CO-HOST | Make Money by Marketing Better, Not Begging for Attention

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: Make Money by Marketing Better, Not Begging for Attention

Host: Travis Chappell
Date: July 27, 2026
Co-hosts: Eric (producer), Brandon Burkmeyer (guest co-host, host of Brands on Brands podcast)

Overview:

This episode tackles the controversial topic of “pity marketing,” where creators and entrepreneurs attempt to generate sales and attention by highlighting their failures or lack of support in an attempt to elicit sympathy from their audience. Travis and his co-hosts break down the pros, cons, and ethics of this approach, contrast it with authentic and effective marketing strategies, and provide actionable insights for anyone looking to sell more without sacrificing their brand’s long-term credibility. Brandon Burkmeyer brings extra depth as a branding expert.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Pity Marketing? [02:25–03:28]

• Definition: Pity marketing is described as a strategy where creators, entrepreneurs, or authors publicize failures—like empty book signings or poor sales—in hopes that sympathy will convert to support.
• Examples discussed:
  • Authors’ spouses posting about empty book signings
  • Viral videos of children or creators being “unsupported”
  • Creators sharing their struggles or negative reviews without a positive takeaway

Quote [03:28] – Brandon Burkmeyer:

“If you’re begging people to get on board because it didn’t work the first time... maybe has some effectiveness, but are you really proud of that?”

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2. Why Does Pity Marketing Happen? [03:40–08:44]

• Bandwagon Effect: Brandon compares it to “greenwashing”—initially authentic, but quickly becomes formulaic when everyone starts doing it.
• Authenticity Concerns: Forced or inauthentic pity marketing is quickly detected and undermines brand credibility.
• Reflections: All agree that genuine connections and improved products matter more than soliciting sympathy.

Travis [04:28]:

“It doesn’t fix the problem... The reason nobody did this is probably because it just wasn’t that good. Maybe it’s time to go back to the drawing board and improve.”

• Personal Anecdotes:
  • Both Travis and Brandon admit to trying every angle—including pity—back during sales days or door-to-door, but neither found lasting success in pity marketing.
  • Effective launches involved building on existing community gatherings and value-driven events, not sob stories.

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3. The Problem with Pity Marketing – Short-Term Gains, Long-Term Losses [10:39–14:48]

• Viral Stories:
  • Eric shares viral “nobody showed up” stories (authors, children’s birthday parties) and debates their authenticity.
  • While these tactics can garner momentary attention, Travis and Brandon raise concerns:
    • Is this how you want your brand remembered?
    • Are people actually engaging with your work, or only the drama?

Eric [12:41]:

“If your book’s about performance, let’s see your performance at Barnes and Noble, bro.”

• Brandon’s Branding Insight:
  • Building a reputation should be about differentiation and what you offer, not soliciting pity.

Brandon [13:37]:

“Who am I competing against? Why would someone select me? [...] What is my differentiator?”

• Market Perception:
  • Relying on sympathy positions you as less competent and undermines your authority.

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4. Differentiation Through Value, Not Victimhood [14:48–17:28]

• Speaker & Creator Branding:
  • Brandon discusses his strategy of building YouTube subscribers as a differentiator for public speaking gigs—pointing out that being “certified” or simply experienced doesn’t cut it in a crowded market.
  • For podcast guesting, Travis notes that hosts are inundated with applicants; having a real audience or unique platform is the best way to stand out.

Travis [15:01]:

“If you’re good, you’re good. It doesn’t matter if some third-party association said you’re good.”

---

5. Actionable Strategies: Authentic Marketing that Works [21:21–26:33]

• Sharing Struggles with Purpose:
  • Admitting to failures is fine if you share the lessons learned and demonstrate how you improved next time.
  • Build anticipation through storytelling rooted in growth, not just struggle.

Travis [21:21]:

“If you’re going to share the story... here’s the lesson I learned, here’s my takeaway... then it feels different.”

• Proactive Event Marketing:
  • Don’t default to “If you build it, they will come.”
  • Utilize local community connections, targeted outreach, and direct pitching to drive attendance and sales.
  • Focus on leading with value and drama, not self-pity.

