CO-HOST | Make Money in the Middle (Hybrid Entrepreneurship & Building Your Own Path)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: CO-HOST | Make Money in the Middle (Hybrid Entrepreneurship & Building Your Own Path)
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest/Co-Host: Jo
Date: March 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a candid conversation between host Travis Chappell and his co-host Jo, continuing a deep discussion about "hybrid entrepreneurship"—the idea of building wealth and fulfillment by pursuing multiple paths simultaneously and resisting the pressure to become either a corporate lifer or a "burn the boats" entrepreneur. They share personal experiences, lessons learned, and practical strategies for finding balance, building skills, and creating your own path to financial and personal fulfillment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hybrid Entrepreneurship: Between 9-to-5 and Full-On Entrepreneur

• Jo’s Journey: Jo discusses his evolution from non-traditional beginnings—spending years on the mission field earning very little—to building a sustainable, enjoyable work-life structure as a content creator and collaborator for Travis, all while growing his own show and pursuits on the side.
  • "If I look back...the biggest mistake I made early on was listening to entrepreneurs...they're like, burn the boats and go do it. And then I started doing that when I could have rode it out a little longer." (03:20–04:33)
• Balancing Act: Both Travis and Jo emphasize that you don’t have to give up security and go all-in overnight:
  • "I think more people need to do that, where it doesn’t mean leaving your job." (05:39)
  • Travis describes this as the rise of “quasi entrepreneurship”—leveraging gig economy principles as part of a personalized career path. (10:57)
• Treating Employers as Clients: Jo reframes the employer-employee relationship as just another client relationship—empowering people to see their 9-to-5 as one source of income and fulfillment among many.
  • "It’s not inherently more honorable...someone’s paying you money to do something for them. Find the best thing for you that’ll be secure, and work like hell on your vision." (11:24–12:02)

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2. Practical Strategies for Building Your Own Path

• Leverage Spare Time: Jo shares specific hacks for maximizing productivity (and internet reach) by stacking creative side projects during downtime:
  • "Sit there when you’re watching a Netflix show...send out pitches to guests for that two hour period. Or...I’m editing content with one headphone in and also watching the show...I’m getting 2.9 million views on my podcast content...because I’m sitting there doing it." (09:05–09:57)
• Half Truths & Balance: The concept of keeping “one cheek” in each world—a colorful way to talk about blending stability with passion projects.
  • "If you have one cheek in your 9-to-5 world and your business world...I have one and a half cheeks fully dedicated to the Travis Chappell machine, but I also have a little cheek left over to grow my show, pitch guests..." (09:58–10:22)
• Automation, Outsourcing, & Focus: Jo emphasizes the power of outsourcing and focusing on high-impact work to free up time for the work that matters to you.

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3. Continual Reassessment and Skill Building

• Iterative Identity: Jo frames his professional journey as an ongoing “jigsaw” of skills and preferences:
  • "Constantly re-examining...I thought I wanted to travel a lot, but I hate doing this...I love coaching, oh, I hate coaching in this format...People need to get used to doing that kind of jigsaw approach to building the life that they actually want." (13:50–14:51)
• Follow Fulfillment over Titles: Jo describes evolving from video projects to podcasting and finding unexpected fulfillment:
  • "People ask, 'Do you want to do film projects?' I feel fulfilled doing the content I’m doing right now...I would have slapped myself 10 years ago for even considering that." (18:19)

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4. Opportunity, Flexibility, and Modern Realities

• Embracing Uncertainty: Travis underlines that certainty is an illusion in the current economy:
  • "Probably the big thing...is that they thought they were going down a secure path, based on historical evidence...but that’s something you’re going to have to give up. Life, a life well lived, requires being comfortable in uncertainty to some degree." (20:37–21:40)
• Gratitude Amidst Challenge: While acknowledging the frustrations and inequities facing younger generations, Travis and Jo encourage listeners to focus on the unprecedented opportunities available today:
  • "There’s never been more opportunity to create a life you want. The problem is, it requires more work, more thought, more flexibility...But you get to figure it out." (20:37–22:17)

