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- [00:00]
A
Foreign I'm Dan Runcy and you're listening to Trap Ital and you're about to hear our Grammys breakdown. This is a fun collaboration that we did in partnership with the Recording Academy to do a few things, share some immediate reactions to the 2026 nominations and what do they tell us about where the Recording Academy, the Grammys, and where music itself is moving forward? There have been a ton of changes that the Recording Academy has has made over the past four to five years. We're going to get into all of that and how that shapes and impacts the results that we see, not just with the nominations, but with the awards themselves. We'll also get into the impact of the Grammy bounce, that economic lift, that bump that an artist can get, and what it means for a superstar artist, a niche artist, an emerging artist, and more because it's a little different. You'll hear us get into some key stats and research reports that were done that tackled this very question and and we'll also talk to some experts and friends of the POD that have been following the Grammys and have a ton of opinions and thoughts on this year's nominations. So we're excited to get into all that and more. So I hope you enjoy. Let's dive in. If you enjoy listening to Trapital and want to stay up on the latest about how technology is shaping our culture, then make sure you tap that star button and tap that follow button so you can listen to us and get the latest episodes and on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. We've now had a few days to digest. Read some of the immediate reactions, but first, a few key themes that stuck out. Let's talk about the international focus of these awards. Bad Bunny, who's arguably the biggest artist in the world headlining the super bowl halftime show coming up, got nominated for three of the major categories album, Record and Song of the Year. It's arguably the biggest headline and takeaway, and it's important for a few reasons. First, this could be the second year in a row where the artist that was the headline performer at the super bowl halftime show last year was Kendrick Lamar, who won Record and Song of the Year for his song Not Like Us. Bad Bunny could be in the same position this year, which highlights how aligned the Grammys have become with mainstream culture. And speaking of Kendrick Lamar, he leads the way with nine nominations this year. GNX album captured the momentum from the Drake and Kendra Lamar beef and has continued to be one in heavy rotation this year. And Lady Gaga continues her success in the massive year she had with her tour, Coachella performance and more with her Mayhem album and the lead single from that album, Abracadabra. Another key headline this year is hip hop. There were eight albums that were nominated for Album of the year, three of them are hip hop albums. Tyler the Creator's Chromacopia clip's Let God Sort Em out and Kendrick Lamar's gnx. This is the first time ever that there's been three rap albums that were nominated for Album of the Year category. And the news comes at a very timely moment, just weeks after Billboard reported that for the first time in 35 years, there was no rap song that was in the top 40 of the Billboard Hot 100 chart. When Billboard reported that stat, every outlet picked it up because for whatever reason, people love to talk about hip hop's quote unquote demise. But like we've said here in Trap Ital before and other places, every outlet, every organization in music has their own methodology, has their own entity. So we can't just look at one platform and have a sweeping narrative on what that means for an entire genre. Whether it's Billboard or Spotify's top playlist, or the Grammys and the Recording Academy nominations or others, there are plenty of signs that can show the strength of a genre, and I'd argue that this one, especially with artists like Kendrick and Tyler the Creator and clips show that hip hop may arguably be as strong as it's ever been. And to continue the trend of the cultural relevance that we see from this year's Grammys, there are songs of the K Pop Demon Hunter soundtrack, songs by Dochi and others that were played consistently and continue to be played consistently. The Recording Academy has made it clear this is not your uncle's Grammys. This is not your uncle's Recording Academy, and we're going to get into all of that in a minute. But there is one thing to note. As culturally relevant and tapped into mainstream culture as these Grammy nominations seem and seemingly have become year over year, country music does seem to be the one potential omission where part of that may be on the artist side with artists like Morgan Wallen and Zach Bryan, two of the most popular stars in country music today, not submitting the music that they released for Grammy consideration. We've seen recent artists do this before and we've seen the Recording Academy respond in different ways. And to talk a bit more about these Grammy nominations, what they say, what it means about the broader music ecosystem and culture, both mainstream and in niches, let's Bring on Media Research's Tati Sirisano. All right, so we're checking in with our friend of the pod, Tati Sirisano. Tati, welcome.
