Travis (2:03)

I literally, when you were saying that, I was like, he doesn't look sweaty at all to me.

Eric (2:06)

Yeah.

Travis (2:07)

And then it dawned on me.

Eric (2:08)

It dawned on you. Can you want to slap that Bluetooth button on the Rodecaster and I'll. I'll pump this right into your ears so you can hear what Mister. What Mr. Nick had to say. All right, you ready?

Travis (2:19)

Yeah.

Nick Hubert (2:20)

I think there's so much nuance to this. It's such an amazing conversation. But, like, it's.

Eric (2:25)

It's.

Nick Hubert (2:25)

It's a priority thing and a mindset thing as well. Like, if you think that, hey, I'm just like, that's not on my radar. Hell no. Like, I'm worried about my business. I'm worried about my fitness. I'm worried about dating around. I'm worried about travel. Like, okay, then you're going to do those things until you're 35. But if you say, like, hey, like, I'm looking for a woman that I can trust and that stays cool under pressure, I can trust them, and they stay cool under pressure and they're willing to do this work with me. Because the bottom line about relationships is it's never fun. It's never easy all the time. It takes freaking work all the time. That's why, like, what you said about seeing a functional relationship growing up is so important, because doing it, it's funny.

Travis (3:02)

It was like, thought it was going to get better. It's like, it's never fun. It's never easy.

Eric (3:07)

It's really hard.

Travis (3:08)

Only hard work. It's like, wait a second. I don't know.

Eric (3:11)

It's like when you're talking to your buddy.

Travis (3:12)

Relationships, right?

Eric (3:12)

It's like talking about to your buddy that's going through a divorce. It's like, it's just the worst. And women are the worst. Like, I think maybe you have a very shaded perception right now.

Travis (3:22)

I think you're in a tunnel right now. But I understand what he's saying. He's obviously. He's clearly not saying that.

Eric (3:27)

And I'll just read his caption over this first. It says, all these people waiting to have kids until 40 is a national disaster. Be a man. Commit to somebody. Build a family. Get your shit together. You're being brainwashed into thinking your career is number one and the world is a bad place. Wake up before you grow old and die with regret. So with that context, I'll keep Playing through the club.

Nick Hubert (3:46)

Okay.

Travis (3:47)

It's not easy.

Nick Hubert (3:47)

Like, you name the most amazing woman in the world, I'll name a man who has been tired of her before. And the other way around, like, it's just a fact. You have to do the work to make it work. But so many people just don't make it a priority and don't make it a mindset until, you know, a little later than I think what their older self might want. So, yeah, super nuanced. I think your perspective is right. But I want more people. And another thing is the culture in some of these cities in America especially, the culture is just anti. It's anti. We were in Boston, like Zubi, this is a story that I haven't actually told before. We were in Boston. I was 27. My wife and I had gotten married a year earlier and we were pregnant. My wife was 26. We were at a party, like very shortly after she was pregnant and she's like, no, I'm not drinking. And all the girls are like, are you pregnant? And she said, yes, we're pregnant. And nobody there was even in a relationship. Well, a couple people were in a relationship. Nobody was engaged, nobody was married, nobody had kids on their radar yet at all. A bunch of 27 to 33, 35 year olds, they pulled her aside later at that party and we're like, hey, like, what do you do about your career? Like, what are you gonna do about work? Like, this is crazy. And she goes, well, I thought I was just gonna take my maternity leave and go back, but now that I have a baby in here, like, I think I might want to be a stay at home mom. And they, they're like, is Nick, is Nick making you do that? Like, be honest. You can be honest with me. Like, is Nick making you do that? And she come, we get, we're on

Travis (5:11)

the like, blink twice if you need

Eric (5:13)

help type of thing. Yeah.

Nick Hubert (5:14)

And she's like, nick, I want to leave this city. Like, none of my friends value this. I feel very hurt. I don't feel supported. I don't feel like I'm going to have community here when I do have a baby. This is not the, these are not the right people for me. And it was a very eye opening thing. And about a year later, we moved to Athens, Georgia where all of our friends had kids and they do value that. And many of the, many of the mothers do stay at home. So I think it's another kind of a cultural thing in some of our major cities too. That's a Little bit of an issue. And I think, look, there's. It takes work to be a dad. It, it's hard. So if you're not disciplined, it's never easy or fun. I'm your wife, if you can.

