CO-HOST | Make Money by Building Trust Before Revenue

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Building Trust Before Revenue
Date: July 18, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest Contributors: Eric (Producer), Michael Smoke, Train Bloom

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Overview

This episode of Travis Makes Money focuses on the crucial role of trust in building a sustainable and profitable online business or personal brand. Rather than emphasizing quick revenue, host Travis Chappell, producer Eric, and their guest influencers—Michael Smoke and Train Bloom—unpack how creators can actually make more money over time by prioritizing audience trust over early, potentially compromising sponsorship deals. The discussion dives into mindset shifts, personal anecdotes, and practical strategies for creators to navigate sponsored partnerships, maintain authenticity, and build lasting relationships with their audience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Trust in Audience Relationships

• Longevity over Transactions:
  • Michael Smoke shares his perspective:

    "I want to be doing this until I am 50, 60 years old... You only get one shot at blowing your credibility and it's gone forever."
    (06:03 - 06:16, Michael Smoke)

• Trust as a Hierarchy Value:
  • Both influencers view trust as a non-negotiable. Train Bloom compares audience trust to fidelity in a relationship:

    "Trust is not a 99%. It's like a. You need to be 100%. ...People can see it instantly, even if they're not consciously thinking about it."
    (10:35 - 10:54, Train Bloom)

2. Choosing Sponsorships Carefully

• Brand Alignment vs. Early Revenue:
  • Michael Smoke warns creators about taking the first deal offered, especially if the product isn’t great—becoming a "billboard for brands" can erode trust.

    "A lot of people want to get on social media to make a living and so they'll jump on the first brand deal they get. ...Then they become this billboard for brands."
    (06:03 - 06:31, Michael Smoke)

  • Train Bloom and Michael both emphasize waiting for the right fit:

    "I would tell creators, wait." — "Wait as long as you can."
    (10:26 - 10:30, Train Bloom & Travis Chappell)

3. Real-Life Experiences with Brand Deals

• First Sponsorship Stories:
  • Travis and Eric share their first sponsorship experiences, highlighting that initial deals may not make you much money or sense for your audience.
  • Travis notes the importance of targeting sponsors that benefit uniquely from your audience, even if the audience is small:

    "If you have a small audience, you can still make money from sponsors. You just have to choose sponsors that stand to make a higher amount of money for each sale."
    (07:02 - 07:24, Travis Chappell)

4. Audience Interaction & Building Community

• Authentic Engagement:
  • Michael Smoke points out how personally responding to DMs and comments fosters loyalty and creates a legitimate audience.

    "People that trust you and want to learn... every decision I make with brand partners and in my business, I ask, is there the potential to compromise my trust?"
    (09:50 - 10:09, Michael Smoke)

5. The Hard Choice: Turning Down Big Money

• Long-Term Thinking:
  • Both Travis and guests discuss the difficult but necessary act of turning down lucrative yet misaligned sponsorships:

    "I haven't done enough due diligence on this company... if they're here with me, they're going to look at me as being the person who endorsed that."
    (28:48 - 29:18, Travis Chappell)

  • Travis on rejecting a high-dollar sponsor:

    "Turned down $100,000 on this thing that was costing me $100,000... but we gotta make the call that feels best for you and ultimately helps serve the audience most effectively."
    (29:23 - 30:14, Travis Chappell)

6. The Golden Rule for Monetizing Audiences

• Ethics in Monetization:
  • Treat your audience as you’d want to be treated by creators you follow; don’t push poor products for short-term gain.

    "It's all about doing the right thing by your audience. Treating your audience the way—it's the golden rule."
    (28:27 - 28:33, Travis Chappell)

7. Industry Nuances: Health, Wellness, and Financial Products

• High Standards for Certain Niches:
  • Discussion on how wellness and finance creators (like Train Bloom and Tony Coffee) bear heightened responsibility due to widespread industry misinformation and grifting.
  • Train Bloom exemplified waiting five years to take any sponsor, only choosing one that truly aligned with their knowledge and values.

