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Trap Talk From The Back Fence
Trap Talk Ep. 173: Dr Zeke Yeager Grand American Doubles Championship WInner
01:11:34
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- [00:24]
A
Welcome to season four of Trap Talk
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B
brought to you by Craig off the choice of champions.
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A
Hey folks, if you're wondering where you can get your merch, head on down to shop Trap Talk podcast dot com.
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B
Yes folks, you can get hats, T shirts, sweatshirts. They even have a ladies tank, shooters, towels. We might have some new stuff coming out for the 2026 year. Who knows?
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A
We got all the swag. Head on down to the website. Thank you so much for being Trap Talk supportive.
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B
Thanks everyone.
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A
We've got a special show today. We've got Zeke Jager to join us and we're going to hear a little about his story. And if you wouldn't mind, Ricky, would you mind introducing Zeke?
- [00:58]
B
I guess I will. I won't mind. As usual, no. So we got Dr. Zach forgot that Dr. Zeke Jager, he has earned that title. So he's from Corinth, Mississippi. He's been shooting since 2004. He's a five time all American and those are categories. But he Also is the 2020 Grand American doubles champion. So he does have one of those. So that's an awesome deal. But he hails From Corinth, he's 31 years old. He's an eight time all state captain of the state team there. But he's been on there, he said about 15 plus times.
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C
So.
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B
And he has broke around 15 two hundreds and singles and about 4,001 hundreds in doubles and then 99 is his highest in handicap. He'll get that 100 here. But we'll, we'll talk about the doubles and we'll talk about his averages and stuff because his average is some years doubles was higher than singles. So we'll get that, that kind of scoop because you know, Zeke's known for his doubles so we'll, we'll get into that. But he did make the state team sub junior, junior and junior gold and of course open. So that's a pretty big feat because there's a lot of people that don't shoot that many years and then of course life hits you. And that's why he's a doctor. So we'll, we'll get into the show.
- [02:23]
A
Well, welcome Zeke. I know we've been talking about doing this for a while, so I appreciate you making time in your, your busy schedule. I know you got a lot going on for the folks that don't know you, you know, what is your business practice? Man, what kind of doctor are you?
- [02:37]
C
So my practice is chiropractic. I've enjoyed it for a long time. Kind of Getting it started here in Corinth, work for another practice here. Off and on a little bit kind of getting started. But my main practice is here in Corinth now.
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A
Okay, okay. And that's wonderful. How long did it take you to get educated, to go down that path? I mean, how many years are you invested in?
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C
Well, from high school It'd take about 10 years. Wow. Give or take.
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A
So that's a lot of mischief.
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C
Yep. I've spent a lot of grand nights after shoot offs having to study and that's not fun having to go out the next day early. So no, no, that's off the field and go take a test. Right. Quick online or, you know, get to somewhere that I can study for this one coming up on Monday or, you know, whatever, you know. But a lot of nights, late night studying up there. So well.
- [03:36]
A
And it just shows a lot of dedication and hard work and you find that there's a lot of that in the trap shooting community. A lot of people that actually want to do this sport and get serious about coming back to it, they have to put in a lot of effort and a lot of time when they're young just to build that ability. And you're definitely doing that. So, you know, we wish you good luck, but onto your shooting. How did you get started in the sport we love and kind of. What was your progression early on?
- [04:00]
B
What?
- [04:01]
C
Well, kindly the start to my shooting career started with my dad, of course. He had been. He'd been shooting since 1980 and I naturally fell into the sport. He's won quite a bit of world titles himself. He never did get a ring, but he got runner up third and a couple of other events. And I got started roughly. I started shooting about six to seven years old, shooting some practice out at the gun club. Started with old Harrison Richardson with a hammer on it. And our buddy killed on one end, crippled bad on the other.
- [04:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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C
And I shot 50 targets with it. It was a 20 gauge and tearing my head off. Didn't have recoil reducer in it or nothing. I looked at him, I said, is there any way we could shoot something that didn't quite kick so bad? He shot it a couple of times and it put a little blue mark right there under his face. He said, I think we need to move up something else. So I started off really shooting with 1100 and then I upgraded to a 3200 and I stayed with it ever since.
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B
I say that's the same gun that you've been shooting the whole time, isn't it?
- [05:14]
C
Well, I've made modifications to it and I've gotten different over different ones over the years. But mainly, yeah, it's the same gut parts to it. So.
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A
So that 3200, is that, is that just the over under or are you like some people where you have it modified and added a single barrel to it or. Or no.
- [05:32]
C
Well, I've got it. I've got two barrels actually modified one for handicap, one for singles. I've got a 32 inch barrel that I cut the bottom barrel off of a 32 inch set of barrels and modified a single barrel for a top single. So. And naturally I like a top single, a bottom, you know, under single or unsingle. I can shoot it, but I'm just not as accurate with it. I've tried it. I'm just, you know, I've got a unsingle for a 3200 that's been built by Simmons.
- [06:06]
B
Okay.
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C
And I went out and shot handicap with it, shot a 16 with it.
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B
So that went back in the closet.
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C
Yeah, we put that one back in the closet.
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A
I mean, that ain't bad if you only shot 16 targets. But you know,
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C
we wouldn't be, you know, it might be on the gun, but that was out of 25. So yeah, we retired it very quickly.
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A
It was a very, very short lived
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B
career with everybody listening. If anybody looking for an un single for 3200, Zeke might have one for sale.
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C
I got you hooked up here.
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A
You got it all dialed in. So. So you started very, very young, came from a family of trap shooters, obviously your dad being a competitor and winning a lot of trophies all across the board and then you starting early and then from there. When did you integrate into the ata? Like how long did it take before you. You said, okay, I'm going to start registering some targets.
- [06:59]
C
Not very long. I know you probably looked at the first registered target that I shot and out of a hundred shots, I shot doubles. The first time I didn't shoot singles registered, I shot doubles. The first registered targets I shot and the wind was blowing so hard that the wad come back, hit me in the face and the targets would come back and hit on the pads and. Ideal, ideal time to shoot.
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A
Yeah. Good first time experience, right? Yeah. Throw them into the ocean and teach them how to swim. There's only a few great whites.
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C
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, my first score out of a hundred was six. Six.
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B
I'm looking at it right now. And, and I tell you, Zeke though.
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A
Yeah, you, the, the one was a
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C
pair, by the way. One of them.
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A
That's impressive.
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B
And that's folks, is why when I
- [08:00]
C
hit that one pair, buddy, I'm telling you.
- [08:03]
B
Yeah, it looks like looking at your scores, because I got them pulled up right here. You, the first two years you shot a hundred, you broke six. Then you shot 200 and you went 56, 50. So you literally broke 112 out of the first 300. And your lifetime average on 33,550 is a 9,373. It's still a double A average.
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A
So, yeah, I would say that's, that's probably due for most improved double shooter on the planet.
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C
Well, that's like, you know, everybody says you ain't never shot your lowest score. I tell them, don't come at me with that crap, because I have shot.
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B
Yes, that is. You know, a good friend of mine, Zeke, and I don't know if you ever knew him or not, but Tom Bucksman, he passed away several years ago. But Tom ran around, he shot left handed shooter. He was kind of like my second dad. Tom was an all American from Nebraska and he was a bull rider. I mean, he was a man's man. I mean, he was tough as nails and. But we called him Turbo because he drove an old Ford diesel and that blew that black smoke out. So we called him Turbo. Well, Turbo told me that one time and he was shooting at Kinsley, Kansas in the handicap and he broke 48. The next year he came back, same handicap, he broke 96. So they gave him a trophy and said, well, you doubled your score from one year to the next. You don't laugh. But he said, years ago, Britt Robinson and all them guys said, you ain't shot your lowest score. And Brit told me that too. And I'm like, okay. And looking at your score, if anybody ever tells me, I'm gonna say, now wait a second, folks, you can go look at Zeke's doubles.
- [09:50]
A
I think he's got his low out
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B
the way he's gonna shoot. I think you could fall down and shoot from laying on the ground and break more than six.
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C
That's exactly right. You tell me I didn't start at the bottom of the pole. And I'll tell you, you are wrong. That is at the bottom, son.
