Jaime Garcia (2:16)

Hey, sluggies. I don't know if you know, but we have a producer tier. Halloween is coming up. We're planning a bunch of themed episodes. And what's really cool, if you sign up for the producer tier, you get to dictate what we do, how we dress, what the theme is. You get to send in advice, you get to send in ideas for segments. And we are at the mercy of your suggestions. So go sign up for that. And also thank you, thank you, thank you to our golden slug, Brandon. I'll tell you a couple things about Brandon. Extremely hot, extremely successful, from Texas, Brandon. You don't know him, but he's the homie.

Ivy Wolk (2:52)

Thank you, Brandon.

Jaime Garcia (2:52)

Go get thank you from Jaime Garcia. This podcast is brought to you by Skims.

Ivy Wolk (2:57)

I have a pair of boxers.

Jaime Garcia (2:58)

Skims and how do you love them?

Ivy Wolk (2:59)

It's like I'm not wearing boxers.

Jules (3:01)

It's just free range out there.

Ivy Wolk (3:04)

That's how comfortable these skims are for me.

Jaime Garcia (3:07)

Shop our favorite bras and underwear@skims.com after you place your order. Be sure to let them know we sent you select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Trash Tuesday in the drop down menu that follows.

Ivy Wolk (3:19)

Schemes.

Jules (3:19)

I am so excited because I am officially going on tour and it is starting so soon. We're right around the corner. First September 12th and 13th, I'm going to be in Madison, Wisconsin for the first time ever. I had to reschedule last time and was never able to do it. I cannot wait. These shows are going to be so much fun. Madison, Wisconsin. And then next I'll be in Portland at the Aladdin Theater. I'm going to be in Seattle at the Neptune, Olympia, Washington, Philly, New York City, Boston. I'm hitting all the best cities this leg of this tour. So please get tickets. Come see me. It's going to be so much fun. We'll hang. I have all this new material that I've been working on. I can't wait to share it. And you can get tickets@prettylittlebaby tour.com or at the link below. I cannot wait to see you guys. Ivy is giving like 37 year old friend of mine and she's 21 and it's freaking me out.

Jaime Garcia (4:12)

How does that happen?

Ivy Wolk (4:14)

I grew up in Los Angeles. I just like had the demons bite me from a very young age. I had to fight my way out and now I'm here and I'm seasoned.

Jules (4:24)

And she's trying to trap a man who is 17 years older than her. Oh, I love.

Ivy Wolk (4:30)

It's hard. It's been, it's been, it's proven difficult.

Jaime Garcia (4:33)

But what's our strategy?

Ivy Wolk (4:35)

My strategy is just be myself, have fun, learn along the way.

Jules (4:40)

Those are good strategies.

Ivy Wolk (4:42)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (4:43)

Or we can go the trap the real trapping way, which is what Esther did.

Jules (4:46)

What did I do, baby?

Jaime Garcia (4:49)

Before that? Like the ultimatums.

Jules (4:52)

The ultimatums are tricky. It's a tricky dance. I had to do a few ultimatums along the way to get to where I am. You know, like, if we're not living together by this time, you don't call me until you're asking me to move in.

Ivy Wolk (5:05)

See, when it comes to men, I have no backbone. So I really do admire that. I would let a man, like, kind of. If a man, like, doesn't think I'm attractive or isn't giving me what I want in my head, I'm like, okay. Immediately, he's, like, so much better than me. And actually, he's doing this because he's, like, a superior person. Like, what if. If he wanted to, like, flay me down the middle and, like, use my skin as a throw rug? Like, that would be incredible for me. I'd be like, yes, King, I'll do that for you. So, like, I really admire that. I really admire that.

Jules (5:33)

But I like what you said about your strategy being just like, be yourself, be cool. Like, that is part of the strategy, especially early on.

Ivy Wolk (5:41)

I'm just trying to, like. I mean, the thing is. Yeah. I mean, a situationship with, like, an older ho ass man. Like, truly, I wouldn't. I kind of wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But you know what? I believe that actually I am tough enough to take it. I have so many girlfriends I look at, and I'm like, you wouldn't fucking last a day in my fucking shoes. You wouldn't be able to do this. And it's because I love and respect them and don't want them to go through turmoil. But for me, it's like, I'm the diamond. I need pressure. And so I like. So I'm kind of a masochist in that way where it's like. Like, I like being really tested and having my ass whooped by life and love. Wow.

Jules (6:21)

Wow. Let's introduce Ivy, by the way.

Jaime Garcia (6:24)

Yeah.

Jules (6:24)

Let's Shade's guest is Ivy Wolk.

Jaime Garcia (6:27)

She's way too cool to be here.

Jules (6:29)

She is in the hit show on fx, English Teacher. She is literally in the Oscar dominating movie. Anora wasn't allowed in the Cannes party.

Ivy Wolk (6:42)

I went to the party, the premiere.

Jules (6:43)

You had a backbone then.

Ivy Wolk (6:45)

I did have a backbone then. Although that was. That was ratchet and crazy. It definitely was just like. Well, they wouldn't let me into the premiere of the movie. They eventually did when they realized who I was, that I was in it, but that was like a. That was nasty. And then some French was filming me freaking out, and so I kind of got. Getting a Karen video abroad is, like, a terrible way.

Jules (7:06)

I think it was a star turning role.

Ivy Wolk (7:09)

Thank you. And thank you, because a lot of people don't echo that sentiment. So thank you. Thank you.

Jules (7:16)

So how did you meet this guy that you're Instagram, who pursued who he.

Ivy Wolk (7:21)

Was liking the stories? I slid in the DMs, you know, quid pro quo type of shit?

Jules (7:25)

Yeah, we didn't have story liking in my single days. And so I do feel that I could see how that's really, like, such a simple gesture.

Ivy Wolk (7:36)

It's kind of. It's like eye contact. It's like eye contact from across the room, except it's not, because it's entirely disembodied and disconnected. And he's just sort of liking, you know, an image of you.

Jaime Garcia (7:45)

Does it have to be serial, like. Or can it be, like, one here and then one, three days later? Is it. Does it have to be a pattern you recognize? And you're like, oh, this person's, like.

Ivy Wolk (7:53)

Really watching if I recognize it if he's watching all the stories. And then, like, for example, it was the selfies he was liking, or, like, a particularly funny video he was liking. And I'm like, okay, I know that you're interested in sort of what it is that I'm offering you, but he was, like, liking the stories when he was on Ambien, like, at night. And so he wasn't really aware fully that he was liking the stories because he was sort of in a fugue state. So then when I slid into the DMs, I think he was a little confused because he hadn't remembered, like, what his other self was.

Jaime Garcia (8:24)

I can really defend him here in that. Two things I've done on Ambien that I also did in a fugue state. First time I ever did anal on Ambien. On Ambien. Now that I look back at it, I'm like, was it magical or was I just, like, on Ambien? Second thing I did is I was extreme dieting at this time. Took an Ambien, woke up with plates and food all around me.

Ivy Wolk (8:48)

Yeah, what your heart wants when you're on Ambien, it will get for you. I mean, honestly, it's like when Roseanne was tweeting all that shit and she was like, I was on Ambien. It's like, girl, that's your soul, and that's okay. And that's okay. That's okay, sister. But that is your true self.

Jaime Garcia (9:02)

Yeah, anal is my true self.

Ivy Wolk (9:05)

That's what she said.

Jules (9:06)

I meant because I'm famously anxiously attached. Are you? I can't figure you out.

Ivy Wolk (9:11)

Yeah, I think I would say yes, but it kind of oscillates. Like, there's been times. I mean, I'm definitely. Well, above all else, I'm a freeloader, right? So I'm gonna stay in somebody's apartment whether or not I like them. You know, even if I'm like, this is the first guy that I've, like, been with for a while where I'm actually like, oh, I actively really like you. Usually it's like a thing in retrospect where I'm kind of so overwhelmed by the feeling that, like, I'll, like, be in a man's apartment for 16 hours a day, but I'll just sleep the entire time. Because in my head, I'm like, I'm doing the thing. Like, I'm being here, I'm being domestic. I'm doing it. But then I'm so over overwhelmed by kind of, like, his affection for me that I'm like, you know, I pass out. And so this is, like, actually me being, like, making him house me in his apartment for four days the entire time I'm awake, you know, And I'm like, well, let's play a card game. You know, three in the morning. I'm like, three in the morning. I'm like, what were you like at summer camp as a kid? Fucked up. And so I say, like, it used to be pretty. Like, I used to be pretty avoidant, but now I'm kind of like. I, like, will look at him sometimes, and I'll be like, I just wish that I was like, like your kneecap so I could always be inside of you. Like, he looks at me like I just spoke in hieroglyphs. So that's kind of what I'm doing. So I guess that I would say that that's anxious, but the whole going.

