The Bush is Back w/ Stella Barey & Rudy Jules

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Bush is Back w/ Stella Barey & Rudy Jules"
Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn
Release Date: August 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "Trash Tuesday," hosts Esther Povitsky and Khalyla Kuhn welcome returning guests Stella Berry and Rudy Jules Posner. The conversation delves deep into personal experiences with sexuality, mental health, and the evolving dynamics of the sex industry. The episode offers an unfiltered look into topics often deemed taboo, providing listeners with raw insights and relatable anecdotes.

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Understanding STDs: Urea Plasma and Mycoplasma

Stella Berry opens up about her struggles with misunderstood and under-tested sexually transmitted infections (STIs), specifically urea plasma and mycoplasma.

• Stella Berry: "I was on the edge when I was getting UTIs, like, every two weeks. Yeah, I was." (09:08)
• Jules Posner: "It's a little bit more of our unmasked version of ourselves, and I think it's our best work." (02:31)

Stella explains how traditional tests often miss these infections, leading to chronic discomfort and recurrent UTIs. She emphasizes the importance of proper testing methods, such as urethral swabs, to accurately diagnose these conditions.

• Stella Berry: "Urine tests don't really work. They're not accurate." (11:52)
• Jules Posner: "So, it's technically an STI. You have to treat your partner for it." (11:55)

The discussion highlights the lack of awareness and routine testing for these STIs, urging listeners to seek comprehensive testing if they experience persistent symptoms.

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Sexual Practices and Personal Experiences

The conversation takes an intimate turn as Stella and Jules share their personal experiences with anal sex, fluid exchange, and the physical and emotional aspects involved.

• Stella Berry: "I'm so sorry. Why do I have to start?" (06:38)
• Annie Lederman: "You're our nanny. You can't hate kids." (62:43)

They discuss the boundaries they've set in their sexual practices to maintain safety and consent, opening up about awkward and humorous moments that arise from navigating these intimate acts.

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Building Hidden.com: Revolutionizing the Sex Industry

Stella Berry details her venture into creating Hidden.com, a sex worker-owned platform aimed at providing better monetization and support for performers amidst increasing censorship and competition from large companies.

• Stella Berry: "I started building a porn platform called hidden.com." (17:19)
• Jules Posner: "You're the person to sort of really lead this charge because you have lived it." (29:38)

She emphasizes the platform's unique features, such as a "For You" page akin to TikTok and a storefront for seamless content sales, aiming to empower sex workers by giving them control over their content and earnings.

• Stella Berry: "We have the best chargeback protection so people can't buy your content and refund." (29:33)

The discussion also touches on the looming threat of AI in the sex industry and the necessity for platforms like Hidden.com to safeguard performers' likenesses and rights.

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Relationships and Mental Health: Stella's Journey with Bipolar Disorder

Stella opens up about her tumultuous four-year relationship with a partner suffering from bipolar disorder, highlighting the emotional toll and the eventual need to end the relationship for her well-being.

• Stella Berry: "I have to end this. I can't let those people in my life." (38:28)
• Jules Posner: "You're so clear on the fact that you're gonna take you for what you are." (43:32)

She discusses the manipulation and codependency that plagued the relationship, emphasizing the importance of recognizing red flags and prioritizing one's mental health over toxic relationships.

• Stella Berry: "He was harassing my family. I was making him so codependent." (39:52)

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Hormones and Their Impact: Lexapro, PMDD, and Pregnancy

The hosts and guests delve into the profound effects of hormones on mental health, particularly focusing on Lexapro, Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD), and the hormonal fluctuations during pregnancy and postpartum periods.

• Stella Berry: "Knowing that I'm capable when I was on Lexapro because anxiety didn't cloud me anymore." (47:50)
• Jules Posner: "When I was pregnant, I loved the way my mind operated." (51:15)

Stella shares her experiences with Lexapro and how switching to birth control pills alleviated her PMDD symptoms, leading to a more stable mental state without the side effects of reduced libido.

• Stella Berry: "I got off my Lex recently because I finally got on birth control pills so I don't ovulate anymore." (48:04)

The discussion extends to postpartum depression, with Jules and Stella expressing the extreme anxiety and depressive states that can follow childbirth, highlighting the need for greater awareness and support for new mothers.

• Jules Posner: "My therapist says those scenarios aren't just scenarios. They become whole movies in your head." (58:28)
• Stella Berry: "Life is not the avoidance of suffering. Suffering is what makes life valuable." (65:29)

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Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on personal growth, the importance of setting boundaries, and the continuous journey towards mental and emotional well-being. Stella and Jules encourage listeners to prioritize their health, seek support when needed, and remain vigilant in recognizing unhealthy relationship patterns.

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Notable Quotes

• Stella Berry: "We're just 2 S.L.U.G.S (Sexy Little Ugly Girls) unloading their trauma, intrusive thoughts and wild takes for all the sluggies out there to love, hate or relate." (00:00)
• Jules Posner: "I have a hair care brand that I'm really proud. It is hyper clean, reef safe, Incredible top. Incredible." (03:29)
• Stella Berry: "Youth is wasted on the young. 'Cause you are so capable and there's so much you can do and you just will never realize it until you have wisdom." (61:39)

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Conclusion

"The Bush is Back" offers a candid and comprehensive exploration of intimate and often stigmatized topics, blending personal storytelling with insightful discussions. Stella Berry and Jules Posner's openness provides valuable perspectives on navigating the complexities of sexual health, mental well-being, and the evolving landscape of the sex industry.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to focus solely on the meaningful discussions and insights provided during the episode.

Transcript

[Esther Povitsky]

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[Annie Lederman]

So should we. Welcome back. We have like a fan favorite, a group favorite, OG really return finally to the stages of Trash Tuesday. We've got Stella Berry. I feel like Stella Berry, like her guesting on our show several years ago, like helped define the brand of Trash Tuesday.

[Stella Berry]

I didn't know that.

[Annie Lederman]

No, that's just something that I thought of right now. So it makes sense that you wouldn't know that. But I think it's real.

[Stella Berry]

That is sick.

[Annie Lederman]

Because you're like smart and. And that's all we need. Thank you. Shout out to our golden slug, Brandon. Guys, we have a Patreon. And the truth is we just recorded a long and deep episode for our patrons only and it was the four of us and it was really intense. And if you want to listen to that, that will be the bonus episode this week. Check it out. Check us [e-mail] Trash Tuesday podcast or the link below. And we have new bonus episodes every.

[Jules Posner]

It's a little extra juicy It's a little bit more of our unmasked version of ourselves, and I think it's our best work. So go check it out.

[Unknown]

This podcast is brought to you by Skims. I basically live in Skims Bralettes. From the Triangle Bralette to the Racerback, they're all equally comfortable, equally supportive, and equally buttery. Shop my favorite bras and [e-mail] and after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcasts in the survey and and be sure to select our show Trash Tuesday in the dropdown menu that follows.

[Annie Lederman]

I am on tour. I'm so excited that I will officially be going on tour this fall. Starting in September, I'm gonna be in Madison, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Philly, Boston, New York, Olympia, all these great cities. I can't wait to share all my new material with you guys. It's been so fun to work on it. Get [e-mail] and you can get tickets now before they sell out the link below. Thank you. I'm excited. I'll see you guys there.

[Jules Posner]

You guys, I have a hair care brand that I'm really proud. It is hyper clean, reef safe, Incredible top. Incredible.

[Stella Berry]

That's why I can carry it with me.

[Jules Posner]

I mean, like, you know when you create something and you're like, wow, I really nailed it. I really nailed it. The formulation, the packaging, everything about it is beautiful. Go to eboceanclub.com We've sold out of the shampoo and conditioner for now, but we are trying to bring that back asap. But we still have a ton of detanglers. There's some.

[Stella Berry]

It will come back, though.

[Jules Posner]

They are equally amazing. Go get [e-mail].

[Annie Lederman]

Wait, what do you have?

[Stella Berry]

Oh, okay. So I have. I should have brought you one.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, you're good.

[Annie Lederman]

You're good.

[Stella Berry]

Unfortunately, these all sold out, and so these ones are the. The rejects that have, like, little scratches or, like, you know, flaws, but it's fine. So I did a couple readings this year. It's my first time doing it, where I collected excerpts of my favorite philosophy on erotism and taboo and sexuality. And then I read them at your local bar or a bookstore. So, yeah, that's my volume one. I'm gonna compile volume two. Oh, my God. These are books that I've collected over the last seven years that have changed my life or changed the history of the study of sexuality. And it's really hard to find excerpts like that or find authors to read about sexual philosophy if you're not, like, in school or in a class for it, which is rare.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

So I thought that. I know a lot of people have interest in this. This is an anal scene. A gay anal scene where he shits on his partner. That's how I open the.

[Jules Posner]

That's on Earth. We're briefly gorgeous.