    "He has called out several, like really well known nutrition brands... he said no for five years until he worked out this other brand deal which is going to be lucrative for him and completely aligned."
    (16:07 - 16:59, Travis Chappell)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lasting Credibility:

  "My dad said once you only get one shot at blowing your credibility and it's gone forever."
  (06:03, Michael Smoke)

• On Waiting for the Right Deal:

  "Wait as long as you can. And if you don't know if it's long enough, like, go longer."
  (10:28 - 10:30, Train Bloom & Travis Chappell)

• On Audience Perception:

  "Trust is not a 99%. ...You need to be 100%."
  (10:37, Train Bloom)

• On Sponsorship Dilemmas:

  "I just had a lot of people in my audience that were like, 'I had a bad experience...' After I got like the fourth or fifth email, I was just like, is this worth it?"
  (25:53 - 26:36, Eric)

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Memorable Segments & Timestamps

• [05:28 - 06:31] Michael Smoke on Trust and Brand Choices
• [07:02 - 07:24] Travis on Monetizing Small Audiences
• [09:50 - 10:09] Michael Smoke on Audience Interaction
• [10:26 - 10:54] Train Bloom on the 100% Trust Rule
• [16:07 - 16:59] Travis on Train Bloom’s Brand Integrity
• [28:27 - 28:33] Travis on the Golden Rule of Audience Monetization
• [29:23 - 30:14] Travis on Rejecting Lucrative Sponsorships

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a casual, humorous, and candid tone, with light banter between Travis and Eric, and a focus on real-life struggles faced by podcasters and creators. The conversation is honest about the industry’s financial realities as well as the personal codes required to make ethical decisions as an influencer or marketer.

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Conclusion

The central lesson of this episode is clear: when growing a platform, putting trust and authenticity above short-term earnings not only safeguards your reputation but sets the foundation for sustainable, long-term success. Audiences can spot insincerity and poor recommendations, so slow, values-based monetization wins every time—even if it means turning down tempting but ill-fitting money today.

Final reminder from Travis Chappell:

"Money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there." (31:01, Travis Chappell)

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To dive deeper into creator trust, audience relationships, and sponsorship decision-making, check out the full collab episode with Michael Smoke and Train Bloom, as recommended by Travis.

Transcript

[Podcast Advertiser]

I was recently on whatnot the other day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got

[Travis Chapel]

to go see if this thing is

[Podcast Advertiser]

real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just

[Travis Chapel]

having fun in the chat.

[Podcast Advertiser]

They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like, you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece too, where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to

[Travis Chapel]

see your face as the seller.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Travis Chapel]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. Our producer Eric is here in studio. What's up, man?

[Eric (Producer)]

Hey, how you doing? Travis?

[Travis Chapel]

I say you took a page out of my book today.

[Eric (Producer)]

What does that mean? What is that? What could that possibly mean?

[Travis Chapel]

Standard black tea.

[Eric (Producer)]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's definitely. You own that. You own that look. Everyone goes, oh, black tee. The old Travis Chapel look. Of the two of us, I always wear black shirts. Are you joking?

[Travis Chapel]

You always wear graphic tees with like.

[Eric (Producer)]

I haven't worn really graphic tees in a long time. Anyway, today, you know, I was like, could I sit here and record another episode and listen to you? Yeah. Could I instead play a clip from Michael Smoke and be edified? Yeah, I could. You know, Michael Smoke copied my look. The mustache.

[Travis Chapel]

He did. Really?

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

Did you have a mustache before?

[Workday Sponsor Voice]

He did.

[Eric (Producer)]

Pretty sure.

[Travis Chapel]

I don't think you did.

[Eric (Producer)]

I'm pretty sure.

[Travis Chapel]

I'm pretty sure.

[Eric (Producer)]

I'm pretty sure.

[Travis Chapel]

You're like, travis likes that guy. I should do that.

[Eric (Producer)]

I will say, when I was getting my haircut today, they did the sides, and they were like. They combed my hair down, and I was like. I told him. I said, man, this looks a little Hitlery pretty quick, doesn't it? I had the total Minecamp flick going. And then she was like, oh, yeah, Mashkenazi Jew. I was like, well, perfect person to make that joke to. But then I quickly said, I'm Polish. So, like, there's synergy here.

[Travis Chapel]

Totally. I think.

[Eric (Producer)]

I think they had it worse. I mean, neither of us had it worse because neither of us were there.

[Travis Chapel]

That's true.

[Eric (Producer)]

So it really doesn't matter anyway. Well, it does matter, but you know what I'm saying? Should we redo this?