Jaime Garcia (10:32)

Catatonic to be avoidant. Maybe do swing.

Jules (10:34)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (10:35)

Like, that is a really interesting strategy to kind of just be like, I'm domestic, but I am sleeping, like, three quarters of the time I'm here.

Jules (10:42)

Which is famously what John Mayer has said that he's looking for.

Jaime Garcia (10:46)

Really?

Jules (10:47)

He literally Said that his girlfriend is a. Like, someone that's like a house cat. I don't know how he thought he could say that and not be made fun of. But, like, it's like he wants just a girl who's sleeping on his couch.

Jaime Garcia (11:00)

But who scratches him on occasion if he, like, touches her in the wrong way.

Jules (11:04)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (11:04)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (11:05)

Wow. Well, I wouldn't fudge John Mayer with somebody else's pussy, but that does sound like an ideal arrangement. I just think he's corny. I just, like, really. I mean, I. And I know at this point he's, like, kind of infected comedy in a really interesting way. Similarly to Matty healy of the 1975, where these are male musicians who are like, but what if all my friends were alternative comedians? And it's like, you don't need that. You don't need that. You don't need that.

Jaime Garcia (11:29)

What is Matt Healey's deal?

Ivy Wolk (11:31)

He's, like, kind of like an aging hipster who, like, I don't know. Taylor Swift. Here's the thing, here's my theory is like, Taylor Swift treated. The situation that they had is, like, so catastrophic because she's, like, a corny theater camp alcoholic. And he's like. And I say this with, like, obviously love in my heart because, like, while I think my best friend and I call Taylor Swift the white devil, like, we really don't understand the appeal, but I understand and I sympathize with her ultimately, like, because I do think actually, like, I mean, if you listen to the music, this is a woman who's consistently sad. You know, this is a girl who is just, like, sad and has dark thoughts and probably is like a varsity functioning anorexic. But this is my read on Taylor, but, you know, she had this thing with Maddie Healy where it was like, you know, the girl from fucking theater class gets with the guy who's, like, smoking cigarettes in the alley. And then it fucked her up. And now Maddie is, like, dating an influencer. And I think she had to, like, date a football player in order to, like, make herself feel better. She had to, like, one up. I mean, I think most famous people, it's like the age at which you got famous is kind of the age that you're stuck forever. And it's like, Taylor didn't, like, have a normal high school experience. And so she's like, microdosing high school through her relationships in her adulthood.

Jules (12:48)

The jock, like, the star jock now.

Ivy Wolk (12:51)

Dating the dumb cted out jock who, like, can't fucking recognize Eve from Adam. On, like, a piece of paper. It's like. But she loves that. She loves that. And I just watched, like. I mean, I've been, like, going on. I never, like, really listened to the music. I think, like, 1989 came out when I was, like, in middle school. And I remember, like, I listened to it when it came out and I liked it. But, like, Taylor, for me has been like a kind of major cultural blind spot and kind of recently, because I try to. I try to be, like, a student of pop music because, like, it is, like, a cultural product and it does reflect sort of what we're going through as a people. Similarly with reality tv, where it's like, people pass it off as, like, vapid trash, but actually, like, the reason that it exists is because it's a public service and we all need it in order to see ourselves and our needs reflected back at the. On the screen and in the music. So I've been trying to, like, do a, like, kind of reflection, like a post facto reflection of, like, the tailor Taylor Swift, like, life and career. And the thing is, like, she is to me, just kind of extremely milquetoast and boring. Like, I listen to the music. I. I understand. Like, with her, I think the appeal is, like, the lore is rich because she's been famous for so long and she's been so good at sort of keeping her fans at a distance, but also, like, letting them in on so much. And it's a weird balance that she walks with that. And so that's her appeal. But it's like you actually, like, put your earbuds in and you listen to the music and it's like you two songs are exactly, like, sonically the same. Lyrically the same. Like, doesn't make any sense to me. She's just not interesting. And also, she's, like, not a good enough stage performer to get away with the fame that she has.

Jules (14:33)

I. I have to agree with that.

Ivy Wolk (14:35)

She really. I've seen so many clips of her where I watched last year when I was, like, high out of my gourd on ketamine. I watched the Eras Tour movie and I was, like, so perplexed. It just, like, what everybody was crying over. I mean, it's the lore that they're crying for. It's really like the. You feel like you're, like, participating with history when you watch her, I guess, in a way, because, like, it has to be that, right? Because, like, the voice is good, but it's not stellar. The performance is boring. And she kind of, like, lacks Presence. I just. It's like. It's interesting to me.

Jaime Garcia (15:10)

Who is it for you then? Who's your north star of, like, pop music?

Ivy Wolk (15:13)

My north star for pop music? I mean, I'm. I mean, I'm like. I've been really fascinated with Britney lately. I think Madonna really is, like, the apex for me.

Jules (15:26)

Okay.

Jaime Garcia (15:26)

Thank God.

Ivy Wolk (15:27)

Madonna is really the apex for me because she was as much a pop star, she was a performance artist, and she synthesized, like, so many kind of weird subcultural things and then made them big and popular, while also, like, it didn't some things, I guess maybe probably felt appropriative, if you, like, would look into it. But I think actually, like, she was into all that stuff deeply. And she clearly was a girl that was like, you know, watching Jean Michael Basquiat, like, shoot up in their loft and being like, you're so crazy. Like, you know, it's like, obviously, like, she run game. She been there, right? Yeah, she really is.

Jaime Garcia (16:05)

I agree.

Ivy Wolk (16:06)

All the shit that I think Madonna sings about and has used in her performance style and in. Even in, like, the sex book and all these things, it's like, I know this is like a nasty hoe. Like, I know one thing about Madonna is I know that this bitch has let two guys fuck her butt at once, and she just did it to have a song.

Jaime Garcia (16:23)

So you don't think that Taylor has a hidden, like, nasty wholeness?

Ivy Wolk (16:28)

Taylor, to me, is the kind of girl where if you get in a fight with her, she thinks, like, a great move is to, like, throw her phone at you from across the room. Like, that's the vibe I get from Taylor where she's like, fuck you. And then she, like, throws the phone and it's like, that's what keeps her interesting to men is, like, the fact that she kind of of is like, when's she gonna throw the phone? But otherwise it's like, I don't know. But she does clearly have some sort of real pull with men. That is quite interesting to me. And I wish I could, like, install a security camera.

Jules (16:57)

I think she has a poll with men. I mean, she dated Harry Styles.

Jaime Garcia (17:00)

Yeah, that's Jules's ultimate.

Jules (17:02)

Let's look at facts on paper. Like, she's pulled every single guy, super famous pop star. It's a little easier to have pull with men.

Jaime Garcia (17:11)

I think quite the opposite.

Jules (17:12)

What?

Jaime Garcia (17:13)

Yeah, I think, like, really, who is.

Jules (17:15)

Har Styles gonna date? Like, a fan? Like, they have limited options.

Ivy Wolk (17:20)

The pool is limited. And so I guess, like. I mean, and the thing with Taylor Was like, she dates too many guys. She sings about how she's dating too many guys, and it's like she just happened to be extraordinarily famous. Like, paparazzi was following her. So, like, there was, you know, maybe there's probably relationships she's had that we don't know about, but that was like, the only place she was, like, afforded any sort of discretion. But it's like everybody was watching her every move since she was. Was 16 years old. And so it's like anybody that she fucks or goes out with or whatever, like. And that's the thing is with her fans, they're so fucking, like. People online call it like, qanon for white chicks. It's like, literally, that's what it is. It's like they're so fucking schizophrenic that anybody that she's seen with, all of a sudden it's like, well, actually, these three songs on the B sides of this album are actually about this guy that she went to lunch with in Cape Cod. And it's like they just extrapolate whatever the. From any image, any, like, slight glint at the camera in her eyes that she makes to, like, a paparazzi, you know, a paparazzo. And it's like they just. Her fans take and build lore from whatever she gives them, and she knows that, and that's the relationship with the fans that she has. And that's why she's so interesting, because I feel like, like, with Britney, that's so compelling is like the meta narrative where it's like, it's not controlled by her. Like, Britney is somebody that it's hard to wrestle with sort of when you listen to her music. In retrospect, she wasn't writing any of that stuff. She wasn't, you know, creative directing or spearheading her own career. Really, even from before the conservatorship, like, she did not have that much autonomy. She was like a machine. Granted. She was like a fucking bright shining star. And, like, had this, like, inimitable, ineffable, like, star power that people still are, like, wrestling with today. Like, she was so enigmatic because you can't tell about Britney. Like, what is it that we all love so much about Britney? It's just something in the eyes, something in the body, the way she moves. And a lot of the early Britney music, even pre conservatorship, is like, you don't understand me. Everybody's trying to control me. I need to do what I want. Like, overprotected, not Yet a girl, not yet a woman. Like, she had all these songs about, like, people stifling her and then trying to control her image and all these things. But that was even before that was happening. It was like the people that were writing the music for her sort of were taking these, like, classic teen girl ideas of, like, my mom is, you know, telling me that I have to keep my door unlocked in my room, and then, you know, ascribing that to Britney, who was the teen idol. These, like, very distinctly teen feelings. But now we look back at those in retrospect and don't see that these writers were, like, just writing about, like, general teen feelings of, like, oppression and suppression. And now we see it as, like, this was, like, her message to the label. And it's like, no, but the meta narrative with Britney, that's what's interesting, is, like, you look back at all of it in retrospect and you're, you know, trying to cue an on white woman yourself into thinking that it was all folding in on itself. But the thing about Taylor is, like, she's been in control of her meta narrative and her, you know, direct narrative the entire time. And she does that on purpose. And so I think that's the thing that people like about Taylor also. I think it's like, because she's sort of awkward and because she's, like, kind of. I mean, I think she's, like a beautiful woman, but, like, also, she doesn't serve looks. Let's just say that, like, Taylor. Taylor's not popping out on a carpet in something where you're like, wow, that's gonna push the needle forward.

Jaime Garcia (20:39)

And do you think that that's an intentional thing or she just doesn't have.

Ivy Wolk (20:42)

I think she's, like, corny by spirit, and so she doesn't really have those sort of instincts in her. But that's what makes her people like her because sometimes surrogate for women of the world. It's like a woman of the world, classically, is not going to be wearing some, like, Chapel Roan, Charlie XCX shit to, like, a work function. You know, sometimes I do think it's.

Jaime Garcia (20:59)

An intentional thing she does where she sits right middle of, like, quite. Not quite being fashionable. The hair, the fit. And I'm like, I don't know if this is an intentional move or if.

Jules (21:08)

That'S perfect for, like, Southern white women.

Jaime Garcia (21:12)

Now, I have a question for you, and this is for Jules. Since you're our little genius, what strategy would you employ to hook up with your ultimate boy crush? Like ever. And in this case, it's Harry Styles. From here where we're at, you're a podcaster. You're on Bad Friends. What can we help you? What can we do to craft a strategy for you to finally get with Harry Styles?

Jules (21:39)

Oh, I don't even know what I feel like. I don't have the pull at all. I can just offer my pussy and like just send.

Jaime Garcia (21:50)

How do we even get there? How do we even have him open the said, you know, photo of pussy?

Jules (21:54)

You have to like work with some publicist.

Ivy Wolk (21:57)

Yes. You have to be in the right room. You have to employ some like, shadow strategy.

Jaime Garcia (22:01)

What shadow strategy?

Jules (22:02)

I mean, just like accidentally being near.

Ivy Wolk (22:04)

Him and looking good, gaming the system sort of to get in the same spaces as him, like knowing. I mean, I. But the thing is like, that requires. I don't know much about Harry Styles, so that requires a kind of knowing what his public Persona is and like where he is spotted. Like, I guess, like if there are restaurants he frequents in paparazzi photos or he's the kind of guy to like go to like a, you know, Variety magazine party or something. It's like trying to get into those places. Like you really do have to think about like, where is he being photographed?

Jules (22:33)

And let me be so clear, it's possible. Look at Hailey Bieber.

Ivy Wolk (22:39)

Exactly.

Jules (22:40)

Look at Meghan Markle, Ms. Fake Ass Story of like, I didn't even know who he was. It's like, bitch, I know people who knew you where you said, I'm gonna marry that man before you ever met me.

Ivy Wolk (22:50)

And congratulations. Yeah, like the thing with Hailey Bieber is I'm like. And congratu fuckin relationships. You fucking did it. You did the thing.

Jules (22:57)

No shame.

Ivy Wolk (22:58)

It's possible. It is fully possible. Yeah. It's always possible.

Jules (23:02)

I know that he's into running and.

Ivy Wolk (23:04)

Then he's gonna chase him.

Jaime Garcia (23:07)

Y.

Jules (23:11)

So maybe I just have to start like doing marathons, see if he's there.

Jaime Garcia (23:15)

That's like the one thing you don't do is run.

Jules (23:18)

I hate running. You know what's sad to me about the Britney. Comparing Britney and Taylor is like if you look at them, it's like it all boils down to the difference between like having rich, educated parents and like.

Ivy Wolk (23:30)

Being a damn hick who had Kentwood, Louisiana being from motherfucking Kentwood. Yeah. I mean, Britney is like. Like they're both women who got famous as children, but the circumstances were different. I feel like Taylor sort of immediately hit her stride like everybody when she was like, 14 was like, this is the girl. And then before that, you don't really hear from her, but it's like Britney was a child actress, and she was, like, doing off Broadway stuff when she was a kid, and she was like, there was just so many, like, forces in her family trying to make her famous. Ultimately, like, it is really sad that the people that wanted to make her famous were the people that, like. Like, I mean, now it's like she gives lobotomized. Like, truly, it's like the Instagram is a joy, but it is, like, very hard to watch because it's like. I mean, it's the same thing I feel about Amanda Bynes, where it's like, something happened to you.

Jaime Garcia (24:16)

That's been my biggest heartbreak is Amanda Bynes.

Ivy Wolk (24:18)

Really hard, because Amanda was like. I mean, leading a sketch comedy show at 12 years old is, like, an insurmountable amount of fucking pressure. And to have that comedic timing and that screen presence at that young of an age, like, of course something fucking terrible and mind melting is gonna happen to you, because, like, that's. That's what happens is like, you can't. Your star can't, like, burn for that long before it just becomes absolutely too much, especially if you are, like, unsupported. Especially if things. I mean, it's a miracle that Lindsay Lohan is, like, back in the cultural.

Jaime Garcia (24:51)

I can't believe it.

Ivy Wolk (24:53)

She does. It's like, that was a girl who, like, her dad was in prison for, like, insider trading, and they're like, domestic violence. And, like, all this was happening in, like, her home life was fucking bad on top of her being, like, a fudgeing international superstar. And it was like, all these forces, she had nowhere to go that was, like, fully safe. And of course, she crashed out. And, like, the fact that, you know, she's back and we've, like, accepted her now again, is amazing. That kind of reappraisal of a woman usually only happens after they have died.

Jaime Garcia (25:24)

I think it's the good facelift.

Ivy Wolk (25:26)

I think that really helps, because if she still sort of looked like a woman who had been, you know, around the damn block at the Chateau Marmont, like, pounding, you know, keys upon keys upon lines upon keys, for as long as she was, people would not be as welcoming to her. It's the fact that she looks young again, and that's when we remember her being clean and good to us. And so you get that face back, and people are like, there she is. You know, and so it still is, like, kind of buried underneath These, like, layers of. Of sexism and, like, all this shit. But I mean, maybe, like, the ends justify the means. And the fact that even though, like, yeah, she had to, like, you know, get her face stapled into a ponytail on the back of her neck to have us love her again, maybe it does signal, like, a sort of paradigm shift of, like, okay, we can actually, like, open our hearts to these women while they're still alive.

Jaime Garcia (26:20)

Because there's a roadmap.

Ivy Wolk (26:21)

Yes. We look back at a female celebrity whom we have, like, culturally wronged or who crashed out or who was, like, done dirty or whatever. We only do that after she has passed. And then until then, it's like, you're still a villain to us. And then once you're. You've died, you're sort of, like, made into a saint or, like a martyr for culture. So I think hopefully, like, Lindsay, especially since she's, like, obviously still, like, coherent and doing well, unlike somebody like Britney or Amanda who we've, like, we've come now to be like, oh, those women were, like, victims of their. Of their circumstance and victims of our culture. But these are women who. It's like, will Britney ever make another album? Will she ever perform at that caliber again? Will Amanda Bynes ever, like, be back on screen? They probably don't want to. That's the thing. They probably. They want to be seen in some way. Otherwise they would be hermits and they wouldn't be, like, posting videos of them spinning on Instagram. But it's like, they can't perform at the caliber that they once did, nor do they probably want to because it was so psychically physically torturous.

Jules (27:23)

Do you have any, like, celebrity crush like Jules does that you would try to go after?

Ivy Wolk (27:28)

Yeah, well, there's one guy that, since I was. Since I was in the third grade, I have, like, really kind of, like. And it's kind of. It's waning. But now I would actually know exactly how to get this motherfucker to do whatever I wanted and open his bank account to me. And that's one Mr. Louis CK. And I would know exactly. I would know exactly how to get this motherfucker to give me everything in his wallet, all of his assets. He would write a fucking, like, will with my name in it.

Jules (28:02)

Like, he's making you beneficiary on all the accounts.

Ivy Wolk (28:06)

Like this. There's a person, like, a certain kind of like. Like, erotically submissive pervert like that that I exactly understand how to game. I mean, like, since the third grade, I Didn't know this when I was in third grade, but all but I wanted to him when I was in third grade for sure. I listened to like chewed up on my mom's iPad and I was like, wait, hold on a minute. And it's kind of pervaded. I mean, now he like obviously is old, but that is like a kick him when he's down thing, you know. His spirit has obviously been weathered by his brush with the hashtag MeToo movement. And so, you know, I know, I know I would be able to kind of get in there and abrade and sort of poke until he did whatever he wanted.

Jaime Garcia (28:50)

I don't think you'd have to do much.

Jules (28:51)

What would you do? What would your strategy be?

Ivy Wolk (28:53)

I would just probably like make eye contact with him and be like, I know that you're like a sick motherfucker. You like, get your rocks off from doing like sick shit and you, you know, have like a sort of impropriety fetish. And so you nasty things and you do nasty things so that you can like, you know, hurt your own feelings. Then that in turn turns you on. And like, I know exactly just like how to hurt you. That's probably what I would do. Like, I mean, I used to do like phone sex and like dominatrix, like webcam porn and stuff like that. And so it's like I know how to do these things. Like, I know these types of them.

Jaime Garcia (29:28)

From a mile away.

Ivy Wolk (29:29)

Yeah, yeah. They have a certain kind of energy and like, you know, they type in a certain way, they talk in a certain way. I know. And they're always flighty is the thing. Like a submissive man actually is always going to be the one that's the least consistent with money. Like, I just know how they speak. I know how they evade things. I know how they obfuscate. Like, I get it and so I can sense it. And I see in Louis something extremely similar where I'm like, you just want to be like, you just want to be told that you're fucking ugly and you want to jerk off about it. And it's like, I know, I know exactly how to do that. And I understand he's like your guys industry peer, but technically he's mine too, so I can say this same clubs. Okay, I'll run into him when I run into him. And I feel like, I know, I.

Jaime Garcia (30:14)

Feel like you're really close though. There is an, you know, I feel like you're a little bit further from Harry. But this one is.

Jules (30:19)

Oh yeah, yeah.

Ivy Wolk (30:20)

I mean, I chose somebody in my field. I particularly chose somebody. I mean, is he somebody where it's like, do I really find him attractive that much anymore? Like, no, not really. But he is somebody where I know he would be achievable. It would be extremely attainable for me and Louis. I would exactly know how to do that. I don't know who's, like, somebody sexy that I would. Would be unattainable? I don't really know. I guess maybe, like, in terms of. I feel like in my own personal life, like, all I have this complex that, like, all of my interpersonal, romantic conquests are so unattainable that maybe, like, the fantasy for me with a celebrity is, like, somebody that I could actually get. So it's like the reverse of most people where it's like, the celebrity crush is the person that you never in a million years could feel. But then in your real life, it's like you have a breadth of choice. But for me, it's like, in my real life, I've, like, struggled so much to actually get laid over the past few years and to date and all these things. So it's like, with my celebrity crushes, it's like, I only try to think what's actually achievable. I mean. Cause here's the thing. It's like, I'm gonna pop your dick out of my mouth and start talking about pop stars and actresses. You know? It's like, kind of like what I do need is, like, a Gen X gay guy. Like, that would kind of be the perfect dream. Same man for me forever is like, if I were to date a guy who's like, like, honey, Tara Reid, you know? And it's like, then, you know, you're speaking my language.

Jaime Garcia (31:50)

You guys, I'm a new mom. My are all over the place. Sorry, Jaime.

Ivy Wolk (31:55)

It's okay.

Jaime Garcia (31:56)

I'm sure you've seen them fluctuate a lot. In the last year. My body, my size has fluctuated. But what I love about skims is that I haven't had to buy any new bra, any new underwear, any new loungewear, because it just adapts to my new shape. Whatever season of your life you're going through, skims has got you. And what I love about the Skims Fits everybody collection is I literally wear their bras to sleep. When I tell you I wear these things 24 7, I mean it. They are seamless. They are soft. They are buttery on my body. My favorite ones are the razorback bra bralettes. And not only are they super comfortable, but they keep the girlies up. And I need these girlies up. I'm still breastfeeding. They are big, they are heavy, they need that support. But I can do that without an underwire. And that, my friends, is a dream come true. Shop my favorite bras and underwear and Jaime's favorite Bras and underwear@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select Trash Tuesday in the drop down menu that follows follows schemes.

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Jaime Garcia (36:05)

You were on subway takes.

Ivy Wolk (36:07)

Can I eat this?

Jules (36:08)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (36:09)

I was like, is this a problem?

Jaime Garcia (36:10)

So I'm, I have like a bun. A list of like just takes. And I wanted to know your opinion on.

Ivy Wolk (36:15)

Okay.

Jaime Garcia (36:16)

That they've. That other people have said.

Ivy Wolk (36:18)

Amazing.

Jules (36:19)

All businesses in New York should be.

Jaime Garcia (36:21)

Required to have a public restroom.

Ivy Wolk (36:24)

I agree. I agree.

Jaime Garcia (36:26)

Band singing Happy Birthday in restaurants.

Ivy Wolk (36:31)

What's wrong with a little musicality adorning your dinner? What's wrong with a little. What's wrong with being at a few tables over and hearing some notes getting into your steak? I think it, it's, it's good for the body. I think it impacts the nutrition.

Jules (36:46)

I tend to lean towards kind of grinchy and even I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that.

Ivy Wolk (36:51)

There's nothing wrong with that. It's fucking grin and bear. It's 30 seconds and you sing along.

Jaime Garcia (36:55)

I always do.

Ivy Wolk (36:56)

Right. And that's the thing is like the people that are singing you Happy birthday at the restaurant don't want to be singing it either. It's just customary. Grin and bear it with everybody. It'll be over soon. It's 30 seconds of the person who.

Jules (37:06)

Hates it the most is the person who's being sung to, by the way.

Ivy Wolk (37:09)

Exactly.

Jules (37:09)

So it's like just, you're fine.

Jaime Garcia (37:12)

Just participate, be happy. It's not your social participation points.

Ivy Wolk (37:15)

You'll be okay.

Jaime Garcia (37:15)

Gavin Rossdale demanded banning angel hair pasta.

Ivy Wolk (37:18)

Calling it mushy and flavorless. Cooking it wrong. You're just. You're cooking it a little too long, you know, it's just. Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (37:26)

It's already to the point of mushy. But it's really hard to not get angel hair pasta mushy. You'd have to like to get it al dente. Probably like one minute in a boil.

Ivy Wolk (37:36)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (37:36)

Max. Right? Also, like, is Gavin Rossdale out of prison? Celebrity prison, or are we still, like, we still hate him for having sex with a nanny?

Ivy Wolk (37:47)

Was he in, like, the Kia Asylum? Like, was he, like, was he. Was he irrelevant for a while? Or was it like, people were mad at him because he did something?

Jaime Garcia (37:54)

Yeah, they were mad at him because he had. He cheated on Gwen with a nanny. Ben Affleck and Jude Law. Also, like, there's a whole.

Ivy Wolk (38:00)

Arnold Schwarzenegger did it. Arnold Schwarzenegger had a kid.

Jaime Garcia (38:03)

Had a kid.

Ivy Wolk (38:03)

Right.

Jaime Garcia (38:03)

And who he loves more. More than, I think, his actual kids. He's always.

Jules (38:07)

Because that is the one kid that looks like him.

Ivy Wolk (38:09)

It's the one kid that Patrick from White Lotus.

Jules (38:12)

No, that's his regular kid.

Ivy Wolk (38:13)

That's his regular kid. Who's the. Who's the affair kid?

Jaime Garcia (38:16)

He looks like a bodybuilder.

Ivy Wolk (38:17)

And he's not a celebrity. This.

Jules (38:19)

No.

Ivy Wolk (38:19)

Okay, okay. Right.

Jaime Garcia (38:22)

Looks just like him.

Ivy Wolk (38:22)

Created in his father's image. That's dark. That's dark. When a fo. When a son looks too much like a father, it's like, what happened in the home? Do you think?

Jaime Garcia (38:30)

Tell me more.

Ivy Wolk (38:30)

Well, maybe this is just my, like, dad was out the house, me telling type of mindset where I'm like, yeah, if your dad loves you too much, you're gay. So it's just me being defensive. That was fully me being defensive. That was me projecting onto a father's love for a child that was damaged. That was trauma.

Jules (38:45)

You're not off base because look at it. It's like his own children that were raised in his house with him are not like him at all. But then the one child that is like, you know, in. Off in the shadows is like, chasing daddy's love. Exactly.

Ivy Wolk (38:58)

Carving yourself out in daddy's image so that he can see. I mean, listen, my dad always wanted to be a standup comic. That's my job now. And guess what? Has he ever asked me more questions about myself in my life than since I started getting success with stand up? Nope. So look at that now. Every time I fucking talk to my dad, it's like a deadline.com interview. I swear to God, it's like he is curious for damn wants. And that's a beautiful thing. We found our way back to each other. It just, you know, I had to sort of do the thing that he always dreamed of in order to get that. But, you know, many such cases.

Jules (39:33)

Sometimes it's like that with ex boyfriends, too.

Ivy Wolk (39:36)

Yeah.

Jules (39:36)

Or current boyfriends.

Jaime Garcia (39:38)

Tell me, give me an example.

Jules (39:40)

I can't think of any. But it just feels right to me that you do the thing that you knew your ex always wanted.

Ivy Wolk (39:47)

Oh.

Jules (39:48)

You know.

Ivy Wolk (39:49)

Right. And it also makes you feel like you're always a part of them or that they can't ignore you. They can't erase you in the past, because it's like, oh, you're gonna see me, me in the magazines that you read. You're gonna see me, you know, in the clubs that you frequent, Stuff like that. Yeah.

Jules (40:04)

Do you have siblings? No, I, I, I've, I've picked up on that in a nice way.

Ivy Wolk (40:10)

Yeah. I have no siblings. And it's a beautiful life. I'm, I'm glad for it.

Jules (40:15)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (40:15)

I think I would be a terrible sister. I mean, the way that, like, people on the Internet are like, nobody talks about, like, the, the runoff trauma of, like, having like, like, like a special needs sibling as, like, the other sibling. It's like, that's how my, my siblings would be on Tick Tock. If I had siblings, my siblings would be on Tik Tok. Like, nobody talks about how actually hard it is to have Ivy Wolk as your sister. Everything was about her. All the attention went to her. Yeah. I think it would have been damaging. America's gotten soft ever since we stopped drinking whole milk. I mean, I think it's such a.

Jules (40:49)

Lame, nothing take to me.

Ivy Wolk (40:51)

Yeah.

Jules (40:51)

It's like, nothing there. It's, it's like everyone's soft now. It's like, that's. So you're not saying anything to me.

Ivy Wolk (40:59)

Yeah, I just think, like, there's, you know, correlation does not equal causation. It's like, yeah, we stopped drinking whole milk. And then also other cultural forces.

Jules (41:07)

It's just like, sexist bullshit of like, some guy is probably like, why do we need almond milk?

Ivy Wolk (41:13)

It's like, so what?

Jules (41:13)

We like it. We like different milks.

Ivy Wolk (41:16)

He's mad that the world has broadened. He's like, oh, women having opinions. It's like, yeah, yeah, new fucking turning over the new leaf, motherfucker.

Jaime Garcia (41:26)

And the cows need a break.

Ivy Wolk (41:28)

The cows need a break. Milk a coconut. If I have to go up to order. I'm not tipping. Kill yourself. I mean, I used to, like, when I was in high school, I worked at the food court in the Grove, at the farmer's market. We only took cash tips. We didn't have any of the iPad turnaround shit because my boss insisted on us having a cash register from the 1950s, which you couldn't see behind the counter, by the way. So it wasn't for the customers. It was just for us to be confused and have to count out coins in the palms of our fucking hands. It was horrible. But so there was no option for tipping. And so there was, like, a little can, like a empty can on the counter where people could put, like, cash tips. We would all pull our tips as well. Like, at the end of, like, a working week, like, you would go home with, like, you know, two dollars and three pennies in tips. Absolutely fucking horrib. Sometimes, like, our boss, because she thought, like, the tipping was, like, tacky, so she would hide the tip jar so that customers couldn't find it. So we tried to, like, make the tip jar more obvious and, like, put a sign on it that was, like, tips. Like a bright neon green sign that was like, tips. And we put it, like, right in the center where the customers come to, like, where we ring up the food and everything. And she was like, this is an eyesore. That's ugly. Hid it behind other shit. Was like, if they want a tip, they can find it. They can look for it for it. And so the iPad is like. Even though, like, yeah, sometimes it's like you're buying a $7 coffee, and it's like, expecting you to, like, tip, I don't know, a $50 or something. It's like, I always do it because it's like, I know what it's like to, like, have tips be concealed. And that sucks. Going home with, like, you know, $2 and, like, three coins in a paperclip, like, and just like, that's your wares for the evening. It's like, that sucks. So I'm always going to tip.

Jaime Garcia (43:15)

I mean, especially if I am paying a $7, $8 coffee, it's like, if I'm already there doing that, I have the money for that. I can.

Ivy Wolk (43:23)

No, exactly. If I'm already, like, out not making something at home and buying something extravagant, it's like, at least the person that I. That makes it for me or facilitates the making of it can get a little bit.

Jaime Garcia (43:34)

Right.

Jules (43:34)

I think this is also culturally, like, not up with the times because I do Maybe just because I was younger, but I feel like, you know, when I used to, like, go order at the counter at Pan, like, it wasn't a thought to tip. But it's just things have changed so much now. And, like, that's just kind of how the culture now is. You tip it into the order.

Ivy Wolk (43:53)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (43:53)

Also, I feel like there's a type of guy, maybe you guys, I'm wrong, but who is always, like. Who always makes this argument. Yeah. And that gets the real dry. I gotta tell you nothing if you gotta. If you're complaining to me about a $2 extra, like, we're not. We're.

Ivy Wolk (44:08)

You're never coming inside that guys in New York want to date a candid girlfriend. Not a cool girl. She got a lot of flack for this video. People were calling her, like, you know, the internalized misogyny allegations were, you know, spewing her way. I think, like, this is really true. Like, men in New York definitely have, like, an idea of the kind of woman that is dateable. I mean, most male comics that I know date girls that are, like, quiet and in grad school, you know, and it's like, that's a beautiful type of woman, you know, Love a queen like that. That. It's always guys that, like, don't actually have much to show for themselves or, like, don't themselves bring much to the table besides, like, being baseline, funny and charismatic. Like, want a very specific type of sort of subservient woman. Like, it's always a woman who. It's not like they're like, on some trad wife, but it's always like, guys want, like, a woman who, like, is quiet, I think, sort of naturally, at least kind of a lot of the men in New York that I'm around. And. Yeah, so I did agree with Steph on this one, because I think Steph and I have, like, similarly struggled in dating in New York as women who are sort of, like, as severe in our rhetoric as we are sort of in our Slavic American features. And so, you know, our faces sort of pull to a center. We've both got the strong chin, the strong nose, the strong brow, and also, like, the sharp tongue. And so I understood what she was saying with this, but was it. I think a lot of people didn't get it. So, Steph. I concur.

Jules (45:42)

I think it's like a certain type of guy, you know, it's like the boring, insecure guy that's probably.

Jaime Garcia (45:50)

He thinks it means something in an optics kind of way.

Jules (45:52)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (45:53)

Yes. It's optics. It's. It's curatorial. It's like, you don't want to date somebody that will better you or be interesting for you. Maybe it's just sort of like what you can present to other people. I mean, I think a lot of the reason why men do a lot of things is for other men.

Jules (46:05)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (46:06)

Yes, I agree.

Ivy Wolk (46:07)

Men are extremely homosocial that way. They do do things to titillate and each other the interest of other men.

Jaime Garcia (46:14)

I think so, too. In fact, we talk a lot about this on this show where it's like, if it wasn't for a boner and a pussy or any kind of, like, you know, sexual needs, I do think that they would rather be with each other all day.

Ivy Wolk (46:26)

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, like, yeah, guys when I was in college, like, guys that I knew basically, like, said as much where they were. Like, I kind of only so that I can have stories to bring back to my boys. Like. Like Hunter Gatherer as. Like, you kind of just want to posture and prove to other men that you're doing something with yourself. And it's like that kind of mimetic desire of, like, the wanting to want and seeing somebody else want something and then getting it. So it's like, men are just very.

Jaime Garcia (46:56)

I can relate to this in a way where it's like, I mostly dress for other women.

Ivy Wolk (47:00)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (47:00)

I couldn't give a shit what a guy thinks of what I'm wearing, like, at all. In fact, when he says I look good, I'm probably doing something wrong, right?

Ivy Wolk (47:06)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I have these, like. I bought these, like, stupid shorts on Depop recently that are, like, like, very. A kind of a pair of shorts that, like, would only be paired with a little fedora and, like, a vest in, like, a High School Musical. Like, on a High School Musical extra where they're, like, plaid with, like, a maternity waistband. Cargo shorts with fake cargo short pockets so the pockets don't lead anywhere.

Jaime Garcia (47:31)

Sacrileges.

Ivy Wolk (47:32)

Yes. Like, ugly, ugly fucking shorts. Ugly fudgeing High School Musical character ass shorts. But I love them, and I love the way they look. And, like, fudgeing. The guy that I'm dating was like, those shorts are hideous. Stavros Hockey is like, those shorts are fudgeing hideous. And it's like, okay, well, y' all dress like fudgeing shit. So. But then a really hot girl, I was like, at a birthday party wearing those shorts, and an extremely hot, cool girl with an amazing haircut was like, I love those where did you get them? And I was like, I'm doing something right.

Jaime Garcia (48:00)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (48:00)

If men don't understand it, you're doing something wrong. Right.

Jules (48:02)

It does make me feel bad though, cuz I feel like Dave hates how I dress and I don't care.

Ivy Wolk (48:06)

You dress so cute.

Jules (48:07)

Thank you. But he just longs for a moment where I might ever one day wear.

Jaime Garcia (48:11)

A dress, a sundress. Oh my God.

Ivy Wolk (48:13)

I hear this all the time. Hot. Jeans that are so low.

Jules (48:16)

Thank you. I know we see eye to eye.

Ivy Wolk (48:18)

You wear great jeans that are always so low. I'm like, her balls are going to pop out. Your jeans are always so low. And they're. But they fit and they're just hanging on. I'm like, that's your showing. Wait, you're giving us midriff.

Jules (48:30)

Thank you. We really were raised in the same asylum.

Jaime Garcia (48:34)

A red flag for me is if a guy is into lingerie.

Ivy Wolk (48:37)

Well, that's kind of gay.

Jaime Garcia (48:39)

Thank you.

Ivy Wolk (48:40)

It's a signifier of like, what sex is and what sex with a woman is. But it's like, that's not actually what it is. What it actually is, is like my pubes have like a clump of discharge. Like that's what sex with a woman is.

Jules (48:52)

Exactly.

Jaime Garcia (48:52)

No, I agree.

Ivy Wolk (48:54)

Wins and don't win.

Jaime Garcia (48:55)

Oh, I've had the clumps. The clumps.

Ivy Wolk (48:57)

Are there lube, like kind of congealed to the bush. It's like that's what sex with a woman is.

Jaime Garcia (49:02)

And if he pulls his dick out and there aren't clumps on his dick.

Ivy Wolk (49:05)

Right.

Jaime Garcia (49:06)

Did we even have sex?

Ivy Wolk (49:07)

Exactly. It's like we're split. We're sharing microbiome right now. There's yeast being transferred back and forth. We're volleying yeast. It's like, that's what it is. It's not a fucking love shack. Fancy, like, I don't know, pink lace bra with a matching panty and garter. Like, that has nothing to do with my life. That's Playboy magazine from the 70s.

Jaime Garcia (49:25)

Red flag. Telling you if a guy's like, I'm really into lingerie. Not sometimes. I mean, he like brings it up repeatedly.

Jules (49:32)

He probably wants to wear it, right?

Ivy Wolk (49:34)

No, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. It's like, why don't you put it on?

Jaime Garcia (49:43)

This is itchy. You try.

Ivy Wolk (49:44)

Yeah, you try it. Wouldn't you feel so gorgeous?

Jules (49:47)

Wait, wait, lingre. I see. I see a lot of sides here. Because to me, I also see, see, when a guy doesn't care at all about lingerie, That's a little insulting.

Ivy Wolk (49:58)

Well, if you like it, come with it. If you offer it. But if a man is invoking it, like, I would really like you to wear this. It's like, then put it on.

Jaime Garcia (50:05)

Exactly. Because if you already like it and it's some, it's already a part of your, you know, rotation. That's one thing. And he's like, oh, wow. I really like that. Yeah.

Jules (50:13)

Because there's nothing, I'm sorry. There is nothing worse and more just like degrading to your self image. When you like try and put on like a sexy thing and a guy literally doesn't know, notice. Yeah, that's like. Think about that angle for a second.

Jaime Garcia (50:28)

I do. And I have. And I kind of like it when he doesn't. I love when I try and like, in terms of just like underwear, say for instance, because I've gone really extreme. Jules, you can, you can speak to this. The panties that I'm rocking these days are not even considered panties. I don't know what they are, but they all hang. They're baggy.

Ivy Wolk (50:45)

I do the hang. I do like little boys like boxer briefs that like pool around the ass because they're like supposed to fit like a pull up underneath. Like, that's what I'm wearing. Disgusting Diapers.

Jaime Garcia (50:55)

Diapers. Purse to bed every night.

Ivy Wolk (50:57)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (50:58)

I Winnie the Pooh around the house just with a really ugly T shirt with hanging diaper.

Jules (51:02)

Good for you. You're just fighting, like you're just, I, I, I have a take and it's against you.

Jaime Garcia (51:08)

Okay, Okay.

Jules (51:09)

I think you are having a defense mechanism against like trying and being. And I know not all the time, but I'm just saying there could be embedded in you where you're like, I'm not going to try and I'm not going to be a little sexy because like, I've been with a guy where I do try and they don't care, so why bother?

Jaime Garcia (51:25)

Okay. So so to that I say I've done the variety of pant diapers. I've worn diapers to very pretty things. And the reason that I find it a green flag in my partner, like, he literally. Because I don't think very highly of men, he doesn't notice. He doesn't notice when I'm wearing a diaper or something very sexy. And it just takes the pressure off in terms of like. And even when I try, he wants to fuck me. Even when I don't, he wants to fuck me.

Jules (51:52)

But I'm not arguing against that. I think that's great too. I agree with that. But I just feel like if you do try, like, maybe a little acknowledgment would be nice and not to just.

Jaime Garcia (52:02)

In what way?

Jules (52:04)

Like, if you got like a push up bra or like, whatever the.

Jaime Garcia (52:08)

Why the push ups?

Jules (52:10)

Because you know that that's like the one thing that really, like, makes the difference is like, all the cleavage. You know, like just something that was really sexy. Like, you want to be noticed. You don't want it to be like, it's nothing.

Ivy Wolk (52:22)

The problem, though is my idea of sexy is so unbelievably skewed. Like, I've real this, like, only like the past year of my life have I actually, like, put any sort of concerted effort into trying to present as like, sexy or even like baseline feminine. Like, I used to dress like, I used to just like Turtle from Entourage like, every single day. And I'm kind of. We're doing that with the shorts, but the top is tight and that's the gesture that I'm offering you. But usually it is like shorts down in my calves. Like, my outfits all last year was like a flat brim hat backwards, a chain, a 3XL men's shirt, and then like shorts that went down to my ankles. And like, I was like, why is nobody trying to fuck me? Like, that's how I dress. My idea of, like, sexing up an outfit is like ripping a hole in a pair of fishnets and like, putting them on with, like, shoes that are, like, ripped and disgusting. And a dress that is like the worst color of all time, that has, like, too many buckles and it's like. And then eyeliner that like, goes all the way to, like, my temples. That's like, when I am like, I'm stepping out tonight. That's what the fuck I'm wearing. And it, like, still doesn't really work, but to me, it's like I'm figuring it out and so you're feeling it? I'm feeling it. What's frustrating? It's not really to me, what's frustrating is like, when a man doesn't notice anything. But what's frustrating is when a man can't see you trying. Because, like, when I dress like that and then I show up on a date and a guy's like, what are you wearing? I'm like, you can't see that? This is me, like, trying to be pretty for you. This is me trying to be sexy for you. Can't you just appreciate, like, the gesture, the sheer notion of it so when.

Jaime Garcia (53:53)

Was the last time you wore a sundress? You too?

Ivy Wolk (53:55)

I don't. I just don't dress like that.

Jules (53:57)

I know we don't.

Jaime Garcia (53:58)

That's just not a thing.

Jules (53:59)

I don't. Honestly. Dresses are not comfortable for me. Like, every once in a while I'll put one on and I feel really cute.

Jaime Garcia (54:04)

But there's something specific to sundresses. The flowy that like, I think it's.

Ivy Wolk (54:09)

Like a trad wife type of thing where it's like, you know, they've got the sort of like rouge loose bus that shows the cleavage where you could pop, you know, a tit over like the fucking bus. Like, feed your thousand children and then pop it back in and like go back to making the bread. Like, I think really it's just like the men talking about like the whole sundress thing. It is really just like kind of trad wife, conservative, Twitter brained, where it's like, these are again, like the lingerie. These are signifiers of what it means to like, have a woman in your house and have had sex with a woman. Like, it's not actually what any of it entails. But these are what men think. These are. Like the symbols of silhouette, literally is like me sleeping in a guy's bed for 16 hours a day being like, but I'm doing the thing. It's like the sundress, the lingerie. These types of things are like men being like. But that's what the thing is. And it's like, no, that's just maybe a part of the thing. That's a costume of the entire thing.

Jaime Garcia (55:01)

Right.

Jules (55:01)

I will never forget. Like, we were in New York, me and Dave and I went to this like, lingerie store and I got these like, sheer lace, like, sleeves. Like, obviously I know they're not. That's like, not the lingerie. That's like, not hot. But I thought they were so cool and they were, they were so cute. Like, like I'd wear like a baggy T shirt with like these like, whatever sleeves. And we went to dinner. We were at Foul Witch. And I remember, like, we were sitting there and he's like, like 10 minutes into the dinner, he's like, so we're gonna talk about these sleeves.

Ivy Wolk (55:30)

And that's the thing. I get that a lot is like when I'm. Yeah, I show up wearing something absolutely crazy and a guy's like, are we gonna address. Like, your eyeliner is like, literally all your hair is pinned back so your eyeliner can go even further up in your hairline. And, like, you're wearing a pair of, like, 7 inch, like, vinyl boots and, like, a dress with, like, I don't know, Morrissey's face on it and, like, ripped fishnets. And, like, you look fucking. You look like a Rocky Horror Picture show hooker. And, like, that's my idea of sexy. And I wish that men more so would be like, it's so amazing that you tried for me tonight. Instead of being like, truly, you look like I just pick you up, up under a bridge.

Jules (56:11)

I do end up liking it even. It's like, I both feel a little embarrassed when he does that. And then I also like it because it is funny and, like, we're obviously together. But, like, if it was not that comfort of, like, I would die. I would actually be. I would die inside and I would want to leave.

Jaime Garcia (56:28)

Speaking of Morrissey, Morrissey to me is really interesting. I went to one of his shows and he insists at the Hollywood bowl the entire menu that you could order from was, like, strictly vegan.

Ivy Wolk (56:37)

Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (56:37)

But, you know, he's like, outward hardly, like, racist and.

Ivy Wolk (56:40)

Oh, yeah.

Jaime Garcia (56:41)

So he is sort of like the juxtapose of, like, it can happen. You can really care about animals and.

Ivy Wolk (56:46)

Go full vegan and not care about people.

Jaime Garcia (56:48)

And not care about people at all.

Ivy Wolk (56:50)

Like, I mean, I fucking. Like, I've got to fucking. I've got his handwriting tattooed on me. I've got my lyric of his tattooed on my leg. Like, I fucking love that man and his work so much. But, yeah, he is like, such a. It's just like, what happens when a gay guy is so lonely that it rots his brain? Like, that really is what it is. Like, I mean, I'm seeing him at Radio City Music hall in New York on the 16th of September, and I'm like, so you have to go into every concert of his knowing that it could get canceled in a dime. You get there, Everybody loads in 30 minutes. Before he's supposed to start playing, somebody comes out and is like, sorry, I've seen him twice now. Both were shows that he showed up to. But it's like, you know, I'm like, reading, like, Red, like, the Morrissey, like, Reddit page to see. Like, and like, the show right before mine will be a show that he canceled or somewhere. And it's like, it's just like you.

Jaime Garcia (57:36)

But it doesn't matter. You're indoctrinated if you've been indoctrinated by.

Ivy Wolk (57:39)

Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing where it's like, I bought something On Courtney Loves Depop, that was already some. They sold it to somebody already, but didn't market as sold. And so Courtney Love stole $45 from me. And it's like, that's the experience, you know? Like, I would prefer, honestly, that too. Or that's, like, the same as getting something that she owned once. It's like, having her steal $45 plus shipping from me is like. Like, I got the experience.

Jaime Garcia (58:05)

That was also one of my. Live through this.

Ivy Wolk (58:07)

I have Courtney and Amy Winehouse tattooed on my arm.

Jaime Garcia (58:09)

Oh, God. I feel like Courtney is probably above all else because I'm never. I was never big into Britney or any of the pop starlets, but Courtney Love was the coolest.

Ivy Wolk (58:19)

The coolest, fucking coolest and the funniest. And, like, literally just had beef with absolutely fudgeing everybody. Yeah. I mean, to this day, still beefing with Madonna. Like, what's really funny, okay, is. So there was that that letter that came out a few months ago, that, like, open letter from the Broadway community against Patti LuPone after she, like, did that New Yorker profile where, like, was beefing with, like, Keisha Lewis and Audra McDonald. All this shit. There was, like, this open letter that came out. It was like, 4,000 people on Broadway, like, signed this open letter to, like, try to get Patti LuPone to, like, issue an apology to these women. And at the fucking bottom of the list, a woman who has never been on Broadway once in her life, Courtney Love, like, signed the list. It's like, bitch, you're messy too. Like, and that's what's really funny to me is about is, like, Courtney is, like, so messy and such a hating ass bitch. I think she just wanted to be a hater, and so she was willing to be a hypocrite for once second to just, like, sign this letter and pretend to be woke for God, I love her. Be a fucking hater. And it's like, the thing is, it's crazy for her to, like, sign this open letter against Patty Lupon because they have a shared enemy in Madonna, right? It's like the enemy of your enemy is also your friend, girl. Like, don't fucking be messy and sign this open letter. Like, you and Patty can talk about how you think, like, Madonna has no presence. Like, go hang out. You guys are basically the same, just in different industries. Like, Courtney Love and Patti Lupin opponent are, like, the same type of, like, nasty, like, bitchy, funny, callous older lady, just in different industries. And it's like, it's so sad. Like, I saw her name on that letter. And I was like, I appreciate that you're, like, committed to being a hating ass no matter what. But also, it's like, you guys could have a great podcast. They could have an excellent podcast. I love Courtney.

Jaime Garcia (59:57)

I love her so much.

Ivy Wolk (59:58)

She's so important.

Jules (60:00)

She really is.

Ivy Wolk (60:01)

God, they tried to say she killed her husband. And that's con. That's kind of like the apex of, like, allegations you can get as a woman when people hate you culturally is like, she killed a man. You know? Like, that's because they can call you a. They can call you a bitch, they can call you crazy, whatever, all this shit, but it's like, people will actually, like, take it to their fucking grave if you get an allegation of, like, killing a man.

Jaime Garcia (60:23)

Like Aja Argento.

Ivy Wolk (60:25)

Yes. With Anthony Bourdain. Exactly.

Jaime Garcia (60:29)

She will never escape those allegations.

Ivy Wolk (60:31)

No, exactly. If you get accused of, like, you know, being the reason that a man killed himself, like, you're. You know, people will never.

Jaime Garcia (60:39)

I feel like Ariana maybe got a. Got out of that a little bit, but it still sticks to her once.

Ivy Wolk (60:45)

It definitely does still stick to her. But yeah, Ariana Grande, she's kind of a rich text in a way. Like, Ariana Grande is somebody who actually, like, has truly been through unimaginable horrors. I mean, literally, a terrorist attack carried out in her name. What? How many bitches can say that?

Jaime Garcia (61:02)

Crazy.

Ivy Wolk (61:03)

How many bitches can be that famous? You know? It's like, that didn't happen to Taylor. That didn't happen to Beyonce. It didn't happen to Britney. Ariana Grande had suicide bombers at her concert, carrying out a terrorist attack in her name. Girl, you're famous. And it's tragic and it's so crazy. And that truly is such a crazy thing to, like, kind of have on your rap sheet of your career.

Jaime Garcia (61:24)

Crazy.

Ivy Wolk (61:25)

A terrorist attack carried out in your fucking name. I mean, not that many people can say that. That's so insane. Like, Ariana Grande has truly been through full trust trauma. Yeah. Ariana Grande is somebody to me, where it's like she kind of. She clearly has kind of a loose sense of identity. She clearly is somebody to me who kind of is. Like, with every guy that she dates, she sort of metal emphasizes and changes the pitch of her voice, the way she does her hair, all these things.

Jules (61:55)

Do you think her and spongebob are gonna make it? They broke up?

Ivy Wolk (61:59)

No, they broke up.

Jules (62:00)

I don't know if that's official word.

Ivy Wolk (62:04)

I think you're so the thing it's like with Ariana Grande and Cynthia Rivo, and they're like, weird, homoerotic, competitive eating disorder, friendship. It's like, that's the kind of friendship that you get when you're like in a theater program. In high school, these women did not sort of have like normal upbringings like that. They were like stars. And so, I mean, I don't know, I think something maybe became famous as an adult, but it's like she was always like, supremely talented. It's like, if you're like a mediocre talent in a high school theater program, you're going to find another bitch. And you guys are to going gonna like, fight to see who can be the best anorexic. And also you're gonna make out when you guys get drunk. They are now doing that in their 30s. It's that type of thing where it's like they're just doing it later. Ariana Grande dating, like the geeky theater boy when she's like the hot girl who's like the lead of the musical. It's like you're supposed to do that when you're 16. She's just doing it in her 30s. It's like celebrities work on an entirely different timeline than the rest of us. Especially if they got famous when they were young. They just, the milestones are just. They happen in different order. So we, we must be patient with Ariana.

Jules (63:04)

Okay, I know we have to wrap up, but one last question. Cause we're talking a lot about, like, pop stars being like, living out, you know, what they didn't do in high school in their pop stardom. Would you say though that Lady Gaga is like a full blown adult?

Ivy Wolk (63:20)

Yes, I would definitely. Like pharmaceutical company ads. Like, that's grown lady shit. Yeah, I think I would say Lady Gaga is a full blown adult. I would say, say, like, some of the choices that she makes in her film career are a little questionable. Where I'm like, you're trying to live out a childhood fantasy again where it's like, girl, why would you do Joker too? And why would you think this is a serious movie? You know what I mean? But in terms of the music and like the public image that she presents her music with. Yeah, I think, I think Gaga is like Madonna in that way, where it's like this, this pop shit is serious to her. This pop shit is like curated and smart. And she's always been an extremely distinct sort of like, aggregator of like, subculture and culture in general and then sort of reflects it back out to us in a really interesting and edgy way. And so, yeah, I think Gaga, especially now that she's like, you know, just posted up in her mansion with like, her kind of like a little bit fat, rich husband. And she's like, I take like in the commercials, like, I take my NER tech because I have to perform. And sometimes when I have a migraine, I can't do that. And then she's making like, like, you know, a billion dollars hand over fist for these commercials. That's grown lady shit to me. You know, Taylor Swift is not going to be like Cymbalta. You know, like, that's not going to happen. Ariana Grande is not going to be like, we go V, you know, I mean, maybe actually we go V, maybe. But you know, Ariana Grande is not going to be like Skyrizi. You know, it's like, that's not happening. But I do think Lady Gaga is a grown ass bitch. Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (64:48)

Okay.

Ivy Wolk (64:49)

And I respect her a lot.

Jules (64:50)

Okay? And on that note, I think we've seen it all.

Ivy Wolk (64:53)

This is done. My pop star summit. This is what I do. I like, liter anytime somebody gives me a hot mic. I'm like, so we're gonna talk about how fucking, I don't know. We're gonna talk about how Chapel Roan is a fake lesbian.

Jaime Garcia (65:07)

And wait, see, do you really think she's a fake lesbian?

Ivy Wolk (65:10)

I think she's what I like to call a reactive lesbian. My grandma, my grandma is one of these women where my grandma was so wronged by men that she was like, I'm a dyke now. And I think Chapel Roan probably, if she like really listened to her heart, was be biologically bisexual. But I think, like, at a certain point, it's like being gay can be a choice because you can kind of just choose to do that if it's not your initial truth. And I think Chapel Roan realized that, like, maybe culturally and, you know, emotionally it would be better for her to be a lesbian. Maybe that would add more peace to her life, maybe like coalesce with her sort of aesthetic more. And so for all intents and purposes, yes, she is a lesbian. But I look at her sometimes and I'm like, I know that maybe you kind of do like to have angry sex with a man.

Jaime Garcia (65:59)

I get that. I mean, there was a time where I almost became a reactive lesbian. And I totally agree with that assessment.

Ivy Wolk (66:06)

It happens.

Jules (66:07)

Yeah.

Ivy Wolk (66:07)

I saw it in my own grandmother. It happens to women. What's your perception of, like, Harry Styles, life and career before I was so.

Jules (66:15)

Disappointed because he would just date white women. But then now he's dated two black women.

Ivy Wolk (66:19)

So I dated Taylor Russell, then. Who else?

Jules (66:22)

Olivia Dean.

Jaime Garcia (66:23)

Right now. Oh, Olivia Dean.

Ivy Wolk (66:26)

Yeah.

Jules (66:26)

So I feel like. But to me, he's just like my end game. Like, I want to.

Ivy Wolk (66:32)

Do you think you were a One Direction girl? Yeah.

Jaime Garcia (66:34)

Do you think that if you had. If you had started liking One Direction a little bit older? Because I feel like there's some type of indoctrination that happens with us when we're in the third grade.

Podcast Host (Ad Read) (66:44)

Right.

Jaime Garcia (66:45)

And that's when we first, like, stumble upon, like, our first cross crush.

Ivy Wolk (66:48)

Right.

Jaime Garcia (66:48)

Like, I would still a fat Leo today.

Ivy Wolk (66:51)

Really?

Jaime Garcia (66:51)

And, like, with. With my whole chest and with my whole. And I probably wouldn't enjoy it, but I would have to, like.

Ivy Wolk (66:56)

You have to scratch that itch. Yes, absolutely.

Jaime Garcia (66:59)

Do you think that if you were like, oh, I like One Direction, but you were 15, would you have had that same, like, voracious kind of 15.

Ivy Wolk (67:08)

Maybe?

Jaime Garcia (67:09)

Because you don't like white guys.

Ivy Wolk (67:11)

I know.

Jules (67:11)

That's. That's also the problem. You're scared of white penis.

Jaime Garcia (67:16)

He's scared of white penis.

Ivy Wolk (67:17)

He's your one and only. He's your acceptor.

Jules (67:19)

I think I would just do a blind. Like, I just close my eyes when I'm sucking his dick, but I'd still do it. Like, I. He's just. He's so cute.

Ivy Wolk (67:28)

He's got curly hair. You could pretend he's Latino if you squint enough. That's true. That's true.

Jaime Garcia (67:32)

Yeah. Gosh, that was so great.

Jules (67:34)

Thank you so much. I know.

Jaime Garcia (67:35)

Ivy.

Jules (67:35)

Thank you for having her. Is there anything you want to plug.

Ivy Wolk (67:38)

If you live in Brooklyn, New York? My show Struggle Bus, which is a competition to see which comedian had the most traumatizing life, will be at Life World in brooklyn on fucking september 14th. My instagram is @wolkmindvirus2w o l k M I N D V I r u s 2. Follow me there for ticket information. And I'm always hopping around on tour, so you can find me there.

Jules (68:08)

And I am on Tour officially and September 12th and 13th, I'm going to be in Madison, Wisconsin, and I'm coming to Portland. Portland, Seattle, Denver, a bunch of places. You can get tickets@prettylittlebaby tour.com or the link below and anything else.

Ivy Wolk (68:22)

Guys, can we plug this? This is.

Jules (68:23)

Oh, yeah, Ocean Club.

Jaime Garcia (68:25)

Evolution Club's. My hair care line has hair care.

Ivy Wolk (68:29)

Thanks, Ivy.

Jaime Garcia (68:30)

Really good stuff. Go to evoceanclub.com or at evoceanclub on Instagram.

Ivy Wolk (68:34)

I'm excited to use this because my hair only looks good today because I used my mother's shampoo since I'm staying with her, but it always looks bad, which she use. She gets like custom stuff, like from like pros and stuff. So she like has the nice, but I use the dollar store, so don't do that. I know. I'll hook you up. Killing me, but.

Jules (68:51)

And as always, we'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Bye, everybody.

Ivy Wolk (68:54)

Goodbye.