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6. Advanced Tactics: Out-Marketing the Competition [25:22–27:41]

• Lead with Drama, Not Names or Topics:
  • Brandon brings research from top podcasts: market your show or product by highlighting dramatic, viral story segments in ads—before the episode airs (as seen with “Diary of a CEO”).
    • A/B test intro clips as ads to determine which generates more interest for the main content.
  • This approach accelerates engagement and curiosity, using emotional hooks ethically instead of pitiful appeals.

Brandon [25:22]:

“Now it’s lead with the drama in the story instead of the topic... The crazy [ad clip] ends up being the intro to the long-form YouTube.”

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7. Final Thoughts & Episode Takeaways [27:47–28:33]

• Consensus: Stay away from pity marketing for long-term brand success.
• Brand Sustainability: Focus on strategic storytelling, authentic community-building, and addressing real customer needs.
• The team signs off with a playful call to action, jokingly using the same “pity” tropes they critiqued (meta!).

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Notable Quotes

• Brandon [03:57]: “I hate seeing them. I don’t do it. Probably because no one’s ever done it [for me].”
• Travis [04:28]: “It doesn’t solve the problem… Maybe get better friends that’ll support your dreams.”
• Eric [06:08]: “I even went to this stage of sometimes people leave a bad review for your show. And like, I share those, but it’s always in a tongue-in-cheek way... To go full-bore into the, like, ‘Please say something good about me’...”
• Travis [21:55]: “If you build it and then market the shit out of it, then people will come.”
• Brandon [25:22]: “Lead with the drama in the story instead of the topic.”

---

Key Timestamps for Segments

• [02:25]: Definition and examples of pity marketing
• [04:28]: Why pity marketing fails as a long-term strategy
• [10:39]: Viral pity marketing in the wild—examples and discussion
• [13:37]: Building reputation through value-driven branding
• [15:01]: Differentiation in speaking and podcasting
• [21:21]: How to share failure stories with a positive spin
• [25:22]: Using dramatic storytelling in advanced marketing tactics
• [27:47]: Concluding thoughts: Avoid pity marketing, build authentic brands

---

Memorable Moments

• The team jokes about forming a “boy band” podcast and teasing each other’s social media thirst traps. [02:09–05:10]
• Deep dives into book signing “failure” videos, questioning authenticity and effectiveness. [10:39–12:58]
• Brandon drops a “bomb” tip about pre-releasing dramatic podcast clips as Facebook ads to test audience response—“lead with the drama.” [25:22–26:33]
• Playful meta-outro where Eric and Brandon ironically use pity tropes to close the show. [28:03–28:33]

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Tone & Language

Conversational, candid, and occasionally self-deprecating. The episode balances humor with sharp, actionable advice, creating an approachable but authoritative environment.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In:

This episode gives you a realistic look at what not to do when marketing or launching your business—and what to do instead. The hosts’ real-life experiences, research-backed tips, and naturally funny banter make it both educational and enjoyable. Whether you’re building a personal brand, selling a book, or growing a side hustle, their message is clear: Ditch the desperation, lead with value and drama, and watch your impact (and income) grow.

Transcript

[Travis]

I was recently on whatnot the other day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got to go see if this thing is real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just having fun in the chat. They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like, you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece too, where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to see your face as the seller. Not just a logo or a brand, anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers across whatnot. The number of sellers making over $1 million a year has now doubled. The consistency pays off for those sellers. It's not just side hustle, it's a real path to building something that lasts. Because whatnot buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, they're not just browsing around, they're engaged, they're buying, they're coming back. You go live, show off your products in real time and turn what you love into real income. So search whatnot whnot in the app store, download it today and get started selling right away.

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's a mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio as usual for these episodes, but we also have a guest of honor, surprise guest co host here for a couple of episodes because he's in town for a conference or two. His name is Brandon Burkmeyer and he has the podcast brands on brands and talks a lot about marketing and online branding and a lot of the similar stuff that we talk about here. So I figured you're in town, why not stop by? So what's up?

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Hey. Hey, thanks for having me. This is fun. I get to hang out with the boys.

[Travis]

Yeah, on the mics.

[Eric]

That's what we call ourselves, boys. On the mics on the boys.

[Travis]

That's how. That's how Eric likes to refer to us.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

It's the new boy band, I think.

[Travis]

Yeah. Yeah. Is starting a podcast. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, Eric, you got a couple. Couple topics for us to dive into.

[Eric]

I wrote down one sentence last minute.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Okay.

[Eric]

Because so my outline is.