[Travis Chapel]

I do know what you're saying.

[Eric (Producer)]

No, we shouldn't. Let's keep it in. Yeah. Anyway, there was a clip from an interview I was listening to with Michael Smoke that you were hosting, and he was talking about trust with your audience. Once you set this up, you talked to Michael Smoke and to Big Tony Coffee.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah. Train Bloom. Yeah. I don't know why I've never done this before, but now it's been the second time that I did this where it was like I had two people coming in, lots of cross, like, crossover on. The audience sort of knew each other already and was just like, hey, why don't we just sit down and have both of you on the show and we'll talk about something a little bit different than what we were going to talk about on each of your individual episodes. And both of them said, yeah. So, yeah, train at. Train Bloom at Higher Up Wellness, who are both popular wellness influencers, but they both have millions of followers across all their social channels. So I was like, why don't we talk a little bit about what it's like, what it. What it means to you to build an audience on social media.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah, I would do this, but I can't get more than one person to talk to me at a time.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, that's true.

[Eric (Producer)]

They're always like, do I have to talk to you?

[Travis Chapel]

Like, I have to do more of this.

[Eric (Producer)]

I love the sound of a Rubik's Cube just in the background. I literally feel like I'm going to rip out my own eyeballs.

[Travis Chapel]

I'm trying to do it quietly.

[Eric (Producer)]

It's louder. You're doing it louder. It's like trying to open candy in church. It's just louder and louder and louder. Ever do that? You ever open. What's the. What's the biggest snack you ever snuck into church?

[Travis Chapel]

I don't think I ever.

[Eric (Producer)]

Have you ever eaten a whole pizza in church?

[Travis Chapel]

Dude, that's a series right there. Yeah, just sneak in.

[Eric (Producer)]

Trying to open. Yeah, pizza actually. That's great. We should do that. Like, go to like a very quiet mass and be like, have a griddle in the back making bacon. Probably shouldn't do that.

[Travis Chapel]

Just a pig on a spit.

[Eric (Producer)]

Better than spitting on a pig. And who unseeded then? Okay. Anyway, here we go. So here's a clip here where that you guys talked about having trust with your audience and how that's important, and I thought it was good.

[Travis Chapel]

Okay.

[Eric (Producer)]

Do you remember this? Nope.

[Travis Chapel]

After you hit play, a little bit about your relationship with your audience. Like, in terms of how do you view trust where. Where on the value hierarchy is trust with your audience?

[Michael Smoke]

Oh, man, I think I, I want to be doing this until I am 56.

[Eric (Producer)]

It was weird trying to recognize him without him going like this with a phone, holding a phone in front of him.

[Travis Chapel]

But why Tell me a little bit about your relationship with your audience. Like, in terms of.

[Michael Smoke]

I don't know why we.

[Travis Chapel]

How do you view trust where. Where on the value hierarchy is trust with your audience?

[Michael Smoke]

Oh, man, I think I, I want to be doing this until I am 50, 60 years old. The goal is not just to.

[Eric (Producer)]

Just to make TikTok at 60s like, peace out, suckers. You have no longer have access to me. I'm out.

[Michael Smoke]

I'm done videos for the next year. And you know, my dad said once you only get one shot at blowing your credibility and it's gone forever. And that's why one thing I think of, and I want to encourage creators listening to this and it's not talked about enough, is the brands that you partner with. A lot of people want to get on social media to make a living and so they'll jump on the first brand deal they get. And maybe it's kind of a shitty product, but they're making a decent amount of money or they just want a little bit of money. And then they become this billboard for brands because they're constantly taking brand deals. And so when it comes to my audience, I'm. I'm big on responding, so I respond to DMs every single.

[Eric (Producer)]

What was the. Did you take any shitty brand deals in the beginning?

[Travis Chapel]

No, because my podcast wasn't big enough to get offered brand deals in the beginning. That's really the short answer.

[Eric (Producer)]

What was your first brand deal?

[Travis Chapel]

It was a local company. It wasn't really a brand deal. It was like a sponsorship.

[Eric (Producer)]

What did they sell?

