Sponsor Announcer 2 (1:43)

What's that?

Travis (1:43)

Porno.

Eric (1:43)

I was trying. No, I was trying to think if this is okay for the show, but it might venture. There's a really funny clip though, where. Where it's like guys that are like. I'll just talk about. There's guys that are Electricians or something and they're like in this regulation, like, I've seen this. No, but it's a clip people always share and. And it's like two Electricians and they're cutting a hole in the wall and the guy's like, that looks like a Glorial. And the young electrician is like, what's that? He's like, you just wait on this side of the Wall for a second and I'll show you.

Travis (2:19)

I don't think we're in the same algorithms.

Eric (2:21)

It's crazy, dude. No, you only get the second half after the sketch at the beginning anyway, but microdrama's taking off and this lady on Instagram named Tatum R. Hunter from the Washington Post, she. She dove into the world of micro dramas. I was curious about these too because I was like, these are highly produced.

Travis (2:40)

Yeah.

Eric (2:40)

But also like, are they making a bunch of TikTok rewards? Like what's going on with microdramas? So yeah.

Travis (2:46)

What's the end goal?

Eric (2:47)

Watch and see. Yeah. How's that?

Narrator/Reporter (2:51)

The boppers that you're seeing on TikTok with the.

Eric (2:53)

She says. So she says. I'm going to try to play it again. I hate playing Instagram videos. It's so I.

Travis (3:00)

Let's try it this time.

Narrator/Reporter (3:02)

Fake. But those weird little bite sized soap operas that you're seeing on TikTok with the sexy billionaires and age gap romances are actually a giant industry that's rivaling traditional streaming apps. Unintended pregnancies, vicious bullying, bad acting and all.

Eric (3:15)

Sounds like my high school growing up.

Travis (3:17)

Hey.

Eric (3:18)

Unintentional pregnancies, fierce bullying and bad acting.

Narrator/Reporter (3:21)

Bad acting on these little 60 second episodes. When I started looking into the apps that host these, I found that not only are they more expensive than Netflix or hbo, their user numbers are starting to rival those of traditional streaming apps. Drama Box here. More monthly active users than Hulu or Paramount plus.

Eric (3:39)

What?

Travis (3:40)

That's crazy. I've never even heard of that.

Eric (3:44)

Did you like how I said like I haven't watched this clip before? Yeah.

Sponsor Announcer 2 (3:47)

What that.

Eric (3:47)

Whoa. That's insane. Isn't that.

Travis (3:49)

I have actually watched this crazy dude before and I do think that that's crazy. More monthly active users than Hulu or Paramount plus.

Eric (3:56)

That's crazy.

Travis (3:58)

On like it's literally just an app full of short form dramas.

Eric (4:01)

More expensive. How much is Drama Box? My algorithm's about to get mega destroyed once I search this phrase. 999 to 1999 per week.

Travis (4:13)

That's. Dude, that blows my mind.

Eric (4:17)

Hold on. And it has high cost short form content model with in app coin purchases for episodes ranging from 4.99 to 29.99.

Travis (4:27)

Holy.

Eric (4:27)

Some users report expensive annual options to unlock content. Holy moly. Someone asked on Reddit, is it dumb to pay for Drama Box? Yes.

Travis (4:35)

Yes it is.

Eric (4:36)

Anyway, let's get back to our.

Travis (4:38)

That's wild. So like I literally just thought this ex on Tik Tok As a way to like.

Eric (4:43)

Because it all. It all says, go back. Go check out the rest of the episode on.

Travis (4:48)

That's crazy.

Eric (4:49)

But there.

Travis (4:49)

People are paying money to get the, like, last scene in the episode or something.

Eric (4:55)

I actually watched a video with an actor, and they said when they shoot these, they'll be like, okay, make this part really good, because this is paywalled, which is crazy direction. Yeah, you're doing really bad.

Travis (5:08)

Now what I want you to do is be really shitty for the first

Eric (5:11)

few minutes to hook them, which shouldn't

Travis (5:12)

be difficult for you. Yeah.

Eric (5:14)

To hook them to the paid content. But I guess it's better. I mean, there's not many situations where the stuff beyond the paywall is better. You know what I mean? Usually you go to the paywall and they dump the extra stuff.

Travis (5:25)

It's just closing the open loop.

Eric (5:26)

All right, so there's drama box. Okay, here we go.