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A
I mean, I think I beg to differ. That you could probably get more than six on your first post for the rest of your life.
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C
I think for my hip better,
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A
but, but that's cool. I mean, there's people that have probably picked this up and maybe, you know, channeled their inner Zeke and. And felt like, I can't hit nothing. And then they're like, oh, and now where you are, I mean, there's a huge improvement. Now, obviously you were a little kid, but. But there's tons of people that might pick that up the first couple times and get discouraged. And, you know, even young folks, and they're just like, well, I can't hit nothing. I'm gonna give up. And you didn't give up. You kept progressing. And that, you know, that shows that you must have cared about it or been interested in at some level.
- [10:46]
C
I like to tell everybody I had the love for it and stayed with it and wanted to get better. So when I first started, everybody wanted to win the Grand American Handicap because it was on the front of the magazine. You know, that's. That. That was the end goal. And I told dad, even when I started, I wanted to win doubles. I want to shoot for doubles. That's my thing. I absolutely love doubles. And I've told him a bunch of times, I said, this kind of reverts back to that average thing. I said, if it wasn't for the all round, I probably never would shoot singles.
- [11:22]
B
I. I totally understand. You know, and that's. And speaking of your doubles, so what happened? So, 2004, of course, you. You had a six. Now two. 2005, you averaged 53. Now we move up to 2006. You shot 2300 doubles and averaged 8000, 443. So what was the transition from 05 to 06 with, you know, your first shoot out of the gate? It looks like in 05, you broke an 81. Then you broke a 90. So that was like your high score of the 90 till you shot a 92 at the Tennessee state shoot, and the 92 and corinth. So what. What was that transition? What helped you? What'd you do?
- [12:12]
C
So I would say, first off, moving up to a gun that was equipped to shoot doubles, kind of like my 3200. Because during the 2005 year was when I was still shooting 1100, you know, lots of times it wouldn't cycle correctly. And, you know, after the third one, you know, or after the second one, you know, if it does it one more time, then you're cooked.
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B
You're missing target.
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C
I had that happen a lot. Of course, you know, I wasn't really worrying about average. I was just going to shoot. Of course, I. When I first started there in 2005, I shot a lot of reloads. And it was mainly just shells that I picked up that was kind of flubby. So you have a lot of shells and stuff like that in reloading. And I just, I gathered them up, you know, we. I knew I wasn't going to shoot very good, so dad wouldn't waste shells on me. He's like, you go ahead and take these shells right here. I'll. I'll shoot these over here. Of course, I didn't know no better. You know, I was like, yeah, they're shells, they go bang. Let's put them in a gun, see what they did. So. But yeah, I moved up, started shooting a 3200, started getting a little bit more serious about it. It's funny you say that. That 92 at this Tennessee State shoot turned out to be my first shoot off and. Well, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I got that wrong. My first shoot off was at the grand on the Nitro 27 handicap. Shot a 97. Pull that out of my rear somewhere. And of course, you know, up there they have. This was at Vandalia. And you know, it was about 1 o' clock in the morning or something when we shot off. You know, they had.
- [14:04]
A
It's crazy how it was that late all the time when they had those shoot offs. It was always. It was always really late at night. I. I do remember that about Vandalia.
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C
And it was, it was so bad. There was so many. You know, this is back when categories could fall here, fall there. You know, if you as a woman junior shooter, you could shoot for ladies, shoot for junior, shoot for yardage or whatever, and it'd just take forever. And I mean, of course I was nervous and lost it, but we got to go over to Friendly's at 2:00 in the morning, eat ice cream. So that was cool. So, yeah. But yeah, the big transition from shooting.05 to 6, I would say probably getting a little bit more serious about it. Going out, working, you know, dad working with me, kind of figuring out whole points, you know, timing a little bit different, things like that, you know.
- [15:02]
A
That's fantastic. Zeke, for one second, let's take a little break. Ricky, you're not coming in at all. We can't hear you. Which. All those yaz and blood. Now we can. What happened?
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B
I don't know.
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A
Well, whatever you were doing, you must have been.
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B
It was showing it running up on my. My deal was lighting up purple.
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A
Yeah, we didn't get it. It's okay. We didn't miss. We didn't miss anything, Rick, because he was, he was going on and explaining anyway. That's fine, but I just wanted to make sure. But going back to the grand in your shoot off, you know, what did that feel like for you? I know you said you lost, but the nerves of your first grand shoot off, I mean, do you remember what it was like and how it felt afterwards?
- [15:39]
C
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think that's a feeling that everybody doesn't really forget the first shoot off. Course the other kid that I was shooting against was about as nervous as I was because I shot a 19, he shot a 20. So I mean I would be safe and say we're both pretty nervous. It was a feeling of excitement and course a little bit overwhelming because you go from shooting trap out at your home club to own the big stage out there in the lights and of course never shot white targets. This is back when they shot white targets up there.
- [16:16]
B
Yeah.
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C
And you know, nobody really told me not to shoot at that tail. You know, that white streak that you have on a target. It's different to figure that out real quick.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You got to shoot at the top of a white target. And, and that was. I used to shoot a lot of here at my home club. So I was understood the targets when we got to Vandalia. And that's what I miss about Sparta is I wish they would throw white targets there.
- [16:46]
C
Oh, no doubt. I mean I've shot a bunch of since then and I think really they show up a lot better at night especially. You know, they used to not let it let the shoot off start till darkness so they could throw wide targets.
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A
Yep.
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C
But now, I mean you getting especially, especially in the double shoot off. They'll have it right of afternoon and they're freaking hard to see.
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A
That's. That's a, that's a pro and a con, right. I mean if you've got the eyes for it, you're better off shooting in that twilight and eliminating some people during that period because it becomes anybody's game. I mean if you put a really well lit target that everyone can see up well, it's pretty even. But if you go out there and you're shooting in that, in that little monkey dusk stuff, I mean there's just guys that I know that do not see well then. And, and it's. And I would say it favors, you know, the young eyes. It favors the, the guys that, that can just see a little bit better. Maybe they got a little bit more ability with their, with their eye reflexes. Than, you know, let's just say someone that's 50s or 60s, where that light, I mean, light into the eyes. And we just had an episode the other day where we talked all about the eyes and how, how they operate and what they do and, and, you know, I do love the idea of the nostalgia of shooting, you know, white targets at the ground. I think the ATA obviously has the reasons why they do what they do. And, you know, I understand, obviously they're getting done with shoot offs a lot earlier than they used to at Vandalia and that, you know.
- [18:16]
B
Well, yes, yes and no, Zach. So you, you gotta realize that a white target looks big and looks great. And actually, I think shoot offs, the shoot offs nowadays are a lot longer than what they were in Vandalia, because
- [18:34]
C
I would probably agree with that.
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A
The.
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B
The white targets, they're like, oh, people tend to lull into them and they make a mistake. Easier on those then. I mean, I know there's been some nights where, in that twilight what Zeke was talking about, where they, the doubles where we've shot a handicap, and you're like, you really gotta zone in. So you're really super concentrate for that round to, you know, try to make it through, and then you do. But I, I think that if they went to the white targets and you started later. Yes, it could go later. But I mean, I, I like the idea of the white tar or throw some green targets. Do something different.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah, you know, just change it up. Just shake it all up.
- [19:18]
C
Yeah, why not? That's absolutely right. You know, that's funny. The first year I went to the grand was in 2002. I didn't shoot it, but I got to go up there and watch. Course, I was inquisitive. You know, I had loaded some shells and I had shot a little bit here and there, but not nothing registered. Just kind of pedaling around at the club. And I asked, I don't know if you remember, Pete McCall. I asked him. He, of course, he was hot on the gun then, too. And I asked him, I said, what do you. What do you feel about these targets up here? Because I, you know, I'm asking questions on everybody. You know, I talked to Dean Bow. I'd ask him questions, you know, I probably annoyed a lot of folks asking them all kinds of questions. He said, son, I'm just going to tell you, if you'll get about that much, about a foot and a half out front of the target. It don't matter what it's doing, you'll break it that's explanatory. That was kind of like dad was talking about it at the clinic. Frank Little's tape. I found it at the house the other day. I was cleaning up a little bit. He had one of the vh, the VCR tapes of Frank Little.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And he said, man, I bought this tape and I feel like I'm going to learn a lot from it. He said, frank just said, point your gun right here at the top of this house, right here. Go after this first target, shoot it, come down and underneath and in front of the second one. He said, boy, I paid a lot of money to hear that.
