CO-HOST | Make Money by Embracing the Grind (and Knowing When It’s Worth It)

Summary

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Travis Makes Money — Episode Summary

Episode Title: CO-HOST | Make Money by Embracing the Grind (and Knowing When It’s Worth It)
Host: Travis Chappell
Date: March 30, 2026
Description: Travis and his producer (Eric) jump in studio to discuss the real story behind making more money: outworking the early, exhausting seasons of entrepreneurship, balancing ambition and bandwidth, and knowing when (and how) to grind. Along the way, they dive into personal stories and lessons from Alex Hormozi, the psychology of “sprints” vs. “marathons,” and how the hardest phases set the stage for future freedom.

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Episode Theme:

"You can't skip the grind — but you can make the grind pay off."
This episode centers on the unavoidable hard work, long hours, and exhaustion that come with building something—whether it’s a business, a podcast, or a side hustle. Travis and Eric challenge the fantasy of overnight success, offering practical (and often hard-won) insights into when the effort is truly worth it, and how to push through the toughest phases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alex Hormozi on Outworking the Early Days (01:17 - 02:49)

• Clip Feature: Alex Hormozi shares his story of launching his gym with no money for employees—covering every task himself through 18-hour days, six days a week.
  • Hormozi Quote:

    “I genuinely worked about 18 hours a day, and I did that six days a week. It was very, very exhausting... I was the kind of tired that a good night's sleep couldn't fix... At the end of the day, you’re going to make a trade for what’s comfortable now for the thing that you want most." (01:45 - 02:35)

• Main Insight: Most people “radically underestimate the amount of effort that it takes to win.” The "grind" phase is unavoidable if you want to reach a place where you can step back or bring on help.

2. The "Tradeoff" Mindset (02:53 - 04:32)

• Travis: References Naval Ravikant’s ethos that every decision is a tradeoff; applying this to entrepreneurship means choosing a period of difficult, uncompromising work to get what you want later.
  • Quote:

    “Would you rather do 10 hour days for 18 months or 16 hour days for six months?... Neither is ideal, but the end result was worth putting the work into..." (03:36 - 04:06)

• Comparison to Tim Ferriss’ “Four Hour Workweek”: you don’t get the light schedule until you’ve put in years of actual full workweeks.

3. Personal Stories of Exhaustion & Growth (05:26 - 11:08)

• Travis’s Experience: Shares stories of “Grind Seasons” while building Guestio and rebooting his podcast as a full-time venture.
  • Up at 4:00am, working until evening on content and contract gigs to fund the podcast.
  • “Three to six months of all-out effort, followed by three to six months of being able to take a step back... it’s always been seasons.” (06:41 - 07:00)
• Lesson: The intensity comes in waves—embrace the sprints, but ensure there’s a finish line.

4. The Importance of Sprints & Light at the End of the Tunnel (12:45 - 18:20)

• Eric: Talks about how “sprint” mentalities help manage the grind.
  • Quote:

    “Even if the light is, okay, I'll know by this date. I’m giving till this date to make sure it works.” (12:56 - 13:04)

• Travis: Describes his commitment to recording three episodes a day for three months—long enough to truly test if that effort pays off.
  • Quote:

    “At the end of the three months, I will know whether or not it’s worth the continued effort... you should do [the work] long enough to be able to decide whether or not it’s a good decision moving forward.” (13:17 - 14:44)

• Analogy: Like long-distance running—break up the struggle with short-term checkpoints (“run to the fire hydrant”), making a huge effort manageable.

5. The Psychology of the Grind (15:54 - 18:38)

• Acknowledging the hardship gives power; choosing to see the grind as temporary changes how you perceive it.
  • Quote:

    “The acknowledgement of the fact that it might suck... gives me power to control my perception...” (15:54 - 17:21)

• Long-term gain outweighs short-term pain: “Every hour I put into this... the payoff is going to be so worth that.” (17:21)

6. Work Ethic Origins: Youth, Manual Labor, and Odd Sleep Stories (22:05 - 27:38)

• Travis & Eric: Reflect on working hard jobs in youth—manual labor, sports, and their formative impact.
• “Growing up in a fundy cult where they make you work a lot is great for learning a good work ethic.” (23:12, Eric)
• Falling Asleep from Exhaustion: Both swap stories about nodding off in odd places due to overwork—church pews, buses, cars.
  • Travis describes pulling over to nap due to exhaustion, narrowly missing accidents.

