CO-HOST | Make Money by Avoiding Financial Guilt and Thinking Critically About Giving

Summary

Travis Makes Money: “Make Money by Avoiding Financial Guilt and Thinking Critically About Giving”

Host: Travis Chappell
Co-Host: Brennan Berkmeyer (Brands on Brands)
Producer: Eric
Date: July 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the complicated world of financial advice surrounding charitable giving, particularly tithing in religious contexts. Travis, Brennan, and Eric explore the thin line between encouraging generosity and using guilt or "pity marketing" to pressure people into giving — whether at church, a business seminar, or even online courses. The team reacts to viral clips of pastors discussing tithing, dissecting their messages and biases, and ultimately offer a balanced, practical take on giving, money-making, and personal finance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Pitfalls of “Pity Marketing”

(Starts 04:00, deepens 11:26 & 19:49)

• The team compares church tithing appeals to guilt-tripping marketing used in other industries, like business seminars and crowdfunding drives.
• Brennan coins the phrase:

  “Churches are the king of pity marketing.” (04:00 — C)

• They challenge the idea that “giving until it hurts” always equates to good stewardship, suggesting this can lead to financial harm and unnecessary guilt.

2. Critical Analysis of Tithing Sermons

(Starts 05:07, returns 11:26 & 13:45)

• The crew plays and dissects two viral clips of pastors teaching about tithing:
  • Pastor Clip #1: The “Bumper Plate” Illustration
    • Pastor uses gym weights to symbolize financial burdens and then suggests tithing is like a barbell that “orients” all burdens, supposedly making life easier.
    • Mixed reactions; Travis says:

      “You’re struggling with money. Give more away. Yeah, I think it is another bumper plate, I’m gonna be honest.” (08:23 — C)

  • Pastor Clip #2: The “Feed Your Family First” Perspective
    • This pastor advises listeners that, if forced to choose, feeding your family comes before tithing, directly contradicting the “give no matter what” narrative.
    • Travis appreciates the honesty:

      “I 100% thought he was going to say the other. When I watched this, and I immediately bookmarked it to be mad about. And then I was like, oh, wait, hold on. He’s cooking.” (14:13 — C)

    • The pastor advocates calling the church for help if you’re in financial distress:

      “Feed your family. Call us and we’ll feed your family. So don’t get it twisted.” (14:24 — F)

3. On Financial Guilt vs. Wise Generosity

(Starts 17:00, deepens 20:04)

• The discussion pivots to the broader topic of guilt-laden fundraising, in and out of church.
• Brennan draws parallels to NPR/public radio donation drives, questioning when appeals become manipulative:

  “When does it become too much ... less altruistic, less honest and more just ... to make you feel bad, like pity marketing, or to make you feel guilty? Or to say that your identity is defined, but participation is required by tithing — that you can’t be a member of the in-group if you do not give us some of the money that you can’t afford to give ...?” (19:49 — B)

4. The Guilt Tactics of Business Gurus

(20:04)

• Travis calls out a similar “all-in” mentality in entrepreneurial circles:

  “It’s the guys that are like, ‘If you cared about personal development, you would spend the $10,000 on this course. Put it on a credit card. ... You’re an absolute loser if you don’t give me that 10 grand.’” (20:17 — C)

• He shares his own story of sometimes taking big risks with credit — but always with context and responsibility.
• The hosts advocate for tailored advice:

  “Especially in these types of industries where the message is, ‘We’re here to make everybody better, and ... love on those who don’t have as much.’ It’s like stepping on that value when you’re suggesting that everybody, no matter their situation, should be doing this thing, because that’s just what’s mandated here. Rather than allowing for a little bit of compassion.” (21:18 — B)

5. Transparency in Fundraising & Giving

(21:39)

• Eric notes the difference between transparent fundraising (like schools with clear goals) and never-ending fundraising where the need is never defined.
• He jokes:

  “At a bare minimum, give us a big thermometer and start coloring in red at the very least. But even then it’s like, what’s the thermometer? What are we filling?” (22:02 — C)

