CO-HOST | Make Money by Demanding Financial Transparency Before You Give

Summary

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Travis Makes Money: “Make Money by Demanding Financial Transparency Before You Give”

Host: Travis Chappell | Co-host: Eric (Producer)
Date: July 7, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell and his producer Eric dive into the hot-button issue of financial transparency in churches, inspired by a viral Christian influencer’s take that donors have “no right” to see their church’s finances. The duo explore why demanding financial transparency matters not just in religious settings, but for any nonprofit—and share personal anecdotes, highlight recent real-world examples, and spotlight both the ethical and practical implications for donors.

The conversation is candid, humorous, and critical, offering listeners practical advice on vetting organizations and an insider’s perspective on church culture and giving.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up & Setting the Scene

• [00:31–04:03] Travis and Eric banter about vacations, family, and inside jokes—giving the episode its trademark laid-back, comedic start.
• Quick lead-in to the day’s core topic after sharing personal updates and a few humorous tangents (e.g., “Carpenter” ranking bit).

The Viral Tithing Clip: “You Have No Right to See Church’s Finances”

• [04:03–05:47] Eric introduces a viral video from a Christian influencer (“Charismatic Calvinist”) who adamantly claims church members have “no right to see” their church’s spending.
• Eric notes the overwhelming negative response to the video:

  "This one's got like 1,500 likes and like 284 comments. And the comments are not positive." – Eric [04:13]

• Main quote from the influencer:

  "You have no right to see your church’s finances. None. You are called and commanded to tithe your money to your local ministry. And then once it’s out of your hands, it’s God’s money, it’s not yours." – Charismatic Calvinist [05:11]

• Travis’s immediate reaction:

  "Crazy. Just don’t ask me to give the money then … That was literally one of the reasons I stopped giving." – Travis [05:47]

The Case for Transparency in Churches & Nonprofits

• [05:47–07:38] Travis and Eric discuss why transparency is critical:

  • Churches are tax-exempt, rely on donations, and, unlike a business, often lack clear, transactional value for giving.
  • Travis:

    "Any 501(c)3 should have some level of transparency into what they’re spending their money on because it’s the M.O." – Travis [06:37]

  • Tithing covers 10% or more of someone’s income—donors deserve to know what their sacrifice is funding.

• [10:26–12:24] Eric points out how members can’t trust “vibes” or guesswork—without data, there’s room for both suspicion and negligence:

  • "If you don’t have any data, you’re going solely off of vibes … If there’s no transparency, then people are free to assume the worst because they can’t see what’s going on." – Eric [11:32]

Ethical, Cultural, and Practical Challenges

• [12:24–14:49] Travis and Eric explore the risks for congregants questioning financials:

  • Being ostracized, loss of relationships, or being perceived as troublemakers.
  • The danger of conflating charisma with integrity.
  • Real stories: Some churches are transparent (e.g., church votes on pastor bonuses, visible building projects), but they're rare compared to smaller churches with perpetual stasis and “negligence due to incompetence.”

• [14:48–16:32] Many pastors lack formal business or accounting training:

  • Travis:

    "Most people will point at the mega churches … but the potentially worst part … is all of these small churches that are just negligent with finances due to utter incompetence … Just because they graduated from Bible college and a congregation voted them in as pastor, now they have complete control over the church’s finances, which blows my mind." – Travis [15:16–16:00]

Real-World Example: Church PPP Fraud & Hypocrisy

• [17:17–24:17] The show references an exposé featuring Nathan Apfel from the “Religion Business” documentary and a segment on Tucker Carlson:
  • Church of Eleven22 in Florida took a $1.7M PPP loan, bought a $12.7M hunting ranch soon after, and had their loan forgiven—essentially dumping the cost on taxpayers.
  • Quote from Nathan Apfel:

    "Is this Christlike? To claim financial hardship, take a $1.7 million PPP loan as you’re buying an almost $13 million property … that doesn’t sound very Christlike. And I got eaten alive for that comment." – Nathan Apfel [19:19]

  • Tucker Carlson’s satirical jab:

    “What was Jesus’s real estate portfolio?” [19:41]

• Wider observation: Church real estate holdings vs. spiritual mission; is owning expensive property justified or is it benefitting the pastor’s lifestyle?