- [20:48]
B
That.
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A
But it doesn't, it. You don't. It doesn't have to be complicated. I think some people in this sport complicate it, and it's really not. If you put shot on the front edge of the bird, the bird's gonna break. Like, it's, it's easy, but we overthink it. And then there's so many layers in our mind and in our, in our, in our process sometimes that they want this, you know, geometry of it and they want all of this explanation, you know, engineer mindset, where they're like, what's the 55 things you have to do between when you call pull and when a target breaks? Like, you know, I've, I've, I've met some people that, you know, they might not have a lot going on up in their brain most of the day, but they could sure hit a target. And you're like, you know, it's just. They see it and they shoot it and it's bam. And it's, it's just an instinctive shot. You know, they're. It becomes athletic at some level. Like, you have to have some hand eye coordination to do this sport. I think it does play into it now. Gun fit and glasses and shells and guns and all that comes into it too. But if, if you can't, like, look and move, it's going to be hard for you, I would say.
- [21:56]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah, most definitely. And I, like I said, I went through that phase asking a lot of questions and stuff. And finally I just come to the realization I'm overthinking all this right here. If you'll be on the front edge of where the target's going and keep your head in the gun, especially on doubles, there's not a whole lot there that could go wrong. And that's, you know, I mean, you're throwing, you're throwing a shot string at that part.
- [22:21]
B
Yeah. And if you're at the back, you're not going to have a chance to break the target.
- [22:25]
C
Exactly.
- [22:25]
B
And that's why everybody look at the front edge if you can. And people go, well, how do you do that? I'm like, well, you got to look at the target. If you're looking at the back, the gun's always going to come up to the back. So get on that front edge. And they're like, oh. Then they'll break a couple. And they're like, then it clicks. And that's all it is when you.
- [22:46]
C
When it. And that click is when it really starts popping for folks. And a lot of our kids in the clinic, when that click starts happening, especially in singles, oh, man. They start rocking then.
- [22:58]
A
Yeah. And I think that it has something to do also with. There's a lot of people out there that. That were told, you know, to get higher and higher and higher with the gun with point of impact. You know, Rick, when you're riding around your air conditioning and your nice am and I'm walking, I'm thinking to myself, where do I get one of these
- [23:15]
B
things At Big red motorsports, that's where you get one. George or Jason Lee, they'll take care of you, Zach.
- [23:21]
A
I mean, I need one. I'm tired of riding on the back of that cooler. I want to sit inside that cab and roll around in style. I mean, my face is on the back, but help me out.
- [23:29]
B
Listen, I'm gonna move your face to the bumper is where it's gonna get moved for the new one, okay? All you need's a little quiche and we can take care of you. But listen. BigRedMotorsports.com thanks Jason and George lee and big red motorsports for all the support. They'll take care of you folks. And it's free delivery.
- [23:45]
A
You know, Rick, the only thing looks better than these hats we're wearing right now. It's a bunch of gold and silver from Ron Prescott at mid state precious metal. Show them the goods.
- [23:52]
B
Listen, all I got silver right now. I won't bring the gold out for
- [23:55]
A
Zach, but you know, I always want to get that.
- [23:57]
B
Gold shotgun shells, 10 ounce bars, folks. He could do anything for you. For all your shoot needs. Give Ron Prescott a couple call midstate precious metals dot com.
- [24:07]
A
He's a great guy. Support him. He supports all the shoots. He supports trap Talk. If you're thinking gold or silver, you need to be thinking Ron prescott at midstate precious metals. Thank you, Ron.
- [24:16]
C
That's right.
- [24:17]
B
Thanks for all the support.
- [24:18]
A
You know, Ricky, I know you used it on your barrels, but do you even know what RGS stands for?
- [24:21]
B
No, Zach, what does it stand for?
- [24:23]
A
Really good.
- [24:24]
B
Well, that is true. It is good stuff, folks. I use it to clean my barrels, and it does make them shine.
- [24:30]
A
Only problem is I wear white T shirts when I clean my barrels and I get them all messy, so I got to be better at that. But it's gets all the plastic, all the gunk out. Give them a try, folks. They're great.
- [24:38]
B
That's right. Give RGS a try. We appreciate all the support. Hey, Zach, have you been out to 73 Pointers Ranch lately?
- [24:44]
A
You know, I have. Rick and Carla Burke have been great. I normally hunt pheasants and chucker down there, but now they got a brand new sporting clays facility and it is top notch. I shot it the other day, absolutely loved it. And if you guys haven't, you need to go give it a check out.
- [24:59]
B
We'll all have to come out and do a little hunting and we'll shoot some sporty clays.
- [25:02]
A
And 45 minutes from St. Louis Airport, come see it. If you haven't, guys, check them out. And then they have to get to the point where they're almost looking at the back of the bird because, you know, they're like, well, I'm looking at it and I'm blowing over the top of it four or six feet. You know, it's like if the gun set up way too high with what Ricky's doing and what we're talking about, you go to the front of the target. Well, Ricky's gun's not shooting 300% high. You know, we're looking at the front of the target. We're getting there, and it's shooting right where he's looking. So he's able to control that, and he's able to control it. Where it's going high, whether it's going low, whether it's moving this way or that way, that is important. But when you start, you know, creating distance between where you're looking and where the gun is shooting, that's where I think it becomes less natural. And people start to develop a lot of bad habits because they start to say, okay, well, I'm. I got to look here. I got to shoot here. You know, I've heard so many people say, well, well, once I see 3ft of float over the top of the gun, that's when I pull the trigger. And I'm like, how can you measure? I mean, how could you consistently ever measure any of that?
- [26:02]
C
You cannot do it.
- [26:05]
B
Anytime you start measuring, you. You start one, your hands slow down, because now you're trying to judge something. But the problem is what you're Judging is going 40 mile an hour, you can't, you know.
- [26:22]
C
You know, And God forbid what the wind's gonna do. I mean, that.
- [26:26]
B
Exactly. That's why I tell everybody. I'm like, just trust yourself. You know, Especially in doubles, you know, see that first target, shoot it and go. You can't watch that. Some. Some gun break. If you do that, then you're like, oh, and then you're locked up.
- [26:39]
A
But, hey, I will. I believe you, Ricky. But every once in a while, I've seen you meatball that first one so hard that you kind of give it a little look.
- [26:46]
B
So.
- [26:46]
A
And then you look at me, it's almost like you got enough time to, like, look over, unmount the gun, wave, and then go break the second one. I'm like, that's good, Ricky. That was. That was a good one.
- [26:54]
B
You know, I do. Every once in a while, I will. I'm like. And then I'm like, oh. And then I go into, like, not safe mode, but it's like trigger control mode. I'll go over there and I'll drag it out a little bit, and I'll look over. Everybody's looking at me, and I'm like, what?
- [27:08]
A
Well, because. Because if you. If you. If you meet a first target hard, like, sometimes, I mean, I'm not trying to do it. I'm always like, as soon as I pull in, I'm. Look, I'm. I'm transitioning. But. But every once in a while, I got to tell you, sometimes you hit one and you're like, oh, man, I just want to admire that. That smoke ball. It's almost like you're.
- [27:24]
C
You're.
- [27:24]
A
You're in a singles or handicap game and you forget you're shooting doubles, then you're like, oh, crap, I got to shoot that other one.
- [27:30]
C
What gets me is when you just ink doll ink dot a first target, and you're like, just kind of admiring it a little bit. And then you're like, oh, crap, I got to shoot this second one.
- [27:40]
A
Yeah, you give it a little.
- [27:42]
C
Oh, I've done that so much. I've done that down in Florida. Like, I caught one just right. And I mean, it looked like a. A low seven when you just.
