CO-HOST | Make Money by Understanding the Real Cost of Rent Control

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Travis Makes Money
Host: Travis Chappell
Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money by Understanding the Real Cost of Rent Control
Date: July 21, 2026

This episode features Travis Chappell and his producer, Eric, in a lively discussion about the impact of recent rent control policies—specifically the New York City rent freeze—and how these measures affect both large investment groups and smaller, independent landlords. The duo unpacks the real-world implications of housing policies, the economic realities behind property ownership, and the ways social perceptions color the debate between tenants and landlords.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and Trends in Live Selling

• Travis opens with an enthusiastic review of Whatnot, a live shopping app, praising its capability to empower regular people to make real income and build communities quickly.
• Light banter follows about Travis’s upside-down hat from College Hunks Hauling Junk—with jokes regarding trends, swag, and hunky movers.
  • Memorable Quote:
    Eric: "So this is a company where hunky college guys move stuff for you?" (04:16)
    Travis: "That's right. Remove junk and move your stuff." (04:19)

2. Transition to the Main Topic: Rent Control in New York City

• Eric brings up the subject of New York’s rent freeze (11:16), teasing Travis to weigh in on the politics and practical implications.
• Brief clarification of what rent freeze means: prohibition on raising rents for a set period, impacting both institutional investors and smaller, family-owned properties.
• The hosts set up the discussion by acknowledging both widespread public support for the freeze and concerns about its unintended consequences.

3. The Plight of the Small Landlord: Family Legacies at Risk

• The core of the episode centers on the story of Jose, a small landlord faced with selling his family’s building due to the rent freeze restricting his cash flow.
  • Clip played:
    Eric: "This landlord is struggling… Mamdani’s rent freeze is just the latest… pricing him out of the family business.” (13:13) Jose in clip: “...We’re pretty much like useless and the government has more control than we have of our own property.” (13:32)
• The hosts challenge the internet’s harsh reaction; Eric reads comments skeptical of Jose’s problems, suggesting if a 2% rent freeze leads to bankruptcy, perhaps the owner "wasn’t doing good business in the first place." (15:04)
  • Travis counters:
    "That’s not how that, like when you buy a building, you don’t have three years of reserves…" (15:06)
• Discussion acknowledges that property ownership, especially for small landlords, often involves refinancing for life events, business investments, or unexpected expenses (24:04).

4. Public Sentiment: Tenant Frustrations vs. Property Owner Realities

• Eric reads a range of online comments, reflecting:
  • Frustration at inherited wealth and property (“Bro inherited this from his grandfather. I ain't got shit from my grandparents.” (19:14))
  • Dismissal of landlord complaints, with some calling them “parasites” or “cockroaches.” (16:49, 19:46)
  • Awareness of rising costs:
    "The cost of materials, maintenance, labor and utilities has hardly increased since 2018. I don't think that's true." (19:48)
• Travis points out the hypocrisy of some populist arguments and highlights that policies without nuance may inadvertently punish both small landlords and tenants.

5. Policy Analysis: Who Really Gets Hurt by Rent Controls?

• Critical observation: rent freezes might be aimed at large institutional investors but often have the harshest impact on small, independent landlords.
• Travis draws a parallel:
  "It's the same conversation as the minimum wage increase… The very ideology that most of these people have… is the exact people they're benefiting when they do stuff like this. Because if this guy sells it off, it’s going to be some private equity group or massive real estate fund that comes that can afford the blow." (18:25)
• Discussion on the likely downstream effects:
  • Small landlords being driven out
  • Properties snapped up by cash-rich firms or left to decay
  • Risk of long-term community destabilization if investment dries up

6. Final Thoughts: The Complexity of Housing Affordability

• Travis stresses that blanket policies may not solve the nuanced problems facing the rental market: "Doing this one thing does not solve affordability… the desire for everything to be cheap and free and easy is just like, it’s not going to happen—especially when you’re living in a city like New York." (21:32)
• Both hosts agree that while some intervention is warranted, poorly targeted policies can discourage new investment, with potential parallels to what happened in Detroit.