The Bottom Line: Know Where Your Money Goes

• [24:17–25:19] Travis and Eric wrap with a practical takeaway:
  • Before giving to any nonprofit or church, demand transparency.
  • If there is little or no transparency, consider giving elsewhere.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Travis on Transparency and Giving
  "You should have at least some sort of transparency into where the money’s going or you shouldn’t be giving to the organization." [06:46]

• Eric’s Sarcastic Take on Donor Accountability
  "If there’s no way to know either way, if there’s no transparency, how do you determine whether or not something’s fishy?" [12:25]

• Travis on Small Church Risks
  "They don’t have to be a bad person in order to be wildly mishandling the financial part of the ministry." [16:12]

• Tucker Carlson (satirical)
  “What was Jesus’s real estate portfolio?” [19:41]

• Nathan Apfel on Church PPP Loan
  "That's not essential. And then dump $1.7 million worth of the American taxpayer … that doesn't sound very Christlike." [19:19]

• Closing Zingers

  • Eric: "If you want more money in the bank, become a pastor, start a church. Don’t take any questions from your congregants. And don’t pay taxes." [25:38–25:49]
  • Travis: "Just don’t ask me to give the money then... That was literally one of the reasons I stopped giving." [05:47]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 00:31–04:03 | Intro, personal banter, “Carpenter” rankings | | 04:03–05:47 | Viral “no right to transparency” tithing video | | 05:47–07:38 | Transparency expectations for nonprofits/churches | | 10:26–12:24 | Why “vibes” aren’t enough—risks of no data | | 12:24–14:49 | Social costs of questioning, rare good church cases | | 14:49–16:32 | Pastor incompetence, lack of business training | | 17:17–24:17 | Church PPP loan, property purchase, Nathan Apfel | | 24:17–25:19 | Practical takeaway: Demand transparency | | 25:38–25:49 | Closing zingers, tongue-in-cheek advice |

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Tone & Style

The episode blends sharp, critical commentary with humor and relatable stories. Travis and Eric’s banter keeps it conversational and accessible, even as they tackle complex issues about money, ethics, and faith institutions.

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Takeaway

If you’re donating—especially to a faith-based or tax-exempt organization—financial transparency is non-negotiable. Don’t let tradition or charisma override prudence. Vet organizations, ask about the money, and be wary of anyone who resents your questions.

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For more money-making (and money-protecting) insights, catch the next episode of Travis Makes Money.

Transcript

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[Travis]

Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis what is going on everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's a mission to help you make more money. On this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio. It feels like it's been way too long since we've done this.

[Eric]

I knew you were going to say that. That's very sweet of you to feel that way.

[Travis]

But I also realized as I was saying it that the audience does not feel that.

[Eric]

No, they're like, I've had a lot of people.

[Travis]

Yeah, we didn't miss any.

[Eric]

But it's just been a while since I missed you. I kept seeing pictures. I would, I would sit by the window, it was raining and I would scroll through your stories and mean your family. And I was like, it should be me. Yep, it should be me.

[Travis]

But you weren't there. You know how many cigars?

[Eric]

I had one a day.

[Travis]

Yep.

[Eric]

Really? Why?

[Travis]

Because it was an awesome view to have a cigar in front of.

[Eric]

Okay, cool.

[Travis]

It was my friend's house and she invited us up to Maine.

[Eric]

It's our friends.

[Travis]

Oh yeah. You know her?

[Eric]

Yeah, no, we. We're tight. We're homies.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

Are you?

[Travis]

No, I don't think so.

[Eric]

And we're friends. Yeah.

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Yeah.

[Travis]

You're friends.

[Eric]

You're not tight, I guess. No, we're. We know each other. We're acquaintances. Friends of friends.

[Travis]

But yeah, beautiful spot in Maine with an insane view. But the house I guess has been in her family for like 70 or 80 years.

[Eric]

Don't you hate that?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

When someone's has a house that's been in the family, we should never had a house in the family.

[Travis]

Yeah, it was amazing view. So like I, I knew the view going into it so I bought a bunch of cigars before I left because I was like, that is where I will be spending a good amount of my time.