- [27:52]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:53]
A
You turn one inside out, and I almost.
- [27:55]
C
I kind of come out of the gun just a little bit, and I had to remount, and I Just chipped the back end of the other target time.
- [28:02]
A
Just admiring your work, you know, you
- [28:04]
C
just gotta get a little looksy your work, you know, that's the way I think of it.
- [28:08]
A
So with your doubles, I mean, and you know, we'll, we'll talk about a lot of things this episode, but we kind of got in a doubles tangent here at the beginning. So, you know, apologize if I'm going down the rabbit hole. But for you, when you started really advancing, I mean, going all the way up to winning the ring, you know, what was your doubles practice regimen like? Were you doing a lot of practice? If you were, were you just shooting 50s or were you working on stations or what did that look like for you, Zeke?
- [28:34]
C
I didn't really shoot a whole lot of practice, per se. Tournaments would kind of be my practice, which at, at that time I wasn't shooting a whole lot. But I made sure that I give it a hundred percent, regardless of how much I had practiced or what, made sure that I was doing everything correctly as far as stance, mount, you know, making sure everything's feeling right. As far as practice, I would try to go out at the beginning of the year. Normally I just shoot from about April to the grand, and I try to go out and I'll shoot like 50. That's about it. I don't really shoot 100 much in practice. I just kind of use that as kind of the knock the rust off. So. And I try to go out.
- [29:28]
A
And I can understand that because you've been shooting your whole life, like you said, you've been shooting since you were six. So, you know, I think a lot of people that start a little bit later in the game, you know, they might have to bridge that curve with a little bit of practice on the front. But for you, I mean, you're so many years into this now and you've been doing it at a high level for so many years that, you know, it's more like, you know, what Ricky does. I mean, he, his practice is when he gets to the spring grand, he's like, oh, first box singles, let's go Monday. And then we're in the shoot.
- [29:56]
B
That ain't true. I'm going to go out. I haven't seen my trap gun since the. What, I guess that the prelim week of the autumn grand, I need seen it because I've been, I've been shooting some other fun games. So, yeah, I haven't even seen it. So I gotta pull it out and I just literally, I got some new Lenses, they, they showed up today. This afternoon, actually. So I'm gonna take those and, and go see if I can see the targets a little clear. And if that's the case, strap on your helmet, Zach.
- [30:31]
A
He'll be ready. I always know Ricky's gonna bring the show. You know, he's, he's a good shot. I mean, shot. He's. This is what he does. I mean, so you can't, you can't count him out, glasses or no glasses.
- [30:41]
B
So, hey, you know, you get to a certain age, you can't see very well. Blurry.
- [30:47]
A
I keep praying, you know, so one of these days it's gonna go and then the show's gonna change a lot.
- [30:52]
C
Kind of vision blur just a little bit on the 1st.
- [30:56]
A
He'll be quiet in these shows for once.
- [30:57]
B
And I'll be like, oh, no, I' be quiet. You can guarantee that, Zach. But now, zeke, you're shooting that 3200. What's your point of impact on that?
- [31:07]
C
About 60, 40, something like that. I shoot a pretty flat gun because I think of it this, if we shoot higher targets, I just move my point of, you know, I move my gun point up.
- [31:19]
B
Okay.
- [31:19]
C
Yeah, that's about all I do. Just kind of recognizing the target immediately. What, you know, what, what's being thrown at you? You know, because a lot of times we shoot a lot lower targets around here.
- [31:32]
B
So I've shot down there in the south and that. And that's what I mean, I hold on the house. But growing up in Nebraska with the south winds, you didn't hold a two, three foot gun. You know, height, you better not hear. No. And that. And that's when I went down and shot down there at Gulfport that year. You know, they threw some good targets, but they were just like shooting here in the Midwest. You know, we had a little bit of south wind coming off the Gulf and the targets are flat. And I remember one of the guys that came down there, he's like, man, these targets are flat. And I'm like, no, they're really not. They're nine foot target. I said, it's just. They go.
- [32:10]
A
But I think there's some places in the country that do throw this kind of straight up in the air pair that just hangs there like ornaments on a Christmas tree. And that's not realistic of what doubles is. If you shoot them across the country, you know, most of the time doubles are wide and they're rolling and you've got this arcing curve and you're coming in, you're hooking, and you're having to hook across, and it's a movement game left and right where, you know. And then. And you watch people that don't know how to shoot doubles, and they struggle with that. And then on the day they shoot good is the day where they've got that 15 foot, you know, set where they're, you know, basically right up in the air and they can shoot them like two shondells, you know, and it's. Yeah, it's. It's just a different. It's a different target for sure. And. And I think, Zeke, for you shooting a flatter gun, you said you're adjusting that hold point a little bit on the height. If it is a flat target, I mean, are you down on the house or are you off the house a little bit? I mean, what's the. What's the standard spot for you to start?
- [33:03]
C
I typically start about 8 to 12 inches, about a foot off the house, normally. Don't get too carried away or nothing. You know, I just start after the first bird, and soon as I see it, let it have it. But I don't really change much from that unless, you know, they're. If they're high consistently, I'll move up, of course, but if they're low, that's usually my good starting point. Now, I have shot right on top of the house before, and you know that a lot of places around here you might order. Shoot off the top of the house. And by the time I shoot my first bird, lots of times, the second bird has done started that arc.
- [33:47]
B
Arc down.
- [33:48]
C
Yeah, that's a tough way to shoot.
- [33:52]
B
Yes, it's.
- [33:53]
C
And I mean, I don't shoot them. I mean, I don't probably shoot them as fast as y' all do, but I shoot them pretty quick. I'm moving to the second one, and it's not fun shooting a fallen bird, even shooting that quick. So. But that's because we've got a wind to our back most of the time, so.
- [34:11]
B
Yeah, a lot of south wind down there. I know that.
- [34:15]
C
Yeah. Yep.
- [34:17]
B
It ain't like California.
- [34:19]
C
Oh, no, no.
- [34:20]
A
Hell no. So for you, with that being said, you've got. You've got your. Your strategy for doubles. Is that strategy completely different for singles and handicap, or is it very similar and it's basically the same style just for a single target?
- [34:36]
C
Starting off on singles, I've learned over the years, and I shoot just a little bit higher gun on singles, as far as point of impact, I shoot about 70, 30, 80, 20 around in there, just, you know, a little bit higher. Not much, but I hold on top of the house on singles and handicap of course, depending on what the target's doing. If they're, you know, skyrockets, you know, I'm not going to hold on top of the house in, but I typically start off basically like a one eyed shooter's whole point.
- [35:08]
B
Okay.
- [35:09]
C
And I've just discovered especially going somewhere that I've not shot before, it's better for me just kind of chase it a little bit farther and make sure that I'm right on it till I figure out what the targets are. And then we might move up from there. But that's, that's my standard point of impact and I typically hold off the corners of the house just a little bit on 1 and 5 just so I catch my hard right or hard left, you know, depending. It all depends on what Stargate's doing.
- [35:40]
A
And now you are a two eyed shooter. Correct?
- [35:43]
C
I am.
- [35:44]
A
So two eyed, right, Right handed, yep. So, so on the house. So very similar, I mean, to a lot of the top shooters that we're interviewing on the show. I mean you're pretty close to what Ricky's doing, pretty close to what a lot of the other guys are doing where you're seeing the target leave, you're connecting with the eyes, you're driving through with the whole body, you're moving. You have a predominantly flat gun. You're using gun barrel speed to break the target by coming through and rotating and, and more shooting with reflexes and eyesight than you are, you know, putting a gun up somewhere, waiting on the bird, trapping the bird, none of that kind of stuff. It's just all instinctive. Drive down and kill it.
- [36:22]
C
Correct, okay. Correct.
- [36:24]
A
Yeah. And I think that's just, it's, it's crazy because I, you know, I've talked to people in sporting clays, skeet, I mean all other games and they're like, you know, don't all the trap shooters hold high and hold here and hold there? And I mean there are some and there's some that have done it.
- [36:38]
B
20 point impact and.