[Travis Chapel]

They sold financing to business owners, small business owners. But the, the reason that it was that, that was the first one was that I had a small audience, but the guy that bought the ads was familiar with the audience and knew that they were actually engaged and things like that. And we had done some affiliate stuff in the past. And so he bought like a three month deal with me to sponsor a few podcast episodes. Ended up working out pretty well for him. But the reason I chose, like, if you have a small audience, you can still make money from sponsors. You just have to choose sponsors that stand to make a higher amount of money for each sale. Audible membership isn't really going to do much for, for you as a creator. If somebody buys something for 15 bucks a month, it's like, oh, cool, I made 50 cents or whatever. But in. Somebody applies for credit at this banking institution and they get a loan for $200,000 and that, you know, loan officer gets a percentage of that. You know, you can make a decent chunk of change.

[Eric (Producer)]

So I think my first one was coffee company.

[Travis Chapel]

Really?

[Eric (Producer)]

And I think I got 10% on sales for preacher boys. Yeah, I think they gave me like 200 bucks and then 10% of any sales that went through. I made like, poor sales.

[Travis Chapel]

Did you get any coffee?

[Eric (Producer)]

I did.

[Travis Chapel]

Was it good?

[Eric (Producer)]

I don't know if I drank it.

[Travis Chapel]

Oh, gosh.

[Eric (Producer)]

Oops.

[Travis Chapel]

Big believer in that coffee.

[Eric (Producer)]

I mean, it tasted to me, it tasted like coffee. I did t. I did taste it

[Travis Chapel]

because of the influencer thing where you're like this. Oh, my God.

[Eric (Producer)]

No, coffee is. No, I have to try this. I think I just drank it out of a mug and was like, oh, coffee. It tasted. I mean, it didn't taste bad. It didn't taste like dirt. It just tasted like coffee. But I don't. I'm not a coffee connoisseur.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eric (Producer)]

You know, anymore.

[Michael Smoke]

Whether it's questions or just a thank you, I try to respond to at least three to five. I'm in My comments, responding to people. And I frequently go live crazy because

[Eric (Producer)]

I responded to his story when you interviewed him, and he never responded. Wow. So, I mean, you did say three

[Travis Chapel]

to five a day.

[Eric (Producer)]

He's actually a liar. Can I have his number really quick? Can I text him, ask him when he got his mustache. And also asked why he didn't respond to my. Because I responded. I said, oh, Travis Chapel, I'm a huge fan of his.

[Travis Chapel]

Oh, oh, you did?

[Eric (Producer)]

And he didn't respond. And then he said something like, we got a real threesome going here or something.

[Travis Chapel]

He did say that.

[Eric (Producer)]

And I was like, why did you say that?

[Travis Chapel]

He said that on his story. And he also made the joke when we were there.

[Eric (Producer)]

Did he? So he meant it as a joke?

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Yeah.

[Eric (Producer)]

Okay.

[Travis Chapel]

He understood.

[Eric (Producer)]

Well, it's funny because it didn't come across as a joke.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, well, that's because you and you guys.

[Eric (Producer)]

You guys all seem to really get along. So what really happened?

[Travis Chapel]

It was a good podcast threesome.

[Eric (Producer)]

Did you guys run a train bloom? Stupid. Okay.

[Travis Chapel]

That was a good joke.

[Eric (Producer)]

Thank you.

[Travis Chapel]

I'll give you credit for that.

[Michael Smoke]

So that I can connect with them in real time and talk to them. And so I think that that builds real community. And now I have, like, I can see by memory I have 50 or 100 usernames that are consistently interacting with me.

[Eric (Producer)]

Sure.

[Michael Smoke]

That's how you build a legitimate audience. People that trust you and want to learn.

[Eric (Producer)]

How do you cough like that coffee train bloom cough from you?

[Michael Smoke]

So that's. That's the approach I take. And then every decision I make with brand partners and in my business, I ask, is there the potential to compromise my trust with partnering with this company, investing in this company, or making a video or designing a product? And you and I talked about that and the brand deals you take on and how long you waited to partner

[Train Bloom]

with somebody this year. I think it was the first one I ever did.

[Michael Smoke]

Yeah. And you've been creating content for five years, and it's a great brand deal, and it's one that's super aligned because you waited. So I would tell creators, wait.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, wait as long as you can.

[Train Bloom]

And if you don't know if it's long enough, like, go longer.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, wait longer.

[Train Bloom]

Like, I don't know if it's like. Like, go longer if you're not sure

[Michael Smoke]

it's not the right time.