Eric (5:55)

Is giving hostage video vibes in this actually a little bit. He's just staring dead at 10,000 yards. Staring at the camera.

Travis (6:02)

Yeah guys, but you should all do it too.

Nick Hubert (6:06)

The hard things. Then it's not time to be a dad. But man, like you grow and you improve so much as a human being when you do hard things. You talk about this all the time. Subi of like that's why we work out, that's why we start companies. That's why we try things where we're likely to fail. Something about having a kid, man, it's just makes you better, makes you better as a human. And it's such an exciting journey that I think people don't realize how much benefit there is it. What I say is it like makes your highs higher and it makes your lows lower.

Eric (6:36)

A lot of lows to be clear. Mostly really, really heavy guys.

Travis (6:44)

What I'm trying to say here guys, is I need some help.

Nick Hubert (6:46)

That's an interesting, you know, if that's a relatable way to say it, it makes the good things in life even better and it makes the hards even harder because you have more that can go wrong when your kids can get sick and you have to watch your kids suffer and they're sick and they're suffering decisions that aren't straightforward. You know what I mean?

Eric (7:03)

Sorry, Nick.

Travis (7:03)

No, no, it was a good.

Nick Hubert (7:06)

He's.

Travis (7:06)

We're obviously being facetious here, but I

Eric (7:08)

was gonna say it is a weird when it comes to the advice of like, of like, you know, get, get, get married young, have a bunch of kids, have more kids you can afford and all that sort of stuff. I always feel like really mixed on that advice because same on the one hand I'm going like, on the one hand I look at it and go, yes. Like I. We were talking about this actually right before we hit record where I was like saying, you know, I got married super young, high school sweetheart, like and totally am in a completely different life stage than most people my age where it's like, you know, I've got an

Travis (7:47)

eight year old and have always been right.

Eric (7:49)

You know what I mean?

Travis (7:50)

Like even that like being married at 23 is like.

Eric (7:53)

Right.

Travis (7:54)

Most 23 year olds aren't 21.

Eric (7:56)

Yeah, right. Yeah. And so like that's the kind of stuff where it's, like, it's already very odd. But also, I don't regret that, but I wouldn't recommend it because we did very much get, like. I think both of us would say we both got very lucky.

Travis (8:10)

Absolutely.

Eric (8:10)

Because if I look at my peers, most are divorced, married again, or have kids, and it's, like, awkward and weird. But on the other hand, like, I also see a lot of guys, especially in the, like, entrepreneur space, that are like, you know, get married, do hard things. It's gonna make you better. And I also feel nervous when people go in with a mindset of, like. Like, almost looking at, like, a per. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna have a kid as a personal development tool.

Pharmaceutical Rep (8:33)

Journey.

Travis (8:34)

Yeah. Right.

Eric (8:34)

I guess I'm like, Like, how does that advice land for you? And, like, what do you think about that kind of stuff? Easy question.

Travis (8:40)

Yeah, really simple.

Nick Hubert (8:41)

Easy.

Travis (8:41)

We're starting off easy on this one. I like. You sort of go back and forth on it, especially as it relates to the kids. Piece of this, because

Nick Hubert (8:51)

we heard you.

Travis (8:52)

Nine years of bring back the snack

Nick Hubert (8:54)

wrap, and you've won, but maybe you should have asked for more.

Travis (8:58)

Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap.

Nick Hubert (9:01)

Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

Travis (9:07)

Because it's such a cultural shift that's happened recently where people are starting to not have kids as much or vilify having kids. And. And to. To some degree, it's. It's admirable to, like, forge your own path if you know that that's not for, like. I have a friend of mine who got a vasectomy in, like, his mid-20s just because he was like, I told

Eric (9:27)

you not to tell anybody about that.

Travis (9:29)

It's clearly not you. He's just like, I just. I. I know that I don't want kids. I. I don't know what life has for me, but I just. I have a lot of Clari. I don't want kids. It's, like, cool. I respect that. Not. I'm not here to, like. I am not typically ever giving blanket advice to everybody on the planet to say, you should absolutely do this thing. But I will say that I think there's a lot of people that are going to regret not having kids when they get older. That. That's sort of the worry for me is that it's such a permanent decision. Especially. And this is just a unfair biological fact, but especially if you're a woman and of course you can adopt and there's other. Other solutions and things like that.