- [36:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, I mean you just hear it and you know, you talk to people and then you go to trap shooters forums and you're just like, you know, all these people are gonna be like, oh yeah, you gotta shoot a 300 high gun. You got to do this, you got to do that. And, and when you actually look at the guys that are doing it and you just ask them what are they doing? They're not they're not, I mean most of them are now there are some that are and very successful. You can't, you can't discredit the guys that have made it work and do it. But you know, if you look at the run of the mill, you know, average of everybody shooting everything, you know, it all kind of ranges from 60, 40 to 90, 10. It all mostly ranges pretty close to the house and driving from behind and closing distance and seeing the bird and letting reflexes go and you know, that's, that's, that's good to hear.
- [37:24]
C
Yeah. I, I asked, I don't know if you know Brandon Powell, he's big sporting clay shooter one. Oh yeah, world. Quite a few times I was over shooting, just shooting some sporting clay. We go every now and then just, you know, crap around on the sporting clay range. And he was down there, they was getting ready to shoot the Camille cup and he was just down there getting a layout of land. You can't shoot it before, like a week before or whatever. But yep, he was kind of getting a layout of the land down there. And I asked him, I, you know, just curiosity. I said, you ever shoot any trap? He said, well, I shoot a little bit of it. I said, well, where do you hold your gun at? You know, just inquisitive. He said, I hold about a foot below the top of the house. Like he's using his eyes the whole way. The whole way, yep. And I'm like, well, that might not be a bad way to go, but I've seen people shooting talking about a high gun. I had a guy in a clinic one time that shot 150% high gun and he wanted to hold a high gun point one eyed.
- [38:38]
B
Oh.
- [38:38]
C
I said, brother, that right there is a concoction for disaster.
- [38:45]
A
If they throw it to his barrel, he's got that thing licked.
- [38:47]
C
Oh yeah, yeah. He had a Garmin system that was kind of telling what it was doing. And it was saying that he was shooting like 30 inches below the target. I said, hoss, you're not shooting below that target. I guarantee it. I will bet my truck you're not shooting below that target. And come to find out, he would shoot it just as it pitches in the way it picks up, it was showing that it had done started falling and he was shooting over the target. So yeah, on the house and he started just whamming them then.
- [39:27]
B
Yeah, the 150 point impacts. Like I tell everybody, there's only two guys I know that shoot a real high point impact. Ray Stafford and Harlan Campbell. And those two are about the only two that can consistently shoot that. And I tell people, if you're trying to float, like we were talking about judging a target, you start doing that and you're. You'll see it's like a heartbeat. Their scores, you know, it works great in perfect conditions. Get a little bit of wind or breeze, shoot. And that's what I. I teach everybody. I'm like, you don't have to hold on the house like I do, but get down there within about a foot, because anything over that, it's time. That target's coming out.
- [40:10]
A
Now.
- [40:10]
B
I will get people that'll say, well, I don't see it clear. I never see the target clear when it comes out.
- [40:17]
C
No, it's kind of a flash.
- [40:20]
B
It's a flash. Clears up.
- [40:23]
A
You know, Rick, I just love having the peace of mind and knowing that if I'm traveling or I'm flying, something happens, I can get my winig and my Craig off replaced quickly and easily without costing me a bunch of money.
- [40:33]
B
Yeah, exactly. The gun and trophy insurance, it's the best out there to ensure your guns, Cher, your trophy, animals, everything.
- [40:40]
A
Thank you to the whole Cushman family for supporting the show and everything they do for Trap shooting.
- [40:43]
B
Absolutely. Get a hold of Cole Kushman and he'll get you set up.
- [40:46]
A
I just love the way they're covering all the shoots across the country. The content, the pictures, what they're doing online, what they're doing on Facebook, Instagram. What do you think?
- [40:54]
B
Yeah. Traption usa, it's a great magazine. They are the official magazine of our podcast, and we are the official podcast of Traption usa. Say so. We really appreciate it.
- [41:05]
A
That's really cool. And what they got is a deal right now. If you put Trap Talk P in for the print version and Trap Talk D for the digital version. It's $19.99 for the print and $9.99 for the digital for one year. You're not going to find a better deal, so subscribe today. You won't regret it.
- [41:18]
B
Absolutely. Thank you for all the support.
- [41:20]
A
You know, Rick, I was at the Autumn grand and the Nevada State shoot, and I was just really impressed with how I could see where my squad was when I was up. Just the technology, the ability to be able to see what options I've played, if the event's paid or not. I mean, what's your experience with. With the app?
- [41:35]
B
Listen, SOS Clay's app. It's the best thing out there, folks. You see everything it's great. You see your option payouts. You can see when you're up, you can see who's paid on your squad. Sometimes Zach doesn't pay on time, but it's.
- [41:47]
A
I get out there. But what I really think is, is for gun clubs, it's free. Call Greg, get a hold of them. He'll set you up. He'll get you running. Right. And if you pay the premium, once a year, you get free pre squatting and all the shoots. And that's the best value in trap shoot.
- [42:00]
B
Absolutely. SOS clays dot com. Yeah, and that's the problem that people want to. I was just teaching the whole Lindenwood team last week, and. And it was kind of crazy. Had a couple kids that kind of did that. And I said, guys, you don't want to wait for that target to clear up. It's going to be 30 yards out there.
- [42:21]
C
Yeah.
- [42:21]
B
And they were like, oh. And then. And they're, to boot, they're shooting a light mod or a mod choke.
- [42:27]
C
And I'm like, you know, no, that. That's a recipe for disaster there.
- [42:32]
B
Exactly. So I'm like, just.
- [42:34]
A
You gotta.
- [42:35]
B
As soon as you see that flash move and it'll clear up. They were like, oh, yeah. Wow. It's. It just like the light bulb went off, y'.
- [42:44]
A
All. It does for sure. It does for sure. First, so for you now, Zeke, I mean, are you setting goals or are you doing any mental preparation to prepare for these big tournaments when you're going in, since you're not going all over the country? I mean, you're working. So, you know, there. There's a difference in, you know, guys like, let's say Ricky, this is what he does all the time. And then you're.
- [43:04]
B
Or is that.
- [43:05]
A
Well, yeah, but, but I mean, you're in a position where you don't have a lot of time to do this, right? There's. There's not a lot of people that are your age that are actually shooting the sport actively. I mean, you've got bookends, as we like to say. You know, we've got the younger folks that are in the categories and they're being supported at some level, and they're here. And then you've got the. The. The people that have made it in life where they can be here and shoot 8, 10, 12, 15 weeks a year. There's not a lot of people that are 30 to 35 that do what you do, and then on top of that, do it at a high enough level to win a ring or win a major trophy. So, you know, what are you doing from the mental aspect aspect to prepare to still be able to compete at a high level with the least amount of targets that you're shooting?
- [43:49]
C
Well, what I do most of the time, and I. And I know this sounds cheesy, but I try to take it as just one target at a time and have fun with it.
- [43:57]
B
Yep.
- [43:58]
C
You know, when I was chasing All American a little bit, I kind of got away from the fun, a little bit of it and kind of got more into that and I found out that my scores went up if I didn't really think about, you know, winning this or, you know, got to shoot good here, you know, whatever. My mental preparation now is just basically go out there. I like to shoot a practice round of a morning, kind of get started, kind of rattle the old acorn up here and, you know, just keep it simple. Do what I know, just go with the flow. Let's see what happens. And of course, when you get on the big stage, I like to think of it as, all right, let me see how long I run with the big guys. You know, let me see how. Let me see how long I run with Matt or, you know, how long I can go here. You know, just kind of set the goal to go up there and just give it my all and, you know, if we don't win, hey, they're having another one next weekend.
- [45:06]
B
Yeah.
- [45:06]
C
You know, we had a big time where, you know, we're not going to worry about it. I go see all my friends. I have a big time. You know, that's like. I went to one of the most fun shoots I've ever been to was this past year at the Indiana State shoot. Great for Bill. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely loved it and shot great while I was there. I mean, I jumped out of the car. We got there Friday night at like 2 o' clock in the morning. I went out on the field and broke a 200 in the singles and won that outright and come up and broke a hundred in the doubles and tied Joe and Joe Chartingo and you know, them two hundreds and singles and 100 and doubles somehow has kind of a mental block for the handicap because it's set me up for failure.
