CO-HOST | Make Money by Understanding Your Real Value in Business and Exposure Deals

Summary

Travis Makes Money — Episode Summary
Episode Title: CO-HOST | Make Money by Understanding Your Real Value in Business and Exposure Deals
Host: Travis Chappell (A)
Co-Host/Producer: Eric (B)
Release Date: May 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Travis Makes Money dives into the hot-button business topic of exposure as a form of payment, especially for small businesses and service providers. Host Travis Chappell and his producer Eric break down a viral social media post about a balloon artist who turned down an "exposure" deal from a celebrity, debating the real value of exposure, how business owners should evaluate such offers, and the pitfalls of ego and entitlement. The conversation offers actionable advice and strong opinions meant to help listeners truly understand and maximize their worth in business.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Paid in Exposure” Dilemma

[01:24–06:18]

• Eric introduces the topic: a balloon business that went viral for refusing an offer to work for a celebrity “in exchange for exposure.”

• The business posted their response online, proudly stating, “Instagram tags aren’t on our list of payment methods. We accept cash, card, or bank transfer. If Meta ever allows us to pay our suppliers with likes and followers, we’ll revisit this conversation.” (B, 05:41)

  “Exposure is a bonus, not payment. Support small business properly. Do you think we made the right decision?”
  (Balloon company's social media, recounted by Eric, 06:20)

• Travis is critical of the business’s attitude, labeling the social post as performative and “objectively stupid” given their 1,800-follower account and the potential opportunity lost.

  “It’s an objectively dumb decision. ...This is not a proprietary technology that you invented that they can't get anywhere else.”
  (Travis, 06:52)

2. Understanding Value and Opportunity

[07:20–09:16], [11:11–12:02]

• Travis emphasizes the asymmetry in value: If a true celebrity offers exposure, a small business stands to gain vastly more than the prospective customer.

• He points out that businesses must assess: How much would it cost to buy similar reach via paid ads? Often, the exposure is worth far more than the direct payment for a small project.

  “…for small or new businesses, your number one barrier to growth is exposure. ...It should be your number one priority, even above immediate profit.”
  (Travis, 08:19)

• Exposure from a reputable personality can generate lasting social proof and new sales opportunities that a single invoice cannot match.

3. Ego, Entitlement, and Self-Awareness

[12:42–14:12], [21:14–22:49]

• Both hosts criticize public "shaming" or sarcastic responses to exposure offers—arguing it closes the door on future potential and makes a business seem unprofessional.

  “You don’t have to do this sarcastic, weird, or do it just so you can say, ‘this would be great to post about later that I turned this up....’”
  (Eric, 12:42)

• Travis notes many creators and business owners either inflate their worth or battle impostor syndrome, cautioning that real value comes from honest self-assessment—not wishful thinking.

  “It's a misconception that money's the only thing that's valuable in business. There are several value levers that can be pulled.”
  (Travis, 13:21)

• The conversation highlights that refusing well-matched exposure deals out of pride may ultimately hold a business back.

4. Personal Examples and Practical Advice

[17:11–20:57]

• Eric shares a story about his podcast being featured in a Peacock documentary without prior licensing. Instead of demanding payment, he leveraged the opportunity for credibility—gaining authority and visibility over a small, one-time check.

  “If I want to do more of this stuff...do I want to assume ill intent on the side of the filmmaker and then blast Peacock? ...Or, I can do a quick reel and say, ‘Hey guys, the show's making waves, we're on a Peacock show!’... That's way more valuable.”
  (Eric, 19:42)

• Travis echoes this strategy for nearly any small business or creative pro: Use exposure opportunities as stepping stones, not petty battlefields.

• Both advise: Always respond professionally—even when declining—because you never know who’s watching, or when the same contact could offer something even better.

5. “Know Your Real Worth”—Not Just a Slogan

[22:52–25:23]

• The hosts dissect the oft-misused phrase "know your worth," arguing it cuts both ways. Sometimes, knowing your worth means understanding you are in the “smaller” seat in the deal—and that’s OK.

