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Trapital
James Supreme on Being the A&R Behind Lil’ Nas X “Panini”, G-Eazy's Management Team, and why Mental Health Matters in the Industry
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Foreign.
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Hello and welcome to the Trapable podcast. I'm your host, Dan Runcy. Our guest today is James supreme, who is an ANR for Universal Music Publishing Group. He's worked on a ton of dope projects. He's worked on Lil Nas X's Panini. He also is managed artist, too. He's worked with G, Eazy, Lil Dicky. Going to get into all of that, the first question I do have to ask you. It's a Saturday morning. We're in San Francisco. Did you feel the earthquake?
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A
I actually did. I was having breakfast and I wasn't sure if it was the hotel garage opening or if it was an actual earthquake. I've lived in California now for the last four years. I'd never felt an earthquake. You know, the last two earthquakes that I think I could recall happened while I was in essence, while I was at the Essence Festival in New Orleans. So I missed those. And I never actually felt an earthquake until today.
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B
It's weird.
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A
It's crazy. Yeah, it was weird. I didn't feel the aftershock. I don't know if I caught the aftershock or if that was the earthquake, but we're here.
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B
The last one that I felt, I'm surprised you made you didn't feel this one. Maybe you're at Essence, but I was at summer league for the NBA. This was fourth of July weekend. We're literally watching the game where Zion was playing against RJ Barrett, and the ground starts shaking. So then I looked at my buddy next to me. I'm like, is that just the arena or do you feel that right now? And then 10 minutes later, we ended up, like, stopping the game.
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A
We like, but they were playing through the earthquake for a second.
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B
They played through it for a second. Yeah. It was like, we're temporarily going to pause. We may be going back to this. And then we're like, there's no way we're going to go back to this. You got to stop this game right now.
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A
I'm glad you said something because I would have definitely not known it was that.
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B
One of the interesting things, though, and let's dive into it, is you working specifically with Lil Nas X. And first, want to give you congratulations because Panini is out. It is the number five song in the country, and I think it just passed 100 million views.
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A
100 million views on YouTube.
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How does it feel, man, it feels.
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A
Great to be part of an artist's story. You know, I directly work with the producers behind Panini and Rodeo. Their names, David and Denzel of take a day trip. And so, you know, a friend of mine, a really good friend of mine, Felicia, she's the head of Urban at Columbia. Right when the little Nas chatter started to happen, things were being broken on the Internet. Back in March, late March, I found out through the grapevine that he had just signed to Columbia. And so I hit up my good friend Felicia and said, hey, emoji eyes just heard the news. She's like, wow, you're always early on everything. I said, I need to get involved. Because for me, as an A and R and somebody that connects the dots, it's almost easier to get my people involved right at the beginning, as opposed to 19 weeks at number one trying to then get creative. So I felt that was the moment. And so she immediately was like, okay, cool. Let me connect you with our A and R and team who's working a project. And that's Wes. Shout out my friend Wes at Columbia. And, you know, as an A and R, my job is kind of work in tandem with the A R's on the label side and say, hey, these are the producers or writers I think would be really dope to work on this project. What do you think? And it's Wes's job to kind of give me feedback and say, okay, we're not trying to make Old Town 1, 2, 3, and 4. We're trying to kind of, you know, put together a project of all different sounds. And I said, oh, these are the guys. And I listed off maybe four or five different producers. And, you know, from there, he was like, take a day trip. Let's go. And that was ended up being Lil Nas's first actual studio session since Old Town Road had kind of gone crazy and uncharted. And so Panini, that was the first idea they did, which is crazy because now that's his second hit. And, you know, it doesn't always happen like that for artists and for producers to connect with each other, because you're asking for, you know, two people to come together that have never met before, and it's almost like a blind date. You're hoping that everybody's vulnerable enough and that the vibe and energy in the room is kind of conducive to that creativity.
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B
Is it different at all working with someone like Lil Nas X because of how he approaches Old Town Road and how he approached his music? I often call him a growth hacker who happened to be an artist. Him thinking about SEO and all the things about getting a song like that to hit, it's a bit more of A science than an art in terms of how someone would normally go about it, but your job is purely more about the artistic nature of it. Did you have to take any different approaches when working with someone like him and how he approached Old Town Road relative to some of the other artists you might work with?
