CO-HOST | Make Money by Mastering Podcasting and Protecting Your Time

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Mastering Podcasting and Protecting Your Time
Date: May 23, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Co-Host/Guest: Eric (Producer)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Travis Makes Money takes a candid, humorous, and insightful look at both the struggles and rewards of podcasting, specifically focusing on the minefield of good and bad podcast experiences. Travis and Eric share personal stories as both hosts and guests, offering practical advice and hard-earned lessons on how to protect your time, elevate your craft as a podcaster, and make money in the evolving podcast landscape. The tone is light, self-deprecating, and peppered with industry wisdom and memorable anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nightmare of Unprepared Hosts and Guests

• The Worst Podcast Guest Experiences
  • Both recall times they appeared on podcasts where hosts had done zero research or preparation.
  • Travis recounts being asked, "Can you, like, tell me a little bit about you, like, what you do and stuff?" right at the start (04:03).
    • Quote (Travis, 04:02): "If you’re gonna invite me on the show, don’t waste my time ... at least know why I’m even on your show."
  • Eric highlights a show so uncomfortable he asked the host not to release it, due to misinformation and disrespectful questions regarding sensitive abuse topics. (07:06–09:19)

2. Pet Peeves: Mispronounced Names & Lack of Research

• Even top-tier hosts and guests endure common irritations:
  • The widespread inability to correctly pronounce last names—even after hosts research and prep.
  • Both Eric and Travis agree it’s not necessarily about disrespect, but it highlights the general lack of professionalism in the space.
    • Quote (Travis, 05:52): "Because so many people say it incorrectly ... that doesn’t say you didn’t do the research required."
  • Travis shares how even Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank mispronounced his name in a video endorsement. (05:40–06:35)

3. Protecting Your Time as a Podcaster

• Both now say “no” far more often, putting efficiency and time with family as a top priority.
• Travis’s new rule for appearing as a guest: Only for podcasters who have published at least 50 episodes (30:39)
  • Quote (Travis, 30:50): "If it’s past 50 episodes, I will do your show. Because that tells me you’re top 10% of all podcasts to ever exist."

4. Podcasting By the Numbers: Reps, Milestones, and Consistency

• Eric and Travis compare their catalogues (12:04–13:08):
  • Travis: Started in August 2017, averages 33 minutes per episode, daily releases, thousands of episodes.
  • Eric: 431 episodes, started Jan 5, 2020, ~47 minutes avg, every 3 days and 14 hours.
  • They agree most podcasters drop out before episode 10 (12:24).
    • Quote (Travis, 12:20): "That is a lot considering 90% of shows don’t make it past episode 10."

5. War Stories: When Podcasting Goes Wrong

• Technical Fails:
  • Travis tells the story of his ill-fated video interview with Patrick Bet-David, where audio delays and inexperience led to a frustrating episode (19:58–20:20).
    • Quote (Travis, 20:03): "There was this latency ... makes it really, really difficult ... a nightmare of an interview."
  • Eric shares about being kicked out of a Vegas casino hallway by security mid-interview, and then attempting to finish the episode on the strip, only to lose audio quality (26:16–28:19).
• Difficult Guests:
  • Both agree the hardest episodes are ones with guests who give only surface-level answers or won’t talk at all.
  • As experience grows, Travis adapts by talking more himself, adding his own insights to cover dead air (22:03–22:27).

6. The Confidence to Take Control as Host

• With time, both became more confident at guiding the conversation and “interrupting” ramblers or reticent guests.
• Travis relates how research and assertiveness helped him manage strong personalities (like Grant Cardone) and not get steamrolled (24:30–25:42).
  • Quote (Travis, 25:42): "You gotta be strong enough to be like, hey, no, this is not the direction we wanted to go in. I want to go in this direction."

7. The Value of Experience and Setting Boundaries

• Setting boundaries protects long-term energy, time, and enthusiasm for the craft.
• For new podcasters, Travis encourages persistence—if you can make it to 50 episodes, you're already outlasting most.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Eric, on confronting a disastrous recording (09:34): "I don't feel comfortable associating with you. I don't want this to ever come out."
• Travis, on mispronunciations (06:35): "If that’s on my website, I can’t blame people for mispronouncing my name."
• Eric, reading an email from a toxic contact (17:28): "What I hear you saying is whatever you're doing is way more important than anything I could be doing ... what I'm considering now is that I may not be an ally or advocate for abuse survivors anymore."
• Travis, on saving time (30:39): "I’ll respond back and just say, yes, I will do your show, but you have to have at least 50 episodes."
• Eric, on picky listeners (29:20): "I put the link at the top of the show notes. The very first thing. Comment number 3 on the video today: I can't find the original interview. Can you link it, please? What is wrong with you?"

