CO-HOST | Make Money with Media IP, Streaming Rights & The Walking Dead

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode Title: CO-HOST | Make Money with Media IP, Streaming Rights & The Walking Dead
Host: Travis Chappell
Date: May 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell is joined in-studio by his co-host/producer (“Eric”) for a dynamic conversation on how media intellectual property (IP) and streaming rights drive major financial deals, using The Walking Dead as a prime example. The duo reflect on The Walking Dead’s cultural impact, discuss the business of licensing evergreen media IP in the evolving streaming landscape, and consider the lessons for individual creators and entrepreneurs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Walking Dead Nostalgia & AMC’s Rise (00:50–05:28)

• Personal Memories: The hosts share how The Walking Dead became a cultural event, reminiscing about watching episodes with friends on giant TVs and comparing TV technology “then vs. now.”
• AMC’s Peak Era: Discussion of AMC’s golden years with Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and The Walking Dead, lauding the quality of the early seasons.
• Frank Darabont’s Departure: Noted as pivotal to the show’s creative “fall off.”
  • "The fall off was steep once Frank Darabont left."
    — Eric, 02:12

2. The Current State of The Walking Dead & Streaming Rights (05:28–08:52)

• Spinoffs and Legacy: Despite the main show ending (2022), two spinoffs still run.
• Upcoming Rights Deal: AMC is in talks on a major new rights deal for The Walking Dead, with streaming giants like Netflix in the mix.
  • "We're really excited about inbound discussion for licensing rights for The Walking Dead."
    — Quoting AMC CEO Kristen Dolan, 05:27
• Value of Iconic Series: Even as IP valuations have come down since the “streaming gold rush,” this franchise is expected to generate hundreds of millions.

3. The Business of IP & Licensing Strategies (08:52–15:59)

• AMC’s Financial Landscape:

  • Revenue has slipped from $2.5B (2015) to $542M, reflecting the changing TV/streaming market.
  • "So it’s come down. It is trouble. It is doing bad."
    — Eric, 09:23

• IP Licensing Choices:

  • Debate over exclusivity on company-owned platforms vs. licensing out to streaming giants for broader exposure (Netflix, Amazon, Max).
  • The risks and rewards of “own vs. lease” strategies for iconic IP.
  • "I think it really just depends on what's your core mission as the company. Are you an IP company or a tech company?"
    — Travis, 15:00

4. The Streaming Effect: Suits as a Case Study (16:08–17:21)

• Suits' Renaissance: Explored how Suits exploded in popularity after arriving on Netflix, leading to new spinoffs and international remakes.
  • "That show blew up when it hit Netflix."
    — Eric, 15:59
  • "Suits... fell into relative obscurity… then all of a sudden it showed up on Netflix and it was more popular [than ever]."
    — Travis, 16:02

5. Types of TV IP: Binge Factor vs. Appointment Viewing (17:44–19:53)

• Sitcom Reruns vs. Serialized Drama: The hosts argue that sitcoms (The Office, Parks & Rec) have higher long-term streaming value than serialized stories (The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad) due to rewatchability and background “ease.”

  • "You’re not just like throwing on The Walking Dead in the background."
    — Travis, 18:31

• Star Trek and Episodic TV: Praises episodic shows for their “drop-in-anytime” quality.

6. The Unpredictability of Hit IP (20:06–21:16)

• No Formula for Hits: Even with major investment, predicting which show will enter the cultural zeitgeist is impossible.

  • "You have no control over a show like that being a hit show… Even…multimillion dollar budgets and huge name actors… sometimes [it] just doesn't get accepted."
    — Travis, 20:06

• Luck & Opportunity: Citing Ian Fleming’s Moonraker, they reflect on the role of “luck and remarkable circumstances” in financial success.

