Trapital Podcast: "Investing in Music Rights with Shamrock Capital’s Jason Sklar"

Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Dan Runcy
Guest: Jason Sklar, Partner at Shamrock Capital Advisors

Episode Overview

In this episode, recorded live at the 2025 Trapital Summit, Dan Runcy sits down with Jason Sklar of Shamrock Capital Advisors to dissect the evolving landscape of music rights investing. The conversation traverses market trends, deal structures, the importance of relationships, Shamrock’s long-term strategy, active vs. passive management, the influence of gaming and AI, and key differences between investing in music and film/TV rights. The discussion is peppered with Jason’s unique industry insights and practical anecdotes about investing in legendary catalogs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Music Rights Market in 2025

• Capital & Activity Surge
  • There’s a strong supply of both capital and rights deals. Activity in 2025 has picked up compared to 2024, with both new entrants and established players making moves.
    • “There is a lot of capital looking for opportunity to invest in this sector... Activity has picked up in 2025 relative to 2024.” — Jason Sklar [03:26]
• Market Complexity
  • Many funds are focusing on distinct niches (e.g., Christian, country music, small or large deals), creating a more segmented and layered market.

2. How Deals are Made: More Than Just the Math

• Analytical & Qualitative Approaches
  • Despite increased data, outcomes are not fully rational—emotion, need for a “first win,” or gaps in a fund’s genre coverage often drive aggressive bidding and outlier valuations.
    • “There’s analytics, but there’s also, I think, qualitative factors... human factors that come into play...” — Jason Sklar [05:34]
• Role of Relationships
  • Industry connections, trust, and prior collaborations profoundly influence which deals happen and with whom.
    • “The human part is extremely important for the most part as well.” — Jason Sklar [07:41]

3. Shamrock’s Long-term, ‘Buy-and-Hold’ Strategy

• Rarely Sells Core Music Assets
  • Shamrock holds almost all acquired music rights; their only significant sale was Taylor Swift’s original six albums back to her.
    • “We’ve made one sale in music, and that was a unique ingredient... Everything else we still own.” — Jason Sklar [09:35]
• Focus on Lasting Value
  • Shamrock invests for multidecade horizons and prioritizes partnering with trustworthy, communicative talent representatives.

4. Active vs. Passive Management of Rights

• Hybrid Approach
  • Shamrock’s ideal is to “put fingerprints on timeless content”—improving metadata, audits, and working with partners to keep music culturally relevant, whether they hold administrative rights or not.
    • “For us, it’s about putting our fingerprints on timeless content... We follow quality, commerciality, and perceived durability.” — Jason Sklar [13:04]
• Reinvestment as Essential
  • Continual reinvestment is needed to maintain and grow relevance—especially across new generational touchpoints.

5. Reaching the Next Generation: TikTok, Gaming, and Relevance

• New Modes of Discovery
  • Jason’s family demonstrates evolving consumption: adults via streaming, teens via TikTok, preteens in Fortnite.
    • “If you’re not thinking about a gaming strategy for music discovery, then something’s wrong.” — Jason Sklar [15:28]
• Gaming and Music Investment
  • Shamrock is investing in UGC games like Roblox’s Brookhaven, planning to add music layers to popular titles.
    • “We think Roblox or UGC Gaming is a really interesting space to be in... it has no music in it yet. So we’re going to try to fix that.” — Jason Sklar [16:33]

6. AI: Promise and Caution in Music Rights

• Three Main Lanes
  1. Protection: Safeguarding copyrights.
  2. Fan Experience: Personalized, viral, and customizable song experiences.
  3. Analytics: Leveraging data and infrastructure to become “smarter, faster, stronger.”
  • “Next time you text me, you’re going to get my own sound coming back at you, but maybe a different version of a song that you and I already know.” — Jason Sklar [17:15] / [18:31]

7. Film & TV Rights vs. Music Rights: Different Beasts

• Music vs. Film Modeling
  • Music is predictable (B2C, streams = revenue). Film/TV is B2B and far less transparent, relying on negotiated license fees rather than audience data.
    • “The music model is a B2C model... In film, it is not that way. It is still a B2B model... That’s also why there’s less competition in film.” — Jason Sklar [19:59]
• Lessons Across Sectors
  • Film’s reliance on franchise IP and sequels inspires music to mine catalogs for evergreen hits and new relevance, such as Elton John’s recent collaborations.

8. Reinvesting in Legendary Content

• Making Old Hits New Again
  • Both music and film, the future lies in creative remixing, re-releasing, partnering across generations, and culture-driven marketing.
    • “How do you invest in creating virality and culture around the biggest songs that already exist?” — Jason Sklar [22:46]

9. What Makes a “Holy Grail” Asset?

• Ultimate Acquisition Targets
  • Either (a) four-quadrant, evergreen global hits or (b) ultra-dedicated, cult-favorite catalogs (e.g., Daft Punk).
    • “Songs that are four quadrant songs... Conversely—songs that have very unique niche following, cult following…” — Jason Sklar [24:09]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “There is a lot of capital looking for opportunity to invest in this sector... Activity has picked up in 2025 relative to 2024.” — Jason Sklar [03:26]
• “There’s analytics, but there’s also, I think, qualitative factors... human factors that come into play...” — Jason Sklar [05:34]
• “The human part is extremely important for the most part as well.” — Jason Sklar [07:41]
• “We’ve made one sale in music, and that was a unique ingredient... Everything else we still own.” — Jason Sklar [09:35]
• “For us, it’s about putting our fingerprints on timeless content... We follow quality, commerciality, and perceived durability.” — Jason Sklar [13:04]
• “If you’re not thinking about a gaming strategy for music discovery, then something’s wrong.” — Jason Sklar [15:28]
• “We think Roblox or UGC Gaming is a really interesting space to be in... it has no music in it yet. So we’re going to try to fix that.” — Jason Sklar [16:33]
• “Next time you text me, you’re going to get my own sound coming back at you, but maybe a different version of a song that you and I already know.” — Jason Sklar [17:15] / [18:31]
• “The music model is a B2C model... In film, it is not that way. It is still a B2B model... That’s also why there’s less competition in film.” — Jason Sklar [19:59]
• “How do you invest in creating virality and culture around the biggest songs that already exist?” — Jason Sklar [22:46]

Notable Timestamps

• 03:26: Current state of music rights market; capital and deal flow
• 05:34: Market psychology, qualitative vs. analytical factors in deals
• 07:41: Importance of relationships in rights transactions
• 09:35: Shamrock’s buy-and-hold philosophy and long-term strategy
• 13:04: Shamrock’s approach to post-acquisition management
• 15:28: The need to keep legacy content relevant for new generations
• 16:33: Shamrock’s gaming investments and music-gaming synergies
• 17:15–18:31: AI’s potential for customization, fan engagement, and analytics
• 19:59: Contrasts between music and film rights as investible assets
• 22:46: Strategies for reinvigorating catalog content
• 24:09: Criteria for a “holy grail” catalog asset

Final Takeaway

This episode offers a transparent and nuanced view on music rights investing from a leading industry insider. It underscores that, as much as analytics and returns matter, the sector remains powered by human factors—trust, relationships, and the creativity to bridge generations and mediums. Shamrock’s cross-sector investments and future-facing strategies (AI, gaming) offer a template for where the industry could head next.