[Stella Berry]

It is the best anal scene I've ever read. Where it is so, so true to how I have experienced it. It is the most truthful depiction of anal. It's how the pain feels in your head. Like, how the pain goes white and all this other stuff. And then how close you are and how, like, two beings become one. And then also when you start to smell that you've shit on them and how dirty you feel and how broken you feel, but how human you feel. It's a beautiful thing.

[Jules Posner]

I feel like that is like the ultimate feeling of free. Like there is. You cannot beat. Like, once you've on someone. I feel like there we have nothing. There's no space between us anymore.

[Stella Berry]

Exactly. I love that we're starting off strong.

[Jules Posner]

You try on me.

[Annie Lederman]

You said you were gonna put your finger up my butt.

[Jules Posner]

I want to. You won't let me. You know, you're all talk.

[Annie Lederman]

That's not true. Please.

[Jules Posner]

Guess who's over my house right now. Jenna.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

And I asked her to actually put her finger up my butt. And then she goes, actually, I don't really know what I would do. She's like, if I knew how to do it, I would.

[Jules Posner]

She's been constipated, Stella.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, yeah.

[Stella Berry]

So you want to, like, pull it out?

[Annie Lederman]

Well, that's what the nurse said.

[Stella Berry]

You use your hand with a glove on.

[Jules Posner]

You have to, like, digitally, like, dis. Impact. It's like a. Like a nursing thing.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. Honestly, that's what every anal porn girl does.

[Jules Posner]

Really?

[Stella Berry]

Like, before a scene, if they want to make sure they're good, they just stick their finger up there, scoop it out. Jules, are you gonna make jokes? We all make jokes. I can't say they because I'm one of them. I have been in the past. Don't do that anymore as much, but we all make jokes. Like, you have your poop finger. Like it smells the rest of the day.

[Annie Lederman]

Is it better?

[Stella Berry]

I'm so sorry. Why do I have to start?

[Jules Posner]

Like, Jules has questions because she's a conservation pointer.

[Annie Lederman]

Is it better to use your finger or do the enema?

[Jules Posner]

The enemas don't work on Esther anymore. She's up, She's Leveled up though.

[Annie Lederman]

Enemas are just like. That's, you know, when I squeeze the water up there. Do you ever do that? Yeah, I just get little pebbles that pop out.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

And narrates this to me via text.

[Stella Berry]

You know, I had a pebble friend.

[Jules Posner]

A favorite word for you this past week.

[Annie Lederman]

It's pebbles.

[Stella Berry]

I put my finger up my best friend's butt just for fun in college. I was like, I just want to know what it's like, don't you? And he was like, yeah. And so we just sat there and my finger was up his butt and I was like, do you feel anything? He's like, not really. And I was like, not really. Which is kind of what your guys vibe feels like to me right now. Just stick your finger up there.

[Annie Lederman]

I would definitely feel it if you said I wouldn't say not really.

[Jules Posner]

Have you seen my hands? Fan and LeBron hands?

[Annie Lederman]

Look at mine and compare comparison.

[Jules Posner]

I wouldn't feel that. I would feel. I wouldn't feel that.

[Annie Lederman]

If I was one of the porn girlies. I'd have to be like, hey, Stella, can you come help me? Because my fingers aren't doing it.

[Stella Berry]

Well, you know what? The comparison I always say is like, I put a tampon in. And guys are like, wait, you can't like feel that tampon for seven hours. Like you don't notice that it's in there. And I'm like, no, I fully forget it's in there. Yeah, it's the same thing. If you put like tiny butt plug in or if you let a finger sit in there, just start to not notice it. You don't really feel anything.

[Jules Posner]

Really.

[Stella Berry]

The in and outs.

[Jules Posner]

Jules, you're.

[Stella Berry]

You're not.

[Jules Posner]

Are you anti.

[Annie Lederman]

I've only tried a. But then I don't know.

[Stella Berry]

Isn't as good. It's a smaller it is, the worse it feels. I think it's like.

[Annie Lederman]

So it has to be big to be better.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

Okay, I'm down. It's just I don't have anyone, so.

[Stella Berry]

I don't even do it that often anymore. I love it. But it's also.

[Annie Lederman]

But do you other holes are good to yourself. Like using your butthole too?

[Stella Berry]

I can, but I'm so lazy. I'm so lazy.

[Jules Posner]

It makes so much sense that your mom is a gynecologist me now it seems like it's a fast. Like there's a different brain.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, it's a fascination.

[Jules Posner]

No, it's a doctor.

[Annie Lederman]

It's like a doctor brain.

[Jules Posner]

It's like I want to Know what? It's like.

[Stella Berry]

I always just had such an open family dynamic talking about the body. And then I can be open with her about it, too, where I'm like, is this, like, medically okay to do? Or, like, how do I have anal and not get UTIs? Or.

[Jules Posner]

I just learned something new. Speaking of gynecology, this new STD that is not in any of the panels, but you have to specifically ask, which one is it? It's a mycoplasma.

[Stella Berry]

Yes.

[Jules Posner]

Genitalia.

[Stella Berry]

Thank you, God. Talking about it. Mycoplasma. And also urea plasma.

[Jules Posner]

Plasma.

[Stella Berry]

I had urea plasma. I didn't have mycoplasma. And you know what? All my friends, like, even people not in the industry have it. Like, so many people have it. It's just a overgrowth of bacteria of urea plasma. It only sometimes causes symptoms that make you feel like you have a uti.

[Jules Posner]

But mycoplasma symptoms tend to be a little bit more, like, uncomfortable.

[Stella Berry]

Yes. It can be stronger, but also, a lot of people don't know they have it. It's like, maybe a smell and maybe feels like a uti.

[Annie Lederman]

How did you know that you had it?

[Stella Berry]

Oh, I was. I thought I was getting a UTI every week, and I was just dying, and no one, like, tested for it, and no one knew anything about it. And then my mom just tested me for it one day, and she was like, oh, that's what's causing this. And it's like, two weeks of doxycycline, and it's gone.

[Jules Posner]

Same with mycoplasma as doxy and another one. But apparently the problem with ureoplasma is you can go back and forth between your partner.

[Stella Berry]

Yes.

[Jules Posner]

So he has to get tested too. He has to get treated as well.

[Stella Berry]

It's painful.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, God. Fun times in the STD world.

[Stella Berry]

Well, that's why they test for mycoplasma now for performers in porn, but they don't test for urea plasma. And so after I got that and I had to do two weeks of antibiotics, I was just, like, so traumatized by it all and the pain that it had been causing me that I stopped doing fluid exchange with anybody. So I won't kiss. I won't do anything where I could catch anything, because there's so much we don't test for. There's so much we don't even know about, let alone, like yeast infections and BV and things like that that can cause such issues.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. And it's so hard to Tell too. Because it's like, in. In theory, it's like someone brings you over, like, oh, I just got test. And for some reason, something about his chemistry or something about him is causing either chronic uti, chronic bv, or the cycle of bv, yeast bv, like, over and over again. And like, my partner in my 20s, like, my college boyfriend, for some reason, no matter what I did was constant uti.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

And, like, I had, like, a couple years of just maybe getting UTIs every two months.

[Annie Lederman]

What?

[Jules Posner]

And then I never got it again. I literally haven't had a UTI since, so. So I think that we have a very limited, like, idea or we don't talk enough about. We always, like, chlamydia, gonorrhea are the obvious ones, but never, like, the urea or the mycoplasma that, you know, could be, like, really our brains up. Because I was.

[Stella Berry]

I was on the edge when I was getting UTIs, like, every two weeks. Yeah, I was. And I get chronic UTIs. I haven't had one in eight months now since I took my plasma. It's not crazy. And then all my friends that are like, I have, like, recurring BV that I can't get rid of, and it's really my relationship, or like, I feel like I have a ut, then it never comes up positive. I'm like, get tested for urea plasma. And every single one has been positive. And then once they get fixed, they're fine. Yeah. And so get tested for urea plasma.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. I feel like so many of us.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

Well, it's hard to.

[Stella Berry]

Now it's technically an sti. You have to treat your partner for it.

[Annie Lederman]

A lot of doctor's offices don't even know what uroplasma is. Or they're like, we don't treat that. We don't test.

[Stella Berry]

They should know. If they're a gynecologist, they should know. It's just, like, not been something people have tested as much. But I will also say the urine tests don't really work. They're not accurate. Like, I go into my urgent care now randomly, and I'll just get a urethral swab for UR plasma and mycoplasma just to make sure it hasn't come back. So they have to swab in your urethra.

[Jules Posner]

Whoa, that's fun.

[Stella Berry]

But no, but it's not. They don't go that far in. But that's the only accurate way to test for it.

[Annie Lederman]

I never seen my urethra. I don't understand.

[Stella Berry]

I Honestly don't really know where mine.

[Jules Posner]

Is either, how it works, because I put up catheters, I guess, if you don't want to.

[Annie Lederman]

No, tell me.

[Jules Posner]

So your urethra is pretty much tucked in there. I would have to kind of peel away at the folds. And when I peel away at the very top there, there's this little button and it's a clear. It's a clear button that has a little hole in it. And that's where I would insert the catheter.

