really cool thing about my dad, though. He did it on the weekends.
- [60:48]
B
I know. Yeah. Because he was a meat. He owned his own meat deal, right.
- [60:51]
C
Or he worked for a meatpacking company and he worked in Chicago. So he would come home on the weekends, and they didn't believe in vacations. So he got his state Shoot. And he got the grand week off and that was it. Everything else, thank goodness. And this is one of the reasons why I'm still a proponent of all around should be shot on the weekends for your weekend, for your working class people. Because he shot Saturday and Sunday and he could get in the championship. You know, the singles, handicap doubles and the all around. That's where he did most of all of his shooting. Oh, he, he compiled a lot of scores just based on that.
- [61:28]
B
Well, Yeah, I mean, 1958 or 56 is when shooting and it's amazing. And, and to grow up, like we talked about earlier, grow up in that family aspect of it. I mean, you know, my dad wasn't a shooter. He hunted, but he got me into it. And then of course with my boys and of course meeting Jody. How your mom and dad met. I met Jody at a shoot and, and such. And, and you know, now with Tyler kind of carrying the legacy on, I mean, he's, you know, going to Lindenwood now. He won a national championship there already. And, and you know, he won the world junior doubles championship. So, you know, he's got his own athlete, which is cool because he. It's funny you. You talk about that, living in the shadows as such. And you know, there's people like, well, your dad such. And he's like, oh, God, exactly.
- [62:19]
C
There we go again.
- [62:21]
A
Not again. I'm like, nobody wants to hear.
- [62:25]
B
Exactly. So it's like, hey, so in your deal and kind of, you know, wrapping this up, Jackie, I know you, you know, you got some advice and for the, the women stuff, but, and, and men too, because, you know, you've done things that most shooters haven't done in their life, you know, at all. But what advice would you give to some new, brand new shooters, just women, what to do, like, if they want to get involved, I mean, what. What would you give to them?
- [62:56]
C
Well, it all depends on what their intent is. So, like, I've done. I used to work with National Wildlife Turkey Federation, Women in the outdoors. And so some of their, the women's intent was just to be there for their husband or their kid, their son. Wanted to do this and whatever, just wanted to know more. So is it more of. I just want to get into it so I can just shoot with them. You know what I mean? Again, basic stance, basic, you know, just enough to know the basics and then that's good enough. Again, goes back to what is your goal? What do you want out of this? And other than that is just to have fun. This is a Sport, you're going to spend a lot of money.
- [63:34]
B
Yeah.
- [63:35]
C
You can't have fun, don't do it.
- [63:38]
B
Go do something else.
- [63:40]
A
What's the purpose of doing it if you can't have fun? Absolutely. I mean, that's, that's a resounding statement because, I mean, there's very, very few people that you can count if maybe one hand that actually make a living shooting a shotgun in this country, in trap shooting. And most of them are all doing it in other areas. I mean, there's other things. It's not just winning the events, it's, you know, teaching or it's running a business.
- [64:06]
B
I could tell you that.
- [64:07]
C
Exactly.
- [64:08]
A
You're not going to make no no good cash. You're gonna be living real bad under the bridge. Government cheese, that's just.
- [64:15]
B
Yeah. Hey, government cheese ain't bad, brother.
- [64:19]
A
They got the finest of cheeses.
- [64:20]
B
I'm telling you, it's one of those things. It's a great sport. Yeah, it's a great sport. And you know, I wish we could get a lot more women involved too. I teach a lot of them on the east coast. I do a lot of ladies clinics. And it's so funny is I teach them and then their husbands call me, like, I'm gonna have to do a lesson because my wife's beating me.
- [64:41]
C
Yeah.
- [64:41]
B
I'm like, good, you know?
- [64:44]
C
Yeah. But the men also have to realize because again, I've been teaching a few things and what I've learned over the years is the women always listen. The men think they listen, but they just think they know listen.
- [64:56]
B
I love teaching women if it's only women. And I'll, I'll do these lessons where there's like five of them, like just little half day deals. And I'll get four women and a guy and about in a, you know, a three, four hour deal and about two hours in, the guy's like, so you said. And the women are over there like exactly. Like they got it as soon as I said it.
- [65:17]
C
Right.
- [65:19]
B
Exactly.
- [65:21]
C
I will say that is I do get asked a lot about giving lessons or whatever and, and unless it's a high school where I donate my time and it's usually my deal is I'll go in and help the coaches coach because you know what, it's like, most people are like your dad, they were hunters. They just know about it and nobody else could pick it up. So I'll go in, I'll do my spiel, I'll do the thing, but I really want the coaches there. So I need them taking notes so that they can continue to help because I'm not going to be here. But other than that, I just do one hours just because as a teacher, I know that's the most effective, not saying there's not a place for clinics, because there is when you need a whole bunch of material or when you're trying to save money. Right? You want all the material, all the things at once. It's an easy place. But again, and I'm. I'm fussy because if you're not going to listen to what I have to say and you're going to have that attitude, I don't need to do well, you're not gonna. You're not gonna learn do this.
- [66:22]
B
So.
- [66:22]
C
No. And, and you're not gonna attach my name to it. So unfortunately, I may have a. A little reputation at certain places just because I've said, you know, you. Obviously you thought you wanted lessons from me, but maybe you don't, and that's okay. And that is perfectly okay. But again, if you seek out information, you actually have to do the thing.