- [46:00]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [46:01]
C
So I come out and shoot like a 21 in the first box. So, yeah. And I was like, well, we kind of crapped on that. Let's kind of put it aside. And I come out, run the next box and ended up, I think, with a 94 or 5. But I, I think if I was given a word of advice on mentality, keep it simple. Don't try to stay in too deep, know, keep it fun, go out there. When you go to make the shot is when you get serious, relax. The rest of the time, just take a breath, relax. When it comes your time to shoot, you come up, you make the shot like you know how and don't, you know, don't overthink it. I know we talked about that earlier and I think that was kind of my mental block for a long time with singles especially is I would just overthink it. It's a singles target. I mean, you can basically go and shoot it from your hip. There's no reason to miss that target other than you just go to sleep on it, I guess.
- [47:05]
B
And yeah, and that's the one thing with singles is people don't realize, you know, it took me several years to learn that, you know, was singles is you can win an overall or lose an overall wine not breaking them, but you got to break them to win. And it's one of those things if you're just deliberate, take your time, one target at a time. It is a lulling event where you can get bored, but you got to break the target and that's the difference. And that's where like you said in setting your goals, I mean that, that's a great advice because like you said with the shoot offs and going out, just give it your all. And that's one of the things I think people that get in the shoot offs, like you said, your first one, you're nervous and. Absolutely. And that's one of the things that I learned a long time ago is you're going to be nervous. I still get nervous to, to this day in a shoot off. You just got to control it. Yeah.
- [47:59]
C
And yeah, I got to control that fire a little bit.
- [48:02]
B
Exactly. Control it and then let it rip. But if you give a hundred percent, you leave it all out there on the field, hey, if you win, it is, that's awesome. But if you don't, you can at least say, hey, I left it all out there.
- [48:17]
A
You did your best. And with you, I mean, that was a mouthful of good advice. But I think the, the thing that really resonated with me the most out of your comment was the fact that you said you really relax and take it easy. And it's not, you're not putting that extra pressure on yourself because I see too many young people now that, you know, they get, they get started, you know, they're like, okay, and maybe they make the all American team or they win a, you know, state shoot trophy or their first championship, and then it becomes an expectation where they're like, you know, well, I won. And now mom and dad says I got to win every time, or I think I got to win every time or. Or whatever, right? And so then. Then they. The opposite happens because now they've got this big pressure to do what they did once, and they expect it every single time. And I'm surprised how many people, one year, two year, three year into the game have that mindset, and it's like. And they almost feel like a failure if they. If they don't. Like, they're like, well, I've broke 100 in singles. Why can't I break a hundred every single time? Like, doesn't work that way. And for you to just have that. That laissez fair attitude of, you know what? Hey, I'm here to see my friends. We're going to shoot this event. We're going to see what happens. I'm going to see how long I can go. I'm going to measure myself against myself. I'm going to have fun, and we're just going to see where the chips fall. And if I get something, great, if I don't, it's okay, too. It's not. It's not the end of the world. I mean, there's a lot bigger things in this world than. Than, you know, this. We love this game. We all love this game. We're all lifers on this podcast, I'll say that. But. But if we do or don't break the bird, it doesn't really have much effect on the rest of the world. I mean, it doesn't.
- [49:56]
B
It's not going on there. It's not the end of the world. It's you. There's other things. And. And that's the one thing that I think some people, and especially some of these kids, you know, they. They want to do it and they love it and stuff, but they get in there and get kind of the bad attitude on stuff when they don't win or they had some early success, and then they. They maybe, you know, have some issues. They hit that roadblock like we all have, you know, everyone. And then they go, oh. And then they get pissy. And then the attitude, the shell throw and all that, it's like, hey, listen, you could be in school, you could be working, you could. You could be doing chores at home.
- [50:33]
C
Amen. Amen, brother.
- [50:35]
B
That's what I Tell.
- [50:36]
A
You could be in a. You could be. I mean, in another country where you don't have rights to do this, where you don't have the ability to. To. To shoot, trap or shoot anything or. Or even know where your next meal is coming from. Like, there's. There's so many different levels of perspective, right? And we have to look at this and say, well, in. In all reality, everyone that shoots this sport in America is very blessed. I mean, even if you just get to shoot it once, I mean, the fact that you have the right to do it, the ability to do it, the finances do it, the freedom to do it, I mean, this is a great thing. And most people do not have the opportunity. I guarantee you there's places in the world where they've never even heard of this. And, you know, it's not even a thought. You know, they're just like, well, where do we, you know, where are we going to eat today? Right? So, yeah, it's. It's a privilege. And it's. It's great that you have a humble perspective on it, Zeke, because, you know, you speak like somebody that isn't winning a lot of stuff based on your attitude, but you are. You're winning a ton of stuff. And it's like, you're not. You're not like, oh, well, I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and I got to win every time. And because so many people think that that's what the top guys are doing, that they're just like, well, I gotta win. And. And I mean, I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing it with the real competitors. I. I actually see it more from the people that aren't at the top level. It's the people that are kind of below, and they're just, like, wanting to get up there, and they make it such a big deal. And that barrier keeps them away from
- [51:59]
B
it because it keeps you from getting to the top. And that's where my. My first thing on any clinic I do and the papers that I hand out to people with 15 things on them, first thing says, have fun.
- [52:10]
C
That's exactly right.
- [52:11]
B
I mean, you gotta have fun. And that's one of the greatest.
- [52:14]
A
We have fun sometimes way too much fun, Ricky.
- [52:17]
B
Yeah, we do sometimes. We do get carried away on the fun meter at times, but between me
- [52:21]
A
and Ricky, I know with each other all the time. Time. I mean, some people are just like, man, you guys really rag on each other pretty hard. We're like, you know, this is my buddy. I Can't. I can't let him roll like that. He's. He's messing with me. I'm messing with him. And there's just a comedy to it. And, you know, but we're not any different in real life than we are here on the show. I mean, it's. It's just. It's just having a great time.
- [52:42]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [52:42]
C
That's all. That's what it's all about. And I see a lot of parents, too, that push their kids, I think, a little too hard. And I think that's one thing that kind of kept me involved with trap shooting is my parents. Both of them shot, and I never. They never did pressure me into shooting a good score. Like, look, it's gonna happen. You just stay after it, you know?
- [53:06]
A
Yeah. And I think that there is. There is some of the parents where I can understand the point of view and the perspective, especially when they're like, they're giving their child the opportunity to shoot this game. And, you know, maybe the child doesn't know the financial repercussions of the game. And the child and the parent is, you know, they're putting it all out there on the line. They're working overtime. They're making sacrifices. They're not shooting so that their son can or their daughter can. And so, you know, for some people, when they're putting it all out there, you know, they might have an expectation of what their kid can do and think, well, I need him to be good so that he can get sponsored, or I need him to be good so he can get a scholarship, or I need him to be good so that we can help pay our way in the sport. Right. Like, so I. I do understand that from the parents point of view, but I've seen it hurt more kids than help more kids when you put that extra level of pressure on top of them. Sometimes it works. But. But I think it becomes a matter of. They're. They're disappointed to let you down, first of all. And second of all, they don't. They don't want to feel that failure. Right. I mean, it's just.
- [54:10]
C
Right.
- [54:10]
A
That feeling of failure can be crippling in this game if you're not able to deal with it, because this is one of those games where you are going to fail. I mean, very similar to baseball. I mean, the hall of Famers, the greatest of greats. I mean, they're batting.333. Right. Well, that means they're. They're missing two thirds of the times they go to plate I mean, they're not. They're not hitting home runs every time.
- [54:31]
B
Well, they're hitting, Zach.
- [54:32]
A
They're making connection.
- [54:34]
B
It's just like what we talked about when Zeke said, you know, he started his first time shooting and breaking a six. And then to what he's accomplished now. I mean, that just shows you the grit that he has and the wherewithal to, you know, this is a sport he loves to do now. In order to do that, he got to have a good job. So that's why he's a doctor. You know, I mean, it's him gotta
- [54:56]
C
have a financial sport.