6. A Call for Balanced, Non-Coercive Giving

(17:51 & 22:16)

• Brennan summarizes:

  “There’s always a balanced approach. ... If you want to give your money to church, give your money to church. ... But ... there is this dogmatic, like, ‘You’re gonna rob yourself of God’s blessing [if you don’t tithe].’ Meanwhile, he’s taking a six figure salary and saying that he can’t afford to pay you more than 500 bucks a month.” (17:51 — B)

• They suggest listeners approach generosity from a place of strength and self-honesty, not compulsion or false scarcity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Churches are the king of pity marketing.” (04:00 — C, echoing B & D)
• “You’re struggling with money. Give more away. Yeah, I think it is another bumper plate, I’m gonna be honest.” (08:23 — C)
• “Feed your family. Call us and we’ll feed your family. So don’t get it twisted.” (14:24 — F, quoting Pastor Jabin)
• “It's the guys that are like, ‘If you cared about personal development, you would spend the $10,000 on this course. Put it on a credit card.’” (20:17 — C)
• “There’s always a balanced approach. ... Typically the people who are preaching one end or the other of the polarity are usually the ones who are incorrect.” (17:51 — B)
• “At a bare minimum, give us a big thermometer and start coloring in red ... But even then it’s like, what’s the thermometer? What are we filling?” (22:02 — C)
• “Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of problems money in the bank. So let’s start there.” (22:57 — B)

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Important Timestamps

• 04:00 – Introduction of “pity marketing” in churches and the tithing debate begins.
• 05:07 – Play/analysis of viral “bumper plate” pastor illustration.
• 13:46 – Play and reaction to “feed your family first” pastor clip.
• 17:51 – Brennan’s summary on balanced giving and the dangers of dogma.
• 19:49 – Brennan/Travis discuss guilt appeals in business, personal development, and religion.
• 22:02 – Transparency in appeals for money and avoiding vague requests.
• 22:57 – Episode wrap-up and core money lesson.

---

Tone & Style

The episode is informal, witty, and at times irreverent, with banter and honest critique. While it pokes fun at some of the sometimes-absurd aspects of tithing and guilt-based marketing, the hosts ultimately advocate for thoughtful, compassionate financial decisions. They encourage critical thinking, transparency, and respecting both personal convictions and practical realities.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of Travis Makes Money will make you reconsider the way you’re asked to give — whether at church, a seminar, or to your favorite course creator. With humor and sharp insights, Travis, Brennan, and Eric dissect coercive marketing tactics, highlight how easy it is to slip into guilt-based giving, and offer empowering advice: Give from a place of strength and clarity, not obligation. They encourage listeners to be generous, but only within the bounds of their real-life circumstances and common sense — and to never let anyone guilt them out of a secure financial future.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio and our guest co host for a couple of episodes, Brennan Berkmeyer from Brands on Brands, is also here. What's up, guys? Thanks for the echo.

[C]

Podcaster's gone wild.

[B]

Could have come up with something original instead of just copied what he did.

[C]

Spring break.

[A]

I'm surprised you didn't say catchphrase.

[C]

Monkey scene. Hey, monkey see monkey do you know?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I once had no intro, so that joke was bananas.

[D]

I once had no intro to a stage, so I just started beatboxing awkwardly.

[B]

I was like, when you were going on stage, I watched that video.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was. Oh, that was when you watched.

[D]

Yeah, I was Just like, who cares?

[C]

He just does it every time.

[D]

Welcome to the stage.

[B]

Stage.

[E]

Stage.

[D]

How do you go over crickets? But I had fun.

[B]

Douchebag audience.

[C]

Yeah, that sounds like every day of my life. Crickets. But I'm having fun. Well, I could see the appeal of that joke with the banana in his hand. Anyway, thank you for that. I wanted to. You know what I want to do? Travis?

[B]

No.

[C]

Just to shake things up for me.

[B]

No.

[C]

I want to watch two clips of pastors.

[D]

Can we do that?