- [66:46]
A
And I love that, Jackie, because there's so many people that seek the information, and they're like, oh, well, I heard that Ricky's doing it this way, and I heard that Jackie's doing it this way, and I heard they're doing this way. And I said, well, are you doing it that way now? And they said, well, no, I think this way is better. And I said, you know, what are you. If you're not willing to try and change something, then you better be satisfied with where you are. You have to be like, okay, yes, I'm okay with being where I am. I don't care what you do or how you do it, but don't complain to me about where you're at if you're not willing to change what you're doing.
- [67:20]
C
Exactly. And that's where I'm at. And I've been lucky enough, probably because I've. I have a teaching job, so I don't. Yeah, that's where I make my money. Although maybe now that I'm retired, maybe I'll change my attitude. I doubt it, but maybe you're too.
- [67:34]
B
Set in your ways. But you doing that, the, the lessons with. And, And I'm going to start doing some coaching stuff for coaches because it's the same deal. They're like, rick, we can't afford to bring you in, you know, twice a year, but we could afford to do one with all, like, a big, huge group of coaches. I said, absolutely. I said, I just like to see people shooting.
- [67:56]
C
Yes.
- [67:57]
B
And, yes, it is my job, but I love to see people go from here to here. So if. If the coaches, if I can get them set, like, and it doesn't. Like, I always tell them, you don't have to teach exactly this way, but you got to get in this area, you know, it's got to be comfortable for them. But you can't have them standing this way if they're shooting right hand, you know, and they're like, okay, because they don't know. But, yeah, it is. It's fun. But, yeah, I do know what you're meaning by. Yeah, sometimes you say something. I just, like, I got a rule. If I tell you three or four times and you don't listen, I'm just gonna not tell you anymore.
- [68:32]
C
Exactly.
- [68:32]
B
Just. I'll. I'll overpass you see you. And they're like, well, why don't you say anything? I did. I said it 42 times. You didn't listen.
- [68:40]
C
Exactly.
- [68:41]
B
And so.
- [68:41]
C
And that's just for me, because based on where I'm at and what. Where I shoot, you know, I don't have all the extra time, and I'm certainly not going to waste it on somebody that really doesn't want to hear from me. You know, they just want to say, oh, I had a lesson. That doesn't cut it for me. That doesn't cut it for me.
- [68:58]
A
Yeah, I get that. I get that completely. And your time is a very valuable resource. Jackie. I think you giving us your time today was a gift, and it was a gift to trap shooting. It was a gift to the listeners. There's so much that you have to provide, and I know we would love to, at some point in time. Two things. We would love to interview you about your father specifically, because he, you know, he's not here to tell his story, but you are. And then we would also probably love to have you on again after the retirement and hear, you know, your advancements, because I think the grand Slam's coming. We just got to be on the lookout for it. And, you know, hey, those. Those grand rings, they're still out there. I'm right there in the same boat with you. We. We need them grand rings. Okay, but. But before we get. Before we get out of here, is there anyone that you would like to thank? Any sponsors, any people before we wrap up today?
- [69:49]
C
I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
- [69:50]
B
Is there any sponsors or anybody you'd like to thank?
- [69:53]
C
So there's Always sponsors along. Beretta sponsored me for quite a few years, and I was lucky enough to be able to shoot and still shoot their guns. But as you know, powers to be, people come in, people go out. People are always looking for the new and the upcoming. And of course, you know, all your friends like Silent Ear and Frank Rively and, and Gooch, that gave me my gloves so I can now shoot in the rain instead of cutting out the fingers out of the old Walmart specials, he took pity on me. He's like, jack, I got, I got gloves for you.
- [70:26]
B
I got gloves.
- [70:27]
C
I'm like, hey, send them my way. You know, all the people that just help out, but no sponsors.
- [70:32]
A
That's okay. That's okay. Well, you know what?
- [70:34]
B
Appreciate you.
- [70:36]
A
Yeah, go ahead, Rick. I, I will just edit that part out because you were quiet that bam, it started going. So say you appreciate and then I'll go ahead. I have nothing to say.
- [70:45]
B
It's all right.
- [70:46]
A
I was just gonna say, you know.
- [70:47]
B
Let'S not edit that out.
- [70:49]
C
Are we gonna say I left them speechless?
- [70:51]
A
Yeah, Jackie's the only one that's ever left me speechless on the show.
- [70:56]
C
Yeah, let's go with that one.
- [70:59]
B
There you go. You heard it here first, folks.
- [71:02]
A
So, so Jackie, we, you know, we're gonna, you'll get a pen or something special. We'll take care of you. But, you know, we really appreciate you coming in today and sharing your story and, and we appreciate all our listeners tuning in this Friday. Like, share, subscribe, send in your questions, wear your Trap Talk gear proud. And you know, we'll see you all next Friday. And be on the lookout for Jackie on the. On the line. So. So thank you all, folks.
- [71:30]
B
Thanks, everyone. Good luck.
- [71:32]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [71:33]
B
Absolutely.
- [71:33]
A
Hey, folks, if you're wondering where you can get your merch, head on down to shop.taptalkpodcast.com yes, folks, you can get.
- [71:40]
B
Hats, T shirts, sweatshirts. They even have a ladies tank, shooters, towels. We might have some new stuff coming out for the 20, 26 year. Who knows?
- [71:49]
A
We got all the swag. Head on down to the website. Thank you so much for being Trap Talk supportive.
- [71:53]
B
Thanks, everyone.