Natasha Leggero and Sabrina Jalees Parenting Hot Takes

Summary

Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn
Episode: "Natasha Leggero and Sabrina Jalees Parenting Hot Takes"
Date: December 16, 2025

---

Overview

This lively, honest episode brings together hosts Khalyla Kuhn and Esther Povitsky with comedians and fellow parents Natasha Leggero and Sabrina Jalees, co-hosts of the podcast "Good Enough." The conversation dives headfirst into the messy, hilarious, and often contradictory realities of modern parenting. From postpartum struggles, intergenerational trauma, and parenting philosophy debates to practical, sometimes outrageous anecdotes about discipline (banana peels, anyone?), the group explores what “good enough” parenting looks like, breaking down Instagram-worthy "gentle parenting" ideals and championing the value of authenticity, boundaries, and self-compassion.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parenting After Trauma & Postpartum Recovery

• Khalyla’s Postpartum Bell’s Palsy:
  Khalyla shares a vivid account of developing Bell's palsy postpartum, and how motherhood brought unexpected physical and mental challenges.

  "Two days after I gave birth, I just—paralyzed." (01:37, Khalyla)
  She explains the lasting effects and lack of support she felt.
  "My postpartum anxiety was so horrendous. I was afraid of my own shadow... I couldn't sleep because I was afraid of everything." (20:03, Khalyla)

• Healing Intergenerational Patterns:
  The group reflects on complicated relationships with their mothers and how they aim to do better for their own kids.

  "I've become her abuser because everything she says I either have to correct or change—that's what she did to me... I'm working on that in therapy." (16:59, Khalyla)

• Postpartum Anxiety & Its Many Faces:
  Natasha and Khalyla unpack the difference between postpartum depression and anxiety, highlighting that not all postpartum struggles fit stereotypes:

  "The common misconception is if you have postpartum depression, it's like you had a baby and you hate it... But it's so different than that. It's actually hormonal and chemical, making you sad." (57:32, Esther)

---

2. Parenting Philosophies: Gentle, Authoritative, and “Fuck Around and Find Out”

• Gentle vs. Authoritative Parenting:
  Sabrina challenges the purity of the “gentle parenting” trend:

  "Sometimes you need to be gentle and sometimes you need to be firm... I hate the gentle parenting trend's idea that we’re reacting to abusive parenting by going the total opposite direction." (06:36, Sabrina)
  Natasha adds:
  “It's been proven that authoritative parenting is having strong boundaries and being very loving about it.” (08:03, Natasha)

• Discipline, Boundaries, and the Role of Tone:
  All agree that clarity and tone are essential—but so is loving guidance and sticking with limits, even if it feels uncomfortable.

  "If you just give your child one note ... and keep moving on, you're powerless. You have to create stakes for your child without hitting them." (11:23, Sabrina)

• Banana Peel Discipline & Rewriting Trauma:
  Khalyla shares the memorable family practice of getting to choose one's “weapon” for a beating—sometimes a banana peel. This leads to a comedic but poignant exchange about the absurdities and darkness of parental discipline in previous generations.

  "Choose your banana peel." (12:08, Khalyla)
  Natasha jokes:
  “I’ve never heard of ‘choose your banana peel.’ That’s just wacky!” (12:11, Natasha)

• "Fuck Around and Find Out" Parenting:
  Sabrina advocates for letting kids experience natural consequences, within reason:

  "Letting the kids sort of discover the consequences of their own actions. Like, if they don't want to wear a coat, let them freeze." (29:39, Sabrina)
  Natasha tempers this:
  "That’s just called being a deadbeat parent." (29:47, Natasha)

---

3. Praise, Motivation, and the Hazards of Overthinking

• Rewards, Food, and Anxieties:
  The hosts debate whether rewarding kids with food leads to unhealthy relationships.

  "Now food is a reward... you're gonna have an eating disorder like me!" (15:43, Esther)
  Sabrina argues that anxiety about every small parenting action is more contagious than occasional imperfection.

• Learning to Delegate:
  Addressing new moms’ exhaustion, Natasha advocates for accepting help and delegating, letting go of the urge to control every detail in the home:

  “Figure out the ways you can let go... I need this [break], and go do something for yourself that’s not taking care of the house.” (52:41, Sabrina)

---

4. Aging, Parenthood Timing, and Modern Womanhood

• Motherhood After 35:
  The women share experiences of becoming mothers later, and the accompanying social and internal pressures.

  "Forty sounds perfect. I had a newborn in my arms when I turned 40. I think this feels correct." (25:21, Khalyla)

• Freezing Embryos & Fertility Realities:
  Sabrina passionately encourages people, especially queer people, to seek out fertility options earlier, noting the coverage available in some professions:

  “Freeze some embryos, get donor sperm... build what you want your life to look like, and you will attract.” (43:02, Sabrina)

---

5. Family Dynamics, Sibling Relationships, & Accepting Limitations

• Supporting Family Through Tragedy:
  Esther discusses her sister’s struggle after her ex-husband’s death, admitting the difficulty of helping loved ones resistant to therapy:

  "I can say the things that I feel will be helpful, but I’m also like … it’s above my pay grade." (37:29, Esther)
  Sabrina and Natasha remind her sometimes all you can do is listen.

• “Being a Single Mom Isn't a Block Anymore”:
  The group explores the “womanizer to single mom” phenomenon and the way family composition and perceptions have evolved.

  “Men need women, and women don’t need men.” (46:09, Sabrina)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Parenting Pressures:
  "There's no fucking ... you can't put a title on a parenting style and like, that's the one. Because sometimes you need to be gentle, and sometimes you need to be firm." (06:36, Sabrina)

• On Newfound Fears After Motherhood:
  "In a nutshell, that's what I hate the most about being a mom—now I have a level of fear I never had before. I had a lot more joie de vivre before." (58:12, Natasha)

• Banana Break Comedy & Trauma:
  “Dr. Drew says we all recreate our trauma and I think this is why I love bananas. I’m obsessed with bananas!” (28:24, Khalyla)

• On Late Motherhood:
  “I think late 30s is kind of—the natural time to be getting into it. Unfortunately, our wombs are like, ‘peace out, bitch. I’m on TikTok. I’m retired.’” (24:32, Sabrina)

• On Delegation:
  "Delegating some things off your plate so you can do something that gets you excited, whether it’s play tennis or have a drink with a friend." (52:03, Natasha)

---

Audience Q&A Highlights

(From 49:36 onward)

• Q: Will it get better with two under two?
  The consensus: Yes, eventually. Accept help. The payoff is sibling closeness, but the beginning is undeniably hard.

• Q: Is it normal to feel rage at people who ask for the baby but not about you postpartum?
  Absolutely normal. Both Khalyla and Esther recount feeling territorial and anxious after birth, with Khalyla admitting extreme protectiveness that required later apologies.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:37 — Khalyla details postpartum Bell’s palsy and trauma
• 06:36 — Sabrina and Natasha break down parenting philosophies
• 11:23 — Importance of tone and boundaries in discipline
• 12:08 — “Choose your banana peel”; discipline stories
• 15:43 — The food/reward debate and eating disorder fears
• 20:03 — Khalyla and her mom’s support in postpartum anxiety
• 24:32 — Embracing late motherhood, fertility, and shifting expectations
• 29:39 — “Fuck around and find out” parenting
• 43:02 — Fertility planning, embryo freezing advocacy
• 46:52 — Khalyla’s mom changes after starting Lexapro
• 52:03 — Advice on delegation and seeking/accepting help
• 57:32 — Explaining postpartum anxiety and depression nuances
• 58:12 — Natasha discusses new fear as a mom

---

Tone & Style

Consistently raw, self-deprecating, and irreverent—with plenty of dark humor, cultural references, and candor about vulnerability, mistakes, and healing. The episode is dotted with inside jokes, jabs about aging, and absurd parenting confessions.

