CO-HOST | Make Money by Building Lean Businesses Instead of Chasing Unicorns

Summary

Travis Makes Money Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: CO-HOST | Make Money by Building Lean Businesses Instead of Chasing Unicorns
Air Date: July 19, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest/Co-Host: Eric (Producer)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell and his producer Eric discuss the importance of building “lean businesses” as opposed to chasing unicorn-style billion-dollar startups. Using recent movie industry examples—especially the success of modest-budget horror films—they draw parallels to business and startup culture. The conversation is lively, humorous, and aims to inspire listeners to value profitability, scrappiness, and flexibility over monumental funding rounds or moonshot bets.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lean Business Models in the Film Industry

[05:58 - 11:00]

• Eric shares his observations from recent horror movie releases, particularly how films like Evil Dead have achieved profitability through controlled budgets.
• “The movie had a $20 million budget. It’s made $27 million so far. ... By the time its run is done, it should be around the $72 million range.” (Eric, 05:58)
• They discuss how Fangoria magazine highlighted that the Evil Dead franchise has never had a financial bomb, thanks to its consistent, disciplined budgeting and fan engagement.

2. Big Budgets, Big Risks: The Trouble with Chasing Unicorns

[10:23 - 13:31]

• Travis and Eric compare the horror movie business model to both Hollywood and Silicon Valley “moonshots.”
• Travis critiques the startup world’s obsession with raising large amounts of capital as a sign of success.
• “People want that big shoot for the moon... We’ve seen movies where they spend a billion dollars ... to put a movie together and it fails. ... You’re setting yourself up to fail if you’re overinvesting.” (Eric, 11:07)
• Eric reflects on how YouTube creators and indie filmmakers forced to work within constraints often produce better, more creative work due to necessity.

3. Bootstrapping vs. Venture Capital

[13:31 - 17:36]

• The culture of raising massive capital rounds is critiqued, with Travis advocating for bootstrapping where possible.
• Memorable quote: “If you’re not embarrassed by the first version of your product, then you’ve launched too late.” (Travis quoting Reid Hoffman, 13:24)
• The hosts discuss the dangers of losing control after taking investor capital:
  • “You’re giving up a lot of the reins, you’re giving up control to some of these other companies who make sure to protect themselves... It’s built for their protection. It’s not built for your protection as the founder.” (Travis, 16:34)
• Key insight: Constraints foster ingenuity and force founders to focus on product-market fit.

4. Cautionary Tales: Not Every Business Needs To “Go Big”

[20:02 - 23:44]

• Travis and Eric discuss examples like the failed video platform Quibi:
  • “They raised $1.75 billion. ... They lit $1.4 billion on fire in like three years and then bounced.” (Eric, 22:12)
  • Quibi’s collapse is used as the ultimate warning against overfunding and ignoring core user needs.
• The duo emphasize that most businesses don’t actually require vast injections of capital.
• “You’re probably robbing yourself from the ingenuity that’s required, the nimble flexibility... to be able to go find that product market fit.” (Travis, 20:03)

5. Financial Sustainability & Emerging Trends

[23:44 - 24:13]

• Both hosts agree the film industry, tech startups, and small businesses are shifting toward reward for scrappiness and smart resource allocation.
• Eric predicts a rise in “meritocracy filmmaking” and businesses that succeed via solid fundamentals, not hype.

6. Building Profitable, Reliable Businesses—Not Chasing the Next “Unicorn”

[24:13 - End]

• Eric and Travis reference modern entrepreneurs (like Cody Sanchez) who invest in “boring” but reliable businesses, pointing out that longevity and steady profits trump wild bets.
• “The reason they’re called unicorns is because they’re that rare.” (Travis, 24:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On chasing perfection:
  “If you launch your product and it’s perfect, it’s too late.”
  (Travis quoting Reid Hoffman, 13:24)

• On the dangers of outside capital:
  “When you’re accepting investor capital ... you’re also bringing a bunch of other cooks into the kitchen, people who aren’t in the business on a daily basis, who ... are just looking at the return.”
  (Travis, 15:17)

• On Quibi’s failure:
  “They raised $1.75 billion ... and then they had $350 million left in cash to return to investors when they sold. ... So they lit $1.4 billion on fire in like three years and then bounced.”
  (Eric, 22:12)

• On business sustainability:
  “Unlike most studio movies, the Evil Dead films are produced on modest budgets and positioned to succeed. So even when a film like this underperforms, it can still find a path to profitability.”
  (Eric, 23:15)

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Additional Highlights

• Lively conversation about film references, from Buster Keaton to contemporary blockbusters [03:27 - 06:44].
• Humor and pop culture throughout, including tongue-in-cheek jabs at tech trends and movie tropes.
• Multiple allusions to side hustles and small business models in line with the podcast’s mission.