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5. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Relentless Mindset of Content Creators:
  Jo: “The stupidest thing about the stuff we do is, like, you’re always thinking about it. You have the flexibility of location...but that’s dumb.” (24:23–24:32)
• On Complaining vs. Action:
  Travis: "If there was opportunity repellent in a spray, it would be complaining. Complaining and whining is only ever going to bring you more things to complain and whine about and not give you anything to be grateful for." (25:09)
• On Generational Change:
  Travis: “Each generation is defined by the challenges they overcame...Either do something about it or don’t. But only one of them gets you what you want, right?” (25:54–26:09)

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Notable Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:01 | Jo and Travis discuss hidden layers of creative work and managing multiple jobs | | 03:20–04:33 | Jo on the dangers of “burn the boats” entrepreneurship advice | | 05:39 | Hybrid model ≠ quitting your job cold turkey | | 09:05–09:57 | Jo on multitasking, micro-productivity, and racking up millions of views | | 09:58–10:22 | “One cheek” in each world—a metaphor for balancing security and side hustles | | 11:24–12:02 | Reframing your employer as just another client | | 13:50–14:51 | Continuous skill reevaluation and “jigsaw” career building | | 18:19 | Jo on shifting from visual storytelling to podcasting and unexpected fulfillment | | 20:37–21:40 | Travis on letting go of the illusion of security and embracing uncertainty | | 25:09 | “Opportunity repellent in a spray would be complaining...” | | 25:54–26:09 | Generational perspective—do something, or don’t |

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Takeaways

• You can build a life “in the middle”: There is no shame in keeping a main job for security while launching your own side venture—or even making both part of your long-term plan.
• Action beats complaining: Progress and clarity come only from trying, failing, adjusting, and continuing to act.
• Your path will be iterative: The journey requires ongoing self-examination, skill development, and a willingness to shift as your interests and circumstances change.
• Focus on value, not titles: Whether you’re an employee, freelancer, or hybrid, what matters is building a setup that serves your financial and personal goals.

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Tone & Language

The episode is frank, conversational, and often humorous, marked by playful banter and honest talk about the messiness of building a fulfilling, prosperous life in uncertain times.

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Final Word

"Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank."
— Travis (26:12)

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Transcript

[Travis]

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[Travis]

And breathe.

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[Jo]

1-800-contacts.

[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast, presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today's episode is basically just a continuation of our previous conversation that we split off into two parts because we ended up talking about it for a lot longer than we thought we were going to. So this is part two of that conversation. Please enjoy.

[Jo]

My daughter did. Was like. Was because she was getting mad because I was working. And I said, stop that. And I'm just, I'll do what I want. I'm work.

[Travis]

No, I'm the man of the house.

[Jo]

No, I. No. But she literally was like. Was like. I was like, I work on more than one thing. She's like, what? Her terror was telling her that, like, you know, he works, like, pretty much, like, two main jobs, right?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

She's like, what? And she's like, yeah, she. He works on stuff with Travis and then he works on his podcast. She's like, I thought he just did the podcast. It's like, no, you don't know how simple life would be if I just did the podcast. But it was like this. She had, like, this weird, like, her third eye open and she's like, oh, you're working, like, two things. Like, she's piecing together, like, the way that it all functions.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

And it's like, yeah. There's like a creative layout of, like, all these things that keep all these opportunities open.

[Travis]

Right. You know, and which is why you can do dance. Yeah. And live at these cool apartments.

[Jo]

And if I work really hard, someday I'll be able to afford dance for myself, too. Which is really what it's all been.

[Travis]

The goal.

[Jo]

It's like the creed, the scuba. If I can't scuba, what's all this been about?

[Travis]

What's all this been about anyway?

[Jo]

Well, we went super long. I feel like there's a lot of things that we could keep talking about

[Travis]

before we wrap up though. I want.

[Jo]

No, no, no. Please shut it down.

[Travis]

I feel like more people could relate to you in this story than me.

[Jo]

Someone super wealthy like you. Yes.