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A
Well, you know, to be honest, I'm really the behind the scenes guy. You know, I like to say, okay, this is an artist who has, of course, a bunch of different musical references. You can tell from listening to Old Town Road one time, who do I think I could pair on my end that would complement that. And so, you know, I've had the pleasure of working with Denzel and David of Take a Day Trip for the last year. We were friends before I got on the A and R side. So I know what they can do musically. You know, they went to nyu, they studied music theory. Like, they really do this. They don't just, you know, press, press some buttons and hope for the best. Like, they really know what to do. And they've been in a position before with new artists before they've broken. And they've been able to capture that magic in the studio once before with Sheck West Mo Bamba specifically, and how that was their first studio session and that song happened in one take. So given all that, it's kind of, you know, my job to say, okay, this could be the best scenario for this. And I think Lil Nas is a genius in the fact that he kind of knows what he wants to talk about and what he wants the song to be before. Producer might play a beat or he might hear a beat and say, okay, I know the story that I'm gonna create from this. And not a lot of artists can do that. You know, some will just start with melodies and different ideas as far as, like, just going in the mic and trying something. But he's able to kind of say, okay, this is. This is the angle. And another artist I've gotten a chance to work with who kind of reminds me of in that sense and who I hadn't really thought about it until right now is Little Dicky. You know, I tour managed Little Dicky six months after I moved to la. And he is one of the funniest, most genuine, just smart, all around great dudes that I've ever met. And the way he approaches songwriting is, you know, it's super. It's so different. He'll say, okay, I have an idea. I want to make a song based on Freaky Friday, the movie. You know, literally, we were Talking about this idea back in 2016, 2017, and song didn't come out. Yeah, 2016, the song didn't come out until 2018. And so all that time he was trying to find the right production, he was trying to figure out, okay, what can I lay this idea on? What's the musical bed gonna be? And from that idea, he's able to create, you know, this moment that you. You know, and that you hear later on the radio and that becomes a hit.
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B
I'm sure part of that, too, is thinking about who is the person you're placing him with. Right. I don't know if you know, but did he know that Chris Brown was the person that he wanted to do Freaky Friday with?
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And the funny thing is, I think he did. I think he knew, you know, just, like the song, he did, like, the We Are the World rendition that he did. He had all those references, and he was like, I want Rick Ross to be a skunk, and I want this person to be this. And so his job from that point on is to find the people to bring in. And I think he's found a producer, Benny Blanco, to really put all these ideas together. And then from there, they kind of invite the new ideas in. But, yeah, Lil Nas is kind of similar in the way he approaches it. So my job is, you know, once the guys had connected, take a day trip and connect with Nas, my job is essentially done. Like, he's found, you know, these producers that he hit it off with and that he feels, you know, creatively vulnerable with.
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B
So at what point are you, I guess, with Panini, specifically? At what point do you hear the product before it goes on the streets?
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So I go to the studio. So I was working out of the office, and I knew the session was happening. So might have been two hours. Two or three hours into the session, I got there, and so I hear, you know, I hear the beat, I hear the verse, the hook, and that was it.
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B
And question for you on that, because are you a Nirvana fan?
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I didn't realize that I was, because I grew up playing what's that? Guitar Hero.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I grew up playing Guitar Hero.
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B
Yep. In Bloom was in Guitar Hero, and.
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I didn't realize that until later on, which might have been how he might have heard it, but not really heard the song. Because Lil Nas X wasn't familiar with that song.
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Right.
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He had to rediscover that song.
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B
Right. Cause I read that, and I was like, really? I'm listening to the hook of Panini, and I'M like, you didn't hear that.
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Before this man in the studio. It didn't even cross our minds. It didn't even cross our minds. And so I get there, and we're all like, oh, wow, this is crazy. And it just sounded, like, so different. And I could tell he was telling a story. And so then I asked him, you know, of course you're not just rapping about a Panini. Like, what is the meaning? Because we have different cultural references, because he had just turned 20 and I just turned 26. So then he went on to tell me that Panini was actually a character in the show Chowder. And I missed that because I didn't grow up on Chowder as a cartoon. You know, I grew up on Rocco's Modern Life and a bunch of those shows. So he was able to draw from something that I'm sure a lot of other kids can relate to. And the fact that Panini is, you know, one of the main characters, and she's kind of always harassing the main character. And he related that to, you know, the new fans that he picked up that want him to continue to make old Town Road 2, 3, 4. But they don't really care to see him explore creatively. And so he's kind of just like, what do you want from me? You know, you wanted me to.
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B
You were.