Narrator/Reporter (5:30)

It is really easy to sleep on the popularity of the romance genre. Romance might be the most popular literary genre, but it often gets shoved into a corner and made fun of because it's primarily enjoyed by women. So now these apps are exploding in popularity.

Eric (5:42)

Name one of these apps from the drama box. Okay. All right.

Narrator/Reporter (5:46)

Most of us have never heard of them. Meanwhile, remember how much we talked about Quibi, an app enjoyed by nearly no one? These companies are among the first.

Eric (5:53)

When I heard about Quibi, I almost took my own life because I was like, cinema is dead.

Travis (6:00)

Yeah.

Eric (6:01)

It made it depressed.

Travis (6:02)

You know what's crazy about that is, like, that that didn't work with how much money they had and how many a list actors they. They spied on.

Eric (6:13)

I know exactly why it didn't work,

Travis (6:14)

but I'm saying, like, it makes sense when you. In retrospect, it's easy to say to make sense, but it does make sense that it's because it's not the slop that people are used to seeing on TikTok. So it feels like this is just, like, natural.

Eric (6:28)

It felt like I'm watching Parks and Rec vertically.

Travis (6:31)

Yeah.

Eric (6:32)

Why am I doing that? I don't know.

Narrator/Reporter (6:34)

A scripted content designed for attention spans shaped by the attention economy. An executive at one of these companies told me that they literally use algorithms to determine what plot points keep people engaged and when. And then they do it again to recreate that success. TikTok and infinite scroll Feeds have conditioned us to be craving that next hit of dopamine while we're consuming content each little.

Eric (6:54)

So you're like, brilliant business. Civilization's over.

Travis (6:58)

Literally.

Eric (6:58)

Yeah.

Travis (6:59)

Exactly.

Eric (6:59)

It's like, oh, this is, this is brilliant. Business smart. If I did this as my business, I would feel like I'm a super villain.

Travis (7:07)

I would feel like I would. Yeah, exactly. I feel like I'm actively contributing to

Eric (7:11)

the downfall of algorithms to figure out what type of story point will gain the most interest to get them to the paywall.

Travis (7:17)

No matter how crappy the story is or how sloppy. Like, because exactly what happens is with these like short form, attention grabbing videos is they have to, they have to do it with like the most terrible content possible with like what she's saying, with like age gap romances and like all this other stuff.

Eric (7:36)

Those are very big right now.

Travis (7:38)

Not the greatest thing. It's just like, yeah, that's, that's terrible,

Narrator/Reporter (7:43)

terrible news episode contains enough sex, violence, mostly against women and cliffhangers to keep us scrolling on to the next one. And even if many of us aren't noticing these apps, big creators and Hollywood types are, we're gonna see a lot more big name writers, directors, producers.

Sponsor Announcer 2 (7:59)

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Travis (10:11)

that you're not entirely sure it'll work

Sponsor Announcer 2 (10:12)

out, and it can be hard to make that leap of faith. Trust me, I know this. When I started my podcast, I wasn't even sure what I was doing, to be honest with you. What if nobody listens? What if I make a fool of myself? What if I'm embarrassed? You know, what if nobody buys stuff that I put out there? Now I know that I was right and believe in myself in launching this podcast and subsequent businesses that come along with it, despite all the fears and hesitations. It also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Magic Spoon to brands just getting started. You can get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. Accelerate your efficiency. Whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing products, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. There's really no excuses anymore people, because Shopify literally does all of this stuff for you. And did I mention that the iconic purple Shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's from Shopify. It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less carts going abandoned and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com TMM go to shopify.com TMM that's shopify.com TM M M

Narrator/Reporter (11:47)

getting involved with this format and experimenting with genres besides romance. Already one of these companies, Real Short, has a reality dating show, Love island style thing and a documentary about Luigi Mangioni. So what do you think? Could you see yourself getting into vertical mini dramas or is this the attention economy run amok?

Eric (12:05)

I just set up an account myself. Myself.