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [03:02] Travis on worst experience as podcast guest
• [07:06–09:19] Eric’s story of refusing release of an uncomfortable podcast appearance
• [13:07–13:27] Launch dates and the “COVID podcast” stigma
• [19:58–20:20] Travis on disastrous interview with Patrick Bet-David (technical fail)
• [24:30–25:42] Travis on strategies for handling strong, talkative guests
• [30:39–31:28] Travis’ new rule: Only appear on shows with 50+ episodes

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Practical Takeaways

• Preparation is Key: Whether hosting or guesting, research your counterpart. Know who you’re talking to, what they do, and how to pronounce their name.
• Value Your Time: Don’t be afraid to turn down guest spots that clearly waste your energy and offer little gain.
• Set Boundaries: Clear rules (like Travis’s 50-episode minimum) save time and ensure quality collaborations.
• Own the Show: As a host, it’s your job to guide the conversation, redirect as needed, and maintain a standard of professionalism—even when dealing with strong personalities.
• Longevity Wins: Most podcasts fail quickly; consistency and persistence alone get you into the top tier of podcasters.
• Adaptability: Technical glitches, rude guests, security guards, and clueless listeners are part of the game. Roll with it, tell the story, and keep improving.

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Closing Thought

Travis wraps up with his trademark philosophy, centered on forward-thinking financial and creative agility:

"Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast." – Travis (32:49)

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the podcast game—aspiring hosts, seasoned creators, and curious listeners seeking to peek behind the curtain at what it really takes to create compelling, sustainable podcasts while protecting your most precious resource: time.

Transcript

[Eric]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio and he's, he's a little, he's a little feisty today, I will say.

[Eric]

Yep.

[Travis]

See, not the normal greeting that we're getting from Eric. Just. Yep.

[Eric]

What do you want? Oh, oh, it's good to be here.

[Travis]

Just be on, you know, I'm on. Ready, go.

[Eric]

Hey everybody. Hey everybody. It's good to be here actually, nevermind. Okay. It's very good to be here, Travis. No, I'm angry today, but. And you know what, let's channel that into the episode. I wanted to talk with you. We were talking before we hit record about bad podcast experiences I've done. I was looking the other day and I actually had done more episodes than I thought I did. Cause I used to number all my episodes.

[Travis]

Yeah, what happened with that? Apple podcasts. I feel like at some point was like, hey, you're not allowed to number your episodes. We'll do it for you.

[Eric]

And then someone else does. I don't know. But I, but I, I miss it.

[Travis]

Cause I don't know how many episodes, like I don't know what episode we're on, what was.

[Eric]

Yeah, I don't either. And that would be like thousands, like

[Travis]

really difficult to go through the whole catalog number.

[Eric]

All of them good pods. Yeah, this was the other day or where is it anyway? Some site. And it was like 400 and something episodes.

[Travis]

That makes sense. You've been doing it for like six years.

[Eric]

Yeah, it was a lot. And I was just like, wow, that's a lot. And then I thought there's been some good, there's been some bad in that period of time. And I'm curious, I mean, you've probably had way more just based purely on

[Travis]

numbers, just on volume.

[Eric]

You probably have had way worse experiences than I have more frequently, and you're not as capable of a host where, like, you can, like, you know, wringle stuff in and, like, disrespectful or, like, if you're a guest and, like, the conversation goes off, you know, like you're

[Travis]

going to direct it.

[Eric]

You struggle when you're a guest and the conversations go off the rails. Like, you have a hard time, like, dominating the space.

[Travis]

Which one of us learned from the other one for got started. Huh? Huh?

[Eric]

Well, what do they say the student has become Hamaster?

[Travis]

Hamas.

[Eric]

That was Obi Wan Kenobi. Was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Travis]

It was Asian Obi Wan Kenobi.

[Eric]

No, no, no.

[Travis]

It was Obi Wan Kenobi the student.

[Eric]

I just. Okay, anyway, so give me your worst experience as a podcast guest first.

[Travis]

Ooh, podcast is.

[Eric]

That's ripe.

[Travis]

It's. Yeah. Innumerable bad experiences. That's honestly why I've said no to. To almost all of them recently. And I don't have, like, a ton of stuff to promote minus the podcast. So I just have not been, like, on a promo tour. I used to go on, like, five to ten shows every month like clockwork, for years.