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You were behind me. You wanted me to blow up to be this big superstar, and now, you know, I'm becoming that. And because everyone else is discovering me, you don't want that. And so, yeah, just his genius and being able to, you know, tie that story together. Before he even finished the second verse, he leaked it on Instagram. So we're sitting here in the session, and I'd never seen that happen before. He put a video up on Instagram immediately, all his fans, because this is the first piece of new music people are really hearing after Old Town Road. So he's like, what do you guys think? He's starting to post these snippets now. And so he broke the song before we finished bouncing the MP3 file and immediately the comments. Hard. This is hard. Drop Panini. Drop Panini. And then Genius took the video and reposted it. And Boy Wonder commented under that, this is hard. And so, like, it took on a life of its own in the session. And then it wasn't until later that they came back and finished the second verse. But what we did was he was in the booth. I think he was kind of redoing some ad libs or whatever. And he just started whistling. He started whistling. And I was like, oh, my goodness, that sounds so hard. And Denzel, who was on the. On the boards, he was like, oh, yeah, we're keeping that. And they put it intro and they looped it on the. The outro and kind of just tied everything together.
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B
That's that growth hacking that comes in. I mean, I think he's someone that understands how fans want to be brought behind the scenes. They want to feel like they're part of the process. And that's definitely something that. Billy was different. Just 10, 15 years ago, you could put out your music every few months and do your single, and there was enough from that. But because there is so much access, fans want that, and he gets that. I mean, he was a strong social media presence well before Ultan Road. And I think, although it's probably very counterproductive to how the industry's used to running, those are the things that helped him get to where he is 100%.
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A
He didn't forget that. And essentially he leaked his old project on social media. You know, I'm sure the labels, you know, a few years ago would have been like, oh, my God, you can't do this. Let's take these snippets down. But he has a platinum ep, platinum album because of him staying true to kind of what helped him get into this position. And the way he understands social media is just, you know, we could talk about him all day, but he's one of the artists that I'm blessed to be able to kind of help and work with through producers or different writers that I get to work with, man.
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B
You mentioned Lil Dicky earlier. I find him and G Eazy, who I know you also had worked with their management team to help him with. I find them interesting because I've written often about the difference of white rappers versus black rappers. And what are the different strategies? What are the different things that they may have to do? And I think to the average person, things seem fairly democratized. But there's things such as who gets played on pop radio versus who gets played elsewhere. Does any of that play into how you might A and R a project or how you might go about managing them specifically?
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A
Yeah, well, first I want to start by saying this, man. Talent is talent. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, whatever. And I could say these guys are some of the most talented artists that I've ever had a chance to work with, you know, And I would say that whether I would. I had an experience with Them or not. Because when you look back at it, G. Eazy coming from the bay and becoming a producer and creating his music from scratch and, you know, his whole grind and, you know, Lil Dicky becoming. He's probably one of the best bar for bar rappers ever. Like, he. I would put him. I'd put money up on him against any rapper in a freestyle. He's just so smart. But there were certain experiences that kind of showed me differences in how, you know, black artists are treated versus white artists, specifically being on the road. You know, it's not a secret that the way black artists or artists that make urban music are treated at venues is completely, you know, extremely hostile sometimes. You know, because of the prejudice, people are already assuming one thing before we even walk in the building. And as a tour manager, as a young tour manager, at this point in my life, I was probably 22, 23 when I first started going on the road. I would feel the difference if I walked into a venue with Made in Tokyo, for example. Before we even step off the Sprinter van, they're already asking us, do we have our wristbands? Where are our wristbands? Where's this? Where's that? I'm like, whoa. Hey, I'm James. Great to meet you. We're gonna have a great show. And I have to set the tempo to let them know we're actually professionals in this space. We know how to conduct ourselves. This isn't our first show, so please give us that respect. And I don't have to ask for that respect, necessarily, going out with an artist like Little Dicky. But what does happen, which is funny, is they don't assume that you're the tour manager, or they, you know, they're looking for the tour manager to then start discussing things with.
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B
Do you think that you're the rapper?
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And I'm like, hey, I'm right here, James. Great to meet you. We've been advancing on emails. We've, you know, had communication for the last two months. And then it's, you know, sometimes like, oh, wow, you know, and then I realized that the shows go off without a hitch, super smooth. And of course, there have been some instances, you know, here and there, but for the most part, you can kind of feel that the energy, which is a little different. I'm sure that plays out to different things. But as far as on the creative side, these guys are talented, man.
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Right.
