CO-HOST | Make Money by Saying Yes to High-Risk, Low-Pay Opportunities (Oscars buzz)

Summary

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Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Saying Yes to High-Risk, Low-Pay Opportunities (Oscars buzz)

Date: March 15, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell | Co-host: Eric

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Overview

In this co-hosted episode of Travis Makes Money, Travis Chappell and his producer, Eric, dive into the economics and career value of taking on high-profile but surprisingly low-paying opportunities—like hosting the Oscars. Drawing from the current buzz around the Academy Awards and Conan O’Brien’s hosting turn, the duo use the Oscars as a lens to discuss how leveraging high-risk, low-pay gigs can build credibility and advance your career. The conversation pivots from behind-the-scenes facts about awards show hosting to broader lessons on seizing unglamorous opportunities to fuel long-term success.

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1. Oscars Buzz and The Value of Hosting (00:50–06:32)

• Oscars Season Banter
  • Eric opens with Oscars excitement and playful back-and-forth about legendary hosts like Conan O’Brien, Billy Crystal, and Bob Hope.
  • Notable Quote [03:30, Eric]: “So that's Conan. Conan's funny, huh?”
• Surprising Host Pay
  • Eric leads a quiz on Oscars host compensation, with Travis guessing it’s six figures.
    • Revelation: The reality is $15,000-$25,000 per host, as confirmed by Jimmy Kimmel and Wanda Sykes.
    • [05:48, Eric]: “Jimmy Kimmel, when he hosted the Oscars, said he made $15,000.”
  • Despite the $38 million Oscars budget, star hosts work for nearly union-scale wages—often at a personal loss after accounting for prep and opportunity cost.
• The Job’s Demands
  • Discussion of the intense, high-pressure, thankless nature of the hosting gig.
  • Quoting hosts:
    • [09:01, Eric]: Chris Rock: “If they nominated hosts, I wouldn’t even get this job. Y'all would be watching Neil and Patrick Harris right now.”
    • [09:28, Eric]: Wanda Sykes called it “one of her lowest paying jobs relative to effort.”

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2. Why Take High-Risk, Low-Pay Gigs? (12:29–18:00)

Evaluating Opportunities Like the Oscars

• Analogy to Regular Career Moves

  • Eric points out that while most listeners won’t host the Oscars, similar opportunities (speaking at events, writing books, taking on visibility-building projects) abound.
    • [12:44, Eric]: “When it comes to opportunities like this that are like, super high risk, potentially super high reward, but low monetary... how should people determine if it's even worth taking a gig like that?”

• Travis’s Framework for Assessing Opportunity

  • Key Factors to Weigh:
    • Ancillary/credibility benefits: Who is in the room? Can you leverage footage, photos, resume line-items for future gigs?
      • [13:41, Travis]: “The question is... what are the other ancillary benefits of doing this thing? ...Who’s the speaker lineup? What’s the size of the audience?”
    • Access to networking: Do you get to meet/join circles with influential people?
    • Long-term leveraging: Springboard for future shows, podcasts, speaking fees, or deals.
    • Resume/Credibility: Small gigs can be stepping stones to larger ones.
      • [14:45, Travis]: “If you don't have a ton of credibility to stand on, then it could be a really good idea to basically take whatever opportunity that you can get.”

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3. Building Credibility in Any Field (18:01–23:16)

The Power of Stacking Wins

• Eric’s Real-World Pitch Example

  • Cites the importance of endorsements and credibility when making big pitches, using his own experience with guest lists and credentialed experts.
    • [15:36, Eric]: “Having that credibility boost is amazing.”