7. Engaging Wrap-Up and Takeaways

• Eric, with tongue-in-cheek, sums up the urban exodus:
  "Get the worms out of the Big Apple." (23:54)
• Travis explains why some inherited buildings may not be paid off, citing life events and the volatility of small business and personal finance (24:04).
• The hosts finish with a practical reminder: policies that sound good on paper require nuance and an understanding of the real costs to all stakeholders.
• Sign-off quote:
  "Money only solves your money problems. It’s easier to solve the rest of your problems, think so? Let’s start there." (26:07)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Property Trends:
  "Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces." – Travis (00:55)

• On Rent Freeze Impact:
  "Because of the government and because of obviously the costs. And we're put in a place where we're... pretty much like useless and the government has more control than we have of our own property." – Jose (clip) (13:32)

• On Public Perception:
  "There’s some people that have no pity for this man because he’s a landlord and all landlords are cockroaches." – Eric (14:16)

• On Small Landlord Reality:
  "People tend to think that just because somebody bought this building a while ago that they must be flush with cash…But that’s not the case for some of these smaller landlords…there’s a myriad of reasons why it may not be paid off now." – Travis (24:04)

• On Policy Effects:
  "If this guy sells it off, it’s going to be some private equity group or massive real estate fund that comes that can afford the blow." – Travis (18:25)

• On Affordability:
  "The desire for everything to be cheap and free and easy is just like, it’s not going to happen—especially when you’re living in a city like New York." – Travis (21:32)

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Segment Timeline

• 00:00-04:55: Banter about Whatnot app and College Hunks hat, hats and trends, lighthearted jokes
• 11:16-13:13: Transition to rent freeze topic, set up of New York’s policy and small landlord story
• 13:17-15:04: Introduction of Jose’s struggles; rents and family legacy threatened
• 15:04-18:25: Deep dive into public comments, criticism, and landlord defenses; comparing small landlords’ plights to larger investors
• 18:25-22:27: Effects of policy on property market, the likely result of policies on investment and maintenance, nuanced take on affordability debate
• 24:04-25:44: Practical realities of financing, refinancing, inheritance, and reasons for unpaid mortgages
• 26:07: Closing remarks and episode sign-off

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Tone & Style

The conversation skillfully blends Travis’s motivational, solution-oriented tone with Eric’s dry humor and pointed skepticism. They maintain lighthearted banter even as they unravel deeper socioeconomic issues, making a potentially polarizing topic accessible, relatable, and engaging.

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Transcript

[A]

I was recently on whatnot the other day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got to go see if this thing is real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just having fun in the chat. They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like, you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece too. Where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to see your face as the seller. Not just a logo or a brand, anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers across whatnot. The number of sellers making over $1 million a year has now doubled. The consistency pays off for those sellers. It's not just side hustle. It's a real path to building something that lasts. Because whatnot buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, they're not just browsing around, they're engaged, they're buying, they're coming back. You go live, show off your products in real time and turn what you love into real income. So search whatnot whnot in the app store, download it today, and get started selling right away. You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer, Eric is here in studio. What's up?

[B]

I'm so confused. That's typical because your hat's upside down.

[A]

Yeah, it's some. It's some free swag that I got from Nick Friedman, founder of College Honks. Moving junk.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

So this is.

[B]

Wait, hold on. All I heard was you were getting junk from some college hunk. What'd you say?

[A]

Yeah, no, they removed my junk.

[B]

They removed your junk?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. A lot happened. Crazy cruise. You woke up in a bathtub filled with ice. Why is it upside down?

[A]

That's the new trend, bro. Is it really upside down and backwards is like the new trend?

[B]

I don't I don't get it.

[A]

I don't either, but it looks cool.

[B]

I mean, I guess I think it's a cool hat.

[A]

That's why I'm wearing it. Thank you, Nick.

[B]

I don't know if Nick has your best interests at heart.

[A]

Well, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.

[B]

I don't know why I'm trashing Nick's merch. I'm just confused by it. Why? Because the sides are not upside down.

[A]

Yeah, but that's like the thing on the front panel. I feel like you've never seen a hat like this.

[B]

I've never. I don't look at hats because they're outside of my realm.

[A]

Said was like, is that a new hat? That's a nice hat. She's like. She was like. It's like. She's like, I don't know why that's the trend, but that's the. Definitely the trend right now is upside down and backwards. And I was like, yeah, I know. So it's funny that you haven't seen that.

[B]

But you know what would be cool? See, I don't like it because it's like, it's not ironic enough. Like, I think it would be cooler if the bill curved upward too, where it looks like it's just an inverted hat, but it just looks like an accident. But then the sides are printed normal, so it feels like they kind of half assed the upside down thing.

[A]

Well, you don't. You don't go full upside down.

[B]

And what was the company this was for? College guy, funky college guys near you.

[A]

So it says hunks on the front.

[B]

The moving company, right? Yeah. Why did he give this to you? Were you moving?

[A]

No, no, we were. Just had a podcast episode in person.

[B]

Really? Recently?

[A]

Yeah, like three days ago. Okay, maybe four days ago. So he brought me a book, and he brought me a hat.

[B]

Is the book written upside down?

[A]

Upside down and backwards.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, interesting.

[A]

And any more questions about my hat?

[B]

Yeah, how's the company doing? Is it profitable?

[A]

Well, they are doing about 300 million a year.

[B]

Interesting. Okay, big team.

[A]

It's because of the upside down backwards hats, I think.

[B]

Yeah. It's just really. I haven't wanted to look at it while we've been recording because it's so, like, confusing to me and I don't know what's happening. Wait, look at the side.

[A]

It's literally.

[B]

It's on the other side of the hat. Is that. That's upside down and backwards.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Wait, but this side's upright and forwards okay. And so this is a company.

[A]

You seem to be spending a lot of time on this.

[B]

Wait, so this is a company where hunky college guys move stuff for you?

[A]

That's right. Remove junk and move your stuff.

[B]

Okay. If you're dissatisfied with the hunkiness of the person moving your stuff, can you get a refund?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Do you ever pretend you have to move stuff so that way you can have the hunks show up at your house?

[A]

Are you asking me if I personally do this?

[B]

Do you ever do that? Hey, I want to move this box from here to here. Do you ever do that?

[A]

I'm not sure.

[B]

It's like when people say, like, oh, I think there's a fire and the fire. Fire department shows up.

[A]

Yeah, I personally have not done that.

[B]

Anyway, you said it was like Hooters because there's a bunch of hunky college guys at Hooters.

[A]

No, I'm saying if you go to Hooters and you're like, oh, I'm upset with the talent here. I don't think they just give you your food for free.

[B]

I wouldn't know.

[A]

That's subjective.

[B]

I wouldn't know.

[A]

You've never been to a Hooters?

[B]

No.

[A]

Not a pervert.

[B]

Not some pervert like you.

[A]

We went to Hooters on our honeymoon.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're still religious?

[A]

Really Rogue.

[B]

Why'd you go?

[A]

I think it was. Frankly, I think it was just the closest place to our hotel. And we were.

[B]

That is. That. That's like something you see on a business trip. Hey, babe. Sorry, I gotta stop in for lunch. Closest thing to the hotel.

[A]

But my wife was there on our honeymoon.

[B]

It was also the first where you guys met.

[A]

We were really rogue here because we had.

[B]

Was she working at share at the time?

[A]

What?

[B]

Or were you just visiting your mother on our honeymoon? I don't know.

[A]

We were really rogue because it was also the first drink of alcohol we ever had.

[B]

This is so deep.

[A]

And had a mar.

[B]

This is so degenerate that you skip all the steps to being like a 50 year old man where it's like, yeah, we just could have.

[A]

Missing the Hawaiian shirt here.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And a beer belly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Any other.

[B]

So when Hooters. When a Hooters location moves, do the college guys come move the stuff from one Hooters to another?

[A]

I think that they're contractually obligated when

[B]

they deliver the items. Are the items upside down? Hey, can you move this piano? Sure, Grung. It's Upside down.

[A]

That's a good piano. Upside down noise.

[B]

That's what it would sound like. And then there's that one. That lingering timber. Yeah.

[A]

Because the pedals push down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a deep cut.

[B]

That would be a great podcast about pianos. Pedals to the metal.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

Anyway, so Mamdani's rent freeze. No. I've never been to Hooters though.

[A]

That's crazy. I once I say that, but I think that was the only time.

[B]

Well, the thing is.

[A]

The thing is we gamble at the Hooters casino a couple times.

[B]

The thing is, there was a time where it would have thrilled me. Like, the thought of going to Hooters would be exciting.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now it feels just like I just haven't done it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I feel like I gotta get it off.

[A]

That was how it was.

[B]

But also now I'm sober enough of mine to go like, it's not cool to go to Hooters.

[A]

Yeah. It's not.

[B]

It's not like a sick place.

[A]

Food is mediocre at best.

[B]

You know, pretty good wings.

[A]

But other than that.

[B]

Is it though?

[A]

Yeah, pretty good. Now I will say we went to the Hooters casino a few times because it was really cheap and they had dollar blackjack there. One dollar blackjack.

[B]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

This episode of the show is brought to you by chime. Chime is changing the way that people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking built for you, not the 1%. Chime members can benefit from up to 1150 in annual rewards fee free direct deposit unlocks the most rewarding way to make a chime. It's rated 5 stars by USA Today for customer service with real actual humans 24. 7. Enough to do the thing by itself. People, come on. You're not just switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking. With a chime checking account, you get 5% cash back on a chime card. And category of choice, like gas or groceries, you get savings to grow faster with a 3.75% APY, which is nine times higher than the national average. They also have spot me, which lets you overdraft up to $200 fee free. And you can even get up to 500 of your pay. When you say with something that they call my pay, I know my younger self would have benefited this and you will too. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. So join the millions who are already banking fee free. Today. Head to chime.com travis that's chime.com travis only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chime's Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay Spot me and travel perks go to chime.com disclos this episode of the show is brought to you by AG1. I don't know about you, but I feel like I've been traveling quite a bit this summer and I'm leaving again next week. But you know one thing that has made it into my bag every single time is a little bit of ag1. Summer vacation means a different bed, different schedule, healthy habits put on pause waiting for the fall. Except for the 30 seconds that it takes to mix AG1 one scoop plus 8 ounces of water every morning and AG1 helps maintain energy, support gut health and support immune health. And it's clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. It's a daily health drink with multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants. So one scoop 8 ounces of water. That's all you need. Even though summers your license to chill with all the late nights, long weekends, spontaneous plans, AG1 helps you keep at least one thing consistent high quality nutritional support every single day no matter where you start your morning. I use this and you should too. Visit drink ag1.comTMM to get a free ag1 travel case with seven free ag1 travel packs in your welcome kit with your first ag1 subscription order while supplies last. That's drink ag1.comTMM.

[B]

You know the guy that owns the. Uh huh. You know the guy that get it out. You know the guy that owns the hunks college movement thing? He's not good at blackjack because he always puts his cards upside down.

[A]

That would be the same card. Exactly. You pick the one scenario where that wouldn't matter at all.

[B]

He puts them all before they doesn't matter.

[A]

Still the same card. The 6 doesn't change to a 9 if it goes upside down.

[B]

No, but I'm saying they flip them over of course. What? Anyway, so Mondani's rent freeze threatens to bankrupt a landlord. No, I had a clip I wanted to show you. Okay, we're almost out of time. Welcome to today's episode of Run the Clock. I've got a small clip and I've got a lot to say.

[A]

No, that should be the name of your podcast.

[B]

Anyway, I should expect nothing less from someone of your alma mater to act like this, to behave this way.

[A]

Okay. All right, we're ready. What's the clip you're going to show?

[B]

You know the guy that runs that? No, I'm just kidding. So I was going to show you. Speaking of upside down, this landlord is struggling.

[A]

Okay. There you go. There's something there.

[B]

Anyway, so I don't know if you've heard. Mamdani. Mamdani.

[A]

New York City mayor.

[B]

In New York. New York City mayor. He's cleaning up the place. Doing a good job.

[A]

Is he?

[B]

That's why I endorsed him when he was running.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Yep. Anyway, did anybody ask? He's doing a rent freeze. All the New York papers called. They said we got to know. I did interview. I did, actually. I did tentatively endorse because I did an interview with someone who was in New York politics, and we talked and I was express support. So it's really me that got him there. Anyway, he's got a rent freeze right now in New York City, which means. Which means he's freezing the rent, which means it's very cold. No, he's not allowing people to raise the rents in their apartments. Do you know what that means? Are you asking to make sure I know what it means? No, I feel like. You don't think I knew.

[A]

No, no, I figured you knew. You put this episode.

[B]

So people are jacking. People are jacking rents up. New York's a crazy place. People are jacking the rents up. And he said, no more. No more freezing it. And people are excited, and I think they're looking at investors that don't even live in New York. This is a common problem in real estate. There's people that live in, like, Texas that are buying a New York building and they're jacking rates up, and they don't even live there. And so it's making it unlivable for the average that lives in these areas. So there's a lot of big institutional investors that this is supposed to kind of clamp down on. But there's also the little guys, too. And there's a particular example that I had of a fella who's had a building for a while in his family, and now he's worried that this is going to drive him to bankruptcy. So I wanted to watch this. Don't say, yeah, you don't know if you agree yet. So we're going to watch this clip and we'll see.

[A]

Yeah, like, yeah, obviously that was going to happen. Jose is weighing whether he should stay and continue his grandfather's legacy or sell and get out because he says years of oppressive housing policies, of which Mamdani's rent freeze is just the latest and most extreme, are pricing him out of

[B]

the family business because of the government and because of obviously the costs. And we're put in a place where we're, we're pretty much like useless and the government has more control than we have of our own property.

[A]

Jose is weighing whether he should stay.

[B]

Oh, excuse me. So one of the. Well, let me read some of these comments because I want to get your take on. Well, first of all, he shouldn't start a podcast.

[A]

I was going to say, I literally was going to say like somebody's. No, but media training.

[B]

But here's some comments from people, okay. Because obviously there's some people that have no pity for this man because he's a landlord and all landlords are cockroaches.

[A]

That's a crazy take.

[B]

Okay. So some people have that. I'm just saying. What? People have the take.

[A]

They're crazy.

[B]

I watched a 90s thriller about landlord couple that buys this place and then Michael Keaton is a tenant and then he's like, obviously crazy and he basically locks the door of the apartment and all this stuff and it's like a horror thriller. He's like a psychotic guy that lives in their house. And I opened up my app where I review movies and I was reading people's reviews. Like I'm supposed to feel bad for a landlord. I was like, whoa, dude, did we just watch the movie? He like releases cockroaches into their apartment and like, good for the guy. But anyway, here's some of the comments. Okay. Someone said if a two year rent freeze puts you out of business, you weren't doing good business in the first place.

[A]

Terrible take.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because that's not how that like when you buy a building, you don't have three years of reserves in order to

[B]

be able to buy a. It was his family. It's been in his family. Right.

[A]

Well, that speaks to the lack of profitability that they already had before.

[B]

So was it a bad investment in the beginning?

[A]

Well, probably not. Because that's a good investment doesn't mean that it has to yield you that much additional cash. And if that's the core way that they make money, then the Cash isn't sitting in that building.

[B]

Okay, here's someone said it's literally 2%. LOL. If not getting a 2% increase for 2 years is going to bankrupt you, you didn't have the profit margins to begin with. If it's his grandfather's legacy and he inherited it, then how the hell haven't they paid off the mortgage in all these years? His grandpa probably paid $200,000 for the building. I don't think that's true. And now it's probably worth well over $2 million if they've been making money out the entire time and getting the mortgage paid. So we're supposed to feel bad that now he. She don't start a blog and now he won't make as much as he wants? Too bad. That's how investments go. You won't always make a 15% return every year. It was a fantastic investment. People still have a right to actually afford housing. Otherwise, where will they go? The streets? Let's be so for real right now.

[A]

All people who've never bought a piece of real estate.

[B]

Well, okay, how about this? Nah. This is Ashley E. Matthews. I'm a landlord in New York City. That's brave to comment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On your personal profile. I'm a small, independent human being. I don't see what size has to do with it. I'm not entitled to people's money. This is a privilege to be able to afford the property to begin with, much less to charge others for it. Sell the property if you cannot afford to maintain it. What do you think of that? That's a landlord.

[A]

Yeah. It doesn't mean that he's a smart landlord.

[B]

That's a.

[A]

She doesn't mean that she's a smart landlord.

[B]

Are you saying that because it's a woman?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it's clear that's what you're doing. Someone said the whole point is to bankrupt landlords and the city steals the properties. Communism 101.

[A]

Well, I don't know if that's the point. Oh, someone said might be sort of a lagging effect.

[B]

But someone said maybe get a second job, cut down on avocado toast. Is avocado toast expensive? Why is that always everybody's go to thing?

[A]

What's so funny is these are all the same people who whine about it the other direction when they're told to skip out on the Avocado coast coast.

[B]

Hey, I live on the Avocado Coast. The ocean is green.

[A]

That actually sounds great. Great.

[B]

The Avocado Coast.

[A]

The Avocado Coast. They probably have bomb avocados there.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

No, it's the same group that's going to whine about giving up their avocado toast because they don't make enough money to be able to afford eating out and. But then they vilify the landlord. Yeah, Sounds like a bunch of whiners to me.

[B]

Here's one more. I would say first, it's not the mayor's rent freeze. It's the 2 million people that fought for this before he was on the scene. I feel for any landlord that will suffer with higher costs. But 2 million have suffered for years. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. That's from Star Trek or the one.

[A]

At least that's.

[B]

But we are talking about 2% when it went up 12% under Adams. It's time that people get some relief.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, at least that's a sort of a balanced take to some degree and bringing up some things to actually discuss, you know what I mean? With some of these other ones just people being mad at anybody who owns real estate and pretending like they're all evil.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at least this one's sort of like bringing some perspective into the tape, like into the discussion. But yeah, it still. Still doesn't mean that it's correct or that. Because this is sort of like the same conversation as like the minimum wage increase thing. Yeah, it's like, can McDonald's afford it? Yeah, probably. But the mom and pop business can't. Like the. The very ideology that most of these people have, which is like, you know, stick it to the corporate greed people, is the exact people they're benefiting when they do stuff like this. Because if this guy sells it off, it's going to be some private equity group or massive real estate fund that

[B]

comes that can't afford the blow.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Someone said.

[A]

Or nobody does and the building gets condemned. And then where do all those people live?

[B]

Someone said, bro inherited this from his grandfather. I ain't got shit from my grandparents.

[A]

Okay, thank you for your addition to the comment section.

[B]

I thought that was funny. Let's see if there's any more good ones. Hold on, hold on. There's a couple funny ones. They're not helpful. They're not helpful. Here's one. This sounds like it's from you. Oppressive housing policies. Cry harder. Parasites. The cost of materials, maintenance, labor and utilities has hardly increased since 2018. I don't think that's true.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

I think it's actually skyrocketed. Around 2020 and I think a lot of people went under.

[A]

That's something that happened if I remember.

[B]

Yeah, I do think, I do think this guy's a cockroach we should stomp. I'm just kidding. I was going to say I think there's like many things I think there's somewhere in the middle of like people are rate like rents going up like 12.

[A]

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[B]

over like a three or four year period is crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also I do think sometimes policies that are going to broadly help don't have the nuance to be able to go like, exactly, hey, this person, any

[A]

other problem in affordability?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like theoretically it'd be great if it just became more of affordable, more affordable of a place and landlords could lower their rents and still make the money that they need to to cover the mortgage. But like doing this one thing does not solve affordability for a lot of those people. And a lot of the landlords, especially these small landlords, are also in the boat of not having enough money and wondering where the next paycheck's going to come from or they're concerned with this financial thing in their life and then when you have government policy that comes in and prevents them from like benefiting from maybe the one good financial decision they were able to Make. Which was like buying a property.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it just discourages ownership in that state. That, that's the, that's sort of the, the tail end of this is like, what happens to this property. Like no independents are going to come in and buy it. The only people that would potentially buy it would be people with massive amounts of cash reserves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or a newbie who doesn't understand that they're buying a bad deal, in which case it's going to be back in the same position that it was in now in a year from now. And then what happens when. If the building gets foreclosed on or condemned or like, do those people, where do they, where do they move after that? When there's no landlord there to fix the plumbing issue or there's no money to fix the plumbing issue. It's just, I don't know, man, like, the desire for everything to be cheap and free and easy is just like it's not going to happen. When, especially when you're living in a city like New York. Does that mean that we should leave it alone and not try to do anything to fix or solve the problem? No. But, you know, taking some of these measures, I don't think is, I don't think is beneficial for the future of the city because it's just going to discourage the people with money from investing in that, in that culture. Then you have a Detroit on your hands. I don't think that'll happen in New York City. Probably the same would happen to Detroit because it's such a thoroughfare of the entire. Yeah, it's like the main area of commerce in the U.S. but there's a, there's a threat there. At least there's, there's definitely something to think about in terms of the long term repercussions that, that, you know, gives to that state. But the more they do stuff like that, the more those people are just going to be like, all right, you know, we're done buying real estate in New York and then they let it go and move on to Florida or Ohio or Iowa or Texas or Arizona or something else. There's other options in the country so people don't have to deal with that type of policy creation.

[B]

Well, you know what I say? Get the worms out of the Big Apple. I don't know. That was a good one. What do you think of. People are saying the mortgage should be paid off and owned outright already?

[A]

There's a lot of reasons why it wouldn't be.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Well, if they, like I said, people tend to think that just because somebody bought this building a while ago that they must be flush with cash and they're super rich. But that's not the case for some of these smaller landlords. They put all of their eggs into this one basket because they thought it was going to be a really good investment. And then 10 years in, maybe they paid off a decent chunk of it. But this thing happened in their personal life that required them to have extra capital. So they went and took a second out on the property and refinanced it and pulled cash out and there's no equity there anymore. And now they have a higher interest rate and the, the rents are not as profitable as they used to be. There's plenty of reasons why it may not be paid down right now. And, and again, should they have refinanced it? I don't know. I don't know their personal situation. But that's not like people that are assuming that stuff. That's what I mean by, like, you've never bought a piece of real estate. Like you, if you, if you're just like, if you're just in the comments assuming that, that others should be paid off by now and you're dumb if it's not. And it's like, okay, well, there's plenty of reasons why it maybe wasn't. Maybe they expand and, or open a small business or something. So they took a loan against the equity in the property and then it didn't do well and then they had to pay that money back and they were upside down on it for a while. Like, there's a myriad of reasons why it may not be paid off. Now.

[B]

Do you want to buy the building?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I would not buy anything close out of the Zillow.

[B]

Really?

[A]

California or New York.

[B]

Just going to close. I'm just going to close out the Zillow. Okay, hold on. Okay, let me tell him I'm not interested.

[A]

Yeah, it's not great advertising for him. Just trying to sell that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't watch the news.

[B]

Everything's. The walls are collapsing in on me. I, I'm so upside down.

[A]

It's really good.

[B]

But it's a great investment. Great starter investment for your family. Family legacy.

[A]

You should put all your eggs into this basket anyway.

[B]

Well, my eggs are cooking on the stove. I gotta get them. So we should close out the episode.

[A]

Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems. It's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Think so? Let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.