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Some people might not want to work with Little Dicky. I've had, you know, my first kind of experience trying to secure beats for an artist came through, you know, Lil Dicky. And at the time he just had saved that money and he's just funny. The people don't know if he's just a comedy rap kind of kind of dude. So had super high level producers refusing to send beats or kind of like, yeah, yeah, we'll send beats, but never actually send beats. And you know, I guess a year later they kind of saw what happened or two years later they see, oh, man, this guy's hit the charts every time. And so I, you know, he probably feels it too, but there definitely is that. That difference.
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B
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to ask you about that too, because I'm sure that there is probably at least certain people with power in the industry that's like, okay, what's this white boy doing? Right? And they, I'm sure, feel that. And it must be frustrating.
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And for Jay ez, I know for probably the longest time I couldn't really find a complex covering him. They wouldn't really give him that shot for whatever reason until it became clickbait, like, ah, now he's huge. So now we know that, you know, that our ads are going to do well if we just put his name up there. And it's like, okay, but while this artist is grinding and trying to get to this place in the culture, you kind of have shut that door. I did notice that as well.
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B
For G Eazy specifically. Was it. I forget the name of the album. Was it the album that, like when it's dark out. Yeah, when it's.
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A
Yes. And that's, that's when I met him. Okay. So, you know, I had met his, one of his managers, Jamil Davis, through Twitter. And that's kind of how I transitioned from being a college student who thought he had a future in merchandising retail to career in music. You know, I ended up volunteering for Jamil at some music festivals. He was a tour manager for Drake, so I helped him out OVO fest. And then I would just kind of stalk him. I would fly to different cities that I knew he would be at because he was on tour with Drake at the time. And so after a few months of that, it kind of just went quiet. And so here I am now with this big dream of moving to LA and becoming a manager and working in music, and the only person I know isn't responding back to me. So this is like October 2014, November, there are no more concerts. December 2014, January 2015, February 2015. Then March comes And I get a call from a Dubai number, and I'm like, who's trying to scam me from Dubai? And I'll never forget this call. Jamil calls and says, hey, this is Jermeel. I'm in Dubai with Drake, but are you still in Atlanta? And I'm like, yeah, I'm still in Atlanta. I'm still in school, trying to figure it out in my head. And he's like, all right, cool. My artist, G Eazy, is coming to Atlanta to start recording second album. He's going to be down there with my co manager, Matt. I want you to meet those guys and help them with whatever they need. And at the time, I'm like, I don't know what a G Eazy is. I don't know who that is. Did he say Jeezy and.
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B
Right. Yeah, because you're in Atlanta at the.
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A
Time trying to figure out, you know, and so I'm like, okay, whatever. Whatever is going to help me continue to be in the circle of music. Sure. I'll jump at any opportunity. And so I ended up in the studio with them his first week working on that project. And so I essentially became their assistant that week. And, you know, I would do their wash, get their wash and fold on any restaurant recommendations. I would kind of pretty much be their ears on the ground in Atlanta and just connecting with different people here and there. And so in the studio, I remember him hearing me, myself and I for the first time, and him writing his verses and cutting the first version of that song in Atlanta. And the thought that he had. And when he looked up and said, yo, I think this song is going to change my life. Are you ready for this next year? Because this is going to be the one. And he knew that. And then he recorded, I think, maybe two or three other songs that one week.
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B
Be Myself and I. That's the one with Halsey.
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Yeah, with B.B. rex.
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B
Oh, B.B. rex. Okay. Was she in the studio as well?
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A
She wasn't. He'd gotten, you know, the file. They sent it over, and he recorded. And I heard it, and I was like, wow. So that was the first time I'd ever really seen a hit recorded. And it kind of inspired me in a way that just stuck with me. Like, wow, this is the power of music. And of course, that song went on to do what it did later that year, which was crazy to see.
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B
And then you fast forward from there a few years later. It's beautiful. And the damned he has no limit Come out. You weren't involved with that, though, were you?