[Travis]

No, the, the. Because you are like entrepreneur adjacent.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Versus like I, I'm very, you know, salesperson. Entrepreneurial. Entrepreneurial. Like better go. Yes. Make this thing happen.

[Jo]

Better than me. Yes.

[Travis]

No, no, no.

[Jo]

You made it very clear.

[Travis]

Okay, well, you know what I'm saying though. So how has this played out for you? Like finding. Because you didn't like go to a prestigious university and get job offers out the door. Like I'm saying you were in poverty on the mission field when you were 23. Yes. Getting paid like six grand a year or whatever. Like how did you.

[Jo]

Yes, I was a loser.

[Travis]

Piece it together to now being 30, making a good income, putting your family in a good situation.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like how, how have you found that process?

[Jo]

Yeah, well, I think, I think the, the biggest, the biggest thing that ruined that has stalled my progress and has like, like if I look back because everybody goes and goes. If I knew what I knew now, then I would be so much further ahead. And I think like the biggest mistake I made early on was listening to entrepreneurs and a lot of people that are like, as much as like you could listen to content that's like doom and gloom and is like you're going to get steamrolled, which like I listen to a fair amount of that stuff and I think there's like, I think that's where you and I like, if we sat and did like a. The purple pod and we talked about like politics. Like I think sometimes there's a piece there where it's like, it's like you can't keep your head in the sand. Like the system needs to change and this, this sucks. Like the direction that the country's going to, like the, the stuff she's saying. I'm like, yes, I agree with all of this. This, this sucks. But I also sit there and listen to like. Like, if you believe you can do this and you pursue it, you can do it. And I believe that too. And I think like the middle ground of that is important to hold. And I think like the biggest mistake I made early on was I got fed up with the doom and gloom of the 9 to 5 and then would listen to the super motivational entrepreneurs. They're like, burn the fucking boats and like go do it. And then I started doing that when I could have wrote it out a little longer on the 9 to 5 and kept doing the thing I was doing. I think my situation a little different because I was literally like not sleepy at night and then working all day and it was not good. But I think what I've found now is like, and I've had this conversation with you a million times where it's like, I don't want to go find the clients. Like, I don't want to go sell people. Like, I don't know how to do that. I don't like. And I'm. I see that knowing that I've gotten better at that and like, I can do those things. But I came to a point where it's like, I realized what I wanted, which is like, I'm more than happy to produce a show. I'm more than happy to create a shit ton of content. And I'm more than happy to like, have your stuff. Like, I sit there and like, think about your stuff as much, if not more as my own. But it's one person, sort of like me balancing 10 clients and trying to sell 60 and like, how do I leverage this and having that, which is like my, my main job. And then also like, like this last weekend, it's like, I can sit there and go, I'm going to crank out as much content as possible for myself to build this on the side. Yeah, like, I think more people need to do that. Where it's like, it doesn't mean leaving your job.

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[Travis]

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[Jo]

And quitting the rat race and doing all that. It's like find the thing that's actually Going to, like, take care of you.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

But then also, like, on your weekend, I talked about in the last episode, like, the little acts of resistance to, like, just things you don't like. But it's like I talked to someone the other day who was asking for advice and I said, sit there when you're watching a Netflix show, which is going to explain the plot to you in the background as you're watching, and send out pitches to guests for that two hour period. Or for me, I'm watching through Star Trek Enterprise right now, Season three. Such a good show. But I'm literally sitting there and I'm editing content with one headphone in and also watching the show and I'm missing a lot, but I'm also putting out, you know, like, I'm getting 2.9 million views on my podcast content on, you know, Facebook the last month because I'm sitting there doing it. So, like, I would just tell people, like, like, I think you can, like,

[Travis]

you can hold half truths.