[Eric]

Yeah, it is nice to smoke. That's how I felt in South Carolina. Was like, you look out of the woods.

[Advertisement Voice 3]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You just smoke a cigar and get stung by mosquitoes all the time.

[Travis]

That's true. Although I will say the smoke is like a natural deterrent.

[Eric]

Huh. That's interesting. I never correlated that.

[Travis]

Do you get bit by mosquitoes?

[Eric]

No.

[Travis]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Eric]

Not really.

[Travis]

They love Jackie.

[Eric]

I know.

[Travis]

We'll be sitting right next to each other and she'll walk in with 12 bites and I have zero.

[Eric]

Well, you know what they say, because she's so sweet. That's what people always say when you're a kid. But game is really like you.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's not true.

[Eric]

They never bit me.

[Travis]

Anywho.

[Eric]

Hey, wait. You can say anything about my core.

[Travis]

What shirt I got Candy Carpenter. I don't know what that is. Is that a band?

[Eric]

It's a. It's my friend. It's a musician and it is a band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like this shirt because it's. It's one of those shirts where it makes me. When I put it on, I feel like, you know, my dad's gonna say, clean your room. Like, no, dad, get out of here. It's got like that sort of like slipknot vibe and I'm wearing like my gray jeans with it. It's kind of like edgy.

[Travis]

Totally.

[Eric]

All I need is a Vulcan belt.

[Travis]

It looks like you like horror films.

[Eric]

Yeah, I do. I do like horror movies. But yeah, Candy Carpenter's the best. And if I was gonna do a tier list of Carpenters, it would be Sabrina Carpenter number three. Or. No, no, no. I'm gonna put Sabrina Carpenter Number 4. John Carpenter, the director of Halloween, Number 3. My good friend Kenny Carpenter, Number 2, and my all time favorite Carpenter, Jesus. He's our Lord and savior. Jesus Christ. That's good, huh? I thought about that joke this morning. That's why I brought up the shirt.

[Travis]

You just said Carpenter. That's why.

[Eric]

Hey, Jesus was a carpenter. Sabrina Carpenter had a shirt that said that.

[Travis]

Oh, really?

[Eric]

Yeah, I'm piggybacking a joke.

[Travis]

All right.

[Eric]

Anyway, anyway, I had a clip and you were in Maine and you engaged with this club while you were there. But I already did a video about this. Let me see how this video is doing. Actually, I want to see how the reception's been of it. I feel like it's gotten a lot of Traction. And do you know which one I'm talking about?

[Travis]

No.

[Eric]

It's about tithing. And you have no right to know where the money's going.

[Travis]

Oh, yes, I did see that one.

[Eric]

Let me find it.

[Travis]

Yeah, that was wild.

[Eric]

I feel like this one's been juicing.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's a wild take.

[Eric]

I can't find it. That's how much I post. Yeah, this one's got. Has like 1500 likes and like 284 comments. And the comments are not positive. So here's. Here's the clip. And I wanted to get your reaction to it because I saw you like it. I was like, travis makes money. Yeah, Travis makes money. There we go. Ready?

[Travis]

Yep.

[Eric]

Here we go.

[Charismatic Calvinist (Christian Influencer)]

No right to see your church's finances. None. You don't have any right to see what they spend.

[Eric]

Agree or disagree.

[Travis]

Crazy.

[Eric]

Let's start there.

[Travis]

Crazy. Take. You have no right to see your church's finances.

[Charismatic Calvinist (Christian Influencer)]

You have no right to see your church's finances.

[Eric]

I don't know if he's a pastor.

[Travis]

I know his Christian influencer.

[Eric]

His account is called Charismatic Calvinist. And he's got a pretty big. Big in a small world. He's got like 34,000 followers. I can't say it's small because that's how many I have. But anyway, he posts a lot of stuff. I don't know if he's actually a pastor, though. Yeah, but post Christian content all the time.