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A
No. So I moved to LA from Atlanta at the end of 2015. So I graduated school, went to Georgia State University, and G, Eazy's When It's Dark out album dropped and kind of coincided with my move because I thought, okay, if I don't move to LA now this guy's out of here and these, these guys around him are out of here too, and they'll find somebody to kind of replace me. Because at the time I was handling booking flights, booking hotels, handling logistics. You know, I was essentially an assistant tour manager. And so I moved to LA and ended up sleeping on G's couch for the first six months. And, you know, that's my brother for life. You know, he didn't have to do that. But that was, you know, probably one of the biggest things I think that needed to happen in my story. Because six months after I moved to la, because I was moving around with everybody, I was reached out about Little Dicky. And so I became, began this career in tour managing because I felt like, okay, this is the quickest way for me to make up for not having as much experience in this game is everyone around me and I'm still able to get in the same rooms, I'm still able to travel around, meet different people, connect with different people. And so that's kind of what started that and then made in Tokyo his rise. He moved from Atlanta to LA and they needed somebody to move from around. So I just became, you know, essentially tour manager for him and private club, you know, it was 24 hours Salma Slims. And those were some of the best times for me, especially just getting in because I was everywhere, I was up on everything and kind of kept that hustle that I had in me because as a tour manager, you got to go from tour to tour. You know, you don't kind of get an off season to kind of relax. It's like, okay, well if you relax, then how are you going to pay your bills? You know, I did that up until it kind of caught up with me. And that's where mental health is super important. And I think a lot of people in my position who are just chasing, you know, you're just starting out, so you feel like there's no way you can take a break. You're just chasing, you're grinding, you haven't figured all out. And then you wake up one day like, I'm exhausted. Don't feel good. Here I am two years into this dream and I'm not happy. And then you're like, wow, I sacrificed all of this to end up here.
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B
What adjustments did you make, man?
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A
I think I made a list. I made a list of things I wanted to do to change the way I thought about things. And some of those things were cutting out alcohol. I wanted to be very conscious. Not that I had a drinking problem per se, but I, you know, you're at a party, especially music, there's an open bar at every event. You don't even think about drinking. You're just going to the open bar, getting a drink and that's it. And so I wanted to be able to control those thoughts instead of getting alcohol and grab a ginger ale, just change the perspective. And then also becoming a vegetarian. Now I have to think about what I'm eating, what I'm drinking. And so that I think helped with coming out of, you know, this place that I felt I fell into. And then changing the way I wake up in the morning, instead of going straight to the text, I'll wake up and, you know, say a prayer, take a few deep breaths, you know, brush my teeth, stretch, grab some food, eat breakfast.
- [24:05]
B
Having a healthy routine.
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A
Yeah, having a healthy routine. Spending time with myself and knowing how I feel about the day before I go. Give my energy out as a creative person or as an A and R person that works with creatives. I'm pouring into cups, but I can't forget to pour into my own cup. So, yeah, changing the way I start my mornings help me conquer the day. And then from there, you know, a few other habits like going to the gym. And so now I have an hour that I dedicate to just clear my mind because your mind is on go.
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B
It's important and I think especially for someone in your role. The conversation about mental health and rest has been frequent for people on tour, but we often talk about the artist. We don't necessarily talk about someone like you who is in many ways giving themselves just as much, if not more because you have to worry about someone else's well being before you can even think about yourself.
- [25:00]
A
My last tour I had to manage nine, 10 other people. Getting everybody on the tour bus after the show so we can make it to the next city. That's another 10 hour drive. Making sure everybody's eating for the day, making sure everybody got to shower when we got to the city, making sure everything that we've advanced with the venue is there once we get there, making sure we have a good show. And then I'm dealing with, of course, all the things that surround having a Good show. I'm dealing with the next show and then I'm dealing with the lives of everybody on my tour bus. So if the artist is going through something in his life or her life, and essentially I'm the therapist, I'm the therapist. I'm the person that gets a lot of that and so that's a lot of weight to take on. Mix that with not sleeping, not eating properly. It's a stress filled environment. You can imagine what that does to people. And so, yeah, I, I totally, totally value tour managers and assistants and anybody who keeps the lights on because I know what they go through. I think that's why it's very important for me to have done that because I've been on the tour bus. When an artist has said, I don't want to do the show, what do you mean? We just drove 10 hours. No, I don't want to do the show. I mean, they've been promoting, they, you know, this is a radio show. So if we don't do this radio show, you got another single coming out. And so I've been able to get an artist on stage after they said they didn't want to do the show. And you learn so much from those experiences. And it wasn't until I look back recently where I'm like, oh, wow, okay. I was an assistant, so then I could understand why we need certain things. When we got on the road. I was a tour manager to now. So I was a tour manager so I could understand artist relations in a sense, how artists think and how to get an artist from point A to point B without having to tell them move, you know. And then later into the journey, after I tour, after I stopped tour managing, another change I made was to just get off the road. I had to get off the road essentially because mentally I just couldn't do it anymore. And so I started managing a producer who goes by Business Boy. Managing Business Boy taught me how to put sessions together, how to put creatives together, which essentially led to being able to understand, okay, here's an artist who's. We can go back to a lil Nas X. He's breaking out. How do I help surround this person with the creatives to help continue and push his sound. And so Managing Business Boy taught me all of that. And because as a manager you are responsible for somebody's livelihood, you are responsible for, you know, if he goes to a session that I set up and the five is off, the person's a jerk, you know, even though they're so accomplished, I'm going to hear about it. He's going to call me after the session like, hey, bro, don't ever put me in that kind of situation again. Like never again. And so you start, of course, trial and error. You start understanding. Okay, I know why this. Because the ego's okay. Cool.
