CO-HOST | Make Money by Knowing When Debt Is a Tool—Not a Trap

Summary

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Episode Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: Make Money by Knowing When Debt Is a Tool—Not a Trap

Host: Travis Chappell
Co-host: Eric (Producer)
Date: July 4, 2026

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Overview

This episode of "Travis Makes Money" explores the complex role of debt in personal finance and investing, challenging the typical all-or-nothing perspective. Travis and Eric dig into methods of leveraging debt strategically, discuss the differing philosophies of prominent money gurus (like Dave Ramsey, Grant Cardone, and Robert Kiyosaki), and reflect on how actual high-net-worth individuals use debt as a financial tool. The episode also includes commentary on Grant Cardone’s practices, the real-world impact of financial influencers’ advice, and a candid look at the intersection of business, branding, and even personal beliefs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of Debt: Tool or Trap?

• Main Theme: Not all debt is bad; understanding when, where, and how to use debt is crucial to building real wealth in today’s world.
• Quote [03:58] (Travis): “How do you make the determination? … The last five real estate deals, we did $600 million, all cash. Why? Because debt’s terrible. [But also] if you study the great companies on the planet, there’s none of them that don’t have debt. Our country is in debt.”
• Travis and Eric discuss why even top investors like Grant Cardone sometimes use all cash while typically advocating "good debt."
• The risks of debt in changing economic climates are real—debt can destroy if mishandled during downturns, which is rarely discussed by gurus in their marketing.

2. Guru Philosophies & Real Life Practices

• Dave Ramsey’s Approach: All cash, all the time. No debt ever—for anyone.
• Grant Cardone & Robert Kiyosaki: Use of leverage (debt) is a hallmark—when it’s “good debt.” But Grant sometimes buys with cash based on conditions.
• Eric highlights the irony that “these gurus didn’t build their wealth just by following the advice they sell, but by building businesses around that advice.”
  • Quote [05:17] (Eric): “There's validity to the fact that they didn’t build their wealth by following their steps. They did it by selling people the idea of following whatever the step is.”

3. Nuance and Context in Financial Advice

• Nuance is vital: Blanket approaches don’t fit everyone—what works for Dave or Grant at their wealth levels doesn’t always translate for someone renting their first apartment.
• Travis references the absurdity of Dave Ramsey’s “no credit score” approach in real life:
  • Quote [13:08] (Travis): “What about the person who needs an apartment, who doesn’t want to buy the building, who isn’t worth, you know, however many billions? If they have no credit and they can’t get it, what do they do?”
• Observations on why individual success does NOT guarantee duplicability for listeners.

4. Market Cycles, Interest Rates, and Real Estate Risks

• Grant Cardone’s current cash strategy in a high-interest-rate environment is viewed positively.
• Real estate syndication warning: Many operators (syndicators) are struggling as debt becomes unserviceable when interest rates spike at refinancing—something Cardone has largely avoided by going cash when appropriate.
• Quote [15:05] (Travis): “I’m not about just getting into debt for the sake of getting into debt. I want good debt. So if the debt’s bad right now … I'm gonna just pay cash for this one.”

5. Cardone's Reputation as an Operator

• Despite his big personality, Grant Cardone is generally seen as a competent investor.
• Travis shares his parents’ positive experiences as Cardone Capital investors—no missed payments, returns exceeding expectations, and transparency over multiple years:
  • Quote [17:47] (Travis): “Cardone’s the only one … never missed a payment, has given them more than what they expected on their payments, and the properties have continued to accrue value over that time period.”