[Train Bloom]

Seriously, like, I'm trying. Like, it's not a 99% of the time thing that trust is there. Like, in a relationship. Like, you don't want someone who you can trust 99% of the time. I'm faithful. 99% of the, like, 1. Like, that's pretty good. It's like, no, trust is not a 99. It's like a. You need to be 100%. And I think now more than ever, people can. They can see it instantly, even if they're not consciously thinking about it. They know when someone's trying to pull one over on them. And it's also, I mean, I'm coming from, like, I guess. I guess in a privileged sense, because I did coaching on the side, so I could. I could afford to not partner with brands. You know, some people, that's just what they go for. And, like, that is their main revenue source.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah.

[Eric (Producer)]

But.

[Train Bloom]

And it's hard. So I'm like, It's easy for me to say, like, just wait. Just wait. Where it's like, okay, rents due on the first. You know, like, that's going to happen.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Train Bloom]

But I do think it's advantageous to set yourself up in a position where, like, you're not counting on that. You don't need to rely on it.

[Michael Smoke]

Yeah.

[Train Bloom]

Or be attached to it because it. Trust is more valuable than someone could offer you a million dollars. And if it's the wrong deal, I still think if it compromises your trust, it's not worth it. Yeah, it is not worth it. At the end of the day, it's worth more than anything.

[Travis Chapel]

It's.

[Eric (Producer)]

I mean, a million bucks is a million bucks. You know what I mean? So I would disagree. You know, you can buy a new

[Travis Chapel]

reputation with a million bucks. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's. That's true. So never mind.

[Podcast Advertiser]

At all.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Train Bloom]

Forget this.

[Travis Chapel]

Anyway, that's why I say audience.

[Michael Smoke]

Oh, this is.

[Eric (Producer)]

We can listen to where you said stuff, too.

[Travis Chapel]

The whole thing is just building relationships at scale because easy. It's the. You wouldn't do that in an interpersonal relationship.

[Eric (Producer)]

No.

[Travis Chapel]

You know what I mean? Like, you wouldn't, like, try to sell your best friend on some. Like, you wouldn't, like, be trying to sell your best friend on a timeshare just because you're going to make a referral commission on the timeshare thing. It's like, oh, yeah. Like, this is going to be awesome. You know what I mean? And then you're going to go home, and then they know that you fucked them over.

[Train Bloom]

You're not going to be at the timeshare.

[Travis Chapel]

Exactly. Exactly. Like, you wouldn't treat interpersonal relationships like that. So don't treat your audience like that and don't be surprised if they leave when you do treat them like that. It's just looking at things short term instead of thinking about it in the long term sense. Which both of you guys this episode

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah, I'm still trying to get out of the timeshare you sold me, remember? It's really good though, the Lancaster timeshare at the end.

[Travis Chapel]

You didn't like it? No, it's an up and coming city.

[Eric (Producer)]

No, no, it's down and out. I thought that was good. Thanks for listening to that. No, I thought it was good because I definitely feel like I see a lot of people I know that take these brand deals. I'm like, you know this company sucks, right? And also I feel like, I don't know. Do you think it. I think Smoke posted a video about this today where he said, I would never do an ad for a company I wouldn't buy from. Like, he posted something like that. Like, do you take it that strictly? Is it just like as long as they're reputable and helpful to somebody, it's fine.

[Travis Chapel]

My personal opinion is more of the latter. To be fair. If you're in the health and wellness space, I think it's a lot different.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah. Or financial advisor advertising.

[Travis Chapel]

Like one thing I like about Tony and one thing we didn't get into, it was just a bummer because our. Our time window was really tight when I was trying to interview him after we did the combo and I had Smoke on before that. So I wanted to ask him about this. But like he has called out several, like really well known nutrition brands in the space. Who are the typical sponsors for people like him. And one of them I like, which is Element, I use that product pretty much all the time. But then saw him make a couple videos on and I was like, maybe I shouldn't be buying this that much.

[Eric (Producer)]

You know what I decided that is I tried some and I was yucky.

[Travis Chapel]

You don't like it?

[Eric (Producer)]

No, I tried the jarring the first time. Oh, that's lmnt.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, that one.

[Eric (Producer)]

And it was bad. And then also I saw the Train Bloom video and I was like, no, you. I'm definitely not doing this.