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Key Timestamps

• 05:58 — Profitable horror movies and budget discipline
• 11:07 — Risks of big budgets and overfunding
• 13:24 — “If you’re not embarrassed by the first version...” (Reid Hoffman quote)
• 15:17 — The challenge of losing control after taking investor money
• 20:03 — The ingenuity stifled by over-investment
• 22:12 — Quibi’s massive funding and quick collapse
• 23:15 — Evil Dead as a lesson in business sustainability
• 24:29 — “That’s the reason they’re called unicorns...”

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Closing Note

Travis wraps up with his signature reminder:
“Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let’s start there, here on the Travis Makes Money podcast.” (Travis, 24:38)

Listen for inspiration and actionable insight on building lean, profitable businesses—no unicorn dreams required.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio. What's up, Eric?

[C]

Hey, how you doing?

[B]

Pretty good, pretty good.

[C]

I'm quite perplexed by what my computer's doing right now, but that's okay.

[A]

That's fun.

[B]

I'm gonna try to replace mine soon.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Although I was thinking about it, I was like, it is, I think coming

[B]

up on a decade.

[C]

That's the thing is like, I always am like, screw this computer. And I'm like, oh, it's lasted daily use, like, 18 hours a day, every day.

[B]

We've had an abusive relationship.

[C]

Never turned off. Yeah, I did. I did think about that, though, because I, I. I'm, like, halfway through my book, and I keep going, nice. Is this backed up? Is this backed up? Because I watched some movie with Laura Dern or some rom.

[B]

You're doing a Google Docs, though, right?

[C]

No, I'm writing in this app called Scribner, which, like, helps you lay it out like a book. But then they.

[B]

But I'm saying it's cloud based.

[C]

Yeah, it does, but it's not. I. I'm gonna. I might switch it to something like stocks because, like, I have to manually save it. Yeah, it's just because I get so freaked out.

[B]

You want, like, three redundancies on something?

[C]

I would literally just be like, thanks, guys. Here's your money back. I don't know if we're gonna do this. It would ruin my life.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be insane.

[C]

I watch. It's funny now because I watched this Laura Dern romantic drama, and she's a writer, and she's traveling to this writer's retreat, and someone steals her laptop. And the impact that had on me, I was like, yeah. She's like, my book is in there. I was like, no, Laura Dern. I hope you figure it out. Anyway, I don't remember. I was crying so hard, I could barely. No, I don't remember because the movie itself didn't captivate me much, but that scene gutted me like a fish.

[B]

We watched Minions and Monsters last time.

[C]

Oh, my God, I love that movie.

[B]

I was getting some real Babylon vibes.

[C]

Yeah, the elephants. No, I. I was obsessed. We were watching it, and I was like, oh, Buster Keaton. Oh, Harold Lloyd. You see Charlie Chaplin in there?

[B]

Nope.

[C]

Crazy. I was just like, this feels good to be smart. I'm the smartest person in this theater because I get all these references. Everybody is worse than me. I'm the best. No, because we were watching, and then my daughter kept looking over at me like, that's.

[B]

It's funny that she knew.

[C]

Yeah, she recognized. Well, because she's watched a good chunk of Buster Keaton movies. And then that's when you have to

[B]

get them into it, when they don't know that better cinema exists.

[C]

Well, it doesn't exist. Buster Keaton's the goat. But the thing is. So I was watching a Buster Keaton movie the other day. Or no, Harold Lloyd. It was from 1916. And I was like, it's pretty crazy. That like, 110 years later, not only am I watching this, but a few days ago, I just watched a massive kids movie that just came out, and they're still going back and referencing these movies. And I think that's such a cool thing. I think that's really powerful to have an impact that long, you know, neat. Anyway, so, yeah, I love that movie. I just saw another movie, though, in theaters, and I figured you didn't want to go. Evil Dead Burned.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I figured you'd watch that immediately.

[C]

Yeah, I've seen it twice. It came out last Thursday. I saw it Thursday. And then Friday.

[B]

Does your wife go see what is with you?