6. Controversy and Transparency: Grant Cardone & Scientology

• The co-hosts discuss Cardone's openness about Scientology, his promoting of Dianetics on his website, and the lack of pressure for employees to engage in the religion.
• Personal anecdote: Travis’s wife Jackie's experience interviewing at Cardone Capital, their transparency about Grant's religion, and clear separation between personal faith and business.
  • Quote [22:56] (Travis): “Just a quick aside, Grant’s a Scientologist. Do you have a problem with that? … It seems to me at least, that they keep those two worlds separate to some degree.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Financial “Gurus”
  • Eric: "You could follow all the advice Dave has and I'm not going to be the next Dave Ramsey just by doing that, you know, absolutely not. But yeah." [05:17]
• On Debt in Business:
  • Travis: "If you study the great companies on the planet, there’s none of them that don’t have debt. Our country is in debt.” [04:28]
• On Leveraged Real Estate:
  • Travis: “There’s been a lot of people … hit hard from the crazy difference in, in interest rates. ... Now the debt is unable to be serviced and they’re upside down on the property and they have to get rid of it.” [15:05]
• On Grant Cardone's Track Record:
  • Travis: “Cardone’s the only one of all of them never missed a payment, has given them more than what they expected.” [17:47]
• On Nuance:
  • Travis: “There’s clearly nuance to this.” [04:57]
• On Scientology and the Workplace:
  • Travis: “It seems to me at least, that they keep those two worlds separate to some degree.” [23:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:40] Debate: Dave Ramsey vs. Grant Cardone on All-Cash vs. Leveraged Deals
• [05:17] The "Guru Paradox": How financial influencers make (and monetize) advice
• [13:08] Real-world limitations of all-cash, no-credit approaches
• [15:05] Commercial real estate, debt cycles, and the case for paying cash
• [17:47] Cardone Capital payment reliability—real investor experiences
• [19:44] Grant Cardone and the SEC—regulatory scrutiny and skepticism
• [20:02] “Spicy Question”: Cardone, Scientology, and affiliate marketing
• [21:49] Job applicant experience: separating religion from business at Cardone Capital

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Overall Tone & Takeaway

The conversation blends humor, skepticism, and practical insight, staying conversational but sharp. The hosts stress that building wealth today rarely comes from penny-pinching alone—instead, mastering the smart, strategic use of debt (without over-leveraging) can be key. The financial “gurus” may offer compelling stories, but listeners must apply nuance, context, and critical thinking before copying anyone’s blueprint.

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Note:

• Skip the sections from [00:00–02:13], [07:47–08:32], and [17:48–18:16]—these are primarily advertisements or off-topic movie banter.
• The show closes with a reminder: “Money only solves your money problems, but it's easy to solve the rest of problems with money in the bank. So let's start there.”

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Transcript

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast with our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is here in studio. What's up?

[Eric]

You gotta make hay while the sun shines.

[Travis]

Is that.

[Eric]

Is that a thing?

[Travis]

Do you make hay?

[Eric]

Hold on.

[Travis]

I don't think you manufacture hay.

[Eric]

Make hay while the sun shines. Make hay while the sun shines is a popular English proverb. I don't remember this in the Bible, meaning to make the most of an opportunity while it lasts, acting promptly before circumstances change. So there you go.

[Travis]

Okay, it's acceptable.

[Eric]

So we got to make hay while the sun shines.

[Travis]

I'll allow it.

[Eric]

Yeah, we gotta make. Make hay.

[Travis]

Hey, so what version of hay are we making today?

[Eric]

Uh, that was a good. That's an old timey joke. Do you remember that one? Whereas what do. What do what do gay horses eat? Hey, that's a good joke. That's a good one. The other thing my, my youth pastor used to always do when we were on trips is we'd pass.

[Travis]

Well, we can't talk about that on this show.

[Eric]

Well, that wasn't fun.

[Travis]

Oh, this is a different thing that the youth passed.

[Eric]

You didn't do anything. I'm gonna restart. I'm gonna restart.

[Travis]

Anyway. Anyway, youth pastor, on trips we would.

[Eric]

Whenever we'd pass a truck that had like, the bales in California, he'd always go, hey, hey. And we'd all look and he'd be like, hey. And that one's pretty funny. The worst thing he ever did that was actual psychological torture was we were going to Mexico. Navajoa. Mexico.

[Travis]

It's deep.

[Eric]

It's deep in there. And

[Travis]

it's basically just New Mexico.