• Travis’s Credibility Ladder Advice

  • Mindset Check: Don’t overvalue your worth prematurely or expect to skip to the top.
    • [18:01, Travis]: “People undermine or undervalue what credibility really means for their brand. ... There is a huge discrepancy between you and the other types of people that are getting booked on these types of podcasts.”
    • Some people just have to "get your foot in the door" with paid placements or travel costs early in their journey.
  • Industry Truths:
    • The number of top-platform opportunities is stagnant, while competition to get those slots has exploded.
      • [21:20, Travis]: “The competition to get booked on those same shows is so much greater than it was five or six years ago.”
    • Hosts want audience, not just stories: “If you don’t have any of that, then your story has to be crazy interesting or unique...”

• Bottom Line Strategy

  • Self-awareness, patience, and willingness to invest time (or money!) are crucial in the early stages of a new arena.
    • [22:18, Travis]: “Sometimes be willing to come out of pocket... even if it costs you a little bit of money because the credibility that you gain is definitely worth it.”

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4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Oscars Host Segment

• Jimmy Kimmel and Wanda Sykes pay revelations [05:57, Eric / 06:32, Eric]:
  • “Oscar hosts typically earn a surprisingly modest fee for the high profile gig… $15,000 to $25,000 dollars… as shared by past hosts like Jimmy Kimmel and Wanda Sykes.”

Career and Credibility Wisdom

• [17:56, Conan O'Brien via Eric]: “It will either go well or it will go badly. Both are distinct possibilities.”
• [22:47, Travis]: “Get your foot in the door. However, you can say yes to the opportunity, and then eventually you'll be able to start getting enough inbound opportunities to say no to ones that don't match…”

Lighthearted Interludes

• Ice cream debate as metaphor for personal taste and "best host" fun:
  • [10:41, Eric]: “Stephen Colbert. Americone Dream is the best ice cream ever made.”
  • [11:55, Eric]: “Americone Dream is literally, you know, like those drumsticks that you get. Yeah, it's that blended…”

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5. Takeaways & Actionable Advice (22:00–23:31)

• Say yes early, when stakes are lower and competition is higher.
• Credibility compounds: High-risk, low-pay gigs build visibility and reputation, key to getting bigger, better (and higher-paying) opportunities.
• Don’t be afraid to invest—time or money—to accelerate credibility.
• Self-awareness matters: Don’t overestimate what you bring. Understand the host/gatekeeper’s perspective.
• Start from the bottom in every new arena—be patient, hustle, stack wins.
  • [22:40, Travis]: “Start with something or be willing to come out of pocket... most of the time a combination of the two of them.”

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6. Final Thoughts

Travis and Eric wrap up reaffirming the central thesis: the road to financial advancement and career-defining roles isn’t straight, glamorous, or instantly lucrative. The willingness to take high-risk, high-visibility, sometimes low-pay roles is what builds real, bankable credibility—the kind that pays off exponentially later.

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Recommended Next Episode:
Travis and Eric hint at a taste-test episode of Ben & Jerry’s flavors—proving that sometimes, the most profitable content is also the most fun.

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Key Timestamps:

• 03:30 – Oscars host banter
• 05:48 – Pay for hosting the Oscars revealed
• 09:32 – Quotes from past hosts
• 12:44 – How to weigh high-risk, low-pay gigs
• 18:01 – Building credibility, not skipping steps
• 22:47 – Practical advice on saying yes and growing your career

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Transcript

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel. Com. For a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's a mission to help you make more money. This is a co hosted segment with my producer, Eric.

[Eric]

That's me.

[Travis]

You're the. You're the co host guy.

[Eric]

Ding, ding, ding. Here I am. Good. Going up. Bing. Oh, I just came from a magical fairyland.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah.

[Eric]

You know. Anyway, it's Oscar season, baby. Yeah. Woo.

[Travis]

The only reason I'm invested is because Conan.

[Eric]

Are you going to watch the Oscars

[Travis]

with Conan o' Brien is hosting?

[Eric]

You'll watch. Okay, so your real answer is you're going to watch all of the clips that get posted later of Conan from the Oscars, but you're going to skip the entire awards. That's right. I'm going to skip all the parts with Conan. Big Boar.

[Travis]

No, you're not. No, you're not.