[Jo]

You can have half of your, like, if you have one cheek in the. I love the one cheek analogy for so many things, but if you have one cheek in your 9 to 5 world and you're, you're your business world or whatever that looks like, or a couple clients, whatever that looks like. Like, I'm not pure nine to five, but, like, sure, I have one cheek. That is, I, I would say I have one and a half cheeks fully dedicated to the Travis Chapel machine.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

But I also have a little cheek left over to sit into my, you know, let me grow my show, let me pitch some guests. Let me, let me take some time. Like, my content recently was like, we got done recording. I recorded for like 30 minutes and sat here and did it. And like, that content's gotten a ton of views and it took next to no time for me at all. And I literally outsourced the script writing to somebody else. Like, find the ways that you can leverage it to add in extra things without just fully burning the boats or fully giving up to the system. And, like, I think you can have a pretty cool life in the middle of those, Those things.

[Travis]

Yeah. I think, I think there's just going to be a wave of. It's like quasi entrepreneurship. Yeah. Where it's not people who are fully engaging in the concept of, like, building a company that has 75 employees. It's just people. It's sort of like the, the marriage of the gig economy as it relates to entrepreneurship to some degree.

[Jo]

If you think about it like your business is A, like the business you work for primarily is a client.

[Travis]

Sure.

[Jo]

You know what I mean? Like, like it's not. It's not inherently more honorable. Yeah. So like, so like, treat it like a client. Like, it's not cooler for you to quit your 9 to 5 and then go work for a client where if you also don't get your work done, like, they're going to fire you too.

[Travis]

Right. Exactly.

[Jo]

Either thing. Like, at the end of the day, someone's paying you money to do something for them. Find the best thing that works for you that'll actually be secure, and work like hell on the vision side of, like, your thing that you want to take off on the side, worst case scenario, you're spending all your extra time doing something that's very meaningful to you.

[Travis]

Right.

[Jo]

And best case scenario, eventually, you know, in 10 years, you're going, I've built a channel where, like, I can choose to do this. Right. Like, I can say no to certain things. I can. Like, I had that the other day. Someone's like, hey, I'd love for you to do this thing that would pay well. And. And I said, you know what? I don't want to do that. Right. Like, in the short term, that would be amazing. And like, yeah, hook me up. Let's make some money. Right? But I know, like, in the next five years, my own stuff will surpass what that quick little one off thing is. So I don't know. I think the hybrid model is. Is key and like, find the things you don't want to do and then find job opportunities that take those things away from you and give you more time to do this. Like, even working with you, Like, I'm not seeing. They're going like, give me more sales calls, Travis, and let me get people into work. It's like, I want to double down on X, Y, and Z, and I'll just do more of that. That makes me valuable here and I don't have to worry about all the things that come with being a pure entrepreneur where you're like, let me sell somebody and let me. Whatever, whatever all those extra things are that I just don't want to mess with. So I don't know.

[Travis]

But the clarity that you've gotten doing that, though, has only come from you trying all those things. Like, when we first started working together, I didn't have enough work for you to be full time with me. So it was like, I remember when you quit the job that you were working, I remember even at that time feeling like a personal level of respons responsibility to be like, oh man, I gotta go find him some clients so like, he can keep doing my stuff and be able to afford to pay his family and stuff, you know what I mean? And then eventually it turned into where we're able to work something out full time. And then it was. And. But then it was the clarity that you had to be like, I'd honestly rather just do your stuff and do more of it than have the stress of having 12 clients and you're one

[Jo]

of them and making a little bit more. Yeah. And that's again, that's where I think it's like a puzzle. It's like constantly re examining and even there's been times, I mean, again, not to make this a. Maybe this is a two parter, I don't know. But it's like even that stuff, like, there's been plenty of times I've sat down and been like, I thought I wanted to travel a lot, but also like, I hate doing this, you know? And like, or hey, like, like there's been plenty of times where I've said, like, I love coaching. Oh, I hate coaching in this format. Or I love doing this thing, you know, so it's like constantly reevaluate that stuff and figure out like what you want your situation to look like and then kind of roll from there. But yeah, I think like constantly. I think constantly reevaluating is, is the key. And like, again, do that with your personal content. Like, I like making YouTube videos. I hate doing it. I like, like, I like short form, I don't like long form. Like, people need to get used to like doing that kind of like, I don't know, jigsaw approach to building the life that they actually want.