[Travis Chapel]

But yeah, he, he is there to provide accurate information to his audience, which is why for five years he turned down brand deals. And I'm sure that they offered him a good amount of money with the size of the audience that he's built to do some things like that. And he said no for five years until he worked out this other brand deal which is going to be lucrative for him and completely aligned.

[Eric (Producer)]

Who is that with?

[Travis Chapel]

I don't know. Actually, we didn't talk about the details of that deal in particular, but I, but I know that he, he's like, the day after we recorded, he was going to the east coast to help this big nutrition company with a new formula for a fiber supplement because he didn't like any of the fiber supplements on the market. And the ones that he's seen that they don't, they don't work the way that they're advertised or they're not digested the way that you would think fiber would be digested and things like that. So, like, he's not just saying the stuff that's like, oh, you need more fiber. So try out this fiber supplement from Fiber1 or whatever. It's always like, well, what does the data say? Is this actually helpful? Is this useful? Would I recomm this to a personal friend or a coaching client that's paying me money to do this? If the answer is no, then I'm not going to take any amount of money that they offer me to tell the rest of my audience that that's going to be the case, even if it is a good amount of money. So. But like you said, that's what's enabled him to build and maintain an extremely loyal and large following over the last few years.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

Is that they know that when they come to him, he is at least giving them the best information that he can give them. They know that it's not bought and paid for and that his opinion is going to change next month based on the new sponsor that's giving him.

[Michael Smoke]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

You know what I mean? And you see this happen a lot with other people where they've built a following. They do one or two deals with people that you're kind of. You kind of look at them and go like, really?

[Michael Smoke]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

Like that company, that's what you're going to promote. And they act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And the audience can just see through that.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

So, yeah, you. In a, in a world where your livelihood is depicted by your audience continuing to trust you even though it might suck in the short term, it's much, much better in the long term to remain truthful and honest about what you actually view as being correct. So I think the health and wellness space is a little bit different just because there's so many grifters in that world and, and a lot of the stuff sounds good.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[American Express Business Platinum Sponsor Voice]

You know What?

[Travis Chapel]

I mean, like, to me, element, like, piggybacked off of the Liquid IV trend.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

Liquid iv, like, got really big because their marketing was great. They were like, it's like drinking three glasses of water in one, which is, like, not true, legitimately just untrue. And then sodium is probably one of the only things in our diet, in the American diet, that we actually get more of than we need on a daily basis from the foods that we eat.

[Eric (Producer)]

That's the hardest thing to keep. When I'm tracking stuff, the hardest thing is sodium.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah. And it's different if you're, like. If you're an insurance athlete or something and you're running constantly or something. You probably.

[Eric (Producer)]

Energy drinks contribute so much, Right? Gatorades and stuff contribute so much.

[Travis Chapel]

Probably this Coke Zero I'm drinking.

[Eric (Producer)]

Can I. Can we detour from the finance conversation really quick? Yeah, nobody's here for that. I got a. So I. I stay away from a lot of, like, protein. Like, if I'm gonna get my protein, I'm usually going to chicken or steak. But I did. I bought some trashy protein things to help boost me that are, like, kind of snacky. And I want to get your take on this, because I ate. I ate 10 of these before I came. That's the serving size.

[Travis Chapel]

Oh, okay.

[Eric (Producer)]

And on a scale of 1 to 10, how. How do you feel? Like, what. How. How optimal is this for my diet?

[Travis Chapel]

I don't know. You haven't showed Doritos protein chips. I mean, I don't know.

[Eric (Producer)]

Train Bloom hasn't done a video on that, and I think you smoked it. Did he really. What did he say?

[Travis Chapel]

I don't know.

[Eric (Producer)]

Is he gonna break my heart?

[Travis Chapel]

I saw you post. I saw you post a video about, like. Like, testing them out or something, but.

[Eric (Producer)]

But legit.

[Michael Smoke]

Okay.

[Eric (Producer)]

Legitimately, though, can I say this?

[Travis Chapel]

Did they taste as good as regular Doritos?

[Eric (Producer)]

They're very good. I mean, they're very good. And I don't even mean just as protein. They're good. And they're way more filling than regular Doritos because one chip is one gram of protein. Oh, really? Yeah. So I.