  • "To become very rich, you have to be helped by a combination of remarkable circumstances and an unbroken run of luck."
    — Eric (quoting Moonraker), 21:16

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "How do you have a show that's that good and that popular…and then you're like, 'We don't need [Frank Darabont] anymore.'"
  — Eric, 02:12
• “It was literally like an event... we would go to church and then…watch The Walking Dead.”
  — Eric, 04:01
• “Netflix has helped lift ratings for a number of the company's original series as they stream seasons in the lead up to new episodes returning to the air.”
  — Eric, quoting industry analysis, 07:21

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50 — Opening banter and Walking Dead nostalgia
• 02:12 — Departure of Frank Darabont and creative changes
• 04:52 — AMC’s “Big 3” era (Mad Men, BB, Walking Dead)
• 05:28–05:54 — Walking Dead rights negotiations and streaming talk
• 09:16–09:23 — AMC revenue drop, then vs. now
• 15:00–15:59 — Strategic thinking: keep IP exclusive or license out?
• 16:08–16:32 — The “Suits” Netflix effect
• 18:31–18:48 — Binge factor: sitcoms vs. dramas
• 20:06–21:16 — The elusive formula for a hit show/IP

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Takeaways & Reflections

• IP as an Asset Class: The real financial value for media companies is in durable, beloved IP that can be “re-animated” for new generations via streaming or spinoffs.
• The Attention Economy: For IP owners, it's sometimes better to sacrifice exclusivity for mass exposure and cultural relevance.
• Creativity & Uncertainty: Even with the best planning, some of the biggest cultural hits have a huge element of unpredictability and luck.
• Consumer Habits Change IP Value: As binge-watching and background viewing shape what becomes “evergreen,” not all shows age equally in streaming culture.

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In the hosts’ engaging, humorous style, this episode is as much about lessons for creators and entrepreneurs as it is for TV execs seeking the next big payday from their aging-but-memorable franchises.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

God, I feel absolutely dead today. You could say I'm the Walking Dead.

[A]

Could you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wait, why do you feel dead?

[B]

Because I was in an extreme calorie deficit yesterday and.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

I'm tired today. But really, I say that because today I want to talk to you about the Walking Dead. Okay, what's your friends that used to have a Walking Dead podcast, You know,

[A]

the name of the show, I believe, was Walker Stalkers, but I'm blanking on their names. Sorry, guys. But yeah, they had the Walker Stalker podcast and the Walker Stalker Con, which was like, they had like 30 or 40,000 people attend this convention for the Walking Dead, all from a podcast they started. There was like a fan podcast. Unfortunately, that world has now become cannibalized by the actual producers of the shows, which is a bummer to see, like,

[B]

Talking Dead instead and all that stuff. Yeah, well, you might want to get them on the horn because there's some big news brewing about the Walking Dead right now.

[A]

Is there really?

[B]

The Walking Dead writes, I've heard any

[A]

news on the Walking Dead in, like, eight years.

[B]

The first two seasons of the Walking Dead are some of the best seasons.

[A]

Oh, they're great.

[B]

Did you watch them? Yeah. So good.

[A]

I think I stopped somewhere around season four, like end of season three.

[B]

The fall off was steep once Frank Darabont left. Yeah, but how do you have a show that's that good and that popular? And you have the director of Shawshank Redemption, which is one of the best movies ever made, and then you're like, we don't need him anymore.

[A]

They got rid of him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, that whole story is Crazy. We could do a whole episode on that.

[A]

Clearly did not work out super well.

[B]

I mean, it still maintained a pretty big audience, but, like, I just remember.

[A]

Not enough to continue getting produced anymore.

[B]

When the first season came out, it was. When did the first season come out? The walking clutch.

[A]

Like 2010. 2011.

[B]

First season. Let's see. Because I was in high school. 2010. Yeah. And I remember my friend what I

[A]

said, that was such a good guess.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because I said 2010. 2011.

[B]

Oh, no. I was in high school and my friend, I would go to his house because they had like a 90 inch TV.

[A]

No, they didn't.

[B]

Yeah, they did.

[A]

Not back then.

[B]

Yeah, they did.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes, they did.

[A]

90 inch TVs were not around back then.

