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[00:00]
A
You're listening to the Travis Makes Money Podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money Podcast, where it's a mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer, Eric is at studio. What's up, man?
[00:12]
B
My right armpit is profusely sweating and my left is completely dry.
[00:16]
A
That's very strange. Should get that checked.
[00:17]
B
So I saw a clip the other day with Ryan Holiday. I'm still working on Icebreakers, but I think that was a good one. I just like that it's the armpit that's closer to. Do you think this armpit's nervous because it knows it's close to the camera?
[00:28]
C
Probably.
[00:29]
B
It's like I gotta keep. Keep it together, Keep it together.
[00:31]
A
Most likely.
[00:32]
B
It's proverbially speaking. My armpit's locking its knees right now. It's gonna pass out any second. Did you. That is the dumb. Can I just say that that's the most beta thing ever? What if I can get alpha? If I can get alpha for just a minute. If you've ever been on stage and locked your knees and your body couldn't handle it and you passed out, that's beta.
[00:52]
A
Yeah, but isn't there something like physiological to that?
[00:55]
B
My physiology, I control. I am in control of my body.
[01:02]
A
Fair enough.
[01:03]
B
I just became all alphas at once. I was at Andrew Tate, Patrick Red, David, Luke Belmar. I put all of them together and that was the voice I just did.
[01:10]
A
Good job.
[01:11]
B
Thank you.
[01:12]
A
All right, and with no accent.
[01:14]
B
So here's Ryan Holiday on the Sean Ryan show, and he talks about a very specific issue within social media these days. So here we go.
[01:27]
C
There was this period where podcasts were long form interviews that subscribers of that podcast listened to. What's been happening in the last two years is like the clip economy. So that two hour conversation is distilled down into a 20 second clip or whatever. What that's doing is creating a lot of competition for, like the craziest clips. The extremeness of the emotion is like the number one predictor of virality. Something that makes you feel pretty good is not going to be shared as something that makes you extremely angry.
[01:54]
B
It's become like this lazy search for confirming your own biases, opinions and thoughts.
[01:59]
C
And there's always going to be someone who will fill that need. If you're not going to tell the audience what they want to hear, then they're just going to go watch this channel. And if that channel isn't going to do it, they're going to watch this channel. You're creating a market incentive for people to lie to you.
[02:15]
A
Big facts.
[02:16]
C
Disagree.
[02:17]
A
No, that's a hundred percent.
[02:19]
B
We should clip our reaction to this out of context and make people really mad.
[02:23]
A
Yeah. Just have.
[02:24]
B
What an idiot.
[02:25]
A
This is so not true. Honestly.
[02:27]
B
I saw a video.
[02:28]
A
Who's this dummy? On Sean Ryan's show.
[02:30]
B
I saw a video the other day and it was a. It was a apologist. And the video started with him getting like attacked at this table where he's talking about, like the Bible.
[02:41]
A
Attacked verbally?
[02:42]
B
No, like people were physically grabbing him and pulling him out of the table. Wow. And then at the end of the video, he's like, got you guys. These are my friends. We're doing that. And I was like, you just faked getting attacked for your hook.
[02:57]
A
I mean, but also.
[03:00]
B
Shout out. But also, you know, we should do that. You know what we should do?
[03:03]
A
We should strangle you.
[03:04]
C
Right.
[03:04]
B
What would actually be unironically. This would be a really good idea for a podcast. And just. This is off the dome and it's where the best ideas come from. You should. Your next podcast script a fake diary of the CEO style episode intro, which with like angry responses.
[03:20]
A
Yeah.
[03:20]
B
Where it's like the guest being like, I'm not talking about this. And like throw the mic down and leave, like, hook the whole thing.
[03:25]
C
Yeah.
[03:26]
B
And make it all fake and never show that in the episode at all.
[03:29]
A
It's just not even there.
[03:30]
B
Like, it's literally just like, talk to me about your dad. It's like, that's the one thing I said I wouldn't talk about. And they slam the mic down and leave and people watch all the way through and it never shows up.
[03:38]
A
Like, whoa.
[03:38]
B
Yeah, that would actually be really great.
[03:40]
A
That would. We need to find a good guest to do that with. You know, it'd be good for that. Bradley, Bradley. Bradley. Bradley Cooper.
[03:48]
B
Bradley Cooper.
[03:49]
A
Brad, stop Lee.
[03:52]
B
Wait, why? Why is Brad stopping Lee?
[03:56]
A
I hate you so much. But he would be good for that.
[03:59]
B
Yeah.
[04:00]
A
I'd text him.
[04:01]
B
He would do it. But the thing is, he would also say all the horrific things he had cut into a reel. Okay, so remember back when you started your show? Yes. And they used to get out like the old gramophone and they put the. You know, the big. Anyway, and when you started your show and there was actually people listening to long conversations before clips. Yeah, man, Is that crazy.
[04:21]
A
That's the whole thing.
[04:23]
B
That's my question. No. What do you think about this, though? Because people are Consuming. Let's address this from two angles. One, how do you curate what you're consuming without just being clip captured, where you watch something go like, I think I understand this now.
[04:37]
C
Yeah.
[04:38]
B
Because I think, I think it's the old thing. Was it you I was showing the article to or the comedian that was saying, you find out pretty quickly which of your friends just read articles or read the headlines of articles and then talk about situations like they read the article attached to it. I mean, how do you go about when you're navigating like the clips, weeding
[04:57]
A
out what's for people like us? I think it's a little bit different because we create stuff and I think that gives you the insight to recognize that this is part of a much broader conversation and it's impossible to take the entire meaning into a 32nd, you know, clip. So I, I tend, I mean at least, at least, you know, anecdotally, the way that I'm thinking about it, I tend to, I probably don't do as good of a job as I think I do, but I tend to not allow myself to formulate opinions from little clips that I see. I feel like unless I'm like, really? Unless I know a lot about the person talking already because I've consumed some longer form stuff and I see something short form and I'm like, okay, well I know that that's the person that they are because I've seen most of their other stuff. But like, especially first introduction, if I see somebody say something, it's like, well, what did they say before that? What was the question that led to that response? Who are they?
[05:50]
B
Why are they qualified to say that?
[05:51]
A
Because even some of the clips that we put out, like when, when, when you post a clip and then I see a comment that's something about how this makes no sense or something, and I'm like, okay, yeah, but when I saw that clip, I remembered the conversation ahead of time and I was like, that's a good point. Like we, that's a good post. Like, you know what I mean? This makes sense. And then somebody else sees just that one thing and didn't see the 25 minutes up to that one thing. And then they just write it off as like, well, this person's just dumb or stupid or whatever. And it's, it's objectively just a bad way to formulate opinions about things.
[06:26]
C
Right?
[06:27]
A
That, that was a kind of a book idea that I had in mind was something about the contextless world that we live in now because context matters. So Much like almost exclusively, context matters. Like even in the use of certain words, it's like, well, because Jackie was asking me the other day, she was like, is there like a word that if somebod called you that you would be like, that's like a no, no, you'd be really upset about it. And I was like, no, but any word used in a bad context would make me upset because the context, like somebody could call me stupid and it's my friend being like, you're stupid. And that's like, haha, okay, funny. But then if you meet a stranger and they're aggressively calling you stupid, then it's like, all right, well are we going to fight right now? What's going on? This is ridiculous.
[07:12]
B
I literally had this conversation with my daughter the other day because she was saying, she was saying about what was the word? There was some word and she's like, you know how that's like a bad word? But it wasn't a bad word, it was just something we've said like hey, don't say that because it doesn't sound polite when you're out. And so I was kind of explaining
[07:30]
A
like like a stupid or dumb or something.
[07:32]
B