[Annie Lederman]

And that's where you're getting swabbed.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. And you know what's funny? In the gynecologist's office, it can feel a little uncomfortable. But in the gynecologist's office, which is my mom's office, it's not weird because she knows what to do and it's like normal and she's used to it. When I go to the urgent care and this is just a poor little urgent care nurse, you know, she doesn't do gynecology normally. She doesn't normally have to spread your legs open. Like she's looking at your ankle.

[Jules Posner]

She's like.

[Stella Berry]

She's like, all right. I don't even know if we have the swab, but I think we do. And then she finds it and she's like, okay, like, we can do this. And then I'm like, fully spread there, and she's like, let me just find your urethra. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. Which I know it's not like that. I know they enjoy their job, you know, helping people, but I feel bad making her find it. Peel back the folds and find it.

[Annie Lederman]

It's never fun when you feel like the healthcare provider is like a little nervous.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

I'm like, I know I'm not supposed to go to you for this, but you're closer to my house.

[Jules Posner]

I implore you to find your pee hole.

[Annie Lederman]

Why?

[Jules Posner]

You have to know where your sound is.

[Stella Berry]

That's the thing, sounding. You stick things up. It.

[Annie Lederman]

What?

[Jules Posner]

Really?

[Stella Berry]

It's called sounding.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. What if you look. Does that actually bring though? I'm trying to really be open minded.

[Stella Berry]

Women really do it. Maybe they do, but it's mostly a man thing.

[Jules Posner]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Stella Berry]

I know men do pencils and things in there.

[Jules Posner]

I. I have seen that.

[Stella Berry]

I don't know what it is. I couldn't tell you. Maybe it's like, you know when you have a yeast infection and you just got itch away? I feel like that's what it feels like whenever I see it, I. That's what it feels like.

[Jules Posner]

That is the most. This is so horrible. Esther, put your ear muffs on. That is the most satisfying. Like, one of the most satisfying things I've ever felt was, like, an itch away.

[Stella Berry]

Yes. Like, deep inside your body. And you can't scratch inside your body, but when you can scratch inside your.

[Jules Posner]

Body, you feel it in your eyeballs. Like someone is just, like, actually getting that. That it's. Oh, my God. Okay, you're done. You're good. Did you see the documentary Zoo about bestiality? Because there are people.

[Stella Berry]

I don't need to see that. Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

Okay.

[Annie Lederman]

Well, she's like, I live it. No, there are dudes who, like, put.

[Jules Posner]

A piece of cheese in their butt and then have, like, a little mice. Like, these are the Germans.

[Stella Berry]

Right. Why did he do it off the Germany on this?

[Jules Posner]

Right.

[Stella Berry]

Why are we making these people famous? They're like. They want to be reality.

[Jules Posner]

Well, it's called Zoo in the beginning is about a guy that died because he. A horse. That one I know of.

[Annie Lederman]

That's up, Stella.

[Jules Posner]

Because I was going back to the feeling. Good as a little mouse scratching up the butthole.

[Stella Berry]

And I thought was, oh, my God.

[Jules Posner]

I will clear. It's not a mouse that. Fuck my itch away.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, no. This is not. I don't have a personal story about this, but I have a. My mom in the 90s in LA, she was working in emergency rooms in LA as a resident, and she said there were at least six men that came in that had hamsters up there. No, it was a trend. It was a trend at the time.

[Annie Lederman]

So it's actually true.

[Jules Posner]

Wait, didn't. Isn't there a celebrity with a hamster.

[Annie Lederman]

At the butt storage?

[Stella Berry]

She always brings it up.

[Jules Posner]

It's Richard Gere.

[Annie Lederman]

Yes.

[Jules Posner]

Oh. He's my dad's doppelganger.

[Annie Lederman]

I know. And he's doing Chicago, the movie. He's Mr. Razzle Dazzle. I can't think of him like that.

[Jules Posner]

I mean, more so. Right. He's like the guy.

[Annie Lederman]

He's like, it's just a rumor.

[Jules Posner]

I hope so.

[Annie Lederman]

Usually rumors.

[Stella Berry]

I feel like it's just a rumor.

[Annie Lederman]

I just rumors.

[Stella Berry]

But my mom, she has corroborated.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, the hamster in the butt.

[Stella Berry]

People do crazy shit. That is why we need to talk more about sexuality. Taboo, the philosophies of it. Bring it to light. Maybe we can understand why we're going towards certain directions and how to not.

[Annie Lederman]

You said that you're not doing Fluid exchange anymore. So what does that leave?

[Stella Berry]

So a lot of things I do are like masturbating side by side. I can anal train people so, like, they'll put dildos in my butt. I put dildos in their butt. Like interactive, but no spit exchange.

[Jules Posner]

I like that.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

I feel like that might be the new rule in my relationship.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. Or monogamy. Monogamy is good. Monogamy is nice. But when I'm working with lots of. I mostly work with girls now. I don't actually work that much anymore filming.

[Annie Lederman]

Really?

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

What do you. Yeah, tell us about your life. What's going on?

[Jules Posner]

What's the update?

[Stella Berry]

Okay, so this is my second one. I've been doing readings, but also I brought some merch. I don't know which size of these is which, but it. Let's see. I don't even know what sizes would work for you guys, but these are. Thank you.

[Jules Posner]

Wait, can I get my gift to you back so I can gift it to you properly?

[Stella Berry]

Want to gift it to me? You want to pass it to me so I can open it?

[Annie Lederman]

So I.

[Stella Berry]

Three and a half years ago, I started building a porn platform called hidden.com. and so I randomly made like some fun little merch to just give to my friends because I'm like, okay, this is my excuse to like take the money and like make clothes with it and.

[Annie Lederman]

Did you wear these already?

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, I wore them. I got my juices all in them. Thank for you. No, they're.

[Jules Posner]

We only anal. We only flew an exchange with you.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, these are so cute.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, I made. They're so random. But yeah, I've made some little. Some little merch for it.

[Annie Lederman]

My new song.

[Stella Berry]

But yeah, I've been working for the last three and a half years on building this porn platform. And really the last year it ramped up where I'm like, I'm now like worried about getting technic. Like, I just sit at a desk all day with my team of girls just figuring, running the whole like, branding, marketing, creator support, product design, everything.

[Jules Posner]

You do it all. Stella.

[Stella Berry]

I, like, I really was. I'd never sold another product other than my. My porn and my only fans, really. And so I was like, if I'm gonna go into something, I'm gonna. I built it with my high school best friend and I'm like, I have to have full control of how this is because I know it's the first sex worker owned platform ever, so I love the name. It's gonna stand out.

[Jules Posner]

Hidden is so cute. It's cute, right?

[Stella Berry]

I came up with it from the idea of just the hidden folder because all my guy friends and girlfriends have hidd holders on their phone with like their old sex tapes and like random nudes.

[Jules Posner]

Can we today? Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

And that's really what amateur porn fans want to buy is.

[Annie Lederman]

I didn't know that was a real.

[Jules Posner]

Let's go through our hidden.

[Annie Lederman]

I don't have a hidden. You don't have a hidden. Show me where it is.

[Stella Berry]

My whole phone is my hidden. We can go on my hidden.

[Annie Lederman]

You have.

[Jules Posner]

You have a hidden.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

How do you see it?

[Stella Berry]

And really the experience of the amateur porn fan is like going on the depths of Reddit to find their neighbors hidden folder on their phone. That is the experience. They want to see, like the girl that they had a crush on in sixth grade. As an adult now you know what her hidden folder's like and what she looks like naked. Like, it really is such a personal experience when buying porn. And I, I don't think a lot of people, unless you're really in the industry and under like seeing that fan base understand that. That it's like the most amateur content.

[Annie Lederman]

Please tell me how you get to it.

[Jules Posner]

Just scroll down.

[Stella Berry]

Wait, don't you have to make it?

[Jules Posner]

You have to make it.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. It doesn't just like. It doesn't just like take your nudes and just put it.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah, like any nudes or sexy tapes you have in seven, you put it in that folder.

[Annie Lederman]

You put it in a folder that's.

[Jules Posner]

That you hide.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, it's like. And so then if you're scrolling through your phone with your family, none of your nudes are popping up because they're in the hidden folder.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, wait, I need to use that.

[Stella Berry]

I just opened mine and then I.

[Jules Posner]

Was like, I honestly, like, you know, I'm a mommy.

[Annie Lederman]

What did you see?

[Jules Posner]

She just show me.

[Annie Lederman]

You said we're looking at them. You said we're all looking in our hidden folder. But. I know, but it's.

[Jules Posner]

It's an actual sec. Sex with someone else.

[Annie Lederman]

Show me. You show me.

[Jules Posner]

You nasty, nasty.

[Annie Lederman]

One second, I'll just show you.

[Jules Posner]

I'll just show you. Oh, my God, this is so nice.

[Annie Lederman]

I've seen one of you at the.

[Stella Berry]

Someone eating your ass.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, yeah, sorry. That is as my hidden. That might be actually a tongue in the asshole.