[Travis]

That's how I like our prep to be.

[Eric]

My outline is six words. Okay, what's your take on pity marketing?

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

And I think I've whined about this to you before, right?

[Travis]

We have definitely talked about it. But I explain exactly what you mean by that and give us an example or something.

[Eric]

And I thought about it because you were coming in and this is like a phenomenon that I keep telling my wife about. As I see. And especially authors do this, where they'll go, they'll post. Their significant other will post a video of them at a book signing. It's empty. And they'll be like, he set up for hours. He was so excited for his book signing and nobody came. Or someone will post and be like, this kid made this. Especially in the age of AI people generate the kid that's crying because he made this stuff thing that you can order online. And they're like, he put all this effort into it. Nobody bought one. Or the author's like, I put so much time into this book and zero Amazon sales today. And I call it pity marketing. It's a registered trademark. That's mine. Yeah, but what's your guys take on it? You're the branding guy. Do you like pity marketing as a strategy?

[Travis]

Does it work?

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah. Well, put it this way. How much do you love it when your spouse posts on your birthday about how wonderful of a husband and father you are? Like one of those rants I've never.

[Eric]

Wait, do people do that?

[Travis]

Do wives love their husbands?

[Eric]

Hold on, I need to add that into her to do list.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

My take is like, it feels forced, right? Like it's. I hate seeing them. I don't do it. Probably because no one's ever done it before.

[Eric]

I was going to say it sounds like somebody that's never had a postwritten button.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I'm wondering. Yeah, no. And it's unlike the greenwashing thing back in the day. Like when the first person did it, it was authentic because they were just like, hey, by the way, we're also giving away like a shoe for every

[Travis]

shoe you buy or whatever.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And then everyone started doing it. So, yeah, the pity marketing thing. No, I. If you're begging people to get on board because it didn't work the first Time. That's it. Maybe has some effectiveness, but you'd be proud of that.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

It's also just a salve.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah.

[Travis]

It doesn't. It doesn't fix the problem of. Probably the reason that nobody did this is because it just wasn't that good. Yeah. And maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board and improve the writing or improve the product or, you know, take the feedback that you got as like, oh, well, I guess the market wasn't ready for this or they didn't accept this, so now we got to go back to the drawing board rather than just kind of pointing the finger and being like, I can't believe nobody supported my dreams. You know, also maybe get better friends. That'll support your dreams.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

As my kids would say, it gives. Thirsty. Yeah. As Travis takes a drink.

[Eric]

Speaking of thirsty, you're dropping comments on my gym photo the other day.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah.

[Eric]

Very. You were very thirsty.

[Travis]

Very, very. I mean, it was thirst trappy.

[Eric]

Yeah. Did you see that?

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Was it your first time?

[Travis]

It was time. First time in the gym.

[Eric]

Oh, you know what? Let's get on there. I don't want to talk about the same way. No.

[Travis]

He's on a weight loss journey and he posted his first shirtless selfie the other day.

[Eric]

Yeah, you should see it. You should check it out right now. Live reaction.

[Travis]

He's already seen it. He's just plain dumb.

[Eric]

Yeah. Anyway, no, I always noticed it with the book signing trend where. Where I think even I'm so cynical that people are doing it before people show up and just using it as a strategy. But like you were saying, it's like, do you feel good about that? Like, my thing is always I want to look the best as possible all the time, even if somebody is like. Cause I even went to this stage of sometimes people leave a bad review for your show. And, like, I share those, but it's always in a tongue in cheek way of, like, oh, critics are raving, like, to go full bore into the, like,

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

you know, I think I'm gonna quit podcasting.

[Eric]

I don't know if it's only because people that support that I'm able to

[Travis]

push through this, like, please say something good about me.

[Eric]

But all that said, have either of you ever done any pity. Pity marketing?

[Travis]

No. Well, I. I will say I tried a lot of stuff on door when I was on. When I was doing.

[Eric]

I. Please, sir, I haven't made a sale all day, and it's quite hot.

[Travis]

Oh, I tried it. I tried. I mean, I tried everything.

[Eric]

Everything. Everything to close the deal. Everything. Wow.

[Travis]

But, yeah, I definitely.

[Eric]

You never told me how you closed all those deals.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Well, he shows up shirtless.

[Eric]

It's busy. That's not enough.

[Travis]

That's just the opener. Yeah. But, yeah, I definitely tried it door to door.