- [28:03]
B
I'm glad you brought up the difference with managing a producer versus managing a artist. Do you think the same is true with the highest, most well known producers? Like, say you were managing Mike Will. Do you think it would be similarly like, okay, this is a bit more steady. It's less chaotic than managing an equivalently famous rapper as Mike Will was a producer.
- [28:26]
A
Well, I think I always compare managing a producer to walking around the holiday party with a tray of cookies. Hey, would you like some cookies? No, you don't want to. Okay. Here, you know, you're kind of just providing service. You know, everybody wants Mike Will and or whoever that producer is. And so you're able to kind of just, you know, facilitate. But I think as an artist manager, you're asking for a lot of favors. Yo, let me get this feature. Yo, let me get this. Or, you know, the sponsor. And you kind of constantly going to people.
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B
So talk a little bit more about the skills that you need to do one versus the other since you have experience doing both.
- [29:05]
A
Well, I think as a producer manager, you have to understand how to move somebody around who may not have a well known name yet. And so that comes with really understanding what this person brings to the studio, what they bring to every specific situation that you might put them in. You know, for example, I knew business boy, he had already been on all of these new artists. And so for me it was realizing, okay, this is, this is an angle, this is positioning, because that allows me to kind of piggyback off something. He's already doing something that he enjoys to do. He loves developing new artists. When he got a chance to work with Black on the first album that came because somebody played him, maybe the first single Black had released, and he said, okay, I want to be involved. That's it. He didn't have to see the views, the plaques. He was just like, I want to develop and help this person develop. So you take those, I guess, differentiators and you try and align with people that can help. So I started reaching out to the different a RS Business boy is an unpublished producer. So we reached out to all the publishers and said, hey, you know, I have this producer. We love working with new artists, we love developing, working with new writers, producers. And so we Just got in the studio five to six days a week and that allowed us to meet everybody. We met the engineers, we met the A and Rs, the A and R assistants, we met the studio owners, we met the studio managers. And that set up Business Boy to have an environment where now in 2019, he's still unpublished, doesn't have to do a publishing deal if he doesn't want to, because he's created this system where he's developed and worked with so many new artists on this third tier, this bottom tier, that some of those have become artists who are now in the second tier or artists who now are on this top tier, this first tier, so on and so forth. So it's like this ecosystem and the.
- [31:10]
B
Way the industry is structured, it's built in a way where if you start off, the people that you are working with will grow with you and then you all develop and build and you can cross pollinate relationships there.
- [31:23]
A
But I think it goes back to the people that you work with. You know, the egos. I'm thankful and I'm happy to work with people who check their egos at the door because it's really about creating. It's really about helping push, you know, music and the culture forward. Because we have a responsibility not to just be in this place, but to not take up space.
- [31:43]
B
Right.
- [31:43]
A
You know?
- [31:43]
B
Right, right.
- [31:44]
A
Which is a conversation I have a lot with some of my peers, definitely.
- [31:48]
B
So talk to me about working with Beyonce and her team. You had helped work with the AR team for Brown Eyed Girl, right?
- [31:57]
A
Brown Skin Girl.
- [31:58]
B
Brown Skin Girl, which was on the gift. What was it like there?
- [32:02]
A
It's funny, I didn't step foot in the studio. I reached out to a good friend of mine, Miriel, who works as an A R for Parkwood, and said, hey, I'm hearing rumblings about camp that you guys may or may not be doing right. You know, everything.
- [32:18]
B
You heard what was going on and.