[Train Bloom]

Damn.

[Eric (Producer)]

Like, I ate 10 chips, and I was like, I'm kind of full. Like, that was, like, a snack that filled me up. I gotta say that, too. Today. I ate a lot of trashy protein today, but I had some of that ghost cereal today, and I poured the core power in it. And, dude, the last few bites, I was like, oh, my God, that's so much.

[Travis Chapel]

It is very Filling, but it's like 70 grams of protein.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah. I was like, I'm doing pretty good today. Here's the Doritos for 10 chips. Okay. It's 150 calories. 10 grams of protein. It's not bad, huh? It's very small print. Eight grams of carbs. Not bad. Okay. Not, not bad at all. One gram of fiber. It's got everything I need there. The only thing that's really bad here, sodium 150 milligrams.

[Michael Smoke]

Yeah.

[Eric (Producer)]

But better than eating regular Doritos. Huh?

[Travis Chapel]

That's the, that's really the punchline is if you're using it as a substitute for eating regular chips, then it's definitely better to get some protein in. But it's still not, I mean the, the typical. What I look for.

[Eric (Producer)]

This is better than a steak. It's better for me than eating a steak.

[Travis Chapel]

Oh yeah, totally.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah. Because red meat bad.

[Eric (Producer)]

I will say I've had. So there's been a lot of movies lately that have come out not to make this all fitness related as we watch a clip about two fitness influencers and talking about finance. I have found. So I've been very good about. I haven't gone over my calories. I've had like a couple days where I intend to, but where I am bad or I'm a bad boy is that there's been a lot of good movies that have come out and I'm like, I really want to eat some nachos. But then I just punish the hell out of myself after and go like, I'm gonna walk 15,000 steps tonight instead of, you know, so I've been doing that. Or I'll be like, I won't eat as much food. Yeah, but I'm gonna eat a thousand calories of this. And that's pretty bad.

[Travis Chapel]

But again, but if you're budgeting right

[Eric (Producer)]

at the end of the day, doesn't matter at all. Do whatever you want.

[Travis Chapel]

Well, actually there was one, one thing that, that Tony said in our one on one interview that I liked a lot because I, we were talking about junk food and, and making sure that you have room in your caloric intake to be able to eat some foods that you still enjoy and not feeling bad about it. And I still called it like bad food or junk food or something. Like I like, oh, I can eat a, eat like junk or like some cookies. That's like bad for me. But I'm still going to eat it. It's in my calorie allotment for the day. And he was like, yeah, but it's not even bad. It's just like, it's only bad in the over consumption of them. He's like, even just if you're not

[Eric (Producer)]

eating a serving size, like eating chips and salsa versus eating a bag of chips and salsa.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, but I like that reframe though, because even in my mind it's still like this is.

[Eric (Producer)]

I'm eating a burger.

[Travis Chapel]

Eating bad food, it's just terrible for me. Well, but if you're making the right decisions and you got your protein in, you have some nutrition from the other food and supplements everything else that you had today, eating those two cookies fitting inside of your that still allows you to be in deficit. It's like that is, that's not junk, that's not bad food. Like, that's, that's just a diet and it's food that you're consuming.

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[Eric (Producer)]

Well, that's where I'm at. Like, it's like I'd rather save the room in my diet and eat a regular cookie than save the room in my diet and be like, I'll eat a quest cookie.

[Travis Chapel]

I'll eat these not good protein cookies. It's like they're acceptable.

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

As a food, but it's like it doesn't scratch the itch.

[Eric (Producer)]