  “Know your worth doesn't just mean ‘think you’re amazing’...It actually means know your real worth. Sometimes you need the reality check.”
  (Travis, 24:25)

• They suggest practical steps instead of snarky rejections: Negotiate partial payment, ask for hard cost coverage, or propose mutually beneficial terms—but recognize when the scales are tipped in the other party’s favor.

  “Maybe we can work something out where you just cover my cost to take care of the event for you and I’ll do it on a massive discount that I don't do for anybody else. Would that work?”
  (Travis, 25:23)

6. Recap and Closing Thoughts

[27:20–27:38]

• The episode wraps by reinforcing the central idea: Seizing the right exposure deal can be more valuable than immediate payment—especially for those early or mid-journey in their business. Humility plus an eye for opportunity wins in the long run.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On exposure as payment:

  “I've never been paid in exposure.” — Travis [01:29]

• On performative rejection posts:

  “They were so proud when they wrote that and they knew that people would lap this stuff up and it makes me so mad.” — Eric [05:41]

• Assessing value realistically:

  “Stop pretending like you’re the one offering value to them. That person going on your show does almost zero things for them and does a lot of really good things for you.” — Travis [14:12]

• Advice for creators:

  “Always respond professionally, even when declining—because you never know…that guy’s a douchebag.” — Eric [12:45]

• On small business opportunity:

  “They're giving you an opportunity that most people will never have at their fingertips, and then you're just turning a blind eye to it.” — Travis [25:23]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Exposure as Payment: The Balloon Business Story
  [01:24–06:18]

• Understanding Real Value in Business Deals
  [07:20–09:16], [11:11–12:02]

• The Pitfalls of Entitlement and the Importance of Humility
  [12:42–14:12], [21:14–22:49]

• Eric’s Story: Leveraging Unlicensed Exposure
  [17:11–20:57]

• How to Actually “Know Your Worth”
  [22:52–25:23]

• Wrap Up: Closing Thoughts
  [27:20–27:38]

---

Final Takeaway

This episode pushes listeners to ask themselves: Are you letting pride, ego, or misguided notions about “your worth” block genuine growth opportunities? Exposure isn't always a scam—sometimes it’s the smartest investment, provided you analyze the real value on the table. Stay humble, do the math, and always keep your mind (and options) open.

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Listen daily to Travis Makes Money for more real talk, actionable tips, and inspiration to take control of your financial and professional future.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Foreign.

[A]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What is going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. My producer Eric is in studio. What's up?

[B]

You sounded greedy when you said that. Make more money.

[A]

I'm super greedy.

[B]

You're gonna make more money today. Get in there, kids. And the pickaxe. And find diamonds in the mines today for me.

[A]

You just went to child labor.

[B]

Yes. Sew those sweatshirts for me. I don't know what the voice is. I'm trying to. I'm circling something.

[A]

Are you.

[B]

The best way to do an impression is to not know what you're doing an impression of and find it along the way. It's a little Michael Scott almost.

[A]

Actually, that sounded pretty close.

[B]

Okay, so here's a question.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What's your thoughts on getting paid in exposure?

[A]

I've never been paid in exposure.

[B]

Wow. Ever?

[A]

Have you been paid to expose yourself? Is that not what you were asking? I mean, if you want to do it, go for it, but that shit lives on the Internet forever.

[B]

You know, I did just do an article for Playboy. That's true. And I said, hey, if you want me to do, I can pose too. They were very adamant that that was not necessary. And they said, please stop sending us suggestive images. That's a joke.

[A]

That's a joke.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Playboy.

[B]

I did do that. Yeah. We just gotta mention it's legally required now to mention that in the list. And, you know, also, I was in a show on HBO Max, and it was in the top 10.

[A]

Wait, but the top 10 doesn't matter unless it debuts in between.