Yeah it was. So the example I gave her though is like, I was like, it's like saying dang. I said dang isn't bad, but it's like something where you don't necessarily want to be a 8 year old that's walking around the store going like, oh, where's the dang? Whatever. I was like, it just doesn't sound polite all the time. But also like I don't really care if you say that. And then she was saying about like calling people bruh, you know, and. Cause like her cousin and them will be like, what's up bruh? You know, And I was like, that's fine with your cousin, but like I don't want you going into a teacher and being like, hey bruh, what are we doing? You know. So I was trying to explain and then it got into a longer conversation about saying stuff like oh you're this, or whatever the phrase was. And I said the words. I said there's some people that really care about words. And I said, it doesn't matter so much what the word is, it's what's your intent saying the word. So I could say. And I told her, I said, I can say if someone says oh, you're a goober. That could be mean. I said, but if I say oh, love you goober, I'm saying it In a kind way, like, you know, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. And that's something I think adults lose track of. Where it's like, I'm probably not saying this thing about you. I see this sometimes with someone will say something to their spouse, that their spouse and them always talk that way. And someone goes, I would never let my spouse talk to me like that. It's like, well, that's not your spouse. You know what I mean? There's a difference there. In a relationship belt, the way that you talk to me is straight up abusive and harassment. But I know that it comes from a place of romantic love,
[09:13]
A
you know, well, that, that.
[09:15]
B
Affirm that. Can you just affirm that for a moment?
[09:17]
A
No, I won't.
[09:18]
B
See, see how rude you are to me, but it doesn't hurt me.
[09:21]
A
Statistic about the percentage of communication that is the words that we say. And I've heard the, the way that I first read it was in, I think it was in Chris Voss's book. It was set the 73855 rule, which is that's it's 7% of communication is a word you say, 38% is tonality, 55% is body language. Regardless. I guess I've seen some like have debunked that decision.
[09:45]
B
Regardless of the percentage.
[09:47]
A
Exactly.
[09:47]
B
There's some anecdotal truth to that. Yeah.
[09:49]
A
And Even if it's 30, even if it's evenly split, it's still less than 50% the words that you say that are actually mattering. It's the body language that you have and the tonality that you use because the context of what you're saying genuinely matters. So the clip world that we live in is a contextless world where people just exclusively tune into short form only and then formulate entire opinions about really meaningful things like religion or politics or an opinion about somebody they used to hold in high regard and now they saw this clip and they no longer hold that person in high regard. And it's like you're making these snap decisions off of a 30 second clip that you saw that was a part of a 90 minute conversation. Like if you're going to allow yourself to make these types of negative opinions about people, at least do the work to watch the full thing. Or, or don't allow yourself to formulate the opinion yet. You know, at least be like, well, I saw this thing, but who knows, you know what I mean? Like I didn't see what they said before that I don't know. Like it could have sometimes you say something because of the story that was just told. You know, I mean, because I see this all the time, even in our own stuff where we talk for 25 minutes and then there's like a clip that we. That we post. And then even when I watch the clip, I go, like, I don't know if, like, I said that well, or like I. Like, like, that doesn't. Yeah, that doesn't actually. That doesn't really tell the whole story behind my real opinion about this. But the reason that I said it that way in that time was because there was a conversation leading up to that where it made sense for me to say it that way. And you know what I mean? Like, the, the what just happened does matter in, in terms of what is being said.
[11:39]
B
Well, I think that kind of segue, like that segues into the creation side, which is, you know, obviously when you're consuming, you should be aware. I mean, media literacy is something I could talk about all the time because it's so frustrating to me when I see people just, you know, just struggle with, I mean, just really basic understanding of what's happening and what's being said. And the amount of times I see will get mad about something where it's like, nobody even said that at all. But when you're creating, sometimes you'll say something in a way that sounds more biting than you're saying in the long form. And I clipping it go, oh, this is gonna do well. Cause people are gonna think that's polarizing. But I feel like I'm trying to thread a needle of, like, I don't want to be misrepresentative of what you're saying. I want it to be enough for them to go like, I wanna hear what he's saying. And I think sometimes people go like, it's the old saying, I forget who I heard it from first. Everybody steals it from everybody. But not all views are created equal. So it's like if you go online and you say, this racial group is terrible, you're gonna get a lot of views. You know what I mean? But it's one, hopefully you don't actually believe that. Two, it's like you got views at what cost? But on a lesser end of that, though, if you say something, I'm trying to think of an example recently, if you go. Recently did an interview with a trainer and he said, counting calories makes no sense to me. That's not something that's hateful and going to ruin someone's life. But it is something that Is controversial and polarizing and makes you go, well, I've always heard that this is the case. Let me look out and see why he's saying that. There's a real balance there in what you're picking. So how do you determine? Okay, hey, this is just polarizing for polarization's sake. And I'm gonna get views off of it versus, hey, this is something that, like, I think there's kind of a tough bite on it, that if someone follows me along this journey, they're gonna get value. I think that's the big piece there is like, is there value somewhere in this? And how far removed is the value from the content you're putting out? That's like just kind of crappy for attention's sake, you know?
[13:46]
A
Yeah, well, I think crappy is the
[13:48]
B
wrong word because in the extreme examples, crappy in the harsh or because I
[13:53]
A
think there are examples of people who put out crapp that they don't even believe for the sake.
[14:00]
B
Exactly.
[14:00]
A
Views on a tier like you watch inside the Manosphere and see what they say about like the, the one guy that was talking about Jews and then he said something like crazy, racially charged against Jewish people. And then the guy was like, you know, Louis Theroux was like, well, you know, this is a terrible thing to say. And he was like, well, I don't actually believe that. It was like, that's worse. Yeah, that's almost worse. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm maybe not objectively worse, but it's, it's, it might.
[14:28]
B
I mean, competitive.
[14:29]
A
You know what I mean?
[14:29]
B
Like being like, I'm a Nazi, right? As like clickbait.
[14:32]
C
Right?
[14:33]
B
Is. I don't know. I mean, that's.
[14:35]
A
Yeah, it's at least, at least competitive to be worse than actually being that way.
[14:40]
B
It's interesting you bring up that example. Why do you support genocide? Let's just really get some clips here.
[14:46]
A
I already have a clip of you saying you're a Nazi, so touche.
[14:50]
B
Maybe we should cut both of these things. 10 seconds, you're gonna be like, what's this 10 second 3 million view video that we just put out?
[15:00]
A
So I tend to like, because I know that the intention of our long form content is mostly to just educate people and try to do a good job of bringing useful information to the world. You know, to me it's like, well, our clips, you have to compete in that world. It's like you could decide to not do it and then just fade into obscurity. Or you do it and with the best like, to the best of your ability. And you know, if, frankly, if it weren't, if it weren't you running the accounts, I would have much more of a vested interest in making sure that everything that went out was like, I was watching carefully what was being said. But like, you've been working with me long enough now where it's like, I trust you.
[15:46]
B
I blocked you from all your accounts so you can't see.
[15:50]
A
So, yeah, in terms of being a creator, as long as you are comfortable with your intention and you, you stand by a lot of the things that are being said. Because sometimes a guest will say something that we post in a clip that I disagree with. You know what I mean? And I might even say that I disagree with it or might push back on it in the full interview. But we, the clip that we post doesn't have that additional context.