[Eric]

And I'm only gonna watch the awards

[Travis]

the year after he hosted.

[Eric]

He's great. Conan is great.

[Travis]

He's the.

[Eric]

Is he not.

[Travis]

He's the goat of hosts.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

What host is better than Conan?

[Eric]

Not James Franco and Anne Hathaway. Because that was one of the worst hosting appearances. You know who did a good job?

[Travis]

Nikki Glaser does a great job hosting.

[Eric]

She. And she's never hosted the Oscars. No.

[Travis]

But the Golden Globes she crushed.

[Eric]

It's great. You know who did I think did a good job? Who? Seth MacFarlane did a good job posting the Oscars.

[Travis]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Eric]

Good job. One year.

[Travis]

He is a just very, like, low key, talented person.

[Eric]

But do we like Conan? I mean, Conan's kind of a snooze.

[Travis]

What?

[Eric]

You know, I always see clips of Conan. I go, what a bore.

[Travis]

You sound like Conan commenting on Conan.

[Eric]

Conan's impersonation. Conan's impersonation of me impersonating someone talking about Conan. All right. Yeah. Here's a little flavor. Here's a little flavor of Conan. It has nothing to do with the episode. It does, actually, but it's just. I want to talk about the finances of the Oscars. There's some interesting things I think you'll be stunned by. But here's a little snippet of Conan just to he's better than us. Here's a clip.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hi, Demi.

[Eric]

How are you?

[Conan O'Brien]

That was weird.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Awkward.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm missing some car keys. Anyway, this is very exciting. Hello. I'm your host, Conan o'.

[Travis]

Brien.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah,

[Travis]

thank you. Give it up to Conan.

[Conan O'Brien]

I know what you're thinking. Did Conan not have work done? Seriously, he looks his age. I should have done something. I am excited to be here. Welcome to the 97th Academy Awards. It's Hollywood's biggest night. That starts at 4 in the afternoon. Everyone here just had brunch. I don't understand it.

[Eric]

So that's Conan. Conan's funny, huh?

[Travis]

Conan?

[Eric]

You like Conan now? Conan hosted the Academy Awards previously. It's been hosted by people like Billy Crystal. Billy Crystal. Other times, Jimmy Kimmel.

[Travis]

I think other people.

[Eric]

Yeah. Lots of people have done it. Billy Crystal used to be, like, the golden boy for the Oscars. I think he hosted more than anybody.

[Travis]

Is that true? I mean, Billy Crystal's a pretty solid host.

[Eric]

Hosted the Oscars how many times? I know. He holds the record nine times.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Eric]

Billy Crystal has hosted the Academy Awards nine times. His tenure as host span from 1990 to 2012 with consecutive runs in the early 1990s and 1997-1998-2000-2004, and 2000 and 12. He's the second most frequent host in Oscars history behind.

[Travis]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Eric]

Behind Jay Leno, Bob Hope. Now, if you want to talk about a comedian that is a big bore, watch a Bob Hope movie, dear.

[Travis]

Whoa. Shots.

[Eric]

Fire. What a snooze. Bob Hope, Red Skelton, all of those fellas boring.

[Travis]

Are you being facetious right now?

[Eric]

Bob Hope is one of the most boring names. Like, if you go. If you sit there and go, you're destroying your credibility. If you go Abbott and Costello, genius. If you go Laurel and Hardy, genius. You go the Three Stooges, genius. You give me Bob Hope. I'm taking a nap.

[Travis]

Really?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

This is a bad take. All right, so I'm not a part of this take.

[Eric]

So there's been many hosts, and I was curious if you had any inkling of how much you make for hosting the Oscars. I Want you to noodle on that for a second. Think about if you're hosting the Oscars, you're Conan o', Brien, you're. No, probably his most popular he's ever been. How much is Conan o' Brien or Jimmy Kimmel? What are they making to host the Oscars?

[Travis]

I would. I would assume it's six figures. I wouldn't assume it's seven figures.