Eric (10:07)

But I just. When you said that, I just thought of Steve Carel in Get Smart where he's like, he says, your eggs are going to dry up and fall out of your uterus. And then he says something like, you're the one with the dusty uterus or something like that. I just thought that's how that came off for me just now.

Travis (10:23)

Steve Carell Get Smart is a super underrated movie because it was like a PG comedy. So I think it didn't get a ton of praise, but it was such a good.

Eric (10:30)

The best line delivery of all time is when Al Narn is in the car and they drive through the golf course and he's like, are you thinking what I'm thinking? And Alan Arin's like, if you're thinking, holy, holy, a swordfish almost went through my face, then, yes, we're thinking the same thing. That's such a good movie.

Nick Hubert (10:50)

Yeah, it is.

Eric (10:51)

We should watch it right now.

Nick Hubert (10:52)

Yeah.

Eric (10:52)

Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in. We're going to watch.

Travis (10:54)

We're just going to do a watch party for.

Eric (10:56)

That'd be great. We should do a Get Smart reaction podcast.

Nick Hubert (10:59)

Yeah.

Eric (10:59)

Just every week we watch a minute

Travis (11:01)

of Get Smart social podcast, bro.

Eric (11:04)

You know, someone, someone did that. Not to go sidetracked, but someone actually did that for. I think it's called Minute at a Time. But it's, it's movie podcasts. So, like, they did like Michael Mann's Heat, and every episode was about one minute of the movie.

Travis (11:19)

That's great.

Eric (11:20)

So they would, like, dive in. It's such a smart concept.

Travis (11:22)

As an aside for social media content, I am really obsessed about thinking about, like, what's, what's the social media version of a show like? Can you continue. Can you do a continuous series of shows that are like one to three minutes?

Eric (11:34)

Oh, but they would do like an hour episode dissecting a minute of the movie.

Travis (11:38)

Oh, really?

Eric (11:39)

The show went on for a long time. So they'd be like, they'd talk about like the direction this scene or like this moment. But anyway, so biological factors to get to get us on here. Yeah.

Travis (11:48)

Yeah. So I just, I think there's going to be. And again, I think it'll probably be more skewing toward women in general because just. You can't go back and change it. It's such a permanent. It's a permanent decision either way. To be fair. Like, having a kid obviously is a very permanent decision. You can't just decide to not have done. But not having a kid I, I just. If you feel 100, like, I'm very clear, I don't want to have kids, then like I said, I'm not here to tell you that you should live your life the way that I'm living in my life. But I do think there's going to be a lot of people that are going to regret it later on, and especially women who are, like, aging biologically out of the ability to have kids, because it is. Nick is right in that clip. It is such a. An amazing experience and it makes. It makes life just like, so much richer and, and more fulf. Filling to me anyway, the. The depth as a man, the depth of emotion that it unlocks to me, it was. Was probably one of the biggest surprises. Like, I used to never just, like, tear up watching movies or shows and stuff. And it's like now after having kids, it's like, I'll watch like a commercial. It's like something about, you know, the holidays with your kids or something. And I'm like, you know what I mean? Like, it just.

Eric (13:09)

It. It.

Travis (13:10)

It opens up a new version of you and I.

Eric (13:13)

And I.

Travis (13:13)