[C]

I don't get to react to preacher content very often. Are you a man of the cloth?

[D]

How about presenters? Like past versus present pastors and presenters? No, that's terrible.

[C]

Don't give it. Don't give him that. Don't give him.

[B]

I think we have one for that.

[C]

That's not good. Yeah, I love that.

[B]

There we go.

[C]

Anyway, do you. A man of the cloth.

[D]

Does this help people make money? I don't understand.

[C]

Yes, it does, because I'm.

[B]

Well, in a roundabout way.

[C]

You know how in an earlier episode you said it's too much small talk and we don't get into the topic. I'm trying to quickly get us into the topic, and you're asking questions about money. It would help with money.

[D]

I'm not a man of the cloth.

[C]

Okay, okay, okay.

[B]

So that was it.

[C]

Okay. So anyway, so there's. Joanna, just cut that. Just go ahead and snip.

[E]

Snap, snap.

[C]

Take a razor blade to that little clip there. All right. So I found two pastors talking about tithing. You know what tithing is?

[D]

Tithe with bleach.

[C]

No. Do you know what tithing is really?

[D]

With tithe pens.

[C]

So churches. Are you being funny or do I have to explain it? Because I'm going to get mad. I'm getting mad now.

[D]

Yes. That's when they pity market and ask you to give money to their.

[C]

Yeah, There you go. 10% of your income to the church.

[B]

That's the expected amount.

[C]

That is pity. Churches are the king of pity marketing.

[D]

Originators.

[B]

Originators.

[C]

Bam.

[B]

For thousands of years.

[C]

So I found two clips here about tithing, and I wanted to watch one of them. Makes no sense to me at all. And I wanted to get your financial.

[D]

It makes money.

[C]

Well, actually, let's. Let me watch one. Yeah, let's start here. This. This. Literally, I watched it three times and I. It does not make sense to me.

[B]

Okay.

[F]

Literally.

[C]

Literally doesn't at all. Okay.

[E]

This is called a bumper plate.

[C]

First of all, I love sermon illustrations where it's just. Look, I'm Buff.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Hey, guys, this is called a bumper plate. I used them at the gym.

[B]

Or did you see that one with the pastor that was trying to, like, make a free throw or a layup or something, and he missed four in a row.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, that was a good one.

[C]

You know, we should just watch a bunch of videos.

[B]

I'm cool.

[C]

Now, the worst. I gotta show you this later. There was a. There was a pastor and he had a cake, and he smashed it on the stage like this. But there was a skewer that holds the cake together, and he didn't know, and so he literally penetrated his. His hand. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Classic.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I was going to make a joke, but I won't. Here we go. This is a bumper plate.

[E]

This is called a bumper plate. It weighs 45 pounds. And for the sake of our illustration, I want you to let it represent your house payments. I'm going to take this 45 pound bumper plate right here, and this will be our car payment. And gas. We got to eat, right? We gotta pay for groceries. So third, 45 pound plate. And then last but not least, let's. Let's take 45 pounds here to represent student loans. Okay, Student loans. Let's. Yeah, Lift it.

[B]

Well, it's a bumper plate.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Not having somebody should be working out more.

[E]

It's not gonna work. But that's the idea. Because to a lot of us, our discontentment feels like that. And so naturally, the obvious solution is I gotta make more money.

[C]

Or in this case, your face right now is my face watching the clip. And I swear, I want you to really, because you. You are a former man of the cloth and you are also financially.

[B]

Oh, I love a good illustration.

[C]

So I'm still trying to just. Just to hang in there.

[D]

This is hard to get bigger muscles. He's such a handsome man.

[E]

And I can actually do that for us, metaphorically, today. A B. Come on up, my friends. Everybody give it up for a B. A B is a powerlifting coach. He's very strong.

[B]

A C was a powerlift.

[E]

This up for me. Would you

[D]

put your.

[E]

Put your back into it, bro.

[D]

Come on.