Travis (12:08)

I mean it's really easy to sit here and be like, I would never. But that's also what like our parents said about texting, you know what I mean? So I don't know, I guess if it. I, I mean I, I'll sit here and point fingers about the dumb romance stuff all day, but then as soon as they make one that's like some sort of action comedy something, it's like, oh, well, maybe I'll check that out. I don't. I can't see myself paying money for it. That seems crazy. Like following the accounts on TikTok is one thing, but to go to a streaming app and pay the same that I'm paying to have access to like James Bond movies to watch this stuff seems, seems wild. But I mean people have spent money on dumber things and we'll continue to spend money on stuff like this. To me, you know what this is? This is what this is. Women's only fans.

Eric (12:58)

Okay?

Travis (12:59)

That's what it is. Like, like romance novels are like porn for women.

Eric (13:04)

Well, you know what I thought it was. To me it's just the new gen soap opera.

Travis (13:09)

Yeah.

Eric (13:09)

Like telling nevertheless.

Travis (13:10)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's kind of my point is like women will spend money on these romance stories, these like fantasy romance stories. The same way men will spend money on onlyfans creators that just get to the point. You know what I mean?

Eric (13:24)

I'm trying to just. You keep talking. I'm trying to find this clip I saw of an actor talking about working on these.

Travis (13:31)

Well, I mean, I guess that'll be the thing that determines whether or not it's going to continue going forward is if there's, if people continue paying money for it because the thing is as an actor, you're just going to go wherever you get paid. You know what I mean? Like some people are going to be opposed to doing it because they just don't want to do those types of projects. But there's. For every actor that says no to this, there's a thousand lining up behind the door to get some form of attention, regardless of if it's for something like this or a Martin Scorsese film.

Eric (14:01)

You know what I will say though?

Travis (14:03)

No, I don't.

Eric (14:04)

There is one good element to this which is like it's a lot more work available for people living in places like LA or whatever. You know what I mean? Like it. There is a benefit there.

Travis (14:16)

Seven billion dollar global industries I'm trying to find.

Eric (14:20)

We're on the uncharted territory now. I'm just in the short video tab. There was a video I watched where someone was talking about what it's like filming them. Actor on what it's like. Because there's also a lot of stuff where people are like, it's not sag. There's a lot of weird like. Like it's very toxic. Which it's like, yeah, that makes sense. Oh man. Where is it?

Travis (14:43)

What's that? Morning brew one. Did they comment on it? Go down the coffee cup right there. Did they comment on it?

Eric (14:49)

Let's see, let's see.

Travis (14:50)

I'd be curious if they.

Eric (14:53)

This is one of the first times in. In recent entertainment. What are we on? Including when you really throw expose on. This is kind of. What's this one? Let's pick one here. Pick one of these videos and let's see what they say.

Travis (15:04)

It's blowing my mind that people are actually paying money for it, you know? You know, Instagram has this really cool feature. It's called saving. I know you can like save the video.

Eric (15:12)

I've been doing better. I even went in, I even created a little group with you and Jackie and I add little things in there and then I forgot about it till just now.

Travis (15:22)

Well, this is riveting.

Eric (15:24)

Good. This Reddit poster. Someone says my experience is an actor working on Chinese verticals and microdramas. Do you want to see that?

Travis (15:31)

That seems like a crazy thing to do.

Eric (15:34)

Let's do this. But a lot of them are though. I also noticed that like a lot of them don't seem like they're US productions or at least not US companies creating it. Yeah, okay, here it is. We'll do this instead. Because I couldn't find what I wanted my experiences as an actor on Chinese verticals and micro dramas. I've seen a few posts recently asking for thoughts on working on vertical or micro dramas being filmed in China. So I just wanted to share my experiences, personal or anything I directly witnessed on three different verticals. I got cast in this year as a China based female British actor in supporting roles. Her first vertical vertical. One agent was respectful, paid well and promptly. Which is the opposite of a lot of the stories I'VE heard was communicative through the process. Accommodation was good. I got my script in advance. I also heard that's another thing is like, they get handed, like, random pages, like, do these lines.

Travis (16:25)

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. They're basically just finding interchangeable slop instead of having one congruent, purposeful story.

Eric (16:32)

I got my script advance. All crew was respectful and kind. The lead actor sometimes had to negative. The lead actor sometimes had to work in freezing, sometimes wet conditions up to 18 hours a day. And although when the lead actor collapsed from exhaustion, they allowed her to go back to the hotel, she was back on set in the morning the next day. I love that. It's like, got paid well, got the script in advance. Lead actor collapsed from exhaustion. Almost died.

Travis (16:56)

If there were a downside.