[Eric]

Have you ever done it? I feel you look very guilty is why I asked.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah. I'm trying to imagine, like, a moment and, like, if. I wish I had a good story about that. I don't know if I've done that. I know when I. You said there was a book launch one. I don't know which one that is that you're talking about.

[Eric]

There's a ton. I mean, I saw this for a while. I felt like a bunch. Did you see these? I feel like there was a bunch where it would be like, they'd show, like, their spouse or whoever or their assistant would film it, and they'd be sitting there with, like, a stack of books and be like, nobody showed up. And then I saw, like, three or four of those, and I was like, this feels like this is a weird trend. Then again, though, that probably is most book signings. So maybe they weren't staging.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah. I think the whole, like, show up to a bookstore to sign my books. Like, I'm like, whoever does that. I don't understand that.

[Travis]

You gotta be, like, a really popular author.

Yeah.

To show up to a physical bookstore.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

But when I. So I had a book signing.

[Ad Voice]

Right.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And I didn't do that, but I was definitely worried that this was not gonna be something people wanted.

[Travis]

Yeah. So.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

But instead, like, we have a local creators meetup in Raleigh every month. And I'm a member, and I have spoken there, here or there. And I said, hey, for one of our monthly meetings, can we do a hot seat where we talk about the book?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And the members are already coming, so that felt more organic. And then I got good footage of people being there and people buying the book. So maybe I pitied them into buying it because they're already there.

[Travis]

Well, but. No, but that's. But that's book sales, though. Like, that is using what you. Using the assets at your disposal to have a result that you want to see, you know, because that's what I did with the meet your hero book was, like, the only reason anybody showed up to that is because we did it at my live event and then made it like a networking evening, and it was like a whole thing. So there was a bunch of people there for the signing, but they weren't. It wasn't. Like a pop up event where I was like, come buy my book. It was like everybody's already here in town. We're doing a VIP experience thing later and we're going to, you know, sign some books and give them out and stuff.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

We already spent hundreds of bucks to be there, so why not 10 more?

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis]

The cost of a cigar or something.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah, still on my toilet.

[Eric]

I was there for you, just so you know.

[Travis]

What?

[Eric]

I was just there for you.

[Travis]

No, you weren't. You were there but you got paid.

[Eric]

Yeah, that helped. But that was you.

[Travis]

What?

[Eric]

That paid me.

[Travis]

Oh, that's true.

[Eric]

So I was there for you and you.

[Travis]

Full circle.

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[Eric]

so good, so good, so good.

[Ad Voice]

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[Eric]

No, actually I just found a video. This is an example of what I was talking about. So you can see it because you haven't seen this. People doing this?

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I don't think so.

[Eric]

Do you watch a lot of branding content?

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I don't watch anything. With another Brandon in it.

[Eric]

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

[Ad Voice]

First time author became a bestseller after no one showed up to his books.

[Eric]

And this is why I think it became a thing, because I think that stories like this. And you know what? The first version of this I ever saw. And this is way worse than a, like, a person doing this with their brand. The first time I ever saw someone do a video like this was a kid's birthday party. And a mom filmed that. Nobody showed up. Which, to put that in your kid's digital footprint. Like, imagine going to college. Like, oh, you're the kid who, like, nobody in their class wanted to be around, which I have suspicions about that kid. If that's the case, no kids wanted to come. But she filmed it with all the decorations and the kids, like, crying at the table. Weird thing to post. But then it, like, was a big thing where, like, celebrities were like, I sent them this thing and I did this. And then I started seeing it with, like, actual brands, which feels more forgivable, but it's. It's stuff like this.

[Ad Voice]

First time author became a bestseller after no one showed up to his book signing. And a stranger's video went viral.

[Travis]

Changing it.

[Eric]

See, it says.

[Travis]

What does it say?

[Eric]

It's a sweet man's sitting at Barnes and Noble and this lady's not helping. She's just. She's just letting him sit there with a stack of books, filming him to shame him with a stack of his books that he wrote. And my heart is breaking every time someone passes him. I don't. I'm so cynical.

[Travis]

Such a weird thing.

[Eric]

I'm just so cynical. I don't. I don't believe that she's not an inside.

[Travis]

Yeah, yeah.

Plant. But I don't know, because that's a wild thing.

[Ad Voice]

That video was posted by this mother and daughter. And thanks to the power social media,

[Eric]

I don't think the girl had anything to do with it.

[Ad Voice]

Caught the eyes of millions of people.

[Travis]

It's his wife and kid now.

[Ad Voice]

The book is called Purposeful Performance. And the author named Jonathan Stanley has responded to all the buzz surrounding his book.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I've received messages from all over the

[Eric]

world, and I can't tell you how

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

much this means to me.

[Eric]

I wrote this book because I wanted to. Oh, that's enough from you. But I. I. More free publicity. Do you see how effective this was for him? But also, if your book's about performance, let's see your performance at the Barnes and Noble Brow.

[Travis]

That's kind of the point.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

You know what?

[Eric]

I'm saying.

[Travis]

And that's what you're saying about, like, are you going to feel good about that? You know what I mean? Is it how you want to have sold your book? And if, again, if nobody showed up, then if you sold a bunch of books but nobody's reading it and how successful was the book anyway? I don't know. It just seems like a strange way

[Eric]

to promote you, kind of. I was listening to a talk from you the other day.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Okay.

[Eric]

Truly, I was. You look at me like I'm lying. I really was.

[Travis]

Like, a podcast.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

No. I was like, what's the point?

[Eric]

I was listening to you talk, and you were saying about you were wanting to do more speaking. That was a big part of your business. And so you focused in on, like, your YouTube subscribers. And it was like, that's the differentiator that puts me out there. And it's like, to be known for that thing and, like, this positive growth versus being known. Like, it would be weird if you, as a branding guy was like, I don't have any YouTube subs. You know what I mean? Or it'd be weird to be like, oh, I don't really.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Just feel bad for me.

[Eric]

Yeah. Like, it's how you're positioning yourself in the business realm, you know?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I want. Who am I competing against? And what. Why would someone select me? That's like, what's going to make me be chosen? Book sales is a whole different crazy animal. But just in general, speaking is a people business, so someone's got to choose you out of the. Whatever, hundreds of people that are applying. And so what I'm thinking is, what do I do different? Other than my unique, special snowflake message is different than everyone else's? What is my differentiator? And I look at. So I look at the competition, and then I figure it out. Like, what is no one doing that I maybe could do? And one of the things was YouTube. A lot of speakers, like, hot take are old.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And so I'm competing against people who are 50, 60, 70 years old. Funny enough, I just saw a post today from the National Speakers association talking about, like, more people, like, need to only be hiring certified speaking professionals. Right. And, like, the head of the association was talking about this, and I'm like, that's fine. Except to get that, you have to have proven five years of speaking, 250 speaking engagements, and there's a format which means you have to speak every week for five years, basically.

[Eric]

Wait, so you're telling me the people that sell certifications for Speakers were saying you should only hire certified speakers are requiring you.

[Travis]

Yeah, right.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And the point is like, what is the gain of all this? That we don't hire people who are good but are.

[Travis]

Exactly.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

There's no training offer. Just prove that you already did the work forever.

[Travis]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that is a factor, right? Like if you do 250 talks, odds are you're probably going to be better. But that's not the only factor. You know, if you're good, you're good. It doesn't matter if some third party association said you're good. And to your point, the this, this happens all the time in podcast guesting too. And like people, you know, the number one email I get my inbox. I'm sure the same way both of you is, can we be a guest on your show? Can we get this person on your show? And they always focus on talking points. And this is a different take on financial education. Whatever. It's like, yeah, you and the other hundred people that are pitching me right now. But the core differentiat that we look at is what you're talking about is like, what are you doing on these other platforms? Do you have any sort of loyal audience or following? Like, of course we want to see is, are you knowledgeable about this topic? Are you good at communicating this truth? Do you have any hot takes that are interesting? Of course that's part of it. But that feels more like the barrier to entry to me. It's like almost everybody can check that box. So what other box are you going to check here that is going to put you into the lineup versus any of the other people that do something very similar to what you do. I think you're spot on by going to the YouTube route because that's going to be a differentiator because not enough people are focused on that. And especially, especially because event hosts want to put butts in seats. That is their core need. You know, the, the gap that exists in their mind is how do we get more people to show up to this event? So if you have an actual audience of people who want to come hear you talk, then you're just, bottom line, are more likely to get booked for the talk. That's how people get paid a lot of money to speak, is that the event host thinks that they're not just going to add value from the perspective of being on stage and what they're going to say, they're going to add value because if they announce that they're speaking, more people are going to buy tickets. So you have to, you have to reframe it and think about what is it, what's in it for them.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I think creators and I think creators could be the new kind of regime of speakers. But most aren't interested. Like they're, they're either too young or they're just, it's not interesting to them because they haven't, they haven't decided that that's a way to make money. They're like, I'm just going to be monetized on YouTube. So speaking isn't even interesting to them. They might have the goods and the following, but they're not thinking stages. They're like, that's a lot of work.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

When I could just turn my camera on.

[Travis]

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[Travis]

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[Brandon Burkmeyer]

You're.

[Travis]

You're trying to do some more speaking stuff too, right?

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. I was just. I was literally saying right before I came in, I was like, I want to do more of that, like, next year. And I feel like that's something that, you know, the path seems very different. Like you said, it's a lot more legwork than being like, I'm distributing my own thing. It's like, I have to get in front of people. And I think, you know, I wanted to ask about, like, leveraging the things that you know are weaknesses. Like, you may have an event where people don't show up, or you may have something that you haven't done before. And like, there's a realm in which you can be open about that with your audience or with people that you're pitching. And I definitely feel like that'll be with speaking is like, I know that I have people that have listened. I know I have all these things I'm good at. But someone's got to take that first gamble to put you on stage. That's what I told my publisher when we were pitching is I was like, I know that I have an audience that will buy my book. I just need you guys to help me because I don't know if I can write a book. So it's not going full pity of. I don't know if anyone will buy this. It's like, I know I have all these skills. How do I get this last one to kind of finish the circuit?

[Travis]

Yeah. And if you're, if you're going to share the story from a perspective of like, here's the lesson that I learned, here's my takeaway from this, then it feels different to me. But if it's just like a pity marketing thing, then yeah, I feel like that's not the way to go. But yeah, you can share and be like, oh, yeah, my. You know, I showed up to this book signing and nobody was there. And so for my next stop on the tour, I did this thing, this thing and this thing, and I got 24 people to show up. And then I took that lesson and the next stop of the tour, we had a full packed out room because I did this thing, this thing, this thing. Plus I did this other thing.

Yeah.

That I tried. You know what I mean? Like, people just get the idea that. Because it's. Because that if you build it, they will come. Mentality. I mean, it just is not true. It's like if you build it and then market the shit out of it, then people will come. It's. But you got to do both of those things. So just showing up, being like, I'm going to be in New York at Barnes and Noble on Fifth Avenue, whatever, like, that does not mean that people are going to show up to the event. So do some work ahead of time. You know, you're going there in four weeks, getting some Reddit groups or some Facebook groups or, or some whats chats or something of people that are in that area that frequently go to those types of places or they read those types of books and then just start pitching it. Like when we did our first live event back in 2019, which both of you were at, we like, I knew that I'd never done an event before and I was like, it's going to be a bad scenario here if the room is half full. So it was basically like there was a deadline. We didn't do any traditional marketing at all. All I did was spend hours every day DMing people and jumping on phone calls and telling them to get to the event. And like, what. What can I do for the ticket price? How is this going to make sense to you if we do this on this day? Would you also want to show up to this or we have this other thing, like, if people aren't just going to magically show up because you don't have a massive audience and they're not like, breaking down the door to come see you yet, then you have to do the legwork at the beginning in order to get to that point. And that's. I think, the part that people miss is that especially. Especially something like writing books, because anybody can do it at any time. And now with AI, it's even easier. So they mistake that. They think that's going to be the thing, and it's not the thing. That's the. That's step one. It's like, now I have a reason for people to show up. Now I gotta go convince them that that reason is good enough. And if it's not, I gotta find another reason that's good enough and actually get them to show up. So if you're sharing the story from a perspective of like, here's what I learned and here's what I did to do better the next time, that feels much different to me than just being Woe is me. Somebody please buy my book. I work so hard on this. You know what I mean?

[Eric]

Nobody cares. Yeah, it's what I always say, like

[Travis]

you and everybody else.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's what I always say about the auto group I used to work at, where they would. I remember they pitched this sales campaign and they were like, we'll do billboards because they had two Ford stores. They had one in Hemet and one in Temecula. And they're like, we'll do billboards and it'll be called the Battle of the Fords. And we're going to see who can sell more. And I'm like, that's a great internal incentive. Nobody's going to buy a car to help you win your battle of the war. Nobody's ever been successful.

[Ad Voice]

You know what?

[Eric]

I'm going to help them out. I've been waiting to buy my second biggest purchase of my life because of this. And the other piece of advice I always give in regards to. I don't know if you agree with this, but the thing I always tell people now is lead with the topic until the name becomes enough. When you're marketing a guest, it's like, if the guest is a giant name in the space, if it's David Goggins, you probably don't need to lead with how to run more. But it's like, if you're dealing with someone who isn't David Goggins, maybe lead with this massive amount of Mileage that someone ran. And same with myself with my show, it's like I always lead toward. Here's the topic I'm covering. That's gonna bring them in and then they can get to know me. And I think you've done that as well. It's like you're positioning the guest and then it's, Travis is here. You know, I don't know if you.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

I think it's gone a step further. I think now it's lead with the drama in the story instead of the topic. And like, let's. So I was. I was doing a strategy session and I researched, like, how is the diary of a CEO? Like, are they marketing this? Are they running ads? Are they doing. And they're running Facebook ads, but they're doing it in a way where they're. Before the episode airs, they're running a coming soon ad. And it's. Here's three different dramatic clips. Two will do. Okay. One will go crazy. And the crazy one, guess what? It ends up being the intro to the long form YouTube.

[Eric]

Oh. So they're ab testing intros as their Facebook ads to promote the show before

[Travis]

the episode comes out.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Before the episode comes out. Then there's a coming out today ad, similarly edited or whatever it might be that's pointing to that.

[Eric]

I think he just dropped a bomb.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah.

Where's the button?

[Eric]

Brad?

[Travis]

Yeah, call Brad real quick here. We'll just do a little.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Travis]

Dropped a wand. Yeah, that's honestly a really good point and something that we should probably start doing.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah, I like that lead with the drama.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Well, I was looking at your feed before I got here, and there's this amazing fighter pilot. Oh, yeah. That you interviewed. What was her name? I don't remember.

[Travis]

Mace.

[Eric]

Mace. Yeah. Great guest.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And well, it had like millions of views on the.

[Travis]

The short form that you had.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

And I go to the video and that wasn't the lead, but I was like, that was an amazing clip. Like, it made me want to watch the video.

[Travis]

Yeah, yeah. That. That clip actually did drive a good amount of traffic to the video because now you can do that. You can link the shorts to the related videos. Yeah, I think that drove like 90% of the views on that.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Right. But the organic view of the long form video, the, like, when they click it, are they staying because of how Good that first 30 seconds is.

[Travis]

Right, Right.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Maybe not as many people as it would have been because of that amazing clip where she's talking about. She's tired in the airplane.

[Travis]

Yeah, right.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

That was really interesting.

[Travis]

But anyway, that is true. We should test those a little bit before. My only my worry is like, if one takes off and then there's. It doesn't link to the video yet because we haven't released it. And they're like, where's the full interview? It's like, oh, coming soon. You know, that'd be my only. My only concern. But we could always just repost the short.

[Eric]

Ye.

[Travis]

And then as soon as we upload the video, just link it to the short at that time.

[Eric]

But no.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

Yeah, it's.

[Travis]

Anyway, stay away from pity marketing.

[Eric]

You should talk about brands more. I think you know what you're talking about.

[Travis]

Yeah, stay away from pity marketing if you can. This is not a. Not a good look, I don't think, especially for like the long term resonance of your brand. But yeah, if this was helpful, please

[Eric]

share this because nobody ever shares our stuff and we really need your help.

[Travis]

We work really hard, but that's it.

[Eric]

Flew in for this.

[Travis]

Just for this.

[Eric]

We didn't even pay for his flight out.

[Travis]

All right, guys, so listen.

[Brandon Burkmeyer]

So listen, if you're listening, we're going to take one minute here. We work really hard on the show and surprisingly enough, we're looking at the stats and 95% of you are not subscribed to this show. And that's very surprising to us because we put all this work in every week. I mean, not me, because I just got here, but you take the time. Hit the subscribe button. You'll thank us later.

[Travis]

Thank you. Thank you. And that's it for this episode of the show.

Thanks for tuning in.

Remember, money only solves your money problems, but Caesar, solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.