[E]

All right, stop. Thank you. Because what I want you to see is that a lot of times people like us coming to a church like this with a financial situation looking like a bee trying to lift this weight, and then someone says the solution is to tithe and give away your money for Jesus. What you interpret as a fifth bumper plate. This is where we're missing each other, though, okay? Because when the Bible talks about giving, when Jesus says, give to the poor and fund the local church, he doesn't want you to think of it like a bumper plate. He wants you to think of it like a barbell. A Barbell also weighs 45 pounds, but it obviously serves a different function than just adding more weight. The barbell's primary purpose is actually even

[C]

a bee in the background's like, what the hell are you talking about, bro?

[E]

To orient the other weights better and put you into a proper position to lift the weight. A B. Now lift it.

[C]

This made a beast day, by the way.

[E]

Freaking right. When you tithe, this is the image that I want you to hold in front of you. Because when you tithe, your mortgage payment reminds you your house is a ministry outpost for your neighborhood. When you tithe, your car becomes a tool to be grateful for, not a rusty piece of junk. When you tithe, it's a reminder that the food in your pantry is a sign of how God shows up for you.

[C]

When you.

[E]

When you tithe, you're reminding yourself that this life is not all there is, and there's a home in heaven waiting for you with the good you're storing up for yourself there. And when you tithe, you may not be punching your ticket to heaven, but you are funding the greatest mission on earth by making it more possible for somebody else to.

[G]

Hmm.

[E]

Now, this is called a. I mean,

[B]

it came together a little bit at the end.

[C]

It made a little bit more sense. Did it, though? Did it?

[B]

I definitely had no idea where he's going at the beginning, but it makes a little bit more sense. It's just that it's a.

[C]

You're struggling with money. Give more away. Yeah, I think it is another bumper plate, I'm gonna be honest. Yeah, well, there's been a couple clips, and I'm gonna show you another one that. Where the pastor talks about. Ryan Panetta's pastor talks about. Sean Cannell's pastor talked about. But. But I was watching. I was like, this feels. I like.

[A]

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[G]

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[C]

The pity marketing. I really like that you connected those two for me. But. But I was just like, I was confused. How so? You have to give more money to remind yourself that all these things that cost money are beneficial to you actually are easy.

[B]

Yeah, I don't.

[C]

But there's been a lot. The reason I mentioned this falls apart a little bit. But, you know, it's like the clip that I shared the other day of your former pastor where he's like, before you put money away in your savings account, before you put yourself in this position, give your 10% first. And it's like, I don't know if this is always the best financial advice.

[B]

I mean, that's not what they're there for, though.

[C]

Well, they say they are.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

You're going to be a good steward. Anyway, here's another clip. Well, what do you think about it? You're being very quiet, and I feel like you're feeling like a conviction that you're feeling like a drawing to give your 10%.

[D]

I just think we should all call tithing. Everything should be called a tithe. You know, I want to join the country club in my neighborhood.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And I.

[B]

People should be using this messaging more tithe owners.

[C]

But you can only tithe 10 times then.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is that good math?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. You can only tithe 10 times. Big 10 things you want to spend money on for the rest of your life.

[D]

Tithe to my patreon each month.

[C]

Yeah, that's. Dude, I'm just. Can I steal that? I need to call mine tithing.

[B]

You actually. Actually, you should.

[C]

I always say I'm going to take up an offering when I mention my patreon.

[D]

Just remember that your house and your car are outposts and vehicles for my message. You're listening to the show, dude.

[C]

You should be a pastor.

[B]

It's also a message that you care about now.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. No, I was.

[B]

This is for all of us, really.

[C]

So there's been a couple clips and like, most tithing clips I see are that. But I saw this other clip from Pastor Jabin. He's a Vegas local City Light Church. I think Sean Cannell goes there. Ryan Pineda said that this pastor has recruited half of his workforce. While we're sitting here right now. They just claimed this home they're buying. Ryan Pineda just bought this house. That's a Vegas local joke. You're going to like that later. But here's what he said, and I thought this was more refreshing. How about this. How about this?