[B]

Oh, my God. Why do you have to fact check on this 90 inch?

[A]

They weren't.

[B]

I swear to God.

[A]

They may have been invented, but like the. The biggest TVs that you could get in Best Buy at that time. And I remember this because we got a big TV when we first got married. And it was a big deal.

[B]

It was close. I swear to God. It was like. It was close to.

[A]

Anyway, it was a big tv.

[B]

It was huge.

[A]

But everything seemed huge back then because the TVs that we grew up with was like the biggest one you could get was 50 inches.

[B]

It was like. It was like. I swear to God, it was like. It was very close. Like, you would watch TV and your eyes would go across the street.

[A]

I bet you it was like 65 inches.

[B]

Oh, my God, dude, you're. You're so annoyed. You're doing what I do and you're nitpicking.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm right.

[B]

Anyway, he had a huge tv and it was literally like. It was literally like an event. Like, we would go to church and then Wild Sequence of Go to Church and that. And then I would go back to his house and we would watch the Walking Dead.

[A]

Your parents know you're watching that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I had some flexibility with that.

[A]

So not with horror.

[B]

As long as it wasn't like tons of cursing or nudity.

[A]

So gore I could watch.

[B]

Gore was fine.

[A]

I see.

[B]

I mean, look at the eyeball.

[A]

Fucked up now.

[B]

Just. I'm messed up now. Now I. Now I welcome all things. I just, you know, expanded my. My taste buds a little bit. You know, give me the profanity and the gore. Anyway, so I would go watch it. It was like a big event. And I remember for a while AMC had like, Mad Men, Breaking Bad and the Walking Dead. And it was like just AMC was just crushing it.

[A]

They were crushing.

[B]

So anyway, Walking Dead obviously wrapped its main show. There's two spinoff shows going right now that I don't watch.

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

But right now, AMC is nearing a deal for the next round of rights to the Walking Dead. The company looking to keep a share of the action and several large. And they have several large players in pursuit of buying the actual show. So the flagship iteration, the franchise, a cornerstone for the company, had its finale in 2022. It feels like it was recent, but it's crazy that, like, so wait, 2010. So the show is.

[A]

That's a long.

[B]

That's 16 years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God, we're sold. That is so crazy when you think of a show that you're like, I remember when that came out. I was so hyped 16 years ago with the company. It remains popular on streaming and spawned multiple spinoffs. The CEO of amc, Kristen Dolan, told Wall street analysts during a first quarter earnings call, we're really excited about inbound discussion for licensing rights for the Walking Dead. And.

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[B]

So, yeah, they're looking to so it,

[A]

but it's on streaming services right now.

[B]

Yes, I believe it's on.

[A]

So what's the license?

[B]

Walking, I believe. Well, I think they're coming up on where they have to redo their deals. Netflix was their home. For a while. That was a big deal like Breaking Bad was. Might still be Walking Dead. And then they said there's a lot of different options on the table. They said we may chunk it up. May all go to one partner, domestic and international. We've got to look at many ways to skin this cat. She said, let's not talk about skinning cats in 2026. I'm sick of the animal cruelty coming from you. And then this is a Deadline article. It says while valuations for household name series IP have come down to earth a bit since the frenzy around Friends south park in the office during the streaming explosion several years ago. The Walking Dead writes will surely fetch several hundred million dollars. Estimated figures were not part of the Friday discuss the earnings call. Along with streaming, the show's linear ratings held up well even as cord cutting eroded the overall footprint of cable tv. Names of bidders were also not named. But Netflix has had a significant relationship with amc. One analyst noticed noted, that was me. I noted that. I love that they need an analyst to say like hey, it's been on Netflix for like 10 years. I think they have a whole job. The streaming giant has helped lift ratings for a number of the company's original series as they stream seasons in the lead up to new episodes returning to the air. It also put Mad Men back into the zeitgeist a decade after its series finale. AMC has also experimented with a major activation on HBO Max and continues to lean into its channel's relationships with Amazon, Roku and other streaming providers. So here's the. Here's this last little piece here. Amc I want to know what AMC was in its heyday, but AMC's revenue has slipped 2% to just 542 million measly. Isn't that really sad?