7. Practical (and Cautionary) Endnotes (29:00 - End)

• Avoid risky behavior during exhaustion, like driving tired.
  • Quote:

    “If you’re going through this phase of physical exhaustion from the amount of work that you’re putting in—don’t drive.” (32:58 - 33:04)

• The importance of recognizing limits, rest, and that new solutions—like Uber (jokingly)—exist.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the grind’s necessity:
  “You can’t get to the four hour work week without clocking a lot of full work weeks.” (04:06, Eric)
• On working exhaustingly for Guestio:
  “By 7am I was taking calls and from 7am till 7pm basically I was working and it was all like mentally exhausting work.” (06:00)
• On the power of sprints:
  “It’s the only thing that helps me mentally sustain life, that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.” (12:45, Eric)
• Making the grind manageable:
  “If I can make it to the fire hydrant, I can stop... It’s amazing how many fire hydrants you can sprint to.” (17:41, Eric)
• On work ethic’s origins:
  “Like, I was doing physical manual labor for eight hours where I’d like lay sod...rake manure...come home and just covered in dirt.” (23:16, Travis)
• On being truly exhausted:
  “Driving under the influence of sleep is just as dangerous. There were several times where I had to pull over... sleep in my truck.” (26:57, Travis)
• Practical warning:
  “If you’re going through this phase of physical exhaustion... don’t drive... Luckily now Uber exists.” (33:03, Travis)

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All-Stars & Memorable Exchanges

• Eric’s Sunglasses Joke:
  “With the advice that we get on this show, the future is so bright, I gotta wear shades.” (01:04, Eric)
• Producer Banter and Tim Ferriss Quip:
  “People want to skip to... They read Tim Ferris’ book ‘The Four Hour Workweek’ and then they go, ‘Alright guys, I’m taking off for the day.’” (04:18, Eric)
• Relatable Sleep Deprivation Stories:
  “I woke up, had ten missed calls from my boss... Our daughter had been up all night. Tara’s conked out, baby’s asleep, and I’m like, how do I explain to my boss that I just overslept?” (21:10, Eric)

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Episode Timeline & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Key Topic | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:17 | Alex Hormozi’s story (grinding solo) | | 02:53 | Every decision is a tradeoff—how to choose your phase/duration | | 05:26 | Travis & Eric share their most exhausted grind stories | | 12:45 | Sprints, checkpoints, and the “light at the end of the tunnel” | | 15:54 | Psychology of grind—owning the challenge, reframing hard times | | 22:05 | How youth & early work shapes your grind mentality | | 24:00 | Weirdest places they’ve fallen asleep from exhaustion | | 26:57 | Cautionary tales: falling asleep at the wheel, risk awareness | | 29:00+ | Final thoughts, sleep, and Uber jokes |

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Takeaways

• The "grind" is real, necessary, and often temporary: You can’t outsource or systematize yourself into freedom without first pushing through periods of incredibly hard work.
• Sprints—set clear timeframes, work hard, and then reassess: Having checkpoints makes the intensity manageable and gives a sense of autonomy over the process.
• Your ability to endure is greater than you think—as long as there’s purpose and a finish line in sight.
• Don’t glorify the grind at the cost of safety—recognize when to rest.

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For listeners:
Whether you’re in the middle of an exhausting phase or considering a new path, this episode underscores that there’s no shortcut to the “easy” part—and that embracing, not evading, the grind is the surest way to eventual freedom and success.

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Transcript

[A]

AI is incredible. It can teach you how to fry an egg and even write a poem, pirate style, but it knows nothing about your work. Slackbot is different. It doesn't just know the facts. It knows your schedule. It can turn a brainstorm into a brief. And it doesn't need to be taught, because Slackbot isn't just another AI It's AI that knows your work as well as you do. Visit slack.com meetslackbot to learn more. You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, my producer is in studio. What's up?

[B]

Hey, what's going on, Travis? Good to be here.

[A]

It's a beautiful sunglasses indoors Friday.

[B]

Who said that? Who said that? I can't see you because I'm wearing sunglasses inside, which is a strange move

[A]

because you're not even on camera.

[B]

Do you know why I'm wearing sunglasses?

[A]

No.

[B]

Because with the advice that we get on this show, the future is so bright, I got to wear shades.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

Hey, brother. So anyway, I have a clip from Alex Hermosi. I don't know if you're familiar with Alex Hermosi.

