CO-HOST | Make Money by Embracing AI Without Losing Your Creative Edge

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Embracing AI Without Losing Your Creative Edge
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest/Co-host: Eric (producer)
Date: July 10, 2026

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Overview

In this engaging episode, Travis Chappell and his producer/co-host Eric dive into the hot topic of artificial intelligence (AI) in the creative industries. Using a viral video from Grammy-winning producer Gino the Ghost as their discussion spark, they explore the implications of AI on music creation, copyright, artistic originality, and income opportunities for artists. The tone is candid, humorous, and balanced, as both hosts unpack the nuanced debate over AI’s impacts—without shaming listeners or resorting to scare tactics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI vs. Human Creativity in Music

(Starts ~01:11)

• Travis and Eric review a clip from Gino the Ghost, who reacts to finding his music in an AI training dataset.

• Gino distinguishes between two conversations:

  1. Music used without permission – a valid grievance for artists.
  2. Claims of copyright infringement by AI training – a complex and often misrepresented issue.

• Gino argues that being inspired by or training on an artist’s work is fundamentally how music (and art) has always evolved.

  "Every artist is a sum of thousands of artists that came before them...If a computer listens to 10,000 songs to generate music, it’s theft? You own the copyright...but you don’t own the vibe."
  — Gino the Ghost (03:08)

2. Originality and the Value of Human Artists

(04:08–06:00)

• Gino’s viral take: AI cannot threaten excellent artists, only those who are easily replaceable and uninspired.

• He draws parallels to legal precedents (like Ed Sheeran vs. Marvin Gaye) to show that inspiration does not equal infringement or theft.

  "If your biggest fear is that somebody can type a prompt into a computer and replace your entire artistic output, your competition is not AI. Your competition is being boring."
  — Gino the Ghost (04:38)

• Travis appreciates Gino’s nuanced, non-defensive angle:

  "I just like that it wasn’t just like a stop taking our stuff type of a response...Everybody gains inspiration from other people, and it is sort of generative AI just from other people."
  — Travis (07:54)

3. Industry Risks: Beyond the Art to Economics and Ethics

(09:56–15:34)

• Eric brings up a crucial industry concern: while AI might not out-create the best human artists, labels and companies could leverage AI to further underpay or bypass human creators.

• The risk is not replacement by AI per se, but that major players are incentivized to cut costs and potentially exploit AI-generated content:

  "My actual concern is labels, publishers, companies...using AI as a flimsy justification to pay the people who make the music even less..."
  — Eric (10:30)

• They discuss the wider impact on the "messy middle"—mid-level and indie artists who depend on less high-profile gigs.

• Parallel drawn to VFX and film industries, where top-tier artists survive, but the middle-tier can be displaced by tech.

4. Evolving with Technology: The Only Constant Is Change

(13:23–15:09)

• Travis asserts that technological innovation has always displaced certain jobs but also creates new opportunities—the challenge is adapting:

  "Technology’s always replaced jobs and threatened careers...but we’ve always figured out a way around it."
  — Travis (13:30)

• Eric highlights creative responses, like writers intentionally breaking formal styles to assert their humanity against AI’s uniform output.

• The conversation pivots to how creators can differentiate their work from the “AI slop” with risk-taking and personal touch.

5. Ethical Gray Areas and Broader Societal Impact

(15:14–17:24)

• Eric shares unsettling cases of AI manipulation in micro-dramas, where actors are digitally altered against their consent, highlighting ethical abuses far beyond music copyright.

• They agree that, while AI has promise, its application is as problematic as the intentions of the people using it:

  "If it’s going to be used for good or evil, it’s always going to be a high chance it’s used for evil...the problem with everything is people."
  — Eric (16:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Gino the Ghost on Artistic Value:

  "Great artists are valuable because they have taste, they have perspective, they have personality, they have a story. Things that don’t fit neatly into a dataset."
  (04:44)

• Eric’s Industry Realism:

  "Crappy musicians...are living, breathing people who are getting paid to make crappy, shitty music...The biggest concern to me is companies using this [AI]..."
  (11:34)

• Travis on Legal Misconceptions:

  "If you’re just going to claim copyright infringement, it’s like that is factually and legally inaccurate...Probably not a good attitude to go into the whole situation with."
  (09:20)

• Funniest Tangent:
  Eric jokes about “clapping Sam Altman’s cheeks,” derailing the discussion with an inside-joke riff on Travis’s support of AI. (06:11–06:40)
• On Human Adaptability:

  "You can’t just stop developing technology...it’s not gonna happen."
  — Travis (13:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment/Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction & Setup (skip ads/intro) | 00:30 | | Starting the Gino the Ghost AI clip | 01:13 | | Gino’s two conversations: permission vs. theft | 03:01–03:48 | | Gino’s main take on AI and artistry | 04:08–06:00 | | Travis & Eric’s reaction and commentary | 06:03–09:20 | | Eric on industry/label misuse of AI | 09:56–12:41 | | Discussion: Tech displacement & messy middle | 12:41–15:09 | | AI abuse in visual media / ethics | 15:34–17:24 | | Final thoughts and segues to other topics | 17:24–21:20 |

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Wrap-Up: Key Takeaways

• AI does not replace artistry: True innovation and unique personality in art remain outside the reach of even the best generative models, for now.
• Practical threat is economic, not creative: The real risk is industry players using AI to underpay or bypass human workers, especially in middle-tier roles.
• Focus on differentiation: The best way to avoid being replaced—by AI or anyone—is to create original, unmistakably personal work.
• Technology is both disruptor and opportunity: History shows adaptation is key; railing against change is less productive than asking how to thrive within it.
• Ethics are lagging: AI’s rapid advancement has already enabled ethically troubling scenarios—rules and industry standards must catch up fast.

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Episode’s Tone & Style

Candid, irreverent, savvy, and often playful, Travis and Eric strike a balance between optimism for creative entrepreneurs and a healthy skepticism about how tech will be wielded by industry gatekeepers.

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(End of summary)

Transcript

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's a mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show? My producer Eric is in studio. What's up?

[Eric]

I feel like Aretha Franklin. Look at this, Mike.

[Travis]

It was a strange move to put the mic way above your head. Hey, Eric.

[Eric]

So you sent me a clip of Gino the Ghost, huh? And he said probably his best take ever.

[Travis]

Yeah, something like that.

[Eric]

Yeah. Stupid.

[Travis]

Talking about the AI one.

[Eric]

Yeah. Here, let's watch it.

[Travis]

I thought it was a good one.

[Eric]

I don't know. Let's watch it.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

I want to know what you think about it. I don't have anything to say.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

So this will be good.

[Travis]

Play it.

[Eric]

Go ahead.

[Travis]

Want me to play it?

[Eric]

Yeah. I can't press the spacebar.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

All right. He says AI stole my music. It's the hook. Ready? Here we go. It's Gina the Ghost.

[Gino the Ghost (quoted)]

I stole my music. A new search tool went viral after artists discovered they could search massive AI training data sets and see whether their music was included. Hundreds of songs that I've written and produced over the last 10 years were found in this data set. So how do.

[Eric]

I didn't know he wrote music.

[Travis]

Did you really not?

[Eric]

No, I just thought he talked by a computer.

[Travis]

No, he's a Grammy winning producer.

[Eric]

For who? What has he done? Let's look.

[Travis]

I don't know.

[Eric]

I don't believe he's that good. Let's see. Geno the Ghost songs. If I don't know any of these songs, then he's not good at.

[Travis]

I'll say. If I don't know any of those songs. That doesn't really indicate much because I don't know that much about music.

[Eric]

Okay. Geno the Ghost, top songs. What are we doing here? The other side.

[Travis]

I don't know what that is.

[Eric]

Easy. Cough drop type beat. Type beat. I'm outside.

[Travis]

Do you recognize any of this?

[Eric]

No, he won a Grammy.

[Travis]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he won multiple Grammys.

[Eric]

Just giving out Grammys these days, huh? Grammy winning. He co wrote El Dia del Amigo.

[Travis]

I got nothing. But that is his quote unquote day job.

[Eric]

Oh, a Latin Grammy. And he. He's gotten. What are we doing? I don't. I. Anyway, he did this video. Let's. Let's keep watching it. He wrote songs.

[Travis]

The point is, is that he wrote

[Eric]

and AI took a bunch of his songs. And he's actually probably very talented. I was just joking to be clear

[Gino the Ghost (quoted)]

how I feel about it. Let's unpack it. The story going around is that Suno got caught with a giant hard drive labeled stolen music. And that's not necessarily what's happening here. Being in one of these data sets does not prove that any company trained and the key wor is trained. There are actually two completely different conversations happening. And if we're gonna have this conversation, we have to have the correct conversation. Conversation number one, I don't like that my music was used without my permission. And that's fair. We can have that conversation. But you disagree.

[Eric]

No. No. You think they should steal everyone's music.

[Travis]

I do think that most people get into a conversation without being fair about it. So I appreciate that he's trying to come at it from the angle of like, if we're gonna have the conversation, let's have the correct conversation. And this is a conversation that we can. His second take is more like, this is how I feel about it personally.

[Eric]

What was the thing recently? There was something from him. Recent? No, there's something from Geno recently. H3. What about H3?

[Travis]

Just about the AI licensing their content.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis]

Models and stuff.

[Eric]

That's crazy. But Gino, there was a take he did that you didn't like recently. What was it?

[Travis]

The Kevin o'. Leary.

[Eric]

Oh, that's right. Okay, here we go.

[Gino the Ghost (quoted)]

Conversation number two. This is copyright infringement. I'm suing. And that is wrong. Every artist is a sum of thousands of artists that came before them. If I listen to 10,000 songs and I write one inspired by what I learned, that's art. If a computer listens to 10,000 songs to generate music, it's theft. What makes it theft? You own the copyright, you own the melody and the words, but you don't own the vibe. You remember the lawsuit over Ed Sheeran and Marvin Gaye? They lost because if inspiration becomes infringement, then music just stops existing. Now this next bit is going to sound very harsh, but let's have it Out. If your biggest fear is that somebody can type a prompt into a computer and replace your entire artistic output, your competition is not AI. Your competition is being boring. Great artists are valuable because they have taste, they have perspective, they have personality, they have a story. Things that don't fit neatly into a data set. When you put that song out, you're putting it out into the world to inspire others. You don't really get to decide. You don't get to. No, no, you don't get it. Do I then sue my peers who also have been inspired by my song? Is Timbaland suing everybody that uses. No, I'm not threatened by Generative Model. Because you know what? That's what the music industry already is. Generative AI slop and people just trying to reproduce what's already out. And most of the music that comes out sucks, and that's why it doesn't cut through. And the music and the art that cuts through is the art that is pushing things forward and doing something that hasn't been done before or is doing something that's been done before in a unique way that tells a unique story in a way that feels incredibly human and evocative. So why the fuck do I care if they're training on my. You're going to make music hotter than me. Good luck. AI stole.

[Travis]

Yeah, I like that. The balanced take from the. From an artist perspective. Because I'm not. I'm not a musician, you know, so,

[Eric]

like, I knew you like this clip because you. You commented, clap, clap, clap.

[Travis]

I did comment. Clap, clap, clap. I'm trying to. You know what I'm trying to do?

[Eric]

That's what you're doing to Sam Altman's cheeks with all your supportive AI. You're clapping it because you support it so much. You're clapping cheeks, clapping clinker cheeks. Travis Jabble clapping clinker cheek. Since 2022. That's when you started.

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[Eric]

You're filthy. I didn't know that cheek clapping of AI.

[Travis]

No. But I liked what he was bringing

[Eric]

up about, like, God, Sam Altman. Can you imagine having to clap Sam Altman's cheeks? That would be such an unfortunate position to have.

[Travis]

I think this is the definition of a derailment conversation.

[Eric]

Well, we started talking about training, and I thought trains, and then I thought rails, and I thought, let's get off of them.

[Travis]

That makes sense for your brain. Yeah.

[Eric]

All right, go ahead.

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[Travis]

Yeah, I just like that it wasn't just like a stop taking our stuff type of a response. It was. It was sort of exactly how I feel about a lot of this stuff. But again, I don't feel like I can necessarily voice it because it's not my work that's being different and used for other things. But, yeah, there's nothing new under the sun. You know what I mean? Like, there's. Everybody gains inspiration from other people, and it is sort of generative AI just from other people. And your music should inspire people. And so, yeah, it makes sense that that's what's gonna happen here. And, like, what he said at the very beginning of that, before he gave his take, which is that I don't like the people who are using my music without my permission. It's like, okay, well, that. That's a separate conversation, and we can have that if that's one that you want to have. But this. This idea that, like, oh, this is. They're stealing my music and then creating something out of the what I created, and it's threatening my position. I do agree with him that it just means that, well, just keep doing what you're doing. Like, it's. It's behind you. It's gathering information that's already available and making stuff from that. It's not, you know what I mean, pushing the. On the envelope and making true art, which is why, to date, there's not a lot of, like, famous AI musicians. You know what I mean? To my knowledge. So, yeah, I just. I appreciate that it was like, sort of a balanced perspective, that it was like, okay, we can have this conversation here, but if you're just going to claim copyright Infringement, it's like that is factually and legally inaccurate. So who are you going to allow to have access to your music if you're gonna start gatekeeping all of it, you know what I mean? In fear that AI is gonna take your job as a musician? It's probably. Probably not a good attitude to go into the whole situation with, is my broader point.

[Eric]

Well, this guy's arguments should be made of. Are probably made of wicker because it's not holding water, but wicker basket.

[Travis]

But did you listen to that take before or no?

[Eric]

Yeah, when you sent to me.

[Travis]

Okay, so what do you think?

[Eric]

I think the only thing that I. Because I think legally, yes. And then I. But I think I agree. I like the mentality of it can't replace. If your stuff can be replaced by a prompt, then there's something wrong with your art, basically. Like, if it's that, whatever. But I think the issue on the AI side for me is that actually somebody said a comment to this because I was scrolling through to see what people were saying too. But it was a musician that said, on a creative level, I could not feel less threatened by AI. It's a mediocre technology that does not yet reliably deliver on its promises or does not reliably deliver on its promises. Yes, it will get more smart. Oh, my God, why? I can't read. That's why robots are taking over. If you can't read a sentence, AI is going to take your job. Yes, it will get smarter and more capable, but its potential is radically overhyped. My actual concern is labels, publishers, companies, et cetera, using AI as a flimsy justification to pay the people who make the music even less and take away what little power and agency we have left. And I think that's the only thing in his argument that to me falls flat, is that I don't think it's that, oh, can it make better stuff than you as an artist? Because the answer is no. It's all very derivative in a way that's like you can still spot it. Another comment was like, the one big AI hit is we are Charlie Kirk. That's pretty much the big dub. I think my concern is, and it's the reason I'm bothered by a lot of these companies training on all this stuff, is that even when there is shitty, derivative music right now, which there's tons of it, there's no shortage of crappy musicians. They're living, breathing people who are getting paid to make crappy, shitty music that's getting bought by labels. So I think the biggest concern to me is companies using this. Like, I think in terms of movie studios, they're not going to hire this composer because they have robot musician trained on all these composers.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

That, to me is like the weird ethical conversation that's like, should it? Yeah, but, like, yeah, it's not better. But do the people spending the money care? Even audiences, like, do. This is like the. The Marvel thing. It's like, does it matter if it's a good movie if people are paying to see the ip? You know, like that. I don't know. That's the only thing for me that I was like, I don't know about that. Like, that it feels like it's kind of yada, yada, ing that part of it, which is like this idea that it is all meritocracy. And if you're good, you're going to rise above. Because the reality is, like, most people don't care if you're good. They just want it done. You know, that. That kind of thing.

[Travis]

Yeah, well, it does gatekeep it to some extent, because the best artists are not going to be, you know, destroyed by AI. But there's. There's sort of a messy middle.

[Eric]

The people that aren't the best, they have jobs. Like, Hans Zimmer's safe.

[Travis]

Yeah, right, right.

[Eric]

But like, the guy that's like a. Working on a bunch of indie films, you know, and getting one or two features a year.

[Travis]

Right.

[Eric]

He might be.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You know, same with VFX artists, like, ILM is not going anywhere, but, like, production houses are closing all the time. You know, that sort of stuff. Yeah, but. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's the only. That's why I say it's made of wicker. Full of holes. Hey, what's this? Takes with cheese.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

A lot of holes.

[Travis]

The question then becomes like. Like, what do you do with technology?

[Eric]

Then stop.

[Travis]

Because technology's always replaced jobs and threatened careers, you know, but we've always figured out a way around it.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like, you can't just stop developing technology, you know, I mean, you can.

[Eric]

Have you seen.

[Travis]

It's not gonna happen.

[Eric]

Travis. Have you seen a little movie called Jurassic Park? You're so preoccupied with whether you could.

[Travis]

You know what's funny is I had never. Sure I've ever seen the full.

[Eric]

That's crazy.

[Travis]

The full original Jurassic park film.

[Eric]

That's crazy.

[Travis]

We watched through all the Jurassic worlds recently, but we did not watch Jurassic Park.

[Eric]

That's crazy. That's a good movie.

[Travis]

I've heard good reviews.

[Eric]

Someone said, my new Psuno prompt make me dope shit like the boss Geno makes. Thanks. That's funny. Let's see. I'm going to see if there's any other things. Yeah, I wanna see if there's any other. Yeah. I don't know, but I do like. I do like the. I do think that this is a. The idea of just focusing on, like, making stuff that is different and standing out because I read it. I think I brought this up before. I was reading an article about writers. It was like, writers are starting to break a lot of rules that have long been held in terms of like, writing style to prove that they're not AI. Yeah. And so, like, they're taking more risks with like, the formatting of stuff or like the perspectives they're writing in and stuff. And I think, like, there is some merit to that. Like, if you don't want to look like AI, which does. Like, it's like flyers. Like the AI flyers you see all the time now on your feed that all look the same. It's like, how can you market yourself in a way that's different than that, you know? So I think there's merit. Like, again, I take it on both sides where it's like, there's something there that I agree with. Something I don't.

[Travis]

I think musicians in general feel already

[Eric]

assaulted by music because so few make money.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Eric]

And the industry itself. But that's the thing is, like, Spotify, do you trust? Like, I guess that's my thing is like, I think he's too optimistic in terms of like, the industry itself is already shitty to musicians. And now if they can cut the musicians out, how shitty can it get, you know? I don't know. That freaks me out.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Eric]

It's like Hollywood. It's like Hollywood is already shitty. That's a crazy one. Recently, this is way different than this. But we just touch toes every couple minutes. It's very nice.

[Travis]

How about we play some putsies?

[Eric]

How about we just don't do that anymore? No, no, that's. This is a more egregious use of AI. That's like very ethically bad. But the micro drama thing, that's happening right now. I was reading an article where that industry is very unregulated. There's no unions, all that sort of stuff. And there's been a lot of actresses, actors and actresses, but obviously it always skews toward more actresses where they will film micro dramas. And then the producers who don't have any regulations really on them are taking footage and then AI adding, like. Like, one of them added, like, a kissing scene that they didn't film. One of them added, like, made a scene more sexual, using AI to like. And so they're like, it's me, but it's not a performance that I agreed to do. And obviously, like, there's so many more layers of ethics that go into that than anything you've mentioned here. But, like, that's the stuff, though, where I'm like, hollywood's already predatory and creepy, right? And now you have a tool where you can be like, okay, they didn't want to take their shirt off on the day, but we can make them take their shirt off on the day. Or I always just go, if it's going to be used for good or evil, it's always going to be a high chance it's going to be used for evil. That's the stuff that makes me go like, I don't know. And I don't feel too optimistic about humanity. I saw a post the other day, it said, the problem with AI is people. And I was like, yeah, the problem with everything is people, you numb nuts. And then I said, hey, ChatGPT, how can I slam this person in the comments? Make this sound meaner. Yes, sir. I can definitely do that. No, meaner. I see what you're going for.

[Travis]

Let me.

[Eric]

Sorry.

[Travis]

Anyway, well, yeah, if you have any thoughts on AI and artists, you know

[Eric]

what I have to say.

[Travis]

Musicians.

[Eric]

Gino. No, no, no, no. Gino.

[Travis]

Good one. Just clip that one thing.

[Eric]

I'm not gonna clip this. It's not good enough. You're like, I've seen some of the stuff. You clip your bars.

[Travis]

Yeah, you could. It would get some traction.

[Eric]

Dude, that Indiana Jones 1 is getting traction.

[Travis]

That's crazy. Still, every.

[Eric]

Did you see my James Bond one? The comments. Do you see the comments on that?

[Travis]

I saw it when he first posted it.

[Eric]

Can I read you the comments? Say I can?

[Travis]

Yes, you may.

[Eric]

Do you consent? To me, that's my favorite thing in a ninja cast forever is when they have the scorpion stinging and then it drops down on her shirt. He's like, do I have consent to get the scorpion? He's like, I have to ask. I thought that was very funny. Just as an aside, excited for the new movie? All right, Instagram.

[Travis]

Yeah. So for context, Eric posted a video about James Bond ranking his least favorite and most favorite for each actor, for each Bond individual James Bond.

[Eric]

But I have to show you this because the comments were just eating me up.

[Travis]

Yeah, I saw this one pretty early.

[Eric]

This has nothing to do with the topic. I just missed you. I haven't talked to you in a week. Yeah, so I posted it. It was like, best Bond, worst Bond. And I love Diana the day, which is like, most people say that's like the worst Pierce Brosnan Bond movie.

[Travis]

Really?

[Eric]

But I think it's so fun. And so I said in the video, Halle Berry. And yeah, that's true. And anyway, it's blew up and I knew people were gonna get mad about that specific one, but it's true. I believe it. And then I said goldeneye was his worst, which that is a crazy take because some people say it's the best Bond movie. I don't agree with. I think it's the most overrated. But the comments are nuts. Almost like, gotta be rage bait, bro. I don't like it. You must be rage baiting the entire Internet. Someone said, are we sure on this one? Dude, you're rage baiting. Doing a great job for getting comments. True. It was.

[Travis]

It's also funny that just rage baiting is you giving your opinion.

[Eric]

Yeah. Someone says, crazy. This one is crazy. This one made me like, someone said crazy take to say that Goldeneye is the worst. Already can tell he's not a legitimate 007 fan. Lol. Because why would I make this video, of all things? And Quantum of Solace is the worst in Daniel Craig's series. Wrong. Someone said, I just sat there kicking my feet in the air. Highly disagree. Never let this guy rate again. How are they going to stop? And I responded, this makes me want to rate more stuff. Someone said, legendary rage bait poll. You don't even know. I should start rage baiting because people. I will go to depths people can't

[Travis]

even imagine for just a wildly personal or subjective stance.

[Eric]

Someone said, you mix up the Brosnan's there, buddy. That's what they said If Pierce. That's what they would have said if Pierce Brosnan was in the Parent Trap and then they went to live at the wrong house. They would say, oh, you mixed up the Brosnans.

[Travis]

I hope that joke was worth it.

[Eric]

All right, well, go ahead and close out the episode.

[Travis]

That's it for this episode of the show where we're all over the place.

[Eric]

That's not true. We were mostly in the one place of AI and then we just went to James Bond real quick.

[Travis]

That's fair. All right.

[Eric]

It wasn't even all over the place, remember? You know what is all over the place. The tone of golden eyeing the most overrated James Bond. Oh, wow. It's a comedy. Now it's a drama. Now it's a. Okay, go ahead and close it out.

[Travis]

All right, well, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems, and you got money in the bank. So let's do that first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.

[Eric]

Someone said, as one content creator to another, well done on that random rage bait. I was already hooked into the concept, and bam. You genuinely got me. All right, are you rage baiting now? That's it. I'm rage baiting you right now.