[B]

Well, it was in between. It was Megan Thee Stallion's rap shit and Selena Gomez's cooking. Yeah, right there. Whatever, bro.

[A]

First time I ever heard that, you know?

[B]

Anyway, so I saw this post from this balloon company.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

It's a lady that does balloons. The kind that you put at parties.

[A]

Not hot air balloons or cocaine.

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

Heroin.

[B]

I feel like I'm in an episode of euphoria with all the drug and exposure talk.

[A]

Anyway, so what was the balloon post?

[B]

So this balloon company wrote a post.

[A]

These.

[B]

You know, I, you know, I'm bringing this up because these things get under my skin. It makes me so mad. I don't know when people talk about this because we talked about this with the photographers the other day. I'm vibrating right now. Cause I'm winding. Cause I'm shaking. So they posted carousel. Post said, omg, a celebrity wants to work with us. Swiped to see how quickly the excitement disappeared. First of all, I hate boohoo posts. I know you did one today. No, no. But I do hate as a form of marketing. I see authors do this where they'll be like, I hosted a book signing and no one came. And then you just generate people like, oh my God, I would have been there. If I lived in Queens, I would have been there. If I was a nurse living in Queens, I would have showed up. I know Jeff Bezos put that in my brain. Oh my God, I wish I could have supported you. Where can I buy six copies? I hate it. Yeah, yeah. Or when people have their spous. It's like my husband had his first book signing and nobody came or whatever.

[A]

Just guilt maxing.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, guilt maxing. I like that.

[A]

That's a good book title, as the kids say.

[B]

Anyway, so here's.

[A]

That is a good book title.

[B]

So here's the message. Let's not write it down so we never follow up on it. So here's what the post says. Good morning. I hope you don't mind us reaching out. We are currently assisting a high profile client with the planning of a large celebration for their child. Your work immediately stood out to both us and the client. They absolutely love your styling and the quality of your setups. And we're really KE for us to get in touch to explore the possibility of collaborating with you on the event. The celebration will also be featured within filming the client is currently involved in. So the setup and styling would receive a lot of visibility both during filming and across social media afterwards. The client has a huge following online and would be sharing the event extensively across their platforms with full tagging and promotion of your work throughout. And so, like, first of all, we don't know. I don't know if this is like a social media celebrity, regular celebrity. They don't say, obviously. And so they did this post. Maybe this whole post just makes me mad at all of it, but they're like filming huge following, high visibility. I'm so excited. And then the person says, as this would be more of a partnership collaboration opportunity, we wanted to see whether this is something you'd be potentially interested in discussing further alongside ideas and concepts for the event itself. We genuinely feel your style would be the perfect fit and could bring great exposure to your business. Let us know your thoughts. We'd love to chat further if it's something you'd be open to. And then they said, what did we decide? And I was reading and I was just sweating, angry. I was like, I wonder what they chose to do. Here we go. So they said, hey, thank you so much for your message and also the kind words regarding our work. We agree our styling and quality of work really stands out. We genuinely do love what we do. We'd absolutely love to get involved with your client celebration. However, an Instagram tag, unfortunately isn't on our list of payment methods. Literally. Oh, my God, stop it.

[A]

Anyway, you know, they were so proud when they wrote that and they knew

[B]

that people would lap and people lap this stuff up and it makes me so mad. Is on our list of payment methods. We can, however, accept payment by cash card or bank transfer. We're also available to offer flexible payment plans if your client would find it easier to spread the cost. Although if Meta ever allows us to pay our suppliers with likes and followers, we'll revisit this conversation immediately. We'd love to hear more about your client's vision. If they'd like to move forward, please do let us know. Many thanks. And then they said this and I. I threw my computer into a pool.

[A]

This is a new computer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had to get a new computer.

[B]

No, it's. I just blew dry it because I. I've been being paid exposure lately and I couldn't afford anyone. Exposure is a bonus, not payment. Support small business properly. Do you think we made the right decision?