[Annie Lederman]

How did you even get that image?

[Jules Posner]

Just look at the icon and then look away. Okay, okay. Try. Don't gasp.

[Stella Berry]

Can I see?

[Annie Lederman]

Show me.

[Jules Posner]

Okay.

[Stella Berry]

She'S looking at the image.

[Annie Lederman]

Whose tongue Is that.

[Jules Posner]

I don't know. I couldn't tell you. Like, right off the top of my head, I'm like, who is this? I'd have to, like, hit it, but then I'm not in the mood to see. Do you ever, like, think back to ex partners and you're, like, so icked out by it.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Jules Posner]

And so I'm scared to look at my hidden. Because I'm sure once upon a time I thought it was a hot video. But looking back, I'll probably be. I'll probably vomit in my mouth right now. So. Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

Thank God I don't have a hidden folder. I just lose all my old shit, make new shit.

[Jules Posner]

Really?

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. I don't know where any of my old stuff is. I'm horrible organization. I am. I really just treat this like a hidden folder. I really do just, like, make sex tapes and post them. And I don't even catalog them. I don't put them on Dropbox. I don't organize them, just lose them.

[Jules Posner]

This is how to live.

[Annie Lederman]

Jules, what's in your hidden folder? It's mostly just nudes from, like, before. Because I don't like taking nudes. So before I would just, like, do the previous ones and send it to the guys.

[Stella Berry]

You're like, these are my top.

[Jules Posner]

You have to be careful. You have to screenshot the photograph. So he doesn't date?

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

He doesn't have to scroll up to six years ago when you originally took it. Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

This is so tiring.

[Stella Berry]

It is.

[Annie Lederman]

So I should send Dave a nude from when I was like, 21. You should be notices.

[Stella Berry]

You absolutely should.

[Jules Posner]

But you're 20. You went through a period of loving your body.

[Annie Lederman]

That would not be good. When I showed him, I actually one time I showed him a picture and I go, this is my cousin. Don't we look alike? He's like, yeah, you do. I'm like, that was me when I was in my early 20s.

[Jules Posner]

I was.

[Annie Lederman]

I was bigger.

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[Jules Posner]

I have a question for the group. How do you feel if your best friend sends you a sex tape or nudes that she's sending to a guy just to proofread? Yeah, but I'm like, like, is this too much? This has happened to me before where someone has sent it without like honking the horn first and it's annoyed the out of me. It's like, I don't know if I'm in the mood to watch my friend, you know, like to look at my friend's, you know, urethra right now.

[Stella Berry]

So true.

[Jules Posner]

Like, so it's like, hey, can I show you this and explain to me what it is first so I have the option to say yes or no. Right.

[Stella Berry]

I feel like it might be a codependency because I'm like, why do you need to send this to me? Like, believe that you look hot and just send it. Like, keep that between you and. But also, I receive nudes on a daily basis from my friend, so it's totally normal and fine.

[Jules Posner]

But see what you're saying.

[Stella Berry]

But what's the point? Just send the nude. I would think, like, why do your girls have to tell you, you know, like, this is perfect. Be a freak. Be a little freak and send like your, your bush, you know?

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah. And it also kind of maybe puts you in a bad position because what are you supposed to give notes? Like, what are we?

[Stella Berry]

You're like, girl, don't not send that. Your tits look uneven.

[Annie Lederman]

Right.

[Jules Posner]

I think it's like a cheerleading thing though.

[Stella Berry]

It's like, you look so it's like empowerment. Yeah, send it. But no, you should know in your core you want to send it.

[Annie Lederman]

You should have the validation and it's.

[Stella Berry]

The Sickest thing is when no one knows that you send nudes or anything. And you do. You're a little freak on your phone to your partners and no one knows. You're like, going to the bathroom to send a video of you peeing, you know, to your boyfriend. But you don't have to tell anyone you do that. It's sicker that way.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah, that's true.

[Stella Berry]

But maybe that's like a freak mindset. I don't know.

[Jules Posner]

What? Nothing. I'm just looking at you.

[Stella Berry]

What do you think you've been a little freak.

[Jules Posner]

I am. No, I'm a huge freak and I have a big hidden fold folder. Oh, really, Stella?

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

See, now imagine if you could monetize your hidden folder, you know, which is really what a lot of amateur girlies in the industry are doing.

[Annie Lederman]

Are you still active on OnlyFans or not as much?

[Stella Berry]

I'm not at all. So I still have an only fans. Like, how it is in the industry is everyone has eight different sites to monetize. You know, like we want to make. Even if I'm making 200 somewhere, I'm not going to delete that. You know, I want you to make money on as many platforms as possible. So with hidden, for instance, I added a for you page that feels like TikTok, where you can promote yourself on there. So you don't have to promote across all these social medias, which is our biggest problem right now. We're getting censored on every platform and we have no plan B and we have no seat at the table and it's actually ruining people's lives. Like, even last week, a law went into place in the uk and while they're trying to figure out how to age verify to see porn content on Twitter, which is the main marketing platform for so many sex workers, they just blurred all their content and made it completely inaccessible until they can figure out the ID verification. So a lot of girls are just dead in the water and have no way to promote their content to make rent money next month.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

So there's a for you page that you can promote on and find new fans. And, you know, it's us working together basically to build an ecosystem of fans that we all can rely on. And then you can sell content on there as well without having to, like, manually send it in the messages. You can just have a store to sell your content on, which is another thing. It's just like, more efficient monetization.

[Jules Posner]

I love that. Congrats. You're such a workhorse.

[Stella Berry]

We already Got offers from large campsites to buy us because they're like, if once you launch live streaming on your site, you take 18%, why are people gonna, you know, pay 50 or 60% for us? And so they buy out tons of little sites so they can keep charging that. But my next plan, I wanna build this platform and just have it be a small niche corner of the Internet that sets the standard for what sex workers can expect from their sites. Like, we have the best chargeback protection so people can't buy your content and refund. Which right now on OnlyFans, if they refund, they refund every time.

[Jules Posner]

No way.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, there's just so many things we could do that are more sex worker friendly, but no one cares enough.

[Jules Posner]

You're. You are the person to sort of to really lead this charge because you have lived it.

[Stella Berry]

And the change that has happened in the last five years, I'm just like, holy. The industry is changing in every aspect so much. Not just censorship, but like even how the public views us. Because when I first started this, it was kind of like, okay, that's rebellious and cool and, you know, there's more of a conversation. And now with how agencies and AI have taken over the industry and they have 59 Instagram accounts to promote one girl, people just see us as scammers and like money hungry. Like if you have an only fans pages, you're seen basically as like a money hungry scammer, which is so not at the heart of what this industry really is, which is like something that will always exist because of human connection.

[Jules Posner]

What is the future of just the sex industry in general with AI in mind? Like, how is that going to change? How will it affect it? Is there a world where performers become obsolete?

[Stella Berry]

I mean, at this rate, even with the future of our industry, it's almost like we're going to get banned in 10 years globally if we don't start coming together and holding conversations about sex work and what makes it beneficial and like how we want to build it. Because we have no control over how sex work is right now. We don't own our platforms, we don't decide how we get to promote. We promote on the sites that have algorithms that we can figure out out how to work around and push ourselves out on. And we live basically like outlaws on the Internet with AI. There are things that I think we could do that could make it benefit us because people are more likely to buy content of AI, that is of somebody they recognize, a real girl. Right. And so right now we don't own our likeness at all. So mygirlfriend.com and all these sites can just sell videos of our with our face on them. And that is going to potentially make us obsolete. But what I really want to do with hidden in the future is set a precedent with it that we own our likeness. So you could like swipe right on your OnlyFans profile, for instance, and it goes to the AI version of your profile where fans can request videos. They can be like, I want to see you sucking my dick on a plane in a red dress. And the video sends to them and it looks like you. Yeah. Which is where we're at with AI right now. And so if a girl can harness it herself and then also with that set the tone and the precedent through the terms and contracts that they own their likeness, then we can also start prosecuting places that. That sell content of you without your consent. So there is a lot of things we can do, but we need to start instituting it. Otherwise AI will make us obviously obsolete.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

Do you shave your legs every day?

[Stella Berry]

No.

[Annie Lederman]

Really?

[Stella Berry]

I haven't shaved my thighs ever in my life. Not once.

[Annie Lederman]

So how do you have smooth?

[Stella Berry]

They're not that smooth. Do you want to feel them?

[Annie Lederman]

Shoes are so cute. Thank you.

[Stella Berry]

Thank you, guys.

[Annie Lederman]

I'm just like to show as much skin as you're showing. You must have so much body hair confidence like that it's not gonna pop out.

[Stella Berry]

I mean, I think body hair's hot anyway, though, you know, like, I love armpit hair on women. I. I love. I have a bush and I think a bush so hot. And like, when your bush comes out the top of your bikini bottom, I think it's so hot. And this is a lot about philosophy of taboo is like, things are hotter when they are in conflict. So when you look like a little Barbie, but then you have armpit hair and pubes, it actually makes it hotter because it's a contrast.