- [05:06]
B
Hello.
- [05:07]
C
Hello.
- [05:07]
B
Thank you. This feels like a phone a friend segment, and I love it.
- [05:11]
A
It's a lifeline. So my lifeline question to you is, what were your thoughts? Grammy nominations are now out and live. What do you think?
- [05:19]
B
Yeah, at least in the big four, a lot of it sort of made sense and was what I expected. The main outlier, that was Leon Thomas with album of the year made me want to listen more to that album, actually, because I know him like most people, probably mainly from the hit song Mutt. Otherwise, it was a lot of what I expected. I think that what came to mind, though, immediately for me was just comparing to last year's, because I don't know how you felt, Dan. I can't remember. I'm sure that we caught up on this, but I can't remember what your feelings were. I felt like last year's awards ceremony felt more sort of of the moment and sort of culturally resonant than many award shows in years past where it felt like there was this dawn of these new stars. We had this amazing performance from Chapel and her new artist win and speech. We had Jochi's performance. I was like falling out of my chair. It was amazing. Kendrick sweeping that. Obviously being so connected to this cultural moment that was very much still happening. It just felt so of the moment. And I think that with this year's nominations, I don't necessarily feel that way. And I almost feel like with a lot of the artists, with the exception of Bad Bunny, who's obviously on a historic sort of run, with most of the artists here, I sort of feel like their big cultural moment we're a little bit removed from at this point. Sabrina Carpenter, Van Child, from my perspective, didn't have as much of a splash culturally as Short and Sweet did Hendrick. He's the most nomed artist, right?
- [06:53]
A
Yeah, he had nine.
- [06:54]
B
Yeah. I'm super excited to see all those nominations. We feel a little bit removed from the cultural moment that drove that album and the excitement around it. So you hear it everywhere, but don't you feel like the cultural moment around it were a bit removed from.
- [07:09]
A
I guess if you're looking at it through the lens of the Drake and Kendrick beef, then yes. That album, though, does have some legs, I do feel.
- [07:18]
B
Oh, absolutely.
- [07:20]
A
That still feels like it's in the. In the mix for sure.
- [07:23]
B
But I guess the reason I Bring this up is because it feels like, especially with the big four, the winners tend to not just have crazy streaming numbers and a lot of like commercial success, but also have this narrative, this story and this cultural moment alongside it. It just feels like in comparison to last year, like some of these cultural moments feel a little bit like they happened already. But I don't think that's necessarily like a negative note on the industry or any of these artists. I think it's just like the natural cycle of things.
- [07:57]
A
Yeah, two things come to mind. First, last year specifically with the Grammys, but overall for 2024 was an all time year for pop music. I think both the legacy artists and the newer artists made some pretty big statements, and I think it is one of those that will probably be looked back and remembered in a lot of ways fondly. Last year's Grammy specifically was the first that truly felt like, oh, there is a new voting body that is in place and this is what it looks like. Obviously these changes had taken some time to be put in place, but if you'd have asked me at the beginning of the year, record, song and album going to Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar and Beyonce, respectively, I probably would have said, oh, the odds of that are probably like 1 in 20 at best. Not because it wasn't Azarian, but just because of what you're historically used to with this. I think one of the running jokes I'd often heard from people is that last year's Grammys is what it would have felt like if Kamala Harris won the 2024 presidential election, which isn't the most fair thing in the world to say, but. But, but it's funny, the voting body has changed in a lot of ways, but it can be hard to know, okay, what is a vote that is a symbol of a broader correction versus an actual decision. And by that I mean you look at the Beyonce vote for last year and that winning album of the year. I still interpret that as legacy achievement of. Okay, all right, we've missed Beyonce how many times? Let's give her this now. As opposed to yes, Cowboy Carter really being better than like, for instance, Billie Eilish's like, hit me hard and soft.