[16:12]
B
Right.
[16:13]
A
So it's like maybe, maybe think about what can you put in the caption? You know, so I'm a big fan. Defaulted to just putting a question. It's like if the guest says something that I even, like, I wouldn't agree with that. Then we just try to make sure that the caption is representative of that. To say something like, would you agree with this take or disagree with this take? Or here's my thoughts on this. Or here's what I've found. What do you think? You know what I mean? Like, I try to at least like, like let the guest breathe a little bit, even if it's something that I feel that I disagree with. But again, we're not talking about like insanely high stakes things on the show. Typically, you know, we're not, we're not deep diving into, you know, in depth religious or political topics. It's something about like, like what you said about counting calories or pcos as, you know, how it affects weight loss or things like that that are still controversial, but not to the degree where it's like, if somebody believes this, their life is going to be ruined.
[17:07]
C
Right.
[17:07]
A
So, but yeah, if you're not careful, man, you can get into this habit of just constantly formulating opinions without even realizing what you just watched.
[17:16]
B
Yeah.
[17:16]
A
When, when Michael Smoke was on last time, he talked about this, like, small thing that happened on one of his videos where he posted it saying something about like, as, as a stat, most people that have college degrees are going to be more successful in life, which is an irrefutable statistic. It is just the truth.
[17:37]
B
Yeah.
[17:37]
A
That if you have a college degree, you will probably do better based on these certain markers that were measured over a very long period of time with multiple studies. And he, like, on the video, I said most people and referenced the data. And then somebody on the video comments about like, well, I didn't go to college and I didn't have. And he was like, idiot. That's why I said most. That's why I said the data. That's why I used these words on purpose. Because I obviously know there's plenty of examples of people who didn't go to college who are wildly successful. Nor did I say that you have to go to college in order to be successful. I was just simply saying that if you're considering it, this is something to take into that consideration, which is that most people will have a. Will be more likely to have a better outcome if they get a degree versus not getting a degree.
[18:24]
B
He immediately showed that he clearly isn't college educated.
[18:27]
A
Exactly.
[18:28]
B
Yeah. Or I say that as someone that didn't go to college. But no, I'm a big fan when posting clips of guests saying so and so says this, do you agree or disagree? But the other thing I was going to say too on that was it's really funny to me when you post something and somebody goes like, oh, like you'll post something that's like, broadly true. And someone will go like, on the exception of that, like the example you just said. And my default response to them always on my content is, if this isn't about you, it's not about you. Because it's literally just like, if I say churches do this and they go like, my church doesn't do that. It's like, well, this isn't about you and this should not bother you because it's not about you. And I think a lot of times people do that with weight loss stuff with the, you know, it's like, there's people that abuse GLP1s. There's a lot of people that don't, and they use it in a really great way, you know, and so it's like, if it's not about you, it's not about you. And I think even when it comes to, like, the outreach side, like, to go full circle, it's like even watching a clip where it's like, well, this. I haven't found this to be true. It's like, well, it's probably not talking about you. And if it is talking about the thing you think, or, you know, maybe this content's not for you, you know, like, it's just there's a lot healthier ways to kind of parse through that stuff as a creator and a consumer.
[19:45]
C
Yeah.
[19:45]
A
So to me it's like try to discipline yourself to some degree to consume long form and like make yourself do it just as an exercise, you know, even if it's like a movie, you know what I mean? Like something that just, you have to. Something that holds your attention for a couple of hours at a time, whether it's a podcast episode, a YouTube video or a film. Like just try to engage in that a little bit more.
[20:11]
B
Yeah.
[20:11]
A
And then, because it can be helpful to see, because you could watch a full whole two hour podcast conversation and then you might even see a clip that circulates online where it's getting a bunch of vitriol in the comments about this thing that was said. And then you read the comments and go, well, that wasn't the intention behind what he was saying at all. So let me allow that to be a reminder for the next time I see something that's used in a short form context and I have no other idea of what was being said ahead of time. You know what I mean? It, it's difficult because from a, from the creator perspective, it's like we, we gotta post clips. You know, like we posted one and on TikTok the other day and this guy said something on there about, well, this isn't, you know, apply in these situations and you're not giving the whole story. And I was like, of course we're not giving. It's a 40 second clip of we literally do not have the time.
[21:12]
B
By definition, a short form video is usually lacking context.
[21:16]
A
Exactly.
[21:16]
B
It's all out of context.
[21:17]
A
Exactly. So he was, well, maybe don't post the clip is what was his response. And I was like, you shouldn't consume stuff on TikTok. You know what I mean? Like, everything that's on here is contextless. That is the entire like idea of the platform, which took hold unfortunately, because that's what people wanted.
[21:39]
B
Yeah.
[21:40]
A
Which made all other algorithms do exactly the same thing.
[21:44]
B
Yeah.
[21:44]
A
You know what I mean? Like Instagram didn't have reels five, six years, maybe five years ago, but like seven years ago they didn't have reels. There was no reels on Facebook, there were no YouTube shorts. You know, none of that stuff existed. It's because consumers, like this guy told the algorithm, that's what they like. So every algorithm changed to support that version of content consumption. So if you.
[22:06]
B
The good news is it's starting to shift back the other way.
[22:08]
A
You think so?
[22:09]
B
Well, I've been watching a lot about this lately. One, I'm just, I'm blown away. Like, things like substack have taken off the way they have and people are reading full articles and stuff now. Some are probably still reading the headlines and figuring out something from that. But even the pivot to like, I was watching a video like YouTube is introducing, they're rebranding one of their playlist tabs to be called shows. So it's like, you know, they're really pushing episodic content. The rise of like yap content. Like Michael Smoke talks about where it's like a four or five minute video that people are watching. It's like, here's me. It feels like we're. People are getting fatigued with actually maybe it. I forget who it was I was watching. But they were saying you consume short form videos yesterday. Like, I know that's a fact. Try to think of one short form video you watched yesterday. Like think. Think about yesterday. Can you remember one single short video?
[23:01]
C
No.
[23:01]
B
And you probably watched 200 or 300.
[23:04]
A
And I probably sent a bunch of them to friends in group chats.
[23:07]
B
Yeah, like, I literally, I mean, I literally sent you something today and you referenced it like 20 minutes later when I got to your house and I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And that's how quickly we're consuming information where nothing's sticking. And I feel like people are. I know I'm getting tired of that. To where it's like, how do I engage with the one thing? Like instead of listening to three podcasts at 2x speed, can I listen at a normal speed and get five takeaways from this? Great. And I feel like that same way in my contents, I was thinking about that I was putting together one of my recent videos. I'm like, like, if someone watches this, is it just like, oh, okay. Or is it something where it's like, here's something that they can walk away with as, like, here's the thing I took from this. That's valuable because it's just so easy to just go like, I'm churning out content or I just want to doom scroll and watch stuff. And like, neither of those are helping. And I do hope we're kind of shifting away from that. But same speaking of long form content, we're over our time.
[24:03]
A
Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Thanks for tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Money in the bank, so let's start there. Here on the Traps Makes Money podcast. Catch you next time. Peace.