[Charismatic Calvinist (Christian Influencer)]

You have no right to see your church's finances. None. You don't have any right to see what they spend their money on. None. If you think you're seeing something that's problematic.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Charismatic Calvinist (Christian Influencer)]

Talk to your pastor. Ask him the questions. If he shuts you down, if something feels fishy, leave the church. That's the beauty of evangelicalism is it's a freaking strip mall. You go pick a different one. Right. But these guys that they demand. I need to talk to the senior pastor and I need to know every dollar where everything is sent, where everything is spent on, like. No, you don't. They're the stewards of that money.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Charismatic Calvinist (Christian Influencer)]

You are called and commanded to tithe your money to give to your local ministry. And then once it's out of your hands, it's God's money, it's not yours. You have no right to see your church.

[Travis]

Yeah, it's a pretty wild take also. Fine. Just don't ask me to give the money then. Yeah, like, don't have 43 giving banquets and then be like, well, you have no right to see what we do do with this money. That was literally one of the reasons I stopped giving like when I was first coming out of it. I stopped giving obviously before I left. And, and that was one of the reasons because I, I was like, it seems like you guys are just more focused on buying more flat screen TVs for the lobby. And that doesn't feel like something I care to give my money to. So I don't think I'm going to do that anymore.

[Eric]

Well, the crazy thing is too, is like tithing is 10% of your income. So you're giving 10% of every paycheck to this organization. I feel like at that point you should have some level of any 501C3

[Travis]

should have some level of, of transparency into what they're spending their money on because it's, it's the M.O.

[Eric]

but I mean, nothing.

[Travis]

It's not the same with, it's a business. Like if you're buying a product from a business, then it's none of your business what they do with their money. But that's a completely different thing because the transaction is transparent ahead of time. You're paying this money for this product. You're giving money to any organization, especially a religious organization that pays zero in taxes and can do whatever they want with the money. Then you should have an idea of what the money is being used for. And maybe that doesn't mean that you get to see a copy of the P and L or something like that, but you should have at least some sort of transparency into where the money's going or you shouldn't be giving to the organization. That's the only thing in that clip that I would agree with is that you should vet the places that you're going to give money. But the idea that just because it's mandated in the Bible, in the Old Testament, by the way, which has always been.

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[Eric]

There's even debate even if you are a Christian, right? Whether or not you should it should be required to tithe to the church

[Travis]

itself, you know, on an ongoing basis with every dollar you ever earn.

[Eric]

Yeah and even some churches that I've about from people I've talked to like even if they received gifts they would like. I feel like someone told me I

[Interjecting Guest 1]

think it was a car.

[Eric]

Someone gifted them a car but they gave the church, like, 10% of the value of the car that was gifted to them. And then, I know, like, tax returns, like, all that kind of stuff. It was like anything that we have.

[Travis]

Yeah. My favorite one was, you know, people ask me if they should be tithing on their gross or their net income. And I just always ask them, well, do you want God's gross blessings or his net blessings? And I always got a big laugh and reaction. And it was just like, basically, let me guilt you into giving money off the top of everything that you're making before you're paying, like, taxes and expenses. Like, let me just get a larger chunk of this.

[Eric]

And also have more kids than you can afford.

[Travis]

And also, don't ask me where I'm. Where the money's going.

[Eric]

That's what I was going to say. Because he says, if something feels fishy, by all means, ask your pastor about it. But, like, that was kind of the big thing in the video that stood out to me is that if you don't have any data, you're going solely off of vibes.

[Travis]

Right.

[Eric]

Where it's like, something feels fishy. And the two ways that can go is things can feel. If there's no transparency, then people are free to assume the worst because they can't see what's going on. But also, people could feel like everything's going fine. And then, like, the story we covered, like, a couple months ago, two months ago, you know, like, oh, there's half a million dollars missing. You know, like, that kind of stuff happens more often than not. So I don't know how you determine if something's fishy if you have no ability to see where the finance is going. I guess that is fishy in and of itself. But, like, his point doesn't really make sense. Like, why would you even raise a question?

[Travis]

Exactly.

[Eric]

If there's no way to know either

[Travis]

way, if there's no transparency, how do you determine whether or not something's fishy? And your. In that culture? And you have. There's stakes, there's things to lose, there's relationships to lose, there's being ostracized by that church community. If you're the one to bring something up and other people don't think that that was fishy, that's just a dangerous way to treat your finances.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I mean, it's your money. Do what you want. But, yeah, that sounds. That just seems crazy to me.