[Travis]

And, and throughout that whole, Jo were always willing to like, go back to the drawing board on your own skill set and what that meant for how you were going to be able to monetize it. Whereas like, at the beginning it was you filming.

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[Travis]

that you're not entirely sure it'll work out.

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[Travis]

Embarrassed?

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[Travis]

Church promo videos, you know, and doing like on on location shoots and then editing this full project and things like that. And now it's basically like podcast content and then cutting and clipping. It's like, well, when we first started working together, it wasn't like, you know, you were a social media clipper, it was just that you were a video editor and that was a skill that you had. Well before that skill of video editing turned into how do we leverage that across the businesses that we're working on?

[Jo]

Well, and before that it was like I wanted to be the guy going out and filming. You know, it's like I want to be the person setting up these shots and doing this thing. And it's like, then it was like I wanted to be the person, you know, I'll spend more time editing that or, like, fixing what someone else shot. And then it was like, like, the idea of me even switching. Like, I always tell people, like, going from video to podcasting. It's like, I had so much resistance in the beginning of, like. But I want to visually tell a story.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

And it's like, now I find I've told some people, I'm like, the idea, like. Because people go, like, are you ever gonna go back to doing, like, do you want to do some kind of film project? I'm like, I feel so fulfilled doing the content I'm doing right now on YouTube. And it's like, I would have slapped myself 10 years ago for, like, even considering that option. But, like, I'm fulfilled by telling meaningful stories. So, like, if I feel like I did that in audio or video, like, you just have to be open to what that looks like in that timeframe, and it might look different. You know, there's going to be other mediums in the next, you know, couple years where it's like, I like this medium too, or I like this thing too. You know, it's like, it's going to keep changing and evolving. You have to be willing to change and evolve with it versus staying stuck in the systems that are failing you.

[Travis]

It's sort of the yes and approach where instead of just saying, I can only do this one thing, it's like, well, I could do that, but also, maybe I'll do this. I'll do a little bit of this. And. Well, let's see. Well, I didn't really like that that much. Okay, well, I'm going to add. I'm going to sprinkle this in a little bit over here. Oh, I actually really enjoyed that. It's only the clarity is only going to come from the continued action that you're taking, not from, like, there's never been an opportunity gained from sulking and complaining about the situation that you were given.

[Jo]

Unless you create a really good podcast where you do that all the time,

[Travis]

where you only sulk and complain.

[Jo]

Yeah, but I mean, hey, that's an option too.

[Travis]

It is an option. Hey, if you're willing to work.

[Jo]

Some of us have started podcasts where you talk about your past trauma and you. You deal with. It's like, even if you are really fed up with the system, you can create content about that.

[Travis]

How fed up with the system?

[Jo]

Like, yeah, yeah, there's. There's.

[Travis]

Well, like, she's doing. Yeah, you know, she obviously does that.

[Jo]

Say, a homestead journey.

[Travis]

170 something thousand. 173. I can't see 176,000 176,000 subscribers on YouTube. And it's.

[Jo]

It says 173. I can't see it.

[Travis]

Oh, look, I was right. Imagine that. But, yeah, she's 2400 comments like, she's literally. She's striking a chord with a lot of people. So she's sitting here talking about the lack of opportunity while also being in the midst of an amazing opportunity vehicle. You know what I mean?

[Jo]

Literally in her opportunity vehicle, in her actual vehicle.

[Travis]

So that, that's. That's the one thing is like, yes, the economy is in a weird place right now. Yes, young people even have, in my opinion, a right to be disillusioned by the hand that they were given or that they were dealt. However, there's also never been more opportunity to create a life that you want to have. The problem is, is that it requires more work, it requires more thought, it requires more flexibility, it requires. It requires comfort with less certainty, which is probably the big one. Probably the big thing that most people are disillusioned by is that they thought that they were. They were going down a secure path based on histor evidence that this path in the past has been secure and now no longer is secure. But that's something I think you're just going to have to give up, because I. I just. I don't believe that any of us can be certain about any path that we're on, and that life, a life well lived, requires being comfortable in uncertainty to some degree. But. So the sooner you let go of that, probably the better. But that's why. That's what I. What I think. Like, the, the good news, bad news there is, like, you know, bad news is, you know, you're gonna have to figure it out. The good news is you get to figure it out. Meaning you get like, it wasn't an option for our parents or especially our grandparents to just do what they're passionate about and make money doing that. It was like, go work the factory job or starve. You know what I mean? It wasn't. They didn't just have the ability to go build. And maybe you envy that. Maybe you're like, I wish I could just go work the factory job.