- [09:40]
B
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I wonder if Kendrick could hit the intersection of those two things where it's both an artist that maybe hasn't gotten, not maybe, who hasn't, period, gotten his flowers in recent past Grammys awards, but it's also an album that was and is critically acclaimed and commercially successful. So maybe the Grammy voters will Say, okay, it's time. Let's give Kendrick album of the year.
- [10:03]
A
I know, I know. It'll be interesting. It'll be interesting. Yeah. But, Tati, but before we let you go, any other final thoughts on this year's Grammys?
- [10:10]
B
Yeah, I think, like, two more observations real quick. I think it's cool to see the Grammys paying attention to rap music, at least in major categories, maybe more than ever. That's another one of those things that I feel like I'm taking for granted. And then I think back to years past when there was so little recognition, so it's cool to see that. But then on another note, just about genre in general. I think that with every year, it's getting harder for any institution for anyone to categorize and award music on genre lines. And that's going to be really interesting as the years go on. The running joke that I've seen about this is turnstile competing in three different genre categories connected to the same album. And there's always an artist like that. It's a really interesting challenge for the Recording Academy to navigate. So that's something that I'm always keeping an eye on. Other than that, really interested to see how things play out.
- [11:02]
A
Same here. Same here. Well, Tati, appreciate joining us.
- [11:05]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [11:07]
A
While it's hard to check every box that's out there, it's clear that these Grammy nominations and the Recording Academy's progress and the changes they've made year over year are starting to now fully be reflected. Last year was a strong side of that. We still have to see what the results look like this year, but this is the direction that things are continuing to go in. The trends in these year's nominations as well as last year's nominations and wins don't just happen by mistake. They speak to the intentional moves and changes made by the Recording Academy. And one of the big focuses was to reshape the voting body to lead to a broader range of results. The broader interpretation of that is that the results from the Grammy Awards themselves and even the nominations don't always reflect what people think should have the critical acclaim, which can lead to people having frustrations or disagreements or even questioning both the integrity and credibility of the voting body itself. The more reductive lens of that is people being frustrated that Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar and others didn't win for their masterpiece projects and bodies of work in the 2010s and even sometimes in the 2020s. And we'll talk more about that in a bit. But now a Special guest Joining us, the president of the Recording Academy, Panos Panay. Welcome to Trapital.
- [12:24]
C
Thanks. Excited to be here. You're one of my favorite podcasts.
- [12:28]
A
Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. Grammy Nominations day, what is that like for you all at the Recording Academy? I know it's a day of celebration. What do you actually do to celebrate?
- [12:39]
C
It's like Christmas morning for us. You work all year to produce an outcome that hopefully reflects what the industry and what our members consider to be excellence, if you will, in all their respective fields. And you just can't wait for the world to find out what that is.
- [13:00]
A
What were your initial thoughts when you saw the results?
- [13:02]
C
It's. It's super exciting for us. We've been working very hard certainly over the last five years to diversify our membership to ensure that ultimately the makeup of our membership would just affect the voting body that produces these nominations. And these awards reflects where the world is going, where the industry is going, where music is. And it's important for people to know that what you see as the nominations and ultimately the awards, this is a result of almost 15,000 voters which are creators, these are producers, engineers, arrangers, songwriters, performers. These folks are the lifeblood of what we call the music industry. So the nominations for us reflect this new diverse body. Seeing K Pop well represented. Of course, Bad Bunnies album having a lot of historics this particular year. Six nominations. Only the second time in history that an all Spanish album is nominated for album of the year. Of course he's represented in all three of the four major categories that we have. So for us it's really exciting because frankly it just reflects a lot of hard work that this organization has been undertaking over the last several years to diversify this, this voting body.
- [14:28]
A
Right. It seems like a lot of the intentional decisions are clearly a result of what you now see. So maybe they're not as many surprises. But I am curious, was there anything that was a surprise for you that you didn't expect to see this year but did play out with the nominations?
- [14:46]
C
I don't know if I would say there's a surprise. It's more a satisfaction that this organization and what it represents and what its mission ultimately is is now reflected in perhaps the most visible outcome of what the Recording Academy does, of what the Grammy organization does. Being the first non American born person in this particular position, I'm also delighted to see the much more again ex US global representation in so many different areas.
- [15:24]
A
Are there any areas that are still opportunities or still areas that you don't feel that the current voting body has captured that you hope they will capture in future years.
- [15:35]
C
Of course. Look, music is not static. It continues. This particular year we achieved a very important milestone and the goal that we had in having over half of our voters be women. We've also welcomed all the Latin Academy voting members into our voting body. But it's important for us that we continue to expand and diversify our voters expanding outside of the United States. So much music right now, it's produced everywhere. It's a much more global world today.
- [16:10]
A
And this is also the final year that the Grammys broadcast will be on cbs. That had been a long standing partnership for decades. Is there anything special that we should expect from the broadcast to go out with a bang with the long standing broadcast partner?
- [16:26]
C
Yeah, look, it's a bittersweet feeling, right? In so many ways we've been with CBS and we've been great partners for 50 years. That's. That's almost as old as I am in terms of the show. It's. It's too early for us to talk about it, but I can assure you that our producers are very much hard at work in terms of the performers, the presenters, the overall narrative arc, the story that we want to be telling because every show ultimately tells a story. So yeah, we're excited for this year and we're excited for the new chapter that this organization is embarking on.
- [17:02]
A
It's going to be around the corner before we know it. Well, Panos, before we let you go, is there anything else that our Trapital audience should keep up with or stay tuned on between now and the Grammys?
- [17:12]
C
Keep up for more announcements from us and you know, keep listening to Trap Ital. Seriously, it's my favorite podcast and I'm a big admirer and a fan.
- [17:23]
A
Well, thank you. I appreciate hearing that. Panos. Thanks again. Appreciate you coming on.
- [17:28]
C
Thanks, dad.
- [17:32]
A
Let's take a break for our chart metric stat of the week. Olivia Dean, one of the 2026 Grammy nominees for best new artist, has had the literal definition of hockey stick growth in her career. In April 2021 when Amazon Music named Dean its breakthrough artist of the year. Dean had just over 620,000 Spotify monthly listeners in June of 2025. That number had surpassed 7 million today in November 2025. She now has over 42.8 million monthly listeners on Spotify, which puts her in the top 100 of all artists on the platform. If you enjoy the show and want to stay ahead on the latest in this industry, Then make sure that you're signed up for the weekly trapital Newsletter. That's where it all started. We share weekly insights for tens of thousands of executives, investors and founders that are working across media, entertainment and technology. We have a link to the newsletter in our Show Notes, so tap the link, enter your email and we'll send you the next memo in your inbox. Let's go back to 2020, which doesn't feel that long ago, but that was the Grammys, where Billie Eilish had swept all four of the major categories. She won Best New Art Album of the Year, Song of the Year, and Record of the Year, the first artist to do that since Christopher Cross did it in the early 80s. But since Billie Eilish swept those awards, 73% of the voting body is completely different. I'm going to share some ballpark estimates on what the Recording Academy likely looked like back in 2020 versus what it looks like today with the most recent nominations that we just discussed. Again, these are not official numbers that came from the Recording Academy, but they are inferences that we did based on some publicly available data and from the new voting class that we've seen in using those numbers as a reference point to back into what the prior class looked like. But if we go back to the people that voted for those 2020 Grammys, around 75% of those voters were white, 66% were male, over 70% were over the age of 40, 10% identified as black, and 7% identified as Latino. But if we fast forward six years later to the voting body that just voted on these nominations for the 2026 awards and will vote on the actual awards themselves, those Grammy voters are now 64% male, 48% white, nearly 20% black, 64% of them are over the age of 40, and 11% of them are Latino. And part of that Latino growth is because the Recording Academy had specifically made it possible for a number of the people that vote for the Latin