Trapital Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Follow The Money: EVEN, Duetti, and The New Deal Stack
Host: Dan Runcie
Guests: Mag Rodriguez (CEO & Co-Founder, Even) and Lior Tibon (CEO & Co-Founder, Duetti)
Date: February 20, 2026

Overview

This Trapital episode dives into how new digital platforms are fundamentally changing the music industry’s financial landscape. Host Dan Runcie speaks with Mag Rodriguez of Even—a direct-to-consumer solution powering unique artist-fan relationships and commerce—and Lior Tibon of Duetti, a music rights investment company building scalable infrastructure for buying and managing song catalogs. Both interviews explore how artists and rights holders are benefitting from greater flexibility, transparency, and new deal structures outside the traditional major label system.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. The Evolving Artist Financing Landscape

• Traditionally, artists had limited financing options, usually label advances with tough terms.
• In the last 15 years, a proliferation of platforms has given artists more autonomy: DTC storefronts, alternative financing, and nimble infrastructure.
  • “For most of the modern music business, the artists have had pretty limited options in terms of what financing look like…But in the past 15 years, the menu of options has grown considerably.” – Dan Runcie (00:04)

II. Even: Powering Direct Artist-to-Fan Commerce

Guest: Mag Rodriguez (CEO & Co-Founder)

The J. Cole Case Study & Platform Value

• Even worked with J. Cole on three campaigns, including the high-profile release of “The Fall Off” and its exclusive physical/digital sales and tour presales.
• Even distinguishes itself by enabling not just transactions but vibrant communities and engagement (e.g., custom forums, live chat, exclusive content).
  • “Fans show up, they engage, they buy…goes on and goes on.” – Mag Rodriguez (09:25)
• Even’s infrastructure is optimized for the music industry: content ingestion, payout, reporting to industry standards (MLC, Billboard/Luminate), high-traffic stability.
  • “Even offers that turnkey solution where we're built for the music industry…so those sales count towards Billboard, creating community engagement…That’s really why partners are choosing to come to Even.” – Mag Rodriguez (06:14)
• For superstars like J. Cole, speed and flexibility are crucial; Even’s platform enables integrated rollouts in days, not weeks.

The UMG Partnership & Model

• Even now has a non-exclusive, opt-in deal with Universal Music Group allowing any UMG artist to leverage the platform (requires artist buy-in).
  • “It requires the artist buy-in, because…it doesn't work [otherwise].” – Mag Rodriguez (11:38)
• Even’s deal structure is uniform—no exclusivity or special terms for majors compared to indies, meant to maintain ‘Switzerland’ neutrality.
  • “We want to be Switzerland. We want to service a new artist that's selling their first five albums and global superstars…exact same infrastructure.” – Mag Rodriguez (11:59, 18:13)

Expansion into Tour Presales

• The J. Cole campaign featured Even’s first arena tour pre-sales—a new service built at the artist’s request.
  • “Honestly, we've never done a pre-sale before. This is our first time…You know it was, it was interesting, but it honestly was something his team brought to us...” – Mag Rodriguez (12:57)
• The company prioritizes adding value without cannibalizing other partners or services, and is working towards an open platform with versatile integrations.
  • “It's been very intentional that the product only makes sense if it’s adding to the pie, if it’s adding value…” – Mag Rodriguez (15:37)
  • “You can show up and use Even in whatever way you want. But if you want to take your data or bring…elsewhere, you can do so at any given time.” – Mag Rodriguez (16:41)

Business Structure & Independent Ethos

• Even remains independent—majors have no equity or control.
  • “Did UMG invest in Even? The answer is also no.” – Mag Rodriguez (18:37)
• Even’s roots and ethos stem from serving independent artists who adopted DTC models first, and the company is careful about the investors it brings in.
  • “There’s something to be said that Even was a tool that was first available to independent artists…and it's something that a major label and a major partner wanted access to.” – Mag Rodriguez (20:35)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• (On building community):
  “Your traditional web store is transactional…A storefront powered by Even—fans show up, they engage, they buy, they engage, they buy, they engage, they engage…” – Mag Rodriguez (09:25)
• (On business transparency):
  “Did UMG just acquire Even? The answer is no. And did UMG invest in Even? The answer is also no.” – Mag Rodriguez (18:37)
• (On artist-driven innovation):
  “It just speaks volumes to—this is a model that the independent sector has owned and has really developed.” – Mag Rodriguez (21:05)

[Segment: Even/J. Cole Case Study] 04:55–22:00

III. DTC in Action: LaRussell and Music Pricing Innovation

• LaRussell utilizes Even for pay-what-you-want album sales (sometimes $10,000+), echoing Nipsey Hussle’s “Proud to Pay” model.
• Showcases the flexibility of Even for both grassroots indie artists and global superstars like J. Cole.
  • “He is the definition of selling music out of the trunk, but his trunk is the platform that he uses through Even…” – Dan Runcie (24:59)