[Jo]

Sometimes I wish, Jarvis, but sometimes I. I wish. I wish I could just go clock in and clock out. Go. I. I've. I used to pass a factory in South Carolina.

[Travis]

Is that true?

[Jo]

Yeah. And they paid really well. Actually, they paid really well. For the area. Because the minimum wage There is $7. It's crazy. I can't imagine clocking into McDonald's. I mean, shout out if you do. And I. I frequented the McDonald's in South Carolina. I went there so much. But I was like. Like, I can't imagine you're making $7. Which, again, that's where I was. Like, the system's broken. You shouldn't. Like, nobody should be having to live off $7 an hour. Like, minimum. Wait, I don't know. There's so many things of that, but I was like, I would pass. The factory was like, 20. I think it was like, 29 bucks an hour or something. I was like, I could do that. Imagine just going in, and I go. I feel like Trump, bing, bong, bong. But you're screwing on this wheel to this thing. 29 bucks an hour. Clock out, leave.

[Travis]

Yep.

[Jo]

Just don't. You don't think about screwing that thing on. That's the only downside of the things that we do is, like, it's stupid. Hold on. I'll say this. It's stupid. I'm getting upset. I'm with this lady. Let's get out of here. I was in. I was talking to Jackie, and she was talking. I was looking at her wallpaper on her phone. She didn't know I got her phone. I said, ah, let me get your data. No, I was looking at her phone, and I said, oh, your wallpaper's so cute, you know? And then she said something about, like, you know, not changing all the time or whatever. And I said, my wallpaper for the last year was. I got a random idea at, like, one in the morning for a reel for you. I was laying in bed. I was like, that would be a great reel for Travis. And I typed it in my notepad and I screenshot it and set as my wallpaper. So I'd remember to do it the first thing in the morning. So it was like, Trump, real react, like, written there. Screenshot wallpaper that was, like, there for a year. And that's the stupidest thing about the stuff we do is, like, you're always thinking about it.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jo]

But you have the flexibility of, like, location and all that sort of stuff. But anyway, this just an aside. It's just that. That's dumb. Yeah, that's.

[Travis]

That's.

[Jo]

It's not my wallpaper anymore.

[Travis]

I changed it the other day, if you like. It would be a bummer to realize that that path is not an option when you wanted that to be an option. But like I said, with that comes the. Your, your ability to go create whatever you want to create and live that version of life as well. And so the bottom line is sitting and complaining about it is going to do nothing for anybody. So stop, stop complaining about it and go do something about it. Whether, whether you view that as being trying to affect change on a government level or you just picking up side hustles and working on something on the side, whatever it is like, you gotta, you gotta do something. Because sitting there and whining about it is not going to do anything. It's definitely not going to bring you any opportunity. Like if there was there's opportunity repellent in a spray, it would be complaining. Like, the complaining and whining is only ever going to bring you more things to complain and whine about and not give you anything to be grateful for. So be grateful for what you have. Be grateful for all the amazing things that we get to be a part of. For the. The fact that most people in this country are not starving and wondering where their next meal is coming from, that we have access to clean water, that we have western medicine. Like, there's a lot of really cool things to be grateful for in the midst of some things that are challenging and difficult to overcome. But you know, each generation is defined by the challenges that they overcame. And this has been going to be the one of the ones for us to really tackle, I think. So either do something about it it or don't. But only one of them gets you

[Jo]

what you want, right? We'll go ahead and close this out.

[Travis]

Anyway, that's it for today's episode. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Catch you next episode. Peace.