[Jules Posner]

Okay, so little Esther over here, this is why she's hot to me. Because she looks like a little baby, but she's got an adult bush.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. Most porn fans would say that about their favorite creator as well.

[Jules Posner]

See you, look at you looking all inches. Young little baby with a giant bush.

[Annie Lederman]

But it goes to my knees. It's not good. Does it get heavy?

[Stella Berry]

Do you like. Do you wake up in bed sometimes and see your pubes laying around next to you?

[Annie Lederman]

No, it's mostly just dirt that my dog dragged in. So this morning I put my hand over. I'm like, so bad. I Told Dave when we woke up, I was like, you have to vacuum the bed today. Donut.

[Jules Posner]

Ish. Just wash it.

[Stella Berry]

Esther sheets, like, every three days because of my dogs. But I. But, you know, I've thought about that. I've been like, I wish I could just vacuum the bed, but I've never actually done it, really, because I feel like the vacuum's dirty. I know.

[Jules Posner]

This is a regular thing in your home. You vacuum your bed.

[Annie Lederman]

No, it's a new thing. Just the hand back, I feel like, is less dirty.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, yes.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Annie Lederman]

It's a new policy that I want to implement because it's just. Just. It's too bad. And we can't change the sheets every day. That would be crazy.

[Jules Posner]

Once a week.

[Stella Berry]

But you could also not let your dog in the bed. It's not an option.

[Annie Lederman]

It's not.

[Jules Posner]

What is life. In that case, What's. What's the point of having a dog?

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah, that would be horrible. I mean, I can't even imagine her being like, yeah, right. Like, no, she would run away.

[Stella Berry]

Shave her, make her bald.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[Stella Berry]

N her.

[Annie Lederman]

I've actually brought that up. My husband's like, no.

[Jules Posner]

Does she go under the sheets with you down there? Is that why it's dirty?

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah, there's not. She's, like, on the bare bed.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, yeah. Mine are on the duvet.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, really?

[Stella Berry]

They're big, though.

[Jules Posner]

Are you someone that is very disciplined about changing your duvet cover to, like, reshuv it back in?

[Annie Lederman]

That's such a good question.

[Jules Posner]

Because I, for the life of me, will never get a duvet. Never do a duvet, because I don't have the patience and the discipline to shove the whole thing back and zip it or clip it or whatever.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, it's horrible. But I do it twice a week.

[Annie Lederman]

What?

[Stella Berry]

I mean. And then also the housekeeper does it as well, but I usually do it once or twice a week.

[Annie Lederman]

Why?

[Stella Berry]

Because I can't stand the bed. The dog hair on my bed. And I honestly, I feel like I've gotten to such a good. I like weirdly making the bed. I have a good science putting a duvet on, and I, like, tie the corners and then just let it fall over the whole thing.

[Jules Posner]

I've tried the hat. I try, but it just somehow doesn't work for me.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, every single time I make the bed, I'm pouring sweat by the end of it.

[Jules Posner]

Jules, what did they say about making your Bed every morning. Cuz like there was a switch in you.

[Stella Berry]

I did not make my bed every morning. I'll say that.

[Jules Posner]

Never know there was a switch that happened with her somewhere around like I think her second year of college where all of a sudden like you were making your bed every day.

[Annie Lederman]

I know that was just a face. It's. It hasn't been like that. You had, you had to do it. Cuz my room was just crazy.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, I see.

[Jules Posner]

The last time you came on trash, we talked about your relationship with your partner at that time. And I think, I think you're pretty open about the fact that he was going through or he was bipolar.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, he was super open about it. Which is the crazy part.

[Jules Posner]

Right.

[Stella Berry]

Even before I met him, he was all on the Internet, like all his poems and everything were about bipolar. So he was so open about it. But. And then I was too. And I was so tried to be so positive about it. Like this is something we can deal with.

[Jules Posner]

Well, while you were in it, in the thick of it, were you like, okay, like the flags were up.

[Stella Berry]

When I got into the relationship, I was 22 and I had no idea what bipolar actually meant or was. And I didn't know some people, you can't fix them. And I didn't know there isn't happy endings to every story if you just like put love into it. And so obviously looking back, I'm like, oh, the way the relationship started with him asking me for money when I was uncomfortable about it, or him staying at my house and I was uncomfortable about it, or him punching walls and yelling at me, me, like I didn't flag that yet because I didn't realize that wasn't fixable or that it was a problem. Which is just so crazy. And it's so weird how you develop wisdom two years down the line and you go back and you're a whole different person also too.

[Jules Posner]

Because it has a name. Right. Because you're like, you can, you can file it under he's bipolar. So all bad behavior can fall under. He's either manic or he's going through a slump. Right, Exactly. You file it on under there and you forget the fact that, oh, like I'm actually not being treated the way I should or I am, you know, miserable because everything becomes so focused around this.

[Stella Berry]

Exactly.

[Annie Lederman]

Was there sort of a breaking point, like as to what? Because you were clearly putting up with a lot.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, we were together for four years.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah. So what sort of changed?

[Stella Berry]

Or he'd have a manic episode every Six months, no matter what medication he was on, no matter what was happening. And he would leave and sleep on the streets for a couple months and, like, live his truth, you know, and say he was a woman and go through all that. And then he'd end up in a psych unit, and I would take him back and be like, okay, we're not together now, but we're just. You know, I'm helping you have a place to live, and you can work with me, and we're best friends. But of course, we're living together, and we're in love, and we are basically back together. And then there were points where I was like, okay, we're broken up. I can't get out of bed every day because I'm so depressed, and I feel so trapped in this. And I. And your problems have taken over my life. I'm a peaceful, calm person. Like, I. It's easy for me to have good days, and with him, it's impossible for him to have good days. So I just didn't have good days for four years, which is crazy. Realize, like, I can't live like this.

[Jules Posner]

Like, walking on eggshells, basically. Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

And just, like, around the corner, if he's having a bad day, I'm having a bad day.

[Jules Posner]

Right.

[Stella Berry]

And his struggles are now all my responsibility. And so there got to a point where I was like, I'm just so depressed. I have to end this. Like, when we're not together, I feel amazing. And then when I come back home, I can't get out of bed. And so I ended it. But I was like, he crashed out so bad from it, and I felt so guilty that I couldn't help him. Like, there's so much guilt when you're with somebody that you take care of, even emotionally. There's so much guilt of, like, I want him to be okay, and I love and care about him like a child almost. And so I put him up in his own apartment and supported him fully. And it was like $10,000 a month cash just to go to drugs. And I did that for over a year. And then there was just a point where he was so mentally that he was. He was so mad I wasn't sleeping with him anymore, that he was harassing my family. I also just noticed, like, I was making him so codependent, and I was enabling so much behavior, and he was doing so many drugs that are so bad for him and so bad for his mental state, and. And I couldn't say no. And so I just completely cut it Off. That was my breaking point. But it took four years, it took so much time until you just at one point, you just can't do it anymore. And I wish I had looked back all the times I'd broken up with him and, and just ended it then, but I just didn't know. Now I know that if somebody doesn't have their shit together, it's like I. I wish them the best. I wish them so much luck. But I know that it will sink my ship. I cannot fuck with it anymore. I can't let those people in my life.

[Jules Posner]

This is what I think that people maybe don't realize, like, about Kim Kardashian. Imagine like the father of your children, someone you had this very public relationship with that you love. Loved. I'd be so afraid even.

[Stella Berry]

It is terrifying.

[Jules Posner]

And it's afraid. But also like, like you said this like, feeling of like you're responsible for this person. Because you probably know them the best. You probably know their triggers. You probably know like their ups, everything about them.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

At some point, like, you gotta, you gotta take care of yourself.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. And you gotta stay safe. I think people apply, like we love to apply a lot of characteristics onto people that we love. Like, oh, they're really good person deep down, or like they're really empathetic or they're so, so great. But then if you really look at their actions, it's like, why are you feeling guilty all the time? Why are you feeling shameful all the time? They might be an amazing person when they're in a good state, but it also might be true that because of their personality disorders and all these other things that they use guilt to manipulate you and get what they want. And we don't always have to look at them with rose colored glasses. Like a lot of it is manipulation. And I was fully just being manipulated. And I own up to that, that I'm not a victim. I let it happen to myself. It happens to everybody.

[Jules Posner]

This is some. A conversation I had with a friend recently. Basically it was me saying, like, we have to stop being over understanders. Yes, we have to stop. Like, I'm 40, this girl, a friend of mine, who had just for the sixth time broken up with a guy who was showing the same behavior over and over again. He had good moments and then he turned into a raging cokehead.

[Stella Berry]

Exactly.

[Jules Posner]

And then they'd break up and then he'd get her back and then. Raging cokehead. So it's that roller coaster manipulation because the highs are so high, the lows so low. And you. It becomes a dopamine. It becomes a drug. Right.

[Stella Berry]

I was never. I never felt like a crazy person. And then I started being like, oh, my God, I think I'm going crazy.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

Like, I think, why is this so addicting? Why is it the moment that he's gone, I miss him, even though he just freaked me out and scared me. And I thought I was going to lose my life. Like, why. It makes no logical sense.

[Jules Posner]

But then I learned about the dopamine hit of the ups and down, the ups and down. And you're always cheated like a drug. You're always cheated, facing that same. Yeah, high. Right. When things are so great and you constantly go back to the beginning, and then you start to romanticize the beginning and the story of it all versus what you're seeing.

[Stella Berry]

In my head. It's crazy. It's like you get older and you realize life is actually so much more fragile than you think it is when you're young and you think, oh, I can have crazy people in my life that are so fun and, like, maybe they're abusive and it doesn't, you know, it's not gonna affect me that much. And then you get older and you realize, wait, I have one life. And, like, this will sink my ship. Like, people that are totally normal will go crazy because they're a partner or their partner will kill them also. That's another thing. It only. This sounds so pessimistic, and I hate to say this, but it only gets worse.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

Like with people, if they're displaying signs of something, just know it only gets worse.

[Jules Posner]

It's like, tip of the ice.

[Stella Berry]

Don't bank on the fact that the person's going to get better. Like, if they're good to you, then that's. Then keep it. But if they're bad to you, you don't, like, hope for the fact it might get better. Because usually those little signs that the guy's showing 10 years down the line, he murders you.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. And it's the same for people. Not even in relationships, if you're seeing red flags in someone and they're constantly. Friendship in the same friendship. And it's like, no, no, no. Like, I now, like, I'm so clear on the fact that, like, I'm gonna take you for what you are, for what you're showing me. Your words. If it's. If I don't see the reaction of accountability, apology, awareness, my three A's. Yeah, I don't want anything to do with you. I don't care if you try to romanticize the friendship we once had and to try to give me, oh, remember this? And lol Or I don't give a.

[Stella Berry]

You realize that shit's not rare. You're like, oh, it's not rare to have this connection with someone if they're like, secondly, find that with someone else. That's better. You are so capable. Like, as humans, we are so capable of doing so many amazing things for ourselves and for the world. And we're so loving and we're so empathetic and there's so much good we can, can do. And if that all gets drawn into this toxic, manipulated situation to this person that's just draining you of it, you lose all that capability that you have. Like, I was so much less capable.

[Annie Lederman]

The thing that you said that is like, just like, ding, ding, ding in my head is like, this person will sink our ship.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

And it's like, that is so real. And that is something that again, it always takes longer than you want it to, to, to realize it.

[Stella Berry]

It always does.

[Annie Lederman]

This person will sink this shit.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah, they will.

[Stella Berry]

And there's trauma. There's trauma you don't even realize you're having until years later. Like, I realized years later that I was raped by him many times. And I. In the moment, I just kind of brushed it off. And then you realize you have like, once you get into a healthy relationship and then you start to learn, like, healthy coping mechanisms or like healthy sex, you start realizing, wait a second, like, I have weird things from what I was experiencing and it takes so long to realize what about to like the.

[Annie Lederman]

Brainwash for me, for years after, I would realize, like, I had this little thing against certain people where I. And then I'll. All of a sudden I'd be like, why don't I like that person? And then I'd be like, oh my God, it's because of something that other person was, was saying.

[Jules Posner]

Oh my God, that happens. And then I fall for it.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

And even though, like, in that moment, like, this is always like the type of person that I don't trust, if they're giving me information about someone I've never met and it's negative later on, I mean, meet that, like. Right? Is that what you're talking about? And so that's a red flag.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

It's like, I haven't met this person and you're already saying all of these negative things. You haven't even given. The person's not in the room. They're not here to defend themselves. And usually I meet that person and like you said, I already have a negative feeling. And I'm like, where is that from? Why do I already dislike this person? The seed was already planted in my head.

[Stella Berry]

Exactly.

[Jules Posner]

And I did. I. In that moment, I'm not realizing that even though I'm like, oh, we can't be manipulated. Yes, you can.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

In the moment I think I'm just like hearing my friends draw and I'm like, I'm being a supportive friend listening to this. But then it's like years later I'm like, I don't like this person.

[Stella Berry]

I have had that experience too. It's really crazy. Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah. I think people need to wake up to it more because it's, it's not fair to you. It's not fair to the other people. Like, I don't know. I'm really upset about it because I feel like there's some like, friendships that didn't happen or didn't go the way they were supposed to go because I specifically pulled back because of some, some crazy was saying a thousand percent.

[Stella Berry]

I've cut off so many people because a crazy in my life was just like this, what you have to do. And I was just guilted into it in the moment. But people really do prey on you with guilt and all of that. And then, well, it's like we're.

[Annie Lederman]

Control your life to advertisement. Like commercials work. And like if some person who's like charming and whatever and is like saying a story like you're. We're. That's just how the human brain works. We listen to what we hear.

[Stella Berry]

That's another thing. Like even in this book of excerpts that I put together is another huge thing. Is like we think that reason and emotion are two separate things in the brain. And that the human brain can, can differentiate between the objective and the subjective. But the objective to us is literally made from the subjective. They're inextricable. You can't, you cannot take bias and emotional bias out of the objective or of your reason. You can't be like, this is what I should do, but this is like what my emotions want me to do. We might think we're doing that, but really everything, our whole reality, everything that we, how we navigate the world, how we see ourselves in the world, how we self assess our competency in the world is all based off of emotion. The lenses that I was viewing the world with when I was in this relationship was so different than what it is now. Like, I see myself so differently. My confidence and my competency in like what I think I'm capable of doing is so different. And really all reality is how you go around in your life is, is the lens. You know, we were talking about Lexapro earlier. It's like when I have Lexapro in my system, my lens is so different. It's not clouded by anxiety and fear anymore. Fear basically goes out the window window. And so I view the world as so much more of like an open oyster. So many little pearls for me to, to pick from.

[Jules Posner]

I'm really, I'm really thinking of Lexapro.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. Oh my God. I would just, I would, I would recommend just trying it. Unless you want your to be wet. Because mine deal is not wet.

[Jules Posner]

That's the problem. Because I've been on SSRIS in the past. I've been on everything. I've even been on like first gen, like anti psychotic.

[Stella Berry]

Damn.

[Jules Posner]

That was like, that got me like put on so much weight and I was like, this isn't for me.

[Stella Berry]

Gnarly.

[Jules Posner]

And like I could not come. Like my eyeballs would pop out of my actual. Like I would try so hard and it was like not you get there though.

[Annie Lederman]

I, I think at the beginning you maybe like have that stuff. But then your body adjusts and you get to normal again.

[Stella Berry]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But I will say it doesn't matter. You can use lube or whatever if that's what you need. Like I built my whole business and my life and what I know is good for me and my lens shifted for so long that it has impacted me forever. Knowing that I'm capable when I was on Lexapro because anxiety didn't cloud me anymore. And then I get off Lexapro and it's like, yeah, okay, my pussy's wet and I can have good sex. But I also don't answer my emails for three months, you know, and I feel like everything's caving in and I feel like I can't accomplish anything right. And then I get back on Lex. I'm like, I can go back to school at 40 if I want to and be a doctor. Like you're way more in tune with actual reality and that is so important to survival. So having a wet. But also there are other solutions. So I got off my Lex recently because I finally got on birth control pills so I don't ovulate anymore. And so that premenstrual dysphoria that I had cuz my hormones before my period is gone now. So I'm like this and so now I don't need the Lex Pro because I'm so stable from the birth control pills.

[Jules Posner]

Love that.

[Stella Berry]

And now my wet again.

[Jules Posner]

Congratulations.

[Stella Berry]

Yes. So I found a solution.

[Jules Posner]

Wow.

[Stella Berry]

It took so many years.

[Jules Posner]

But PMDD is a bit.

[Stella Berry]

I tell people this all the time. It's. And I'm sure, sure most women relate, which is so. But two and a half weeks out of the month, I'm so productive. I'm showing up to calls every at 9am I love my life. I'm motivated. And then there's two weeks where I cannot answer the phone. I can't get out of bed. I am so anxious. I'm impulsive. I'm making horrible decisions. I want my relationships in my life to end. I. I was like, my business wouldn't function if I was. I would just go ghost every two weeks.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. And you feel ugly. I feel so ugly.

[Stella Berry]

Ludal is treat yourself bad. Oh, I even notice it now. My face changes so much every month.

[Jules Posner]

Same.

[Stella Berry]

I'm beautiful. And then I'm.

[Jules Posner]

Can I tell you a perfect example? So I put this shirt on, on my luteal face and I wanted to light my whole body on fire.

[Annie Lederman]

Why?

[Jules Posner]

Because I was like, I. What did. When did I think this was my color? I'm so ugly. This doesn't go well with my skin. But guess what? I'm right around the corner from ovulating and look at the shirt I wore. I'm like, this looks amazing. That that's how like starkly different my mind works.