[Eric]

You wouldn't assume it's seven, huh?

[Travis]

With you saying that, I assume I'm wrong now, but yeah, I would put it somewhere between a half a million and a million.

[Eric]

Really? That's where you'd put it?

[Travis]

Am I wrong?

[Eric]

Is that your final answer?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Do do do do hoo.

[Travis]

Was it like $3 million?

[Eric]

No. Jimmy Kimmel, when he hosted the Oscars, said he made $15000.

[Travis]

$15000.

[Eric]

$15000 to host the Oscars? Yep.

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[Eric]

Oscar hosts typically earn a surprisingly modest fee for the high profile gig. Recent reports peg it around $15,000 to 25,000 dol. Dollars, as shared by past hosts like Jimmy Kimmel and Wanda Sykes.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Eric]

The Academy pay. And. And think about this too. Like, Jimmy Kimmel has a. Or Jimmy Kimmel. Oh, him too. But Conan o' Brien has a team of writers he's working with. Yeah. He's putting together gigs and like. So the Academy put.

[Travis]

They do like, bits and sketches.

[Eric]

Yeah. That he's having to put mental energy on. And it's one of the most potentially, like, award show hosts. I don't know if you remember what happened with. What's the. I forget his name. He just hosted. He bombed so bad.

[Travis]

It was like, oh, Nashi.

[Eric]

No. Did he bomb?

[Travis]

I didn't. I didn't watch it myself, but I heard some rhetoric that it was not great.

[Eric]

Oh, what's the guy?

[Travis]

I thought it was funny. Like a couple of the bits that I watched I thought were funny.

[Eric]

Yeah. Oh, Joe Coy.

[Travis]

Oh, really?

[Eric]

Joe Coy bombed. He was hosting. It was the Golden Globes. Okay. And Nikki Glazer came in. They're like, we need Glazer crushed. Yeah. He, he bought. Have I, I didn't show you this, bro.

[Travis]

You know how difficult it would be to host a show like do it with.

[Eric]

But I was.

[Travis]

With the, the volume of, of incredible talent that's in the audience. Well, like it would be like that is a, that is a tough room

[Eric]

and you're the person that has to keep the energy going right from 4pm to like the Oscars is like 4. Like it goes on and on.

[Travis]

Hosting is a very underrated activity.

[Eric]

And if you don't crush that opening monologue.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

The place sets the tone.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And there's so many layers too where like you have to make a joke about everyone included and you have to take little digs. But also there's certain.

[Travis]

But not a Will Smith's wife.

[Eric]

Well, and there's, and there's also certain people where like it's their first Oscar nomination. So like you can't be me. Can't come across mean because then the audience will be defensive. It's just such a thankless thing. Yeah. I mean, yeah. James Franco and Anne Hathaway. That was. I don't see that people were not happy.

[Travis]

Livid.

[Eric]

But so it says the Academy pace hosts at near sag AFTRA scale rates, often costing them money after expenses like prep time and lost opportunities Elsewhere. For Conan O' Brien hosting the 2025 Oscars, the estimates align with Kimmel's $15,000 despite the event's massive production budget exceeding $38 million.

[Travis]

What? $38 million to produce the Oscars?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Travis]

That seems like a lot of wildly overpaid people.

[Eric]

I mean, but you also have like a live orchestra that's performing.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You have clothes, the gift bags that they're giving out, the. But 38 Dolby Studio set. I don't know.

[Travis]

Crazy work. Chris Rock to pay the most important piece of it 15 grand.

[Eric]

Right? I mean, yeah. So here's some quotes from people about the Oscars. Chris Rock quipped during his 2016 Oscars monologue, if they nominated hosts, I wouldn't even get this job. Y' all would be watching Neil and Patrick Harris right now. That wasn't funny. Bomb. Wanda Sykes called it one of her lowest paying jobs relative to effort. This one is actually going to cost you money. Like scale, probably. Jimmy Kimmel noted the intense workload. It's hard and it's a lot of work and the show suffers a little bit. I'm assuming he means his day to day. Yeah.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I mean, let's be honest. Jimmy Kimmel, the show's been Suffering a long time. Jimmy Kimmel. It's not good. No. You know what? What? I'm not a big Jimmy Kimmel fan, honestly.