- [54:57]
B
You gotta good job.
- [54:59]
C
You know, I always told him, I said, if it wasn't for hunting, fishing, shooting clay targets, food and women, I wouldn't need a job. If all that just paid.
- [55:08]
A
You just live in a mountain like. Like a happy guy in a cave. I mean, don't eat it.
- [55:13]
C
That's exactly right. I. I wouldn't have to worry about a thing. You can get me working.
- [55:18]
B
I do want to discuss one thing, because I used to do a lot of waterfowl hunting years ago. I haven't done much recently just because things happen, but I do notice your. Your.
- [55:29]
C
The duck bands.
- [55:31]
A
You know, Rick, I. I know you had a lot of involvement with them since the beginning, since they started. But I really love the way that the shot tracker, you know, catches the doubles from shot to shot with the looping. You know, tell the folks what they need to know about that system.
- [55:43]
B
It's the best system out there. It's like having a coach on the end of your barrel, like we say, but going especially in double from first shot to second shot. You can see it on the graph. You can see it on video.
- [55:53]
A
Yeah, I mean, if you talk about that J Hook with Sean Holly and all them, I mean, it'll literally show that loop, and I think that's really powerful if you're doing it. They've supported the show since the beginning. It love trap shooting. They're great people. Give them a shot, folks. They make a great product.
- [56:06]
B
Take Aim Technologies.
- [56:08]
A
Hey, Rick, we got to take a second. We got to thank Outlaw Engineering and the Freston family for supporting trap shooting and supporting Trap Talk podcast. They've been here for us. They're great people, you know. You know them real well, Rick.
- [56:19]
B
Yeah, I. I've known Randy since 1988. R2 and. And the family, they're great supporter of the show. Coup just won the Autumn Grand Handicap Championship on a 97.
- [56:29]
A
I know. I was there. I got to interview him.
- [56:31]
B
It was great.
- [56:31]
A
I was so proud of him. He's doing a great job. Where's Coop? He's somewhere with that big buckle. He's having fun. So you need anything engineering related, get a hold of Outlaw. They'll take great care of you.
- [56:42]
B
Great folks. Thanks for all the support.
- [56:44]
C
Outlaw.
- [56:44]
A
Rick, I really think that Gunfit is probably the most important part of shooting big scores. Would you agree with that?
- [56:49]
B
Absolutely. I think Gunfit is the most important thing.
- [56:52]
A
I mean most of the top all Americans are shooting custom stocks. I know when I got my custom stock, my scores went up. I broke 100 straight from the 27 within seven days. I mean I'm sure your experience has been similar.
- [57:03]
B
Yeah, I've been shooting a custom gun stock for 20 years. Winning. If you want to win championships, get a win a gun stock.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah, call Bobby, call Luke. I mean we got the stock whisperer over there. Bill, give them a shot. They're great and they know what they're doing.
- [57:15]
B
Absolutely. Winig.com Check them out.
- [57:18]
A
I got to give a huge shout out to the Cardinal Center. They're doing a fabulous job and they've got some fantastic shoots coming up with some great prizes. John, tell the folks what they got coming up. Well, they've got their three big shoots, so they've got the Buckeye Open, they've got the Ohio State Chute and they've got the Cardinal Classic. The Buckeye is May 27 through June 1. The Cardinal Classic is actually after the Grand. So that's August 11th through the 16th. And the Ohio State shoot this year is June 22nd through June 28th. Also going to have the backfin shootout during the Ohio State shoot also. So yeah, they're really kicking it up this year, Rick. They're doing a big giveaway, twenty thousand
- [58:01]
B
dollar Lewis at the Cardinal Classic. So you guys don't want to miss that. So I might have to pencil that back in on the schedule if they're giving away a bunch of gold and silver for that. So I take it you do a lot of duck hunting in your area?
- [58:13]
C
Yeah, we do. Of course the duck hunting in the last couple of years has not been the greatest, but we've still been killing a few, killed a few bands this year. But it's kind of diminished a little bit. Of course my dad was an avid hunter, so that's kind of what kick started me into it. Yeah, first time I ever went, I was five years old shooting a Benelli and you know, knew right away shooting wood ducks, passing Over. I knew I was going to like this.
- [58:43]
B
You like now do you have a ton of wood ducks down there, I take it?
- [58:47]
C
Yeah, we got a pretty good bit of wood ducks, mallards, gadwall, stuff like that. We don't really get a whole lot of the ocean ducks, stuff like that. We'll get a few migrators in every now and then. We've killed a couple of golden eyes around blue bills, stuff like that. But nothing, nothing usually outside that norm. Just mallards, wood ducks and tea and. Well, we have a few teal and get wall. Yeah, well, yeah, we.
- [59:16]
B
We used to shoot a ton of blue wing, green wing, teal mallards and then. And one year we got into a swarm of wood ducks we jumped upon and it was loaded. I'm like, I'd never seen one and I mean I shot and I was like, I mean this thing's beautiful, you know, so. But oh yeah, you know, it was interesting. So. And actually the first goose I ever shot when I was like 16, I think it was banded. The very first one, everybody's like, really? And I'm like, yeah, the very first one I ever shot had a band on it.
- [59:49]
C
Oh yeah, that's awesome.
- [59:51]
A
That's only, only Ricky Marshall would have that kind of luck. You know, he gets. I'm surprised it wasn't double banded with a, with a, with a collar on it. A tracker. Yeah, he'd get that and be like, yeah, you know, everything at the top level, that's the Ricky life. It's just, it just, it just rolls to him.
- [60:08]
B
Good clean living.
- [60:09]
A
But you know, Zeke, I do want to transition a little bit because, you know, you are a medical professional in your field. To speak on the fact of what you do and correlated to trap shooting. How important do you think, you know, balance, body stability, chiropractic, like working that in. Do you see a big difference when people are, are in their, you know, good spot as far as their posture and everything? I mean, do you do correlate that to shooting good scores, do you think?
- [60:43]
C
Oh, absolutely. I mean you don't always put it like this right here. You don't see someone with bad form late at night in the shoot off. Okay. They usually have good posture. And I love to use Joe Chartingo for this because I love to watch him shoot. He's poetry. Motion shooting got, you know, by perfect stance as you can ask for and he's fluent with it. You know, I think a lot of times your posture of course being adjusted to always helps. It realigns the Spine and allows more mobility. So, I mean, case in point, it would have to. It would have to be correlated correctly. You know, I. I love what I do, and lots of times I used to would practice adjustments while I was at the shoot, knowing, you know, we wasn't supposed to do that, of course, but, you know, we still kind of did, you know, But a lot of folks would come in, their neck would be hurting, their shoulder would be hurting, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. Of course, I would work on, see what was going on and kind of get a little practice in. In between. And still now, this day, especially like at Kentucky, I think last year, I probably had, like, 50 or 60 people come up to me and say, hey, man, my neck's killing me. Hey, my shoulders killing me. Or my low back or something.
- [62:13]
B
Yeah.
- [62:14]
C
And I try to work with them or whatever, but, yeah, I absolutely love what I do, and I love that my career can go with my hobby as well.
- [62:26]
B
Yeah.
- [62:26]
A
Do you think there's any good, you know, stretches or exercises or things that people could do on their own without a chiropractor to help them? If we're in that position where you're mounting the gun, you're kind of leaning over, you're doing all that stuff. I mean, when we get done with a week of heavy trap shooting, I mean, there's things that naturally get a little bit tighter. Are there things that we could be doing to help alleviate that tightness in between visits that you would recommend, just helpful tips?
- [62:53]
C
Most definitely. I have a protocol from Bob Deval. He is out of Georgia, and he was the sports medicine doctor for the Olympic team. And it's a whole list of different stretches, exercises to do, posture, pulleys, all that kind of stuff. That is fundamentals for stretching and exercising for shooting. You know, I don't know if y'. All. I mean, I know y' all probably deal with the same as I do. Right in between my shoulder blades is my big kicker.
- [63:29]
B
Yeah.