Grammys to also have a vote on the Recording Academy's broader Grammy nominations and awards. The Recording Academy did gain several thousand voters as a result of this. The current number is around 14,500. But it also removed several voters as well, specifically those that may not have released new music in the past few years, or those that have either aged out, or those that have just been there as part of a legacy process, which again can lead to some of the results that don't necessarily reflect where the culture is and where the pulse necessarily is. But beyond the stats, there's Also a few optics things that have happened with the Recording Academy as well, especially last year where we saw the Grammys bring the Weeknd on stage, who famously announced that he would be boycotting the Grammys moving forward after his album After Hours, which included Blinding Lights, the most streamed song ever in Spotify history, did not receive any nominations. The Weeknd had let his frustrations be known. He didn't feel like the Grammys had represented and respected black music. The Grammys brought him back on stage to perform a song last year, which clearly showed that there was a focus in inroads made to help build and foster and nurture that relations moving forward and recognizing the Weeknd's plight and concerns. Granted, the Weeknd's most recent album this year, Hurry Up Tomorrow, did not get any nominations from the Grammys as well. But it's fair to say that the cultural impact and the popularity of the songs to date on Hurry Up Tomorrow has yet to reach the same level of impact and popularity as the songs and the broader album After Hours from five years ago. Last year's Grammys also had Will Smith on stage to lead the tribute for Quincy Jones. Of course, Will Smith had a very close relationship with Quincy Jones, given the Fresh Prince of Bel Air TV show, which Quincy was actively involved with. But it was also a clear sign by the Grammys to feature Will on stage, given that the other major award show in American culture, the Oscars, is the show that Will Smith is still banned from for several years after the incident where he slapped Chris Rock on stage. Again, these may be small things, but it's a clear sign of how the Grammys wants to position itself, how it sees itself in the broader ecosystem and the relationships that it clearly wants to forge and develop moving forward. So we went through this hypothetical exercise that I think you'll enjoy. This is trapital. This is what we do. And my question was this. If this voting body that just voted on these awards for 2026 had existed in the 2010s and even parts of the 2020s as well, which results would have been most likely to shift? What really would have happened? Because at the end of the day, this is what we're talking about, right? When you change the voting body, you expect to see different results. And we're not going to do this. For every Grammy Award, we will focus on the big four major categories, Album of the Year, Record of the Year, Song of the Year, and Best New Artist. Which of those would have been most likely to shift? So I have a six pack for You. We're going to start at six with the six most likely to have shifted and then go all the way up to one, number six. Let's go back to the 2018 Grammy Awards where Bruno Mars wins big 24 Karat Magic does extremely well and wins the album of the year. The album was huge and well deserved. Not a question of whether or not Bruno Mars would have won record or song of the year, but would he have won album of the year? Is there a chance that Kendrick Lamar's Dam, the Pulitzer Prize winning album, would have been the one to actually win this album? This is a critically acclaimed hip hop album. Many people still see it as one of Kendrick Lamar's best. It's the one for Kendrick that leaned the most into having mainstream popular hits and shifted the perception of Kendrick Lamar. To many. The commercial success was there, the critical acclaim was there. The reason that this one is only six, though, is because Bruno Mars has been a Grammy darling for quite some time. He performed at some of those early Grammy events early in his career. He established himself. He had the super bowl performance quite early in his career as well. But all of those things help compound and help leave a lasting impression with voters because at the end of the day, this is a relationship business. And if you see someone like Kendrick hitting his apex the way that he did around that 24 karat uptown funk era with all of those hits, and then now he's having that moment, you're going to think back to him being the rising star that he was in 2009, 2010, 2011 era, and those things do matter. So it's not a slam dunk that this one would have shifted. But it's hard to ignore the critical and commercial acclaim of Kendrick's Dam Number 5, another Kendrick album, to Pimp a Butterfly. You go back two years earlier in 2016, another Kendrick Lamar album, to Pimp a Butterfly, which many people felt was its own masterpiece. An album that was taught in schools, broken down to truly hit and capture the culture with everything that was happening in the United States, specifically with regards to race relations in the black community. The album was nominated for album of the year, but ended up losing to Taylor Swift's 1989. 