[Travis]

Yeah, he's. His show is of the late night of the current late night host. Fallon is probably my. Is probably my favorite.

[Eric]

That is so millennial of you.

[Travis]

Yeah, it is. I'm a millennial, Eric. I don't know if you knew that.

[Eric]

No, but you know what? It doesn't matter. You know who has the best ice cream?

[Travis]

Ben and Jerry's.

[Eric]

Yes, but which host? Oh, because Fallon has ice cream.

[Travis]

Yeah, he does. Who else has ice cream?

[Eric]

Stephen Colbert. Americone Dream is the best ice cream ever made.

[Travis]

Wow. That's.

[Eric]

I went.

[Travis]

That is a really big statement. That's a hot take.

[Eric]

Can I tell you how good it is?

[Travis]

How good is it?

[Eric]

So good.

[Travis]

How good is it?

[Eric]

A. I got a hotel room the other day. It was so small.

[Travis]

How small was it?

[Eric]

I put the key in the door and I broke a lamp. Anyway, so, no, I was at whole foods about two months ago and they had. It was like $3 for the Ben and Jerry pints. Yeah. And I got nervous because Colbert's going off the air.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah.

[Eric]

And then I saw all of his ice cream was like 3 bucks. And I panic bought like 10 because I was like, if I can't get this again, we're in serious trouble.

[Travis]

Just a hoarding.

[Eric]

Yeah, but they. They're not getting rid of it. So I just had 10.

[Travis]

If it's a best selling skin, what's

[Eric]

funny is I was hoarding it and then that was gone in about 10 days. It's so good. So shout out Stephen Colbert and his ice cream. His ice cream. It's literally a.

[Travis]

Like, I liked Fallon's though the tonight dough.

[Eric]

It's fine, you know, it's fine.

[Travis]

But is it as good as half baked?

[Eric]

It's the best.

[Travis]

Okay, but have you had half baked?

[Eric]

Americone Dream is literally, you know, like those drumsticks that you get. Yeah, it's that blended. So it's literally. You take a bite and you get a little bit of cone, you get a little bit of chocolate, you get a little bit of caramel, you get a little bit of vanilla ice cream. You just licked your lips the way my dog does when I get cheese out of the fridge. Do you want this?

[Travis]

Yeah, we got it. Next. Next episode, we're taste testing Ben and Jerry's flavors.

[Eric]

Oh, my God, dude, that's gonna be good content for us.

[Travis]

For us only.

[Eric]

So. Yeah, so I guess it raises the question when it comes to opportunities, I mean, you're not going to get invited to host the Oscars, at least anytime soon. At least not in the next five years.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Safe to say we'll see how this shoot goes.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

That'd be crazy, huh? Next year they're like, wild turn. It really went well. And then you bomb at the Oscars and it ruins your career immediately. No. So when it comes to opportunities like this that are like, super high risk, potentially super high reward, but low monetary, like, yeah. You're practically investing yourself. Like, how should people determine if it's even worth taking a gig like that? And again, this is not the Oscars for everybody, unless for what you do. Yeah. I would say speaking at an event on a much smaller scale, putting out a book that you're basically paying to get out there. Like.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

What do you think people should weigh when it comes to opportunity like this? Because again, this could be a career ender. You botched the Oscars or you botched at a big convention.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Or you screw up. This book, you don't have to worry about because most people aren't going to read it. They're just going to buy it to be nice. What do you do? How do you weigh that out?