[F]

You're thinking to yourself, jb, I already

[C]

like this guy more. Can I say this? I don't like fit pastors. I like a pastor to look like

[B]

this, like a little dabbler.

[D]

I like when people say, can I say this? But they don't let anyone answer.

[C]

Yeah, because I knew you'd say no. I'm just asserting my dominance.

[D]

And don't ask.

[C]

I don't care about your answer. I'm going to say this. All right, well, I hope so. I'm going to push play. Can I do that?

[B]

Well, you just did it again.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm going to do it either way.

[A]

Okay.

[F]

If you're thinking to yourself, javan, I cannot tithe right now. I cannot give right now because it's between giving or my electric bill.

[C]

He says, I don't give a flying fudge, by golly. Put it in a plate.

[F]

If you're thinking to yourself, javan, I cannot tithe right now. I cannot give right now because it's between giving or my electric bill. It's between giving or feeding my family. Listen to me. Look, look, look, look. Feed your family.

[C]

I'm going to be honest, though. I 100% thought he was going to say the other. When I watched this, and I immediately bookmarked it to be mad about. And then I was like, oh, wait, hold on. He's cooking.

[B]

Give him a feed.

[F]

Family. Call us and we'll feed your family. So don't get it twisted. Don't get it twisted. I just saw a preacher on TikTok go viral because he said. He said, even if you can't afford to tithe, put it on credit and God will bless you.

[C]

That's what you always say to Joe. You told me to do that.

[F]

Give me that camera right here.

[C]

Hey, bro, I love that, too. Pastors do that now, and I always want to. Give me that camera. There's a guy in Atlanta that does that, always preaches, and he'll start going like, you know, where they do the deep breath and you gotta do this.

[F]

Give me that camera right there.

[C]

Give me that camera. I'm gonna start doing that mid. I think that's nice for a finance podcast.

[D]

It could be nice. Can you make money?

[F]

Try it.

[C]

You practice.

[D]

We'll see. I think generally commenting on pastor stuff is, like, outside of my realm of. Because it feels like no matter what I say, I'm going to be hating on people's beliefs that aren't mine, and that's. It just feels hard to comment without being Insulting, I see to someone's beliefs.

[C]

Oh, you can, you can step out

[D]

but you know, but cool. Like I already feel bad about making fun of tithing but like I don't,

[E]

you know what I mean?

[C]

It's cool, you know, it's cool. But that's the thing we were talking about this the other day is like I think you can be fair.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know like, like I think that like what he just mentioned where it's like, you know, you can't because we've. I've shared clips recently where it's like

[A]

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[C]

you can't afford to feed your family tithe. Give your money to the church. That's exactly what versus this where it's like if you can't feed your family, I'll feed your family.

[D]

Right?

[C]

That's why other people should be tithing.

[A]

Right?

[C]

I love the idea of people all giving to a shared mission but it's like I don't love the idea of like everybody giving indiscriminately to whatever you want to do. You know?

[F]

Hell is like so hot.

[C]

I'm gonna steal that too.

[D]

Hey bro.

[F]

And you shake.

[C]

Hell is so like, like next time you're mean to me Hell is so hot. Yeah cune nelly like when you, when you don't laugh at my joke. Hell is so Hot down the church

[F]

for money is not worth your soul. Repent in Jesus name and become a Christian and get out of ministry. Go sell cars.

[C]

Andy Elliot's like, I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to sell cars. Now I'm basically going to. So anyway, so I thought that was, that was refreshing to me.

[B]

It is a refreshing take. And that's what we kind of always talk about here, is that there's always a balanced approach. And typically the people who are preaching one end or the other of the polarity are usually the ones who are incorrect. Yeah, but yeah, that we've talked about before. It's like, if you want to give your money to church, give your money to church. I'm not here to say you shouldn't do that or you don't. You have this shared common mission and you have this vision for how life should be lived. And you, and you believe in it to your core. Fantastic. Give as much as you want to give. But like what he's saying, there is this. And that's what we grew up with was this dogmatic, like, you know, well, that's like when you asked for a raise from one of the first people that employed you in ministry and his response was like, well, you're gonna rob yourself of God's blessing by getting a raise. Meanwhile, he's taking a six figure salary and saying that he can't afford to pay you more than 500 bucks a month.