[Eric]

I shared a video, like, four years ago. It was, like, very early on in the days of doing my show, and I Basically said, do you want to know if your leader is toxic? Basically, I just said, ask them questions. And the response to the questions is going to tell you a lot. And I feel like this attitude of, I want all of this from you, but also you can't ask any questions about it. Tells you everything you need to know. And to his credit here, the one benefit is there are a lot of churches out there. So if you're in a church that's not doing that, it's not hard to be like, I'm going to jump ship and go somewhere where I can actually print out a pie chart, as Nathan APFO would like to do that and look through this stuff.

[Travis]

Yeah, it should be further up on the priority list than I think most people in that world put it. You know, they're going off of the vibe and how good the preaching is, things like that. It's like, well, that doesn't necessarily correlate to financial.

[Eric]

Sometimes the best speakers have the worst.

[Travis]

The most charismatic leaders are the ones that are doing shady things behind the scenes.

[Eric]

Did you see.

[Travis]

But also, it's like the sort of, what we talked about on that last episode was the. It's sort of negligence due to incompetence a lot of times, too, because, like, where I grew up, it was more like you could see what they were doing with the money. You know, I'm saying. So, like, even if the pastor would take a bonus or something. Yeah, it was very, it was very transparent. The deacons voted on it. And in my opinion, somebody who's taken a church from 12 people to 6,000, they should be getting paid well to do that job.

[Eric]

They are.

[Travis]

They are by definition adding value to a much larger group of people and should get paid more money. But we, we could, My, my point is that, like, we could see that that was happening. Like, we could see buildings being built on the campus. Like, we could see the actual use of the funds. But that is a rare case because there's so many churches, the vast majority of churches that are, you know, they've been, they've had 150 members for 28 years.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And it's like, where, what are you doing with this money? Where is it going? Is this just to sustain a lifestyle for you? Is there any intent on growing? Is there any intent, you know, like what you mentioned, giving to a building program. That just never happens over 25 years. Like, how long every year we're giving to this. Like, what, what's happening with this money in the meantime?

[Eric]

Are you, can we get A big thermometer. And can we start filling it with red to let us know how close we are? Yeah, but it's.

[Travis]

It's mostly just due to. I had this conversation actually in Maine. A couple people were there asking me a bunch of questions about this stuff. That was. My broader point is, like, most people will point at the mega churches, which there should be a spotlight, especially in some of these mega churches where they're doing insane things with their money. But the. The potentially worst part of that is all of these small churches that are just negligent with finances due to utter incompetence. Like, they just. They went to a Bible college and now they're qualified to be a ministry. Never took an accounting class. Don't know what a P and L is. Don't. Don't know anything about managing an organization's finances. And just because they graduated from Bible college and a congregation voted them in as pastor, now they have complete control over the church's finances, which blows my mind.

[Nathan Apfel]

I.

[Travis]

To this day, I don't understand why it's not like required classes if you're going to be a pastor to go through a semester or two at least

[Eric]

of, here's what, basic business management.

[Travis]

Totally. Yeah, exactly. Like, you are literally going to be running this. And even for a small church, you could be dealing with good. With a good amount of money. So it's not even just a matter of like, oh, I believe them. My point is that they don't have to be a bad person in order to be wildly mishandling the financial part of the ministry.

[Eric]

Well, that was one of the stories I covered again, early on in my show was there was a pastor who was surprise, surprised, engaged in a legal relationship with a teenager in the church, and he literally opened up a cell phone for her to communicate with him exclusively on the church's plan.

[Travis]

That's crazy.

[Eric]

And nobody caught it. Like, how do you have enough control over the finances to do something like that without anybody coming in? Be like, hey, what's this charge here? You know, like, to have that much ability is crazy. Speaking of church finances, actually, so there was a clip of Nathan Apfel from the religion business documentary, and he was on Tucker Carlson. I watched every episode of Tucker Carlson Show.

[Travis]

I know you're a big TCN guy,

[Eric]

but anyway, he was talking about Joby Martin, who is one of the, I think maybe pastors, the biggest church in the country right now.

[Travis]

Oh, really?