[A]

No, you did. You objectively made the wrong decision. Let me see how big their account is.

[B]

Small.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They have 1800 followers. Yeah.

[A]

This is stupid. This is so dumb. I'm sorry. If whoever is running this account sees this.

[B]

I don't. I hope you see this.

[A]

But it's a.

[B]

It's an objectively pop.

[A]

It's an objectively dumb decision. I see this happen with podcasters all the time when it comes to, like, getting guests on or going on shows that are way bigger than their current status in that world and then suggesting, like, it's the other person's fault, like, they just didn't see the value or whatever. Yeah, that's just a bunch of bullshit that you're telling yourself you're. You've bought into this lie that you deserve something that you don't deserve. Because the bottom line is you. You do balloons. You do balloons for a living. That's not unique, right?

[B]

It can be. It can be.

[A]

No, I'm saying, I'm saying, like, I'm

[B]

saying they're cool balloons. I did see those.

[A]

I'm saying you might do great work. And I'm not trying to minimize the service that you do or the, The. The business that you're in. But what I'm saying is, like, this is not a proprietary technology that you invented that they can't get anywhere else.

[B]

Look, this balloon has balloons inside of it, Travis.

[A]

Yeah, it's cool.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

But my point is to say that, like, by definition, you are in a relationship where the value is skewed in favor of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You doing work. Assuming this is an actual celebrity now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The caveat would be like, if it's a somebody with a bunch of fake Instagram followers or somebody who has 30,000 followers and they're claiming celebrity status, like, there. There's several exceptions here, but assuming that this is an actual celebrity name brand, whether they're famous from being an influencer on social media or their television show, celebrity, whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't matter. You have to think more like a business owner and not. And, and not get offended by that idea. Because the question for me would be, how much money would I have to spend to get that many eyeballs on my work? And if the answer is 10 times what I'm going to make on doing this project, then I will opt to do it for the exposure 100% of the time. Yeah, you like for new businesses and this seems like a newer business for or at least a smaller business for small or new businesses. Your number one barrier to growth is exposure. Number one, like the thing that you need more of is eyeballs, attention, leads. That is what you need more of. It should be your number one priority, even above like immediate profit in the business should be more exposure to getting people to see that you have.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and don't pretend like oh well, they can't afford my, like we'll do a payment plan like how much could it possibly be to set up balloon? Like that's not why they're doing it. They're just trying to negotiate better deals, which they should because they're a celebrity brand. And by the way somebody took that job that you said no to. And they will get a ton of business from doing that deal that you said no to. And then you're just going to sit there and pretend like you are the one that you should be proud of yourself, turning down this work. Like, that's. It's just, it's silly.

[B]

One I do think is that thing, you know, the photographer self awareness. Well, it's like the photographer's comment I read where it's like, I don't have to get paid for everything, but it has to benefit me. It's like. And I think there's a world in which, like. Cause I've had people that have, you know, whatever throughout the. Just, we'll stick with the podcast. But it's like I've had people that have wanted me to promote certain things, talk about certain things, have them on my show. Oh, it'd be great. You'd have this person who's whatever, where I've said no, but that's it. It's just like, no, it's not a good fit right now. I don't have to do this sarcastic, weird, or do it just so you can say, this would be great to post about later that I turn this up.

[A]

We have to preach at them in order to say no.

[B]

Yeah, because that's the other thing too is I always think about it in terms of. I think about this with book agents that, that facilitate author interviews. I've had times that I've gotten really dumb pitches for guests, but I've never responded in a snotty way. Because what about when they have a client that's willing to pay or they have a client who is a guest I want to talk to, they're not going to reach out to me. They're going to be like, that guy's a douchebag. And so anyway, this stuff drives me crazy. And the other piece I'll say of this too is. What was I going to say? It was really good. I don't know.

[A]

While you're thinking of that, I'm so

[B]

angry, I just see red.

