Trapital Podcast Summary

Episode: Udio CEO Andrew Sanchez on AI’s Future in Music

Host: Dan Runcie
Guest: Andrew Sanchez, CEO & Co-founder of Udio
Date: October 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode, recorded at the Trapital Summit, brings together Dan Runcie and Andrew Sanchez to explore AI’s rapidly evolving impact on music creation, business models, and cultural shifts. Sanchez shares his vision for Udio, the creative possibilities AI unlocks, how the industry can move forward through dialogue, and the challenges of establishing fair business and legal frameworks for AI-generated music. Notably, Sanchez’s academic background in studying societal responses to technological change provides a unique, measured perspective on AI’s disruptive force and potential.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Living at the Crossroads of Disruption

[03:00] Andrew Sanchez:

• Udio sits at the intersection of art, culture, technology, and humanity.
• Sanchez draws on his doctorate work examining “how societies respond to high levels of technological changes,” shaping his approach to Udio’s mission.
• The environment is thrilling yet challenging, balancing the burden of building something that works for artists, users, the music industry, and society.

“We want to build something that is incredibly empowering for people. I’m very conscious of the fact that building something that works for artists and users and the music industry and culture more generally is a big burden.”
— Andrew Sanchez [03:27]

2. Lessons from Tech History: Tension Breeds Progress

[04:59] Andrew Sanchez:

• Historically, tech innovation prompts resistance: tech players push for progress, incumbents defend the status quo.
• True advancement and new business models emerge from the dialogue and tension between these camps.

“It’s when you arrive at a compromise between the two that you actually come up with ... new business models that figure out a way for AI to ensure that artists and rights holders and users and everybody else benefits ... both from a cultural perspective, but also from a financial one.”
— Andrew Sanchez [05:36]

3. Udio’s Unique Value Proposition and Vision

[06:41] Andrew Sanchez:

• AI music “1.0” has found a niche among creators and advanced amateurs for kickstarting ideas.
• The future lies in co-creation experiences—facilitating new artist-fan interactions and enabling fans to do things “currently impossible.”
• The real opportunity is augmentation, not substitution—AI should not just replace existing works but help create entirely new experiences.

“Rather than replacing things that exist, doing things that we’ve never been able to do before.”
— Dan Runcie [08:17]

• Udio aims to empower both serious creators and music lovers who may not have technical skills, envisioning experiences that bring fans closer to artists in novel ways.

4. Differentiators: Thoughtfulness, Joy, Quality

[11:19] Andrew Sanchez:

• Udio is built on:
  1. Thoughtfulness & Cooperation: Prioritizing partnerships and cultural understanding.
  2. Joy & Fun: Fostering a love for music through new creation and consumption experiences.
  3. Quality: Setting a high bar for technological and musical output—striving to be partners with the world’s best artists and rights holders.

“We love making music and we want to make sure that everybody can do that.”
— Andrew Sanchez [12:37]

5. Business Models & Monetization Evolution

[14:57] Andrew Sanchez:

• The default model has been subscriptions for creation, but Sanchez envisions:
  • Transactional models: One-off song purchases.
  • Gamification: Engaging, interactive features drawing on principles from the gaming industry, monetizing the long tail and deeper user engagement.
• Success will be judged by the emergence of “new experiences ... that drive revenue streams to artists, rights holders, and users.”

“The gaming industry ... has done very well in monetizing the long tail of heavy users ... by coming up with new interesting interactions for users to get more out of the value.”
— Andrew Sanchez [16:24]

6. Legal Tensions & Building a Fair System

[18:27] Andrew Sanchez:

• The “elephant in the room”: lawsuits, licensing, and legal precedent.
• Udio’s goal: developing an equitable framework ensuring AI innovations financially and culturally benefit creators and industry stakeholders.
• Sanchez rejects the notion that business/legal barriers slow progress—he sees dialogue as essential for sustainable advancement and new collaboration opportunities.

“I don’t view any of that challenge as an impedance. I view it as something, it’s an interesting problem for us to address that we’re deeply committed to addressing.”
— Andrew Sanchez [20:13]

7. Building Trust with the Creative Community

[21:20] Andrew Sanchez:

• Udio actively seeks direct engagement with artists (“call me, get in touch”) and has found these conversations vital for trust and product feedback.
• Notably, top producers sometimes value the “mistakes” in AI outputs, using them for creative breakthroughs.

“One ... producer said, ‘I think the model is good, but it makes mistakes 10% of the time. And it’s the mistakes that are the actually interesting part.’”
— Andrew Sanchez [21:56]

8. The Forgiveness vs. Permission Dilemma in Startups

[23:30] Andrew Sanchez:

• Sanchez critiques the historic standoff between music and tech: “arrogance” on the tech side and resistance on the incumbent side.
• He advocates humility, constant dialogue, and an openness to learning from artists and industry partners—eschewing top-down solutions.

“Anybody who wants to predict the future in AI right now, like if somebody is confidently predicting that future, you should, you know, grab your wallet.”
— Andrew Sanchez [23:53]

9. Vision for Udio in Five Years, and Quickfire Q&A

[25:22] Andrew Sanchez:

• Udio aims to be “at the nexus of how artists and fans with their favorite music make new stuff.”
• Dreams of facilitating experiences where fans can interact creatively with their favorite artists’ work (e.g., “hear what it sounds like to have my favorite song remixed with a different genre”).
• Quickfire answers:
  • Last song listened to: “Landslide” by Fleetwood Mac [26:25]
  • Biggest myth: Pronunciation (“It’s Udo, not Udio!”) [26:29]
  • Biggest truth: Company built by music lovers [26:51]
  • Future of music in one word: “Diverse” [27:28]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It’s that tension, that dialogue between the two, that is the thing that actually is good for humans.”
  — Andrew Sanchez [05:26]

• “Having partners across the industry [is] absolutely crucial.”
  — Andrew Sanchez [14:34]

• “The future ... is when we build on co-creation experiences across users, across artists, to make stuff that currently is impossible.”
  — Andrew Sanchez [07:37]

• “We want to be the absolute leaders ... to ensure that we have this great future and ... enable new things.”
  — Andrew Sanchez [20:54]

Timeline of Key Segments

• [02:42] — Episode kicks off: Udio’s “eye of the storm” position
• [03:27] — Sanchez on the challenges and excitement at the center of disruption
• [04:59–06:19] — Lessons from tech history, embracing dialogue and tension
• [06:41–08:22] — Defining Udio’s value proposition and future use cases
• [11:19] — Udio’s differentiation: principles in action
• [14:57–17:58] — Monetization models and defining success
• [18:27–21:00] — Licensing, fair use, and the business/legal challenge
• [21:20] — How Udio builds trust with creators through open collaboration
• [23:30] — Navigating “permission vs. forgiveness” and humility in tech
• [25:13–27:28] — Vision for Udio, rapid-fire Q&A, and reflections on music’s diverse future

Summary for New Listeners

This conversation is a comprehensive dive into the complexities and opportunities AI brings to the music industry, grounded by Andrew Sanchez’s rare mix of academic wisdom and tech leadership. The episode is both candid and optimistic—addressing the real challenges (legal, ethical, artistic) while insisting that AI’s most exciting horizon is empowering creators and fans to do what was previously impossible. If you care about music, technology, or the evolving relationship between art and industry, this is essential listening.