[C]

No, she doesn't like horror films. She likes Evil Dead, but she doesn't really like going to movies that much. Like, she. Like, we went to go see Toy Story and Minions. Yeah. And then she was like, that was fun. But she's not like. She's not like, oh, I need the theater experience. Like, for me, I pick, like, I picked Evil Dead the second time I went. I, like, picked a screening where it looked like there was already a lot of people because I want to hear people react to the movie. And yeah, it was great. Yeah. So I saw it twice. And the second time I knew where all the moments were. So I'm like, listen, what are people going to think about this? But there's a great moment in the beginning where it's like a twerk jump scare, because it's like a smash cut from this Deadite. One of the demons gets hit by a car and then immediately smash cuts to someone twerking in a club. I was like, this is one of the most iconic moments in cinema history that there's a booty jump scare. But I want to talk about Evil Dead.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Just in general. I think you should check it out. So it's had a softer opening in theaters than some of the prior films, but it's still incredibly profitable because the movie had a $20 million budget. It's made $27 million so far. So it's made its money back. It's made an extra 7 mil, and then by the time it's been out a week.

[D]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. And the time of its. By the time its run is done. Sorry, rhyme that Dr. Seuss style. The time its run is done, it should be around the $72 million range. And so Fangoria put an article out talking about how the series has never had a bomb financially. This is, again, a softer opening. It didn't triple its money or something.

[B]

What movie Is this in the series?

[C]

This is the sixth movie.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah, but are they sequential?

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay, so you could watch this one without having watched anything.

[C]

Here's the 10,000 foot view. The first Evil Dead they made and then they left it open for a sequel. The second movie they made. The filmmakers didn't own the rights to the footage from the first movie, so they couldn't do it previously. So they actually just reshot a truncated version of the first movie for the first 20 minutes and then it cuts to where that movie would take off. So you could edit the two movies together. Cut out 20 minutes and there's the movie. You're already yawning. I know. This is good stuff. And then the third one was they did with Universal and he time travels back to medieval times and then. Thank you. And then they didn't have the rights to use the stuff that was in the Universal movie, so they rebooted the franchise in 2013, which is the first movie I ever saw in theaters. And then that movie did really well. But a lot of people at the time didn't like that it was different than the other movies. And so they wanted to different direction. Did another movie like two years ago that blew up really well, but was totally standalone. And then this one ties into that one. So the, the timeline is crazy.

[B]

Horror as a genre, like, because I feel like there's so many of those that exist where there's like eight movies in this world, but they don't really link together. They're sort of a common through line.

[C]

The thing is, is like the filmmaker like this movie, they try to link it to other stuff. So like it's all in that universe, but it's all different flavors within that world. But yeah, I feel like horror one because they are cheap to make and they are profitable, you can experiment a lot. And what I like about the series and what they just did is that they're hiring now these new directors that have done one other movie and giving them a moderate size budget and saying, do your thing with these parameters. You have to have the Book of the Dead, you have to have Deadites, you have to have this much gore, you have to have all these things, but other than that, like other than those ground rules.

[B]

My dog is the third character in this.

[A]

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[C]

18 yeah, but other than those like make it as dark as you want or go more comedic or do whatever you want to do with it. And, and so when Fanguru was reporting on it, they were saying, you know, if you look at movies like superhero movies, like this is an abysmal, you know, failure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's not, it's not making that much money. It's, it's struggling. And what I've liked this year is there's been a lot of movies that have exploded way past. Like obviously Obsession has made whatever it's tracking to be like a billion dollar movie. It's one of the most successful, the

[B]

number one independent movie for, for, for films with million dollar or under budget. Yeah, I think it's number one now.

[C]

Yeah, you see that? You see, which I've seen twice as well. I've actually seen Obsession backrooms and Evil Dead all twice, which is crazy. But you're seeing Obsession blow up in the box office and then returning. And I think the big takeaway that I got reading through the article about it and then thinking about it is people are, I think a lot of times, the reason things fail in the movie industry and businesses in general is people want that big shoot for the moon. Like, we're gonna pour everything into this and try to, like, you know, put all our cards, you know, put all our chips in. That's not how gambling works. Put all my cards in, put all my chips in, and this thing is gonna do even better. And there's only so much money you can put. Like, we've seen movies where they spend a billion dollars, you know, to put a movie together and it fails. But it's like you're setting yourself up to fail if you're over investing and overextending yourself into this venture, you know, and so I think it's really cool, like, six into a franchise that is extremely popular and successful. Like, they could say, let's do our $100 million version of this. But instead, it was a interview with one of the producers, and he's like, the number one rule we have is just don't go over budget. Like, play within the sandbox, but, like, stay in the sandbox. And I think, like, that approach outside of the movie industry would be good for businesses that go, we're going to make sure that we have the perfect, you know, product. We're gonna have the perfect thing. And they spend so much money that, like, even if it is successful, like making 27, 30, $40 million, they've already spent all that money. Like, they're starting in a major deficit. And I thought. I don't know, I thought there's a good takeaway there, you know, when it comes to some of these movies, because that's where I think all the YouTube creators that are used to not spending a lot of money like Obsession or with backrooms, like, they're.