[A]

It's a misconception that money's the only thing that's valuable in the business. There are several value levers that can be pulled at any given time. And money is one of those value levers and a good one and an effective one. And if this was just some random person down the street who's reaching out for this, who, like, is like the head of the HOA or whatever, like, that's probably not Worth the time. Again, you shouldn't respond like a douchebag. Yeah, like you should respond and just say, as much as we would love to help you out with that event, we're just at a point in our business where we've decided as an internal policy that we don't trade, you know, work for exposure or whatever or much

[B]

more professional way or more clarifying questions. Who's the celebrity? Who's that? Which I hope all that happened.

[A]

I, I would, I would really, really hope.

[B]

They're like, it's Jennifer Aniston's birthday party, you know, I don't care who the celebrity is.

[A]

Yeah, that, that's again, it's, it's entitlement that I hate. It's a lack of self awareness. It's a lack of understanding of who gains the value in the relationship the most. This is where it does not tug on one of the best value drivers in your business, which is your marketing, your exposure, the amount of people who know that you exist. You have 1800 followers and you're turning down an Instagram tag. Potential collaboration and a ton of people who would now know that you are the best at what you do. And you can use that in your marketing forever. Now when you run the ad, you can be like, here's live footage of us setting up balloons for Jennifer Aniston's kids birthday party or whatever. Like if you have one going on, reach out to us. That one piece of content would bring you more business than the business that you turn down for the sake of, I don't know what, feeling better or something like, and the whole dig about like actually support small businesses and pay for them or whatever. It's like you're just assuming that that wasn't a good way to support the small business because like I said, at the end of the day, you don't, you didn't invent a proprietary technology that they can only get from you. They're just going to be like, okay, next. And then they go to one of other, another 12 balloon companies that can offer a similar service. Maybe yours is a little bit better. They don't care. Like, they don't care that yours is going to be marginally better. They're just going to be like, oh, we'll get somebody else's balloons for free. And that person's going to be like, hell yeah, I'll work for Jennifer Aniston or whoever that celebrity is like. And they're going to get all the benefit that you turn down because your ego is too big to Put it in check and realize the actual standing that you have in the relationship with these two people. It's, it's so apparent in the podcasting world. And it drives me insane because back when we were running Guestio, it was like this big thing because we were suggesting that people paid for guests and we got met with this backlash immediately of people being like, I would never ever pay for a guest. They should be happy to be on my show because I'm exposing them to my audience. It's like, bro, I know you get 32 downloads an episode. Yeah, stop pretending like you're the one offering value to them. That person going on your show does almost zero things for them and does a lot of really good things for you. There's. That's not a bad thing. I don't understand. Like, you get in your head and you start thinking like, well, if I do that, that means I am worthless and I'm telling myself a story that I'm accepting that that means that I, that I am don't have value to bring or that I am less than. And that's not a story that I'm willing to accept. Therefore, I'm going to delude my believing that I'm way bigger than I actually am. I'm going to operate from that standpoint even though I have no reason or evidence to support that at all. It makes no sense. And like I said, it's complete lack of self awareness. And by the way, all those people that are that were whining about that stuff back in the day with their podcast stuff, guess what their podcasts are doing? Still absolutely nothing because they never. They're not willing to look at the gap from where they are now to where they want to go and then make secessions along the way in order to be able to get there.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say this because this was an example of this. And I got confused because I had just talked about the documentary that was in the top 10. But I was going to say this is a really practical example of this where you know this already. But there was a time in 2022, somebody texted me and said, hey, just saw you on tv. And I was like, what? And they said, oh, you're in the new documentary on Peacock. Oh yeah, I don't know if you remember this. And I was like, no, I've not. Nope. And they sent me the link to it. And so I watched this four part documentary series on Peacock about this topic. And then all of a sudden there was clips from my podcast at A point in the series. And I was like, what the heck? This is so weird. So I posted just a. So my immediate thought was, I'm in a show on Peacock. They pulled some clips. It wasn't something that replaces my show where they're stealing. I knew what they were doing and whatever, legally, technically, they should have reached out and licensed the clips, but that was definitely different. But immediately in my brain I went, okay, I can reach out and say, hey, use my clips and how are we going to address this? Or I can do a quick reel and say, hey guys, the show's making waves. We're on a Peacock show. Just found out. You know, I did like a humorous post.