[LaRussell Segment] 24:07–26:17

IV. Duetti: New Infrastructure for Music Rights Investment

Guest: Lior Tibon (CEO & Co-Founder)

The Duetti Model

• Duetti is a company (not a typical PE fund) that has raised over $200 million (mix of equity, credit, securitization).
  • “Duetti has two kind of core functions. Number one…building pretty sophisticated platforms…Second…funding for acquisition itself.” – Lior Tibon (26:54)
• Equity is used to build scalable tech, data forecasting, and operational teams; debt/credit finances song catalog acquisitions.

Differentiating from Legacy Funds

• While major funds target massive, decades-old catalogs with huge checks, Duetti focuses on “smaller” deals (typically $1M–$5M) on younger tracks (as new as two years old), investing in large volumes (80+ deals/month).
  • “We are not a fund…when we raise equity capital…that money sits on our balance sheet…very different than a fund.” – Lior Tibon (30:17)
  • “The only way you can actually do the type of deals that we do…is to really have a very robust data and infrastructure…” – Lior Tibon (30:51)

Automation vs. Human Element

• All deals include personal, high-touch engagement with creators; automations are used for identifying leads, analytics, admin, post-deal royalty collection, and digital marketing.
  • “We never want to be in a situation where the artist…is dealing with bots or machines. This is a very nuanced…process…” – Lior Tibon (31:57)

Typical Deals & Value Proposition

• Most sellers keep parts of their catalogs; Duetti structures are flexible, supporting artists in the prime of their career who want strategic liquidity, not simply cashing out.
  • “We've done over 1100 deals so far…the majority…have been with artists…that decided not to sell everything.” – Lior Tibon (34:25)
• Duetti provides unique marketing and promotion post-acquisition, unlike pure advance/loan deals, incentivizing growth for both sides.
  • “We invest a lot in marketing and management of the catalog once we get involved…because it benefits us.” – Lior Tibon (37:14)

Marketing Muscle & Remixes

• Focuses on digital-first marketing (performance ads, playlisting, YouTube management).
• “Remix” program—reinvigorating older tracks via new artists, influencer activations on emerging platforms (TikTok, Reels).
  • “We have a very robust remix program whereby we actively pitch songs…for new artists to create a remix…” – Lior Tibon (39:20)

Future Roadmap

• Duetti is focused on music; no plans (yet) for financing deals with influencers or other IP owners.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• (On deal structure):
  “It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges a little bit…” – Lior Tibon (36:34)
• (On remix impact):
  “What we found is the most successful strategy is…invest very heavily, very quickly with influencers…and that initial trend can grow to something a lot bigger.” – Lior Tibon (40:08)

[Segment: Duetti Interview & Music Rights Investment] 26:22–41:54

Bonus Segment: Streaming Metrics & Industry Trends

• J. Cole's "No Role Models" is one of the decade’s top streaming songs, outpacing even hits like "Uptown Funk" and Maroon 5’s "Sugar." (23:10)
• Notes on Taylor Swift's streaming delay and its impact on catalog numbers.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro to Episode/Platform Landscape: 00:04–04:51
• Even & J. Cole Case Study Interview: 04:52–22:00
• LaRussell DTC Deep Dive: 24:07–26:17
• Duetti / Lior Tibon Interview: 26:22–41:54

Memorable Quotes

• “Fans show up, they engage, they buy…goes on and goes on.” – Mag Rodriguez (09:25)
• “We want to be Switzerland. We want to service a new artist that's selling their first five albums and global superstars…exact same infrastructure.” – Mag Rodriguez (18:13)
• “The only way you can actually do the type of deals that we do…is to really have a very robust data and infrastructure…” – Lior Tibon (30:51)
• “We never want to be in a situation where the artist…is dealing with bots or machines.” – Lior Tibon (31:57)
• “It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges a little bit…” – Lior Tibon (36:34)

Tone and Takeaways

This episode is rich in practical detail and upbeat, business-focused optimism. Runcie, Rodriguez, and Tibon all speak with pragmatic enthusiasm about how new infrastructure is empowering both independent artists and global hitmakers, shifting power dynamics away from industry gatekeepers. By building fair, transparent, and adaptable platforms, they’re reimagining how value is created and shared across the music ecosystem for the next generation.

For Artists, Rights Holders, and Operators:
This episode gives actionable insight into the options, mindset, and mechanics of next-gen music commerce and financing—a must-listen map for anyone navigating the modern music business.