[Travis]

That's sort of like how you do, to me is sort of irrelevant. Like, when you're weighing the opportunity because you don't know how you're going to do. You just have to. You have to be willing to risk the embarrassment of potentially not doing well, but also prepare enough to do really well at the opportunity when it comes to. But in terms of doing things that are, you know, not well, paying, or they paid you almost nothing, or they paid. Or maybe you had to pay them or you had to cover your travel to get somewhere, the question is really how. What are the other ancillary benefits of doing this thing? Because obviously, speaking on the stage, there's, there's, there's the core benefit of speaking on stage, which is getting in front of the audience. But what are the ancillary benefits? Meaning, like, are. What's the speaker lineup look like? What's the size of the audience look like? Can you get great footage and pictures of you on stage that will allow you to land another stage at another time without having to cover your own travel expenses or something like that? Because I find that especially if you don't have a ton of credibility to stand on, then it could be a really good idea to basically take whatever opportunity that you can get because you're probably not going to be the one who's asked to come on. Probably not going to get your full speaking fee at first. But in order to be able to get that, at some point, you're going to need these big credibility, you know, pieces in your resume to make it easier for you to land the next podcast appearance or the next speaking gig or the next book deal or whatever. So. Or it could be the thing that helps you get a book, a book deal, because you can put on your resume like Oscars Host or whatever. You know, obviously not Oscars Host for people listening to this, but Ted Speaker. Yeah, you could put on your, on your resume that you've been booked at this stage with these types of speakers and like, do you get access to the green room where the other speakers are hanging out and you get to hang out with those speakers? You know what I mean? There's, there's other benefits, benefits to, to gain than just being in front of the audience.

[Eric]

Well, I told you I was working on a big pitch for something and, and the section that I think helped move it along was they're like, who would endorse this work? Yeah, and I just started writing and writing and writing like all these guests that I've had on my show that are like, actually have a lot of credibility and letters next to their name. We all have letters next to our name, letters after their name, like Ph.D. where they start with Dr. Period. Or it has, you know, all the other letters. I'm, I didn't even go to college enough to know all the letters that you can have. Sometimes I see a letter, I'm like, wow, that's a letter you can have. Interesting. And, but yeah, like, having that credibility boost is, is amazing.

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[Eric]

And I think it's important when you're looking at a big opportunity like this, whether it's hosting the Oscars or your local insurance seminar, there's, there's some ways it can go.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And I think of the immortal words of Kevin Nealon, who gave wisdom to Conan and I thought it was helpful to, to consider other projects going besides this podcast.

[Travis]

Yes, I'm hosting the Oscars.

[Eric]

Oh, by the way, congratulations on. I think I already texted you about that.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you said either it will, you

[Travis]

said this is a quote.

[Conan O'Brien]

It will either go well or it will go badly.

[Eric]

Both are distinct possibilities.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a, that's a quote.

[Eric]

Do you have other. Just keep that in mind.

[Travis]