And. And he's right about the fact that, like, the way that I would put it, though, it's not necessarily about. It's not about you becoming a better version of yourself. That's not the reason to have kids. But it is a very positive side effect of having kids because it does force you to choose difficult. Choose something difficult that makes you better and makes your life richer. And it's sort of that same thing that we always talk about, which is like, things that are awesome are equally not awesome, which is sort of what he was saying, which is that having kids is the best thing that I've ever done in my life. But it's also like, at the same time, sometimes the worst thing that, you know, it's like when. When you just want to pick up and go somewhere for a couple of weeks and it's like, oh, we literally can't do that. Like, we. Our son can't miss that much school. It's like, could we completely uproot the way that we live our entire lives and choose, like, homeschooling and be on the road? Like, sure, we could do. It's just there's so many other lagging effects of choosing that lifestyle. So then it just. Everything becomes a little bit more difficult when you have kids. But it's also, again, one of the best things that I've ever done in my life. And, and I, I think it. It's Sort of, it's sort of the same on the marriage side. It's just that you can change that as you get older. You know, you can always decide to go ahead and get married, but you can't always decide to just have more kids. Like I said, especially, especially for a woman. And I do think, I do think that we're especially. Women are biologically hardwired to desire that relationship more so than, than men are because it was the, the crux of their existence for thousands and thousands of years. And it's just like, just because now there's economic opportunity for women to have a career outside of the family and things like that does not erase the last 10,000 years of having kids and raising families and staying at home. So I think there's, there's some version of that and I, I will say that I don't like, like what he was talking about in that clip hits home for me because I, I don't like that that's happened. I don't like that, that choosing, that a woman choosing to stay at home and raise their, and, and raise the kids. I don't like that that has now been associated with like lack of success or, or that's, that's a failure in your career or is your husband making you do that, like that, like that type of that. That to me is the opposite of choosing to not have kids because that to me is like. You have been convinced by culture that this version of your life is a more worthy use of your time, which to me is objectively not true. Like you, you decide what is a worthy use of your time and raising kids is a fantastic use of your time. For, for most people, eczema is unpredictable,

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Travis (17:23)

Terms and conditions apply and and the stats back it up. That's the whole thing is like this is not just me or Nick or you like pontificating about our opinions. Like this is very, very data backed research that suggests that people who like that a woman raising a family tends to be happier throughout the course of her life and a man raising family tends to be happier throughout the course of his life and married people tend to be happier throughout the course of their lives. Like there's so many things that back that up and I guess like my like sort of parting piece of advice on that is basically is, is don't just don't assume that you know what it's going to be like when you do have kids because you just don't. It's, it's, it's easy, it's easy to like go over to your friend's house who have kids and like be and for an hour and a half or two hours get a little glimpse of the chaos that happens inside of a home when people have kids. Because it is, it's like literally when we were walking up to the studio to record today, I was like kicking stuff off of the floor out of the path to get here. Just like oh man, you know, have kids they said. You know what I mean? It's just like and, and, and, and people like us also sort of mock it in this like kind of open, funny way that it, that exaggerates the point a little bit more and that might rub off on single friends. But like when you get into that situation you see that chaos, you go, I don't want any part of that. Like, I go back to my place and, you know, there's no chaos. I get to do whatever I want. I can go wherever I want, spend my money on myself. It's like, okay, that's great, but don't assume that you know what it would be like if that was your kid, because you don't. And, and ultimately having, like, having those kids run around is like, yeah, it's chaos. But it's also every single parent that I've ever talked to whose kids are like, grown out of the house, they're empty nesters, all of them, whenever, you know, and they go like, oh, you have kids? I'm like, yeah. How old are your kids? Oh, five and six. They're like, oh, man, you're in the thick of it right now, huh? And I was like, yeah, it's, you know, pretty, pretty crazy times, right? And they're, they, every single one of them almost starts like, tearing up and saying, like, just, just treasure this time because you're, you're going to look back on that time as like some of the best times of your life. And so I, I think, I think just writing it off for the pursuit of a quote unquote career. I, like, I don't know, I, I, I just try to optimize for the back half of my life as much as I can without sacrificing the present. And I just see the joy in people's eyes when they're playing with their grandkids or when they're spending time with their families. And it, when you start getting up into those ages and you start looking back on your life, it's like, what are you really going to value at that point? And again, that does not mean that every single woman listening or every single man listening needs to go have kids right now. I'm just saying that I think there's going to be a lot more people that regret that decision in the next, like 20 years than the opposite of that, if that makes sense.

Eric (20:17)

Well, I think we should, I think

Travis (20:20)

real quick, sorry, but the getting married young part too, though, is like, that's, that's definitely something that I wouldn't say that you should do just because, like, you and I have talked about, like, we have so many friends because that was the culture that we grew up in was like, get married as soon as possible. Have kids as soon as possible. It's like, now we have a bunch of divorced friends because they got married at 22 to somebody who they didn't really know. And like, it's not necessarily you didn't know that you didn't know them, it's

Eric (20:43)

that they didn't know themselves.