[Eric]

That feels low. Yeah, it's probably more than, like, a week.

[Travis]

But I stopped doing it because of this exact reason, because it's just like, oh, my God, dude. Like, if you're gonna invite me on the show, don't waste my time. Like, I know I'm not, you know, this massive public speaker podcast or whatever, but, like, I'm still like, this. 30 minutes is 30 minutes I would rather spend with my kids than spend time with somebody who doesn't even know what I do for a living. So there was one in particular. This was. This was quite a while ago because I think it was on in the first house we moved to in Vegas. This had to be, like, 2018. And I was still relatively green to the space myself. But I at least knew that this was bad because I logged on to the call, who's a few minutes late, which. Whatever. But then the first thing. The first thing that he says is, so can you. Can you, like, tell me a little bit about you? Like, what do you. What you do and stuff? And I was like, I guess here's a couple of things. It's like, is there, like, any, like, questions that. That you think I should be asking you? It's like, dude, this is your job. This is literally your entire job in this conversation is to come prepared with at least A little bit of what to say. Like, I don't expect you to know my entire life story, but at least know, like, why am I even on your show? Like, you don't even know if you want me on. Like, who. How did you. Where did you find me? Why do you just blew my mind that, like, it's one thing to not know to pronounce my name. Because even if you, like, now this is why as a host, I ask every guest to pronounce their name for me. Even if I think I know. Because there's a couple of times where I would research, search it. So I'd come in knowing, and it was still wrong because, like, the other three podcast hosts that I listened to all pronounced their names incorrectly.

[Eric]

That is the worst. I did.

[Travis]

Oh, for you, it's gotta be terrible.

[Eric]

Well, yeah, well, let's not get in my name. But no, I. I was just telling a guest that the other day. I said, it stinks. When you're researching a guest and you go again before they even hop on the call, you listen to the beginning of like six other podcasts to hear how their name's pronounced. And then I'll like, ask them, okay, it's pronounced this to show them that I did research. I'm like, no, you don't pronounce it like that. Yeah, I purposely tell people your last name is pronounced Chappelle. Now they're like, what are you doing again? I work with Travis Chappelle.

[Travis]

You know, Travis Chappelle.

[Eric]

You know, because everyone that's. Everybody does.

[Travis]

Yeah, Yeah. I stopped correcting people on that quite some time ago. It sounds cooler, but it also, like, I can see how you came up with that conclusion and I know exactly what you're trying to say.

[Eric]

Right.

[Travis]

And because so many people say it incorrectly, like, I said, like, I know it doesn't. To me, that doesn't say that you didn't do the research required. That just means that, like, half the people probably said it like, that. Even Kevin Harrington did a video endorsement for me that I got from Shark Tank, like, right after I interviewed him back in the day. Yeah. And he goes, I asked for, like, for them to redo it and they never did. But he did this whole thing about, like, how. How awesome. Like, it was like a 90 second really cool video endorsement. We had it on a website for a long time and was saying, like, you have to get to know, like, this guy is a good friend and he's, you know, crushing in this space. And if you want to know anything about Networking. You got connect with my good friend Travis Chappelle. And I was like, ooh, so close.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And so if that's on my website, I can't blame people for mispronouncing my name. But. So there's a couple things like that that I'm like, yeah, that's not a big deal. But when it's like, you have no idea what I've done, who I am, what, like anything that I've. Anything that I talk about, it's like, what are we even doing on this podcast, man? Like, what's the goal here? Why did you even ask me to do this? So. And that experience, I've probably had something similar to that at least a dozen, which is far too many times for that to have happened.

[Eric]

Yeah, my. I had a similar one. It was the only podcast I've ever been on where I said, don't release.

[Travis]

Well, I was gonna say yours is worse though, because this was. This was more like.

[Eric]

Well, it was all of the above. It was bad intentions almost. So the producer, okay, so there was a guy that had like a. I think it was. I don't know if it was like an actual radio show or if it was like a web and they called it a radio show or something, but it seemed very legit. And the guy. And I say yes to even non legit shows all the time. So, I mean, it wasn't that crazy. But it seemed like this one was like, oh, good, it'll be like a professional podcaster. He had an assistant or his producer that was like communicating with me. He's like, oh, I'll send him the link and we'll connect. And so I jump on this call to do the interview and he's not there. And this producer jumps in. He's like, oh, let me make sure he has the link. I was like, okay, no big deal. And like, it was like 15 minutes in. So I'm sitting there with this producer. The guy jumps in.