[Eric]

Yeah. Or at least maybe the fastest growing. It's a massive church and there's Been a lot of scrutiny. I mean, anytime a church grows super fast, there's scrutiny. And I've never done a deep dive, so I don't know how much is just people going like, this seems big, and it's probably something bad versus, like, oh, it's actually a little bit weird. But there's one thing in particular that brought some controversy, and it was the purchase of this property and how they purchased it. But, yeah, it's churches. 1122 In Jacksonville, Florida, the multisite church serves nearly 15,000 people weekly in person, with thousands more online. Yeah. And then they have 35,000 total participants across its digital ministry. So here's Nathan's little clip here about this.

[Nathan Apfel]

This church in particular, we did a series of videos on, because they took a $1.7 million PPP loan in 2020. A few months later, they bought a $12.7 million hunting ranch. And then a few months after that, the PPP loan got forgiven and it was dumped on the American taxpayer.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

And they forgave those loans.

[Nathan Apfel]

My question was, hey, they forgave the PPP loans.

[Travis]

That's crazy.

[Eric]

What are we doing?

[Travis]

What am I doing?

[Eric]

Did they forgive all PPP loans across?

[Travis]

Oh, I didn't know that they forgave all people.

[Eric]

Me and Tucker were operating at the same frequency. We didn't know.

[Nathan Apfel]

At least that's.

[Travis]

That's to my knowledge.

[Eric]

I thought it was just like, a lot, but I didn't know they did everything.

[Travis]

I'm pretty sure they did. I think they.

[Eric]

It doesn't seem fiscally wise for the United States government.

[Travis]

It definitely does not. No. But, yeah, there was a lot of fraud that. That happened.

[Eric]

Yeah. A lot of people went to prison for.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Abusing that. Setting up shell accounts. Right. Yeah. No. Somebody I knew was like, dude, you should get one because. And I think technically I could have gotten one because you could get it if you were a sole proprietor or whatever. But I was just like, I feel like I'll do something wrong and go to prison. So I was like, I just am

[Travis]

not going to do this with this.

[Eric]

But anyway, here we go.

[Nathan Apfel]

And taxpayer.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

And they forgave those loans.

[Nathan Apfel]

My question was, hey, is this Christ? Like, to claim financial hardship, take a $1.7 million PPP loan as you're buying an almost $13 million property. That's not essential. And then hunting dump $1.7 million worth of the American taxpayer. That doesn't sound very Christlike. And I got eaten alive for that comment.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

What was Jesus's real estate portfolio?

[Eric]

Huge you know what I hate? I hate. I hate when I saw a Candace Owens clip the other day and I was like, I really hate when like someone like Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson says something that's that funny because I have to like laugh and shake my head so people know I disagree. But like, when he said, what was Jesus's real estate portfolio? I was like, that's the funniest thing Tucker Carlson's ever said.

[Travis]

Accept jokes wherever you find them.

[Eric]

I know there was a I saw Candace Owens clip the other day and I was like, I gotta remember who this is. But that is so funny.

[Travis]

That's a good one.

[Eric]

Yeah, it was so good.

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[Eric]

I show you it after this comment.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

What was Jesus's real estate portfolio?

[Nathan Apfel]

Huge.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

The world that a man has no place to lay his head. 0 real estate portfolio. You got a negative reaction to that? Horrible.

[Nathan Apfel]

They said, nathan, at how many baptisms they're doing, look at how many salvations they're doing. And then one individual even put the percentage of the total PPP loan forgiveness debt in a comment. And he goes, nathan, this is all it is to the American public. He's like, it's 0.000022% or whatever of the total PPP loan debt. So why do you care?

[Interjecting Guest 1]

I mean, that reasoning justifies like, I don't know, shoplifting from a grocery store. They got tons of food.

[Nathan Apfel]

Exactly.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

What percentage. If I steal this candy bar, what percentage of the total candy bar inventory is that? It's just zero point. Point. Point. Point.

[Nathan Apfel]

That sounds pretty Christ like y.

[Eric]

Small Victorian. Tucker stole a candy bar after this and was arrested. It was all over tmz. He's like, no, seriously, what percentage of that.

[Travis]

No, I really. I've actually been trying to do the math on this. I don't know if you.