[B]

They're used to being forced to be nimble, you know, that the constraints sort of make the product better to. To some degree. Like, it's not. It's not just about throwing money at the problem.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and people, I think, fall in that. Fall in that trap a lot. And I've done that in the past as well.

[C]

Who's the. Who's the quote? The. The. If you launch your product and it's perfect, it's too late.

[B]

Reid Hoffman LinkedIn founder yeah, if you're not. If you're not embarrassed by the first version of your product, then you've launched too late.

[C]

Yeah. And I think that's. I mean, again, looking at the movies is like, there's things where you go, yeah, with a little bit more money. You could polish this thing up, but it's like, does it make it a hundred million dollar movie at that point? No, you know, same with products. Like yeah, we could dump another $300,000 into this thing, build this new feature. Does that turn into revenue? Coming back, what's been some of like, I think obviously like Silicon Valley software startups are like the most guilty of this where it's like we will be profitable in the next 16 years if everything goes really well. Most times it doesn't go really well. But like what are some examples you can think of where people are guilty of dumping that much money into something? And I think that's just the ultimate

[B]

example is Silicon Valley because it started glorifying the fundraise as though that was the thing.

[C]

Like the win is we raised a bunch of money, right? Which for the founder it can be.

[B]

I mean it keeps them employed at least, you know what I mean? Like they don't get that money. Like somebody goes and raises a 15 million doll dollar series A. It's not like the founder gets a million dollar bonus for raising it.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

They probably get a nice salary or compensation package or something, but they're not just getting all that money. So I think they, they, they put the, they, they moved the goal post earlier in the journey and made it as like we reached like, we reached the goal. Like we like victory, we've achieved victory because we got this round of funding. But the round of funding is like that's day one of the business, you know what I mean? Like now you have to actually go build a valuable business. And if you're overfunded, it might make you sleep better at night to some degree. But it also makes you make decisions for the purpose of over investing the money rather than looking at the product and asking yourself does is this necessary? Do we need this? So I encourage most founders now, like if you, if there's any path to bootstrapping this, I'd highly recommend that path first. Pull out all stops and try to make this work on your own before getting a bunch of capital. Because it's also, it's also another constraint. Yeah, meaning I wish I could remember the company I talked to the founder I talked to recently on the show. I'm blanking on who it was, but I talked to a founder recently who was talking about it was a software company and they were completely bootstrapped. They never took a dime of outside capital and we're talking a little bit about that. But the main reason for, for them that it ended up working out really well is that the first version or two of the product were not working the way that they wanted them to work. And so in his story, the way he was telling it was basically like, if we had investors at this point, at this stage of the company, they probably would have basically forced us to sell all of the data to make money, like to, to turn the product into data because bunch of users, we just weren't like, we didn't have much revenue. So he was like, if there were investors who were looking to get money back, they probably would have forced us. Like the board of directors would have voted. It would have been out of my control and they would have forced us to start selling data, which was never part of my plan. I always wanted to do this thing. And so when you're accepting investor capital as well, you're also bringing a bunch of other cooks into the kitchen, people who aren't in the business on a daily basis, who you have like one meeting with every other week or something, and then all they're looking at is the return. How's this going? Are we making our money back? And then, you know, they might give you some leeway for the first year or two, but once that Runway starts looking a little bit smaller and they start freaking out a little bit, then they might just force you to sell. They might force you out as CEO, bring somebody else in. They might make you pivot to different sector that you weren't. Weren't originally planning on being in. Like, you're giving up a lot of the reins, you're giving up control to some of these other companies who make sure to protect themselves and the structure of the cap table and the structure of the investment. And it's built for their protection. It's not built for your protection as the founder.

[D]

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[B]

So I think that that that was over glorified. I do think that it's at least less popular than it was.

[C]

Do you think that's just because people are not throwing money as freely to these things or do you think it's because people have seen so many failures where they're not going to copy the.

[B]

Probably a combination of the two. Like VCs are a little bit more trigger shy than they were in like 2020, 2021.

[C]

I think those were some record blazing during this.