Eric (16:58)

Vertical two, excellent crew was a positive. Took good care of the actor's reasonable schedule. Actors had the ability to suggest changes to line. Agent paid promptly. Negative. Poor communication leading to considerable stress for me. Poor accommodation and low pay.

Travis (17:12)

Well, that just sounds like acting.

Eric (17:14)

That sounds like acting, baby. Vertical number three, Dude. I heard a stat the other day about saga, and it was. It was, in order to have health insurance for SAG, you have to make more than $25,000 a year.

Travis (17:28)

Yeah.

Eric (17:29)

And they were saying, like, 90% of sack doesn't help.

Travis (17:33)

I was gonna say I heard it was less than 10%.

Eric (17:34)

Yeah, yeah, it was less than 10% actually, as health insurance.

Travis (17:37)

Yeah.

Eric (17:37)

Which is not so. All right. Vertical three. Got a deposit beforehand. Was positive.

Travis (17:44)

That's the only positive thing.

Eric (17:46)

Negative.

Travis (17:47)

12 paragraphs.

Eric (17:48)

Here we go, baby. Negative. I agreed to the job based on what the producer told me and the lines he sent me. I asked twice for the full script, but he only provided a character report which had my lines only, no other lines or context. The lines and role as a teacher seemed innocuous enough, so on that basis, I accepted the job.

Travis (18:04)

Sounds like the start to a porno.

Eric (18:05)

Well, I have to imagine there's a lot of creeps that are like, do this sexually charged short and we're filming in this airbnb with three people and there's no nobody there to protect you. On the way to the airport, they finally sent the full script, and I immediately saw my character as part of a violent scene which involved what I would regard as action. According to the script, I'd fall on the ground, get stamped on my head, would be grabbed and pushed into a bucket of water, and I had to thrash wildly while submerged. I didn't know about any of this advance So I couldn't have agreed to it. The lines I received gave no indication of the situation the character was in. I told him I wasn't willing to film the scene. They told me it wasn't violent nor did it constitute action. Actually, it was ordinary acting. It implied I was not professional for not being willing to do it. Their attitude toward actors was that everyone is okay performing scenes like this. If you're not, you aren't a professional.

Travis (18:54)

This just sounds like working in China now.

Eric (18:55)

Yeah. I ended up refusing to fly and come home. Thankfully, I'd received a deposit and was able to refund it to them minus my cost of getting to the airport. Clearly it's the third experience that prompted me to actually write about this. And they said, here's the suggestions they gave for people being in these. Get a full script in advance. Be very clear ahead of time what you're not willing to do. Consider adding your limits requirements to your actor materials along with your headshots. Don't assume that industry norms elsewhere. Elsewhere will be known or acknowledged here. That's like a huge. Put that in bold. Set very clear boundaries with your time. Expect low quality food, very short rest times, very fast shooting and bad quality. No toilets at times.

Travis (19:32)

I was gonna say this just sounds like advice for anybody doing anything outside of sag.

Eric (19:36)

Yeah, yeah, even. I mean, even. And some of those stories.

Travis (19:39)

Yeah, probably also the same.

Eric (19:41)

You know what I'll say. I. I was in a documentary. It was on hbo. It was. Right. It charted in the top.

Travis (19:48)

Did it chart in the top 10

Eric (19:49)

between two people that show? No, but can I say this? I've actually been on set twice now for projects as talent. Just so you know. I was talent. They put me on there and they filmed me and they asked me questions and I was just there. A talent.

Travis (20:07)

Yeah. Regrettable for them.

Eric (20:08)

Put makeup on me, all this kind of stuff and given. And they needed to. Yeah, no, but I will. You know what I'll say. I've heard so many horror stories about like craft services sucking. Yeah, dude.

Travis (20:21)

The spread was fire. Or what the.

Eric (20:23)

Well, here's what I'll say. The first one I went to, they went and got me because I. There was a vending machine and I like, like, we'll get you something. You know, I was like, thanks. Yeah, dude. They didn't have. I was like, oh, it's just monster. I really like tuck my hair behind me. I really like Sugar Free Red Bull. I work best with that. They sent somebody in a van to go get me Sugar Free Red Bull. So nice.

Travis (20:46)

Nice.

Eric (20:46)

And then when I went back to do reshoots, the next time in my room, they had a bag and it had sugar free Red Bulls in it. That's crazy. You don't get that doing a Chinese micro drama.