[Travis]

15 minutes.

[Eric]

Yeah, I was sitting with this producer. Like, he's like, make sure I don't know what's going on. The guy is literally driving. He gets in, just audio only. He's like, hey, Eric. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, okay, here, I'm just going to pull over. I can just. I can just interview you. I thought I was going to be back in time to do this. So he pulls over in his car and then he's like, he starts interviewing me. And then my topic of my show is I talk about a lot of abuse cases and things. And I felt like he was.

[Travis]

That's heavy material.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's heavy stuff. And so, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm trying to give a good answer. Is he asking? Oh. And then he says his first question before we record is like, what are we talking about today? And I'm like, this is what I do. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he pronounced his name. No, that's not how you pronounce it. And then we get into the conversation, we start talking, and then my topic's very heavy, and I felt like he was very. Like, he was saying a lot of things very confidently about the topic himself that were wrong and, like, offensive. Like, he was. He said something about, like, people that are sexually abused have a very high rate of abusing others, which is not true. There's a. And I. And so I. I said in the. And then he.

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[Eric]

And then he said something about, you know, and. And what do you think about, like, with gay people? You know? Like, is that because they're molested? Like, just crazy stuff, which, like, it's all stuff I'd heard before. Like, misunderstandings of a lot of these things.

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[Eric]

But I was just like, I'm correcting and this. And then I got done with the call, and I was like, okay, thanks, dude. You know, bye. And, like, two seconds later, I was like, you know what? I don't want that to go out ever. I don't want to be associated. So I sent an email, which, you know me, I literally still think about, like, a month and a half ago, I sent a stake back on accident because they overheard me saying something negative about the steak. And I was so, like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I don't like confronting people. Yeah, but that was an email. I was like, I don't feel comfortable associating with you. I don't want this to ever come out.

[Travis]

What was the name of the show, Eric?

[Eric]

I don't remember. I don't remember. And they probably stopped.

[Travis]

It was.

[Eric]

Trust me, bro, it was terrible.

[Travis]

What's the name of the show?

[Eric]

It was terrible. So, yeah, that was a really bad experience. And just. By the way, before I ask the next question, I went to GoodPods. You started your show. What month and year do you know?

[Travis]

August. August 2017.

[Eric]

Okay. September 1st. September 21st, 2017.

[Travis]

No, that's because your back catalog wouldn't know what happened. I still honestly have no idea what happened. But one of so I've. I've transferred media hosts probably four times. Five times since I've started my podcast, maybe four times. And one of the times that I transferred the first like 18 episodes of my show just disappeared from the catalog. So if you go all the way back, like if you go to Spotify and hit it's like episode and hit earliest or whatever. It's like, yeah, episode 23, I think is the first one available. Well, but I know it was like the second week of August of 2017.

[Eric]

Well, on this main feed you have

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[Eric]

Episodes the average. The average episode length is 33 minutes.

[Travis]

That sounds about right.

[Eric]

Typically released every day. Hell yeah, brother. I looked at mine. I have 431 episodes. That's crazy. 431 is crazy. I did not think I did that many.

[Travis]

That is a lot considering 90% of shows don't make it past episode 10.

[Eric]

And it's crazy when people say, I started at the beginning, I'm listening through. I'm like, no, you won't catch up ever. There's no way to do that. And also, I wasn't good at doing podcasts when I started. The average episode length of my show. So yours is 30. The average episode length of my show, 47 minutes. Wow. And then my episodes are typically released every 3 days and 14 hours. Very specific.

[Travis]

That is very specific.

[Eric]

I like to keep that. The 14 hours is the secret sauce.

[Travis]

Although yours is also a little different in terms of consistency because you don't just release content for the sick of releasing content.

[Eric]

Well, I do on Sundays, Travis, because you have some fun. Every Sunday I release an Episode.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Eric]

Just so you know. And then. Yeah, there's also a lot of ones that pop in. My first episode was on January 5, 2020. That's what I hate.

[Travis]

Six years, bro.

[Eric]

I gotta say this. I hate when I tell people I have a podcast and they go, when did you start it? And I say 2020, but I have to say January.

[Travis]

Yeah. They're like, oh, Covid podcast.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. I started a podcast during COVID too. I did it before COVID was fun and happening and everyone was doing podcasts. Okay. I mean, it was very good timing.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

To start a show in January of 2020. But anyway.

[Travis]

Well, it was bad timing. Remember we started World Class.