[A]

Half a billion.

[B]

And subscribers have dipped 3%.

[A]

Subscribers to what?

[B]

Subscribers to the AMC channels like AMC's Little Channels on like Amazon. Like you know how you can buy like the add on packages. What was I wonder what AMC was at in 2011. AMC earnings 2000 because like that was like peak like Breaking Bad. Mm. What do you think? Oh, it's less.

[A]

I was gonna say my gut is that it's less just because it was 16 years ago.

[B]

Yeah, I forgot that's so long ago.

[A]

Gee. But them comparatively to other like to their competitors probably was much higher at

[B]

that point in 2015. Our AMC channel. I'm looking just doing what. What the heck. Total revenue in 2015 was 2.5 billion.

[A]

Wow. So it's come down.

[B]

It is trouble. It is doing bad. But anyway, so Walking Dead getting ready to license itself out. I thought there's an interesting conversation that had to be had about IP IP and the value of that. Even though it is like 16. I didn't realize it was 16 years old and it makes me feel very

[A]

upset but makes you feel real millennial.

[B]

But yeah, it's interesting. I mean where it could go. I mean where do you want to see it go? You want to watch Walking Dead together and do a walking Dead podcast 16 years later?

[A]

I don't I don't. Just because, like, I don't have a. I like watching shows where. Where you either you don't know what's going to happen or you know that it's good the whole time. And that's why. That's why I haven't brought myself to do, like, a Game of Thrones watch through again, because I know that it ends terribly and it's more difficult for me to get into the story when I know that's terrible.

[B]

And I heard Game of Thrones are the best finale of any show.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

To me, it's up there with Lost, you know, where it's like, the loss. Loss was worse. I think, frankly.

[B]

I love Lost.

[A]

You like the.

[B]

And I like the finale. I don't like the last, like, three seasons, but I like how they wrapped it up.

[A]

I don't like, like, half the show.

[B]

No, like, I like.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I like. I wish that they would have got sooner to the finale, but I liked the idea that it was this kind of purgatory type. Spoiler alert for Lost.

[A]

Yeah. They were dead the whole time or something. They left it up to interpretation because

[B]

I think they were dead.

[A]

Some people think that they weren't. Some people think that they were. But also, I just hate when they don't wrap core parts of the story, like, the numbers thing, like, where they never gave. But it does matter.

[B]

See, you're so funny because I always say you're similar to Tara, her personality, but, like, she's very much. She wants everything wrapped. Like, I love ambiguity in movies. Okay.

[A]

But some.

[B]

So I love ambiguity. Like, I like movies where even, like, there's a killer the whole time. You don't even know who it is. I am fine with any of that as long as the vibes are immaculate throughout the movie itself. And I can get into it. She's like the type. Like, I love slasher movies. And we'll watch a slasher movie and, like, the movie will end with, like, the ambulance leaving the campground.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it'll fade to the credits and she'll go like. Like, what happens?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, what do you want? You want to show them get to the hospital? You want to see them check in. You want to see them be like, oh, your arm is broken in three places. You want to see him put on a cast to go to support? Like, what do you want? How much closure do you need?

[A]

I need a good amount of closure.

[B]

That's wrong.

[A]

I don't need closure on everything. Like, I'm okay with endings that aren't perfect, but when it's like, again, when it's like a core premise of the show to run with this thing and it doesn't give you the satisfaction. That was my big problem with Game of Thrones is like the crazy stuff that happens throughout the entire series. It's like, I can deal with that. I can deal with the Red Wedding. I can deal with all just like I have.

[B]

The Red Wedding's classic.

[A]

It is classic.

[B]

I don't know anything about it.

[A]

I just, I want to see at the end that there's retribution for all the terrible things that they made you endure as a fan of the show. And they're just, they just don't give you any sort of sense, any sense of satisfaction at all. And it's like the main character that they, that they built up as being like the good, you know, version of a leader ends up being horrible.