[D]

You know, so what's interesting. So things based on that are reliant on donations, right? I can think of like NPR radio. Yeah, right. And they, they always have those campaigns at a certain time of the year where they have to make their goal. And you, you start hearing a lot of the messaging, hey, we're, you know, such and such towards our goal. You know, this, this funding is how this church or not church, how this radio station stays alive and how we keep making quality content. Cool, cool, cool. I think there's ways to do these things that are honest with the audience or the group that say, like, hey, we are. This is how we pay for the things. But like, when does it become too much? Like when does, when does the, what you're saying, the context of it become less altruistic, less honest and more just. Like, I am going to say what I have to to make you feel bad, like pity marketing or to make you feel guilty or to say that your identity is defined, but participation is

[B]

required by tithing that you can't be a member of the in group I think if you do not give us some of the money that you can't afford to give us while I'm like, driving the nice car and living in a really nice house because I'm pastoring this church of 3,000 people and whatever.

[C]

Well, it's like the business gurus that if you take it outside the church, which I think there's a very thin line sometimes between the two. But it's like, it's the guys that are like, if you cared about personal development, you would spend the $10,000 on this course.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And it's like, put it on a credit card. You don't have 10,000. And it's like, that's not the best move for everybody, you know, like, you're just making them feel like you're an absolute loser if you don't give me that 10 grand, you know, even when

[B]

I share that, I caveat it, because I've multiple times put new business ventures or startup ideas on credit cards. And when. Even when I tell that story, I'm always like, now, I would not recommend this to everybody. To be clear. I'm not telling everybody here to go take out a bunch of credit cards or to leverage your home and get a second mortgage and get a HELOC so that you can afford this program. But I'm saying, don't ever smoke kids. I'm saying that's what worked for me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you are similar to me, this might be something that you should consider. But also look at all the other things that you have. You have other responsibilities. Take that into account as well. It's like, it's just a matter like, especially in these types of industries where the message is we're here to make everybody better, and we're here to help the community and serve people and love on those who don't have as much. It's like stepping on that value when you're suggesting that everybody, no matter their situation, should be doing this thing, because that's just what's mandated here. Rather than allowing for a little bit of compassion. Imagine that, like a pastor actually practicing what he preaches. You know what I mean?

[D]

Yeah. There's something about working towards a goal, too. Like, the schools have fundraisers all the time. Like our schools. At least I know that they have a budget. They're like, we use. This is the budget we've come up with that we think makes sense, whether I agree with it or not. And here's. Then they're talking about the donations are working towards this. In this situation. You never know what's enough, what they're working towards. It's just keep going.

[C]

Well, that's why I told them I was like, at a bare minimum, give us a big thermometer and start coloring in red at the very least. But even then it's like, what's the thermometer? What are we filling or.

[D]

A chalice.

[C]

Yeah, a chalice would be nice. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that would be nice.

[C]

Many different ways you could do it. But anyway, I thought it was a nice contrast of the two because I thought the first one, I was kind

[B]

of like, it was a stretch.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, it was a big stretch.

[C]

And also, you just know Abi was like at the Cracker Barrel after, and people are like, I saw you lift that upstairs. That was really good. Yeah, that really brought home the message. I know I would pull something. I mean, obviously in any context, I would pull something doing what he just did. But I'm saying, I know if I was even like a professional powerlifter, if I was on stage, that would be the time that I'd be like, oh, I just rolled my bag and he's got six more points.

[B]

Forgot to warm up, you know.

[C]

You know, he was probably like, I think he said it was three points.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, speaking of having too many points, being long winded, why don't you close out this particular episode?

[B]

Yeah, well, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of problems. Money in the bank. So let's start there. Here in the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time.

[D]

Peace.

[C]

Side. In my third.