But he's not wrong. Like, yeah, prep as much as you can. But you know, like, you can't worry about that when you're pursuing the opportunity. I guess is, is really the takeaway there. But I think, I think bottom line, I think people undermine or undervalue what credibility really means for their brand. And then they put themselves in this position and we dealt with this all the time and when we were booking people for podcasts is that people had this vision of themselves and had little to no self awareness around how the space actually works. And so they would think that they were worth, they were worthy of getting booked on the top podcasts that are out there when they're just not realizing that there is a huge discrepancy between you and the other types of people that are getting booked on these types of podcasts. And you're just going to have to start smaller, you know, and, and, and start building that credibility platform up so that you can get the invites for the other ones. But they wanted just to skip all the way to the top. And it's like, okay, well then, so then we would be like, okay, well, we can help you skip to the top if you want to. You're just gonna have to pay money to, you know, land a couple of these big shows and sponsor their shows so you can get booked on the show as a guest and then we can get you on these other shows. And they're like, well, I don't want to have to pay for it because I'm good enough. That you know, because of the value that I'm going to add to their audience, I shouldn't have to pay. And it's like, okay, but that's you, and that's a thousand other people that are also trying to book this one spot. It's not a matter of, like, it's not. It's not like you suck. It's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that, like, it's just a matter of numbers. They literally don't have the physical capacity to be able to bring on everybody who's got a good story. So yours has to be crazy unique, or you have to already have a large existing brand so that there's additional value for the host to bring you on their show. You know, like, you, you. If you don't have these credibility arms built out, then it can definitely be worth your time to actually have to come out of pocket, to put yourself in a position to be able to land that thing so that it can make it possible to get the next thing, rather than thinking that you just deserve everything because of your resume. It's like, well, probably is not going to happen, so start with something or be willing to come out of pocket. Like, it's sort of the whole, like, it's going to take time or money most of the time a combination of the two of them. You know what I mean? And some people are just like, you know, that that was the biggest. The thing that frustrated me was the value discrepancies. Like, you, you're way overvaluing the content that you're going to bring to this person's audience, when in reality you're thinking of it, what you're thinking about it from a what's in it for me perspective rather than a what's in it for them. Because the bottom line, especially as it relates to getting on podcasts in terms of like, quote, unquote, stages. If you're looking at podcasts, the thing that you have to understand is that the total number of active podcasts has not grown significantly over the last five or six years. But the total volume of people who are. Who have recognized that being booked on podcasts is a good thing for their brand is so high now that the competition to get booked on those same shows is so much greater than it was five or six years ago. So you're gonna have to bring something to the table other than I have a cool story. It's like, yeah, but like I said, if you're. Especially if you're targeting. Targeting the top 200 podcasts in existence. All of them have access to people with crazy stories. So you got to bring something else to the table. Like just exiting that company probably isn't enough. Just running a marathon probably isn't enough. Just having a bestseller probably isn't enough. You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's got to be something else that you're going to bring to the table here most of the time. Like, if you're thinking of what's going to benefit the host, the host wants more audience, they want more listeners, they want more eyeballs, they want more views, they want more attention on the final product, which, which is why the majority of podcasters are interviewing other people who have audiences already, because they're going to bring some of their existing audience to that host. So if you don't have any of that, then your story has to be crazy interesting or unique to make it past all the people who also have a crazy story and they have an audience of a million people that they're going to bring to the table. You know what I mean? So I guess just have a little bit of self awareness and understand the value discrepancy there and be willing just to, when you're getting started in this space, be willing to put the time in and start from the bottom in this new area, because it is a new area, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're less than, or that your story sucks or that your accomplishments are bad. It just means that in this new realm, you're starting from the bottom. So build the proper foundation. Sometimes be willing to come out of pocket if it means that. If it means that this, this event wants you to come speak, but they can't afford to pay for your travel or they can't afford your speaking fee, it's like, well, you can sit there and be like, well, I deserve my speaking fee. And it's like, okay, fine, that's, that's fine. If you want that, just understand you're probably not going to get a bunch of speaking gigs. You know what I mean? Like, we gotta, we gotta get you to be part of the circuit first. You got to get behind these closed doors, meet these event hosts, and start getting to know the other people who are speaking on all the stages that you want to speak at, you know, so get your foot in the door. However, you can say yes to the opportunity, and then eventually you'll be able to start getting enough inbound opportunities where then you can say no to ones that don't match. You know your, your, your criteria for saying yes, but at the beginning, just go do it even if it costs you a little bit of money because the credibility that you gain is definitely worth it.

[Eric]

I agree this was a big and juicy episode. But you know what else is big and juicy? The big arch burger from McDonald's that is sitting at your door for the last five minutes. I'm gonna go get it. But you go ahead and close out today's episode.

[Travis]

Well, that was.

[Eric]

I almost said close out today's episode of the Preacher Boys podcast. Close out today's episode of the Travis Makes Money podcast.

[Travis]

Well, that's it for this episode. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there. Hero that Travis makes your podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.