[Eric]

I didn't want to bring it up.

[Travis]

Yeah. We launched it at PodFest, which was like keynote speech in front of like a thousand people. And I was like, yeah, it was awesome. And then it was like, world class. We're going to start doing YouTube in person interviews only. And then five days later, Covid was like. It was literally no more travel or in person anything.

[Eric]

So, yeah, we announced an in person only interview show.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And you announced it in Florida. Big old crowd. Woo. And then I remember. This is how I remember Covid starting is. I remember sitting in the bar the day we were flying out. I was like, that's weird. They're not letting us people off that cruise ship.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Yep.

[Eric]

Good thing I'm not on a cruise.

[Travis]

It was like, the rumblings of things are about to happen.

[Eric]

What's even crazier is I had literally already just signed my lease to move.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah.

[Eric]

And so we moved. We moved to Vegas in April.

[Travis]

That's right.

[Eric]

I had to pick up my keys. Like, they had it in the mailboxes with, like, plastic wrap over it. I didn't get a tour of my place. Like, I didn't even meet the office staff for like a minute after being there. Yeah. It's a crazy time. But let's not talk about COVID because we want this episode to not get shadowed.

[Travis]

Well, now, do you have parameters now for when you say yes to.

[Eric]

Right now, I'm saying no to everything. Okay. Because I want to say yes to everything when I have the book. The book out. But. Oh, my God. Can I tell you this story? I haven't shared this story. Do you want an exclusive story?

[Travis]

Oh, yeah. Hell yeah, brother.

[Eric]

I don't know if I want to. Okay. I'll tell you. Okay. I had a dude. I have. Okay. You know when certain people reach out and they. You. You don't Know why you don't want to do something with them, but you just get a weird feeling.

[Travis]

Yes.

[Eric]

So I had a guy that was reaching out to me all the time. Now actually, now I start with a

[Travis]

high rate of frequency.

[Eric]

Now it's like I start distrusting you. You gotta earn it, which is probably good, but no. There's one guy that asked me all the time who was in the space I'm in. I'm debating clipping this into starting war. I can't afford war right now. Anyway, this guy was wanting to do stuff and the vibe that I always got was because he does a lot of self published books. And I felt like he was just wanting to reach out to people with bigger audiences, which is not bad. I do that too. But I felt like he wanted people to do the legwork of research for him so he could compile it and sell it or pass it off as his course or his own thing. And also I just didn't. He was still kind of like there was a lot of stuff that I just felt weird about and I kind of just put it in my mind. I was like, I might do something with him, but when I do, it'll be when I have a book sold or a series about to come out. And so he reached out again in July when I started putting together my proposal for my book. So I'm like 40 pages into this like 65 page proposal and he emails me and I. And I finally respond. I had just kind of like said no once and then kind of just ghosted whenever he responded. Just sat in my inbox and so I just responded and just said, hey, I'm so sorry. I'm working on a huge project right now and I'm not doing really any press at all, but I'll hit you up when it comes out. He responded with his email. I wonder if I still have it. He responded with an email though, where he's like basically mad that that's the first time I responded in like a long time. Yeah. And this is a great indicator that

[Travis]

you made the correct decision.

[Eric]

Yes, I immediately got the email and was like, what the hell?

[Travis]

It's also a crazy response because like I, I understand the, the emotional response, but I have never actually acted on it because like as soon as you do that, you just burn the bridge for any future potential opportunity happening.

[Eric]

Exactly, exactly.

[Travis]

Which is a wild thing to do.

[Eric]

So. Yeah. So it was this really crazy email. Let me find it. Yeah, I feel like I almost said the name. I almost said the name. Okay. So here's what I said. This is my response. Okay. This is in June. I said, hey, Blank, I'm not currently looking at me interviewed on any podcast at the moment. I'm working on pressing projects over the next several months. Extremely true. Like, if true, he says, in my opinion, that's the story from all the advocates out here. Everyone's working on their own projects, and no one has time to collaborate and work together. What I have been upset with you and people like you is that most times people don't even bother to respond. So thanks for responding, but it really doesn't help to respond six months after I ask you something either to tell me to fuck off or let's talk about some ways we can take the load off each other. Easy, buddy. But I hear you say. What I hear you saying is whatever you're doing is way more important than anything I could be doing. And then he says, all I want was a response, which I said, I can't do anything. I can accept you choose not to do podcasts right now, but when you don't respond, it makes me think I'm not worth responding to. So this guy's, like, in the advocacy space. This is crazy. So what I'm considering now is that I may not be an ally or advocate for abuse survivors anymore. Jesus. Whoa. I'm not frustrated with.

[Travis]

Hey, hey. And that's on you, Eric.

[Eric]

And that's on me that this guy doesn't care about abuse survivors anymore. I'm not frustrated with survivors. I'm frustrated with allies and advocates that are too busy building their brand and running their business to include me or ask for my help or let me help, so have a good day. And I was like, thank God I never did anything with you. Seriously, though, I never showed you. I said, oh, that's. This is the kind of stuff I get.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's pretty wild. Okay, well, what's. What's wild, though, is that I also get that stuff for something that's way less consequential.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You know what I mean?

[Eric]

But saying, like, I may not be an ally or advocate for Herbie survivors.

[Travis]

That's crazy.

[Eric]

What the hell?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And then he. What's funny is he emailed me a couple months later about a story, but just with the story information, I was like, why would I want any.

[Travis]

Yeah, you can actually never email me.

[Eric]

I didn't realize. He said he dropped a F bomb in there. He did use asterisks. He did use asterisks. It's fine. So it doesn't count.

[Travis]

Thank you for censoring that word.

[Eric]

What's your. Okay, so what's your worst experience as a host? Who's the worst guest?

[Travis]

You are.

[Eric]

No, I'm just kidding. What's your worst experience as a host? And I already know the story.

[Travis]

Well, you do?

[Eric]

I was in the desert. I didn't have great Internet, and I didn't. I didn't want to speak up. I was getting delay in my headphones. That's the one you always say, oh, oh, oh with.

[Travis]

With Patrick. But David. Yeah, yeah, that is true. That was a. That was a bummer of a. Of. Of an interview.

[Eric]

Is that the worst or has it been.

[Travis]

No, it's not the worst because he was a good guest at that time. Was somebody who.

[Eric]

I really wanted to have a tech issue, though.

[Travis]

But, yeah, it was a. It was a tech thing because, like, at the time, I'd never recorded on video. I only did Skype. Aud tells you when I started my show.

[Eric]

Yeah, what's Skype?

[Travis]

So you literally had to have a Skype username. So when Zoom came out, it was like, oh, this is an easy switch, because you just have to click the link and it opens in the browser. But before it was like, if somebody didn't have a Skype, I was like, you have to create a Skype account so I can call you on audio only Skype. So when I did that interview, it was. It was his channel. He had a YouTube channel. I was a podcaster. And at the time, those were two completely different things. So he was just doing everything on video. I was just doing everything on audio. And I wasn't a strong enough host or interviewer at the time to be like, hey, I only do these on audio, so can you switch your. Your video off? So there was this latency between everything that he said and what I heard, which is. Makes it really, really difficult to do an interview, because if you interrupt somebody, they keep talking for, like, four seconds until they heard that you interrupted them, and then you're just kind of both talking over each other. It's just. It's a nightmare. So I heard. I heard an echo in my headphones. I had to, like, take my headphones off so that I hear myself speaking in real time, and then I heard myself speaking three seconds later in my headphones. It was just a nightmare of an interview. So I did not do a great job with that one. But there's been, like, several things like that. But that. That was not related to, like, the guests themselves. It's Just tech issues that come up. But there's been countless number of guests where have just been. It's like, it's just painful to try to get any content out of them. And it's not because they are not good at what they do, it's just that they're not good at being a guest.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So you ask questions, you phrase them as well as you can and try to pull stories out and then they just like at this point I've, I've gotten. Because I've done so many reps now, I just, I can, I can feel that out within the first like three minutes of the show.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So I just know that in this 30 minute conversation, I'm probably going to be talking for 15 minutes of it. So I just add more commentary in when I can before I ask another question because I know it's going to be painful as hell to try to get them to talk. Yeah, that happens like fairly frequently.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

But not to the degree where it makes the episode bad because again, I just fill it with a bunch of good stuff around the thing that they bring up.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I mean, so like they'll say something super surface level and then they stop talking. So I'll just expound further on their thought and then ask something else. You know what I mean?

[Eric]

So do you prefer, do you prefer people that talk too little or people that just ramble and go on and on and on?

[Travis]

I prefer people who ramble because I can stop them and move it somewhere else if I want to.

[Eric]

It's so hard at the beginning though, huh?

[Travis]

Yeah, at the beginning it's very difficult.

[Eric]

I had so many early episodes where I would just be like sitting there and then be like, all right, that's time.

[Travis]

Yeah, well, this was off the rails completely.

[Eric]

Now I'll literally just be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I like that. But. And then I stopped them. But in the beginning, if everything feels like you're going to get like punished.

[Travis]

Yeah, right.

[Eric]

You're just like, can I interrupt? Can I do this? Can I?

[Travis]

At the end of the day, if you're the host, it's your show, so you are responsible for getting the content that you want to get. And if somebody's going off the rails, then you have to take control of it and move the conversation. That, that's what I always, I felt proud of myself for the Grant Cardone interview that I did because it was very early on in my journey and it was the first in person in studio interview that I'd ever done. So I, I felt Already uncomfortable. And it wasn't in my studio. It was in Grant Studio Experience, a

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[Travis]

Yeah. So it's like I'm in Florida at his office, in his studio. It's like it's his house. You know what I mean? And he's already a very strong personality to interview. But what was really helpful was when I was prepping, I watched three or four interviews where he was just steamrolling people, completely steamrolling them, because that's. That's who he is. That's what he does. And so you have to recognize that as a host to say, and then be willing to basically be like, hey, stop, because I have so many other things that I want to get into. So we have to shift focus and get back into what I want to talk about, because this is ultimately my show that you agreed to come on, and people respect it. Like, it's not. Like, it's not this bravado, alpha thing where you're like, no, you'll listen to me. It's not that at all. It's just more like, this is how I conduct business with my show, and you've already agreed to do it. So let me take control of the conversation because I actually have things that I want to go over. I'm not just somebody. I'm not just somebody who brought you on for the clout. I actually put hours of research into this because I want to have a good conversation and I want to touch on all these other points. So, like, they. They ultimately respect that a lot, and they. They respect it, and it almost feels like a breath. A breath of fresh air for them.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You know what I mean? Because they're like, oh, finally somebody who can match the level of professionalism. That I'm used to, you know, I mean, because when people are busy and they do a lot of press and they do a lot of interviews, like, especially if they've done more traditional style stuff like television and radio and things like that, like, they're used to a certain level of professionalism that most podcasters just don't carry with them because they're not professional at what they do. So they just do whatever they want. So you gotta be strong enough to be like, hey, no, this is not the direction we wanted to go in. I want to go in this direction.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So

[Eric]

the worst time, where things actually went really bad, but it didn't really matter. It was inconsequential. That's what I love about all these is like, a couple years later, it doesn't matter. But at the time, it's so annoying. So I was at Vegas Hotel, like, Casino hotel. They're usually both.

[Travis]

And if you're not familiar with Las

[Eric]

Vegas, there was a dude here for a conference, and I was like, hey, let's just record after the conference. And so we found this hallway. I'm gonna show you. Because it's a hallway. Like, this is not a busy hall. It's an empty hallway. Like, it's a laptop and two mics that we're holding, and then like a tiny GH4 on, like a stand just like that. And nobody, like, maybe one person every six minutes is, like, will like, kind of filter through, and they have room to walk behind the camera. Like, we're taking up no space. And we got about, I want to say, 25 minutes in, and we're like. We're cooking.

[Travis]

We're going.

[Eric]

And then a security guy comes over and is like, you can't do this here. And we're like, what? We're just like. Like, people vlog through the casino. I was like, we're not stopping anybody. We're not doing it at a table or something. Yeah. Like, you cannot do this here. And if I come back through here again, like, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so he made us pack up everything.

[Travis]

What?

[Eric]

Yeah, it was.

[Travis]

And Paul Blart Energy.

[Eric]

Yeah. And. And. And my guest was like, look at Billy Badass over here.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Eric]

But anyway, we were. So he's like, yeah, you have to. Was this cleared by the hotel?

[Travis]

Yep.

[Eric]

I was just like. I'm just like, bro, what do you

[Travis]

go check with your supervisors and come

[Eric]

back in about 30 minutes. So anyway, so we packed up, and I was like, this is how stupid I am is. I was like, you know what, we're in Vegas. Like, let's do this. Let's just finish this. We can tell the story of what happened and we'll go on the strip and we'll just do it on the sidewalk and then we'll find an empty sidewalk spot. We can film there. Because that makes sense. Let's just in the middle, be next to traffic. So anyway, so I was like, that'll be cool. And it actually did look really neat.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And then the next day I checked and my audio was like all screwed up from.

[Travis]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Eric]

So, yeah, that was a. That was a bad technical experience as far as guests. I feel like it's always the worst thing in the world is just pulling information out of people.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Where you're like, I have to make you tell a story.

[Travis]

Right.

[Eric]

But again, it just feels weird because

[Travis]

it's like, you know, you're on a podcast. Right?

[Eric]

Right.

[Travis]

Like. Like that one time when we were recording for figuring it out and. And you asked Jackie a question, she was like, pass. She was like, wait, can I not do that? And you're like, well, it'd be better for the episode if there was content in it. Yeah, it was like, that's how I feel with these types of people where it's like, you know, you're on a podcast, right. Like, it's your job to answer questions.

[Eric]

Oh, it's worse.

[Travis]

Acting like it's terrible.

[Eric]

We were 50 minutes in and you'll see here we had a third spot where we finished up.

[Travis]

That's hilarious. Three different sets and we got four hour, 45 minute interview.

[Eric]

Yeah, it was crazy. And then we literally just had like our last. We had like 10 minutes. We needed to get. And that's here to get sucked. So anyway, well, some good and bad experiences. I felt like talking about it.

[Travis]

Yeah. The way at this point.

[Eric]

Oh, my God. Someone just commented on one of my videos. I linked in my show notes. I said in the video. I'm sorry, 28 minute episode. I said in the show notes. I said in the video. I said, hey, guys, if you want to listen to the original interview I did with this person before this episode, check the link in the show notes. I put the link at the top of the show notes. The very first thing. If you want to catch up, here's the thing. Comment number 3 on the video today. I can't find the original interview. Can you link it, please? What is wrong with you? All right, sorry, go ahead.

[Travis]

This is sort of like the per. My Previous email. Yeah.

[Eric]

And then someone liked it. And that makes me more mad because someone else is like, yeah, he didn't put the link,

[Travis]

man. It just goes to show you how simple you have to make it for people, unfortunately.

[Eric]

God. Yeah.

[Travis]

At this point, for, like, if it's. If it's somebody being a guest on my show, I kind of already said what I do about that. I just talk more. I end up speaking for 50 to 60% of the track instead of 15, 20% of the track. And then if it's me as a guest on someone else's show, frankly, like I said, I've been saying no, basically, to all of them. Unless it's a friend.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

That I know. That I know is going to do a good job.

[Eric]

Come on.

[Travis]

Well, not you. But then my rule now is anytime somebody reaches out to me, I like, because I'll say yes to basically everybody who reaches out.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

It's just that, again, I want to make sure I'm not wasting my time, so I'll. I'll respond back and just say, yes, I will do your show, but you have to have at least 50 episodes.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And if it's past 50 episodes, I will do your show. Because that tells me again, your top 10%.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Of all podcasts to ever exist, if you're past 10. So my thought is like, okay, you've done 50. You've proven that you're. That you are. Like, there's at least some sort of an audience there, even if it's still only, you know, 70, 80 downloads an episode or whatever. It's like, okay. But that doesn't bother me. It's more just like, I want to make sure that if we're going to log on and do this, that you're not going to waste my time. We're going to have a good conversation. You have some questions prepared and that we might have been able to like. My team can use this raw video and pull stuff from it and clip it and post it and stuff like that as well.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So now that's just become my. My go to. It's like, again, unless I know them. Like, I did one for a buddy whose podcast isn't released yet recently. But it's like, I know that guy. He's pod. He's. His other podcast, he did for, like, six years before he started this one. It's just a different show.

[Eric]

He's not seeing if he is into it.

[Travis]

Yeah, right. Exactly. So now it's more like, hey, if you. I'll. I'll definitely do your show. Happy to do it. Happy to help out anybody who's at the beginning of the journey, but not at the very, very beginning. I can do do 50 and then email me again. And the percentage of people where they actually email me again is so crazy low that it is just validating to the reason why I ask people to do that. Because just like, they just are not going to make it to 50 episodes. And if they do, I'll be happy to do it, but they just don't like again, about 90% of them don't, don't reach back out and you never hear from them again. And the ones that do, I'm happy to do it. And they feel better about it, too. They feel like, oh, I've earned this. And now they feel more motivated to make sure that it's a good conversation because they've been waiting for eight months to be able to make it work, you know? Right. So, yeah, a lot of good experiences, a lot of bad experiences, and you just kind of got to jump in and figure out what works for you. But that's been what's helpful for me.

[Eric]

This episode is one of the best experiences I've ever had podcasting. So go ahead and wrap it up because it's better not to drag on a good thing too long.

[Travis]

That's true. Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Cast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.

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[Travis]

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