[B]

They're putting a crazy amount of money in companies around that time and I think that they've sort of slowed down and, and are becoming a little bit more picky. Which if the capital dries up then there's fewer people who are going to go be able to get that capital. But I, I also think that there's probably a large amount of people online that are talking about this now and making it to where it's like this is just, this is an aid, this is a, this is a tool that you can use but it's not required for every single type of bit. Like that was what my software company. That was one thing that I didn't know what I didn't know. And I, and I definitely did not understand that the type of business that I was building it was not necessary to raise capital.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And build it the way that I was trying to build it. And so when we went institutional and couldn't get an institutional investor to put money into it because they didn't see enough of a total addressable market inside of the structure of the business, then it was like oh well we Got to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to bootstrap this from the initial capital that we raised plus revenue, and it turned into a, you know, massive problem internally. So not every business needs it. In fact, the vast majority, I would say, of businesses do not need a huge injection of capital at the very beginning. I think that you're probably robbing yourself from the ingenuity that's required, the, the nimble flexibility that's. That's required at the startup stage in order to be able to go find that product market fit and develop a product that customers actually want in the long term, you know.

[C]

Yeah, well, and you can't always buy your way out of a problem. You know what I mean? Like you. Some of it just comes from iterating, which obviously takes money.

[B]

But if there's a fire in the

[C]

business, you can't just keep adding bells and whistles or just throw or to make a product suddenly interesting. It's same with a movie. It's like you can have your $100 million superhero idea, but if it's not compelling to people, it doesn't matter. Versus a movie that has some corners that aren't perfectly trimmed and some things that don't look amazing, but it's a really solid story that was told on a small level, you know.

[B]

Well, the perfect example is the company that sort of tried to marry these two worlds, Quibi, that came out a few years ago, that did this, like short form, high budget, traumatic.

[C]

And it's so funny because actors, if they came out now, they probably would have had a better shot with short form.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Dramas and stuff. Because there's like a million Quibis out there now.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

Someone's gotta be first to get blasted

[B]

on the five years because I want to say they raised like a billion.

[C]

It was a lot. And they had some actual talent in them.

[B]

Oh, like that was. I think what was the majority of their budget was getting like real A listers to do these.

[C]

What am I, what am I looking at?

[B]

How much money did Quibi raise? Because they were, they were like definition of flash in the pan. Like they came on the scene, became massive, raised, I want to say close to a billion or over a billion.

[C]

They. They raised $1.75 billion.

[B]

1.75 billion.

[C]

And then they had $350 million left in cash to return to investors when they sold. Wow, that's crazy.

[B]

So they lit $1.4 billion on fire in like three years and then bounced.

[C]

I wanted to look at what stars. Yes, Stars that they had in Quibi shows. They had Liam Hemsworth, Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Lopez, Chrissy Teigen, Sophie Turner, Anna Kendrick, Kevin Hart, Idris Elba, Tracy Morgan, Gabriel Iglesias, Cardi B T Pain hits nuts. And again, they all got paid. Yeah, it worked out for them. Yeah, I guess you could say easiest work. Everyone else got shorted. I thought you were breathing on my legs. Met your dog again. I love that your dog just has ran in every episode. Just like, let me lick your elbow and then breathe on your thighs and then I'll bounce. What's up?

[B]

Just close the door after this, Sadie.

[C]

Anyway, well, that was my takeaway from it. I thought it was really cool because one of the people I was talking about and they were very pessimistic about it, but I thought the moral of the story is really solid. They said, unlike most studio movies, the Evil Dead films are produced on modest budgets and position to succeed. So even when a film like this underperforms, it can still find a path to profit, to profitability. No panic here yet where it's like, again, I don't know. I just see the other version of this so often where I watch a movie, I'm like, where'd the money go?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like, this doesn't even look better than these other movies. And then you watch a movie with no money and you're like, yeah, this is one of the best movies I've ever seen. This is going to explode. And it seems like people never take the right lessons from these situations.

[B]

That's what has me excited, though, about the next decade of filmmaking, is that there's going to be more opportunities given to people who think like that and probably a higher volume of movies made like there is now. But I think it'll sort of be a somewhat of a meritocracy to some degree.

[C]

And I think with businesses, you're going to see more people like the. The Cody Sanchez of the world, where it's like investing in these really reliable smaller businesses that can do really well versus, like, again, the moonshot ideas, where it's like, I have an app that flushes your toilet, you know, and it's like if you're trying to build the

[B]

next unicorn, like, the reason that's the reason they're called unicorns.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is because they're that rare.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you.

[C]

Depends on the region of the country you're in.

[B]

Anyway, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there, here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.