Trapital Podcast Summary

Episode: "Talent Agencies: Who Leads the Next Era?"

Host: Dan Runcie
Guest: Ben Cesario (New York Times reporter)
Date: March 30, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan Runcie and longtime New York Times music industry reporter Ben Cesario break down the rapidly evolving world of talent agencies in entertainment, sports, and music. The conversation centers on the recent turmoil at the formerly-named Wasserman Agency (now "the Team") following Casey Wasserman's departure, the broader implications for the agency business, shifting industry leadership, and how money and tech are transforming the landscape. They discuss M&A (mergers & acquisitions), branding, and the enduring power structure of agencies, considering what the future may hold.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Wasserman/“the Team” Situation

• Background: Casey Wasserman steps down due to his name appearing in the Epstein files; agency rebrands as "the Team" and is put up for sale.
• M&A Buzz: Over 100 buyers showed initial interest, with at least 10 signing NDAs.
• Valuation & Financials:
  • Aiming for a $2 to $4 billion sale (15x EBITDA); $990M in revenue, $185M EBITDA, but burdened with $800M debt. ([00:04-06:43])
• Brand Impact:
  • “There’s just so much brand recognition tied to it … it’s literally your last name. And this last name, you know, his grandfather is the mogul that built Hollywood, modern Hollywood as we know it in Lou Wasserman, right?” — Dan Runcie (06:43)
  • Artists attached to the scandal left, e.g., Chapel Roan.
• Nature of Agency Business:
  • Artists tend to follow their agents rather than the firm itself.
  • “Artists often have a very close relationship with their agent … they like the person who handles their bookings.” — Ben Cesario (05:15)
• Sale Dynamics:
  • Will the sale be for the entire agency or just Casey's stake (about 29%)?
  • Buyers likely to be financial (private equity) rather than strategic (another agency) due to regulatory concerns. ([07:00-08:50])

2. M&A and Private Equity in Agency Business

• Rise of Private Equity:
  • Agencies have become attractive to financial buyers due to the influx of tech money and the potential for leveraging talent across new verticals (branding, marketing, etc.).
  • “It’s been pretty sexy for a while now for private equity to get into the agency business.” — Ben Cesario (08:50)
• Synergy as a Sales Point:
  • The full-service nature (sports, music, Hollywood, marketing) is seen as essential to maintaining agency value. Spinning off segments would diminish the asking price.
  • “I think the selling price would be dramatically lowered if part of it was spun off from the whole.” — Ben Cesario (10:13)
• Deal Uncertainty:
  • Unclear control dynamics (minority vs majority stakes) could deter some buyers.
  • Regulatory ambiguity (especially under varying antitrust enforcement).

3. Industry Shifts: Leadership & the Changing Guard

• Leadership Transitions:
  • Major shifts at CAA (Lucy Dickens joining as Managing Director from WME), and UTA (Jeremy Zimmer stepping down) signal generational change.
  • Agencies morphing from being led by a singular mogul to more distributed/co-CEO models, reflecting the size and complexity of the modern agency.
  • “It does feel like there is this changing of the guard … less of that central key figure who is looked at as leading everything.” — Dan Runcie (18:00)

4. The Hierarchy: Sports, Hollywood, and Music

• Relative Power & Revenue:
  • Sports contracts bring in more money for agencies than music, despite the boom in live music.
  • Music departments, while lucrative, are still seen as “stepchildren” compared to film and TV talent.
  • “Music is kind of a stepchild there … they tend to be secondary to the actors and directors, the people who walk the red carpet at the Oscars. That’s where the power is.” — Ben Cesario (20:38)

5. Artist Leverage & Agency Value

• Big Artists Take More In-House:
  • The biggest touring artists (Taylor Swift, Paul McCartney, Beyoncé, Jay-Z) increasingly negotiate sweetheart deals as agencies compete and sometimes settle for less than the traditional 10% commission.
  • “If you’re an artist making hundreds of millions on tour, it just becomes a little harder to justify 10% of $700 million to the person who booked the dates.” — Ben Cesario (22:38)
• Agency Vulnerability:
  • Loss of top talent can trigger “death spiral” scenarios for agencies, unlike labels or promoters who own more underlying IP or contracts.