[Eric]

Yeah. No, it's, it's. No, it's Mexico. It's in Mexico. It's like, deep, deep, deep. You go past lots and lots and lots of different checkpoints on it so far in there. And him and my other guy that helped with the youth group, we would say, how much further? And they would say, two more hours. But they did that every time we asked. And so it was 12 hours later, and we're like, how far? And two more hours. I'm like, wait a minute. You're not being upfront with us.

[Travis]

Catch on. Only took you 12 hours.

[Eric]

Anyway, but. So there's a. I don't know why we're talking about any of this, but who knows? Anyway, so Grant Cardone, huh?

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

He was on Ryan Pineda's podcast.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

Do you know Ryan Pineda?

[Travis]

I do know Ryan Pineda.

[Eric]

Uh oh. While we were doing this, he just bought this house. That's how quick he is. He's quick on the draw buying these houses. That would be crazy. If you came outside and Ryan's like, I own this now.

[Travis]

That would be crazy.

[Eric]

Like, haven't you done enough?

[Travis]

Also, I don't remember talking to you about that.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah.

[Eric]

So Rampaneda, his hair is black now.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And I can't take it seriously anymore.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Anyway, what are we doing? Anyway, Grant Cardone was on his podcast, and this is what he said on the show. It's what you should and shouldn't pay cash for. And I want to get your agree or disagree on this. Decide what to pay cash for and what not to. Because I just had Dave Ramsey on.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And obviously he's all cash. Grant, like, punches him in the face. He's like, you idiot. Why would you do that? He's my rival cash for and what not to. Because I just had Dave Ramsey on.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And obviously he's all cash.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

I've all cash all the time.

[Eric]

Yeah. And I've heard you like. Obviously, we like debt and real estate, especially when you get good debt.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And then I hear you saying, well, we bought this one all cash.

[Eric]

We bought this all cash.

[Travis]

How do you make the determination?

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Carbon Beach House was bought all cash. Golden Beach House was bought all cash. The last five real estate deals, we did 600 million, all cash. Why? Because debt's terrible. David's like, I'm not doing debt no matter what. Okay. And look, Dave could be very right. Because if you hit a bad cycle of debt, dude, it hurts. It hurts you.

[Eric]

It could take everything down.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah, it could. But if you study the great companies on the planet, there's none of them that don't have debt. Our country's in debt.

[Travis]

Dave could be like, that was one thing when we did that tier list of the financial influencers and stuff. And there was 1 Dave Fan, 1, 1 Ramsey Head in the comments that was being like, the fact that he's not an S tier is crazy. It's ridiculous. And I was just like, yeah, just, you know, the only reason I didn't put it obviously I provided a ton more context and the episode itself because he was just commenting on post on Facebook, just the screenshot and. And I was like, yeah, I just can't get over like this one piece or whatever. And then he speaks to his results and was like, I mean he's doing pretty well and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, but that's a bad argument. That, that is, that's a non starter of a, of an, of an argument. Because following that same line of thinking, that would imply that anybody who's in the situation that Dave is in also operates the same way that he does and almost zero of them do. So there's clearly nuance to this.

[Eric]

And also it's hard to take any of the gurus like them or dislike them. There is validity to the fact that they didn't build that wealth by following their steps. They did it by selling people the idea of following whatever that step is. Grant Cardone is not just wealthy because of investing in multifamily, he's wealthy because he convinced a lot of people to send him a lot of money to put into multifamily. So like that's the same with Ramsey is like Ramsey didn't just do baby steps and then like, oh, now look at his huge place in Franklin. You know, it's like, yeah, there's a lot of layers to that that are like different. Like I could follow all the advice Dave has and I'm not going to be the next Dave Ramsey just by doing that, you know, Absolutely not. But yeah, so that's.

[Travis]

I do, I do. Like this is one of the reasons why I, I, my personal belief is that Cardone is a good real estate operator. Like I've heard a lot of people talk about him and especially specifically fund operators and syndicators. I think there's some of that, that's sort of a jealousy thing because they've been doing it for 25 years and then he started a fund and it was, he raised more money in a year, had in their entire 20 years of, of existence. You know, so I think some of it's jealousy. I think some of it's because of his grandiose brand.

[Eric]

Grantios brand.

[Travis]

His Grantios brand and the way that he portrays himself. But from everything I've seen, man, I get. Like I said before, I feel like if anybody in that space has a massive target on their back for the SEC or the ftc, it's going to be Grant Cardone and the fact that they have not taken everything that he has and he's been operating this fund for a decade now.

[Eric]

I mean, the SEC is known for being lenient. They don't really like, wait for sure hope people mess up. You know what's really funny? No, I just. Me. Anyway, so what's really funny is we were talking earlier, I was saying goldfish are my thing. I wore these pants yesterday.

[Travis]

You have goldfish in your pocket.

[Eric]

So I fell in my pocket. It's my goldfish bag from yesterday.

[Travis]

It's the remnants.

[Eric]

It's because I went to go see the backrooms yesterday and I was like, I don't want to eat popcorn and get. So I took a bag of Red 55.

[Travis]

Goldfish.

[Eric]

Goldfish. And I have the paraphernalia in mine. That's. Imagine getting patted if I got arrested and patted down. And they're like, what's this? Frank's Red Hot. They're like licking the bag because, you know, they're like, oh, man, I wish it was a donut, but I'll eat that, I guess. Just kidding. We love our officers.

[Travis]

Pigs, but we love them.

[Eric]

You said that anyway. All right, let's keep playing.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Debt free. No, not really. You live in a country. They can't. Can't pay their.

[Eric]

Oh, sorry. Backrooms wasn't good. Just so you know, I didn't really like it.

[Travis]

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[Travis]

Wasn't that.

[Eric]

Isn't that the one that John Gafford, 20 year old YouTuber made a lot of money. Good for him.

[Travis]

You didn't like it though?

[Eric]

Bless God. I did not like the way the fire alarm went off during the movie. I was seeing the backrooms. Well, no. Here's what happened? I was seeing the backrooms. I was. The movie. I was in the backrooms. That would be terrifying. I was watching the movie the Backrooms, which I thought was a solid 3 out of 5 movie. It wasn't terrible. It was just.

[Travis]

But you wouldn't see it again.

[Eric]

No. Maybe it was too hyped or maybe I just wasn't locked in. And what's funny is, before I saw the movie, I saw John Gafford post about how he saw it. It was terrible. I was like, what do you know about movies, bro? And then I kind of agreed with all of his points after I watched the mov. But midway through the movie, right at the part where I was actually getting super engaged. And this also affect. Maybe I will watch it again. I was getting really engaged. I was like, oh, it's actually. Stuff's all happening now. The screen goes black, the lights in the theater come on. And it goes.

[Travis]

I mean, that does definitely affect the movie watching experience.

[Eric]

So then I get up because I'm like, I'm thinking, active shooter. I got to get out of here immediately. I was like, I got to get out of here. And I'm just. I really did. I was like, something bad's happening because I don't smell smoke. And if they're doing a siren. And then I walked out of the theater. And then the guy's like, please go back in the theater and sit down or whatever. And I was like, definitely an active shooter. It's over. And then I went and sat down. They're like, they said, oh, it's just a minor incident. We'll resume the movie. But I could hear the movie.

[Travis]

It's just a quick shooting.

[Eric]

Yeah, I could hear the movie going. Cause they didn't stop it. They just turn off the screen. So then I knew what was happening, but I heard it first. And then they rewound it, but not all the way. It just ruined the whole thing. It was just that there.

[Travis]

It's a rewatch.

[Eric]

But why am I telling you this? I went to go see the backrooms. Oh. But I was laughing to myself because I was like, hey, this is the most interesting thing that's happened in the movie.

[Travis]

Oh, the fuck?

[Eric]

But that's not true. That's just being mean.

[Travis]

But like you said, it's difficult to get back into, especially.

[Eric]

No. And the lights were on the rest of the movie.

[Travis]

It's taking 45 minutes to set the mood for the next.

[Eric]

And then it was paused for 20 minutes and the house lights were on for the remainder of the movie. It was a bummer. It had some great visuals and stuff, but overall, I was ready to be like, John Gafford. Just he. He thinks. Cause he knows about one thing. He knows about everything. And then I. So I was literally waiting to get out of the movie to be like, hey, John just saw the movie and you're wrong. And then I was like, my golly, he's right. He's always right. That's why they call him the John Gafford. The guy who's always right. He's simply right. John Gafford. He's right. He's simply right. All right, so here's Grant card.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Anyway, Dave could be like, I'm debt free. No, not really. You live in a country. They can't pay their debts, bro. So they know. Debt free.

[Eric]

Yeah. I don't know if I track with what he's saying.

[Travis]

Silly point.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

That's Grant being Grant.

[Eric]

Like, I don't understand.

[Travis]

You're not. Response like, you're not going to go to prison.

[Eric]

You can leave the country. Yeah. I don't know.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Property taxes or debt or just not called that Printing money is an invisible debt. Yeah, I know. He thinks he's getting away from debt. Let's be honest. He built a career out of don't go in debt.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

If he wrote a book. Good debt.

[Eric]

I don't feel like Ryan's falling. He's like, still trying to piece together. He's like, wait, the country's.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And then every time it's just like, yeah.

[Travis]

He's like, wait, am I liable for the country's debt?

[Eric]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, technically, we are all liable for the country's debt.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah.

[Travis]

That is a good point that he's making, though, right there, about.

[Eric]

He built a business off of doing. Yeah.

[Travis]

My. My gut is that that's how all of all the personalities are at this point is just like. It's. They've bought that story, like, hook, line, and sinker, and it's gone very, very well for them.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So for any of them to open up a credit card would be like a. Oh, my gosh. Like, clutch your pearls.

[Eric]

And there's no reason for him to.

[Travis]

Exactly. At this point, he doesn't actually need it. But that's what I commented on one of his videos one time, because I like a lot of Ramsey stuff and obviously massive respect for him as an entrepreneur. And I'd love to get on the show at some point, but he said something about how he went to an apartment building across the street and, like, went to apply for apartment. They're like, well, you have no credit, so you can't give you an apartment. He's like, I. He's like, so I couldn't get an apartment. He's like, I could buy the building cash, but I can't get enough. Like, you won't rent me an apartment? And I was like, that's a funny story and a good anecdote and. And a lot of weird, messed up things in society that would make those rules enforceable to some degree. But also, like, what about the person who needs an apartment, who doesn't want

[Eric]

to buy the building, who isn't worth,

[Travis]

you know, however many billions he's worth? I'm assuming it's in the billions. But, like, they. They can't afford to buy the building and they need a place to rent. And if they have no credit and they can't get it, like, what do they. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's like, that's cool. But also, I'm not sure that applies to everybody in the same scenario.

[Eric]

Yeah. Take everything down.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah, it could. But if you study the great companies on the planet, there's none of them that don't have debt. Our country's in debt. Dave could be like, I'm debt free. N. Not really. You live in a country that can't pay for.

[Eric]

Ryan doesn't know. He literally goes, huh, we gotta watch that. Hold on. We gotta watch that again. We gotta watch this.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Really? You live in a country. The case.

[Eric]

There's so many things. Let's. We're gonna 0.5 that real quick. There's. Oh, wait, that's not the right thing. We're gonna do this. There's a moment there where he's like, I don't. I don't know. There's a lot happening in that. He's doing the calculating, like. And then the rest of the interview is just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Travis]

I think I agree with you.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

Yeah, they can't pay their debts, bro. So they know. Debt free. Yeah. Property taxes or debt. They're just not called that. Printing money is an invisible debt. Yeah, I know. He thinks he's getting away from debt. Let's be honest. He built a career out of don't go in debt.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Guest (possibly Dave or another financial expert)]

If he wrote a book Good debt, he'd probably sell a bunch of books too. And the analogy I always make for Dave is that if the company that made Dave famous didn't have debt, we wouldn't know Dave.

[Travis]

Hmm. I mean, sure, but I Don't know why that's relevant. I have a girlfriend right now. Just a brand new clip to bring up.

[Eric]

This is a great clip, though, and I'm tempted to play it out. I was just tempted to just let YouTube take us where we wanted to go. But anyway, what's your take on this Grant Cardone thing?

[Travis]

Well, I like that. I like that he changes his buying strategy for Cardone Capital. Because like you said, he's like, I'm about. I'm not about just getting into debt for the sake of getting into debt. I want good debt. So if the debt's bad right now, which it is for a lot of commercial real estate and has been for quite some time, and there's been a lot of people who are syndicators and fund managers who've been hit hard from the crazy difference in, in interest rates. Because what happens on a lot of these commercial buildings is they lock it up for like a five year short term thing. They go in and renovate a bunch of the units or whatever, and they get extra money for that. And they have their cap raise at the very beginning and they go to refi in five years. And there was an option to refi, but then the. The options not contractually enforceable from the bank's perspective. So they can just basically be like, yeah, sure, we will give you an option to finance the property long term with us now, but the rate is now close to double what it was for the past five years. Now the debt is unable to be serviced and they're upside down on the property and they have to get rid of it. So I like the. I like that he brought up the point that it's like, yeah, I like good debt, but if the debt is bad, then I'm not gonna just get into it for the sake of securing another property. I'm gonna just pay cash for this one.

[Eric]

It seems to me like Kiyosaki and Ramsey are kind of like the two polar opposites, where it's like Ramsay's like, no debt ever. Kiyosaki's like, I have so much debt. It's their problem, you know, like that whole thing. Cardone seems to be kind of like the perfect middle ground of the two,

[Travis]

which is strange to say because, you

[Eric]

know, he's just a real middle ground type of guy. You know, there's all these extremes and then Grant's just chilling the average man.

[Travis]

Yeah, I do find that to be true in his practice. In terms of Cardone Capital specifically. I don't know about the rest of his businesses, how he operates, all those. But it seems to me that they do pretty good work over there. And like I said, I've said a couple of times, like my parents put money in Cardone Capital. They put money in two or three other different real estate funds and syndications when they, when they got rid of their single family homes. And Cardone's the only one of all of them never missed a payment, has given them more than what they expected on their payments and the properties have Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 50% off custom window treatments during the 4th of July mega [e-mail] from outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help and professional measure and install services or DIY with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 50% off site wide plus huge savings on door busters right now during the 4th of July mega [e-mail] you want to get your backyard

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[Travis]

style, every home continued to accrue value over that time period. And they put money in like seven, eight years ago. So it's not like it was a quick flash in the pan. It doesn't seem to be Ponzi money, you know, like that that's sort of the argument that a lot of people make is that he's just covering payment. He's covering distributions with additional cash, which is sort of what a Ponzi scheme is. And it doesn't you're, you're like the

[Eric]

people that scare movie trailer.

[Travis]

But I feel like that requires that one's not as straightforward. But yeah, the, it's, my point is like it's, it seems to be that he is a good real estate operator because that's what he did in his spare time as a hobby when he like, like you said, he didn't make his money from investing in real estate, he built his wealth from investing in real estate. But it came from cash flowing businesses. And so he bought his first building in his 30s when he saved up all of his money from selling cars.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

But he. It took him like two years of. Of flying to properties, walking properties, learning about them, and then he finally found a deal that he wanted to do, and he did it all himself with his own cash that he saved up. It's like he's been. He's been frugally investing in multifamily real estate for decades on his own. And then if like a friend or a family member has some money, they'll put some in, you know, and then he was like, why don't we scale this as the next thing? Because it's treated me very well, you know, So I think he's a sound operator. And maybe, you know, I might have to retract this statement in five years when the FTC comes up with something. But that's my point, is like somebody like him, you know, that they are sniffing.

[Eric]

They're like drooling for something to go wrong, Even like a misfiled thing, you know? Right. Can I ask you something super spicy about Grant Cardone?

[Travis]

Okay. All right, let's do it.

[Eric]

Because I know you like Grant Cardone, but I'm just curious. So I noticed recently he's shared more Scientology stuff.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And he even has a link on his website where he links and then you can order the book through him. Do you think he gets a kickback on that?