1989 is Taylor's most commercially successful album by far, has some of her biggest hits and along with Red, really elevated her from country pop star to true pop star, biggest artist in the world. But this same voting body that just gave Kendrick Lamar nine nominations more than any other artist for 2026, and this same voting body as well, that had just given Kendrick Lamar record and Song of the Year for a diss track against Drake in Not Like Us. Could they have awarded to Pimp A butterfly over Taylor Swift's 1989? I wouldn't be surprised, especially at this point, if Taylor Swift had already won Album of the Year for fearless back in 2010 and this likely would have been Kendrick Lamar's first win for one of the major four categories and especially album of the year number four. This is where things get interesting. We talked about 2020 before and how Billie Eilish swept all the awards. I think Best New Artist was a given and I think you can probably even give her a record or song, at least one of those as well. But Album of the Year could this voting body have voted for Lizzo's album Cause I Love youe? Because if we go back to 2019, it's hard to think of an artist that had a more meteoric rise in one year than Lizzo had from January 2019. By the time we got to December 2019, Truth Hurts, a song that she had already made well before 2019 had blown up. Lizzo was everywhere. There were multiple hit songs on that album and based on where society and popular culture was at the time, there was a lot of embracing about Lizzo, who she was, what she represented, and people wanting to see her succeed. I wouldn't have been surprised to see this academy again. This same academy that only a couple years ago had awarded Lizzo for Record of the Year for about damn time could have done the same a few years earlier than that. In 2020, Billie Eilish still would have had a big night. Maybe she doesn't sweep all four, but I could have seen this one going to Lizzo number three. This one is from 2023, just three years ago. But the voting body has still changed a lot in that time. That was the year that Harry Styles Harry's House won for Album of the Year. But the album that I think probably would have won at that point actually isn't Beyonce's Renaissance, it's Bad Bunny's Un Verano Sinti. Had Beyonce won for an earlier album, I think there'd probably be less pressure on Renaissance. But it's hard to ignore the monster commercial and critical acclaim that um, Veronto Cinti had for Bad Bunny and the entire fan base because that was an album that had monster numbers in the us. It was extremely popular in the rest of Latin America as well. That album really pushed him to another level. And Harry's house still has a number of hits that do quite well. Not that I don't think that album deserved to win, but again, this is not a reflection on what I think I but based on how this voting body votes, I could have seen this one going the other way. But here's the number two 1 the most likely could have gone the other way in 2015. Beyonce's self titled album, which comes out December 2013, ends up losing to Beck's morning phase. This is often looked at as the classic example of this older legacy Recording Academy voter that looks at the music from the legacy rock act and gives them more of a favorable vote than an album that even still many Beyonce fans still consider to be her best work. The album that was the true turning point in her career from everything that she had done up to that point. This was not Beyonce's first time being nominated for Album of the year and this was definitely not Beyonce's first solo album. But it was this award here of Beck's Morning Phase winning over Beyonce's self titled album that truly started the narrative around will or won't Beyonce win? Leading up to each of the Grammy Awards after she releases an album, which leads us to the number one major award that would have been most likely to switch hands from one to the other if the 2026 voting academy members were voting on the awards back then. It is in 2017 when Adele's album 25 won album of the year over Beyonce's Lemonade. This is the one. Adele said it herself on stage. Beyonce's masterpiece critical and commercial acclaim. And Adele has her masterpiece albums too. But even her own fans feel like the album that came before this 21 and the real Adele heads may even push for her earlier album 19, but this is the true Sliding Doors moment. It's exciting to see the work that this Recording Academy has done. I do not think the underlying goal is just to award Beyonce whenever she drops an album, but I do think that