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Thinking Beyond the Clip Economy
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest/Producer: Eric
Date: August 1, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into how the current "clip economy" of short, viral video content impacts our thinking, the importance of context in forming opinions, and practical tips for both creators and consumers to avoid falling into the trap of surface-level content. Travis and his producer Eric discuss the rise of short-form clips, their own experiences as both creators and viewers, and ways listeners can cultivate deeper understanding and healthier media habits without missing out on life or the changing content landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is the Clip Economy? (00:13–01:54)

Catalyst: Eric introduces a Ryan Holiday clip critiquing the shift from long-form to "clip" content.
Summary: Instead of engaging with hours-long podcasts, audiences increasingly interact with 20-30 second clips, driving competition for extreme, polarizing content as virality relies more on emotional reaction than nuance.
Quote:

"The extremeness of the emotion is like the number one predictor of virality. Something that makes you feel pretty good is not going to be shared as something that makes you extremely angry." — Ryan Holiday (01:42)

2. Confirmation Bias and Market Incentives (01:54–02:14)

The rise of bite-sized content encourages laziness in opinion formation and incentivizes creators to provide whatever confirmation their audience seeks, even if it's inaccurate or misleading.
Quote:

“You're creating a market incentive for people to lie to you.” — Ryan Holiday (02:08)

3. The Downside of Clips: Faked Drama and Out-of-Context Hooks (02:27–03:39)

Eric recounts seeing intentionally faked dramatic hooks for content and suggests mischievously scripting similar hooks for the podcast to mimic current trends.
The group discusses how this manipulates viewer expectations and attention.
Memorable moment:

“Script a fake Diary of a CEO style episode intro... Make it all fake and never show that in the episode at all.” — Eric (03:04)

4. Consumer Responsibility: Handling Context Deficiency (04:22–07:02)

Travis emphasizes the necessity of knowing the full story before forming opinions on someone or something seen in a short-form clip.
Creators understand context is missing, but most consumers often forget or never see the bigger picture.
Quote:

“It's impossible to take the entire meaning into a 30 second... clip.” — Travis (04:56)
On using context:

“Context matters. So much, like almost exclusively, context matters.” — Travis (06:26)
Eric applies this insight to parenting:

“It doesn't matter so much what the word is, it's what's your intent saying the word.” — Eric (07:35)

5. How Words, Tone, and Body Language Shape Meaning (09:13–09:47)

Citing Chris Voss, Travis underscores that words convey a minority of meaning—tone and body language provide most context.
Quote:

“7% of communication is a word you say, 38% is tonality, 55% is body language... context genuinely matters.” — Travis (09:20)

6. Creators’ Dilemma: Balancing Truth and Virality (11:38–14:34)

Eric and Travis discuss the challenge of producing content that gets views without sacrificing depth or accurate representation.
They take issue with creators who pursue polarizing and even false headlines just for engagement.
Quote:

“Not all views are created equal. So it's like if you go online and you say, this racial group is terrible, you're gonna get a lot of views... but you got views at what cost?” — Eric (12:15)