[Travis]

I have to imagine he does.

[Eric]

Or do you think it's love of the game?

[Travis]

I have to imagine he does. I don't know much about the inner workings of Scientology. That, to me is my only real red flag with him is the Scientology thing, because it's just, just. I mean, based on our background, I just don't like anything that's structured like that. And I know there's a. Yeah. I've not done a lot of research into Scientology, to be clear.

[Eric]

Don't. I don't know, Travis, don't.

[Travis]

So I don't know.

[Eric]

Don't read the books.

[Travis]

But I have to assume that he's getting kickbacks on whatever, like some sort of.

[Eric]

Because I was surprised. I was like, straight up on, like, his website.

[Advertiser/Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Like, hey, get your copy of Dianetics.

[Travis]

At least in my mind, it has to work similarly to some sort of an MLM structure where it's like if you recruit a certain number of people who come in and they start giving you.

[Eric]

I know it doesn't work like that for the low tier people. I know that yeah. But I have to imagine for like, he's got to be one of their biggest people.

[Travis]

I would have to imagine.

[Eric]

I mean, he's a celebrity person, those people.

[Travis]

And he has more money than most celebrities.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You know, even the celebrities that. Maybe not Tom Cruise type celebrities, but even regular celebrities.

[Eric]

I was just curious.

[Travis]

More money than.

[Eric]

If that was like a. If you thought he was like a

[Travis]

paid, I would assume he gets paid.

[Eric]

But it could also be just love of the game too, because they do love it.

[Travis]

They do. Yeah.

[Eric]

And everyone in Scientology seems to love it.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

That's one thing about Scientology I've never, I've never heard from. From a Scientologist who had a mediocre experience. It's always, I love it and it's the best.

[Travis]

Right, right. I will say that the, the like public speaking and stuff like that that their daughters have done has been like, they seem to be really, you know, clean cut, professional young women who have a good head on their shoulders and they've done a good job with them. So I don't know. I, like I said Scientology at large is just sort of like a, like, you know. Yeah, no touchy for me.

[Eric]

No, that's the Catholic.

[Travis]

But I will, but I will say Jackie got a job interview with a while back and this was like right when we moved to Vegas and I had just had Grant on the show and I had Jared on the show and a couple other people. And so I saw that they were hiring for an executive assistant. So Jackie fills out an application for. Because that's what she had done. And she was also had just gotten certified to be a private jet flight attendant and was doing that like kind of on the side. So I texted Jared and was like, hey, she just submitted this application. Can you like bump it up and take. Take a peek at it? So then like a week later, we're flying to Miami for an in person interview and she'd gone through a couple rounds and so she ended up getting the job offer to be their executive assistant. But like the day before she got the offer, the COO reached out and was like, hey, everything was looking good. You know, we were optimistic about, you know, what we're going to do with you. But also just to quick aside, Grant's a Scientologist. Do you have a problem with that? And Jackie was just like, well, I don't have a problem with people doing whatever they want in terms of their religion, as long as it's not something that's like forced on me as an employee. Like, I'M not going to do that, and I don't want to be a part of that at all. And then the day after she got the job offer, so it didn't seem to be something that was like, like, ooh, you're resistant to our religion, so we're not going to hire you.

[Eric]

You know, it's like, just, is it going to be a problem for you that I am?

[Travis]

Exactly. Because they were like. Well, we've had some. Some issues with employees of employees that didn't like that their son or daughter

[Eric]

or wife worked for a Scientologist for

[Travis]

somebody who was a Scientologist. So I just wanted to, like, run it by you. So it seems to me at least, that they keep those two worlds separate to some degree.

[Eric]

Yeah. That's why I was curious, though, because it seemed like it was the first time I saw him really promote it. I've heard him like here and there talk about it. But anyway, just curious. Well, I'm gonna go look into Scientology more and I encourage everyone listening to do the same. There's a link in the show notes of this episode, but yeah, go ahead and close this out.

[Travis]

That's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easy to solve the rest of problems with money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

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