[A]

Whatever your thing, it could be anything.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

like, just found out I'm in a documentary series. And the comments had a good amount of people who I know are well intentioned that were like, you need to sue, you need to go, you need to reach out to them, you need to do this. And again, it was a really easy decision for me to go, like, okay, if I want to do more of this stuff, and I'm not saying get run over by anybody, but it's also like, do I want to assume ill intent on the side of the filmmaker and then blast Peacock? And then every production team that's working on stuff goes like, oh, this guy that slipped through. Who knows, some legal department guy checked a box he shouldn't have checked and like approved it. And then I'm gonna upset a filmmaker who's worked on like the Ted Bundy tape, like all these things just because I can get like 500 bucks for the 10 seconds of clip, you know, versus marketing and like like you said, now I can just go on my website as seen on Peacock, hbo. But, you know, like, all these different publications, like, that's way more valuable. And that's the stuff where I go, like, you're thinking so small when you're going, like, how do I get that $200 licensing check right now? So, anyway, I thought of that example. Cause that's something where, like, again, a lot of people that are, like, looking out for you are like, bro, you need to just, like, get a lawyer. You know, it's like. That would have benefited.

[A]

Yeah. Nothing I was gonna say. And it would be different if it was, like, you stood to gain $10 million.

[B]

Yeah, that's different. I would have sued.

[A]

Yeah, rightfully. But. But, yeah, it's. It. Yeah. People. People get. It's so strange because those are the same people struggling with imposter syndrome.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yet they also buy into this lie that they're already awesome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I just don't. The opposite end of that spectrum too often, where I downplay everything that I've ever done, maybe too much, and should accept wins.

[B]

And you are.

[A]

Praise myself a little bit more when I have a win.

[B]

I. I know I try to praise you. That's why I try to praise you often to, like, keep your.

[A]

Never praise me.

[B]

That's not true. I just said you are.

[A]

No. So my. My point is, like, I. Sometimes I go a little bit too far down that road where I'm like, I'm not worthy to be in their presence type of thing. And then I have to remind myself, like, oh, well, I've done a lot of good stuff to be able to put myself in this room. But for the most part, though, I think it's the opposite problem for a lot of people. They just cannot. They cannot hold that truth in their mind that, like, this is actually worth it to sacrifice this. And like I said, it's not even a freaking sacrifice. It's a good opportunity to get great exposure, to have amazing credibility. Like, how much money would somebody else have paid to do the balloons for this person's party? Yeah, you know, just for the credibility and the exposure. And you're turning it down because you want the. I can't imagine it's a $25,000 job. You know, you're setting up balloons at a party, it's probably, what, 2,000, 5,000 maybe. Maybe I'm just wildly off on that. And it is $25,000 or something, but I can't imagine that it's something like that. Like, you're you're turning down all this stuff because you need to get this small invoice taken care of first. Like, just. Just do it.

[B]

Yeah, just do it.

[A]

Just do it.

[B]

Just do it. No. Well, what. I'll say this and I'll close out my thoughts on this, but I think it's like the whole know your worth thing and your worth in it's largely determined by what you're bringing to the table. So what you said is like, you know, I think both you and I will often downplay, like, not today. I'm riding high. I feel very confident today. I'm ready to pitch anybody that wants to do anything, or we're going to highball you. Is that a term or is it just, I'm highball everybody? But anyway, I was going to say, like, I think the sweet spot is knowing when you are bringing that value to the table where it's like, I do know when I go on a good amount of podcasts, they're benefiting way more than I am. I still think it's a net positive for me and all that sort of stuff, but I also understand situations where, like, when I reach out to someone who's like, you know, like, I'm getting Bethany and Joy Lynn's back on the show soon, who's, like, actively doing a bunch of shows and is doing really well, like, I know that I'm in a deficit asking, like, hey, please come down to me and have this conversation. It doesn't mean I think I'm a loser.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I can still add value recognition of reality, but it's also going like, it

[A]

doesn't have to degrade your belief in your.