6. Secrecy, Reputation, and the Next Chapter

• Opaque Industry:
  • Unlike public record labels or studios, agencies are secretive—little reporting on internal structures, ownership, or dealmaking, “a lot of it is hidden … it's all unsourced, anonymous gossip.” — Ben Cesario (27:34)
• Casey Wasserman’s Future:
  • His name still holds major Hollywood legacy value; potential for a narrative turnaround post-LA Olympics.
  • “The Wasserman name is about as famous a name in Hollywood as Clark Gable or Sinatra.” — Ben Cesario (26:54)

7. Industry Predictions

• Who Will Own The Team?:
  • Ben Cesario predicts a private equity firm “with a totally bland name” will buy “the Team.”
  • “It’ll be the kind of name that average people have never heard of. But if you Google, you see, wow, $3 trillion. And they own the shirt I’m wearing and they own my house.” — Ben Cesario (28:42)
  • Dan Runcie speculates Goldman Sachs could win the deal.
• The Real Question:
  • What will that private equity buyer do—hold, flip, merge, or take public?

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Artists often have a very close relationship with their agent. They're often loyal to the person who is their agent ... they like the person who handles their bookings."
  — Ben Cesario (05:15)

• "There’s just so much brand recognition tied to it ... it’s literally your last name. And this last name—his grandfather is the mogul that built Hollywood."
  — Dan Runcie (06:43)

• "It’s been pretty sexy for a while now for private equity to get into the agency business. ... It would probably be a sale of the whole company as opposed to like splitting off the music division."
  — Ben Cesario (08:50)

• "Music is kind of a stepchild there ... they tend to be secondary to the actors and directors ... that’s where the power is."
  — Ben Cesario (20:38)

• "If you’re an artist making hundreds of millions on tour, it just becomes a little harder to justify 10% of $700 million to the person who booked the dates."
  — Ben Cesario (22:38)

• "Unlike, say, the studios or the big record companies ... the inner workings of those agencies is sort of hidden ... a lot of it is hidden."
  — Ben Cesario (27:34)

• "Who owns the team a year from now? I think it’ll be a private equity company with a totally bland name ... the kind that average people have never heard of."
  — Ben Cesario (28:42)

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---|---|---| | Intro & Wasserman overview | Agency turmoil and sales process | 00:04–06:43 | | Agency loyalty and brand | Importance of agent relationships | 06:43–08:50 | | M&A and private equity insight | Buyer types, deal structure | 08:50–12:34 | | Sports, branding and margin | Multi-hyphenate value, marketing | 12:34–14:14 | | Agency hierarchy | Music vs. sports vs. Hollywood | 18:00–22:15 | | Artist leverage examples | Tour deals: Taylor, Beyoncé, Jay-Z | 22:15–25:28 | | Leadership transitions | New era, distributed leadership | 18:00–21:21 | | Industry opacity | Lack of transparency in agencies | 27:34–28:30 | | Predictions | Who acquires “the Team” | 28:30–29:29 |

Summary

This episode of Trapital unpacks a transformative moment for the global talent agency landscape, triggered by Casey Wasserman's exit amidst scandal and the subsequent sale of the rebranded “the Team.” Dan and Ben dive deep into how agency business models, leadership, and valuation have shifted in an era increasingly shaped by tech, private equity, and the evolving leverage of star talent. They chart the ongoing “changing of the guard,” the persistent power of Hollywood above music in agency hierarchies, and the growing trend of artists commanding record-breaking deals beyond traditional agency commissions. With major sales looming and new leadership rising, the discussion paints a complex portrait of an industry steeped in legacy but undergoing unprecedented change.