- [32:19]
A
Then you started poking 100 everything is. It's a tight operation, NDAs, the whole thing. But I kind of heard from a producer of mine, Michael Uzuru. Super talented producer. He's produced things like Nights, My friend Goshen, a bunch of other things. And so he wanted to get involved. And so I reached out and said, hey, you know, I have this producer. Michael would love to get him involved. He's Nigerian, you know, he's super talented. And she made it happen. And so I was able to just connect them directly. And Michael went in and from what he told me, you know, the experience was life changing. You know, Beyonce was able to put together an environment where so many creatives came from all different parts of the world and they were just working. And I think we might have shut down Michael's calendar for about a month and a half, two months. So we heard about this project coming out in May, late May, early May, and then I think by July, it might have been. It might have come out. And he went to the studio every single day. And that's the brilliance of some of the people I get to work with, because you can't really want it for anybody more than they want it for themselves. So even though I only set up, I only set up one session. I said, hey, if you give him your shot, you know he'll be there on time. He went every single day until the last week that they were recording. And it wasn't until that last week where he got to contribute to songs. The two songs he was on the project, Brown Skin Girl and Mood Forever. And that just goes to show you that nothing is really handed to you. You know, you might have this incredible opportunity to be part of this camp, but that doesn't mean you make an album. You know, you take those experiences and you take those lessons. But for him, he was just resilient, man. And one of the stories that stuck out, so when he was in the studio, they were telling him that, hey, there's this writer, you know, they're working on this song. Can you engineer? Michael doesn't engineer at all. He does not engineer. But his instinct told him to say, sure, of course, I got it, no problem. Because that's how you keep yourself in the game. You learn, you adapt, you figure it out later. And so what they were working on was actually brown skinned girls. So they already had the hook, they had the idea, the beat, and they were finishing up maybe a second verse. And so he was able to contribute to that second verse because he took that opportunity. He didn't end up tracking any vocals. They didn't actually record anything. They just wrote and he had the beat on the loop. That was it. And so he was able to contribute lines to that. But, you know, my job and all that is just to help provide that opportunity. And whether they deliver, whether a writer, producer, artist delivers, you know, that's usually on the situation and on them, but, you know, that's just one example of somebody going above and beyond.
- [35:12]
B
So, last couple of questions before we let you go. As an anr, I'd love to get your perspective on the DJ Khaled versus Tyler the Creator album competition to see who sold the most. And of course DJ Khaled was upset. Upset about the fact that a lot of his albums didn't count, but less that, but more. A lot of people tried to talk about it as this moment of someone that is putting together a project as an ep, the way that Khalid versus the complete opposite of that being a self created directed project like Tyler the creator put out. What's your take on that narrative?
- [35:53]
A
Well, for me, I think it's really just goes down to how we count albums. If a label finds out how to partner with Popeyes and while Popeyes is selling all these, you know, chicken sandwiches, is that going to be the future of what this is? My opinion on that is we have to really figure out how this pushes everything forward. Shouldn't be putting people against each other on release days because we need DJ Khaled his music as much as we need Tyler creators. It puts creatives in a position where now they have to really think about the things that they're doing outside of just making music, which in our culture we know that could start to feel like selling out in a way. So.
- [36:40]
B
Well, you mentioned something earlier and I guess let's actually talk about that. You mentioned Popeyes Chicken. Do you think that that type of partnership is the future of what artists may choose to do?
- [36:52]
A
Who knows? Who knows? We have this no limit, I think, to the bundling now that it's become a thing. Unless they start really figuring that out.
- [37:03]
B
Do you think it makes album sales less or more meaningful? Because I think some people feel like it makes it less meaningful if you are just tying it to the best promotion deal. But on the other hand, it's kind of part of the game.
- [37:16]
A
Oh, absolutely. You know, you can't just. I always tell people this. It's only maybe 30 to 40% about the music. And then of course you have everything else that comes and that supports the music. The tours, the promo opportunities, the radio shows, you know, the bundling, you know, it's all part of where we're at in 2019. I was just poking fun at the whole Popeyes Chicken thing, but.
- [37:41]
B
Right. I know you meant it as a joke, but it started shocking my memory. Memory as you were, as you were saying that. Is there anyone that sticks out that you're like the content, the album was amazing, but if they played the game a little bit more, they could have sold a lot more records or they could have been in the top five record sales or one of those discussions for the Year.
- [38:03]
A
I think when that sticks out. Not that they did or didn't do anything wrong. YBN Cordae. But he said something important, which I think a lot of artists should also focus on. He said it's not about the sales first week for him because he understands the kind of legacy he wants to build. His fans, I think, are supporting him from the ground level right now. And as he continues to grow, more people are going to find his music, and it'll be, I think, that much more meaningful to his story, especially starting off as a new artist to not really focus on all the other gimmicks when you were trying to be around in 10 years. You know, Drake said it best. Who's gonna be around a decade from now? Like, we'll see. And so he's one of those artists. And so the fact that he didn't have to do and the fact that he felt he didn't have to sell first week said something extremely. It was just loud, you know, Loud and clear. He knows his place in the game. He knows he's gonna be here regardless of first week.