last year's awards, which ironically gave Kendrick Lamar and Beyonce people that both showed up on the list that I just said multiple times, awards and critical acclaim at the highest levels did speak a lot. I think it was a good night for the Recording Academy. There's still some opportunities to consider, but given the focus that this academy has put towards this, I think we can expect that anything that we talk about on this podcast is already something that they're already looking into and thinking about themselves. So far we've mostly talked about the biggest artists in the world and what a Grammy win or nomination can mean for them. But since they're already at that high level, the Grammy can still be great from a recognition perspective, solidifying their legacy. But the true lift in impact is more likely to be seen from the artists that are emerging in their careers or the artists that are in niche genres. And according to our study by our friend of the pod, Will Page, that's where the real lift happens, and not just bragging rights in true economic lift. In 2023, Will worked on a report in collaboration with the Recording Academy using chartmetric data that looked at what the value is of a Grammy in today's music industry. And for an emerging niche or mid tier artist, a Grammy Award win can boost their income on the recorded music side at least one third higher than the existing base, which can often lead to a bump in recorded income in one year from 900,000 to $1.8 million. And the impact on the touring side is even higher, where touring income can grow from 1.5 million up to $8 million. And that may not be a huge lift for a Beyonce or a Kendrick Lamar who already break records with each of their tours, but it could be a huge lift for an artist like Leon Thomas, who's nominated for Best New Artist Album of the Year and several other categories and is the exact type of artist that could have this type of bump. One of the best examples in recent years of an artist that truly benefited from the Grammys in a clear, objective way, where the opportunities that they had afterward likely wouldn't have happened without it is John Batiste. When his album We Are One Album of the Year. Sure, it was a surprise to many, but that is what the Grammy voters picked and we think about the career opportunities that he's had ever since. Having Different Placement Having different placements features mainstream opportunities, getting his own Netflix documentary. These are the type of opportunities that existed for John Batiste, an artist that had less than 3 million monthly active listeners on Spotify, but has now exceeded that level and has stayed there consistently for some time. This is the type of sustained lift that we're talking about, and according to Will's research, the artists that win Grammys do have increased consumption on the streaming side to the tune of 35.5% lift, specifically on the number of streams that they have as a result of the win. So Leon Thomas falls in that category, Somber falls in that category, was also nominated for Best New Artist, and this may be a bit of a stretch, but there's an argument to put clips there as well. It's been 16 years since the last Clips album Til the Casket Drops. And while Pusha T has been nominated for Grammys in the past, some people feel like he may have deserved to win for Daytona on albums like that. But Clips getting a nomination not just in their genre, but as one of the best eight albums of the year just goes to show how truly special it is for artisan group like that. And while they definitely don't come from a niche genre, hip hop is still the most popular, most listened to, and most streamed genre in the world. Clips is not Kendrick Lamar, Drake or Travis Scott or any of these artists that tend to dominate streaming from hip hop artists, we could see a similar bump not just with their album Let God Sort Them out, but depending on how the winds go for the night as well. It'll be interesting to revisit these stats specifically for a group like that and to talk more about that Grammy bounce, that bump that we see, the economic lift for what an artist could have moving forward. And let's bring on our final call in for the day, our friend of the pod, Zach Greenberg, the author of Empire State of Mind. Zach o' Malley Greenberg, welcome back to the show.
- [33:45]
D
Great to be back, Dan.
- [33:46]
A
So the Grammy nominations are live. You and I have talked about is the Grammy bounce. The Grammy bump, the lift that an artist gets by being either part of the show itself as a performer winning an award. And for the established names, the percentage or the actual lift may not be as material as it could be for a emerging artist or an artist in a particular niche. But as you look through this year's nominations that came out, is there anyone that stands out to you that could have the type of lift that we're talking about if they end up winning in a couple of months?
- [34:21]
B
Yeah.