7. Intention and Responsibility in Content Creation (15:00–16:17)

Travis admits creators may need to play the clip game to survive but should do so responsibly, adding captions/questions for clarity and not distorting a guest’s message.
The importance of only posting content they broadly endorse or, if controversial, making clear their stance in the caption.
Quote:

“As long as you are comfortable with your intention and you, you stand by a lot of the things that are being said...” — Travis (15:49)

8. How to Address Misinterpretation and Out-of-Context Reactions (17:16–18:41)

Anecdote about Michael Smoke's experience with discussing college education statistics and people responding with anecdotal objections not relevant to the general point.
Eric’s go-to advice:

“If this isn't about you, it's not about you.” — Eric (18:27)

9. Advice for Consumers: Seek Long-Form Content (19:44–21:39)

Advocates for disciplining oneself to occasionally consume long-form content—podcasts, movies, in-depth articles—to develop focus and critical thinking.
Observes that short-form rarely leaves a lasting impression (contrast: can’t remember individual shorts, but can recall insights from long-form).
Quote:

“Try to discipline yourself to some degree to consume long form and like make yourself do it just as an exercise...” — Travis (19:44)

10. The Algorithm Shift: Are We Coming Full Circle? (21:43–23:47)

Eric notes signs of a shift back toward longer content: the growth of newsletters (Substack), episodic content, and the rising popularity of "yap" (4-5 minute) videos.
By contrast, traditional endless short-form consumption is increasingly unsatisfying.
Quote:

“Try to think of one short form video you watched yesterday... Can you remember one single short video?” — Eric (22:58)

“You probably watched 200 or 300.” — Travis (23:01)

Notable Quotes and Moments

“The extremeness of the emotion is like the number one predictor of virality.” — Ryan Holiday (01:42)
“You're creating a market incentive for people to lie to you.” — Ryan Holiday (02:08)
“It's impossible to take the entire meaning into a 30 second... clip.” — Travis (04:56)
“Context matters. So much, like almost exclusively, context matters.” — Travis (06:26)
“Not all views are created equal. You got views at what cost?” — Eric (12:15)
“If this isn't about you, it's not about you.” — Eric (18:27)
“Try to discipline yourself to some degree to consume long form and make yourself do it just as an exercise...” — Travis (19:44)
“Can you remember one single short video?... You probably watched 200 or 300.” — Eric & Travis (22:58–23:01)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:13 — Clip economy critique starts (Ryan Holiday)
01:54 — The pursuit of emotional/polarizing clips
03:04 — How creators fake drama for hooks
04:22 — Discussing dangers of contextless consumption
06:26 — The critical importance of context
09:20 — Words vs. body language in communication
11:38 — Challenges for creators: views vs. truth
15:00 — Intention in clip selection and captioning
17:16 — Case study: College stats & common misinterpretations
19:44 — Advocating for long-form content consumption
21:43 — The shifting algorithm and return to long-form
22:58 — Are short clips even memorable?

Final Takeaways

As a consumer: Actively seek context, question snap judgments, and occasionally slow down with long-form content to build true understanding.
As a creator: Compete in the clip economy if you must, but do so ethically—prioritize honest, value-rich content and avoid misleading edits.
For everyone: Recognize how the algorithm shapes what we see and think, and be intentional about what you consume and share.