- [39:02]
B
And he still ended up getting many of those type of opportunities too. He was on SNL performing, and then he did the Funk Flex freestyle that blew up everywhere. So you still get those opportunities, even if you don't get the earned media from number two, number three, number one on the Billboard list.
- [39:22]
A
Absolutely. So shout out to him. Shout out to all the other artists as well, who are participating and being proactive because they're building their businesses outside of music. Because for some artists, it's just a vehicle.
- [39:36]
B
Dreamville has been a big push of this as well. Pretty much everyone outside of Cole is like, no, you're releasing off cycle. We're not doing this.
- [39:43]
A
Yeah. I think what they've built is so special, man. You know, you look across all the other artists founded labels, I think Dreamville is. They're allowing their artists to develop and grow.
- [39:53]
B
I'm curious to see where it goes from here. So who's on your wish list, man? I know you've been able to cross a lot with your work as both a manager and as an A and R now, but who have you not worked with yet that if you heard something going on, you would poke and be like, let me try to get on that project?
- [40:09]
A
Well, for me, I guess I have to start thinking about that now because for me, last year, towards the end of last year, I had a goal, like a personal goal to work with the artists that were already signed to the publishing company. Umpg, and some of those artists are like J. Cole, who we got a chance to work with. Chris Brown. He just dropped the repackage to Indigo. YG her. I guess going into this new year, I want to work with the next up, you know, the, the Baby Keems, the Ice Cold Bishops, the Baby Roses, you know, because I think these artists are going to be the future. Yeah, I want to kind of start pivoting kind of back towards artists. So I started working with artists on their management teams, tour managing artists. Then I kind of went back to the producer or went to the producer, songwriter side of things. Now that I understand how to connect the dots between them, I want to help push the next wave of artists forward because I find it as, you know, a producer, writer, as A and R, it's kind of easy in a sense. It's easier to give Taylor Swift another hit. It's not really remarkable when you can take an artist that nobody's really heard about yet and be part of building that story. That to me is where is where the purpose and why I do all this lies. It's like, how can I help change the lives of other musicians? In a way that music has changed my life because it's not a, you know, it wasn't. It's a privilege for me to be in the space, to be able to help create something meaningful that, like I said earlier, will help push the culture. So, yeah, that's kind of where I want to go with it.
- [42:03]
B
Makes sense. Anything that our audience should know about before we let you go?
- [42:08]
A
I think, you know, you wrote an impressive article about this, the ownership, you know, I think it was the Chance the Rapper ownership article. And I think I want people to just be as informed as they can about everything, you know, because I think a lot of artists, a lot of companies do a really good job of telling a truth, but they might not tell the whole truth. I think it's for everybody, you know, listening to figure out what that whole truth is in regards to ownership, taking certain deals or taking certain opportunities. Like just know the whole story because I think that's really important. And that's kind of where you find the freedom to decide, should I do this or should I not do this? I don't think it's, you know, fair for people to just try and follow one career or one guideline or outline for doing things. I think they have to know the whole truth.
- [43:04]
B
Agreed. 100 I'm glad you brought that up. I actually got into an argument with someone fairly well known that Everyone listening to this podcast knows about that article.
- [43:15]
A
Sorry about that.
- [43:15]
B
It was. It was. I mean, it was all in good nature. We're going back and forth, but. No, thanks for coming, man. Appreciate it.
- [43:23]
A
Thank you for having me, man. I think it's. You know, I was telling you this earlier. I think it's super important that you have this platform because I'm having these conversations at the lunches and the dinners and the meetings that I get to attend, being on the inside of the situation. But it's rare that you hear these conversations and you read these articles that mirror these conversations outside of them. And I think that helps in people finding the whole truth about things. So thank you for putting this all together.
- [43:52]
B
Likewise.
- [43:52]
A
And the work you do.
- [43:53]
B
No, appreciate it. That's why it's good to have people like you on the pod that understand this and can, you know, continue to spread the word. All right, James supreme, it's been a pleasure.
- [44:02]
A
Peace and love. Thank you.
- [44:04]
B
If you enjoyed this trapital podcast, please tell one friend about this podcast. Go ahead and go to trapital.co. check it out. Stay tuned, and I'll see y' all next week.