[Stella Berry]

And that's what I'm saying. Like we understand these lens shifts because you see the world completely different when there's different hormones in your system.

[Jules Posner]

This is what's was so interesting too, because when I was pregnant, I loved the way my mind, like operated. I was cool as a clam. I was like, just happy. I felt like I had blood supply to my brain. And I was in therapy and she was like, you know, I. I didn't get it done. But she was like, it would be interesting if you actually like, like tested your hormones now to see if you could replicate it for when you know you're not pregnant. Because it seems as though like you're just loving life.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah. And stable high hormones.

[Jules Posner]

I wish I had done it now because postpartum, when I tell you the crash out, out. That happens, it's like the pits of hell for me. Like so much so that I want to get pregnant stat, like immediately. Because I hate the feeling of my anxiety and my depression and the darkness and the Scaries at night that I'm like, bring me back to that brain, please. I don't care if my ankles are. Are thick or, you know, if I'm, like, peeing every two seconds. Just bring me back to that brain.

[Stella Berry]

Exactly.

[Annie Lederman]

Okay, I have a few questions.

[Stella Berry]

Okay.

[Jules Posner]

Not the first trimester.

[Annie Lederman]

I'll say that your experience with pregnancy hormones is. I feel the more. Most common. Like, people feel really good pregnant. The hormones. Why doesn't that happen to me?

[Jules Posner]

I feel like you're maybe just not looking at yourself close enough. Because, can I say, I enjoyed your. The way you were when you were pregnant. Not the first trimester. The first trimester is hell. It really is just awful. You feel sick, right? Like, even.

[Stella Berry]

How do you feel in pregnancy?

[Annie Lederman]

What do you mean?

[Stella Berry]

Like, is it.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, terrible.

[Stella Berry]

Like, is it just, like, puking or. It's mentally horrible as well.

[Annie Lederman]

That's. That's the thing. Like, so the first trimester is, like, super. Just unbelievably vomiting, nausea, no energy. And then usually, most commonly for most people, like, second trimester, your energy comes back and you, like, get really heavy.

[Stella Berry]

Happy.

[Annie Lederman]

I feel like I got out of the nausea in my second trimester, but I was still really, really uncomfortable and. And I was miserable.

[Jules Posner]

Can I, as your producer, say that you were funnier?

[Annie Lederman]

What?

[Stella Berry]

You pregnant?

[Jules Posner]

And not only that, but she was like. She had big dreams. You were like, I'm 38 weeks pregnant. That's okay. I'm going to go on the Tonight show. Fly with my. But you were such a, like, renegade, bro. Free spirit. Esther, you are so. I just don't think you like to give yourself any. You like to stay miserable because you like pity.

[Annie Lederman]

Oh, that's true.

[Jules Posner]

You want to be pitied, right? So, like, you don't. You don't want to be like, I am. So I'm actually feeling great.

[Annie Lederman]

I just know that I didn't have the glory that you felt, and I'm upset about it.

[Jules Posner]

Well, I'll tell you, I think one of the reasons why I did feel the glory.

[Annie Lederman]

Whitney felt it, too. I think it's common to feel this.

[Stella Berry]

Like, amazing feeling, but it's also common to be very sensitive to hormones and feel fucked the whole time.

[Jules Posner]

Right?

[Stella Berry]

So it is. You can be sensitive, and they can be too high because also, the hormones in pregnancy, yes, they're more stable and they're higher, so you can feel really good. But also they are the greatest stress your body will ever go through. And we're worried that, like, the hormones in birth control pills increase our risk of cancer, but really it's the hormones from pregnancy do it even more so. So it's not a beneficial thing for your body to go through when you're pregnant. But obviously I think biologically what it is is that like there's got to be something biologically where we feel better when we're pregnant overall because we want to keep getting pregnant. And they do say that biologically this is a process where if you're not getting pregnant, PMS exists to break up unfertile pair bonds. So if you're not fertile and you're not getting pregnant with your partner, you go through so many PMSs that it forces the. The relationship to end so you can go find somebody that will get you pregnant faster.

[Annie Lederman]

That's crazy.

[Stella Berry]

Like, that's so. It's not like your body in the moment's like, we've been together too long, let's fucking fuck shit up.

[Jules Posner]

Y.

[Stella Berry]

It's just like every month we get that's. It's just a. It's just a theory.

[Annie Lederman]

I kind of think that. Yeah, sounding real.

[Stella Berry]

I know me, it's a real thing for me.

[Jules Posner]

I have pots, so it's like postural. It's like a fucking weird autoimmune.

[Stella Berry]

I've heard about TikTok.

[Jules Posner]

A lot of girlies are finding out they either have EDS or POTS or some kind of version of that, but my blood pressure basically like tanks to the floor and my heart rate shoots up. And with pregnancy you're just kind of just. Just this, as Rosebud calls it, like a water logged pig. So your blood flow is constant and so my blood pressure never tanked.

[Stella Berry]

I think your heart like doubles in size.

[Jules Posner]

You have all of a sudden your body is so well perfused. I have color in my face and I have blood to my brain. And it turns out having consistently low blood pressure, the blood never got up here. So I was like always brain fog crazy. And then when I was pregnant, I. I was like, I'm a genius. I can do it all.

[Stella Berry]

How crazy is that? It's so weird because it's like obviously how society is now. It's like we don't have to get pregnant, we don't have kids if we don't want, whatever. But it's so weird how our bodies are so programmed to push pregnancy and how much like our body, that's what our bodies are built. And let me tell you, everything in, in society or everything in our bodies is trying to get us to get pregnant more.

[Jules Posner]

And then you romanticize you romanticize your pregnancy. So during pregnancy, you're like, oh, my God, I can't wait. Walk. My. My pussy bones broken. Everything hurts. This is like awful, awful, awful. And then you get out of it, and months pass, and it. You do have that amnesia. And then you look back at a photo and you're like, what a wonderful time.

[Stella Berry]

It's not that you didn't have the same experience as everyone. It's that when you look back, you're not romanticizing it.

[Annie Lederman]

No, but I do, because. Okay, so I had a very, very miserable pregnancy. The whole pregnancy pregnancy. I'm like, one and done. I'm never doing this again. The second the baby was born, you're like, it.

[Stella Berry]

I want another.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah, it's like, I want more. Because it's like, almost. You're just. It's an addiction. You're software, the downloaded software. It just. It's there. And I'm like, oh, yeah, because the reward is so high. And then you're like, almost. Like, if you finish a big workout, you're like, I want to do that again. It's like, oh, I suffered through nine months. And so it's twisted.

[Jules Posner]

And then it dips down to postpartum, PPA and ppd. And then you're back at. You're like, oh, that I'm one and done. I'm never. The reason I may never do it again is not because of the pregnancy. It's because of postpartum. What a dark, dark placement.

[Annie Lederman]

The second one cannot be.

[Jules Posner]

It can. Can I tell you, my friend just told me that in her second pregnancy, she's in her pajamas. She launched herself in the middle of traffic. She had. She did two under two. Her mentals were just in a really bad place. And I think that she had really bad ppd, her first one, and she just sort of like, rolled into another pregnancy immediately after. Yeah, she went out in her pajamas one day, like five months pregnant. She's like, I'm just going to launch myself into traffic.

[Stella Berry]

That could literally happen. That's the craziest part to any of us. And can I tell you, so freakies. You have no control over that lens.

[Jules Posner]

She is one of those people. You're like, oh, my God, her life. She's just got it together. That's what your brain can do about.

[Stella Berry]

How you're viewing your reality. It has nothing to do with actual reality. It's crazy. I wonder what the biological reason is for postpartum depression other than maybe there is no reason. It's just. Okay, you've had the baby. It. Hormones drop. Yeah. It's just like, well, it. You've had the baby, we don't give a. How you feel anymore.

[Annie Lederman]

Well, one thing that I felt because I felt like all this for my postpartum, like, all this, like, shame and, like, self hatred, and I really felt a biological purpose there. I of, like, that would make me care for my baby. You know, it's like if I do one little thing wrong, I'm not a good mother.

[Stella Berry]

Oh, my God.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

Hyper anxious, basically.

[Jules Posner]

It's what it is. You're hyper vigilant. That so much so that, like, one of the things, like, I would worry about ever holding my baby close to a window because I thought a stray bullet could come through at any time. Oh, my God.

[Stella Berry]

It really is just anxiety.

[Jules Posner]

It's just anxiety because when you.

[Stella Berry]

They say when you have anxiety. Like, when I. I had anxiety in college, I would just look at windows and picture myself flying out of them. Or, you know, when you're driving on the road and you just picture yourself going into cars, they say that's a symptom that you don't realize of anxiety.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

And so you have that with.

[Jules Posner]

That's what. That's ppa. You have the most obnoxious, like, so like, out of this world scenarios in your head. And my therapist says, especially if you're a creative person, you really. Those scenarios aren't just scenarios. They become whole movies in your head. Movie of how the stranger Gray Bullet has now entered your home. And you've created a whole movie of what happens after all the way to the end.