Loading summary

Transcript122 lines

[00:00]
A
You're listening to the Travis Makes Money Podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money Podcast, where it's a mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer, Eric is at studio. What's up, man?
[00:12]
B
My right armpit is profusely sweating and my left is completely dry.
[00:16]
A
That's very strange. Should get that checked.
[00:17]
B
So I saw a clip the other day with Ryan Holiday. I'm still working on Icebreakers, but I think that was a good one. I just like that it's the armpit that's closer to. Do you think this armpit's nervous because it knows it's close to the camera?
[00:28]
C
Probably.
[00:29]
B
It's like I gotta keep. Keep it together, Keep it together.
[00:31]
A
Most likely.
[00:32]
B
It's proverbially speaking. My armpit's locking its knees right now. It's gonna pass out any second. Did you. That is the dumb. Can I just say that that's the most beta thing ever? What if I can get alpha? If I can get alpha for just a minute. If you've ever been on stage and locked your knees and your body couldn't handle it and you passed out, that's beta.
[00:52]
A
Yeah, but isn't there something like physiological to that?
[00:55]
B
My physiology, I control. I am in control of my body.
[01:02]
A
Fair enough.
[01:03]
B
I just became all alphas at once. I was at Andrew Tate, Patrick Red, David, Luke Belmar. I put all of them together and that was the voice I just did.
[01:10]
A
Good job.
[01:11]
B
Thank you.
[01:12]
A
All right, and with no accent.
[01:14]
B
So here's Ryan Holiday on the Sean Ryan show, and he talks about a very specific issue within social media these days. So here we go.
[01:27]
C
There was this period where podcasts were long form interviews that subscribers of that podcast listened to. What's been happening in the last two years is like the clip economy. So that two hour conversation is distilled down into a 20 second clip or whatever. What that's doing is creating a lot of competition for, like the craziest clips. The extremeness of the emotion is like the number one predictor of virality. Something that makes you feel pretty good is not going to be shared as something that makes you extremely angry.
[01:54]
B
It's become like this lazy search for confirming your own biases, opinions and thoughts.
[01:59]
C
And there's always going to be someone who will fill that need. If you're not going to tell the audience what they want to hear, then they're just going to go watch this channel. And if that channel isn't going to do it, they're going to watch this channel. You're creating a market incentive for people to lie to you.
[02:15]
A
Big facts.
[02:16]
C
Disagree.
[02:17]
A
No, that's a hundred percent.
[02:19]
B
We should clip our reaction to this out of context and make people really mad.
[02:23]
A
Yeah. Just have.
[02:24]
B
What an idiot.
[02:25]
A
This is so not true. Honestly.
[02:27]
B
I saw a video.
[02:28]
A
Who's this dummy? On Sean Ryan's show.
[02:30]
B
I saw a video the other day and it was a. It was a apologist. And the video started with him getting like attacked at this table where he's talking about, like the Bible.
[02:41]
A
Attacked verbally?
[02:42]
B
No, like people were physically grabbing him and pulling him out of the table. Wow. And then at the end of the video, he's like, got you guys. These are my friends. We're doing that. And I was like, you just faked getting attacked for your hook.
[02:57]
A
I mean, but also.
[03:00]
B
Shout out. But also, you know, we should do that. You know what we should do?
[03:03]
A
We should strangle you.
[03:04]
C
Right.
[03:04]
B
What would actually be unironically. This would be a really good idea for a podcast. And just. This is off the dome and it's where the best ideas come from. You should. Your next podcast script a fake diary of the CEO style episode intro, which with like angry responses.
[03:20]
A
Yeah.
[03:20]
B
Where it's like the guest being like, I'm not talking about this. And like throw the mic down and leave, like, hook the whole thing.
[03:25]
C
Yeah.
[03:26]
B
And make it all fake and never show that in the episode at all.
[03:29]
A
It's just not even there.
[03:30]
B
Like, it's literally just like, talk to me about your dad. It's like, that's the one thing I said I wouldn't talk about. And they slam the mic down and leave and people watch all the way through and it never shows up.
[03:38]
A
Like, whoa.
[03:38]
B
Yeah, that would actually be really great.
[03:40]
A
That would. We need to find a good guest to do that with. You know, it'd be good for that. Bradley, Bradley. Bradley. Bradley Cooper.
[03:48]
B
Bradley Cooper.
[03:49]
A
Brad, stop Lee.
[03:52]
B
Wait, why? Why is Brad stopping Lee?
[03:56]
A
I hate you so much. But he would be good for that.
[03:59]
B
Yeah.
[04:00]
A
I'd text him.
[04:01]
B
He would do it. But the thing is, he would also say all the horrific things he had cut into a reel. Okay, so remember back when you started your show? Yes. And they used to get out like the old gramophone and they put the. You know, the big. Anyway, and when you started your show and there was actually people listening to long conversations before clips. Yeah, man, Is that crazy.
[04:21]
A
That's the whole thing.
[04:23]
B
That's my question. No. What do you think about this, though? Because people are Consuming. Let's address this from two angles. One, how do you curate what you're consuming without just being clip captured, where you watch something go like, I think I understand this now.
[04:37]
C
Yeah.
[04:38]
B
Because I think, I think it's the old thing. Was it you I was showing the article to or the comedian that was saying, you find out pretty quickly which of your friends just read articles or read the headlines of articles and then talk about situations like they read the article attached to it. I mean, how do you go about when you're navigating like the clips, weeding
[04:57]
A
out what's for people like us? I think it's a little bit different because we create stuff and I think that gives you the insight to recognize that this is part of a much broader conversation and it's impossible to take the entire meaning into a 32nd, you know, clip. So I, I tend, I mean at least, at least, you know, anecdotally, the way that I'm thinking about it, I tend to, I probably don't do as good of a job as I think I do, but I tend to not allow myself to formulate opinions from little clips that I see. I feel like unless I'm like, really? Unless I know a lot about the person talking already because I've consumed some longer form stuff and I see something short form and I'm like, okay, well I know that that's the person that they are because I've seen most of their other stuff. But like, especially first introduction, if I see somebody say something, it's like, well, what did they say before that? What was the question that led to that response? Who are they?
[05:50]
B
Why are they qualified to say that?
[05:51]
A
Because even some of the clips that we put out, like when, when, when you post a clip and then I see a comment that's something about how this makes no sense or something, and I'm like, okay, yeah, but when I saw that clip, I remembered the conversation ahead of time and I was like, that's a good point. Like we, that's a good post. Like, you know what I mean? This makes sense. And then somebody else sees just that one thing and didn't see the 25 minutes up to that one thing. And then they just write it off as like, well, this person's just dumb or stupid or whatever. And it's, it's objectively just a bad way to formulate opinions about things.
[06:26]
C
Right?
[06:27]
A
That, that was a kind of a book idea that I had in mind was something about the contextless world that we live in now because context matters. So Much like almost exclusively, context matters. Like even in the use of certain words, it's like, well, because Jackie was asking me the other day, she was like, is there like a word that if somebod called you that you would be like, that's like a no, no, you'd be really upset about it. And I was like, no, but any word used in a bad context would make me upset because the context, like somebody could call me stupid and it's my friend being like, you're stupid. And that's like, haha, okay, funny. But then if you meet a stranger and they're aggressively calling you stupid, then it's like, all right, well are we going to fight right now? What's going on? This is ridiculous.
[07:12]
B
I literally had this conversation with my daughter the other day because she was saying, she was saying about what was the word? There was some word and she's like, you know how that's like a bad word? But it wasn't a bad word, it was just something we've said like hey, don't say that because it doesn't sound polite when you're out. And so I was kind of explaining
[07:30]
A
like like a stupid or dumb or something.
[07:32]
B