[B]

And doesn't that sound like real life, Travis?

[A]

No, there's good people in real life.

[B]

No, that's where you're wrong.

[A]

And sometimes it works out for them. In fact, a lot of times it works out for them. And yeah, they, yeah.

[B]

Anyway, so, okay, let me ask you this though.

[A]

All that to say I do not want to do a Walking Dead watch through because I would watch the first three seasons.

[B]

That's so good.

[A]

Quit after the third season.

[B]

That's fine. But I do like Walking Dead that the first season can stand alone as a miniseries because it does end with enough ambiguity where it's like they get out of the CDC and they hit the road and you can just imagine what happens next.

[A]

That's why I like the evolution to like limited series that like. Because then it basically just feels like a long ass movie. Yeah, it's like do like an eight episode series. It's sort of just like, okay, well this is basically a six and a half hour movie. It gives a little bit more time for character development, gives a little bit more time for the story to come to life. Makes you feel more invested in the characters. But they don't make you wait four years until the next season comes out.

[B]

Right. So let me throw this question to you. Thinking about this scenario, obviously you've never had to handle a property as big as the Walking Dead and you've never ran a company as big as amc. Give it a couple years, maybe you'll catch up. But when it comes to this, obviously this is a situation where they're holding some of their. They're still going to get their cut of these deals. Right. But you're also taking a property that you own that's like one of your big breadwinners for you. You're giving some of that ownership over to a Netflix or a Prime or a Max for added exposure. What would be your thought processes as far as choosing to retain all ownership just to keep it for yourself, versus, like, I'm gonna sacrifice some ownership for the chance of more eyeballs. How do you navigate that game? Or how do you think they're sitting in these rooms talking about? Cause that to me is like, I can never wrap my mind around is like, how much is it worth to not try to push this on our own streaming service and be exclusive versus going like, Netflix has this and everyone goes, the Netflix show, the Walking Dead.

[A]

Yeah. I think it really just depends on what's your core mission as the company. Like, are you an IP company or are you a tech company? Because I think people can get distracted really quickly. And obviously we've seen that not all streaming services have done really well, even though they do have a lot of ip.

[B]

Well, it's like we did that story a couple months ago with. Was it SportsCenter that was like, we're going to build a betting app ourselves and then it like, bombed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so they're like, we'll just partner with a betting app.

[A]

Yeah. We'll just go back to DraftKings. Yeah. And let them do what they do and we'll just collect a huge paycheck. So, yeah, my gut feels more like if you have ip, then the currency is attention, and so theoretically you should follow the attention. And all the attention right now is on the streaming services. So I think it's a really strong play. My thought in those boardrooms would be like, how do we fully take advantage of the windfall of additional traffic that we are about to receive? Potentially? I think Suits did a pretty good job with this.

[B]

That show blew up when it hit Netflix.

[A]

Yeah. It fell into relative obscurity for quite some time. And then all of a sudden it showed up on Netflix and it was like, more popular.

[B]

I thought they rebooted it because I saw everybody posting stuff from Suits.

[A]

I think they did reboot.

[B]

Oh, did they?

[A]

I think they did some sort of a spinoff or something off the back end of that. I think Netflix did it, though. So I don't know if they acquired, like, all the ip, but they clearly licensed the. If they didn't acquire it, they licensed the ability. So I'm pretty sure they did do a spinoff interesting Suits, where they had some of the main cast from Suits in the first episode or two.

[B]

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[A]

of like hand it off and maybe even a couple recurring guests, but. So they did a really good job with that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, 2019. And then they were doing one called Suits LA.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Just coming out. Yeah. They did nine part or ten episode miniseries and then they're doing an upcoming one and. And there's remakes.

[A]

Netflix. Right.

[B]

In South Korea, Japan and the Arab world. Do they call it the Arab world? I've never heard that. We'll release this to the. That sounds like saying like a United States. Exactly.