- [34:21]
D
You know, it's funny looking at the major categories, aside from best New Artist, it's mostly pretty established artists. I guess Dochi is somebody who doesn't quite have that international superstar thing going on yet. I think she could get a really nice boost with the win in one of those categories. Clips, these are household names in hip hop, but could there be like a little bump there into more mainstream worldwide recognition that wasn't there before? It'll probably be bad bunny, obviously, 100% international superstar. He's got this one week span of Grammys and then Super Bowl. He's going to own the narrative for a solid week there. And in the lead up and in the aftermath of these two things, that's like a couple weeks of being the biggest story in music on an International, biggest possible stage. And it'll be really interesting to see what he does with that. And I think particularly in our times with the geopolitical media machine playing into that and giving him even more exposure. If it's possible for Bad Bunny to get bigger, he's going to get bigger. And when he continues this international tour, he's already playing selling out soccer stadiums. He's going to make hundreds of millions of dollars in 2026. It's going to be wild, and I think it'll be cool to see that that story unfold.
- [35:41]
A
Any other takeaways from this year's nominations or anything that you're excited about for the awards? Himself.
- [35:46]
D
Oh, man. In my dad era of Grammys, I'm excited to be at home this year sitting on the couch, and I might actually watch with my daughter for the first time ever.
- [35:57]
A
Oh, there we go.
- [35:58]
D
Rather than being in the building, Riley's. She's a little more like into older songs these days. Uptown Girl by Billy Joel. Welcome to New York. Taylor Swift. We'll see how she responds to some of the newer artists, but yeah, that's my goal, I think. So that. That'll be fun.
- [36:14]
A
You're naming all the New York songs you're going to play. Ja Rule and Fat Show New York as well. Yeah.
- [36:20]
D
You know, she asked for welcome to New York a bunch of times in a row and then I played the Jay Z and Cameron version. She didn't like it very much.
- [36:27]
A
So welcome to New York City.
- [36:29]
D
Yeah, yeah, it was a little too rugged at this point, but she'll go for like Nas filmatic era stuff. But she's more of like golden age hip hop than that early aught sort of stuff, I guess. Well, she'll get there. We'll get there.
- [36:41]
A
Empire State of Mind fan. That's probably the 21st century New York anthem. As much as I love Fat Joe in John Rules New York, I think it's Empire State of Mind.
- [36:50]
D
Yeah, Yeah, I think so too. I think so too.
- [36:53]
A
Well, Zach, I appreciate you coming on.
- [36:55]
D
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
- [36:58]
A
And that is a wrap for our Grammys breakdown. Thank you again to the Recording Academy, specifically John Locan for your help to help make this happen. Thank you again to Panos Tat t Zach for joining us on this episode. Thank you to our audio and video producers Eric and G, for everything that you do to help make Travital possible. But most importantly, thank you for listening. If there's one person you know that would really enjoy Trapital and get a lot out of listening to the show, then send them a link to the show. Word of mouth is still the best way to grow and we want to make sure that trapital reaches the right people. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast player of choice, Spotify, Apple, Music, wherever, make sure you tap that follow button so you get the next trapital episode when it drops. And if you have a few moments, if you could leave a review, leave a comment Rate the podcast that helps the algorithm make sure that trapital reaches the right people. Thanks again. Talk to you next time. Our friends at Tidal are giving away $1 million to 10 indie artists. That's 10 standout tracks that will each win $100,000 through Tidal Upload Headliners Contest. This is how it works. You upload your track to Tidal Upload, which gets your music in front of their editorial team for review. And if your track stands out, you could be one of 10 to win $100,000. So head to Title Upload now and submit your track. No purchase necessary. Contest ends 11 hours, 59 minutes and 59pm Eastern Time on December 31, 2025, except for judging panel one, which ends on November 20, 2025. Open to legal residents of the 50 United States and D.C. must be 18 or older and have a US title account void where prohibited. For complete official rules, Visit title.com. terms upload headliners.