[Eric]

What do you think of that? I didn't mean to show that. Well, I did. We worked really hard to get that to play. But I didn't intend to show that to you. But it came to mind because I threw away the name.

[Travis]

But yeah, like you said, I don't really know much about this particular ministry to give any solid commentary on that. But that is sort of the, like, the. The reason why I like guys like. Like Nathan Apfel. And it's helpful to have somebody like that who's still inside of the Christian culture. You know what I mean? He's not. He's like. He's.

[Eric]

That's the only reason I don't trust him. I'm just kidding. See, someone's gonna be like, oh, yeah, exactly.

[Travis]

No.

[Eric]

Why do you say that?

[Travis]

But, yeah, he, you know, points out things like that that just seem to be glaring, just hypocritical movements from people who preach this one message and then do something entirely different. And like you said, like a hunting ranch. Was that something the church needed for something?

[Eric]

Yes.

[Travis]

I mean, like, yeah, I mean, if you ask them, yes, it's for saving lost souls or whatever.

[Eric]

But the idea of. I was talking to somebody about this, maybe I've told you about this before, but I was talking to a friend of mine who's a church planner in the Bay Area, and he was talking about. He was trying to talk about getting a building, and I was like, the idea in 2026 of, like, a church owning a building that they only use for Sunday morning. That's the only services they were running. I think at the time I was like, seems so weird to me. It's so much risk and overhead for something that's locked six days a week. Aside from a pastor maybe going in an office or, like, an occasional camp. And same with, like, having a hunting. I'm sure they would go. It's for retreats, it's for men's gatherings, it's for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it still seems so weird when, like, in 2026, a pastor wants to get his message out, could start his own version of a podcast, and they could have small groups that meet in coffee shops or in other buildings or houses.

[Interjecting Guest 1]

Right.

[Eric]

I don't know where I'm getting that idea from, but I feel like there was precedent for that. I was making a joke. Someone's gonna be like, what's the precedent? Cite your sources. I feel sassy today. But anyway, but. But I just feel like there's a lot where it's just like, this is for the ministry. But then when you start digging in, you're like, yeah, but the pastor really likes hunting.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Eric]

You know, like, it seems like maybe there's something there. I don't know. But I do think the idea of, like, claiming financial hardship, like, for a church feels particularly weird. And then be like, oh, we have $12 million to spend on this. Like, it feels weird to be like, let's get as much as we can get out of the system. When your whole thing is like, being truthful and virtuous.

[Travis]

I don't know, being honest and having integrity.

[Eric]

Glad I could show that to you, though. Finally. Appreciate that they don't want you. The video, they don't want you to see whoever they are.

[Travis]

It did take for those listening, like seven minutes to figure out, I am

[Eric]

not conspiracy brained until right now. You know somebody, one time I was trying to find the comment. One time somebody said, I was funded by George Soros. So I thought about going in because we have all the fake money. I thought about getting which news to me, but I thought about getting all the fake money that we have in here and just being like, when that Soros check clears. Yeah. But then I know somebody would be like, you're getting funded by George Soros.

[Travis]

I'd be so upset if you were being funded by George and you aren't this whole time.

[Eric]

Did you got to get over to our side. If you're too conservative and maga, you can get some Spotify podcast deals. If you're too liberal, you get George Soros. So either way you go, the problem

[Travis]

is I'm like, not picking a side.

[Eric]

You're going to be broke forever.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's.

[Eric]

That's the unfortunate reality anyway. All right, well, that's enough of that. I know we spent about 10 minutes of our 30 minutes trying to get a video to play, so.

[Travis]

Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest your problems. We got some money in the bank, so let's start there. And if you're giving money, do some sort of a nonprofit, regardless of if it's a religious institution or otherwise. Yeah, you should have some transparency into where the money's going so wild. Take from the DO to the beginning. That's it for this episode of the show. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Peace.

[Eric]

Hey, money won't solve all your money problems, but your problems are easier to solve with money in the bank. And if you want more money in the bank, become a pastor, start a church. Don't take any questions from your congregants.

[Travis]

And don't pay taxes.

[Eric]

And don't pay taxes.

[Travis]

Yeah, all right. That's a solid way.

[Eric]

That's a.

[Travis]

All right, bye.

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