[Stella Berry]

I know.

[Jules Posner]

That's so stupid. And it's, like, driven me up a wall. And I'm like, I am so it. That's the most exhausting part of it is you're fighting your own brain. You're like, that's not rational. That's not rational. That's not rational. But it just floods you. It. Like, that's crazy.

[Annie Lederman]

Do you feel like.

[Jules Posner]

Remember Jules? And I was like, don't. Don't stand next to the heater. It might explode.

[Annie Lederman]

Yeah, you were crazy.

[Jules Posner]

Crazy. Don't stand next to any electronic. It might explode.

[Annie Lederman]

That sounds like my mom. Honestly. Do you feel like you're improving or do you feel like she's my game?

[Stella Berry]

She's like, yeah, she's impressed.

[Annie Lederman]

So much better now. Before it was crazy, anything was just like. Like, you can't do anything.

[Stella Berry]

We really are slaves to our. To our programming.

[Annie Lederman]

Yes.

[Stella Berry]

And our hormones. How crazy is that?

[Jules Posner]

Crazy. But then I see Other baby. I see other moms just like chilling, man. And I'm like, But I feel like.

[Stella Berry]

Every time you really talk to someone, some people are like, yeah, it's chill. But I feel like so much of this is. It's such an internal experience that I'm sure everybody has some form of this experience, right?

[Jules Posner]

I hope so because it is very isolating. Sometimes. Like the thoughts that run through my head, I'm like, oh. Like I'm embarrassed to say out loud because like, what if new moms don't have this?

[Annie Lederman]

No, everyone has a.

[Stella Berry]

Except those party girls. Like at 22 and they're like, I just went to the hospital one day with a pain in my stomach and I had a baby.

[Jules Posner]

But see, this is why I do think that there is an upside to having them really young is cuz you don't have the fully formed brain to really have that like fear yet. Like when you have a baby late in life and all of your entire being the pieces of yourself have lived and experienced horrible things. So you know all the things that could go bad.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

22, you're like, what's the worst thing?

[Stella Berry]

Even at. When I was younger, young, like especially when I was 17, for instance, I got pregnant in 17 and was so sick, it was like exactly the fourth week. So exactly the first day that I was pregnant and I was puking out of my taxi. Oh, whoa. And I was so. I'm so sensitive to hormones and I was so sick and I got the abortion the next day and. But even looking back, I'm like, I had PMDD all those years and I didn't even realize yet. Like it takes you so long to realize your hormonal cycles and that it took me so long. So I, I could see how all these cycles you kind of are so unaware of in all the, the chaos of being young.

[Jules Posner]

Right.

[Stella Berry]

I never realized it. I just thought that was life. Like looking back, I'm like, wait, what the. I was crazy.

[Jules Posner]

A gift.

[Stella Berry]

Youth is a gift.

[Jules Posner]

Youth.

[Stella Berry]

I truly, as I get older, I'm 28, I'm not even old. I am like every day. I'm like, youth is wasted on the young. Cuz God, really, I really have started saying that. Like my grandpa.

[Jules Posner]

I would roll my eyes when people would say that when I was young.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah, me too. I was like, what does that even mean? And I'm like, wow, youth. You are so capable and there's so much you can do and you just will never realize it. It is impossible, impossible to realize it until you have wisdom. And you've navigated the world and you realize everyone is so dumb, and you could literally do anything you want to do, but then you're not 17 anymore, and you're not. You're not energetic like that. And you can't stay up three nights in a row working on some hyper fixation because you're tired and you have to live a routine. Your body's falling apart.

[Annie Lederman]

And don't sit close to a window because you might get exactly.

[Stella Berry]

No trauma. And you. Sorry.

[Annie Lederman]

This stray bullet got me.

[Stella Berry]

It's so good.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah. But, Jules, no kids ever.

[Stella Berry]

No.

[Annie Lederman]

Still no.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

Jules, really, I hate kids. But. But you don't.

[Jules Posner]

You're our nanny. You can't hate kids.

[Annie Lederman]

I don't hate kids, but I just don't want them. Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Annie Lederman]

It's not for me.

[Stella Berry]

Like, that's awesome. Honestly, think about, like, not having that biological, like, need to have them, even though you know it's going to ruin everything. Like, that is really, really good. That is really good. Because I also was like, I don't. And still to this day, logically, I know, like, if I don't have kids, I won't. It won't be something on my dying bed that I'm like, God damn it.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

Like, I know that it. My life is so fulfilling regardless. But I still. Just. As I get older, I have this, like, note. I notice I was. I was always like, I'm gonna get pregnant in my mid-30s because that's what my mom did, and I'll be more financially stable and I'll be a better parent. And then I hit 27, and. And I'm like, oh, my God, I need to have a kid today.

[Annie Lederman]

Wait, really?

[Stella Berry]

That's this weird thing. I'm having this weird. Like, I need to have a baby. That's so weird. And I'm holding off, and I'm forcing myself not to, but it is on my mind all the time. And I never had that before.

[Jules Posner]

Like, are you in the movies?

[Stella Berry]

I love children, but I have always been like, I'm gonna be logical about when I have a child. And I know that when I have a child, my career isn't gonna be as important to me, and I'm not gonna be as important to me. And I wanna give so much of myself to my child that I wanna do it when I older. And I realize even now, it's, like, the amount of risks and sacrifices you do make for a kid, you know, like, not just for you, but also your relationship. And it's so much risk to take on, and it's so scary. And it's like, I. But I have to do it now, which is crazy.

[Jules Posner]

I was always someone who was like, I. I don't think I want kids. I don't think that I'm suited. And then something changed. And then I wanted them, but didn't want to say it out loud for fear. Like you, Esther. Her fear that it just wasn't in, like, the cards for me or whatever. But when I finally did get pregnant, even then, you're like, you know, can I do this? Can I not? But then I thought about it in a different way. I. I love adventure.

[Stella Berry]

Yeah.

[Jules Posner]

I love the possibility of things going wrong, going right. With every adventure in my life, I think of parenthood in that way. It's like, this is sort of just this, like, new thing. I don't necessarily know what's going to happen, but it's going to be pretty wild. And it's just an adventure, and it doesn't have to be perfect, but, you.

[Stella Berry]

Know, that's the romantic, beautiful way to look at it that I want to keep. So that I'm like, you know what? Whenever I have a kid, it's going to be great. All of life is just an experience and an adventure. There's no way to win it. There's no way to do it right or wrong. It's just an experience and trying to let go and let it take you. And I think I'll be a really good mom if I can keep that in my head. I'm already a good mom. Yeah, No, I know I'll be. But, I mean, I think a lot of people are good moms. And it's just. It's still, like, probably the most stressful thing ever. My mom's an amazing mom. Is. Has it been the most stressful thing of her entire life? I mean, I'm 28. My brother's 26, and we are still causing her heart attacks.

[Jules Posner]

Yeah.

[Stella Berry]

It's. It never ends. Luckily, I'm. I think I'm not causing her so much issue anymore, but my little brother definitely is. Because you also don't change. Choose what, you know, your kids go through.

[Jules Posner]

No. And you also don't choose their factory settings.

[Stella Berry]

No.

[Jules Posner]

It's like they just.

[Stella Berry]

And they might. Your son might have addiction problems and, you know, struggle in and out for the rest of his life. He might have bipolar. Like, there's. My mom has so many friends like that whose kids committed suicide or, you know, there's so many things. And you Think about that. When you're having a kid, you're like, I'm in this no matter what happens. Like, I'm in this commitment. Yeah. I'm in this for the experience of having a kid. And I've always remembered that. It's. One of my favorite authors has written about this. He's like, life is not the avoidance of suffering. Suffering is what makes life valuable. And so he chose to have a child as he was dying of cancer and his wife was like, why would you want to do this and have the child, like, not know you? And he's like, life is not the avoidance of suffering. It's the experiences. I get to experience having a child. My child will understand what death is because I died. And that's all very important in life.

[Jules Posner]

Oh, gosh.

[Stella Berry]

So even if my kid is severely troubled and I have to deal with the death of my child or whatever might happen, like I would to go into to pregnancy and motherhood knowing I'm going to be okay with that. Oh, God, I'm so scared.

[Jules Posner]

And anytime you mention like any type of.

[Stella Berry]

So beautiful though to think about if you really just love it is beautiful.

[Annie Lederman]

It can't handle this.

[Jules Posner]

I can't handle.

[Annie Lederman]

Dude, that's the thing. Like, after becoming a mom, like, I see every movie so differently. Like I was when I was rewatching Titanic. Like I had never noticed there's a woman, a frozen woman floating in the water holding her baby. I never saw that the hundreds of times I watched it and then post Motherhood that I see it. Okay, guys, we're going to play a game on Patreon. If you want to see it, check us [e-mail] Trash Tuesday podcast. I think I never know link below. And thank you so much for being here. And we'll see you at the Patreon or we'll see you next week with a brand new episode.

[Stella Berry]

Bye.