Travis (20:56)

No. And that's professionalism. Right there.

Eric (20:59)

It is. And then the next one, I went

Travis (21:00)

to probably give you some off brand.

Eric (21:02)

The most. The most bomb. No, the most bomb Italian food. But there was no tables to eat it at, so I ate. I had to eat Italian on my lap, so I wasn't very happy with that. But that one's coming out soon, so I won't say anything negative about that. No, just kidding. That was great. It was great. But I'm just saying it makes me

Travis (21:19)

happy that the time that I was talent in a shoot, where were you?

Eric (21:23)

Oh, you were playing Jesus. You were given pizza on the cross.

Travis (21:27)

I was given pizza between scenes.

Eric (21:30)

They should have put it after I

Travis (21:31)

came down off the cross.

Eric (21:33)

I won't say the joker.

Sponsor Announcer 2 (21:34)

It was not.

Travis (21:35)

It was not. It was not great conditions for filming either. It was extremely cold.

Eric (21:40)

Yeah.

Travis (21:41)

And I was, you know, half naked, you know, and they've just squirted with fake blood and like water for like sweat beads and like, like literally like threw dirt on me and then had makeup, like off my face and stuff. I was freezing cold. Which.

Eric (21:59)

Which no one else was hungry.

Travis (22:00)

SAG was not a part of that production, believe it or not.

Eric (22:04)

Well, with your old self, if you're half naked, there's lots of sag.

Travis (22:10)

That's a good joke anyway. Well, anyway, for that joke, it doesn't make sense because I was 20 when I did that.

Eric (22:16)

It was hit you quick. Anyway. No, I just thought it was an interesting industry. I thought there were some interesting things about it.

Travis (22:23)

That is wildly interesting that people are

Eric (22:25)

paying that it's more than Paramount in Hulu is mind bottling.

Travis (22:30)

It really is. I can't even like put into words how crazy that is. To me, all the IP that Hulu and Paramount own and more people are subscribed to this slop.

Narrator/Reporter (22:41)

Then close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts

Travis (22:52)

in time for this class.

Narrator/Reporter (22:53)

I got them delivered free from 1, 800 contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

Eric (22:58)

And breathe.

Narrator/Reporter (22:59)

Oh, sorry.

Travis (23:00)

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw

Narrator/Reporter (23:01)

the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

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Travis (23:10)

1-800-contacts.

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Eric (23:40)

Experian.

Travis (23:42)

That seems so outlandish.

Eric (23:45)

Did you like my friend?

Travis (23:45)

But also a great commentary on culture as a whole.

Eric (23:48)

That's true.

Travis (23:50)

What are we going to do about that?

Eric (23:51)

Great opportunity for act, though.

Travis (23:52)

It's sort of like the. Like it. I. I go back and forth on this in a business context all the time because it's like, do you build the product for what you believe it should be, or do you build the product for what it actually is? And it's like, unfortunately, the people who build the product for how things are are the people who actually see success with it rather than the people who are trying to build the product ideal version of what you want things to be. I couldn't do it in this context. No. Like, that's. I just feel. I would not feel proud about, like, any of the stuff that I was doing.

Eric (24:24)

I'm the founder of Slopai.com that uses your personal data to target you with. Exactly.

Travis (24:31)

To see. Yeah. To, like, see how we can keep your attention with the most annoying garbage possible.

Eric (24:37)

Give that data to Peter Thiel and he's building literally custom DNA Target.

Travis (24:41)

That's their business model. Yeah, that's. That's wild.

Eric (24:44)

All right, well, go ahead and close this out because I want to keep this short.

Travis (24:48)

Well, if you're listening to this show, hopefully you are with us and you're bucking against the desire for more short form and more dopamine hits all the time. And if you're not, get on board no more. What was it. What was that app called?

Eric (25:02)

It does. Let's not call it a specific company.

Travis (25:04)

Yeah, yeah, let's. Let's not. Let's not give in to these short forms.

Eric (25:09)

Hey, guys, we're not doing short and fast here. We're doing long and boring. And we appreciate you being here with

Travis (25:14)

us and with that. Thank you for tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast.

Sponsor Announcer 2 (25:24)

Thanks for tuning in.

Travis (25:24)

Catch you next time.

Eric (25:25)

Peace.