[A]

Different universe.

[B]

Take it to the Arab world, trade them for spices. You know, it's like, no, that's. They use money. He's like, no.

[A]

Yeah, I like the play. I like the play.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know there's a play too.

[A]

Okay. Because you have to stay. Not necessarily stay in your lane. Like, you're not allowed to do anything else. But I think companies sometimes, sometimes get a little too greedy from that perspective and they try to do things that are completely outside of their scope and then they get killed in that and they come back and they're not like those types of shows. To me, it works for a company like Peacock and NBC because there's no limit to how many times you can watch the Office or like Parks and Rec or, you know, Brooklyn Nine Nine or whatever. You can just throw it on in the background and just constantly. You can watch through them accidentally three times in a year. Whereas like the Walking Dead, you're not just like throwing on in the background.

[B]

No, you're throwing on, like Ash versus Evil Dead. You're throwing on Tales from the Crypt, you know.

[A]

And same with Breaking Bad, you know, Like, I don't know if they have as much of a bingeability factor as some of these, like, sitcoms and stuff do.

[B]

Well, where it's not a continuous story. You can just be like, here's the characters. I know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Here's the situation.

[A]

Funny situation.

[B]

Like Ash Force Evil Dead, like a long running Running story or Big Ash

[A]

versus Evil Dead Guy.

[B]

That's why I love. No, I was gonna say that's why I love Star Trek is. Cause like Star Trek does have some overarching stories, but like pretty much every week it's like Smallville. Early on. It's like we have our monster of the week or our situation. Here's the characters. There might be some little chance like, oh, someone's dating throughout the. Or something. But like you could put on any episode. Yeah, you could. Thanks for pointing it out. You could. Probably totally indecipherable in the audio and you just pointed it out.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

You could.

[A]

I think it would have been weird if I didn't address it.

[B]

Lost air mid conversation. Whatever. You know the characters and you're there to see them solve a problem. It's like the Office, you know, like, yeah, sure, there's all the side stuff with Jim and Pam, but it's like Jim's going to pick on Dwight, Michael's going to do something silly. You know, Hacker is going to make your parents get the episode. Like, you know, there's always those go to characters, you know, anyway, whatever. Yeah, but I didn't want to talk

[A]

anymore, but IP is a crazy world.

[B]

You pee. Say it again. I think it'd be word if I didn't point it out. You pee, pee and poo poo. Travis, different situation. Oh no, go ahead.

[A]

It is. It is a crazy world though. Like. Yeah, because. Because there's. You have no control over a show like that being a hit show. You know, I'm saying like that that's what's wild to me. And that is sort of what I remind people about. Even when we help them start podcasts and stuff. It's like, yes, you need to have a strategy going into it. Yes, you have a plan going into it. But having a plan does not mean it's going to be successful because there's these massive production companies that have multimillion dollar budgets and huge name actors that put stuff out there all the time that just doesn't work. It just doesn't get accepted into the cultural zeitgeist. And does it ever explode? Even though it seemed like something like Space Force on Netflix, which is a sitcom style lead character of Steve Carell, who's obviously great in that type of role, but just doesn't hit. It doesn't take off. So you gotta go back to the drawing board. But some of these ones where they have the hit, it's like, man, well, people still are watching Cheers reruns or Seinfeld rerun. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes, we are.

[A]

You can't just, like, decide that something's going to end up like that.

[B]

Well, it's like I was reading in the Bond book Moonraker this morning and it said some. Somebody said that to become very rich, you have to be held by a combination of remarkable circumstances and an unbroken run of luck. How about that? How about that? That is true, right? Well, I don't. I feel offended and beaten down, so I'd like to close the episode out.

[A]

Classic Eric. Anyway, that's it for this episode of the show. Remember, money only solves your money problems. It's easier to solve the rest of your problems. Money in the bank. Let us know if you're going to watch Walking Dead reruns and maybe Eric will join you. That's it for this episode of the show. We'll catch you guys next time. Peace.

[B]

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