Travis (20:45)

Exactly. You're supposed to change in life. You're supposed to grow into the version that you're that of an adult that you're going to become and figure that stuff out like sort of on your own, you know. And so we like, you got lucky, I got lucky because we happened to like figure things out with our spouse along the way. And then we ended up at least sort of on the same page for the most part on the things that really matter. Right. But there's so many other people that, that they become, they become their own person. And then the person they become is so wildly off base from the person that they, that they married and who that person became that, that they can't make that relationship work anymore. And then it causes a lot of turmoil. So to me it's like, it's not necessarily get married young. Don't, don't like, don't just be like, oh, the goal is to get married at 22 or whatever. It's like, no, you just need to become the best version of yourself that you can be and then go find somebody who has similar values to you. And then, and then it, from that point forward. I agree with what he's saying where it's like, it's just two people that constantly wake up every day and make the decision to continue loving each other. And that I think is what is what culture gets wrong about marriage in general is that they, they, they want it, they want it to be this, like this fairy tale ending where you have the butterflies when you wake up next to your spouse and it's like, look, we've been, Jackie and I just celebrate our 12 year wedding anniversary a few days ago. And then we've been together for this. June will be 17 years. It's like we know everything there is to know about each other. You know, like the, the, like the butterflies are gone. They've been gone for a long time. You know what I mean? But the depth of love that we can experience is greater than any butterfly feeling in the world because we actively every day wake up and choose to be with each other versus like not doing that. So if you have two willing people who are, who are willing to work on the relationship and choose each other every day, then the logic makes sense. But yeah, like you, like you mentioned, it's like you don't even know yourself how can you expect to know somebody else? Like if you're 21, you just got out of your parents influence.

Eric (22:44)

Yeah.

Travis (22:45)

Like two years ago, you might even still be living in their house. You know what I mean? Like you haven't, you haven't been separated from the nest long enough to be able to form your own opinions, beliefs and values in life. And so if, if you're in that position, it's just very, very rare. Like it ended up working out for both of us. But for every one of our stories,

Eric (23:04)

like 10, 15, 20 stories exactly of,

Travis (23:07)

of situations where it didn't work out. So, but I still would encourage people to like, there's something about that, that traditional, you know, family unit that still, that still brings a lot of happiness, joy, fulfillment, success. Married couples tend to make more money even like there's almost every marker of success is, is people who value those, those same types of values. And there's, there definitely is a cultural departing that's happening right now because of the rise of the career being the most important thing. And I think that, that, I think, I just believe, I believe in my heart that that's going to be something that a lot of people regret when they can't do anything about it or go back and change it.

Eric (23:45)

Right. Well, there's, there's a clip. I think it's perfect to end out the episode. So I'm going to go ahead and play it and Nick will love this one. Yeah.

Travis (23:54)

Ankita. She said, and for those listening on the podcast, we're, we're also live right now on Instagram, but she said her parents didn't let her marry because, because they're selfish. We have different people. I mean that is something you have to deal with. But I mean sooner or later you're going to be, you're your own adult and regardless of your parents want you to get married or not, you know, you have to make the decision for yourself. But anyway, sorry, go ahead. I just wanted to address that.

Eric (24:23)

This one's free. This one's for you, Nick.

Travis (24:25)

Sound of noise do you hate? What sound of noise do you hate? Kids playing

Nick Hubert (24:33)

hey, get out of my face. Such a perfect Anthony.

Eric (24:38)

What game, what game could they play

Travis (24:40)

that could truly drive you off a bridge?

Nick Hubert (24:43)

Just that screaming that like we're running

Travis (24:45)

around, we're screaming, I get it, but shut the up. On that note, what sound or noise for those listening? Anthony Jesnik, if you don't know who that is, is, he lives for those moments and he's probably, he's probably being sincere to a certain degree, but also being very hype hyperbolic when he says stuff like that. But yeah, ultimately I, I agree with Nick's take here and, like, do what you got. Like, do what's best for you. And if you have 100 clarity that that's the path that you want to take, then that's totally fine. But make sure that it's you. I guess just make sure it's your idea and not. And not the environment that you're in that's telling you that if you pursue a family instead of a career, which you don't have to choose, by the way, but, you know, if you pursue this versus that, then we're going to vilify you for doing this. And if it's everybody else's idea and not your idea and it's everybody else's belief and not your belief, then there's probably a higher likelihood that you're going to regret it later on. So just make sure that if you're going to make a big, permanent decision like that, that it's one that you want to make and not one that's. That's influenced by everybody else around you. So, anyway, that's it for today's episode. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems. You got money in the bank, so let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace out.