Yeah it was. So the example I gave her though is like, I was like, it's like saying dang. I said dang isn't bad, but it's like something where you don't necessarily want to be a 8 year old that's walking around the store going like, oh, where's the dang? Whatever. I was like, it just doesn't sound polite all the time. But also like I don't really care if you say that. And then she was saying about like calling people bruh, you know, and. Cause like her cousin and them will be like, what's up bruh? You know, And I was like, that's fine with your cousin, but like I don't want you going into a teacher and being like, hey bruh, what are we doing? You know. So I was trying to explain and then it got into a longer conversation about saying stuff like oh you're this, or whatever the phrase was. And I said the words. I said there's some people that really care about words. And I said, it doesn't matter so much what the word is, it's what's your intent saying the word. So I could say. And I told her, I said, I can say if someone says oh, you're a goober. That could be mean. I said, but if I say oh, love you goober, I'm saying it In a kind way, like, you know, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. And that's something I think adults lose track of. Where it's like, I'm probably not saying this thing about you. I see this sometimes with someone will say something to their spouse, that their spouse and them always talk that way. And someone goes, I would never let my spouse talk to me like that. It's like, well, that's not your spouse. You know what I mean? There's a difference there. In a relationship belt, the way that you talk to me is straight up abusive and harassment. But I know that it comes from a place of romantic love,
[09:13]
A
you know, well, that, that.
[09:15]
B
Affirm that. Can you just affirm that for a moment?
[09:17]
A
No, I won't.
[09:18]
B
See, see how rude you are to me, but it doesn't hurt me.
[09:21]
A
Statistic about the percentage of communication that is the words that we say. And I've heard the, the way that I first read it was in, I think it was in Chris Voss's book. It was set the 73855 rule, which is that's it's 7% of communication is a word you say, 38% is tonality, 55% is body language. Regardless. I guess I've seen some like have debunked that decision.
[09:45]
B
Regardless of the percentage.
[09:47]
A
Exactly.
[09:47]
B
There's some anecdotal truth to that. Yeah.
[09:49]
A
And Even if it's 30, even if it's evenly split, it's still less than 50% the words that you say that are actually mattering. It's the body language that you have and the tonality that you use because the context of what you're saying genuinely matters. So the clip world that we live in is a contextless world where people just exclusively tune into short form only and then formulate entire opinions about really meaningful things like religion or politics or an opinion about somebody they used to hold in high regard and now they saw this clip and they no longer hold that person in high regard. And it's like you're making these snap decisions off of a 30 second clip that you saw that was a part of a 90 minute conversation. Like if you're going to allow yourself to make these types of negative opinions about people, at least do the work to watch the full thing. Or, or don't allow yourself to formulate the opinion yet. You know, at least be like, well, I saw this thing, but who knows, you know what I mean? Like I didn't see what they said before that I don't know. Like it could have sometimes you say something because of the story that was just told. You know, I mean, because I see this all the time, even in our own stuff where we talk for 25 minutes and then there's like a clip that we. That we post. And then even when I watch the clip, I go, like, I don't know if, like, I said that well, or like I. Like, like, that doesn't. Yeah, that doesn't actually. That doesn't really tell the whole story behind my real opinion about this. But the reason that I said it that way in that time was because there was a conversation leading up to that where it made sense for me to say it that way. And you know what I mean? Like, the, the what just happened does matter in, in terms of what is being said.
[11:39]
B
Well, I think that kind of segue, like that segues into the creation side, which is, you know, obviously when you're consuming, you should be aware. I mean, media literacy is something I could talk about all the time because it's so frustrating to me when I see people just, you know, just struggle with, I mean, just really basic understanding of what's happening and what's being said. And the amount of times I see will get mad about something where it's like, nobody even said that at all. But when you're creating, sometimes you'll say something in a way that sounds more biting than you're saying in the long form. And I clipping it go, oh, this is gonna do well. Cause people are gonna think that's polarizing. But I feel like I'm trying to thread a needle of, like, I don't want to be misrepresentative of what you're saying. I want it to be enough for them to go like, I wanna hear what he's saying. And I think sometimes people go like, it's the old saying, I forget who I heard it from first. Everybody steals it from everybody. But not all views are created equal. So it's like if you go online and you say, this racial group is terrible, you're gonna get a lot of views. You know what I mean? But it's one, hopefully you don't actually believe that. Two, it's like you got views at what cost? But on a lesser end of that, though, if you say something, I'm trying to think of an example recently, if you go. Recently did an interview with a trainer and he said, counting calories makes no sense to me. That's not something that's hateful and going to ruin someone's life. But it is something that Is controversial and polarizing and makes you go, well, I've always heard that this is the case. Let me look out and see why he's saying that. There's a real balance there in what you're picking. So how do you determine? Okay, hey, this is just polarizing for polarization's sake. And I'm gonna get views off of it versus, hey, this is something that, like, I think there's kind of a tough bite on it, that if someone follows me along this journey, they're gonna get value. I think that's the big piece there is like, is there value somewhere in this? And how far removed is the value from the content you're putting out? That's like just kind of crappy for attention's sake, you know?
[13:46]
A
Yeah, well, I think crappy is the
[13:48]
B
wrong word because in the extreme examples, crappy in the harsh or because I
[13:53]
A
think there are examples of people who put out crapp that they don't even believe for the sake.
[14:00]
B
Exactly.
[14:00]
A
Views on a tier like you watch inside the Manosphere and see what they say about like the, the one guy that was talking about Jews and then he said something like crazy, racially charged against Jewish people. And then the guy was like, you know, Louis Theroux was like, well, you know, this is a terrible thing to say. And he was like, well, I don't actually believe that. It was like, that's worse. Yeah, that's almost worse. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm maybe not objectively worse, but it's, it's, it might.
[14:28]
B
I mean, competitive.
[14:29]
A
You know what I mean?
[14:29]
B
Like being like, I'm a Nazi, right? As like clickbait.
[14:32]
C
Right?
[14:33]
B
Is. I don't know. I mean, that's.
[14:35]
A
Yeah, it's at least, at least competitive to be worse than actually being that way.
[14:40]
B
It's interesting you bring up that example. Why do you support genocide? Let's just really get some clips here.
[14:46]
A
I already have a clip of you saying you're a Nazi, so touche.
[14:50]
B
Maybe we should cut both of these things. 10 seconds, you're gonna be like, what's this 10 second 3 million view video that we just put out?
[15:00]
A
So I tend to like, because I know that the intention of our long form content is mostly to just educate people and try to do a good job of bringing useful information to the world. You know, to me it's like, well, our clips, you have to compete in that world. It's like you could decide to not do it and then just fade into obscurity. Or you do it and with the best like, to the best of your ability. And you know, if, frankly, if it weren't, if it weren't you running the accounts, I would have much more of a vested interest in making sure that everything that went out was like, I was watching carefully what was being said. But like, you've been working with me long enough now where it's like, I trust you.
[15:46]
B
I blocked you from all your accounts so you can't see.
[15:50]
A
So, yeah, in terms of being a creator, as long as you are comfortable with your intention and you, you stand by a lot of the things that are being said. Because sometimes a guest will say something that we post in a clip that I disagree with. You know what I mean? And I might even say that I disagree with it or might push back on it in the full interview. But we, the clip that we post doesn't have that additional context.