[A]

Ooh, he's topless. It's always a weird thing to say about dudes.

[B]

I'm posting that. This is Alex Hormozi, and this is a video that says if you can't afford employees. And so I'm going to show you this clip and then I'm going to take it off the screen. I'm going to ask you some questions. Are you ready?

[A]

Let's do it.

[C]

I started my gym, I couldn't afford employees, and so the way that I.

[B]

He still can't afford a shirt. You should say that. That's a good clip right there. Here wasn't.

[A]

No, no, you're good.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So when I started my gym, I couldn't afford employees, and so the way that I actually was able to afford payroll. Here's the trick. I did everything. I clean the floors, I fixed the equipment, I ran the billing, I made the sales, I ran the ads, I recorded the ads, I taught all the sessions. And so I genuinely worked about 18 hours a day, and I did that six days a week. It was very, very exhausting. It was one of the few times in my life where I was actually chronically underslept to like nearly a medical degree. I could sleep standing up, like people use that saying. But I actually had fallen asleep many times with my head against the wall standing. I was the kind of tired that a good night's sleep couldn't fix. I think that most people radically underestimate the amount of effort that it takes to win in the BE thing because they hear all this stuff about work life balance. They hear all this stuff about, you know, you don't want to sacrifice your family life, you don't want to sacrifice your health. The thing is, is at the end of the day, you're going to make a trade for what's comfortable now for the thing that you want most. And for me, I would rather get through that phase as fast as we possible. When you do that phase, you have to do today's job and tomorrow's job and the next day's job to get ahead. So when I started my.

[A]

So yeah, you had questions or you

[B]

want me to just give your immediate reaction first?

[A]

Well, yeah, it goes back to, I think it was a naval quote where he said, basically every, every decision is a trade off. And that is ultimately what Alex is talking about there, where, you know, people want to skip to the part where they just, it's like, well, I have a business, so I get to hire employees now. It's like, well, but if you can't afford to hire employees, then you, then you can't hire employees now. You have to do the hard part first to then be able to afford to get to that part. And to his credit, even though it might be physically exhausting for a period of time, the more volume you do in that beginner period, the faster you're going to get to the point where then you can offload it. Whereas, like, he might have been able to cut off, instead of 16 hour days, he could have done 10 hour days. It just might have taken him another six months to a year to get to the point where he could then hire employees. And it's like, well, would you rather do 10 hour days for 18 months or 16 hour days for six months? You know, it's like neither one of them is a great case scenario. But also the end result was worth putting the work into for, you know, for, for his goals and his purpose and mission, which was to build gyms. So yeah, ended up working out, I would say.

[B]

Yeah, it's, I think it's safe to say you can't get to the four hour work week without clocking a lot of full work weeks.

[A]

You're cooking with that one, huh?

[B]

No, but it is true. People want to skip to. They. They read Tim Ferris book the four hour work week, and then they go, all right, guys, I'm taking off for the day. And it's like, well, the amount of work that it takes to get to where you can have the four hour work week is immense.

[A]

That's very true.

[B]

I thought it was cool, what I just said.

[A]

I know you did because you pulled your shades down while you said pretty cool.

[B]

Anyway, whatever, man. Call Alex right now and ask him if that was cool. I wonder if he has any unclaimed property.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Maybe he does. He probably has a lot of unclaimed property.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

I just feel like half of them are. It would be like, I'm not going to go hustle for. In the time it would take me to get my 20,000, I've already made 3 million. I lost $20,000 taking this phone call. Travis, that's not what Harmonies acts like, probably. I mean, I don't know. He never answers when I call. All right, so let me ask you this question first. What's the most. This is a story question. What's the most tired you've ever been from working? Like, Hormozi? When he describes, like, falling asleep standing against the wal. What's the most exhausted you've ever been?

[A]

Probably around the time that we were really pushing Gestio, like when we were in the middle of that build because. Because of some of the same things that he's talking about there where, like, I. We raised money. But it was also, I was deploying that capital against the things that I couldn't do, which was like building, like, writing code and building the software. So the majority of the other work just basically fell on our core internal team. And I was basically doing. I was like, fully responsible for bringing in all customers. And then I also had a hand in the fulfillment process. And then I also was doing, like, product reviews and tech reviews, and I was also selling people and I was also recording ads. And so that was. That was pretty exhausting. And then this past year, honestly, when after I. After I sold Guestio, I basically was back to the drawing board on my personal stuff, and the podcast was not yet in a position to be able to support me full time. So what I, What I started doing was basically contractor work on the side. So I'd do like, some coaching and some consulting, and then I did some, like, talent work. For other people's ads. And then I did some sales, contracted work, contractor work, but all with the purpose and the intent of getting the podcast to be the full time thing. So it was like we couldn't, we couldn't take a step back from recording content. So. And we were increasing volume on content so that we could make it the full time thing. But then, so I couldn't drop the ball on the volume of output that we were doing on the content side. But I was also working, you know, six to eight hours a day doing all the other stuff that I was doing to make the money to then plow back into the podcast to turn into the full time thing. So there was, and then, and then I was, so I was, I was getting up around 4 or 4:30, between 4 and 4:30 every day and then just going directly to the gym, getting a workout in because I didn't want to drop the ball on that and then come home. And then by 7am I was taking calls and from 7am Till 7pm Basically I was working and it was all like mentally exhausting work. So like, lots of sales calls, lots of coaching calls, lots of, lots of podcast recordings. So like by the end of the day my voice was completely fried. My brain couldn't process another thing. And then, dude, I would knock out at probably 8:00pm, 8:15, I was like, couldn't keep my eyes open type of a thing. So yeah, it's always been, it's always been phases for me. It's always been like three to six months of like this type of. This episode of the show is brought to you by Mars Men. So look guys, I don't know if everybody listening knows this, but a couple years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. 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Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit [e-mail] collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo me stashterms max $100 cash back per month all out effort followed by 3 to 6 months of like, okay, I can kind of like take a step back now and catch my breath, you know, so it's always, always been seasons. But that, that, that's what I, that's kind of what I think what Alex's point is there is that it, it is Season like it's, you don't have to do the, what he was doing for the entire duration of running the gyms. It's just that it, if you want to get to this point faster, then you need to put in more work now you know right.

[B]

Well. And if you are doing that three years in, you haven't set it up

[A]

in a very good way exactly.

[B]

Like there's something isn't working or whatever

[A]

it is, the beginning of doing anything is going to inevitably be shitty once you get past the novelty of it. Because at the very, very beginning it's like everything's novel, everything's new and you're just like having fun doing something that means something to you, that matters to you. But once you get past the novelty phase, then it's several months of just like beating your head against a wall, not seeing any results. You're not that good yet. You don't, you're not having money pour into the bank account. You're doing all of the work with none of the results and you're past the novelty. So it's like if, if you, if you are trying to insert balance into life at that point, then all you're doing is, all you're doing is extending that phase for a longer period of time until you get to the result that you want. So if you just, if you, if you would prefer just to get to that end result faster, then ultimately you have to buckle down and be willing to put in that type of work or that, that type of effort for a much shorter period of time so that you can get to the point where it's like, all right, well now we got something humming here. I can go hire my first employ, take these tasks off my plate. And to be fair now it's probably a little bit easier because of tools like AI. Like if you're the one being like the lever puller on all, like you're writing the copy, you're filming the ads, you're doing like you can, you know, introduce AI to take at least a little bit of that lever pulling work off of your plate. But still it's going to require that all out effort for a period of time so you can get to the next phase where then the work just looks a little bit different.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I love, I always love sprint. I just like sprints. I feel like we keep talking about sprints. Yeah, last several times you recorded. But I feel like it's the only thing that helps me mentally sustain life,

[A]

that there's a light at the end of the tunnel?

[B]

Yeah. Even if the light is okay, I'll know by this date. I'm giving till this date to make sure it works.

[A]

Exactly. Well, we're doing that right now with the show.

[B]

Yeah. If we don't get this figured out at 20 minutes, we're in the episode. So the episode's not good for, you know, another 10 minutes we were out. You know what I mean?

[A]

No, yeah.

[B]

No, but I get what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah. With the three episodes a day thing is like, I, when I first started my show, I remember thinking three episodes a week was a crazy amount. And, and to be fair, it is. It is. Yeah. But now we're doing three episodes a day and it's like, this is, It's a lot of work to put in the effort that's required to outline shows, to actually make it high quality and do that type of volume with interviews, with solo shows, with co host shows. But what we, what I told myself from the very beginning of this is like, okay, we're gonna do three a day for basically three months. And at the end of three months, we'll have enough data to be able to make a decision of whether or not the additional effort was worth it or if we can scale back afterwards. But it's a like, like we said, there's a light at the end of the tunnel where it's like, at the end of the three months, I will know whether or not it's worth the continued effort for that volume of input or, or output in this case. And then if it is, then I'm okay with that continued effort. If it is not, then we can go back to the drawing board and try something else and it's easier once

[B]

you know it's working. Yeah, like once you know it works, then it's like, oh, that's easy to keep doing.

[A]

Then. Then again it's trade offs. Then it's like, okay, well, we're making X amount of additional sponsorship revenue because we're doing three day. And so now we can make a decision to say like, okay, well that, that. Is that additional sponsorship revenue worth all of the additional work that we're putting into it? If the answer is yes, then we'll keep doing it. If it's not, then we won't keep doing it. You know what I mean? Just because you started doing something doesn't mean that you have to do it forever, but it does mean that you should do it long enough to be able to decide whether or not it's a good decision moving forward.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I think. Yeah, it was. Literally, I actually watched, not watch, listen to probably this week, like, three or four hours of her hermosi videos. Because I was. Because I feel like I'm about to go into, like a sprint heavy couple months, and it's like. So I was like, just looking at, you know, wake up, spend this much time on this. This thing, you know, whatever, and, you know, waste three hours watching her mosey videos in the day. No. Just kidding. But no, I was just like, again, it was one of where, like, I just sat down to, like, regroup and go, this is how simple it is. This is what I need to do. Here's the way I need to do my schedule to make all the things that are me happening work over the next couple months. And. But even that, it's like, the thought of it sucks. Like, I. Like, I was telling Tara, I was like, my calendar is going to suck for, like, the next, like, at least, like, three immediate months are going to suck. This Saturday is going to suck. Like. Like, it's just gonna be busy, busy, busy. But I was like, I know that at the end of that the payoff of what is about to happen is so cool. Where it's like, it's all gonna make sense.

[A]

Yeah. To be fair, though, that, like, the acknowledgement of the fact that it might suck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To me always gives me power to control my perception to some degree. To me, to be like, you know what? It doesn't actually suck. Like, it just means it's gonna be a lot of work. But does that suck? You know what I mean? Because, like, there could. I was literally having with Jackie last night because, like, yesterday was a long day of filming and recording and, like, my. For what? My solo show days are just really draining on me because it's just me talking to a camera in an empty room. And I know especially because my kids are on spring break right now, so I know yesterday while I was home, like, just talking directly to a camera by myself, that, like, my family's at the pool all day enjoying. Enjoying the beautiful weather and being at the pool. And it was just like, man, this sucks. And I was just like, I used to have to. I used to have to go door to door in the heat of Central Valley or the Mojave Desert in SoCal to make a fraction of what I make now podcasting from my spare bedroom. Like, it's really not that bad. Just buckle down and make it happen.

[B]

And I say suck in terms of, like, not sleeping as much.

[A]

Yeah, I understand what you Mean, but that, but the acknowledgment of it I think is just like. Is just to be like, okay, that's going to happen. However, I know that this result is going to come at the end of it. And I know that every hour I put into this volume of work in the meantime is going to. The payoff is going to be so worth that.

[B]

It's the sprint. It's the sprint analogy. I used to love running, you know, I don't know if you can tell. I don't love running as much now. No, I, I've all. I've alternated for walking. So I have joints when I'm 80 years old. But no, I used to love running and I would always run and there was spots where there'd be like, fire hydrant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you mentally are like, I'm going to throw up right now. I feel cramp. I just hate myself. And then you go, if I can make it to the fire hydrant, I can stop. You know what I mean? And like setting those up. And it's amazing when you do that how many fire hydrants you can sprint to.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You thought you were going to die. The first one.

[A]

Yeah. So you set the goal and then you go like, I already feel like I want, I want to stop now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then you make it to the fire hydrant and it's like, oh, but there's a light pole right there. I could probably.

[B]

You know, it's so dumb that our brains are that primordial that we can do that. Yeah.

[A]

The pleasure seeking part of your brain.

[B]

But it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gamifying, you know, to light poles. Yeah. It's like, all right.