---

For parents—or anyone interested in the realities behind Instagram-perfect motherhood—this episode offers solidarity, comfort, and comedic relief, all in the signature Trash Tuesday style.

Transcript

[A]

I want you to hit me in the next 10 to 15 seconds.

[B]

Here. I'll do it to me. I'll do it to me.

[C]

Ow.

[B]

That really does.

[D]

Are you serious? Okay, Kalila, we have a huge announcement to make.

[C]

I can't believe I said yes to this.

[D]

It is booked. It is on. It is happening.

[C]

I can't back out, you guys. We're doing a live show.

[D]

Tickets are on sale. Like, it's not. It's. It is too late to change your mind.

[C]

It's too late to back out. Yeah, I'm doing this.

[D]

Los Angeles. We are doing our first live show in so many years, and I have been foaming at the mouth.

[C]

But listen, it's going to be my first night out ever since having a baby.

[B]

You're right.

[D]

That is so.

[C]

Because, you know, it's like, past his bedtime. I put him to sleep, so. You guys, I'm sacrificing my motherhood duties to be there with you guys.

[D]

I'm not. I'm good.

[C]

She'll be very pregnant.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

Oh, my God. It's going to be so big.

[C]

You're going to be like four weeks away from birth.

[D]

So, you guys, Wednesday, January 28th, at the Comedy Store in the main room.

[C]

I'm gonna love seeing everybody. Jenna will be there, Jules will be there.

[D]

We have a bunch of regulars booked and ready to go.

[A]

Sluggies galore.

[D]

I'm just really excited and I want this to go well so that we can do it more often. And I think it's going to. So get tickets, get your tickets. It's going to sell out. And we'll see you there in January. A fun little post holiday. Like, something to look forward to. Post holiday pre birth. Welcome back to Trash Tuesday. We're back in the new studio. We love. We're so grateful. We're pretty. Can you believe it? I've had to look at your ugly face. I'm just kidding.

[C]

No, it's true. I had Bell's palsy.

[B]

Are you serious?

[C]

Yeah. Like, two days after I gave birth, I just. Paralyzed.

[B]

What?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you kidding me?

[C]

No. That's what happened. And then everyone was like, everyone fudgeing gaslit the shit out of me. They're like, oh, give it a couple of weeks. You'll be fine. But it turns out that's not the case with postpartum moms because we're anemic. Healing. Our bodies are fucked. So mine never fully healed. So everyone can off with their metal.

[D]

Is it not fully healed? It's not really?

[C]

Yeah. I Have synchinesis. It's. I'm probably going to have some type of, like, lack of movement and dysfunction for the rest.

[A]

Was that the first time that that happened?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No way.

[B]

And percentage wise, how often does this happen with mom?

[C]

I don't know, percentage wise, but I know that your chances of getting it are three times higher in pregnancy and postpartum. But I don't know how your postpartum unit was. But my nurses were not nice postpartum like I was. As soon as the baby was out, like I did Cedars.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I didn't sleep.

[A]

They helped me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But then labor and delivery was incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But postpartum was a nightmare for me. And they stick you in that really small room and it's like, long term.

[A]

The post, it's like, easy to be, like, fun and charming in the big delivery room because it's like you're in, you're out. It's like doing like a five minute set versus doing like a 24 hour marathon set.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Wait, should we introduce?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

It's not that they need an introduction, but they just started a new podcast I've been watching every week. It's so good. It's about parenting. They're so honest and, like, I just don't have anywhere else to turn for that kind of material in my life. Please welcome the hilarious comedians Sabrina Jalees and Natasha Leggero.

[A]

What a good intro. Thank you.

[D]

And, Natasha, I think I maybe tell you this once every three years. I do have a framed photo of us in my office. And it's every time I remember that I had that, I'm like, that's weird.

[A]

What are you guys doing in the photo?

[B]

Are we in a hot tub?

[D]

Yeah. I had to frame. I just. I love you so much. And I'll just leave it there, and then I'm gonna be normal the rest of the time. I'm so excited you guys are here. The podcast is called Good Enough.

[A]

It's called Good Enough. Yeah. And we also were like, what is this garb? There's nothing for parents that isn't, like, about, you know, being some sort of perfect version.

[D]

It's like, how bad you are.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like when we get together, we connect and it makes us feel better to talk about, like, yeah, this is fucking hard. And so we thought we should. We should spread that.

[D]

Give, like, a little chill parenting, you know, vibes. I want to ask you, Klile, what's synkinesis that you said you had? Oh, so it's Basically say it right?

[C]

Yeah. Synchesis, synkinesis. Yeah. So when your nerves are, like, coming back online, they're supposed to come back online a very specific way, like the original way, except now they're confused, so they cross wire. So when I purse my lips, my eye will shut.

[A]

This is convincing me that we all are AI and this is the way it was explained to you. It was like, well, your modem went down, and so the coding was crossed.

[B]

And this is from giving birth. Like, the shock of, the stress of.

[C]

It, the blood, Like, I guess the blood loss.

[A]

I want to say you look great.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

I also want to say I know a couple. So I've known a couple people that this happened to.

[B]

You do?

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. It actually. It happened to our donor on his wedding day, and it happened to another friend, and everything chills out over time, but it's, like, not as fast as you want it to be. And I will also say there's a strength in having just a face that doesn't move. In fact, look at every famous actor. And I'm not talking about Botox. I'm talking about, like, when I'm realizing is, like, the only time I'm booking work is when I'm like, what do you mean? Like, it's like holding your face.

[B]

You're saying it helps your acting to, like, underact.

[A]

Just shut every part of your face down and whisper. And they're like, who's this powerful bitch?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Like, you're. I am always envious of the girls on the red carpet who are just like, ugh, serious.

[D]

Could you imagine it would be so embarrassing?

[C]

It feels foolish.

[A]

Directors continuously telling you, like, stop moving your face.

[B]

Like you just want to look out into the ether. Like you're, like, looking for some serious thing. You know, I'm always hand on my hip. Dimple.

[A]

Well.

[D]

Cause we're playing stand up, and we're like, hey, everybody, we can't look at the business we're in. Like, we can't be taken seriously on the red carpet.

[A]

No.

[B]

You don't think it's out. You could still.

[D]

No, she.

[B]

She's beautiful.

[C]

It's over for me.

[D]

She's in comedy.

[C]

I got this.

[D]

Oh, yeah, you do always do that.

[A]

I'm always doing things with my hands, too, and I regret it so deeply. And it's always, like, you're, like, surrounded by real actors who do it all the time. You could just look to the left or right and just do something exactly like, what they're doing, but instead, too much hand work.

[D]

Yeah, wait, I want to talk about gentle parenting one, because I don't fully understand what it is. But, like, do you guys subscribe to that? Or what is your idea of what it is? Have you explored this at all?

[A]

We definitely talk about it often on the podcast because really, always talking to people about, like, what's working for them with their parenting, what are they, what's challenging them in their parenting. We had one of the women from Big Little Feelings, you know that account. It's like a. It's a parenting account. It's got like 4 million followers. And so it's a lot of memes or a lot of, like, sort of infographics and ideas on how to parent. And I think the first thing to acknowledge is, like, there's no fuck. You can't put a title on, like, a parenting style. And like, that's the one. Because sometimes you do need to be gentle and sometimes you need to be firm. And what I hate about the gentle parenting trend is this idea that we are having this huge, like, polar juxtaposed reaction to the old guard of, like, abusive parenting.

[B]

And it's like you get to pick out your belt. Yeah.

[A]

And it feels like gentle parenting, as if you're going to take it sort of like to. To The T feels like it was created by a trembling person that was hit by a belt. You know, don't say no and don't know. Lighting shouldn't be too harsh. It's just like life is fucking hard and kids need both positive and negative feedback. And you don't give it like a troll and you don't spin everything about your kid like it's positive and somewhere in the middle, you'll find your way. And either way, hopefully your kid ends up in therapy because, I mean, isn't that better?

[B]

I mean, I think it's been pretty proven that authoritative parenting is the thing that we're supposed to be doing, which is having very strong boundaries and. But being very sweet about it and being very loving about it. Whereas, like, authoritarian. Like, I had a lot of boundaries and no one was nice about it.

[A]

Authoritative sounds so.

[B]

I know it sounds dictatorship. I know, but it's not. Authoritarian is what my family was, which was like, this is my house. This is how you do it. You're in trouble. Here's your consequence. We're supposed to be having strong boundaries, but doing it in a more loving way.

[C]

Yeah, like loving guidance.

[B]

Yeah. Everyone I talk to, it seems like that's the goal. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I'M not exactly sure where gentle comes into that.

[D]

Do you feel like you're able to successfully execute that or do you struggle with it?

[B]

Yeah, I struggle. It's the work, you know, like even how like a relationship, there's always going to be that little percentage that you're always working on your issue, you know, in relationships kind of. It's the same issue over and over again. I have it in my marriage. And with your kid, it's almost like they're gonna have their thing that you're gonna have to work on. My child's very strong willed and doesn't want to take no for an answer ever. And so that is my particular thing I really have to work on and really work with saying no and not being upset when she's, when I make her upset by not letting her have everything she wants. It's so hard for me. And I, I know friends who. That's not their trip with their kid. They gotta work on something else. Their kid has social anxiety. Their kid. You know, it's like you have your thing with your kid and I think it really starts to rear its head when their full personalities are coming out now that they're eight. Both of our kids are eight or seven. They're gonna be eight.

[A]

Yeah. I think we both are very kind to our kids and have almost like a friendship and not in a way. Don't you write your comments. I'm a parent, okay? I'm doing parenting things. But when you're trying to approach the journey of like shepherding your child through this life with joy and, and infusing a lot of joy and like, just by way of living in la, these kids are spoiled. You know, they have too much and you can't cosplay your way into making them feel like they don't have pretty much everything that they want and need. And like, it becomes about. I feel I almost like slip into a character which is bitch. You have to be bitch sometimes. Like, Shauna and I will sometimes look at each other and we're like, okay, he's taking it too far. Let's be. And we start and we're like. And it's like we have to agree because if, if we were in our real selves and dealing with him as if he was our friend, we would tell him a note and then keep on moving on. But if you just give your child one note about something that actually does suck, you know, they're being unkind, they're not listening to you, they're not respecting you. You say hey, respect me. They go, yeah, yeah, move it along. And if you don't take a moment to make it, like, no, no, no, no. Did you hear me? Because the way that you said that to mama is unkind. And a lot of the parts of your day revolve around all of us bringing positive energy. So if you are going to decide that you don't care about the energy you're creating, then we're going to have to create different energy. It's not dissimilar from, like, the dad in the car being like, you want me to take it? You know, it's like. It's a version of that. But I think we, like, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and then.

[B]

The baby does that better, though.

[A]

Of course. But you know what? I think everybody needs some sort of tone shift and eye contact that makes. That has stakes for your child. Otherwise, you're powerless. And we have to create that without hitting them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We can't hit them for it. Hitting them was the easy.

[C]

My son is so young, but even he knows this. The different tones where it's like, you know, he's too young. So, like, I want him to explore his surroundings. There isn't. I don't say no a lot, but if it's involves safety, like, the chords. My tone is my tone. And then he stops, and he's like, okay, that. That sounded really different. Yeah, but like you, I grew up very, very authoritarian household. The beatings. Choose your belt. Choose your banana peel. Choose your weapon.

[A]

Like, choose your banana peel.

[B]

You get hit with a banana peel.

[A]

That's just wacky.

[B]

Well, I have to say, I was not hit a lot. I was spanked with a paddle.

[A]

I've never heard of choose your banana peel.

[D]

She's from the Philippines. Yeah, the Philippines.

[B]

Banana peel with the banana peel.

[C]

I think my mom just had her own version of martial arts. That.

[A]

That was her version of gentle parenting. She's like, I'm doing it with a banana peel.

[C]

But this is so soft and nutritious. Yeah, yeah, she. She was. She was a wild one.

[A]

I got hit with a pineapple bitch.

[C]

The paddle sounds, like, pretty, like, intentional and, like, across the lap with a paddle, right? Yeah, that was, like, the. The vibe.

[A]

BDSM vibes, too.

[B]

But you guys, that was pretty normal. Yeah, I'm a little older than you, but, like, in the 80s, like, that was how people parent. I mean, I didn't know anyone who didn't get hit.

[C]

I don't.

[B]

Everyone got hit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Oh, you're Canadian.

[A]

My mom one time took out a wooden spoon, and we just kind of were like, this is obviously not happening.

[B]

But she at least got the spoon out.

[A]

I think that I got one on the bum, like, a little. But, like, it was never. I think that it was already sort of phasing out.

[D]

And that's like me when I bring out the spray bottle to my dog, I'm like, shaking. I'm gonna spray you. And then I'm like, I'm just kidding. I love you. Give me kids. Can't do it.

[B]

Oh, my God. Esther, it coming.

[D]

I know.

[C]

I have no.

[A]

You guys need to be. Be a little bit. I do not. Guys. You guys have to. Because do you want a nightmare child, or do you want a child that understands energy?

[D]

I even did the shadiest thing the other day. Like, she. Oh, she wanted something. And I was like, daddy says, you can't have that. And then Dave looks at me across from. He's like, what the. Like, I don't know what else to say. I'm so sorry. We need to be a team. I'm like, I feel. Because it's so interesting hearing you guys. Like, you guys are at the stage where, you know, the personality, you know what you're up against. Like, I. Because she's 20 months, it's like, I don't. I'm trying to, like, get us. I don't know.

[A]

Well, my younger one, I also don't know. But there's little hints, you know, like, him pushing something off the table and smiling is like, okay, I see you. They give you little hints of what they're going to be up to, and it is really hard. This is something kind of. Maybe more of a conversation for when they get older, because it's. They also say, you know, I was just watching this video on, like, hitting. Because sometimes Rowan will hit me, and I'm like, no. And he'll be like, oh, this big reaction. Even though it's saying no, he's into it. So I have to troubleshoot and figure out, like, a different reaction. Neutral. But I kind of just put him in his cage. There's that. You know, those cages. Shawna doesn't like for us to call it a cage, but it's a cage, right?

[D]

Oh, like the gated communities.

[A]

I drive into the valley. You know, the little play spaces?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I just put them in there.

[A]

I go, no, I put him in there. And then he's like, why am I stuck in here? And hopefully he is. Realizes it's because he's Being physically abusive.

[B]

With me, it's just. It takes a lot of repetition. And I think that really just trying to get your boundaries going is very hard.

[A]

And also incentivizing within the boundaries. One thing that I feel is working is like incentivizing being good, you know, so that. Because if everything's always good, no matter how they act, it's like incentivize the little treats that you were going to give them anyway. You know, we were going to order pizza anyway. But Wolfie, if your handwriting is really great for the sentence, we're ordering Domino's. You know, it's like attaching.

[D]

See, that scares me because then I'm like, now food is a reward. And like, you're gonna have an eating disorder like me. Like, okay, don't.

[A]

If it's feeling eating disorder, y, then that's one thing. But I just think, like, we. Measuring every single thing that we. We do also just creates anxiety, which is more infectious, I think, than just trusting that, like, you love this kid. The thing that is not intuitive for all of us is being so we have to create the character and stick to it together in your partnership and make it feel like there is a repercussion when your kid misbehaves or doesn't. Doesn't respect you.

[D]

Kyla, do you ever talk to your mom, like, about, like, how were you so hard on me? Like, maybe she could give you some tips.

[C]

Like, she just did it the way her parents did. There's no. I don't think she thought anything any more than that. Also, she was 22, 23.

[B]

Do you like unsolicited parenting tips, Esther? Yeah, I actually do too. But I'll tell you who doesn't. My mom. Sure, your mom doesn't either.

[C]

My mom is just like, I think I've just bombarded her with you up so hard, like for the past like.

[A]

15 years, every time you eat a banana.

[C]

And the way that I. I'm working on this in therapy, I don't know how to be nice to her. And I've become her abuser because it's like everything she says I either have to correct or, or change because that's what she did to me. It's almost like a knee jerk reaction. So I have to kind of stop that at its tracks and be like, hey, she's a, she's a changed, evolved woman. She's really a great grandmother. She's kind to you. She helps you in motherhood. But it's that kind of knee jerk. It lives so deep in My body all the time. She' beat me. So that's. I'm working on that. Like, that's been the forefront of my therapy sessions. It's like, how do I treat her? With loving kindness.

[A]

You have to move through that. This is a real feeling that you're upon. And I think this is very common. And Sha, my wife also, I think has moved through a similar thing where it's like you have this baby and on one level you relate to your mother in this new way where you're like, oh, my God, this was the role that you had. But then she was 22.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And only had the guidance of her abusive past.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And her response to any sort of anxiety or tension was to try to beat you into a good girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is so misguided.

[B]

But you are a good girl.

[C]

I am a good girl.

[A]

You are a good girl. And I feel like moving through this phase, which is. And being like real to yourself about it and moving through it in therapy, I feel like you will actually get to a place where the goal place that you're talking about will feel more natural.

[C]

Yeah. Where it doesn't have to. I don't have to stop and think about. Because when she goes home at the end of the day, after she's helped me out with my baby, with vacuuming, with folding my clothes, doing laundry, like working for you. She is the best grandma.

[B]

Like crazy.

[C]

She.

[A]

That's sounding like full service nanny.

[C]

She is, she is.

[B]

She is a wonderful forgiver.

[A]

I know. I know. Yeah.

[B]

I gotta deal with my mom. She's not doing.

[C]

She's incredible, you guys. Like, I, like, I cannot even believe how Lucky and babysits. Everything. Everything. And then when she goes home.

[B]

Victim of the times.

[C]

I know. And when she goes home, I like, I cry. I'm like, why did I, Why did I say this to her? Whatever. And then I go backwards and I text her. I'm like, hey, Ma, thank you so much. I love you. You're the best. But it's always after I can't do it in real time. I snap at her and I don't know how to.

[D]

Boyfriend, I love you. Please stay.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

She probably has childhood trauma that made her unable to do her own thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

She then just kind of did what women did then or what they were told to do.

[C]

Yeah. It was just a. Yeah. But she's the best.

[A]

Incentivizing it too. Where you're like, whatever movement you have in healing this relationship with your mother is going to be a gift for Your child and like demonstrating that. Yeah, Sean, I have seen her have such a journey with my in laws and it's like, it does feel sort of like all of the work that you're doing to. To like feel the thing, execute it poorly, apologize, and know you're headed to a place where you don't want to. To have to feel so loaded about it is gonna pay off and it's gonna be so beautiful. It already is.

[C]

When I look back now at the. The newborn trenches, I mean, my baby was a refluxy baby, so he wasn't a baby that liked to be put down on his back. And my mom knew because I had Bell's palsy. My postpartum anxiety was so horrendous. Like I was afraid of my own shadow. Yeah. I. I was afraid to hold my baby next to a window because I thought a stray bullet would come through. Like my brain was just so.

[B]

Bullet. Why?

[C]

Because that's where my anxiety thought if I hold.

[A]

She had the baby in America.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what postpartum. I never experienced postpartum. So part of postpartum is like horrifying in visions of like.

[C]

The anxiety is safe. Yeah, It's. It's not like rooted in any reality. It's just like you've taken it to a whole new cinematic level of like final destination outcomes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And during this time, I couldn't sleep because I was afraid of everything. And my mom, for three months, every night would hold that baby awake. Like she. And she would tell me, I'm not going to bed, cuz I know that me sleeping will make your anxiety worse, cuz you're going to be like the baby, you know, and he couldn't be laid flat because of his reflux. So she held him every night. Every night for 12 hours. And I was like, okay.

[A]

I bet she's also in. In within that, like, labor. She's also apologizing for the way she did it with you.

[C]

I think so.

[A]

And the way she sees you acting with your child and the way she's emulating that is like you really are teaching her how to do it more lovingly. And that's so beautiful.

[C]

Yeah. And I love when she says you're an incredible mom. Like, she's never really said you're any. She's never really given me any compliments in my life. That's just not part of our love language at all. She's never really said, hey, I'm sorry for, you know, the banana peels. But that was. It was so big. To hear that from her, she's just like, I am, like, so in awe of you. Like, like, this is. You're doing it right. I didn't do it right, but you're doing it right.

[D]

I can't believe your mom says that.

[B]

Yeah, that's amazing. That takes a lot. Because a lot of people in that generation, they're not willing to go there. I mean, we're, we're seeing Esther Perel on our algorithm every day. It's like we are going to be a different group of people. Like, you know, because we're all so introspective now and therapized and thinking about things in just a different way. Even thinking about what kind of parent you are didn't used to be a thing.

[D]

On my deathbed, I will still be thinking about how last year my mom said to me, your child would be better off in daycare than at home with you. That will not go away.

[A]

I hate to be a mom apologist, but I do think kids should go to daycare. I think it's like, I've dropped my kid off at daycare. He's got his backwards hat on, he's got his co workers.

[B]

I think you're right.

[A]

They all sit down. You know, it's like we are all sort of in this board game. It's like we don't. If we lived in the jungle or, or the board game of our life. Wasn't this like, western society that we are all kind of training our kids up into?

[D]

I agree. I mean, I. We don't do daycare, but whenever we go somewhere where it's like, you know, a story time or like, there's a bunch of other little kids watching her just mess around with. Yeah, it's so fun. I don't know. That's so cute.

[A]

It's really cute. And it's the beginning of them starting to feel this, like, this like, independence and confidence. That is. Is so cute because it's like you still your pants, you know, like, you, your pants. You need me so much. But, like, in this configuration, this is your job. I really see it as a job.

[D]

How do you guys feel about. Because I assume we're all here, women who became mothers, like, later, post 35ish. Whatever. How do you guys feel about that? Like, because for me, a big thing that I dealt with after I had her was all this, like, shame and regret that I didn't want her sooner and that I didn't try sooner.

[B]

I mean, I just feel like if you had her sooner, you Wouldn't have had the resources to have the have her in the way that you wanted. And you wouldn't have the choices that you may have.

[A]

And you certainly would have regrets about things in your career that you wouldn't have been able to see through.

[D]

That's so real.

[B]

And you and Benji were doing that show, you would have just been like, with a baby, nursing, wouldn't have the bandwidth.

[A]

I think it's like now that women are seen as humans, there's a shift and I think late 30s is kind of in all of my peers. That feels sort of like the natural time to be getting into it. Unfortunately, no one's the natural time.

[B]

Not for our.

[A]

Yeah, unfortunately our wombs are like, peace out, bitch. I'm on TikTok. I'm retired. That is the time. Right. It's like I feel like 20s, you're trying, you're like figuring out who you are. 30s, you're finally like honing in on your voice and you're starting to actually be able to create some sort of stable career out of it if you're lucky. And then by the end of your 30s, maybe you've got 50 cents in your pocket to like make this thing happen with the baby. Not 50 cents, adjust for inflation. This was recorded in the year 1722.

[B]

But also this is brand new, like in the past 10, 20 years. Like you know, know this, this way that women can have kids is like.

[A]

Yeah, it all makes sense.

[B]

Happened.

[D]

Do you feel that at all or like was that any part of your postpartum struggles or are you. No, no.

[C]

I'm so glad I waited.

[D]

Really.

[C]

Okay, that helps me to hear 40 sounds perfect. I had a newborn in my arms when I turned 40, I was like, I think this feels correct.

[B]

And esther, you look 14, if that helps.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[B]

That helps us close. Some of the up close you would.

[D]

Be scared, but thank you.

[A]

I'm close to you. Different light maximum 15.

[D]

Up close lighting is everything. Do you ever wake up sweaty, uncomfortable and you realize like the temperature in your bedroom, it can really make or bake, make or break or bake your sleep. That's why I've switched to miracle made sheets. They're inspired by NASA technology and use silver infused used temperature regulating fabric to help you sleep perfectly all night long. Thank you to their antibacterial silver technology. Miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. That means fewer odors, fewer wash cycles and way less laundry. Upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest go to trymiracle.com trashtuesday to try Miracle Made Sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code TRASHTUESDAY, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's try Miracle.com Trash Tuesday code Trash Tuesday at checkout. Thanks to Miracle Me for sponsoring this episode.

[C]

This podcast is brought to you by the Perfect Jean. So I've been really struggling with gift ideas for my partner this holiday season, but I think I've found a solution and that's the Perfect Jean. What's cool about the Perfect Jean is that it moves with you. They're super comfortable, they look like real jeans, but feel like loungewear. And I think for me that is the ultimate combination. The Perfect Jean has six fits, a size range from 26 to 50 inch waists and lengths up to 38, giving you 5,000 ways to find your perfect match. Whether you're thick, whether you're skinny, short, tall, no matter where you fall, the Perfect Jean has you covered. These jeans are made for real bodies, not mannequins. Perfect Jean is a great value at only $79.99. And for a limited time, our listeners get 15% off their first order plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC. Or Google the perfect gene and use code TrashTuesday15 for 15% off. That's 15% off for new customers at ThePerfectGene NYC with promo code TrashTuesday15. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Fuck your khakis and get the Perfect Jean.

[D]

This is our banana break, which now I realize triggering.

[A]

You guys do this every time.

[B]

That's why I love bananas.

[A]

Talked about the beatings here.

[B]

Are we all gonna get to try it out or that'll be too.

[C]

You know what?

[A]

I really don't mind, Natasha, if you want to slap me with a banana.

[B]

I can't finish a banana. That's the problem.

[A]

I'll finish this in three seconds.

[B]

It's gonna be the actual banana too. Why do you guys do this?

[C]

Because Dr. Drew says we all recreate our trauma. And I think this is why I love bananas. I'm obsessed with bananas.

[B]

We recreate our trauma. How do you stop recreating your trauma?

[A]

There's something really deep going on with this, right? This being not just something that, like I thought you were with us because she said that she was beaten with bananas.

[D]

It's our banana break.

[C]

Can I tell you the hair clip I was about to wear to today?

[B]

A banana.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

It's in my bones, you guys.

[B]

I'm on your side, Kalila, but maybe I shouldn't say this. It just doesn't seem like it would hurt that bad if someone hit you in the face.

[D]

I'm always minimizing her beatings. I'm like, I'm like, but look at how hard working you are. And like, you're such a good swimmer because of it. I'm like, I wish I had that discipline.

[B]

Like, I'm so jealous too.

[C]

You are. You were a swimmer, right?

[B]

I was on swim team. Mom made me do it. But I do think there is something to making your kids do things. And it's freaking hard. I feel like Esther, I don't want to tell her to do anything. I don't want to give her a piece of fruit that's out of season.

[D]

See, I'll do that. Cuz I'm like, you won't notice. I'm having the better one. Will the producers explain to us what is around and find out. Parenting.

[A]

Kind of just the opposite of the gentle parenting. Just letting the kids sort of discover the consequences of their own actions. Right. Like put.

[B]

That's just called being a deadbeat beat parent.

[A]

Is it? I kind of am. Kind of like that.

[D]

You're a deadbeat, but it's like, so you. If they don't want to wear a coat.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

Then be like, okay. And then they freeze.

[A]

I just feel like one thing, our instinct when our kid falls is wrong. They're made of like gelatin, you know, like I was taking a bath outside. This is my reminder to everyone. If you have a claw foot tub, access to a claw foot tube, put her in your backyard. You're in your own Viagra commercial every day. That's. That's the next step. So you hook up the hot water. I take a bath outside often with my baby. And yesterday he was trying to get out and I was doing around and find out parenting because I was like, let's see. Let's see if you can get out. So he put his turkey leg over and then he did a action stunt, full flip over. Oh, my God. And fell on his head and neck. Very shocking.

[B]

Good for our podcast.

[A]

This is great for our. But no, I'm saying he was pretty okay.

[D]

Pretty okay.

[B]

Says he calls it the broken arm tax. Like, what's the worst that's going to happen. Your kid might get a broken arm, but they're out playing in the trees and that they need to. Because the whole thing about this parenting is that people are way too cautious about outside and completely not cautious at.

[A]

All about where they go on the Internet.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, how do reverse that? So what you're doing is like, hey, let them do their thing. I'm not hitting you across the face. Sabrina. On the face. Is that what they would do?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Just my mom. I don't want to put this on all Filipinos.

[D]

I did. Sorry.

[B]

I can't do it. I can't. I'll do it to myself. I'll do it to myself.

[D]

What?

[B]

You want me to do it to you?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like really do it?

[C]

I can I give you a pro tip?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you really want maximum impact, you're gonna have to have this.

[B]

This hanging head.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

This is the handle.

[C]

That's not the handle. You hold it from here.

[D]

Want this?

[A]

I want you to hit me in the next 10 to 15 seconds.

[B]

Here. I'll do it to me. I'll do it to me.

[C]

Ow.

[B]

That really does.

[D]

Are you serious?

[B]

I'm sorry. Are you mad? You told me to do it.

[D]

She begged me.

[A]

We have it mad. I asked for it. It's like a. I think it will get red. Yeah, it is. Natasha, you're into it.

[D]

It's really that bad?

[C]

It's a couple fingers in it. Like three fingers.

[B]

Definitely, like, it's definitely a slap.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't really slap yourself across the face.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

I do think it's hilarious. And I do wonder if it should be mixed into gentle parenting. I think if you gentle parent 90% of the time, but then 10% is banana time in the face. I think it could offset the damage of gentle parenting.

[B]

Well, I have to say, like, this is interesting. This. Fuck. Fuck around and find out. So how did you end up? You're like, okay, so he did cry.

[A]

I had to kind of decide in my psychotic mind whether I was gonna rewrite what happened. But he did cry. But I let him have the minute. I. I held him. I put him back in the bathtub and then I let him play with a. I distracted him with like the wad. The faucet. And then he got into the faucet. I think it's like comforting, you know, when they need it and moving on to something else. They're so at the age of out the. The are my younger. And your kids, they're so easily Distracted. And I think it's like, to me, the psychology of it is like, bad things happen and oh my God, here's something interesting. So let's focus, let's divert the attention instead of like doubling down and oh my God, it's shot. It was shocking for me to see. I'm like, this is paid stuntman work, what you did.

[B]

But also like, when they get older like this, you have to think about, like, what is my parenting style? How's it going to affect. Affect me so around and find out. In this example, they're like, okay, well, he. It's cold out. I know it's cold out. He doesn't want to wear his jacket. He's just gonna have to find out. Cut to. I'm gonna have to have an annoying kid complaining they're cold, asking to borrow my jacket. And instead, what I've started doing, which Sabrina's wife told me to do, which has been one of the best things for the stage of parenting, I'm at a very willful 7 year old. I say, time to put on your jacket. She goes, I don't need a jacket today. And I go, it's not an option, babe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what Shauna told me to say. And now it's. I say it with everything because it's sweet, it's nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's also authoritarian in the sense where it's like, there's. This is what you're doing.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The tone of it is, did I stutter?

[B]

But it's also like, like it's not an option. It's firm. And you know, that's really been challenging because part of me is like, yeah, just let her find out she's gonna need a jacket, you know. And then the other day I made her take a jacket. She didn't want it. And we left it at the restaurant. It was really hard to get it again. And you know what I mean? It's like part of me is like, well, this was annoying. But, you know, it's no.