[16:12]
B
Right.
[16:13]
A
So it's like maybe, maybe think about what can you put in the caption? You know, so I'm a big fan. Defaulted to just putting a question. It's like if the guest says something that I even, like, I wouldn't agree with that. Then we just try to make sure that the caption is representative of that. To say something like, would you agree with this take or disagree with this take? Or here's my thoughts on this. Or here's what I've found. What do you think? You know what I mean? Like, I try to at least like, like let the guest breathe a little bit, even if it's something that I feel that I disagree with. But again, we're not talking about like insanely high stakes things on the show. Typically, you know, we're not, we're not deep diving into, you know, in depth religious or political topics. It's something about like, like what you said about counting calories or pcos as, you know, how it affects weight loss or things like that that are still controversial, but not to the degree where it's like, if somebody believes this, their life is going to be ruined.
[17:07]
C
Right.
[17:07]
A
So, but yeah, if you're not careful, man, you can get into this habit of just constantly formulating opinions without even realizing what you just watched.
[17:16]
B
Yeah.
[17:16]
A
When, when Michael Smoke was on last time, he talked about this, like, small thing that happened on one of his videos where he posted it saying something about like, as, as a stat, most people that have college degrees are going to be more successful in life, which is an irrefutable statistic. It is just the truth.
[17:37]
B
Yeah.
[17:37]
A
That if you have a college degree, you will probably do better based on these certain markers that were measured over a very long period of time with multiple studies. And he, like, on the video, I said most people and referenced the data. And then somebody on the video comments about like, well, I didn't go to college and I didn't have. And he was like, idiot. That's why I said most. That's why I said the data. That's why I used these words on purpose. Because I obviously know there's plenty of examples of people who didn't go to college who are wildly successful. Nor did I say that you have to go to college in order to be successful. I was just simply saying that if you're considering it, this is something to take into that consideration, which is that most people will have a. Will be more likely to have a better outcome if they get a degree versus not getting a degree.
[18:24]
B
He immediately showed that he clearly isn't college educated.
[18:27]
A
Exactly.
[18:28]
B
Yeah. Or I say that as someone that didn't go to college. But no, I'm a big fan when posting clips of guests saying so and so says this, do you agree or disagree? But the other thing I was going to say too on that was it's really funny to me when you post something and somebody goes like, oh, like you'll post something that's like, broadly true. And someone will go like, on the exception of that, like the example you just said. And my default response to them always on my content is, if this isn't about you, it's not about you. Because it's literally just like, if I say churches do this and they go like, my church doesn't do that. It's like, well, this isn't about you and this should not bother you because it's not about you. And I think a lot of times people do that with weight loss stuff with the, you know, it's like, there's people that abuse GLP1s. There's a lot of people that don't, and they use it in a really great way, you know, and so it's like, if it's not about you, it's not about you. And I think even when it comes to, like, the outreach side, like, to go full circle, it's like even watching a clip where it's like, well, this. I haven't found this to be true. It's like, well, it's probably not talking about you. And if it is talking about the thing you think, or, you know, maybe this content's not for you, you know, like, it's just there's a lot healthier ways to kind of parse through that stuff as a creator and a consumer.
[19:45]
C
Yeah.
[19:45]
A
So to me it's like try to discipline yourself to some degree to consume long form and like make yourself do it just as an exercise, you know, even if it's like a movie, you know what I mean? Like something that just, you have to. Something that holds your attention for a couple of hours at a time, whether it's a podcast episode, a YouTube video or a film. Like just try to engage in that a little bit more.
[20:11]
B
Yeah.
[20:11]
A
And then, because it can be helpful to see, because you could watch a full whole two hour podcast conversation and then you might even see a clip that circulates online where it's getting a bunch of vitriol in the comments about this thing that was said. And then you read the comments and go, well, that wasn't the intention behind what he was saying at all. So let me allow that to be a reminder for the next time I see something that's used in a short form context and I have no other idea of what was being said ahead of time. You know what I mean? It, it's difficult because from a, from the creator perspective, it's like we, we gotta post clips. You know, like we posted one and on TikTok the other day and this guy said something on there about, well, this isn't, you know, apply in these situations and you're not giving the whole story. And I was like, of course we're not giving. It's a 40 second clip of we literally do not have the time.
[21:12]
B
By definition, a short form video is usually lacking context.
[21:16]
A
Exactly.
[21:16]
B
It's all out of context.
[21:17]
A
Exactly. So he was, well, maybe don't post the clip is what was his response. And I was like, you shouldn't consume stuff on TikTok. You know what I mean? Like, everything that's on here is contextless. That is the entire like idea of the platform, which took hold unfortunately, because that's what people wanted.
[21:39]
B
Yeah.
[21:40]
A
Which made all other algorithms do exactly the same thing.
[21:44]
B
Yeah.
[21:44]
A
You know what I mean? Like Instagram didn't have reels five, six years, maybe five years ago, but like seven years ago they didn't have reels. There was no reels on Facebook, there were no YouTube shorts. You know, none of that stuff existed. It's because consumers, like this guy told the algorithm, that's what they like. So every algorithm changed to support that version of content consumption. So if you.
[22:06]
B
The good news is it's starting to shift back the other way.
[22:08]
A
You think so?
[22:09]
B
Well, I've been watching a lot about this lately. One, I'm just, I'm blown away. Like, things like substack have taken off the way they have and people are reading full articles and stuff now. Some are probably still reading the headlines and figuring out something from that. But even the pivot to like, I was watching a video like YouTube is introducing, they're rebranding one of their playlist tabs to be called shows. So it's like, you know, they're really pushing episodic content. The rise of like yap content. Like Michael Smoke talks about where it's like a four or five minute video that people are watching. It's like, here's me. It feels like we're. People are getting fatigued with actually maybe it. I forget who it was I was watching. But they were saying you consume short form videos yesterday. Like, I know that's a fact. Try to think of one short form video you watched yesterday. Like think. Think about yesterday. Can you remember one single short video?
[23:01]
C
No.
[23:01]
B
And you probably watched 200 or 300.
[23:04]
A
And I probably sent a bunch of them to friends in group chats.
[23:07]
B
Yeah, like, I literally, I mean, I literally sent you something today and you referenced it like 20 minutes later when I got to your house and I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And that's how quickly we're consuming information where nothing's sticking. And I feel like people are. I know I'm getting tired of that. To where it's like, how do I engage with the one thing? Like instead of listening to three podcasts at 2x speed, can I listen at a normal speed and get five takeaways from this? Great. And I feel like that same way in my contents, I was thinking about that I was putting together one of my recent videos. I'm like, like, if someone watches this, is it just like, oh, okay. Or is it something where it's like, here's something that they can walk away with as, like, here's the thing I took from this. That's valuable because it's just so easy to just go like, I'm churning out content or I just want to doom scroll and watch stuff. And like, neither of those are helping. And I do hope we're kind of shifting away from that. But same speaking of long form content, we're over our time.
[24:03]
A
Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Thanks for tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Money in the bank, so let's start there. Here on the Traps Makes Money podcast. Catch you next time. Peace.