[A]

You almost have to trick your mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? To just continue doing it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's. That's one reason I really enjoyed when I was doing a lot of long distance running that I. That was one thing that I took away from that experience was how much you can actually, like how much you're actually physically capable of doing versus what you're telling yourself you're physically capable of doing. And they're wildly different things.

[B]

There's one thing I'm not physically capable of doing, a pull up anyway. Even if you offered me a grand, I couldn't do it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Seriously, I couldn't do it anyway. Yeah. I remember the, the most tired. Because I was thinking about the question for me and it's not really fair because the most tired I've ever. To realize the future America needs.

[A]

We understand what's needed from us to

[B]

face each threat head on.

[A]

We've earned our place in the fight

[B]

for our nation's future. We are Marines. We were made for this.

[A]

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[B]

Ever been? And I wasn't doing as much like as much crazy work, but working for a couple hours filming in India, when it's like 90% humidity and 110 degrees, you just like fall asleep anywhere. Yeah, but I was gonna say, really, I would say like the pivot from when I was working 9 to 5 and I was wanting to move out of it is this like 2019, 2020. Like especially the last, like the first, like two months of 2020 when I was working full time at my job that was 30 minutes from my house, I'm working full time at my job. And then would get home, we had a new like a, I think two year old, one and a half year old at the time. And then I was doing. Oh, I was doing sales calls on my lunch. And then I was doing my podcast. I was doing interviews and editing and releasing those myself for Preacher Boys or getting ready to release. And then I was doing work editing other people's shows to help cover extra stuff for me to be able to quit. And so like I literally remember one day my I woke up, it's like a Monday or Tuesday and I woke up and I had like 10 missed calls from my boss. And I look at the time, it was like 11:30. And so our daughter had been up all night. Tara's conked out, like drooling, Baby's asleep. I'm like waking up, like the hangover, like looking around and I'm like, how do I explain to my boss that I just overslept?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I slept through 10 phone calls

[A]

and an alarm three hours.

[B]

And he's just like, just don't do it again. And I was like, in my brain, I was like, I feel like I'm gonna do this tomorrow. I don't Know how I'm gonna do this.

[A]

No guarantees.

[B]

That was so. That was like, brutal.

[A]

Yeah. But that was the phase that was required in order to get to the goal of being able to stop working at that job.

[B]

And I'm just gonna say this now. I think this next phase is gonna be another evolution for Eric.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

I'm not quitting. I just. I'm about. I'm like, in conclusion. So, Travis, I'm gearing up to do it again. That's the cool thing is, like, once you. And once you've done it and it's worked out, it's like a lot easier to commit to the next sprint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I was at gosh, there was a part of me. It's like when I was working there, there was part of me that was like, is it going to be worth doing this? Yeah, it wasn't.

[A]

Well, that I think there's. That's why I think that there's also a lot of additional value for trying to have that experience as young as possible.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it sets the stage for what your career looks like.

[B]

It's hard to do that when you're 40.

[A]

I fell asleep think anywhere. When I was like, end of high school, college days, you know, was just like the amount of school that I was doing and then homework. And then like freshman year high school, I had. I was JV and varsity basketball. So I had four hours of basketball practice every day after school. So from 3, 3:30 after I got out of school, I had basketball practice from 3:30 to 7:30. And then after that, I would go home and do all of my homework and then go to bed. And it's like when you put in that type of work when you at that young of an age, I think it teaches you. Teaches you that the end result can be worth it. Because you see, you know, the actual tangible goal accomplished from doing that type of. Type of output.

[B]

You know, I will say growing up in a super whatever. Growing up in a fundy cult where they make you work a lot is great for learning a good work ethic.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I do. I do feel like my landscaping.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I was doing physical manual labor for eight hours where I'd like lay sod.

[B]

That's different.

[A]

Like rake manure. Like, I'd come home and just covered in dirt. And I remember a few times, like, I was just digging manure out of my ears and things like that, you know, and it's just. And then also have to work in homework and school and Activities and youth stuff.

[B]

Wheel this wheelbarrow of bricks across the property and put it where that other pile of bricks is. And you just do that for hours while guys would sit around drinking coffee. I'm in fourth grade. This isn't good. All right, well, let me ask you this last question here. I know we're. We're going over. Fun question. What's the weirdest setting in which you've fallen asleep from exhaustion?

[A]

Oh, dude, there's so many places I've fallen asleep. It was like a running joke, because I would always fall asleep wherever I was. I don't know about weird, but I don't know how many times I fell asleep in church services or chapel services. Easy stuff that I just got good at it. Because there's one time I remember in. I think it was high school. And it was. It was probably in the midst of those types. And you're also growing, you know? Like, my ninth grade was an exhausting year in the spring because of the hours of basketball practice I was putting in. And it's just straight cardio, you know what I mean? Like, we would do sprints at JV practice and then be exhausted after two hours and then. Then start warming up for varsity practice. I'm like, guys, I'm. I'm feeling pretty warm already. Like, I'm actually super exhausted. Then we do sprints for varsity, where I'm behind, so I got to try to keep up with all the upperclassmen, you know what I mean?

[B]

Like, because Travis didn't finish. You guys are all doing it all 30 seconds.

[A]

Yeah, we're. We didn't finish this suicide in 29.6 seconds.

[B]

I tried to get a run again. I've been taking my daughter to the basketball court, and I. And I said, do you want to do something? So practice. I'll pass you the ball. Practice dribbling. Practice shooting. And then I said, here, we're going to run. I don't think I called him suicides. I don't want to put that in the book anyway.

[A]

But I said, suicide.

[B]

But I said, here, let me show you what we used to do for basketball practice. And so I said, here, run up and touch that line. She did. And so run back. Run back and touch this line. Yeah. Okay, run back. And she's like, no, I feel like the third one. She's like, I don't like how this is going.

[A]

Yeah, I. I like the way she thinks.

[B]

But anyway. So you were tired from basketball?

[A]

Yeah, and I was. We were in a church service, and it Was, you know, they had the pews in the auditorium. It was before they put in the, like the. The chair.

[B]

Before they went liberal.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And put in the movie theater style seating. They had the. The pews with like the wooden piece on the back. And there was one time where I was. I fell asleep just like sitting up in the service. And then you're doing that, like, you know, like you nodding and like catching yourself and stuff. And then there's one time where I fell asleep hard enough where my head went backwards and smacked the pew. And like 30 people within a, you know, radius of us were like, what was that? I felt like I just. Like a gunshot went off. My head hurt and everybody's looking at me and I was like, I gotta come up with a better way to do this. So by the time I was in college, I was pretty proficient at just like, like, you know, elbow on the knee, hand and. Or head on my. On my arm. And then I would just knock out.

[B]

If you're on the balcony, forget about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Game over.

[A]

But then Jackie always talks about this one because she took a picture of me, of course, when I was like a junior in high school or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or a junior senior. And I fell asleep on the bus, which I would do all the time. And my mouth was just wide open. So my, My. I always had trouble breathing through my nose. I was always a mouth breather. So my daughter is the same way. So every time my daughter falls as sleep with her mouth wide open, she's like, oh, he's. Guess whose daughter that is. And I'm like, okay, that was a one picture that you have from like 18 years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's still following.

[B]

Gotta get some hostage tape.

[A]

But there. There were so many times, like, I don't even know, some scary times in college where I definitely shouldn't have been driving. Where, like, there was. Obviously I didn't. We didn't drink at all at that point. But driving under the influence of sleep is just as dangerous. You know, I mean, there was definitely. There was several times where I was like, I had to pull over on random streets, Lancaster or Palmdale, or drive or pull off an exit on the freeway and just sleep in my truck. So I don't know how many hours of sleep I got sleeping in my truck because it was too dangerous for me to be driving while I was that exhausted. So that. Those. A high volume of weird places. When you count all the times that I had to pull over in my truck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about you?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I remember driving back from like Fresno to like Southern California would be. I'd be sleepy sometimes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I. I would always just be eating constantly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is why I could never be a truck driver.

[A]

I always did sunflower seeds, so.

[B]

Oh, that's funny. My dad would always do pistachios.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we. We were. One day I was reading some article and it said pistachios have a natural form of melatonin. And they actually are great if you're. Because my dad.

[A]

My dad working against each other.

[B]

Yeah. So my dad had sleep apnea and then he was. So he would fall asleep anywhere, like quickly. And then he would be like popping pistachios. And I was like. All those family trips where we'd be staring at him, like making sure he's staying awake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's just like munching on nature's melatonin. It's so funny.

[A]

Nature's sleep.

[B]

Yeah. For me, I would just literally like. I'd get like a 20 piece chicken nuggets and I would just sit there like.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's what I like about the sunflower seeds because it like it gives you something to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you pop a bunch of sunflower seeds, you gotta crack them open like right.

[B]

That there's a process.

[A]

It was an activity, I feel like,

[B]

versus the thing, that energy drink or something.

[A]

But there's so many times where I would roll my window down and just stick my head out the window to

[B]

get the, the California air, the Santa Ana blasting your net your head off your neck.

[A]

Or I read this thing one time about how fighter pilots. I actually should ask Mace about this

[B]

or Dave, how many sunflower seeds would you eat on a flight? Mace.

[A]

Yeah. Where I read something where they would like stick their tongue on the roof of their mouth and then. And then not, not, not hold their breath. But basically try to get the blood to rush to their head by just like, like gritting their teeth kind of. And, and like sticking your tongue against the roof of your mouth and just like, like to the degree where if you did it too long you would pass out. But I would do that while I was driving just to like get blood rushing to my head so I could force myself to stay awake. I don't recommend any of this, by the way. If you're tired, sleep.

[B]

I just try it.

[A]

Don't try to, don't try to get the next leg of the drive in. And I did all of that while knowing that My dad literally almost killed himself doing this when he was in college. Actually close to where I grew up. There was like a, a light pole that he would point to because he fell asleep at the wheel and went off the road and smashed into this light pole. The whole side of the driver's side of the car was completely obliterated. He got pushed over to the passenger seat because like the one time where not wearing a seat belt was actually more beneficial for him, but his, his was shattered in like 18 different places. To this day, it's like his, if you look at his ankle, like it, it's completely still mangled from that accident. And I knew all of that and I was still tempting fate by, by driving like that. And I almost got into a wreck at the, like within a mile of that same stretch of road that he did when I was driving home one day. And that was like, that was a wake up call for me because I, I, that's when I, that's when I made the decision to just pull over to the side of the road and take a quick nap because I was, I was driving and it's like we lived on the outskirts of the desert town. So it's like a two lane road. There's just telephone poles lining the other side of the road. And I was, I was driving home. So I was obviously in the right lane on the two lane road. And I don't remember exactly how I got there, but I basically fell asleep, drifted across the other lane of traffic, the oncoming traffic. And then I woke up up in the dirt. So I was going like 60 miles an hour, you know, driving home. I woke up like in the dirt on the opposite side of the road. And I went in the dirt right after a telephone pole and then woke up and then swerved back onto the road before the next telephone pole. And I was like, I should probably just sleep next time. I don't need to push myself to see how quickly I can get home.

[B]

George Lucas almost died in a car accident.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

When he was, before he was graduating from. I feel like it was us before he graduated.

[A]

Never had Star Wars.

[B]

He, yeah, he was driving and he got hit by a car and his seatbelt snapped, so it threw him from the car. Anyway, he was wearing a seatbelt, snapped off and he like landed on the pavement and turned blue and was like vomiting blood.

[A]

Dang.

[B]

Had a bunch of broken bones. It was like three days before his graduation.

[A]

That's wild.

[B]

But he had a lot of time while he was sitting in the Hospital. Think about, know.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

Creative. Yeah.

[A]

Is that. Is that true? Like the real origin story?

[B]

I don't know if that's what he. I don't know if that's what he thought of, like, Star wars or something, but it's like it was just a lot of time to think about, like, filmmaking and all that sort of stuff. But that's a true story. And Mark Hamill was in a car accident before. Do you know this?

[A]

No.

[B]

So in start. In Star wars, the whole scene. We got to wrap this episode. The whole scene in Star Wars Episode 5 where he gets attacked by the. That yeti looking thing in the beginning. They wrote that scene into the movie because Mark Hamill, if you notice, has a. Has a very different face in five than four. And they did it to explain that his face was scarred, but it was really scarred from a major car accident. So if you watch A New Hope, he's got like this baby face.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you watch five, he has like a scarred kind of like aged face. That's all real scars because he was in such a bad.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I don't know. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, I have to say, don't fall asleep.

[A]

If you're going through this phase of physical. Physical exhaust exhaustion from the amount of work that you're putting in.

[B]

Don't drive.

[A]

Don't drive.

[B]

Don't drive, guys.

[A]

Yeah. Luckily now Uber exists.

[B]

Use code Travis and get a limo to carry you around. All right, Travis, go ahead and wrap us up. I gotta get some caffeine.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, goodbye. Anyway, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time.

[B]

Time. Peace.

[A]

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