- [63:30]
C
That's like the muscle that activates on me 24 7, especially when I start the shooting season. It doesn't really affect me as much as the shooting season goes on, when it kind of gets loosened up a little bit. But at the start of the season, man, oh, man, it is like. I know I've not been doing my stretches. Okay. I'm not. I'm not, you know, doing what I preach here. But, yeah, that's also. I teach a little bit of that in the clinic, too. I. I kind of give a speech on that. You Know, I don't want to bore a lot of kids, especially with that, but I do offer it, I show it to them, kind of give them a kickstart on how to do some exercises and stretching. And I, I think it has been very beneficial to a lot of shooters that I've shown that.
- [64:22]
A
I'd love to see it. And, you know, if it's something that you've got to share, I mean, I'm sure we could, we could put it on a link in the show or kind of just take a picture of it or show it up. You know, we do all that stuff all the time. We message people. If you got something like that that we can give to the listener, I know it's always appreciated because anything we can do to make it go through a week and not be so, so tight and so uncomfortable, you know, because some days, I mean, you know, you get out there with Ricky Marshall for three or four hours in a shoot off and you're like, man, this guy. It's getting heavy. My back's starting.
- [64:54]
B
I know since I've lost the weight, it's a lot easier, you know, down 90 pounds, it's a lot easier. But before I would. And I'd be hurting and people would be like, I don't understand how you can stand out there.
- [65:05]
A
And I'm like, it's just grit. It's just.
- [65:07]
B
He doesn't want to lose the only
- [65:09]
A
thing he is tough mentally. But now he lost that California sub Junior off him. He's. He's even tougher. I mean, he's, he's, he's got it going on.
- [65:19]
B
Zach's got all the jokes going on tonight.
- [65:21]
C
He's got them all, buddy. He, he, he's coming after you.
- [65:26]
B
He's. It's okay. I'm used to it. I got thick skin.
- [65:30]
A
We all got have thick skin on this show. I mean, if they're coming on the show, then they better be a little bit ready for. Because we think we got to keep
- [65:37]
B
your first shoot going to be.
- [65:40]
C
I'm either thinking about going down to the Southern Grand.
- [65:43]
B
Okay.
- [65:45]
C
Yeah, the Southern grand or Georgia.
- [65:48]
B
Okay.
- [65:49]
C
More than likely going to be Georgia this year. We're trying to. Like I said, we're trying to transition with this new office and, you know, don't know if we're going to make that one just yet, but Georgia especially, that's always one of my favorite shoots.
- [66:02]
A
Well, we'd love to see it in the Southern Grand. Me and Ricky are heading down there, so if you make it down There. We'll definitely go have a. Of couple cocktail one night after and you can show us some stretches so that we can last a little longer in the shoot off. I mean, that'd be.
- [66:12]
C
I know that's right.
- [66:13]
A
That'd be worth the drink for me. I'll buy Zeke.
- [66:16]
C
I mean, I got you team drinks now. Come on, Team Nini.
- [66:20]
A
Team Nini card is good to go, baby. But you know, we really appreciate you coming on the show today, Zeke. I mean, I'm. I'm looking forward to seeing you win a couple more doubles rings, you know, maybe a singles ring one day if you keep working at it. I don't know, but we'll, you know, we'll see.
- [66:35]
C
I only hope so, brother.
- [66:37]
A
Is there anybody that you'd like to thank or anything in parting words you'd like to say before we wrap up tonight?
- [66:43]
C
I usually, I like to thank my sponsors, of course. Tex Hollis. They've always been good to me. I started off with them and they've been just absolutely wonderful with me. Aaron Throckmorton with Kanati Live. He's a great advocate for the sport. He was one of the guys that kind of helped me get started. And of course, my parents for kickstarting me off into it as well. But I mean, all my friends in trap shooting, you know, they are. There's so many to name, and I'm just so blessed to have known so many folks in the sport. And I mean, they all know who they are. You know, I don't have to, I don't have to thank everybody because we'd be here all night with that.
- [67:27]
A
But, yeah, it's a big family, right? I mean, we all, it's, it's all a big group.
- [67:32]
C
It's like a family. It's like a big family reunion. And, you know, I tell everybody at the end of the shoot, it's kind of sad because there's some of them folks that you ain't gonna see till next year.
- [67:40]
B
Yeah, exactly. No, you're right.
- [67:43]
A
We.
- [67:43]
B
We get that all the time, especially at the Grand. You know, we got our building there and the, the studio people come in and, you know, Zach and I've talked about this a little bit, you know, where people, they come in, you see him this week and you'll see him next year, the same week. Yeah, that's, you know, but it's like you, you just talked the week before, just left off. And, and that's the cool thing about shooting is, is one big family. And, you know, it's good to see, you know, people different shoots, and that's why I like to try to go to some different shoots. Doesn't always work out that way, but I'm hoping to try to hit some different shoots because I've never shot, like, I've never shot Georgia State shoot, and I've never shot Mississippi State shoot, and I've shot in those areas, but never registered a lot of registered stuff.
- [68:32]
C
Well, the Mississippi State shoot is going to be at the Gulf coast this year, so. Big fan.
- [68:38]
A
When is it, roughly?
- [68:40]
B
What's that?
- [68:40]
C
It's going to be Memorial Day weekend. It's Memorial Day, and the Georgia State shoot is going to be the last weekend in April, I believe.
- [68:50]
B
Okay.
- [68:50]
C
That's a. That is a great shoot.
- [68:54]
B
Where are they holding that at this year?
- [68:56]
C
South River Gun Club.
- [68:58]
B
Okay.
- [68:58]
C
It's right there in Covington, Georgia.
- [69:02]
A
I might be able to fit Georgia
- [69:03]
C
Memorial Day's book, but, yeah, the. The Georgia State shoot, I mean, it's just a. It's a beautiful place. If you ain't never been there before, you need to go to it and shoot it. I mean, it's kind of a great bucket list shoot.
- [69:18]
A
Yeah, I might have to put that on the list. I don't have anything going on at the end of. End of April. So that's where.
- [69:23]
B
That's where I've done lessons with Rory. Liat is in.
- [69:27]
C
Yeah, Yeah, I know.
- [69:29]
B
Yep.
- [69:29]
C
Yep. Yeah, we've done a couple lessons out there. He. He turned into a great shooter.
- [69:34]
B
Yeah. He's shooting with me at. At the Spring grand here in a couple weeks. The main. I'm only going to be there for the main week because I'm actually gonna drive out, drop truck off, then I'm flying to the Safari Club International show and then flying up to St. Louis for the Lindenwood Awards banquet, then flying back to shoot the main week.
- [69:53]
A
He's Mr. Worldwide.
- [69:55]
C
He stays on the plane right there, bro.
- [69:58]
A
The United, they have a seat with his name on it.
- [70:02]
B
I think they do.
- [70:04]
A
Well, Zeke, we'll love to have you on again someday.
- [70:07]
C
You know, keep.
- [70:08]
A
Keep banging and keep working on it. I mean, we're. We're proud to see all the progress that you've made and the fact that you're working and coming back to the game a little bit more now that the business is being established. That's fantastic news. And, you know, you're. You're a good person for other people to look up to that are young and say, well, how do we do it? Well, you work hard. You, you know, you get educated, you build a business. You work hard, you figure it out, you make it work. You come back to the game, you keep it important. You make it important to you. And you've done that. You've stayed in the game the whole way, regardless of if it was a lot or a little. I mean, you just kind of tracked along with it and made your shoots and you've gotten a lot of very, very, very big wins across the country. So congratulations on all your success. We thank you so much for giving us your time tonight and for all your listeners that tuning in this Friday like Share, subscribe, don't forget to wear your trap talk gear proud nationwide. And let us know, Let us know who you want to have on the show if you have any questions. You have any people that you'd like to suggest, like Zeke, you know, get us in contact with them. We'll interview them, we'll have them on. We got a lot of great episodes upcoming. We got our friend Rory Lee coming on just like we just spoke on and a few others. So thanks for tuning in and happy Friday.
- [71:17]
B
See you guys. Good luck.
- [71:18]
C
See you, man. Y' all take care.
- [71:29]
B
It.