I do like when I find like a core power I actually look forward to. I like the core powers or like the pop Tarts. I was saying, like, I do like protein cereal, man. It's good. But, but speaking of brands though, so I mentioned taking ones that like, are good for other people. Obviously it depends on the industry you're in because there's like different strokes for different folks. There. Speaking of which, my sponsor, I didn't even mean to do that, but I've been working on so many puns. Bbvibes.com Preach, boys, get a free vibrator right now. But brand alignment to me is like a big deal. And I've talked about the trust thing and I just had a friend. So I had a sponsor with a telehealth company. I don't know if I can disparage them based on our previous agreement, but, you know, and I had a good experience with them. I was doing it. It was a good, decently sized sponsor. And especially for a show of my size, it was a good one. And I just had a lot of people in my audience that were like, I had a bad experience, I had a bad experience, I had a bad experience. Or I, you know, my friend used like, whatever. And some of it was. Some of the complaints were firsthand. Some of them were just like, I don't trust the company. But I just remember, like, after, like, I got like the fourth or fifth email. I was just like, is this worth it if there's a ton of people that feel that way? And so I, you know, I didn't let it go to waste. I posted and said, hey, you guys matter to me. I'm not taking the sponsorship. And then one of my friends who hosts a podcast in a similar space was like, we'll take it. Let them know. Give them our information. But I thought it was funny because I was like. But I just remember seeing, like, yeah, the trust is more important to me. And it's going to be products that I actually use and feel comfortable recommending other people use. And again, you can get your free [e-mail] preacherboys but I think it is important. I think people underestimate that stuff. And I think about it in terms of when you come time to have your book product right, new YouTube channel, new video, like, you don't want people to feel burned because you sold them some crappy coffee maker or some protein powder. That sucks. You know, Like, I just think it's so important. And I like that they mentioned that. You know, it is hard because, like, he said he had a full business where he could say no to sponsors. But I think so many times in,

[Travis Chapel]

he probably could have doubled the size of his business, right, by taking those.

[Eric (Producer)]

Well, and podcasting and YouTube, like 10% of podcasts ever make money, which is crazy. But it's like, people are so thirsty for that. It's not even the money, but like the affirmation that, like, oh, my show's now a paid show. Like, now I'm making money. And I think they don't look ahead 10 years in the future where it's like, probably because most know they won't make it 10 more years, but they don't look ahead and say, okay, yeah, I took the shitty sponsor now, so I could say I made 100 bucks on an ad read, but how's that affect me 10 years down the road, you know?

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, it's all about doing the right thing by your audience. Like, treating your audience the way it's the golden rule, you know, how do you want the people that you follow to treat you?

[Eric (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

You probably don't want them to just sell you whatever for the sake of their own pocket. You know what I mean? Well, and that's why we turned down that massive sponsor for Dinner Party.

[Eric (Producer)]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis Chapel]

It's like. Well, I mean, it's not necessarily. It was. It was sketchy enough in my mind where I was just like, I know that if I take this sponsor on, I might have a couple guests drop out, some solid guests with good information to share. I'm gonna have to backfill it with people who aren't as good as these other people. The content's not going to be quite as good. And I haven't done enough due diligence on this company. It's like an investment company which can burn people and they can put savings in there and cash out 401ks. And if they're here with me, they're going to look at me as being the person who endorsed that.

[Eric (Producer)]

CEOs of these companies go to prison all the time. You know, there's lots of things to consider.

[Travis Chapel]

Yeah, it's was a bummer to turn down that money. I've never worked harder to turn down that much money in my life because they called me like four times being like, we really want to do this. They were actually upset with me. Like, I was on the call and like, talked to two or three different people from this team that were. That were like, legitimately being. Like, you said that we were going to do this, you're going back on your word. And like you, I was like, I don't know what to tell you guys. Like, the answer is no. And so sorry, not sorry, but we're just not going to do it. Yeah. So if we want to do something else, maybe like a different thing, a different way, and with the types of caveats and disclosures that I want to give, then, yeah, we can do something like that. But you know, turned down a hundred thousand dollars on this thing that was costing me a hundred thousand dollars was like well this could make me even day one without even getting into post production. And it was just like well we got to make the call that feels best for you and and ultimately that it helps serve the audience most effectively. So yeah, it's.

[Eric (Producer)]

Well, I'll take them. Just give me the contact info anyway. No, I thought it was a good clip. I thought it was helpful. There's to add there without turning this into a balloon three part episode, you know. Do you have anything else you want to add before you close out?

[Travis Chapel]

No, just go check out that full episode. We, I think we went 20 to 30 minutes somewhere in there on this sort of collab episode with Smoke and Train Bloom. So go check that one out. We talked completely about just social media, audience building trust and all those types of things which isn't normally the stuff that they talk about in their content. So I think it was a fun conversation and hopefully we get to do a longer form one in the future.

[Eric (Producer)]

I want to say something, but I'm going to tell you after you hit record or hit end record because I think it's a good idea and someone will steal it.

[Travis Chapel]

All right, so that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Catch you next time. Peace.

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