[B]

I'm not going to make her jump through hoops to work with me.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know, just like.

[A]

Because then they're just going to be like, no. Right.

[B]

Just like, when people, you know, try to make me jump through hoops to do their show, that gets 2020 listeners.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not going to do as many, you know, like, so anyway, all that to say, like, know your worth doesn't just mean, like, think you're amazing.

[A]

But. But exactly, like, know your worth actually means know your real worth. Yeah.

[B]

Not like, oh, that can be a

[A]

good thing, but can also be like a reality check sometimes. And sometimes you need the reality check to say that, like, my worth is right around this area.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This person's not even close.

[B]

I'm in this tier.

[A]

And like you said, like, you do just a quick. A quick counting of the value proposition here. Like, what does this person have to gain from me working with them. The only answer is balloons at their party. That is the only. Per. The only thing that that person has to gain from you working with them. Now you go to the other side of the value equation and go, what do I have to gain from working with this person? It's like money. Money's one of those things. Okay, great. So I can make money from selling the job and push back on that. By the way, something besides that response, you might have been able to talk them into paying you a little bit of something. Like just being like, hey, I would love to do something with you guys

[B]

or I'll do it at cost.

[A]

That's what I was going to say is like, I can't. I can't do it completely for free because we have a lot of hard costs that go into doing these things. A lot of labor and a lot of team time and effort. But I would love to work with you. Maybe we can work something out where you just cover my cost to take care of the event for you and I'll do it on a massive discount that I don't do for anybody else. Would that work? Like, there's so many other ways to make it happen, but that's one of the things. So, like, money, okay, I have. I potentially can gain money from this situation, this relationship, okay? Credibility, authority. Great. That's another huge thing I can gain from this. Exposure, attention. Great. It's another huge thing I can gain from this. Like, write out all the things that you have to gain, and then you'll quickly see that the scales are toppled in the direction of this person being the valuable person in the equation. And that does not mean that you suck. It just is the reality of the situation. It's just that some people, the top 0.1% of. Of. Of brands, of personal brands on the face of the planet, have the ability, the needle and impact anybody's business that they touch, which is why they do so many brand deals. That's why famous people don't pay for their own products. They just get sent a bunch of free all the time. You know what I mean? It's like that used to drive me insane. It's like, this person's worth a half a billion dollars. You really think they need a free $12,000 ice? You know, plunge or cold plunge or whatever? Like, I want one of those. You know what I mean? But it's like, well, of course they're going to send that to Joe Rogan because he has the audience they want the Exposure like this is a dream scenario that you're turning down because you've diluted yourself into believing that you're just worth this much and they should be willing to pay full price and they should support small businesses like they are supporting small businesses. They're giving you an opportunity that most people will never have at their fingertips, and then you're just turning a blind eye to it. And if that's the way that you operate your business, I just don't think it's going to work out for you long term, honestly, unless you're putting in a crazy volume of effort into your sales, which you probably aren't because you would have realized how difficult it is to generate leads.

[B]

And also like that, I would have

[A]

been thankful for the exposure.

[B]

And most of the pity commenters probably aren't ordering from you and just they don't own businesses. Yeah, well, I think we've established one thing on this episode. You and I are some of the humblest guys you'll ever meet. And with that, go ahead and close this.

[A]

Well, that's it for this episode of the show. Thanks for tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure. Right now. Get up to 45 off with minimum purchase plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply.