CO-HOST | Make Money by Redefining Traditional Gender Roles, part 2

Summary

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Travis Makes Money – Episode Summary

Podcast: Travis Makes Money
Host: Travis Chappell
Episode: “CO-HOST | Make Money by Redefining Traditional Gender Roles, Part 2”
Date: March 23, 2026

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Overview

In this second part of a candid and relevant conversation, Travis Chappell and his co-host dive deeply into how couples today can reexamine, negotiate, and purposefully define traditional and non-traditional gender roles around work, home life, and making money. The discussion draws from their personal experiences, anecdotes, data, and reflections on both religious and societal expectations. The episode focuses on the importance of choice, open communication, and resisting external pressures—whether from tradition, feminism, or popular culture. The hosts stress the significance of creating a life and dynamic that works for your unique circumstances, with honest conversations at the core.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Traditional Gender Roles: Roots and Current Reality

• Many upbringings, particularly within religious communities (like LDS), still lay out clear expectations for women as homemakers.
  • “[It] means to be a good wife in the LDS culture is, you know, to be a stay at home wife, to cook, to clean. I think that's still ingrained in him.” (Guest, 01:16)
• Both hosts agree it's important to model options for their children: being a homemaker or being a CEO are equally valid ambitions.
  • “If my daughter wants CEO of a Fortune 500 company, it's like, well, that is also a path for you.” (Travis, 01:56)

2. Why Skills and Independence Matter—Even in Traditional Setups

• The necessity for partners (especially women) to maintain skills and career options in case of unforeseen circumstances like divorce:
  • “You should know how to do these things in the case that a guy to be capable leaves.” (Co-host, 02:21)
  • “There's a lot of women that stay in terrible marriages because of that example.” (Travis, 02:50)
  • Anecdote: Stories of women struggling after divorce because they’d never built up a career or resume (03:00).

3. Seasons of Life & Mutual Support

• Discussion recognizes that roles may shift over time—being a parent, supporting a partner, or focusing on personal growth:
  • “This is a season of life.” (Stassi Schroeder via clip, 01:37)
  • "Just because this is what you’re doing now does not mean that this is what you’re committing to do for the remainder of your life.” (Travis, 27:53)

4. The Psychological Impact for Both Partners

• For men, being a stay-at-home dad challenges identity and social perceptions:
  • “It's very easy to lose a sense of self. I was a little scared less about what other people were going to think about me and more about how I was going to value myself and how Whitney was going to value me.” (Guest, 06:36)
  • Travis underscores the truth: “That is a psychological truth for a lot of, like, men, women, dynamics…nuanced social dynamics…and again, like, evolutionary psychology factors…” (Travis, 11:35)

5. Society vs. Biology: Myths and Cultural Drift

• The hosts debate evolutionary psychology and societal constructs:
  • “There wasn't a single female in the study of evolutionary biology until a couple years ago. So even a lot of the takeaways are coming from a male POV.” (Co-host, 12:56)
• The damage of "manosphere" or "alpha" culture that twists kernels of truth into dogma:
  • “You’ve taken many liberties with something that we initially agreed on, and it's now turned into like a meme of itself.” (Travis, 14:04)

6. The Importance of Individualized Choice

• Pressure can come from all sides—tradition, feminism, or pop culture—with the risk of pushing people into roles or ambitions they don’t truly desire.
  • “You can't let any of these groups preach at you long enough to where you've deluded yourself into desiring something that you didn't actually desire.” (Travis, 25:54)
  • “That's the biggest defining difference is like you can choose to be a stay at home mom…You're not told.” (Co-host, 27:10)
• The only “right” answer is self-knowledge and mutual support.

7. The Data: How Many Couples Can Really Afford One Stay-at-home Parent?

• Only about 20% of US families with children have a stay-at-home parent, usually tied to significant income by the other partner:
  • “Approximately 20% of US families with children have one stay at home parent.” (Co-host, 16:39)
  • “To support one stay at home parent comfortably, the working spouse often needs $85,100,000 annually, depending on the state.” (Co-host, 17:43)

8. Experimentation and Communication as Keys

• There’s no universal path—each couple must experiment and communicate over time.
  • “We decided on this path after pulling out a bunch of different threads over the last decade.” (Travis, 18:56)
  • “Main takeaway is basically just have the conversations.” (Travis, 15:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(All times MM:SS)

• “There's a season for everything.” — Co-host, reflecting on life’s changing circumstances (03:45)
• “I've literally, in a sense, given up everything to fight for our marriage and to be here supporting you in your dreams…It's my turn now.” — Guest, on partnership sacrifices and fairness (03:51)
• “I need to have my own thing. Whitney and I were like, having this conversation, which is like, think it's time for you to quit your job.” — Guest, on purpose after leaving a traditional career (05:42)
• “It's very easy to lose a sense of self. I was a little scared less about what other people were going to think about me and more about how I was going to value myself and how Whitney was going to value me.” — Guest (06:36)
• “There are nuanced social dynamics…and again, evolutionary psychology factors…even beyond our ability consciously to try to outthink them.” — Travis (11:35)
• “You can choose to be a stay at home mom…You're not told.” — Co-host (27:10)
• “Neither one of them is a higher calling than the other one.” — Travis (27:16)
• “Just because this is what you’re doing now does not mean that this is what you’re committing to do for the remainder of your life.” — Travis (27:53)
• “Human beings are ultimate adaptation machines. We can figure it out. You just gotta be willing to put in the work to figure it out and not just accept whatever version of life that somebody else told you you had to live.” — Travis (28:29)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:16] — Traditional wife and mother expectations in LDS and modeling options for children
• [02:21] – [03:23] — Importance of maintaining skills and career options, anecdotes about divorce fallout
• [03:45] – [04:13] — Sacrifice, roles, and “season of life” perspectives
• [06:36] – [07:03] — Identity as a stay-at-home dad, concerns about respect
• [11:35] – [14:31] — Social/psychological impact of non-traditional roles and critique of “manosphere” culture
• [16:39] – [17:43] — Stats on stay-at-home parents and necessary household income
• [18:56] — The decade-long process of finding a dynamic that works
• [25:16] – [27:16] — Social and cultural pressures from all directions, the need for authentic choice

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, unfiltered, deeply personal
• Open-minded and respectful, avoids dogma
• Guided by data, real-life experience, and empathy
• Humorous, occasionally irreverent, but always supportive

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Takeaways

• Open Communication: Continually revisit roles and expectations as life circumstances evolve.
• No One-Size-Fits-All: What works for one family may not work for another—difference is okay.
• Reject Outside Pressure: Don’t let tradition, religion, or a cultural counter-movement make your decision for you.
• Maintain Skills and Options: Regardless of chosen roles, everyone should strive for financial capability and self-sufficiency.
• See Life in Seasons: Roles can and should adapt as kids, careers, and stages of life change.
• Celebrate Choice: The power is in the ability to choose freely, not in conforming to any prescribed role.

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Listen to both parts for the complete journey!

(End of summary)

Transcript

[Travis]

This is your fix.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I am your host, Stassi Schroeder. Welcome to Tell Me Lies, the official podcast. What's the most unhinged thing of season three?

[Podcast Announcer]

Steven.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Because he's so evil, I do think he is misunderstood.

[Travis]

You see everyone face consequences.

[Sponsor Voice]

It's intoxicating. The writers just know how to trick. Yeah, there's always a twist in this show.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Tell Me Lies, the official podcast January 6th.

[Sponsor Voice]

And stream the new season of Tell

[Stassi Schroeder]

Me Lies January 13th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. If you are tuning into this episode, just know that there is a part one. So you're going to be coming in sort of halfway through this conversation that my producer and I had about this topic of who should stay at home. Should. Should either one of you stay at home? Who has the ability to earn more? Does it matter? We talk about all these different types of questions here on this episode, which is why we wanted to turn it into a two parter because we think that it's extremely relevant for a lot of different conversations that are happening these days. So if you did not listen to part one, go back, listen to part one right now, and then continue with part number two right now.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It means to be a good wife in the LDS culture is, you know, to be a stay at home wife, to cook, to clean. I think that's still ingrained in him. That's why it's even more important. I do what I'm doing because I want to be a representation that your life doesn't stop when you're a mom. You matter too.

[Travis]

Real quick too.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This is a season of life.

[Travis]

Sorry. Real quick too. That was like the only thing that, that, that Jackie voiced as a concern for her was like she always wants to be doing something and it was more to be like, you know, the example for our daughter to say that, like, there is another option here. It's like if you want to be a wife and a mom and not have a career and just focus on raising a family, great, do that and be the best person that you can be in that role. But if my daughter wants CEO of a Fortune 500 company, it's like, well, that is also a path for you. And, and so like Jackie's Always wanted to like to hold both of those positions so that our daughter can see her mom doing these things, you know what I mean? And actually being successful and also should

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

know how to do these things in the case that a guy to be capable leaves.

[Travis]

Right.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Like, like that's kind of the thing with you guys is like if you tomorrow, I don't think you're gonna do this. If you tomorrow were like, I am gonna go get a gallon of and I'm not coming back. Jackie would know how to go get a six figure job.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

You know what I mean?

[Travis]

Like, or operate a business.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Right.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And so like, I think that's important too is like some people go, there's no plan B. You know, like, I know I have.

[Travis]

There's a lot of women that stay in terrible marriages because of that example.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

I have a. I have a distant family member that I know of. But it's like they're. I don't know if I should say this. I know a lot of. I'll just say I know a lot of people who didn't get a good education, didn't prioritize it, never work. Went into the workforce, had a bunch of kids and then got divorced. And now they're going. It's already hard to find a job and I have no resume and I'm 30 something years old and what do I do?

[Travis]

Yeah, alimony doesn't do that. Doesn't cut it.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

So. So that's all stuff to think about. But here I'll continue with her because I know we're getting tight and I'd rather watch this and talk to you. Like, that's such a religious trigger for me to use. Trigger wrong. But when people go, it's just a season of life we're in right now. It's like, oh man, there's a season for everything.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, does it mean that there isn't room for you to grow in the future or you to do your own thing?

[Guest (possibly Jen)]

I don't think that either. And I don't. I'm not trying to get that and I'm not trying to get like you feeling bad. Like, that's the opposite. But I've literally in a sense given up everything to fight for our marriage and to be here supporting you in your dreams. I remember, like for many years of our marriage was only thinking about what I had to do next. What was on my to do list, what I was feeling that I never. Yeah, it's my turn now.

[Travis]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

You see a guy with a Shovel.

[Travis]

Just digging.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Like when he. When someone's like sitting there and they're going, you know, for many years I did this thing and I was like, oh, you just set the stage to get dominated right now in this conversation. But here's the last one I want to share because I think this is a. So I. Because I was watching with my wife and Brianna. If you ask Google, I was talking to Tara. Google, if you're listening. I was talking to Tara and I was like, there's some things he's expressing that I think are normal with the societal pressures you have as a guy. Sure. But I felt like this was a much healthier expression of it with a better life.

[Travis]

This is the other couple you're talking about.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah. So here's. It's him talking. He's like, hey, bro, it's hard that our wives are super famous and rich and on Dancing with the Stars. Isn't that tough, you know, tough on parents? I wish, I wish Tara would get on Dance with the Stars. I could have three months, you know, go to la, go for it.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

You know, less isolating, feeling like there was another person there kind of walking a similar experience in life.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

We love Connor, don't we?

[Guest (possibly Jen)]

Jen and I went on our first date last night. She's just kind of like, hey, I'm loving being in LA and I, like, want to live here and I want to pursue, like, more opportunities out here. Like, are you down for that? And I don't know how sustainable what we're currently doing is for the long run. I feel like I'm gonna explode right now.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

It's a lot.

[Guest (possibly Jen)]

Are you enjoying a break from work or do you feel like you could be a stay at home dad forever?

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

That's a great question. I need to have my own thing. Whitney and I were like, having this conversation, which is like, think it's time for you to quit your job.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel like every time I come home from rehearsal, I'm even more overwhelmed because we're both working.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

There is like a gravitational pull around your career at the moment.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And I should have came and filmed you and Jackie having your conversation just like this. And we could have cut away to it, but. All right. But this is a good. I think this is a very healthy approach. What he says here.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'm even more overwhelmed because we're both working.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

There is like a gravitational pull around your career at the moment. And I don't think it's too selfish for you to say, hey, I could use the additional support of you just being A stay at home parent. Ultimately, I decided to leave my job as a technical analyst. Let me tell you, love my job and being a stay at home parent. It's very easy to lose a sense of self. I was a little scared less about what other people were going to think about me and more about how I was going to value myself and how Whitney was going to value me. Like, oh my God, am I going to lose her respect?

[Travis]

Which is also true.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

Take this as an opportunity for me to express myself in ways I don't think I would have had time for before. So something I've been doing. Tell me you're not going to believe this.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

What do you think?

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

Magic.

[Travis]

I wasn't expecting that.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Well, that's. He's been practicing close up magic. But anyway, perfect. So that's my recommendation. But I think that's like, again, it's a healthier thing of going like.

[Travis]

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[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

There's like again technical analysis. Probably making good money expressing all the things like I feel like yeah but also and it is funny but it's also a thing of, like, you know, you can build up your own social media following. You can follow this passion project. Like, that's kind of the cool thing too, is like, when you're in a situation where one partner is. Because again, even that's a kind of a privileged point of starting the conversation is like, one of you can stay home. And they're like, someone listening is like, neither of us can stay home. Like, we have to keep doing this. But if you are at the point where one partner, their career has that gravitational pull, it's blowing up, everything's working out. Like, you get to choose what you do with the time allotted for you to have that free time to go. Like, let me build up X, Y and Z. But anyway, I thought those were two things where I was like, these are two people struggling with the same thing.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And one person's like, I need you to shut this down soon because I can't keep doing this. And then the other person's like, I need to figure out how to make this work because one of us is making significantly more. You know what I mean? Like, that's a.

[Travis]

That is one of those things that is. That. That part right there was the. The psychological aspect that is easy to downplay. Like, the part where he said, like, I'm afraid that she is going to lose respect for me is like, that is a psychological truth for a lot of, like, men, women, dynamics that it's easy. Like, it would be easy in the context of a conversation for her to tell him, like, there's no way I would lose respect for you for doing that.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Sure.

[Travis]

But then also, five years later, be in a position where she's lost respect for him because she's the earner and he's not. You know what I mean? There are, like, nuanced social dynamics and again, like, evolutionary psychology factors that are at play that are even beyond our ability consciously to try to outthink them. So it definitely would not be easy. But it's also like, again, count your blessings, you know, because like, they're literally on TV talking about this right now on one of the most popular shows that anybody's watching at the moment.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And they themselves, they could leverage that

[Travis]

into their own version of what this

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

looks like, which they have dad talk, which has ruined season four. But we won't talk about that. No. Yeah. I. I will say, on the evolutionary side, you should definitely read for the Love of Men because I think there's a lot more. I think there's a lot less biological side to this than there is societal. Yeah. Like, would.

[Travis]

Would that be a lagging effect of biological.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Well, I'm saying they. One of the issues is this is a whole nother episode three hit record again. No, but, like, one of the things that she talks about in the book is. Is, like, there wasn't a single female in the study of evolutionary biology until a couple years ago. So even a lot of the takeaways are coming from a male pov. That's also reinforced by. So there's a lot of things that are. Like, one of the ones that's an obvious example is the idea that men are biologically wired to reproduce, so they want to sleep with everybody. And, you know, women are wanting to find one per. And it's like, a lot of that stuff has been very. Is very sketchily based on things, but it's been run with because it reinforces fresh and fit. You know what I mean? Like, that type of mentality.

[Travis]

So the manosphere.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah, so. So that's the thing. That's the thing too is like, there's a lot of stuff that's like, you

[Travis]

know, that brings me again back to my. My biggest gripe with the manosphere and alpha culture is that they make it unsolvable to me. It's like, even though they're pulling at threads of truth.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You know what I mean? It's like you just make it so dumb. Like, it's. You're. You're plastering, like, don't follow me symbol on you for. For people like me that I'm like. Like the first words out of your mouth. I'm like, yeah, totally, I agree with that. And then you start talking more and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. You've taken many liberties with something that we initially agreed on, and it's now turned into like a meme of itself.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah. What's a good. What's a good clip? Example of that? I'd love to stitch that with something.

[Travis]

Of what?

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Of someone saying something you partially agree with, and then it goes off the rails.

[Travis]

I'll find something.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Okay, Send me something.

[Podcast Announcer]

No, there was.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

There was one crazy one I didn't know there was a. There was a evolutionary biology myth that was propagated for years that men are biologically predisposed to rape because of their reproduction biology. And like, again, that's obviously being. That's a study that's being interpreted by a guy that wants to be doing

[Travis]

that has some nefarious intentions.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

But anyway, anyway, all that to say, I think there's some. Yeah, yeah. All that to say, don't do that.

[Travis]

And also, also that I don't know. That's why I'm such a big fan of, like, I mostly try to stay out of other people's business. It's like, here's what, here's what's worked.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

If he likes raping, let him. Right?

[Travis]

Not that, but I, I, for the most part, I'm just like, if it works for you, it works for you. And that's all I have to know. Like, I don't have, like, I, I don't have to shove my, you know, my beliefs down your throat in order for me to be okay with you existing.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Because you're giving the advice to someone like, you giving the advice to them. Like, bro, it just works better if the guy goes and provides and then they're like, hey, quit mom talk and drop out of all these things.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And then we're back to exactly where

[Travis]

we were before, you know? Yeah, yeah. So I would say, like, main takeaway is basically just have the conversations. And like I said, count your count. Count your blessings. If you are in a position to be able to have the decision to have one person stay at home, that's already a position that most people are not, are not in. So be grateful for that. But, but then have the conversation so that you know what's going to end up working out for you.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

At the risk of, of dragging this episode on too long.

[Guest (possibly Jen)]

Yeah.

[Travis]

We can make it two parts if

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

we need to, but I gotta say this one thing. I. I just want to look. How many couples are able to have one person stay home? I wonder what the data is on that.

[Travis]

It's not a lot. I would assume less than 20%.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

I think I would say maybe less than 10. What do you think?

[Travis]

Probably because, like, you got to make six figures anymore.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

I feel like, wow, you nailed that. Approximately 20% of US families with children have one stay at home parent. I don't even understand. I don't even understand.

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[Stassi Schroeder]

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[Travis]

can be that many?

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah. About 66.5% of married couple families with children have both spouses employed. To support one stay at home parent comfortably. The working spouse often needs $85,100,000 annually, depending on the state. Yeah, dagum, that's crazy.

[Travis]

Yeah. So like, that's why I say, like, be grateful you're in a position to even have that conversation because a lot of people literally don't have the option. Which is again, another reason to keep listening to the show. Because you obviously want to be able to put yourself in a position to be able to do that if that is what you desire. Because that, that was what, that was. What my big thing was with you recently was like, I want, I like my, my, you know, conversation to her was basically, I want you to feel that if you want to completely stay at home with the kids that you can absolutely do that. And that was something that I did not express to her when we first got married. And to be fair, without kids, it's a little bit of a different conversation.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah, it's tougher to justify. Like, do you not want to work?

[Travis]

Like, what are you going to do? Yeah, like, you know, like that was literally what she said. She was like, like, we didn't have kids, it'd be different. She was like, yeah, like, I don't even know what I would do with my day. Like, how would I, like, what would I, how, like, how would that even work? Like, I would, I would just go crazy just doing nothing all day. So. But with kids it's a little bit different because there's plenty of things to do with, with the kids being there. And like I said, that's why I say, that's why I say this is what works for us. And. But the path that we took to figure that out was not just accepting what other people told us should be the solution. The path that we took to figure that out was a decade of continued experimentation to see what path was going to work out best for us. And we decided on this path after pulling out a bunch of different threads over the last decade. And so, you know, it's just going to look different for everybody depending on the stage of life that you're in depending on if you have kids, if you don't have kids, or if you're married or if you're just together or you're just, you know, happen to be living with the person that you're with. There's a lot of other external factors that go into this, but from our daughter's perspective, we just, like, like you said earlier, like, our. Our goal was sort of just to be like, look, we want you fully capable and confident in your ability to go create the life that you want if it doesn't work out, going this other path, and if that is the path that you desire to go down. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's a. It's a very nuanced, long conversation, but ultimately ended up working out for us the way that. The way that, you know, ended up doing it. But I'd be curious what your thought was, like, from your perspective for. For you and Tara, too. I know, like, you guys have sort of maintained, you know, sort of a traditional values type of a role there.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah, I don't let her even have social media. I just say no.

[Travis]

I mean, I never met her.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah, yeah. She's not real. She's an AI Chatbot. No, I mean, we've talked. We've definitely talked before. It's like, I mean, there's so many layers to that that I think it would be interesting if she shared on that, too. But I think because we. I mean, we got pregnant three months into being married and then pregnant the second time.

[Travis]

And you were married at 20? Yeah, she was 19. 18.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah, 19. I was 21. And then got pregnant again like, a few months after that in, like, so all within the first year of being married, where it's like, you know, the ability to pivot and be like, oh, try these things out was limited. But I think it's also, like, especially

[Travis]

because that wasn't initially on the table because of the way that we were all raised.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Right. Yeah.

[Travis]

It's not like she had a bachelor's degree in economics and was like, oh, I have this job offer on the table. Oh, but I got pregnant.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Yeah. It was like, we don't have a backup plan. But I think now I think we've had more and more conversations about, like, what does that look like once one of us doesn't have to be boots on the ground as much like, like, knowing the data that, like, once your kid turns, like, 13.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

The amount of time that they're going to be away at extracurricular stuff or doing, you Know, are they on a traveling team somewhere, whatever? Like, what do you want to do? What does that look like? And also, I mean, I've even. Even for me, like, you know, I've thought about stuff recently where it's like, if I want to scale back from, you know, like, just aggressively trying to make money at xyz, it's like, do I want to go back and pursue education in ways that I didn't before? Like, there's so much there that I think is unique, where it's like, trying to unpack that. But right now, I think our approach has just been like, who's currently making money? And, like, do we want to. Do we want to, like, suffer as a unit, upset the ecosystem? You know what I mean? But also, like, very much with a lot of our stuff, it's been like, sprints. It's like, hey, for the next six months, we're going to try this thing or do this. And, you know, like, right now, I can say this because it'll be, you know, I just signed, like, the book deal. It's like, the. You know, I know through the end of this year is going to be a lot of. I'm going to need to lean on her a lot to be able to do that. But also, if that does really well, it might free me up more to be able to also be like, here, do you want to do something to

[Travis]

give up some of your other responsibilities to pursue that exclusively?

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

So if it is really poorly, we'll have to record more episodes and hopefully get some sponsorships, and we'll make it happen, you know? But, yeah, I mean, I think that's it. Like, I look at everything in life as, like, sprints. It's like, what works for parenting right now.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Like, the minute I start going, I'm only doing this because I. Everybody I know does this.

[Travis]

Exactly.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Then I'm like, that's not a good

[Travis]

reason to keep doing that, and it's

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

also not a good reason to not do it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like. Like, we were looking at it one time, and we never seriously considered it, but I was like, if we put, you know, our kid into daycare, we would spend more than what the average person makes at their job, which is crazy. But it's like, okay, well, is it worth.

[Travis]

In order to justify that decision, you have to be able to work for

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

me to say, like, three or four. Oh, I need you to work. You know, like, if you're gonna be in the relationship, I need you contributing equally. And it's like, well, you are contributing equally, sometimes more than equally, because you're managing all of this. Yeah. Right. So.

[Guest (possibly Whitney)]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

I mean, I don't know. There's a lot of layers to that that go deep into religious.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Like, like in retrospect, do you get married and have a kid immediately? There's a lot of things like that where you go, like, I don't regret it. But also I wouldn't advise doing that until, you know all these different factors.

[Travis]

Yeah. Until you've asked yourself some of these questions. Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Well, look at that, a two parter.

[Travis]

Yeah, two parter.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

It did it. We did it.

[Travis]

Yeah. But I think it's, I think it's a very relevant conversation to be having these days.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Everybody, everybody out there is probably working and a lot of people are probably in relationships.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And a lot of people probably have to choose who's working.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

So that's probably relevant.

[Travis]

A lot of people just sort of comes down to what you just mentioned, which is just like, ask the questions. Be willing to question the traditional roles or the non traditional roles. I also think that there's a lot of women that are being pushed into having careers or being pushed into desiring career goals because there's a big fight against men being the primary earner and for no other reason, you know what I'm saying? Where like they feel that if they were a stay at home mom or a wife, that that makes them less of a woman or less of a feminist or something.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Like they're failing. They're failing this generation.

[Travis]

Right, exactly. That they're, that they're just contributing to the patriarchal narrative that has been around for so long. So because of that I need to have these other goals. And it's like if they were just allowed to exist in their own silo without all these external pressures, they might find that the traditional path actually makes more sense for them or that they would actually be happier doing that path. And so it's sort of just like you gotta be able and willing to ask the questions within the context of your relationship and your life and what's going to work out for you and what you want to actually accomplish without the church preaching traditional values or culture preaching traditional values or, or the opposite of that or, or feminist culture preaching the opposite of traditional values. You, you can't let any of these groups of people preach at you long enough to where you've deluded yourself into desiring something that you didn't actually desire because there is an expiration date and that is the unfortunate Biological truth, especially for women, is that there is an expiration date on having kids. And I think that, you know, at some, at some point there might be this sort of like reckoning where, where, where there's some women that are like, have this sort of like midlife crisis, you know what I mean? Where they're like, oh, I actually, you know, I've achieved a bunch of stuff in this career and I have a lot of money and I'm, you know, competent and, and I can stand on my own two feet and I can earn good money. But man, I, I gave up this entire part of my life because everybody told me that it wasn't worth it, but I never actually made that decision for myself. And then the opposite is also going to be true. You know what I mean? Where, where there's, there's men who are doing the same exact thing, but the opposite. So yeah, it's, it's, it's. Things are shifting in a, in a positive direction where this is the first time in history where it's been possible or doable for women to be able to step into that role and for men to be a stay at home dad without the, you know, cultural, which

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

is the pressure of feminism. It's not to be like, oh, you get to be a dude now. It's like you get to choose.

[Travis]

Right.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

That's the different, that's the biggest defining difference is like you can choose to be a stay at home mom.

[Travis]

Exactly.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

You're not told.

[Travis]

And neither one of them is a higher calling than the other one.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

Right.

[Travis]

You know what I'm saying? Like that, that's, that's the part that, that's the part that, that has sort of upset Jackie is that she, she just feels like no matter which path she chooses, there's going to be a group of women who are upset at her for her decision.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

She knows an equal amount of them on both sides now.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

But you're like, that's so sad. She has a career.

[Travis]

Exactly.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

And then she have other people that are like, you had a great career. Yeah, what happened? You know?

[Travis]

Right, right. But that's, that's what you ultimately have to be able to do the work to get to know yourself and have enough self awareness to decide that this is going to be the path for me regardless of what everybody else says and just relentlessly pursue that path. But some of that is going to require some testing and experimentation. You likely will not know the answer to that when you're 18 years old. You know what I mean? Like you got to go out and live a little bit of life before you can make some of these life altering decisions. And then like you said, it's a season. Just because this is what you're doing now does not mean that this is what you're committing to do for the remainder of your life. You can adjust and change along the way, especially if you have a partner that's actually supportive in your role in life and what you're looking to do then have those honest, open communications and communication and conversations and you know, you're probably, you'll probably figure it out. You know, like that's the good news is that we're, we're, you know, human beings are ultimate adaptation machines. We can figure it out. You just gotta be willing to put in the work to figure it out and not just accept whatever version of life that somebody else told you you had to live.

[Co-host/Guest (possibly Tara's partner)]

That's right.

[Travis]

So anyway, that's it for this two parter of the of the show. Thanks for tuning in. If you're only tuning to this episode, know that we that you did not listen to part one. Go back and list part one so you can have full context of this conversation.

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