[D]

To keep them.

[A]

You do everything. You do everything to keep them safe. You try your best to have everything that you need when you get out the door. But I will say, like, I'm kind of the dad. Dad. My kids call me Baba, which is we're doing for dad.

[D]

I thought, why did my daughter call me Baba?

[A]

Because she's Pakistani. And I actually wanted to talk to you about that after this wrap, is that you're raising her as a white feminist.

[D]

That's my name.

[A]

And she's actually a South Asian feminist. But yeah, I do not have every single thing that I need when I get out the door. And that's maybe again how I'm fuck around and find out. But I also think it's like good for our kids to know they will be so pampered and taken care of if Shauna's out the door with them. They're gonna have snacks, they're gonna have water, they're gonna have. And like my kid, not my little baby, but my kid who's seven, gonna be eight. It's like you might want to start thinking about if you're gonna be thirsty later, you might want to pack your water. I don't have one, dude. I don't know.

[B]

I will never go to the beach with what I need.

[A]

You promise?

[B]

It doesn't matter.

[A]

Natasha, do you promise?

[B]

I just can't do it. And I do feel like she should be remembering things and she doesn't and never will.

[D]

Wait, okay, I have to bring something up off subject, but I just feel like I need advice. My sister, my favorite topic.

[B]

I thought you were an only child.

[D]

I am a half only child. I have an older sister from my mom's first marriage. She's eight years older.

[A]

So.

[D]

Okay, legally I am considered only child cuz I, you know, I'm annoying and whatever, so. And selfish. She legally in my family, like, like we on our group text, like, we definitely are free. Like problem dump, right? Like we just let it all out. We don't hide. Whatever. And most of my sister's problems, I'm like a huge about. I'm like, this is your fault. You suck. Like, whatever, I hate you. Like, stop doing this. Okay.

[A]

She should have a drink with your mom.

[D]

But I feel so bad because two months ago her ex husband took his own life.

[A]

Oh my God.

[D]

And that was the father of her two children. And this is like, that's like traumatic as like I can stand children. Yeah, it's like your kids lost their dad in this horrible tragedy that like, makes no sense and like should never have happened. But she keeps like, I've noticed. She'll just like keep texting like every day. Every few days. Like, I can't believe this happened. Like, I'm crying outside the my son's football game. Like she's clearly really struggling with it. And this, this is the one where I'm like, yeah, like, yes, I. And I, you know, I try to say encouraging things, but she is that type of person that won't go to therapy and like, I just Don't. It's like I can say the things that I feel will be helpful, but I'm also like in over. It's like above my pay grade and I don't really know how to help her if she's. If it's not like with a professional. So I don't really know what to do.

[B]

But what if she just. Cuz this is a problem I have with people is that I always want to fix their problems or help them and maybe it's more about listening.

[A]

Yeah, I think you have to listen because I think when you say she's the kind of person that doesn't want to see a therapist, a maybe this becomes a catalyst for her to be like, I cannot manage this and talking to you and having you listen is not enough. Here I am a year later, it's not feeling any different. I'm going to need to do something different. Maybe that could be a silver lining from this deeply tragic thing.

[D]

Yeah, it's also really hard because like I, you know, I'm on Lexapro for my anxiety and then it's like I see all the symptoms that I have in her and I'm like, I know this would help you. And I do say it because I am, you know, I'm just like, I'm telling you, this is the one subject where I'm really nice when it's about her and her ex. I'm like, you fucking loser. But like with this I'm like, I understand, like I see, you know, and I just know it's not going to happen. I think I'm just struggling with. I think this is like a, A probably a recurring theme with my relationship with my sister is like seeing her struggle in ways and wanting to fix it but having. Being completely powerless.

[B]

And she doesn't put her kids in therapy because of this.

[D]

Her, the daughter, my niece is in therapy and my nephew isn't because I guess he keeps saying he doesn't need it, but I'm like, he probably does.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, isn't that like kind of like as we stretch into our 40s now, it's kind of like this is the big new lesson is like I feel like there's like something in your 30s where you're like, I'm tailoring my life. You're cut out. You know, like you're like, I'm not, I'm not having boundary. You're like titillated by these ideas of like I can choose the design of my life. And then at 40, you're like, well, you know what if I boundary every fucking person out? If I'm like, my sister's not taking any advice, and it's really bumming me out, so I'm just gonna cut her out. It's like you start to be like, oh, actually, I'm just need to accept. And it's really hard for me too, because I. You might be able to tell. I'm like, I'll tell you how to do everything the way I do it. You know, it's like, that's part of my personality. But it's like, I think that now I also need to make this amendment to my personality. And I'm working on it to be like, I am the kind of friend. I feel like when people talk to me, I'm quite opinionated. And I've got sort of this, like, prescriptive advice, but I also want my friends to know and my family that, like. Like, once I've given it, if you find yourself circling around the same drain, and it's again, I'm like, labeling it a drain, which is judgment. I'm still here for you, and I love you.

[D]

Yeah. And I think it's hard, too, because I actually am the kind of person where I want to hear your opinions. I want to be told. I want to change. And that's kind of how it is, like, with my parents too. Like, we'll all sort of, like, hear the people out and, like, take. Take sometimes, like, really take the advice, take the action or whatever. And so I don't know. I just. I'm like, I would listen to me. So why aren't you.

[C]

I just.

[D]

It's a frustrating thing.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Sorry that she's going through that.

[D]

I know. I feel really. It's like. I genuinely do feel really bad. And for a while, her last problems with, you know, this ex that she couldn't get over, I didn't. I was like. I mean, I felt bad, but she's a different person. No, my s. Well, my sister. Yeah.

[A]

No, but I'm saying that she couldn't get over is not the one that died.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. I was not nice, and I was.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

I guess it's like empathy for the fact that whatever her nature and nurture was, it built her to be someone who is less likely to troubleshoot and take action. And it's like. I guess that's also a cool thing to think about for our kids is like, troubleshoot and take action. Like, that things that are troubling will come up, and these are maybe Little gifts where we can try and demonstrate that this is not going to like, like pull us down. And this doesn't mean we need to be stuck in the sadness. We can feel the sadness, but we can also have plans of how we're going to get into some other brighter chapter.

[D]

Yeah. And that's so real. Cuz it's like we have different dads, so that makes us really different. And then also like eight years apart, our childhood's obviously completely different.

[A]

Your choice too of like part of your nature that you like see a commonality with her that gave you the symptoms that made you say like, I think Lexapro could help me. And then that you tried it and then that it you found the dosage that works. And then that you're also giving people the gift of like talking about it and being open about it is like, demonstrates a completely different sort of like neuro pathway that you have that has not been built for her. So it would be like a completely new path. It's, it is a bummer when you're like, I mean my thing that I'm talking about with everyone and their dog is like, freeze your embryos if you see. Because, because I'm so passionate, I'm holding my baby, it took us a long time to make the second one. And I'm like, I just want to help anybody that, that can do anything preventative or like helpful to themselves to empower themselves. Especially queer people that are like gonna have to go down that path anyway if they're, if they don't see adoption as like the, their sort of like path.

[B]

Well, adoption is not that easy either.

[A]

It's, it's not that easy. And like, none of it is easy. But like the best thing you can do is confront it sooner. Especially like people that are in the Writers Guild have coverage. It's called carrot fertility. The coverage and, and a lot of people have jobs. You can ask.

[C]

Great. Yeah.

[A]

Freeze some embryos, get donor sperm. If you know a, a gay dude in your life that's like, is open to it, like, like figure out what the other piece of the puzzle is. If by the time you're ready in your late 30s, early 40s to make a family, you haven't found your love yet. Like we had Ricky.

[D]

More gay people.

[A]

I want more gay people. I want more ever. I want everyone to be able to access the joy of being a parent. Because growing up I thought when I came out that that was something that I couldn't have. And now that I'm like, I have it. And it feels so great. I'm like, everybody should know that you can access it. It is hard work, but when you tack the earlier, you tackle it, the better. And we had Ricky Lindholm on our podcast, who also had, like, her story is incredible. And the lengths that she went to to find her baby, to get her baby. It's like, such an incredible story, and it's so inspiring. And after she had her baby, she fell in love with Fred Armisen. Cute dress for where you want to be. Build for what you. What you want your life to look like, and then you will attract just. I just do think that it's such a worthy path to take if you're interested.

[D]

Well, it's nice that it's even an option.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know that I would have done it on my own.

[A]

I would have.

[B]

I wouldn't have, because I saw my mom do it with three kids, and it was a nightmare.

[A]

I just know that you, me, everyone on this podcast is cute enough that someone's going to be attracted to the whole package. You know, it's not like I'm.

[B]

It doesn't have to do with cute. It has to do with your personality.

[A]

Cute is a full. When I say. I say cute, I mean, like, you know, the way when. If I say queer, it's like anyone who's done something different, I mean, like, cute, like, big, broad, cute umbrella. If you're like, you know, you work on yourself, you're a worthy partner. I think if I would have had a baby on my own, somehow that I would have found a little cutie to trick into being. Well, I have part of the whole thing.

[D]

I have this weird theory that's, like, no one agrees with, but I think that men who, like, typically are like, like, you could call them, like, womanizers or whatever, like, they can't settle and they just keep dating and whatever. They're never going to commit. I feel that those men often do end up with a single mom because there's something in them that they were looking for a mommy. There's something about it. I don't know the alchemy, but I think that then they. They go, oh, this is. This feels right. And they marry a single mom and.

[A]

They ruin her life.

[D]

I've seen this happen.

[A]

Absolutely ruin her life.

[D]

I can think, my dad is one of them, and I can think of other examples of, like, I'm not going to name names, but, like, famous men where, like, they were, you know, players or whatever, and then they end up with A single mommy because they need a mommy.

[A]

Well, I just think that, like, being a single mom is not such a block as it used to be.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, these men are faced with the idea that they will end up alone eating soup at a table by themselves when they're 16.

[D]

Right. And then they see this woman, like, feeding a child. They're like, like, wait, what flavor soup is that?

[B]

This could work.

[D]

I need this.

[B]

Well, you know, the bachelor lifestyle doesn't age that well. I mean, it's like. There does come a time. I think you're probably on to something, Esther.

[A]

It's true. Men need women.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And women don't need men. Women don't need men.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

My dad was in his 40s, using paper plates, and my mom came along and he changed his mind about his future.

[A]

She's like, feel the weight of this.

[B]

She had a. She had a daughter.

[D]

A seven year old. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Not to backtrack into banana territory, but we're obsessed. So my mom just started Lexapro and she has ascended into a version of herself that I now realize was buried by her trauma all these years. Who she is now is such a joyful, like, silly, funny person.

[B]

From the Lexapro. You think? Yeah, she just updated it on that.

[C]

And I'm like, who are you? She's like, singing songs and dancing and being silly, which is so not my mom. And I'm like, oh, that's like you. That was you this whole time, just buried underneath all this, like, rubble.

[B]

How do you know it's not the drugs?

[C]

Oh, I think it is Lexapro.

[D]

But Lexapro, like, takes the edge off your anxiety. Like, as a. As a user.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, can you snort it? It.

[D]

I don't know how that would be.

[A]

The best way to take. I know.

[B]

Okay. As a laser, it's not, like, making.

[D]

Me happy and silly and fun. It's just like taking away the spiraling that could then make room for me to, like, be a little bit more fun, you know, I'm not. By the. I'm definitely not having this joyous.

[B]

But her mom just upped her dose.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This explains the vacuum.

[C]

It's the ascension. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

She's actually vacuuming less on Lexapro because keeping my mom. She has ocd, right. So it's not. Her thoughts aren't as obsessive anymore, so she can actually cope. Vacuuming was like her coping mechanism. So now she can sit still and converse and sit with her feelings.

[A]

Every old person deserves to have some Sort of ssri. Some sort of lift. Some sort of Lexapro. Why not?

[D]

You know, I think every old person deserves a new vacuum.

[A]

A new vacuum. Their own tick tock account with a great algorithm and some Lexapro.

[B]

I also think your mom's living the dream. Like she gets to help her daughter. I think so Raise her child. Like, to me, that's like the ultimate. Like. Okay, there is some success that happened.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because first of all, your kid is healthy and alive and it just gave birth. I don't know. That's definitely a goal. Yeah.

[C]

I think it woke something up in her that had been dormant for a while. But Another thing on TikTok, speaking of vacuums, those TikTok vacuums are legit. I know everyone's into the Dyson and the Shark and whatever expensive whatever made in China. The dupes. I was such a non believer. They work. And they're like 70 bucks and they work the same.

[D]

Really? I always see the ad for the like, kid one. I want to get that. Get Ace working.

[C]

Yep, they work. I hate to say it. I caved and I got one for my mom and she was like, like. And she's like the vacuum, you know?

[A]

She is, I guess.

[C]

It's lasted over a year so far. It hasn't stopped. Yesterday my partner broke four plates. We all vacuumed with a little shitty tik Tok vacuum. And it don't just picked up all.

[B]

The ceramic past that. No one breaks four plates.

[C]

We did. Because it was actually not his fault. He was like, he cooks a lot, but he was pulling. My mom tried to put stuff on top of it and it slid.

[B]

Your mom lives with you guys?

[C]

No, she lives a couple blocks away. Wow. Yeah.

[A]

There's just some questions for you guys. Some parenting questions, hopefully.

[D]

Okay. From Liz. I have a 15 month and a 3 month old. Does it ever get better? LOL. I found myself saying it'll be worth it one day. And then realized how selfish that sounded. Oops. But there's got to be some payoff.

[A]

Oh, Liz, you did it all a lot. Very fast.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

I'm bit off more babies than you could chew.

[D]

I'm really actually so jealous of that timeline.

[B]

What? That timeline you want?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

That's one that's exactly 12 months apart.

[A]

You would need so many more Alexa pros with that timeline.

[B]

But Esther, talk me through that. Why?

[D]

I think because my age gap with my sister was so ginormous that like, there's something about, like the closeness that is really appealing to me. And then Also, do you see what.

[A]

Liz is going through?

[D]

Also, my husband is like a hundred years old and it's like, we gotta. I never wanted to like go older than my dad cuz I always felt like I had the oldest dad and he was 44 and Dave is 47. So I'm like, we gotta.

[B]

I see.

[A]

Go a little faster.

[D]

We gotta move.

[A]

Well, you're gonna feel like this, but that's okay.

[D]

It's too late. I, It's. I waited too long. But Liz.

[A]

Oh, wait, you are pregnant.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And you do have. You are gonna be.

[D]

We're gonna be 20. No. They'll be like two years apart.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Benefit is that they will be closer in age. They'll be able to play together. They'll also fight over the same things. And you, you take the good of the bed.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But for Liz, who's struggling, for Liz.

[D]

I would say this absolutely is going to be worth it. One day you're gonna have two babies that are so close together. And I see that in my sister's kids. And they have the most magical bond I've ever seen. And I know Kalila grew up with that. Kind of a close 14 month.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So the question of. Of it'll be worth it one day. Will it get better? Is like, of course.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But when you're struggling, you don't, you know, I never see the light. I don't think I'll ever not be pregnant. Like, I get it.

[A]

She could also do Lexapro.

[D]

I don't think she needs Lexapro. This is just hard.

[B]

Also. I feel like my instinct, and I don't know if this person has a partner, but my instinct when I had a baby, and my instinct always is to just do it everything on my own, you know, like, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. But sometimes you might have to surrender a little bit and, and you know, Liz, you can maybe tell your partner, if you do have a partner, I need you to. This isn't okay. Like, I need Wednesdays off. I need you to. To dinners for the rest of the week. Like a little bit of delegation. Is that what the word is?

[A]

Yeah, delegate.

[B]

I think delegating like some things off your plate so you can then go and do something that gets you excited, whether it's like play tennis or go have a drink with a friend or whatever it is.

[A]

That's good advice.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Three months is still so baby.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Three body.

[C]

Yeah. Her body is still probably from the first one. Yeah.

[B]

I remember we got this woman to come help us with dishes. Like when we were like deep into the throes of like she would come at like 6am and sneak in and just do the dishes.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Even like little help in little areas can be very helpful.

[D]

Helpful.

[A]

I also think when you were talking about like postpartum, I think that there is something that happens. I didn't carry either of my babies and I in seeing the way it from the outside but like from a, as a, as a white feminist on the outside, as the non carrying parent, I feel I witnessed this for my wife which is part of the postpartum is this like urge to control how things go down for your baby. It's, it's out of protection. But acknowledging that actually one other big important thing for your baby is that they have a mother whose sanity is intact and trying to control each aspect of these spinning plates will drive you crazy. And I just, I agree with Natasha where it's like you figure out the ways where you can, even though the baby is only three months old and the other one's only 15 months old, where you can let go, go and say I trust that they will be safe in someone else's, under someone else's eye for X amount of time. I need this. And go do something for yourself that's not taking care of the house. And if the house falls apart, it's like this is the time where the house is going to be upside down.

[B]

Also watch an episode of the Gilded Age. They like literally never even looked at their kids. Like there was like wet nurses. They didn't even rest everywhere. Like you never had to even look at your children. So you know, you're doing, you're killing.

[A]

It is wet nurse people that would breastfeed for you. I think that's pretty cool.

[C]

I feel like at this rate I could be, I could be your wet nurse. Well, get me up.

[B]

Yeah, that would be interesting. I'm surprised more women don't do that.

[C]

If you're interested, I can, I can hook you up. I'm drug free. You know my lifestyle.

[B]

You would let her baby suck on your teeth?

[C]

If she needs it or wants it. Sure.

[B]

You know, I wonder how often that happens.

[C]

It's a lost art form. Yeah. You know, it's such a sisterhood. It's just like a deep meaning to, for me at least like helping because I know like in the beginning the first four months of breastfeeding was a nightmare for me but. But yeah, my nipples are primed now for wet nursing. It's been almost 15 months. I'm still nursing. So hit me up. Hit. Hit me up. Anyone?

[D]

Okay, one more question. I'm freshly postpartum and I absolutely love my baby and my husband but hate everyone else and have such a strong rejection and rage towards anyone who asked to see my baby but does not ask me how I'm doing first. Is this normal? Yes, I just am. Or am I just being an angry mama bear? Will this feeling ever end? Yes, yes this is normal and yes, this will end is my quick answer.

[B]

So see cuz I I kind of lopped my husband into the group of people that I hate as well. So it's nice that she's like, oh I just. I love my family but everyone else makes me crazy.

[D]

I kind of had a little bit of that where I was like, like I don't want to. We had visitors a little earlier than I would have liked.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Which is tale as old as time. That happens to everyone pretty much on Reddit I feel like in the parenting forums. And yeah I was like I was not chill about it. I was not cool. I'm like I don't really. I'm not loving seeing you hold my baby.

[C]

I. I'm on the extreme end of this and that I wouldn't even allow my in laws to touch my baby and he was already six months old. Feed my b. Nothing. Nothing. Change a diaper. My postpartum anxiety just wouldn't was like having any kind were like she's fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I feel really bad. I had to apologize and just be like hey, like I just going I don't understand why my brain is operating.

[D]

Yeah but I respect that you held your ground. Like I didn't, you know, like I was like I guess I have to just like let this be and I wish, I wish I was so uncomfortable that like I wish I would have been been a or whatever and just been like no, I. I'm not there yet.

[C]

That was a monster. I had a huge urge to take my baby to a secluded place at top of the mountain and nobody breathed his direction. My. It was. I was so in the head.

[B]

Wait, you know what's crazy? I always thought because I was never diagnosed with postpartum, never had it. I always thought postpartum was and I'm sure this is a version but the moment gets very depressed because she had a baby. That's what that's how it was in my head. But hearing you guys talk about it, you're like I was crazy scared that something could happen to My baby. Cuz I definitely had that.

[A]

Yeah, I think that you also. We were doing an episode where someone said like your birth. And you're like, oh, I didn't have a birth. And I was like, what are you talking about? You have a kid? She goes, well, no, I had a C section. I'm like, that was your birth.

[C]

That's a very intense birthday than birth.

[A]

Yes. Like postpartum means like the era after giving birth. You sound like my.

[D]

My dad is like, postpartum, is that when the mom wants to kill the baby? I'm like, no, it's not that.

[B]

But I just didn't know about it cuz I know. I never knew mom for sure.

[D]

For postpartum is just first of all, the, you know the term for the time where you're after you had your baby and there's postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety.

[B]

Oh, I see. Anxiety is more about the baby, right?

[D]

Yeah, yeah. But depression too is like, like, I think people think the common misconception is if you have postpartum depression, it's like you had a baby and you hate it and you wish you didn't and you regret it. But it's like so different than that. It's actually like the hormones and the chemicals are just making you sad and it's maybe not even you. You're. You still love your baby and are happy with your baby, but yeah, you.

[C]

Probably had some level of postpartum anxiety that you didn't know was postpartum anxiety.

[B]

I still have it though. I never went away.

[C]

Like, yeah, I feel like it probably won't.

[A]

I love Natasha's reversals. She's like, oh, yeah, I didn't have that. Good luck with that. To us. And you're like, wait a second. I am that.

[B]

To be honest, in a nutshell, that's what I hate the most about being a mom, is that now I have a level of fear that I never had before. I had a lot more joie de vivre before I gave birth. And now you know that, that part of me, the freewheeling. Let's see what happens.

[C]

She goes to sleep, she dies. I think. Same, same.

[B]

She's dead.

[C]

Mine too.

[B]

I hate it though. That's who I was.

[C]

Me too. I would just, you know, take any random flight anywhere and have myself a time and I don't even want to leave 10 minutes anywhere. I'm like, in case I die, like, who's gonna.

[B]

I would. White water rafting without a helmet. I just thought it was funny. What the Hell, I would do whatever.

[A]

We're glad that you're not doing that anymore.

[C]

I would.

[A]

Dancers on the Empire State Building top.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Little base jumping.

[A]

I think there's like, it's. You get older and you start to value your life and that's a good grounded thing. But you are going, you know, you're going to. Taking. You take huge trips with your. We. We were all in Italy together a couple summers ago.

[C]

Wait, how old were you when you went on that grand RV tour with. Did you have a baby then?

[B]

Yeah, I took a baby on an RV tour.

[C]

How was that? Cuz I feel like I'm right around the corner from.

[B]

It was okay. I mean, the thing is when they're little and all these people calling in and the. The ages. Esther's baby is. And your baby is. It's like they're kind of your. For a while. You know, it's like you can kind of like fit your lifestyle pretty easily because they have. They don't go talk yet. Yeah. You know, they're coming with you. But I do love this version better. I like when they come into their personality. Yeah. You know, and not that your kids don't have personality personalities, but like, you know, they're just like these cool humans that now you're.

[A]

Their little.

[B]

Are obsessed with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know.

[D]

Well, thank you so much, everyone. Thank you for being here for a little parenting special with the Good Enough podcast host, Natasha Leggero and Sabrina Delis. And everyone should check out your podcast.

[A]

This was so much fun.

[B]

I'm so glad that you two have babies. Oh, thank you.

[D]

Nicest thing to say. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Well, we're creating hopefully cool kids.

[A]

Our war kids are guaranteed cool.

[D]

And as always, we'll see you guys next week with a brand new episode.

[A]

Like Follow, Subscribe.